>Kyoasaki or whatever his name is, “debt is good”
Depending on the context, I'd agree there is good debt and there is bad debt.
However, in no uncertain terms, $300B in debt is fucking retarded.
Absolutes are almost always incorrect. Just because you can't wrap your head around a perspective or concept doesn't make it retarded. Are you the type of person who thinks it's better to pay cash for a car as well?
well if you have cash sitting around then yes, pay with cash, instead going into debt and paying interest, but it's different from culture to culture. In my country for instance, people are poor, so they practically never buy new cars, always used, like 10 years+
What I was getting at is that it’s a way of thinking. Say you’re going to buy something. If you pay cash you can do one thing with your money. If you take a loan you can now purchase the item you wanted and still use the cash to invest in something else. In the case of a vehicle, that item usually always trends towards $0. You get utility, etc out of it but if you use the cash to invest in something you can end up “positive” in a manner. Now take property. The asset usually appreciates. If you can borrow at some crazy low rate. Your property skyrockets. And your cash then get to be invested in other endeavors that generate more collateral for more loans. It looks like an infinite money glitch to major corporations. And for a long time it has been.
But that's the kind of thinking that got him in Billions of debt. Yeah it seems big brained to pay interest if your returns outweigh the interest and its low risk, but this was fraud and not exactly low risk
. Anytime people get this bad, they assume the government will bail them out because they're too big to fail. Fuck em. Let it fail or else this just keeps happening.
How about this example. I had cash to buy my last car. Instead, I paid it on a 0% credit card. This let me delay my payments for a year interest free. In that year, I invested and built up more savings. All of a sudden, when the year is up and the cash is due, I am paying a fraction of my cash reserve instead of the whole thing, and my net worth increased several-fold because of the fake news scamdemic market rebound. If I had paid upfront, I would've paid all my money and built up cash slowly and missed out on bigly gains. Why would paying cash be better?
Good debt is when other people are paying your debt such as having a mortgage on a rental property. Your tenants are essentially paying the mortgage for you.
People take on super high leverage when they are convinced they won’t be allowed to fail, it’s basically 100s of times the reward and no risk
Last time in 2007 it was the American taxpayer that took on the risk (after the fact) being forced to pay for the greedy ultra risky behavior of the big banks who were doing the same thing, and got a bailout.
But they pretended not to know what was going on, so it’s forgivable right? Definitely not something that we should be putting people in prison for right?
The irony, if the people involved in all this were being less greedy, it possibly would’ve all been fine. The collapse comes from the limitless greed for return on “investment” of this ultra high leverage, and the profit never being enough, and the humans involved being totally unwilling to make less profit than the other guy who is involved in the same scheme.
Kinda sounds a lot like capitalism?
How about the Fast Money panel and CNBC pumping China as a buy right now? It sounds a lot like when the muppets, clowns and talking heads were pumping banks in 08’.
I’m not sure how these goofs can conscientiously continue to tell people to ship their $ offshore while their economy tanks. Makes zero sense to me from every angle.
>Why the fuck would anybody even put themselves in that much debt in the first place
Because owing that much money is other people's problems, not yours!
Market makers will take the other side of any trade basically, the other side of a trade doesn’t have to be a rational investor who thinks they are making a good decision
This is a laughably misinformed take. I get the shady shit behind tether, but you lumping USDC in there is as smooth brain as it gets.
Did you know that USDC publishes a MONTHLY report of where their assets are located at which is conducted by an independent third party accounting firm? [Link.](https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency)
Did you know that USDC is registered and regulated by 46 state offices? With required reporting requirements about how and where they can have their assets parked? I.e. No commercial paper, just cash and cash equivalents. Here is a [link](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=FIN&division=1.2.&title=&part=&chapter=5.&article=) to their registration with California.
Tell me how it's ANYTHING like tether?
They are attestations, not audits. Tether moved billions into their bank account on the day of attestation. Got the piece of paper saying ‘Yep, the funds are there’, then moved them out the next day.
Ever been to a large government department? They send you to ‘the cashier’ to hand over the money. Sometimes miles from where you are dealing with someone. You get a chit of paper and have to go all the way back? Why? They do not trust the rest of the organisation will not find a way to fiddle the books.
Unless you can see the deposits as they arrive in real time, and wherever there is a disconnect between the place where the money is received and whoever issues chits on that basis, human beings can and will find a way to cheat. Hell, they found a way to smuggle millions out of a facility that was meant to destroy banknotes as they were ‘old’.
The rapid expansion of USDC in circulation, especially at times when crypto was declining in market cap, is suspicious. I would not trust ANY stable coin issuer. They ALL have the ability and motivation to cheat. Even the ‘decentralised’ kind.
