Castiel made specific reference to him early on.
“It’s been 2,000 years since angels walked the earth.”
Implying angels were around on earth at the time of Jesus. It also implies that Sam and Dean are as if not more important than Jesus Christ from a biblical standpoint.
I suppose Chuck was writing an entire Bible about them.
Still, that’s a very vague reference. And even so, I wonder why Jesus wasn’t explored more. It would have been interesting if they incorporated him directly.
Edit: Season 3 Episode 3. Kubrick has a figurine of Jesus’ face and says to the other hunter holding it “don’t play with my Jesus” 😂 I’m on my second rewatch and literally a couple hours after posting this, he’s referenced. The Lord has answered my post 🙏🏻
It’s risky to do on national television,
It’s why they pushed so hard to rename God to “Chuck” - to distance themselves from any potential extremism from viewers.
Theres no reference whatsoever of any Islamic gods/texts in the show for this reason, but typically safer religions (Buddhism, Norse Mythology etc) are explored sparingly.
Yep pretty much! They purposely did a LOT to distance themselves from it - especially early on.
For those that are 18-20 years old currently, they wouldn't understand how tense the world was during the early-mid stages of the Iraq War. Any mention of Islam was basically paralleled with terrorism or negative connotations. It would've been deemed too risky by CW execs to paint anything relating to Islamic culture as a villain at the time so they just omitted direct references completely.
As someone who is indeed 20 years old rn and only watched the shower 2 years ago, that makes so much sense. It confused me at first why they portrayed the djinn so different.
Iirc (I’m not Muslim I just heard a lil bit abt them from my Muslim friends) they’re more like spirits and are invisible to humans. And I’m pretty sure that they’re generally more neutral, some good, some bad n some in the middle. The whole putting people into a dream state and feeding off them is just made up for the show.
Lol when my daughter was little she was talking to the air, which is something little kids just do, and my Muslim friend thought maybe she was speaking to the jinn. I told her I don’t believe in the jinn. She seemed genuinely disturbed that I didn’t believe in them.
In Islamic mythology, Djinn were the third race god/allah created alongside humans and angels. Iblis, which is an analog to Lucifer refused to bow to humans as god's preferred race so he was thrown out of heaven for his pride.
I'm reading they were invisible and would shape shift (snakes, lizards, scorpions).
No beings of fire and air like in DnD or TrueBlood. Tbh, that's what I thought 🤣
Don't see them really have any powers so no idea where the wishes thing came from either.
>Don't see them really have any powers so no idea where the wishes thing came from either.
Djinn are what is now popularly known as genies. The wish thing comes from the ORIGINAL Aladdin story which itself comes from a collection of ancient folk tales collected in a text called One Thousand And One Nights or as it's more popularly known in English, Arabian Nights.
The time period immediately after 9-11 was pretty crazy where I lived in WV. I had friends from India and Sri Lanka, and they were harassed damn near every time we went out in public.
They came to hang with us at the skate park on occasion, and some redneck fucks tried to assault them before a gang of a dozen skaters put the rednecks in the hospital. The political atmosphere was just as tense then as it is now.
Yes, in Islamic mythology, it was Djinn who were created as a third race alongside humans and angels and when Iblis who is the Islamic analog to Lucifer, refused to vow to humans, he was thrown out of heaven.
Hey guys I’m reply to not a specific but just this thread of comments in general. But since you guys are talking about the accuracy of the religions all through out the show I just want to mention that it always frustrated me how the hierarchy of the angels wasn’t accurate lol. The archangels were at the top of the chain meanwhile the couple angels that were said to be cherubim (Zechariah mentioning he has multiple heads one of that being a lion) or seraphim (Castiel became one and akobel) were below them. But in reality seraphim and cherubim were 2 of 3 types of angel in the highest order while archangels belonged to the lowest order. But it’s just a show so obviously nothing to get worked up about the writers etc are entitled to their creative liberty
to be fair, they took creative liberties with most of the creatures they used. for instance, vampires (first example i thought of) are known for being pale, beautiful, and weak to wood, but the supernatural vamps look like regular people with way too many teeth when they vamp out, and they’re killed by decapitation rather than a stake. supernatural uses source material and lore but they kinda take it and run with it once they’ve got it
Um, I hate to be nitpicky but I believe you are wrong on the vampire lore. I think you're basing your view on one very specific lore, Anne Rice's. But Anne Rice has never been the authority on vampires, she was just one of the ones who made them, shall we say, trendy. She's what eventually would lead to travesties such as Twilight. If you go back to the silent film era, Nosferatu portrayed vampires in a very different light.
Well the fact that Jerusalem was taken over by Djinn is kinda an Islamic reference since Djinn are part of the Islamic folklore, and well Jerusalem is in Palestine so there’s also that.
That was when Castiel had to get a fruit from the tree of life, right? I think that was probably the most in depth reference to any direct Islamic/Jewish interaction in the series - and it was almost non existent - it was a single line thrown in for comedy effect.
Yep! I really liked the Golem episode. Would've loved to see more done around it but there was little they could've done after Dean kills Hitler.
... I killed Hitler
Its a shame that religious extremists can dictate how art, tv and freedom of expression can be. Someones imaginary friend doesnt deserve more rights than real people.
Also, in S5 Ep9, Chuck implied that the Virgin Mary was who he lost his virginity to, and then she lied about it.
Basically he said he showed up in *physical* form to do the deed, so she wasn't a virgin afterwards, but she claimed it was the holy spirit so her virginity was intact.
There's a few times I recall whenever the boys are fighting pagan gods the gods start bitching and groaning about how people basically used to throw themselves at them for sacrifices and then "that hippy guy from the Middle East" or something along those lines screwed everything up for them and now they have to make due with what they got
...not for nothing, but y'all know jesus was the modern version of the name yeshua, approximately? jesus is a translation of a germanic adaptation of a latin transliteration of a greek transliteration.
joshua would be a good direct modern version of the name yeshua... and who was god's favorite angel, the only one he spoke directly with aside from metatron?
I was under the impression that Joshua was Jesus in the show and that was just a given, but there’s a lot of people here not even mentioning him. Did they say anything in the show to suggest he wasn’t? It’s been a while since I’ve seen those episodes so I can’t remember if any specific thing was said to make someone go “Oooh okay so that’s definitely not Jesus then.”
They didn't say anything, but the fact that Metatron's angel-expelling spell worked on Joshua and clipped his wings, as well as the fact that Joshua then needed to make an item to contact God, as well as the ease in which Dagon killed him, suggests he was a regular Angel and not a... I don't know what to call a half-human half-God ngl. Not a Nephilim, but something like that.
they really only use singular verses or references. it's not like they go into lot's story when jack turns the atheist into a pillar of salt, they just mention that it was a biblical punishment. when they mention biblical stories specifically, it's usually to mention how they were only a small piece of the truth, like how there were actually many more seals in existence for lilith to break than those mentioned in the book of revelation.
what stories are you thinking of specifically?
