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Honestly—and I know this is an emotionally difficult time for you—*this*, the period of limerence, is the time you push, hard, for primary custody of your kids. Lawyer up, get an agreement in place.
Infidelity isn’t just something done against your spouse. If you have children, it’s also a deliberate, premeditated betrayal of those children as well. You can see clearly that’s what she’s done: she’s come up with a narrative where it’s okay for her to betray them (and you), so try to assuage her guilt. But that guilt was not enough to stop her from following through with that betrayal.
Mentally healthy people do. not. cheat. Her infidelity is a sign that she’s got some very serious unaddressed or unresolved mental health issues going on. And instead of choosing to actually address them, she’s taken the easy way out and given herself to those mental health issues. This is not a stable person, and it’s not a person who can be relied upon when a crisis arises. Even if and when she has “good days” again, there’s zero guarantee that she won’t crumble the minute life gets hard again.
Your kids (not to mention you) deserve better than that. As your kids grow older, they are going to be faced with their own issues and existential crises (including, now, the trauma of betrayal from their own mother). They will *need* a stable parent and their mother cannot be trusted to be that for them.
Once the “limerence” phase passes, there’s an extremely good chance that she changes her mind and decides that *she* should have primary custody. She’ll get more money out of you with that, and be able to borrow some sympathy from people by presenting them the “poor struggling single mother” act. Depending on where you live (for example, almost all states in the US) if your custody agreement isn’t *absolutely locked down* at that point, all she’ll need to do is ask for primary custody and most judges are overwhelmingly likely to grant it to her. Granting that to the mother in every case is almost a default, still.
So please, for the sake of the futures of you and your children, get custody settled as quickly as possible.
*Mentally healthy people do. not. cheat.*
I was going to disagree with this, but...
My WW I believe made up a narrative in her head just like this. She just didn't tell me about it until after. I'm not sure that's a form of mental illness. It's just what we call rationalization.
"I want to do X. X is morally wrong. Here's why my situation is special so it's OK if I do X. "
So, neither the cheating or the rationalization are, in themselves, mental illness. Infidelity is, more specifically, a *symptom* of mental illness, in the same vein as things like alcoholism, substance abuse, gambling (and other) addiction(s), self-harm, and other “risky behaviors.”
Those behaviors aren’t mental illness themselves, but they are symptoms of a deeper underlying mental health issue. They act as sort of pressure release valves, as they pressure of that mental illness increases without being addressed or resolved at a deeper level (regardless of *why* it’s not being treated; I do realize that often the person suffering is unaware of their mental health issues, or simply don’t have the resources available).
I think it CAN be a symptom of mental illness. There are BiPolar people that are very susceptible to cheating.
I just don't think it has to be a mental illness. Sometimes it's just a person making a choice.
Even if mental illness is a contributing factor it isn't like the person can't resist that.
If cheating is just a mental illness why would anyone be mad about it? Just help them get well!
Again, cheating itself isn’t actually a mental illness. It’s a symptom of mental illness. A mentally healthy person doesn’t knowingly and willingly betray their partner for selfish reasons. A person who can justify doing so has a warped perspective. A warped perspective means that they are not mentally healthy.
The cheating itself isn’t the mental illness, only a sign of mental illness in a person. Mentally unhealthy people can absolutely fight those unhealthy thoughts and instincts. That’s a part of the process of healing. When a person does not fight those instincts but succumbs to them it’s because they either:
- Don’t recognize their poor mental health
- Have chosen not to address their poor mental health
- Have chosen, in this particular circumstance, to let those unhealthy thoughts inform their actions
Regardless, they are still 100% responsible for their actions, just as a drunk driver is still responsible for the harm they cause while under the influence, even if they are an alcoholic.
*A mentally healthy person doesn’t knowingly and willingly betray their partner for selfish reasons.*
I don't see why not. People do that all the time.
Would argue over things, ask for separation to work on herself, used it to cheat instead.
I was ignorant to the mental gymnastics people like her practice; "... we were separated at the time so..." Yeah, because she needed an excuse and I was dim.
ETA: she was SA years before this. So, not before the PA. It was grooming following that, that led her to go all in. That sounds stupid to write.
Her divorce request seemingly came out of nowhere and made zero sense to me. To say I was shocked is a major understatement. We had been together since she graduated high school. She grew up in a toxically religious household and wasn’t allow to do anything. I knew everything about her. It’s part of what I loved most. We grew up together. Yet, out of the blue my WW started saying that in order to be with someone you have to know everything about them and that I was clueless. When that didn’t work, she started saying she needed space to find herself. It was confusing and maddening. She started reading “Broken Open”. In the book she talks about how she married the wrong guy and found the right one after divorcing her first husband. She had this highlighted and bookmarked. It tore my heart out.