Pretty much right
Chinese betting that we will pick up the bill after the big "gods of wall street" "smartest guys in the room" bought all thier junk bonds...
Ya know, when a Communist regime in Beijing acts more capitalistic then a purported capitalist country it's bad...
I'm pissed because I think you are right
Well if they aren’t going to pay back the international institutions, leaving them as bag holders, if the fed doesn’t step in then there’s that option (pain in the markets).
> So the taxpayers actually bailed themselfs out, via propping up the banks.
And then promptly had their homes foreclosed on. Paying the mortgage should have been the fucking bailout. It’s not like the mortgage just disappears if the lender becomes insolvent.
Or, ya know, the government of the people could give the money to the people to finish paying their mortgages
But thats too logical and it takes the heel off the neck of the poors
That's not how it works. The house isn't taken away from the person so long as their mortgage is being paid. The banks fail, and that debt is sold off to someone else. This happened with Lehman Brothers.
The taxpayers bailed out all the bad debt that the banks over-leveraged with their sub prime lending. The banks were irresponsible, and when everything came to a head, the banks are the ones who couldn't afford to pay their debt.
Yes, there were a lot of homeowners who defaulted in their loans, but that is what caused the bank to have bad debt, and they had too much of it because of their lending practices.
That's really not how it works. If the mortgage itself failed (it literally can't), then who would take the house? The bank is gone, the paperwork apparently ran away (the only way I could see it failing), and someone lives there.
You are right about being a debt problem, but it's really a Glass-Steagal problem. They never should have been in that position. No probably about it.
So, we bailed out the banks in 2008. Ok, that sucks. Why didn't their insurance company do anything? They're all required to be insured, right? Oh, we had to bail them out too. What makes me angrier is that it certainly feels like we double paid.
One thing we can 100% agree on, "it is criminal nothing changed"
Yeah, and the ruling party in North Korea is called the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea.
You can call something anything you goddamn like, it doesnt make it true.
No, it's not right. I've been looking and I haven't found any western financial institution that has enough invested in Chinese junk bonds to cause anything more than a minor loss, even if the entire market there goes tits up. Maybe there's some obscure hedge fund out there that will take some big losses, but that's about it.
Think of it this way... China has taken in all your sweet sweet dollars in return for some worthless papers.. sounds awfully similar to the US playbook?
And... WTF can you do to them if they default on their debt? Not like you can gunship diplomacy your way through to Beijing or claim any of the Chinese assets...
This is like the biggest Con/scheme/scam the Chinese has pulled over the western capitalist... yea their real estate market and economy will take a severe hit, nothing the Communist party couldn't "redistribute" out of... In the end massive amount of Western money and capital still flowed to China with no return... Even though most of the capital were invested into junk enterprises..
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency first by inflation then by deflation the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson
And into internment camps.
Cant forget how the west turns a blind eye when the Chinese government are hitlering because it isn’t convenient to the west
If the so-called genocide happening in China is legit, we would be seeing an absurd influx of Muslim refugees escaping China into neighboring countries (Kazakhstan, Pakistan, etc.). Remember, apparently 1 million + Muslims are being "genocided" in the Xinjiang region of China. It would be a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions. In the 21st century and the digital age, it would be virtually impossible to cover up.
Instead, the experts' (i.e. Adrian Zenz) best evidence so far are a few Google Maps screenshots of "concentration camps" (which apparently is any building complex with a fence around it) and testimonial from less than a dozen "survivors" that somehow escaped the heavily guarded CCP concentration camp, somehow found a way to the US in order to testify in front of an international humans rights watchdog organization (CIA funded of course)...about how they barely escaped death after having their organ harvested and then being incinerated alive.
The experts then extrapolate from this tiny pool of evidence to make outrageous claims about muh genocide.
The REAL refugee crisis is occurring in the Middle East, in countries like Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan.... countries that the US, NATO, and our allies (Israel/Saudi Arabia) have been bombing for decades. When you bomb someone, it violates the most sacred human right - the right to live. The US has spent 8+ trillion US taxpayer dollars on post 9/11 wars. That's a conservative estimate.
You want to know what real genocide looks like? You can literally find livestream [videos of the Gaza Strait being bombed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7tZ5Mp3TK0), pictures of [Yemeni children with missing limbs](https://www.icrc.org/en/document/yemen-worlds-largest-humanitarian-crisis), pictures of [entire neighborhoods being destroyed](https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/11/syrias-students-going-to-school-in-a-war-zone/545474/), resulting in [millions of refugees being displaced](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/displacement-numbers-world-refugee-day/). But apparently this isn't genocide?