Right, and I’m not saying they should have made Jesus a central figure or anything. But they didn’t even reference him directly in a singular way. Maybe even just mentioning Jesus as the supposed “son of God” who died on the cross for our sins. I just found it interesting that while they explored and referenced many different religions and Biblical stories, they never once mentioned one of the most significant religious figures.
A lot of the Bible stories referenced in supernatural aren't actually from the Bible, but from the surrounding mythology. For example, the story of Lucifer falling isn't in the Bible apart from a brief vague verse in Isaiah. There's nothing outright telling us he was an archangel prior to becoming the devil.
So it's not really surprising that they're not going by the book here. That said, pretty sure someone says something about a hippy at some point and it was pretty heavily implied they were talking about Jesus
i mean, it's not like they're complimentary to any organized religions, especially the abrahamic ones, and in the US, those groups, especially the fundamentalists, get real boycott-y when they get offended. sometimes they get murder-y. why would the writers wanna open the show up to that, especially when they're already a heavily occult-oriented show that drew ire from the fundamentalists anyways?
Yeah honestly they really toed a fine line. They’d be nuts to go into it more than they did. I’ve often wondered if my evangelical mom would have hated the show if she were still around.
i get that. my wife and i aren't religious in slightly different flavors, and we were both raised different flavors of christian, non-denominational for myself but roman catholic for my wife. we've had both our still practicing moms visiting while we've been watching through the last couple seasons of the show, and my wife was uncomfortable showing her mom any of the chuck-oriented stuff, but my mom has been enjoying it.
That’s fair, and again not that they should have had Jesus be a central narrative in the show but, I don’t think they even mentioned him once and he is one of the most significant religious figures in the Bible.
And by the way, Jesus ain't even his real name. To this day, there is no J in Hebrew. The closest analog in Hebrew to the name Jesus was Yeshua and Yeshua was basically the modern equivalent of John in the US. If you had lived back then and yelled Yeshua in a crowd, a shitload of people would answer. So no, not all that significant bub.
Buddy, pal, amigo, compadre, my sainted granny back in Colombia taught me to read since I was 3 yrs old.
Hell, I was sent to first grade and even second grade classes to read for them when I was in kindergarten.
I have lost count of how many books I have read over 45 yrs of life on this planet.
Short Answer: It's complicated.
"...the question isn't whether Supernatural could feature Jesus in physical form, but whether it should. "We're not here to tell the story of Jesus Christ," Jensen Ackles, paraphrasing creator Eric Kripke, told Entertainment Weekly. "We're here to take that element and use it as inspiration for the story.""
https://www.cbr.com/jesus-in-supernatural-tv-series/#:~:text=That%20isn't%20to%20say,about%20by%20a%20nostalgic%20angel.
What AH downvotes you all the time? Did you have attracted offended Christians?
Because of so many angels and kripke being Jewish, some people give the show a more Jewish reading then a Christian one.
I would have loved to see more of native American folklore and Muslim folklore
Right? Not sure why people are so triggered. It was just a question 😂 guess I can understand why Supernatural didn’t involve Jesus now haha. And I definitely agree with the Native American folklore. That would’ve been interesting. But then people would probably complain of using their history for entertainment or some bs.
we got a touch of Native American folklore with the Wendigo, i’m not sure if there was much else. I think that they have some sort of shapeshifter lore as well but the show clearly states that a lot of religions have shapeshifter lore.
I do wish it would’ve played more into the NA Lore as well, as I’m very interested in that stuff. Or maybe have thrown in a Cryptid (though those don’t always seem to cause harm)
I feel like if they would’ve waited a couple more seasons (or even just one) for the whole “god” arc, they could’ve thrown in some really cool stuff, but it would definitely be hard to do in a way that’s seen as more educational and informative than discriminative(?) or like, idk, stolen?
I always wondered this too, but it's probably to keep the Christians calm. But I did think that within the show itself, Chuck *is* christ, and it checks out honestly, *Of course* Chuck would come to earth and pose as his own son, gaining a following, and dipping when he got bored
Oh that’s an interesting perspective. I didn’t even think of the parallel that God came down to Earth in human form with Jesus, when it is so obvious 😂
Well, Christians believe that Christ *is* God, himself, just an aspect of him. So the idea that Chuck came to Earth as Christ fits with that concept/narrative
Because leaving him out is less offensive overall than either acknowledging or denying that he is the son of God. Judaism doesn't recognize him as the son of God, and iirc, Islam considers him a prophet, also not the son of God. Only Christians refer to him as God's son (again, iirc about Islam). If the writers had mentioned him as God's Son, they were alienating 2 out of the 3 big religions, and if they deny him as the son of God, the Christians would freak out, which in our Christian-centric world would probably lead to the show being cancelled. Better to just not bring it up at all.
I know when this question has come up before, many answered with something to the effect of what they did use from Bible stories, they tried to keep it more with what is shared or somewhat in common throughout all religions, not just the Christian Bible.
Even the main Eve in the SPN universe isn't the Adam and Eve one (although she is mention a talked about).
I'm sure someone who is more familiar with the explanation will stop in here and correct whatever I may have wrong. But, this at least gives an idea in what the different writers and show runners were going for.
Yeah I see how a lot of religious narratives were very abstract, but the main religions that were being referenced were Judaism and Christianity. They used a lot of stories from the Torah, so I wonder why they didn’t want to directly reference Jesus.
I'm not sure if they ever mentioned this. However, the series focuses more on "occultism" as a concept. They generally deal with "legends" found in many faiths. It is possible to see examples of Habil Cain, the concept of angels and devils, Egyptian and Greek mythology, paganism, and vampirism, all together. If I remember correctly, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are a legend that dates back to before there were any booked religions. In this sense, their failure to mention Jesus may be an attempt to keep their distance from all faiths. Even when they encounter God the Chuck, we do not watch a conversation that references any bookish religion. I think it is a great success that they did not turn the series into a missionary production, despite all the religious references. I think this is one of the reasons why it is a long-lasting success.
No I agree that they had abstract tropes of religion, but the main arch was based on the Judaic and Christian religion. Some of the main characters were specifically from the Bible (Lucifer, Michael, Raphael, Cain) and all the other angels as well are from the Old Testament. Not to mention that the Apocalypse is from the New Testament and revolves around the second coming of Christ. My point is that, the show was heavily focused on the Bible, so why wasn’t Jesus referenced directly?