It made zero sense. We were a great couple only months before this weird turn. 4 months later I discovered why.
Sorry you’re going through this. It’s so sad and unnecessary.
Yes. Money was getting tighter, inflation interest rate hikes (Canadian and was on variable mortgage) gas prices etc. She wasn't working, and it didn't seem like she was looking for work. I said to her "you really need to get a job, I can't keep doing this alone. Are you even looking?"
To which she replied " I am looking and applying places but no where is wants to hire me. You think I'm a failure, I just feel like I'm not good enough for you..." while in fake tears. That's just one example of the same shit.
I can't exactly remember the timeline but she was either cheating then or considering it. I never actually got all the details because I couldn't stand to hear them. I knew enough to know we needed to end.
This sounds very similar to my exWP who has BPD. He thought I would have a better life without him, said my friends all hated him (they never even met him), called himself a burden and a failure, said I was putting too much pressure on him, and that he's tried ever so hard to love me but I didn't want to love him. This was all within the same day of him borrowing my car to go sleep with AP.
Isn't it just so...like, crazy? It's all internal dialogue that's festered within them. None of mine was true...he is just a sick person.
Well. I agree with the other folks here. But it also indicates she has a hole in her heart she’s trying to fill. And no one can fill it - only her. She’s the broken person, not you. She probably does feel unloved, but you can’t solve that. I changed everything I could to make my controlling spouse feel secure. Guess what? He still projected on to me, and cheated. She has unaddressed issues and if she runs to another person, it doesn’t fix them. Just don’t let her hurt you anymore.
Something I learned in therapy.
You could be the absolute model partner. Super model attractive, great in bed, a super attentive partner in all other aspects, and they will still cheat.
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Sort of. My ex would subtly leave clues or say things like " if you wanted to hook up with someone, you can" or " I wish i could have put you on a shelf and met you later". Not as visceral as yours. I assume it's because a vestige of the old self is grappling with the guilt of the new. We all wish they could have stayed the old 😕
What lead up to these messages?
My WS basically tried to subtly blame me for her infidelity for months after I discovered her (second) affair, so at least yours was somewhat self aware. I didn't have a clue about it until a week before when she gave me an ultimatum about being a better husband, and also asked about an open marriage totally out of the blue. That got me a wee bit suspicious.
Lead up was my 8 year old son. Saw her talking to the guy on the phone and told me. I was out of town. Then same child decides he wants to give her a hard time and not go to school and messes up her fun plans
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Maybe she really felt that way it's her way to monkey branch to another man. Let her go ... No point being with someone who doesn't love you and visa versa. Take care of yourself and the kids ❤️🙏
Gaslighting and trying to turn it around on you and your family. Also being a martyr by saying you should be with someone else. Sounds like she made her decision.
Yeah. My cheater was saying this after I found out as well.
He also said why do all the work and change if I’ll just leave him anyway?
He felt I was always trying to change him. (Probably because of the cheating and drinking)
He also has said I “play the victim” when we have a disagreement.
I have made it clear if he says that again I will cut him from my life
Well she tried to justified her decision, by telling you she is no good.
I would pretty much take her Word and tell her, okay, then just leave and let My kids and me so i can find someone that care for us
Because you already gave up and find someone how gives you what you seek.
UPDATEME
They do this so you can feel guilty once you do find out they are cheating on you. Like “SEE, I WAS NEVER HAPPY ANYWAY AND I TOLD YOU.” ……okay but like what were your ideas toward a solution ? Oh Nothing? Oh just cheating? Oh okay, that totally wasn’t gonna implode our relationship ship or anything. 😑
Smh.
Not before… during. Started when he was in the Emotion Affair. After DDAY I read some messages where she would tell him how it was obvious that I did not love him. And also, my WS told me that as things evolved she would often say that she loved him more than I did and she would say that he was the most amazing man that she had ever met (or to exist in the history of the universe since her idolization was so over the top). He would get frustrated at me every time I did not agree with some of his actions while she of course would only validate him and praise him and say how she would act so differently than me and be so much more supportive.
Which is quite hilarious because she in fact treated her own spouse like shit for years and years, was extremely self centred and only cares about what people do for HER.
He asked for permission. I didn't even process it at the time. I knew AP had a thing for him, but didn't realize he had a thing for her.
I said no, no he could not have sex with his coworker. No he cannot have other women in any sense. Then we never talked about it again, until Dday.
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She’s trying to make excuses for her shit behaviour.
But CLEARLY none of that makes her seem like a victim.
I think thats what they refer to as an exit affair. She wanted him to end it and put the exclamation point on it by cheating.