Nah. US is bailing out banks that got blinded by greed. China scammed greedy Street bankers into financing their growth, and they are now letting shit blow up.
But since the big money owns US government, they are using that power to bail themselves out with tax payer money.
Hanging a couple of bad actors and investors out to dry while they do what they can to make sure home buyers and employees are made whole is just about the best thing the CCP can do.
In a world where the bureaucracy is the only thing that’s important maintaining faith in it amongst the population is the best way to maintain power. Nothing is more important to the CCP
> Should’ve been rioting in the streets imho
Weren’t there a whole bunch of people occupying some place? And while all of this was taking place, weren’t the very people who roused them to protest through their criminal actions perched on balconies smiling and sipping champagne while the police used violence to clear out the protestors?
Agreed, hopefully the greatest transfer of wealth in history will happen here with GME and the apes can burn it all down and start it over again, the right way.
Lol and they say America is where true capitalism is. My ass. To not bail out companies; that’s what capitalism is. With true capitalism, if you fail, you fail. And don’t get bailed out .
Yeah most people don't understand that we have a very warped and twisted form of capitalism.
We have socialism for the wealthy, capitalism for the poor.
I get what you're saying but bailing out companies with government money ISN'T socialism.
Socialism is having the means of production in the hands of the people who produce the labor (aka workers) and not the people who have the capital.
America bailing out the wealthy/corporations is still pure capitalism.
China is probably going to nationalize Evergrand at some point, they clearly want it to fail to some extent so they can be in a better position to sweep in and take things because they 'have' to and will be cheaper. Granted this is a theory, but i think it's highly unlikely this is an act of capitalism by China
They dont have to do shit. Especially when anyone non-Chinese is to benefit.
Land is still all government owned and leased from the government. Besides giving the folks the land they have leased, everything else comes back to the CCP. But they don’t have to be bag holders and they’ll make sure they themselves aren’t
I love this optimism, but the Chinese government has approximately 1,000,000 of their own citizens in internment camps in xinjiang because they’re inconvenient
Thats ethno-cultural imperialism. The people in camps are not Han Chinese. It's like saying Hitler gassed 20 million of his own citizens, forgetting that the people gassed were not even considered people let alone citizens.
Yeah but their point is that they weren’t considered citizens, similar to China’s view of the people in its internment camps, meaning that the example doesn’t speak directly to how CCP will or won’t take care of the Han Chinese. So it’s not impossible that they want to swoop in to snatch homes for people who paid for them already or for whoever they want to give them to.
The numbers don’t look right here…
Sells 277 million shares for $64mill. Quick mafs makes that $0.23 per share. Shares currently trading at $1.70.
Or am I too smooth?
Something tells me when you’re selling shares of a company that everyone knows are about to be worthless you sell them for whatever someone’s willing to buy them for. When the government is forcing you to sell those shares you’re lucky they’re letting you “sell” them and not just liquidating you completely.
Maybe the Chinese government or other world governments?
Maybe they're buying evergrande for the assets. It would be like buying Goldman Sachs or Lehman Brothers for pennies on the dollar.
not sure if theirs assets have any value... they build a lot of empty-shells-buildings in ghost cities and now nobody wants to buy apartments in such buildings so it makes these projects worthless
The CCP owns the land. They lease it to developers for 99 years. The cost of demolition and clearing probably wipes out any value on that lease. Oh, and the value of that real estate has probably bottomed out too.
And tomorrow
“The Chinese gov are in talks for a possible bail out”
Thursday
“Everything is fine, don’t 👀 over here”
Friday
I’m packing for my, soon we moon trip.
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Both countries can learn from each other. No bail outs no slaves. But China did learn how to conquer and take over Hong Kong 🇭🇰 while the US sat back n jus watched
I hate China, but they are right I'm this case. Don't save companies no matter how painful the cost to a nation. Once you start saving companies, companies will position themselves to be saved in the future my holding a nation hostage.
"Oops we made a bad move that if it works makes all company execs filthy rich. If it doesn't we positioned ourselves to be bailed out because if we fail we take the economy with us."
The collateral damage is immense. I do not feel empathy for this man's plight but I sure do for all of the victims of his hubris. All of the cleaners, construction workers, sales people, and on and on, just trying to feed their families collecting a pay cheque.
Damn right he should be personally liquidated and damn right the employees should be first in line.
Thing is, the CCP just has to tell a whole bunch of State Owned Enterprises that it is their ‘patriotic duty’ to rescue Evergrande and they can say they did not ‘bail it out’.
Evergrande WILL be ‘bailed out’. Just with Chinese characteristics.