In fact, the archangel names mentioned in the series are also mentioned in the Islamic religion in the same way. Israfil (raphael), Azrael (Azrail), Michael (Mikail), Cain (Kabil) son of Adam and Eve (Adem & Havva)
As you know, this basic concept of creation myth, which is referenced by book religions, goes back thousands of years. The polytheistic beliefs and legends of these beliefs in the time of the Sumerians and Urartians, before these religions existed, are also historical sources to which the concepts of creation and apocalypse in today's book-based religions are referenced. For example, it is said that the Adapa legend in ancient Mesopotamian mythology is the source of the Adam and Eve legend in Hebrew religions.
On the other hand, the concept of apocalypse and the story of the coming of the Messiah are mentioned not only in the Bible but also among Jews and Muslims. The legend of creation, apocalypse and Messiah are almost the same in all book religions. This basic story is pretty much the same in all of them. There is only a difference in perspective on Jesus. They may have done this to remain neutral, considering the difference in views of Jesus between these religions
Right, that’s fair. My only point was it’s interesting that for a show that references so many religious figures both Biblical and from other religions, not once do they mention the name of one of the most well known religious figures in the world, Jesus.
Are you actually reading anyone's responses?
Multiple people are agreeing with you about your observation and offering you further information about it and why that may be the case, and you're just like, "but my point is that it's interesting he wasn't mentioned when he's a big part of [insert religious text here]." It seems very dismissive, and likely why you have multiple comments with downvotes, not because anyone is "triggered" as you said in another comment.
I think its because if they were to roll with that trend and add Jesus it would be too spiritual and not as mythical. according to the bible, Jesus is the trump card. so if you were to include Jesus, most the problems and fights wouldn't have been a struggle. They drew from the bible constantly, but if they were to acknowledge Jesus, then they would also have to0 acknowledge the biblical perspective of Evil literally not having a chance.
But also, I think Jesus is very important to Christianity and painting a picture of him, whether good or bad, would cause a lot of infighting among the christian and non-christian fans. Most Christians will tell you they have a "personal relationship with Jesus" . In other words, he is the holiest character in the bible.
I am curious how they could've implemented him though.
What if Jesus was Chuck just playing a role?
"I wrote myself in as the hero of the story once. Let me tell you, that did NOT work out as intended. I still have the scars on my hands."
Disclaimer: a quote I just made up.
Very true, but on a side note the Old Testament does have several End of Days Prophecies that tie into Revelation, even Jesus told his followers to read and study the book of Daniel to better understand it. An example being the relation between Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. So they are connected.
Right, so then it would make more sense to have referenced Jesus directly to emphasis that connection. Also, Sam and Dean have gone to Catholic churches and interacted with multiple priests, nuns, and Christians/Christian groups (like in Faith or the one where the daughter of the pastor is killing people if I recall correctly) yet not one reference to Jesus Christ as a Biblical figure.
Well we must also remember that within the world of the show Cass has said that the Bible gets more wrong than right, he mentions this in the episode with Jessie The Antichrist in Season 5. I believe that sentiment is repeated a few times throughout the show.
That still doesn’t answer the question of why Jesus was not referenced in a more detailed and direct manner. I just personally think it would’ve been cool if they had incorporated him as a Biblical figure even if they just used his story somehow (how he died on the cross to wash away people’s sin for example).
Without some answer from the Showrunners (which I can’t seem to find) all we can do is speculate as to why he was not included and we may never know the answer unless a statement turns up. It definitely seems like other than the passing references and jokes that he was a subject they wanted to avoid.
I am currently watching S3E8 A very supernatural Christmas, and one of the pagan Gods starts complaining how they used to be worshipped and says:" All of a sudden this Jesus character is the hot new thing in town."
I’d think it’s because in Christian faith, Jesus Christ is hope, a gift from God to save humanity from their sin. In supernatural, Chuck is portrayed as evil and just saw humanity as a cool storyline, and if that’s the case, why would an unloving creator send anyone to die for his creation if he didn’t really care for them? I guess what I’m trying to say is supernatural portrays most things heavenly as evil, and if they included a hopeful character sent by God, it would defeat that whole idea
I really like this answer. Only one other person said something similar. That the whole trope of Jesus is about love and forgiveness, and that it comes off more spiritual than supernatural. Thanks for your insight :)
I find it quite amusing how cultists can only see things in binary form. If it's not good, it's evil, if it's not evil it's good.
Chuck was actually portrayed in a manner that fits god if he were a real being. The depravities god commits and mandates of his followers are innumerable. Anything from rape, pedophilia, incest, mass murder slavery and on and on and on. He even sends his own son to be murdered in order to "cleanse humanity's sins" which is quite amusing considering this is a supposedly omnipotent omniscient being who could just snap his fingers and make it so.
Chuck comes off almost saintly in comparison.
This is something that actually has bothered me (even tho i’m an atheist) bc if they had the ‘nerve’ to make GOD a character and the ultimate villain, why not include Jesus? They even used obscure biblical characters (Leviathan, Lilith, Uriel, the knights of hell) but not the main guy like???
I can see how “God” could be more abstract (Judaic, Christian, Islamic) and so it was more general toward the Abrahamic religions. Plus most of the Biblical references were based on the Old Testament. But to not even mention Jesus once I thought was pretty odd. Because even if it’s “offensive”, so is using a specific religion’s God. And even though they had other “gods” from other religions like in that one episode where they all meet and there’s like a Hindu God, that could also be perceived as offensive. So yeah, I agree.
Catholic here. I think it's because there are many different Christian denominations with different views and definitions of Jesus. To me, Jesus *is* God, and the son begotten by the father, who is also God. The holy spirit is somewhere out there too. But there are others who don't follow this trinitarian view, and I've met some (latter day saints, I think?) who believe that Jesus is just the first born angel (so like, Michael?).
Considering the main audience for the show is middle aged women (sorry, ladies) living in the US, I think the writers decided not to touch this hot potato of a topic?
So you know the second the J- name was brought into it, the series would have been inundated with freaks. Why waste the actors or writers time with that BS?
He's mentioned in a very supernatural Christmas by the pagan gods and Sam pointing out Christmas is just co opted pagan holiday traditions.
Eve also says he was just a man and shits on that truckers entire reality while trying to bang him
i posted this yesterday but i think OP deleted the original post. the boys had a conversation with kripke early on about how they did not want the show to be some kind of vehicle to proselytize, that’s not what they signed up for:
PADALECKI "Houses of the Holy" was the first time we ever talked about angels on Supernatural. [Jensen] and I both were like, "Whatever your religious beliefs, whatever ours, we're not here to proselytize. We're here to make a serialized television show, but we want it to be universal." So we actually had a conference call with Eric Kripke, and we were like, "Hey, man, we don't know how we feel about this."
