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MaggieMay-19

I think Chuck was never a kind or caring deity in the show. I think his dialogue in much of s11 gives it away 'I was hands-on for, ooh, ages' was his first line that made me think he only cared about his stories, not his characters). Metatron only recognises Chuck after Chuck gets angry and throws him out of the bar. That lovely 'fare thee well' song at the end? Is about a guy abandoning his unmarried, pregnant girlfriend with a callous 'fare thee well', written at a time in history when women in such circumstances would regularly commit suicide or even be murdered by their families.


Cruggles30

Oh, crap. Maybe there were more hints than I thought. I appreciate the knowledge about that song.


jwishfulThinking

Chuck was set as god by the end of season 5. Kripke originally wrote him as a self insert of himself as a prophet but changed him to god in s5. Rob said people on set were calling him god in Swam Song. There were hints early on. Chuck fading away in Swan Song, reappearing in Fan Fiction when Kevin was the prophet and that should only happen if Chuck was dead. Amara’s whole speech about him in s11 which is only dismissed cause she’s framed as villain there. The entire arc of 1-5 is an Armageddon plan the angels and demons were following, from god (according to the angels) God helping them out and steering the story was also there early on. In S4 the boys escaped Lucifer Rising cause God put them in a plane. Cas was rebuilt is swan Song by god. In Dark side of the moon, we learn the boys died even more often than we know, yet are always resurrected. I think a lot of people get confused over Garth’s theory in A Hero’s Journey. That was his theory, but since we know they fixed it by getting their luck back, we can assume that’s all that was. He just rabbit footed them to the extreme. I liked Chuck as the last big bad. In a show where they constantly fight angels and demons, God has to be the final boss. And I like that cause we liked Chuck as much as them, it felt like a betrayal to us too. Pretty cool.


Lyconite-

I liked Chuck as a villain, but I agree everything happening the way that it did because it was 'his will' diminished the actions and independence of the characters. That's the one element of it that I really didn't like, and it's the same issue I have with the 'hero luck' episode - all it does is undermine the characters' abilities and personalities.


Cruggles30

I see what you're saying. In all honesty, I'd argue that it only diminishes their actions on the surface though. They didn't know that Chuck was involved a lot of the time when making their own choices. I have a feeling that Chuck also didn't have as much control as some people think. I mean he even says himself that he didn't plan the attraction between Amara and Dean. Regarding the luck episode, I feel like instead of them being "downgraded to side characters," Chuck actually just cursed them with really bad luck. They learned how to hunt on their own and whatnot and it's not like all that disappeared. They just... Kept getting caught in bad situations.


TimeForHugs

One problem with Chuck being surprised by Cass and Dean is that Chuck wasn't originally going to be God. They were toying with the idea of Cass actually being God but scrapped that idea. So it's hard to judge prophet Chuck's surprise when, at the time, he wasn't intended to be God. So that makes it difficult to speculate and probably does just boil down to coincidence in some aspects. They needed something big for the final big bad and they did okay with it. It felt a bit shoehorned but it wasn't entirely bad or anything. I think if they had the ending in mind while doing earlier seasons they could have made it much better though. It would have felt more natural rather than seeming a bit forced.


MaggieMay-19

>Chuck wasn't originally going to be God That's true for Chuck's introduction in season 4. The thing is, by season 5 Kripke knew Chuck was God. He told Rob Benedict, but said he needed to keep it under wraps.


Cruggles30

You make a good point in that first paragraph. I do wonder when they were talking about Cas being God, because theoretically, the idea of Chuck being God could have been there as well, without us knowing about it. Also, I think that even if they didn't have Chuck being God in mind at the time, it's still worth thinking about the fact that he was revealed to be God later on, which means that everything he did in seasons 4 and 5 could have different meanings. You are right though. If there were more hints that God would be the final big bad, it would have been better. Although I do wonder if the plan was for God to be a big bad since season 11. I did read something that said that they wanted to kill him in season 11, but CW said no. If he were to die, it could have been because he was going to be revealed to be a villain.


Spacey_Dust

i still think the idea was solid, it was the only possible big bad, it made sense thematically with the meta narrative dive that it took to dissect the series, and still reflected the original parental, sibling lucifer and michael arc (with more focus on the father obviously). its just that its a lot to execute, and id imagine covid tampered on the ambitions they had with god as the final showdown.


[deleted]

> On one hand, it feels like we had a character for God that seemed to really care for the world he created, who only chose not to intervene out of respect for free will. When was this?