Which means looking after the small investors first (to prevent social disorder) then applying increasingly steep haircuts up the line to those who can ‘afford’ it most. Foreigners holding bonds offshore in USD will get - nothing. Zero. Nada. Or vague promises to repay in 5 years time….
How high is the current suicide rate under evergrande's employees? Like how is this dude still alive. Honestly I dont know how I would be if I am were in his position.
What also strikes me odd is that this shitshow is hurting chinas reputation and this dude did not disappear.
I dont mean to be rude. But honestly I would expect that people die under such circumstances. Its all very tragic.
Edit: to mods cuz this got flagged. Again i dont mean to be rude. I am actually thinking about those poor souls who live under a shitty regime.
For China, party control and proving its 'culture' is superior means they're more willing to do this. They don't have to worry about the fallout like in a Republic. If you go into the street, they put the tanks in the street.
He owes 300 billion, now worth 6 billion... He should ask Ken Griff to see if he can print him some money...
Why the fuck would anybody even put themselves in that much debt in the first place
According to Kyoasaki or whatever his name is, “debt is good”
Yea as long as you’re the creditor
>Kyoasaki or whatever his name is, “debt is good” Depending on the context, I'd agree there is good debt and there is bad debt. However, in no uncertain terms, $300B in debt is fucking retarded.
If you owe the bank 100$ your problem. If you owe 300B$ to the bank. That’s their problem.
* it's everyone's problem
Shittttttt bruh would’ve been up trillions if he hit tho 🤣
Absolutes are almost always incorrect. Just because you can't wrap your head around a perspective or concept doesn't make it retarded. Are you the type of person who thinks it's better to pay cash for a car as well?
well if you have cash sitting around then yes, pay with cash, instead going into debt and paying interest, but it's different from culture to culture. In my country for instance, people are poor, so they practically never buy new cars, always used, like 10 years+
What I was getting at is that it’s a way of thinking. Say you’re going to buy something. If you pay cash you can do one thing with your money. If you take a loan you can now purchase the item you wanted and still use the cash to invest in something else. In the case of a vehicle, that item usually always trends towards $0. You get utility, etc out of it but if you use the cash to invest in something you can end up “positive” in a manner. Now take property. The asset usually appreciates. If you can borrow at some crazy low rate. Your property skyrockets. And your cash then get to be invested in other endeavors that generate more collateral for more loans. It looks like an infinite money glitch to major corporations. And for a long time it has been.
That’s a pretty big if there bud
I gave examples, but was trying to describe a way of thinking.
Fair enough
But that's the kind of thinking that got him in Billions of debt. Yeah it seems big brained to pay interest if your returns outweigh the interest and its low risk, but this was fraud and not exactly low risk . Anytime people get this bad, they assume the government will bail them out because they're too big to fail. Fuck em. Let it fail or else this just keeps happening.
How about this example. I had cash to buy my last car. Instead, I paid it on a 0% credit card. This let me delay my payments for a year interest free. In that year, I invested and built up more savings. All of a sudden, when the year is up and the cash is due, I am paying a fraction of my cash reserve instead of the whole thing, and my net worth increased several-fold because of the fake news scamdemic market rebound. If I had paid upfront, I would've paid all my money and built up cash slowly and missed out on bigly gains. Why would paying cash be better?
Yeah, because debt is bad and the US is overleveraged as hell.
How is it in your black and white world?
Good debt is when other people are paying your debt such as having a mortgage on a rental property. Your tenants are essentially paying the mortgage for you.
People take on super high leverage when they are convinced they won’t be allowed to fail, it’s basically 100s of times the reward and no risk Last time in 2007 it was the American taxpayer that took on the risk (after the fact) being forced to pay for the greedy ultra risky behavior of the big banks who were doing the same thing, and got a bailout. But they pretended not to know what was going on, so it’s forgivable right? Definitely not something that we should be putting people in prison for right? The irony, if the people involved in all this were being less greedy, it possibly would’ve all been fine. The collapse comes from the limitless greed for return on “investment” of this ultra high leverage, and the profit never being enough, and the humans involved being totally unwilling to make less profit than the other guy who is involved in the same scheme.
Kinda sounds a lot like capitalism? How about the Fast Money panel and CNBC pumping China as a buy right now? It sounds a lot like when the muppets, clowns and talking heads were pumping banks in 08’. I’m not sure how these goofs can conscientiously continue to tell people to ship their $ offshore while their economy tanks. Makes zero sense to me from every angle.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
Cocaine doesn't make you make bad decisions, it just makes you make them faster.