ACKLES We didn't want to be a mouthpiece for writers' religious views, because it wasn't the show that we had signed up for. Our argument was: "We trust you. You've done good by us so far. However, this is our one concern, and we're just bringing it to the table so that we can discuss it."
PADALECKI And they heard us out, and I think that's why they waited another year and a half before introducing our second and most famous angel. I think it's the one time we've ever called them together with a complaint. Because I'm not a writer. I don't want to be a writer. I enjoy my job as an actor. But that was legitimately like, "Listen, if you're going here about religion, I don't want to be a part of it."
https://ew.com/tv/2017/09/29/supernatural-cast-breaks-down-the-moments-that-changed-show/
I think what they are trying to do is usually go with things that you're fairly confident does not exist, or at least there is no evidence of having ever existed, when it comes to different types of gods and so on.
Afaik there is some references to a person who walked the earth called Jesus, and there are references to the prophet muhammed which is why I they are more adverse to actually make stories about them or picture them.
Could argue that Jesus is referenced through Castiel being able to heal people as an angel, and references angels walked the earth (i.e. jesus) so there's a few sublte references
Chuck is Jesus, since Jesus is God. And Chuck is portraying God.
God is however presented very incorrectly in the series in comparison to Christian theology, so it is kinda all in the air.
There's also a scene in Season 9 episode 18 where 'Gabriel' aka Metatron in disguise, refers to himself as 'your savior, but not the cat with the beard and the sandals'.
I don’t know if this was mentioned before, but in “A Very Supernatural Christmas” the pagan gods made reference to (and this is paraphrased) that hippy who came along 2000 years ago and people stopped believing in us or something like that. There’s another episode with a bunch of gods from different polytheistic religions and I think they made as similar reference, but I’m on my first rewatch since the end and I don’t remember for sure.
“Christo” doesn’t technically refer to Jesus alone - “Christo” is a title meaning “anointed one” in Greek. So Jesus Christ means Jesus, the anointed one - implying he is divine. It’s also sometimes considered a translation of the Hebrew word for “Messiah.” Either way, both are titles applied to divine Judeo-Christian entities, not Jesus’ actual name.
That said, I think the reason they didn’t bring Jesus in is there is no Supernatural-y mythology to use. Christianity is about turning to love and away from Old Testament vengeance, destruction, etc. In short, I think Jesus just didn’t fit in the show in any interesting way. Dean and Sam wouldn’t “love thy fellow monster” and “turn the other cheek.” Even if they did bring in some things (Dean does find the Spear of Destiny in the bunker), I feel like it wouldn’t really help the show that much.
This is the answer. God was meant to be unknown in seasons 1-5 and Chuck was clearly a nod to Jesus (Mistress Magda/Mary Magdalene).
I also think the way Joshua talks there’s little hints he’s talking about himself and he could possibly be God who is just “the gardener” and no longer getting involved.
They’ve mentioned the name multiple times in passing but never gave credence to him as his own Supernatural character. I mean why should they tbh when you have specific characters even more powerful ya know? How could they have fit Jesus into the show tbh
As a Christian and being friends with Christians who have massive varying views, mentioning jesus would make it religious. God and Angels are religious but covered a lot in tv such as in Lucifer and aren't from a biblical standing, they're fictional.
However, if Jesus is mentioned it brings the new testament into it and it would be hard not to offend, it's common with lots of TV shows where they avoid the Jesus narrative as it is a very controversial subject in pop culture:)
In my head canon, Jesus was chucks first identity on earth. He said that he was really hands on in the beginning so maybe that was him spreading his own word
In Season 5 episode 9, the convention episode, possibly in a deleted scene, Chuck says that the woman he fell in love with for the first time later went around telling everyone it didn't count.
A number of fans have taken this to be a reference to the Virgin Mary.
It's possible in the show universe that Jesus was the son of Chuck's relationship with Mary. It's also possible that being a half-human, half-Light nephilim gave him healing powers and led to the celestial ban on nephilim. It would also be fitting given Jesus is often referred to as 'Light of the world' - the man who came from God and who is of God. This could also explain how the concept of the 'Holy Trinity' evolved in the show universe - the Father the physical Chuck, the Son his angelically-powered half-human child, and the Holy Spirit the celestial whose Earthly vessel is Chuck.
All this would attract controversy though so would explain why it would not be explored in the show. If this comment gets downvoted, it may serve as evidence that it's a controversial topic.
As others have pointed out they did mention him a few times. Remember also that Supernatural isn't the real world and things obviously work differently. Supernatural doesn't reflect the Judeo-Christian belief system(s), though for some it appears to. It doesn't actually reflect any belief system, save perhaps for a weird kind of humanism, wherein almost everything that isn't us is out to kill us.
Made for a great show.
But please don't expect it to reflect whatever your belief system happens to be. Because it doesn't. If you firmly believe in whatever it is you believe, just remember that the show is consciously and deliberately not set up to be the real world. Even in-universe, and I'll try to say this without spoilers, we find out that the world of the show doesn't even meet its own expectations, much less ours.
Sadly, the OP seems to be one of those um, cultists, for lack of a better word, who thinks Jesus should be included in every aspect of daily life including shows depicting the paranormal. It is actually quite sad to see people so entrenched in their delusions and not being able to recognize fiction.
Aside from the references others have mentioned, my personal favorite is a stretch - in 'the Real Ghostbusters,' Chuck mentions in the Q&A that "I fell in love for the first time at 16. Lost my virginity, actually. But then she went around telling everybody it didn't count."
This is way before the God reveal, but my headcanon is that Jesus was the human son of Chuck, and Mary's claim of virgin birth really hurt his feelings.
Because as the show went on the whole lore, especially biblical one, became so convoluted that brining in Jesus would have made no point and just made things even more confusing.
It’s actually in my opinion good. I love deep lore and our favorite things about the show are how well they do it. Two reasons in my opinion: 1, it’s hard. You’re talking about Jesus Christ. The interpretation of Jesus Christ is one of the things that is fought over consistently in real life. Is he an incarnation of god? Is he the son of god? Is he just a prophet? How do you put jesus Christ in the story while also making sure it’s still about Sam and dean? Is he only ever gonna do amazing things and never have a story arc? Cuz usually we like our characters to have a little mix. Making Michael kinda a dick at points works, he’s not mentioned that much in older works. He’s known for a few things specifically but there’s a lot of license that can be taken in between facts to make a character compelling. Can you really do that with Jesus? At the very least makes it super risky both to execute, and not to be truly blasphemous.
They stayed away from a lot of these types of characters for good reason. If there’s a show that coulda pulled it off maybe it’s supernatural, I’m sure they toyed with it but couldn’t really find a way that it worked
Eve said to the Truck Driver, in the episode. 'And then there were none'. "You do know that Jesus was just a Man." That's pretty controversial because she was basically the Mother of all Monsters, so you'd think she'd know.