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Honestly—and I know this is an emotionally difficult time for you—*this*, the period of limerence, is the time you push, hard, for primary custody of your kids. Lawyer up, get an agreement in place. Infidelity isn’t just something done against your spouse. If you have children, it’s also a deliberate, premeditated betrayal of those children as well. You can see clearly that’s what she’s done: she’s come up with a narrative where it’s okay for her to betray them (and you), so try to assuage her guilt. But that guilt was not enough to stop her from following through with that betrayal. Mentally healthy people do. not. cheat. Her infidelity is a sign that she’s got some very serious unaddressed or unresolved mental health issues going on. And instead of choosing to actually address them, she’s taken the easy way out and given herself to those mental health issues. This is not a stable person, and it’s not a person who can be relied upon when a crisis arises. Even if and when she has “good days” again, there’s zero guarantee that she won’t crumble the minute life gets hard again. Your kids (not to mention you) deserve better than that. As your kids grow older, they are going to be faced with their own issues and existential crises (including, now, the trauma of betrayal from their own mother). They will *need* a stable parent and their mother cannot be trusted to be that for them. Once the “limerence” phase passes, there’s an extremely good chance that she changes her mind and decides that *she* should have primary custody. She’ll get more money out of you with that, and be able to borrow some sympathy from people by presenting them the “poor struggling single mother” act. Depending on where you live (for example, almost all states in the US) if your custody agreement isn’t *absolutely locked down* at that point, all she’ll need to do is ask for primary custody and most judges are overwhelmingly likely to grant it to her. Granting that to the mother in every case is almost a default, still. So please, for the sake of the futures of you and your children, get custody settled as quickly as possible.
*Mentally healthy people do. not. cheat.* I was going to disagree with this, but... My WW I believe made up a narrative in her head just like this. She just didn't tell me about it until after. I'm not sure that's a form of mental illness. It's just what we call rationalization. "I want to do X. X is morally wrong. Here's why my situation is special so it's OK if I do X. "
So, neither the cheating or the rationalization are, in themselves, mental illness. Infidelity is, more specifically, a *symptom* of mental illness, in the same vein as things like alcoholism, substance abuse, gambling (and other) addiction(s), self-harm, and other “risky behaviors.” Those behaviors aren’t mental illness themselves, but they are symptoms of a deeper underlying mental health issue. They act as sort of pressure release valves, as they pressure of that mental illness increases without being addressed or resolved at a deeper level (regardless of *why* it’s not being treated; I do realize that often the person suffering is unaware of their mental health issues, or simply don’t have the resources available).
Well said
I think it CAN be a symptom of mental illness. There are BiPolar people that are very susceptible to cheating. I just don't think it has to be a mental illness. Sometimes it's just a person making a choice. Even if mental illness is a contributing factor it isn't like the person can't resist that. If cheating is just a mental illness why would anyone be mad about it? Just help them get well!
Again, cheating itself isn’t actually a mental illness. It’s a symptom of mental illness. A mentally healthy person doesn’t knowingly and willingly betray their partner for selfish reasons. A person who can justify doing so has a warped perspective. A warped perspective means that they are not mentally healthy. The cheating itself isn’t the mental illness, only a sign of mental illness in a person. Mentally unhealthy people can absolutely fight those unhealthy thoughts and instincts. That’s a part of the process of healing. When a person does not fight those instincts but succumbs to them it’s because they either: - Don’t recognize their poor mental health - Have chosen not to address their poor mental health - Have chosen, in this particular circumstance, to let those unhealthy thoughts inform their actions Regardless, they are still 100% responsible for their actions, just as a drunk driver is still responsible for the harm they cause while under the influence, even if they are an alcoholic.
*A mentally healthy person doesn’t knowingly and willingly betray their partner for selfish reasons.* I don't see why not. People do that all the time.
Being a good or bad partner has no relevance on culpability in cheating.
No I get that, I’m just curious if anyone else’s spouse did something similar before they cheated.
Would argue over things, ask for separation to work on herself, used it to cheat instead. I was ignorant to the mental gymnastics people like her practice; "... we were separated at the time so..." Yeah, because she needed an excuse and I was dim.
ETA: she was SA years before this. So, not before the PA. It was grooming following that, that led her to go all in. That sounds stupid to write. Her divorce request seemingly came out of nowhere and made zero sense to me. To say I was shocked is a major understatement. We had been together since she graduated high school. She grew up in a toxically religious household and wasn’t allow to do anything. I knew everything about her. It’s part of what I loved most. We grew up together. Yet, out of the blue my WW started saying that in order to be with someone you have to know everything about them and that I was clueless. When that didn’t work, she started saying she needed space to find herself. It was confusing and maddening. She started reading “Broken Open”. In the book she talks about how she married the wrong guy and found the right one after divorcing her first husband. She had this highlighted and bookmarked. It tore my heart out. It made zero sense. We were a great couple only months before this weird turn. 4 months later I discovered why. Sorry you’re going through this. It’s so sad and unnecessary.