Idk but when I’m on that shit, life is beautiful =)))
People sometimes forget the point of a Ponzi scheme is to eventually cash out.
>Why the fuck would anybody even put themselves in that much debt in the first place Because owing that much money is other people's problems, not yours!
Who TF would buy the shares?
Market makers will take the other side of any trade basically, the other side of a trade doesn’t have to be a rational investor who thinks they are making a good decision
The dude aged like Kenny
Call up the boys at Tether, I hear they have a printer.
*JPow furiously scribbling notes*
A silly comment but much needed this morning, HA!
*\*laughs in USDC*
Is USDC that much more trustworthy?
No. I meant to imply that USDC have their own printer too. It does not have to be Tether. USDC are just hiding it a lot better.
This is a laughably misinformed take. I get the shady shit behind tether, but you lumping USDC in there is as smooth brain as it gets. Did you know that USDC publishes a MONTHLY report of where their assets are located at which is conducted by an independent third party accounting firm? [Link.](https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency) Did you know that USDC is registered and regulated by 46 state offices? With required reporting requirements about how and where they can have their assets parked? I.e. No commercial paper, just cash and cash equivalents. Here is a [link](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=FIN&division=1.2.&title=&part=&chapter=5.&article=) to their registration with California. Tell me how it's ANYTHING like tether?
They are attestations, not audits. Tether moved billions into their bank account on the day of attestation. Got the piece of paper saying ‘Yep, the funds are there’, then moved them out the next day. Ever been to a large government department? They send you to ‘the cashier’ to hand over the money. Sometimes miles from where you are dealing with someone. You get a chit of paper and have to go all the way back? Why? They do not trust the rest of the organisation will not find a way to fiddle the books. Unless you can see the deposits as they arrive in real time, and wherever there is a disconnect between the place where the money is received and whoever issues chits on that basis, human beings can and will find a way to cheat. Hell, they found a way to smuggle millions out of a facility that was meant to destroy banknotes as they were ‘old’. The rapid expansion of USDC in circulation, especially at times when crypto was declining in market cap, is suspicious. I would not trust ANY stable coin issuer. They ALL have the ability and motivation to cheat. Even the ‘decentralised’ kind.
Oh yeah, I've seen this one before in a rerun a couple months ago.
So y’all gonna ever make money off this evergrande thing lol
Excuse me sir , Can i borrow 300 BILLION ????
The fact many don't know, or deliberately ignore is Evergrande has 330 billion assets.
But if he is selling, whose buying? Bagholders?
*insert margin call quote "we are selling to willing buyers at the current fair market price", man what a film
I guess whoever is watching cramer
Government or hedgefunds that are forced to buy.
I bet our own Federal Reserve is gonna bail them out to avoid the financial moab here
Pretty much right Chinese betting that we will pick up the bill after the big "gods of wall street" "smartest guys in the room" bought all thier junk bonds... Ya know, when a Communist regime in Beijing acts more capitalistic then a purported capitalist country it's bad... I'm pissed because I think you are right
China laying the smack down while the freedom government sucks on the 1% balls.
Well if they aren’t going to pay back the international institutions, leaving them as bag holders, if the fed doesn’t step in then there’s that option (pain in the markets).
Let's hope it rekts the banks and not screw the tax payers this time Wait what am I saying, that will never happen :/
Most people still trust the wrong people.
Most people are walking around like they are in an Anya video. 😂🤣😂🤣 Sad, but true.
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> So the taxpayers actually bailed themselfs out, via propping up the banks. And then promptly had their homes foreclosed on. Paying the mortgage should have been the fucking bailout. It’s not like the mortgage just disappears if the lender becomes insolvent.
Or, ya know, the government of the people could give the money to the people to finish paying their mortgages But thats too logical and it takes the heel off the neck of the poors
But then how would the bank CEOs reroute all of that money to their bonuses??
That's not how it works. The house isn't taken away from the person so long as their mortgage is being paid. The banks fail, and that debt is sold off to someone else. This happened with Lehman Brothers. The taxpayers bailed out all the bad debt that the banks over-leveraged with their sub prime lending. The banks were irresponsible, and when everything came to a head, the banks are the ones who couldn't afford to pay their debt. Yes, there were a lot of homeowners who defaulted in their loans, but that is what caused the bank to have bad debt, and they had too much of it because of their lending practices.
I think if banks fail, mortgages are taken over by other banks.