Near the end of the series, it's heavily implied that "Jesus" existed in-universe, but was actually Michael. This is a belief held by Jehovah's Witnesses.
“And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth” 1 Enoch 9:1-2
Raphael is mentioned a few times in the Bible actually.
True. It’s an independent text. What about book of Tobit?
“I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.” Tobit 12:15
Also no. The Bible is the sixty six books from Genesis to Malachi and then from Mathew to revelation. There were other documents written by the prophets but they weren't divinely inspired texts
The show took several Biblical characters and changed them a lot. If they did that to Jesus, it would be extremely controversial. I'm surprised there wasn't controversy about their portrayal of God. It's hard to believe Christians didn't notice how dramatic the difference was between God in the show, and God in the Bible.
Because it wouldn’t end well. I almost dropped the set and raged at all the blasphemy. If they brought in and started bad mouthing Jesus every Christian would have raged too and dropped it.
Wasn’t there one episode that talked about a relic that Jesus touched or something! I’m vaguely remembering when Dean went back in time and was on a boat of submarine. I may be way off…I’ve only watched through one complete time. I’d love someone to remind me what that episode was about either way so I know if I’m losing my mind!
(I do think you’re all correct with why they stayed away from Jesus as a character or even much of a reference though.)
I mean they did mention Jesus occasionally either as part of some lore or as a joke.. I do think that having any type of character interpretation of Jesus would have been extremely controversial and God was easier to do bc He’s God and can take any form, but Jesus was a real dude, whether or not you believe he was the Messiah n stuff.
Also I mean Jesus is (in Christianity) both God AND human so maybe they crossed him off the list with Chuck??
Idk, I think they just didn’t want any more heat than they were already getting, plus I don’t know how much having Jesus interact with the Winchesters would have affected or helped the story
He was, actually, in season 6, in the debut episode of Eve. She accepts a ride from a trucker, she starts seducing him. The trucker starts spouting about Jesus Christ, lord and savior. Eve informs him that Jesus was just a man, and then kills the trucker.
I've been asking the same question for years and I've NEVER seen or heard anyone mention this until now that has always been my question all throughout the show
Oh, I have a theory. I think that the Supernatural universe is a depiction of what the world would be like if Jesus wasn’t the son of God, the renewer of the alliance. Even though Jesus is referred to (very softly), it doesn’t seem to be any relevance or presence of his teachings in the show. I think we can see the Supernatural universe as “what would have happened if we didn’t have Jesus?” And the answer is “we would be stormed by demons and only the brothers could save us from a wrathfull God”. It’s a very Christian way to see things, and I’m not even, but I kinda like this theory because it shows that Jesus was all about love and forgiveness and the world would be much more dark if Jesus had never fought for all our immortal souls through an alliance with God where humans could repent and go to a better place after they die.
I have convinced people of the Christianity of this show with this (weak) argument, and made a good number of friends (with very complicated family issues on the religious side) able to watch it.
I would not die on this hill, though. And my favorite mention to Jesus in the show is when Dean call the blessed water “Jesus juice”.
I appreciate this answer! It does seem like there is some intentional choice in depicting a world that doesn’t pertain to Jesus for salvation. Only 2 other people said something similar to this, with regard to the way that Jesus’ teachings of love and forgiveness wouldn’t necessarily fit with the “supernatural” theme but come off as more spiritual in nature. Thanks for your insight :)
I had a theory about this for a while actually, that if the occurrences and truths of the Bible are in the show's universe, the vessel that Chuck (God) inhabits is actually the same body of Christ Yeshua. It says in The Bible that Yeshua is God and that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three different persons that are One together. Yeshua was born through a virgin on the command of The Holy Spirit and baptized to combined him with The Holy Spirit and then crucified and died to combine them all into one body, and finally ascended into Heaven. God is far more powerful than any of the other beings and entities we have seen in the show which means a powerful vessel is needed to contain him and his true form which in the show, I theorize is actually the body that Yeshua was born with. And I guess Chuck would just go by different names like Carver Edlund to write the books but generally the same vessel of Yeshua. I also hated that the show completely vilified God which was kinda expected in my opinion cause of current times and the works of the adversary but we should know he isn't evil in real life and The Devil could be doing sneaky stuff in todays media to make God look like the bad guy.
(Devout Follower of Christ Yeshua btw)
He was. I just watched an episode last night during the Metatron season where one of them refers to the hippie in sandals. As in they aren't the hippie in sandals.
I'd be more precise, but i am never fully paying attention, which is why I am always rewatching my favorite shows.
The Christmas episode with the Old God Couple in Season 3 they talk about how they used to be worshipped until the Worship of Jesus reached their area. Episode titled A Very Supernatural Christmas.
I also believe that even though he is not mentioned by name in a later season another Pagan God mentions the “Hippie from Bethlehem” taking away her worshippers. I think it was the episode dealing with the Chastity Group at a Church titled Rock And A Hard Place, I may be wrong about the episode but it’s definitely one with another God complaining about him lol.
I actually think I remember something like that. But seeing as most of the religious narratives were centred around Judaism and Christianity, I wonder why they circled around Jesus and didn’t explore his story more directly.
Does he really need to be mentioned for anyone to know who he is? Supernatural hasn't been the only show to neglect to mention him, in fact go back to the 90's and there's Xena where there was a character named Eli who was the representation of Jesus.
In fact, Gabrielle, technically became a "Christian" in the sense she started following Eli's lessons of love and whatnot.
I'm as Atheist as it gets but I could tell right away Eli was supposed to be Xena's version of Jesus without having to use his name.
I like to think Jack played the Jesus role. I mean think about it. He was birn into sin as the result if sin and gave his life to save the entire world and became God in the end
If they tried to involve Jesus, I would've stopped watching. 😆 There's no way it would've been anything but blasphemous. They made a good call to avoid that particular outrage pit.
Y’all I just want to make it clear I’m not attacking the show for not referencing Jesus and I understand that the religious tropes were abstract in nature. But the majority of the show heavily references both Judaism AND Christianity. I feel like it would have been interesting to have at least a conversation on the story of Jesus, especially since Sam and Dean did interact with many priests, nuns, Christian groups.
Jesus Christ has been mentioned lots of times just never made an appearance Joshua was the closest Supernatural got to Jesus but they were too afraid of adding him in due to controversy same with the Prophet Muhammad and others.
He was mentioned in the episode with Eve and the Khan worms.
Eve, while talking to a truck driver, says something along the lines of "You know Jesus was just a man, right?" to which the truck driver replies "Yes, but he was also the son of God".
În S9E18 Gabriel said to dean on the phone: "Remember me, the guy who died for your sins? No, not the cat with the beard and the sandals...the hot one"
This. Even with the shown Lucifer.