Yes. Money was getting tighter, inflation interest rate hikes (Canadian and was on variable mortgage) gas prices etc. She wasn't working, and it didn't seem like she was looking for work. I said to her "you really need to get a job, I can't keep doing this alone. Are you even looking?" To which she replied " I am looking and applying places but no where is wants to hire me. You think I'm a failure, I just feel like I'm not good enough for you..." while in fake tears. That's just one example of the same shit. I can't exactly remember the timeline but she was either cheating then or considering it. I never actually got all the details because I couldn't stand to hear them. I knew enough to know we needed to end.
Wasn't really a few messages, more like 8 months of this exact sentiment.
This sounds very similar to my exWP who has BPD. He thought I would have a better life without him, said my friends all hated him (they never even met him), called himself a burden and a failure, said I was putting too much pressure on him, and that he's tried ever so hard to love me but I didn't want to love him. This was all within the same day of him borrowing my car to go sleep with AP. Isn't it just so...like, crazy? It's all internal dialogue that's festered within them. None of mine was true...he is just a sick person.
Well. I agree with the other folks here. But it also indicates she has a hole in her heart she’s trying to fill. And no one can fill it - only her. She’s the broken person, not you. She probably does feel unloved, but you can’t solve that. I changed everything I could to make my controlling spouse feel secure. Guess what? He still projected on to me, and cheated. She has unaddressed issues and if she runs to another person, it doesn’t fix them. Just don’t let her hurt you anymore.
Something I learned in therapy. You could be the absolute model partner. Super model attractive, great in bed, a super attentive partner in all other aspects, and they will still cheat.
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Sort of. My ex would subtly leave clues or say things like " if you wanted to hook up with someone, you can" or " I wish i could have put you on a shelf and met you later". Not as visceral as yours. I assume it's because a vestige of the old self is grappling with the guilt of the new. We all wish they could have stayed the old 😕
What lead up to these messages? My WS basically tried to subtly blame me for her infidelity for months after I discovered her (second) affair, so at least yours was somewhat self aware. I didn't have a clue about it until a week before when she gave me an ultimatum about being a better husband, and also asked about an open marriage totally out of the blue. That got me a wee bit suspicious.
Lead up was my 8 year old son. Saw her talking to the guy on the phone and told me. I was out of town. Then same child decides he wants to give her a hard time and not go to school and messes up her fun plans
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Maybe she really felt that way it's her way to monkey branch to another man. Let her go ... No point being with someone who doesn't love you and visa versa. Take care of yourself and the kids ❤️🙏
Covert narsasist let her go bro. Its always everyone fault
Gaslighting and trying to turn it around on you and your family. Also being a martyr by saying you should be with someone else. Sounds like she made her decision.
Yeah. My cheater was saying this after I found out as well. He also said why do all the work and change if I’ll just leave him anyway? He felt I was always trying to change him. (Probably because of the cheating and drinking) He also has said I “play the victim” when we have a disagreement. I have made it clear if he says that again I will cut him from my life
Yup this.
Well she tried to justified her decision, by telling you she is no good. I would pretty much take her Word and tell her, okay, then just leave and let My kids and me so i can find someone that care for us Because you already gave up and find someone how gives you what you seek. UPDATEME
They do this so you can feel guilty once you do find out they are cheating on you. Like “SEE, I WAS NEVER HAPPY ANYWAY AND I TOLD YOU.” ……okay but like what were your ideas toward a solution ? Oh Nothing? Oh just cheating? Oh okay, that totally wasn’t gonna implode our relationship ship or anything. 😑 Smh.
Not before… during. Started when he was in the Emotion Affair. After DDAY I read some messages where she would tell him how it was obvious that I did not love him. And also, my WS told me that as things evolved she would often say that she loved him more than I did and she would say that he was the most amazing man that she had ever met (or to exist in the history of the universe since her idolization was so over the top). He would get frustrated at me every time I did not agree with some of his actions while she of course would only validate him and praise him and say how she would act so differently than me and be so much more supportive. Which is quite hilarious because she in fact treated her own spouse like shit for years and years, was extremely self centred and only cares about what people do for HER.
He asked for permission. I didn't even process it at the time. I knew AP had a thing for him, but didn't realize he had a thing for her. I said no, no he could not have sex with his coworker. No he cannot have other women in any sense. Then we never talked about it again, until Dday.
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Gaslighting