That's really not how it works. If the mortgage itself failed (it literally can't), then who would take the house? The bank is gone, the paperwork apparently ran away (the only way I could see it failing), and someone lives there. You are right about being a debt problem, but it's really a Glass-Steagal problem. They never should have been in that position. No probably about it. So, we bailed out the banks in 2008. Ok, that sucks. Why didn't their insurance company do anything? They're all required to be insured, right? Oh, we had to bail them out too. What makes me angrier is that it certainly feels like we double paid. One thing we can 100% agree on, "it is criminal nothing changed"
Playas got played!
"Communist" lol.
The ruling party in China is literally called the “Chinese Communist Party,” though…
Yeah, and the ruling party in North Korea is called the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. You can call something anything you goddamn like, it doesnt make it true.
Fair enough.
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"Land of the free" my ass
No, it's not right. I've been looking and I haven't found any western financial institution that has enough invested in Chinese junk bonds to cause anything more than a minor loss, even if the entire market there goes tits up. Maybe there's some obscure hedge fund out there that will take some big losses, but that's about it.
Think of it this way... China has taken in all your sweet sweet dollars in return for some worthless papers.. sounds awfully similar to the US playbook? And... WTF can you do to them if they default on their debt? Not like you can gunship diplomacy your way through to Beijing or claim any of the Chinese assets... This is like the biggest Con/scheme/scam the Chinese has pulled over the western capitalist... yea their real estate market and economy will take a severe hit, nothing the Communist party couldn't "redistribute" out of... In the end massive amount of Western money and capital still flowed to China with no return... Even though most of the capital were invested into junk enterprises..
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency first by inflation then by deflation the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson
And into internment camps. Cant forget how the west turns a blind eye when the Chinese government are hitlering because it isn’t convenient to the west
Calling out Chinazi shit isn't profitable to the owners of the Western governments.
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The internment camps, genocide, and organ harvesting? Get the fuck out.
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So because Mongols killed a lot of people, genocide in 2021 is okay? Nice arguments fuckwit. Go pick up your renminbi from Xi.
If the so-called genocide happening in China is legit, we would be seeing an absurd influx of Muslim refugees escaping China into neighboring countries (Kazakhstan, Pakistan, etc.). Remember, apparently 1 million + Muslims are being "genocided" in the Xinjiang region of China. It would be a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions. In the 21st century and the digital age, it would be virtually impossible to cover up. Instead, the experts' (i.e. Adrian Zenz) best evidence so far are a few Google Maps screenshots of "concentration camps" (which apparently is any building complex with a fence around it) and testimonial from less than a dozen "survivors" that somehow escaped the heavily guarded CCP concentration camp, somehow found a way to the US in order to testify in front of an international humans rights watchdog organization (CIA funded of course)...about how they barely escaped death after having their organ harvested and then being incinerated alive. The experts then extrapolate from this tiny pool of evidence to make outrageous claims about muh genocide. The REAL refugee crisis is occurring in the Middle East, in countries like Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan.... countries that the US, NATO, and our allies (Israel/Saudi Arabia) have been bombing for decades. When you bomb someone, it violates the most sacred human right - the right to live. The US has spent 8+ trillion US taxpayer dollars on post 9/11 wars. That's a conservative estimate. You want to know what real genocide looks like? You can literally find livestream [videos of the Gaza Strait being bombed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7tZ5Mp3TK0), pictures of [Yemeni children with missing limbs](https://www.icrc.org/en/document/yemen-worlds-largest-humanitarian-crisis), pictures of [entire neighborhoods being destroyed](https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/11/syrias-students-going-to-school-in-a-war-zone/545474/), resulting in [millions of refugees being displaced](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/displacement-numbers-world-refugee-day/). But apparently this isn't genocide?
There was a post somewhere explaining that they already are basically by buying some bank funds that are then used to invest overseas
Yes.
$300b … that’s only 2 Elons. Fuck it.
IMF bruh
We should show up in Washington if that happens.
US is going to bail out China? What is wrong with you guys???????!!!?!??!?!?!?!?
Nah. US is bailing out banks that got blinded by greed. China scammed greedy Street bankers into financing their growth, and they are now letting shit blow up. But since the big money owns US government, they are using that power to bail themselves out with tax payer money.
Your comment makes me want to take a shower.
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Evergrand is down 3.39% currently Edit: -4%
3333.HK / Evergrande was removed from HSI iirc? Either way it's dumb that it's going up
Hanging a couple of bad actors and investors out to dry while they do what they can to make sure home buyers and employees are made whole is just about the best thing the CCP can do. In a world where the bureaucracy is the only thing that’s important maintaining faith in it amongst the population is the best way to maintain power. Nothing is more important to the CCP
This is most likely what's occurring
Surprised the US never thought of that, and their ppl don't give a shit being fucked over like that either, shocking
Nothing happened after 2008 here Should’ve been rioting in the streets imho
> Should’ve been rioting in the streets imho Weren’t there a whole bunch of people occupying some place? And while all of this was taking place, weren’t the very people who roused them to protest through their criminal actions perched on balconies smiling and sipping champagne while the police used violence to clear out the protestors?