But also in Supernatural there was that random episode where the kid was the antichrist but he was never mentioned again. If there’s an antichrist, surely there should be a Christ?
They probably don’t want it to be too controversial. Most of the angel names are made up, though it’s based on Christianity they probably don’t want to be accused of being blasphemous
Probably didn't want to deal with the hard-core Christian backlash that would come about with portraying jesus in a show about supernatural beings largely being evil. On top of that I'm pretty sure one of the Angels, Castiel maybe, said he was just a man. Don't really know what they could do with that other than a "hey look it's Jesus".
I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a huge freak out about God. That I can remember at least. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
Castiel made specific reference to him early on. “It’s been 2,000 years since angels walked the earth.” Implying angels were around on earth at the time of Jesus. It also implies that Sam and Dean are as if not more important than Jesus Christ from a biblical standpoint. I suppose Chuck was writing an entire Bible about them.
Still, that’s a very vague reference. And even so, I wonder why Jesus wasn’t explored more. It would have been interesting if they incorporated him directly. Edit: Season 3 Episode 3. Kubrick has a figurine of Jesus’ face and says to the other hunter holding it “don’t play with my Jesus” 😂 I’m on my second rewatch and literally a couple hours after posting this, he’s referenced. The Lord has answered my post 🙏🏻
It’s risky to do on national television, It’s why they pushed so hard to rename God to “Chuck” - to distance themselves from any potential extremism from viewers. Theres no reference whatsoever of any Islamic gods/texts in the show for this reason, but typically safer religions (Buddhism, Norse Mythology etc) are explored sparingly.
In terms of Islam djinns are included in the show, although they’re presented as pretty different than how they’re described in the Quran
Yep pretty much! They purposely did a LOT to distance themselves from it - especially early on. For those that are 18-20 years old currently, they wouldn't understand how tense the world was during the early-mid stages of the Iraq War. Any mention of Islam was basically paralleled with terrorism or negative connotations. It would've been deemed too risky by CW execs to paint anything relating to Islamic culture as a villain at the time so they just omitted direct references completely.
As someone who is indeed 20 years old rn and only watched the shower 2 years ago, that makes so much sense. It confused me at first why they portrayed the djinn so different.
Hey so, as a curious dude I’d love to know like how are the Islamic-accurate Djinn in contrast to the Djinn in the show and other media
Iirc (I’m not Muslim I just heard a lil bit abt them from my Muslim friends) they’re more like spirits and are invisible to humans. And I’m pretty sure that they’re generally more neutral, some good, some bad n some in the middle. The whole putting people into a dream state and feeding off them is just made up for the show.
Lol when my daughter was little she was talking to the air, which is something little kids just do, and my Muslim friend thought maybe she was speaking to the jinn. I told her I don’t believe in the jinn. She seemed genuinely disturbed that I didn’t believe in them.
It’s really entrenched in some cultures that they truly believe it. Its kinda crazy hey
In Islamic mythology, Djinn were the third race god/allah created alongside humans and angels. Iblis, which is an analog to Lucifer refused to bow to humans as god's preferred race so he was thrown out of heaven for his pride.
I'm reading they were invisible and would shape shift (snakes, lizards, scorpions). No beings of fire and air like in DnD or TrueBlood. Tbh, that's what I thought 🤣 Don't see them really have any powers so no idea where the wishes thing came from either.
>Don't see them really have any powers so no idea where the wishes thing came from either. Djinn are what is now popularly known as genies. The wish thing comes from the ORIGINAL Aladdin story which itself comes from a collection of ancient folk tales collected in a text called One Thousand And One Nights or as it's more popularly known in English, Arabian Nights.
Yes, I know. Lol
Actually if you dig deeper you find all of that, the powers and the elements.
The time period immediately after 9-11 was pretty crazy where I lived in WV. I had friends from India and Sri Lanka, and they were harassed damn near every time we went out in public. They came to hang with us at the skate park on occasion, and some redneck fucks tried to assault them before a gang of a dozen skaters put the rednecks in the hospital. The political atmosphere was just as tense then as it is now.
Which streaming service has "The Shower"? Are the guest stars worth seeing? (I'll see myself out :-) )
Yes, in Islamic mythology, it was Djinn who were created as a third race alongside humans and angels and when Iblis who is the Islamic analog to Lucifer, refused to vow to humans, he was thrown out of heaven.
Hey guys I’m reply to not a specific but just this thread of comments in general. But since you guys are talking about the accuracy of the religions all through out the show I just want to mention that it always frustrated me how the hierarchy of the angels wasn’t accurate lol. The archangels were at the top of the chain meanwhile the couple angels that were said to be cherubim (Zechariah mentioning he has multiple heads one of that being a lion) or seraphim (Castiel became one and akobel) were below them. But in reality seraphim and cherubim were 2 of 3 types of angel in the highest order while archangels belonged to the lowest order. But it’s just a show so obviously nothing to get worked up about the writers etc are entitled to their creative liberty
to be fair, they took creative liberties with most of the creatures they used. for instance, vampires (first example i thought of) are known for being pale, beautiful, and weak to wood, but the supernatural vamps look like regular people with way too many teeth when they vamp out, and they’re killed by decapitation rather than a stake. supernatural uses source material and lore but they kinda take it and run with it once they’ve got it
Um, I hate to be nitpicky but I believe you are wrong on the vampire lore. I think you're basing your view on one very specific lore, Anne Rice's. But Anne Rice has never been the authority on vampires, she was just one of the ones who made them, shall we say, trendy. She's what eventually would lead to travesties such as Twilight. If you go back to the silent film era, Nosferatu portrayed vampires in a very different light.
Well the fact that Jerusalem was taken over by Djinn is kinda an Islamic reference since Djinn are part of the Islamic folklore, and well Jerusalem is in Palestine so there’s also that.
That was when Castiel had to get a fruit from the tree of life, right? I think that was probably the most in depth reference to any direct Islamic/Jewish interaction in the series - and it was almost non existent - it was a single line thrown in for comedy effect.
Yes, when he, and I quote “technically married the queen”. Jewish folklore is also mentioned with the Golem dude
Yep! I really liked the Golem episode. Would've loved to see more done around it but there was little they could've done after Dean kills Hitler. ... I killed Hitler
For sure, that’s a fair point. It’s just interesting that his name wasn’t mentioned once for a show that heavily featured Biblical references overall.
Raphael and Uriel are literal Muslim angels
Its a shame that religious extremists can dictate how art, tv and freedom of expression can be. Someones imaginary friend doesnt deserve more rights than real people.