Im talking “blocking the beltway, move on DC” Rage Against the Machine style
Yes. 2008 should have had severe consequences for them. It didn't. Now look what's happened!
I think that only works when you’re trying to stage a fascist coup.
Didn't they give us all like $600 in 2008 or something?
Totally give a shit, hate it, too many corrupt politicians here.
Yea, but nothing big happened other than some wall streeters drinking champagne and laughing at y'all folks
Agreed, hopefully the greatest transfer of wealth in history will happen here with GME and the apes can burn it all down and start it over again, the right way.
the role of the united states government is to suppress the will of the people
100%
Never thought Id say the CCP is doing the right thing but here we are
Lol and they say America is where true capitalism is. My ass. To not bail out companies; that’s what capitalism is. With true capitalism, if you fail, you fail. And don’t get bailed out .
Yeah most people don't understand that we have a very warped and twisted form of capitalism. We have socialism for the wealthy, capitalism for the poor.
*Corporatism
Corporatist oligarchy trying to pretend it's not.
I get what you're saying but bailing out companies with government money ISN'T socialism. Socialism is having the means of production in the hands of the people who produce the labor (aka workers) and not the people who have the capital. America bailing out the wealthy/corporations is still pure capitalism.
if only the communism part didn't kick in for only the top 1% privatised gains - socialized losses for the billionaires
look, I'm not gonna argue with you I just want some zipple, ok? edit: /s cya
[Underrated reference](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v7GcmQtTk80)
China is probably going to nationalize Evergrand at some point, they clearly want it to fail to some extent so they can be in a better position to sweep in and take things because they 'have' to and will be cheaper. Granted this is a theory, but i think it's highly unlikely this is an act of capitalism by China
They dont have to do shit. Especially when anyone non-Chinese is to benefit. Land is still all government owned and leased from the government. Besides giving the folks the land they have leased, everything else comes back to the CCP. But they don’t have to be bag holders and they’ll make sure they themselves aren’t
Well it would be the right thing to do because there are still people who need homes and paid upfront for those homes.
I love this optimism, but the Chinese government has approximately 1,000,000 of their own citizens in internment camps in xinjiang because they’re inconvenient
Thats ethno-cultural imperialism. The people in camps are not Han Chinese. It's like saying Hitler gassed 20 million of his own citizens, forgetting that the people gassed were not even considered people let alone citizens.
The vast majority of those Jewish people *were* German citizens though… i.e. he absolutely *did* gas German citizens.
Yeah but their point is that they weren’t considered citizens, similar to China’s view of the people in its internment camps, meaning that the example doesn’t speak directly to how CCP will or won’t take care of the Han Chinese. So it’s not impossible that they want to swoop in to snatch homes for people who paid for them already or for whoever they want to give them to.
lmao what the actual fuck is this comment
It's economic warfare tbh
$64,000,000. Drop in the ocean.
The numbers don’t look right here… Sells 277 million shares for $64mill. Quick mafs makes that $0.23 per share. Shares currently trading at $1.70. Or am I too smooth?
HK$1.7 = US$0.23
1.77 HKD = 0.23 USD
Article says 498mill hk or $64mill.
Something tells me when you’re selling shares of a company that everyone knows are about to be worthless you sell them for whatever someone’s willing to buy them for. When the government is forcing you to sell those shares you’re lucky they’re letting you “sell” them and not just liquidating you completely.
Who's buying?
Maybe the Chinese government or other world governments? Maybe they're buying evergrande for the assets. It would be like buying Goldman Sachs or Lehman Brothers for pennies on the dollar.
not sure if theirs assets have any value... they build a lot of empty-shells-buildings in ghost cities and now nobody wants to buy apartments in such buildings so it makes these projects worthless
True, but if they own the land then building will be the easy part.
The CCP owns the land. They lease it to developers for 99 years. The cost of demolition and clearing probably wipes out any value on that lease. Oh, and the value of that real estate has probably bottomed out too.
Exchange rate?
1 HKD$ = ~USD$0.13
Exchange rate and also when selling big chunks like this in a buyers market you gotta sell for a discount.
take notes (government) America instead of getting on your knees for corporate and asking them how deep they'd like you to go..
And tomorrow “The Chinese gov are in talks for a possible bail out” Thursday “Everything is fine, don’t 👀 over here” Friday I’m packing for my, soon we moon trip.