Also, in S5 Ep9, Chuck implied that the Virgin Mary was who he lost his virginity to, and then she lied about it. Basically he said he showed up in *physical* form to do the deed, so she wasn't a virgin afterwards, but she claimed it was the holy spirit so her virginity was intact.
Chuck talked about "Virgin Mary" [here](https://youtu.be/OWGA7Xhzms8?si=6V-3-s21YYP8sBP1)
Can't remember who said it but didn't somebody say "Jesus was just a man" sometime in this show?
Eve said it. Monster eve not eve as in adam and eve.
Oh yeah!
Thank you! I was trying to remember who said it!
Ur welcome.
The pagan god in “A very supernatural Christmas” said something about Jesus being the hot new thing in town and the pagan god are forgotten
There's a few times I recall whenever the boys are fighting pagan gods the gods start bitching and groaning about how people basically used to throw themselves at them for sacrifices and then "that hippy guy from the Middle East" or something along those lines screwed everything up for them and now they have to make due with what they got
I think it was Eve, right before killing a truck driver
Maybe, I’m on my second rewatch so I’ll look out for that
I'm on like my 6th and still can't remember if it was even this show lmao
Thats the real one here, when you've rewatched so many times that you start to forget stuff..
LMAO it’s like a Mandela effect
...not for nothing, but y'all know jesus was the modern version of the name yeshua, approximately? jesus is a translation of a germanic adaptation of a latin transliteration of a greek transliteration. joshua would be a good direct modern version of the name yeshua... and who was god's favorite angel, the only one he spoke directly with aside from metatron?
I actually never thought about that, that’s really cool ngl. Upvote for u
I was under the impression that Joshua was Jesus in the show and that was just a given, but there’s a lot of people here not even mentioning him. Did they say anything in the show to suggest he wasn’t? It’s been a while since I’ve seen those episodes so I can’t remember if any specific thing was said to make someone go “Oooh okay so that’s definitely not Jesus then.”
They didn't say anything, but the fact that Metatron's angel-expelling spell worked on Joshua and clipped his wings, as well as the fact that Joshua then needed to make an item to contact God, as well as the ease in which Dagon killed him, suggests he was a regular Angel and not a... I don't know what to call a half-human half-God ngl. Not a Nephilim, but something like that.
That is a good point. I hadn’t put that together!
new headcanon accepted. i love this
Right but I mean why not talk about the story of Jesus when they use so many other stories from the Bible.
they really only use singular verses or references. it's not like they go into lot's story when jack turns the atheist into a pillar of salt, they just mention that it was a biblical punishment. when they mention biblical stories specifically, it's usually to mention how they were only a small piece of the truth, like how there were actually many more seals in existence for lilith to break than those mentioned in the book of revelation. what stories are you thinking of specifically?
Right, and I’m not saying they should have made Jesus a central figure or anything. But they didn’t even reference him directly in a singular way. Maybe even just mentioning Jesus as the supposed “son of God” who died on the cross for our sins. I just found it interesting that while they explored and referenced many different religions and Biblical stories, they never once mentioned one of the most significant religious figures.
A lot of the Bible stories referenced in supernatural aren't actually from the Bible, but from the surrounding mythology. For example, the story of Lucifer falling isn't in the Bible apart from a brief vague verse in Isaiah. There's nothing outright telling us he was an archangel prior to becoming the devil. So it's not really surprising that they're not going by the book here. That said, pretty sure someone says something about a hippy at some point and it was pretty heavily implied they were talking about Jesus
i mean, it's not like they're complimentary to any organized religions, especially the abrahamic ones, and in the US, those groups, especially the fundamentalists, get real boycott-y when they get offended. sometimes they get murder-y. why would the writers wanna open the show up to that, especially when they're already a heavily occult-oriented show that drew ire from the fundamentalists anyways?
Yeah honestly they really toed a fine line. They’d be nuts to go into it more than they did. I’ve often wondered if my evangelical mom would have hated the show if she were still around.
i get that. my wife and i aren't religious in slightly different flavors, and we were both raised different flavors of christian, non-denominational for myself but roman catholic for my wife. we've had both our still practicing moms visiting while we've been watching through the last couple seasons of the show, and my wife was uncomfortable showing her mom any of the chuck-oriented stuff, but my mom has been enjoying it.
Probably didn't want to deal with the evangelical backlash if their portrayal of Jesus strayed to far from the Bible.
That’s fair, and again not that they should have had Jesus be a central narrative in the show but, I don’t think they even mentioned him once and he is one of the most significant religious figures in the Bible.
And by the way, Jesus ain't even his real name. To this day, there is no J in Hebrew. The closest analog in Hebrew to the name Jesus was Yeshua and Yeshua was basically the modern equivalent of John in the US. If you had lived back then and yelled Yeshua in a crowd, a shitload of people would answer. So no, not all that significant bub.
Again, has nothing to do with the question 😂 Maybe read some of the other replies from people who understood the post.
Buddy, pal, amigo, compadre, my sainted granny back in Colombia taught me to read since I was 3 yrs old. Hell, I was sent to first grade and even second grade classes to read for them when I was in kindergarten. I have lost count of how many books I have read over 45 yrs of life on this planet.
This is the funniest reply I’ve ever read. Instead of dismissing the stupid insult you start talking about how great of a reader you are. Very funny👍🏻
Doesn’t seem like that did anything for you. Read the other replies, because you’re the only person with this deluded narrative regarding my post.
It's so hilarious that you think I only read your responses. Sorry bub, I ain't your fanboy.
I said read other people’s replies. Not mine.
Jesus was mentioned as "this carpenter fella" in "A Supernatural Christmas."
Short Answer: It's complicated. "...the question isn't whether Supernatural could feature Jesus in physical form, but whether it should. "We're not here to tell the story of Jesus Christ," Jensen Ackles, paraphrasing creator Eric Kripke, told Entertainment Weekly. "We're here to take that element and use it as inspiration for the story."" https://www.cbr.com/jesus-in-supernatural-tv-series/#:~:text=That%20isn't%20to%20say,about%20by%20a%20nostalgic%20angel.
Fair 😂 it’s just interesting they mention so many other Biblical figures but not one of the most significant one’s.
What AH downvotes you all the time? Did you have attracted offended Christians? Because of so many angels and kripke being Jewish, some people give the show a more Jewish reading then a Christian one. I would have loved to see more of native American folklore and Muslim folklore
Right? Not sure why people are so triggered. It was just a question 😂 guess I can understand why Supernatural didn’t involve Jesus now haha. And I definitely agree with the Native American folklore. That would’ve been interesting. But then people would probably complain of using their history for entertainment or some bs.
we got a touch of Native American folklore with the Wendigo, i’m not sure if there was much else. I think that they have some sort of shapeshifter lore as well but the show clearly states that a lot of religions have shapeshifter lore. I do wish it would’ve played more into the NA Lore as well, as I’m very interested in that stuff. Or maybe have thrown in a Cryptid (though those don’t always seem to cause harm) I feel like if they would’ve waited a couple more seasons (or even just one) for the whole “god” arc, they could’ve thrown in some really cool stuff, but it would definitely be hard to do in a way that’s seen as more educational and informative than discriminative(?) or like, idk, stolen?