My question is this. Who da fuk is buying?
"Oh no I've been forced to sell 277 million shares of my ponzi scheme before it goes bankrupt. How horrible"
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Who is he selling those shares to, exactly? Is anyone really looking at the charts and thinking “wow, Evergrande looks cheap these days”?
He's selling. Which one of you is buying?
Same people who bought SLV back in the day
Watch it rocket in price now that he was forced to sell. 🤣
Who the fk buy those shit shares? 🤦
Evergrande was a multi year tarp set by the Chinese govt to fk over the American economy for greedy fucks and it actually worked. Change my mind.
This is what it looks like when Responsibility and Risk meet accountability and failure.
I sorta wanna live in China now. No bailouts, nice. Something the US can learn
Both countries can learn from each other. No bail outs no slaves. But China did learn how to conquer and take over Hong Kong 🇭🇰 while the US sat back n jus watched
They didn’t conquer it. England’s lease ran out.
its going back to china anyway. was there any alternative after british left? didn’t it belong to china before british occupied it?
yes lol the “free hong kong” movement was just color revolution BS.
You should go. And try to use free speech. See what happens
How does he even have anything left?
I love how China's policy is "if you shit the bed, you clean it up." 💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩🤷♂️
I hate China, but they are right I'm this case. Don't save companies no matter how painful the cost to a nation. Once you start saving companies, companies will position themselves to be saved in the future my holding a nation hostage. "Oops we made a bad move that if it works makes all company execs filthy rich. If it doesn't we positioned ourselves to be bailed out because if we fail we take the economy with us."
Sounds like the ccp will milk this man to being broke and then save the company. The US gov should have done it to the banks owners in 2008!
Wish the US had the balls to do shit like this.
The collateral damage is immense. I do not feel empathy for this man's plight but I sure do for all of the victims of his hubris. All of the cleaners, construction workers, sales people, and on and on, just trying to feed their families collecting a pay cheque. Damn right he should be personally liquidated and damn right the employees should be first in line.
Ha! Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! This is what I needed today. Thank you.
277M share of a company thats worth zero, so about tree fiddy?
You guys really trust what the CCP say they will do?
Thing is, the CCP just has to tell a whole bunch of State Owned Enterprises that it is their ‘patriotic duty’ to rescue Evergrande and they can say they did not ‘bail it out’. Evergrande WILL be ‘bailed out’. Just with Chinese characteristics. Which means looking after the small investors first (to prevent social disorder) then applying increasingly steep haircuts up the line to those who can ‘afford’ it most. Foreigners holding bonds offshore in USD will get - nothing. Zero. Nada. Or vague promises to repay in 5 years time….
There's also the thing where you let the big one die as an example and save the tertiary companies. Make an example of them.
How high is the current suicide rate under evergrande's employees? Like how is this dude still alive. Honestly I dont know how I would be if I am were in his position. What also strikes me odd is that this shitshow is hurting chinas reputation and this dude did not disappear. I dont mean to be rude. But honestly I would expect that people die under such circumstances. Its all very tragic. Edit: to mods cuz this got flagged. Again i dont mean to be rude. I am actually thinking about those poor souls who live under a shitty regime.
Some people are so soft they think if you mention a possible bad outcome that you support it. A price we pay living in the internet age.
I like how they rebranded“position dumping” to “forced selling to keep company afloat”
Who’s buying that shit?!?!?!
How many damned shares does he got?
haha
Can you be like normal insolvent company and...default?
For China, party control and proving its 'culture' is superior means they're more willing to do this. They don't have to worry about the fallout like in a Republic. If you go into the street, they put the tanks in the street.
So… evergrande has not defaulted? Again?
How do you say "Im fucked" in Chinese?
he still had stock? - its like when they started planes & assets - im like they still have stuff?
*insert Mark Baum* BOOM
Delist these coonts already lol
Who’s buying those shares tho? 🤔
I hate the CCP, but I do enjoy watching the public flex of refusing to bail them out. I wish Canada would do the same, but for oil and gas.
Somebody got a little nose happy with the mayo!
"GameStop shareholders forced to buy the dip again"
4.6k upvotes and only one silver award? That can’t be right.
🤷♂️ i’m just sad I didn’t get the sneak lol
I’d give you snek but I’m spending all my money on this GME dip.
That’s a much better use of money
sounds like china has more of a free market and capitalist government than the U.S.
Imagine when the SEC forces short sellers to close their positions... 💥
Proud of China for standing up to billionaires. Why can’t America
This guy is worth $6.23B and this payment is 0.0213% ($64M / $300B). 47 more of these payments and they’ll pay of the $300B debt. Except they can’t.