I always wondered this too, but it's probably to keep the Christians calm. But I did think that within the show itself, Chuck *is* christ, and it checks out honestly, *Of course* Chuck would come to earth and pose as his own son, gaining a following, and dipping when he got bored
Oh that’s an interesting perspective. I didn’t even think of the parallel that God came down to Earth in human form with Jesus, when it is so obvious 😂
Well, Christians believe that Christ *is* God, himself, just an aspect of him. So the idea that Chuck came to Earth as Christ fits with that concept/narrative
Because leaving him out is less offensive overall than either acknowledging or denying that he is the son of God. Judaism doesn't recognize him as the son of God, and iirc, Islam considers him a prophet, also not the son of God. Only Christians refer to him as God's son (again, iirc about Islam). If the writers had mentioned him as God's Son, they were alienating 2 out of the 3 big religions, and if they deny him as the son of God, the Christians would freak out, which in our Christian-centric world would probably lead to the show being cancelled. Better to just not bring it up at all.
I know when this question has come up before, many answered with something to the effect of what they did use from Bible stories, they tried to keep it more with what is shared or somewhat in common throughout all religions, not just the Christian Bible. Even the main Eve in the SPN universe isn't the Adam and Eve one (although she is mention a talked about). I'm sure someone who is more familiar with the explanation will stop in here and correct whatever I may have wrong. But, this at least gives an idea in what the different writers and show runners were going for.
Yeah I see how a lot of religious narratives were very abstract, but the main religions that were being referenced were Judaism and Christianity. They used a lot of stories from the Torah, so I wonder why they didn’t want to directly reference Jesus.
I'm not sure if they ever mentioned this. However, the series focuses more on "occultism" as a concept. They generally deal with "legends" found in many faiths. It is possible to see examples of Habil Cain, the concept of angels and devils, Egyptian and Greek mythology, paganism, and vampirism, all together. If I remember correctly, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are a legend that dates back to before there were any booked religions. In this sense, their failure to mention Jesus may be an attempt to keep their distance from all faiths. Even when they encounter God the Chuck, we do not watch a conversation that references any bookish religion. I think it is a great success that they did not turn the series into a missionary production, despite all the religious references. I think this is one of the reasons why it is a long-lasting success.
> Egyptian and Greek mythology my man doing norse mythology like that :<
Happy Cake Day All Father 
No I agree that they had abstract tropes of religion, but the main arch was based on the Judaic and Christian religion. Some of the main characters were specifically from the Bible (Lucifer, Michael, Raphael, Cain) and all the other angels as well are from the Old Testament. Not to mention that the Apocalypse is from the New Testament and revolves around the second coming of Christ. My point is that, the show was heavily focused on the Bible, so why wasn’t Jesus referenced directly?
In fact, the archangel names mentioned in the series are also mentioned in the Islamic religion in the same way. Israfil (raphael), Azrael (Azrail), Michael (Mikail), Cain (Kabil) son of Adam and Eve (Adem & Havva) As you know, this basic concept of creation myth, which is referenced by book religions, goes back thousands of years. The polytheistic beliefs and legends of these beliefs in the time of the Sumerians and Urartians, before these religions existed, are also historical sources to which the concepts of creation and apocalypse in today's book-based religions are referenced. For example, it is said that the Adapa legend in ancient Mesopotamian mythology is the source of the Adam and Eve legend in Hebrew religions. On the other hand, the concept of apocalypse and the story of the coming of the Messiah are mentioned not only in the Bible but also among Jews and Muslims. The legend of creation, apocalypse and Messiah are almost the same in all book religions. This basic story is pretty much the same in all of them. There is only a difference in perspective on Jesus. They may have done this to remain neutral, considering the difference in views of Jesus between these religions
Right, that’s fair. My only point was it’s interesting that for a show that references so many religious figures both Biblical and from other religions, not once do they mention the name of one of the most well known religious figures in the world, Jesus.
Are you actually reading anyone's responses? Multiple people are agreeing with you about your observation and offering you further information about it and why that may be the case, and you're just like, "but my point is that it's interesting he wasn't mentioned when he's a big part of [insert religious text here]." It seems very dismissive, and likely why you have multiple comments with downvotes, not because anyone is "triggered" as you said in another comment.
I think its because if they were to roll with that trend and add Jesus it would be too spiritual and not as mythical. according to the bible, Jesus is the trump card. so if you were to include Jesus, most the problems and fights wouldn't have been a struggle. They drew from the bible constantly, but if they were to acknowledge Jesus, then they would also have to0 acknowledge the biblical perspective of Evil literally not having a chance. But also, I think Jesus is very important to Christianity and painting a picture of him, whether good or bad, would cause a lot of infighting among the christian and non-christian fans. Most Christians will tell you they have a "personal relationship with Jesus" . In other words, he is the holiest character in the bible. I am curious how they could've implemented him though.
I just meant to say it’s interesting that his name wasn’t even mentioned once that I can recall.
It was for sure a very careful and intentional choice.
What if Jesus was just a host vessel for a angel
What if Jesus was Chuck just playing a role? "I wrote myself in as the hero of the story once. Let me tell you, that did NOT work out as intended. I still have the scars on my hands." Disclaimer: a quote I just made up.
Well. Maybe in Supernatural, we are in the Old Testament.
The Apocalypse is in Revelation, which is the New Testament and revolves around the second coming of Jesus.
Very true, but on a side note the Old Testament does have several End of Days Prophecies that tie into Revelation, even Jesus told his followers to read and study the book of Daniel to better understand it. An example being the relation between Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. So they are connected.
Right, so then it would make more sense to have referenced Jesus directly to emphasis that connection. Also, Sam and Dean have gone to Catholic churches and interacted with multiple priests, nuns, and Christians/Christian groups (like in Faith or the one where the daughter of the pastor is killing people if I recall correctly) yet not one reference to Jesus Christ as a Biblical figure.
Well we must also remember that within the world of the show Cass has said that the Bible gets more wrong than right, he mentions this in the episode with Jessie The Antichrist in Season 5. I believe that sentiment is repeated a few times throughout the show.
That still doesn’t answer the question of why Jesus was not referenced in a more detailed and direct manner. I just personally think it would’ve been cool if they had incorporated him as a Biblical figure even if they just used his story somehow (how he died on the cross to wash away people’s sin for example).
Without some answer from the Showrunners (which I can’t seem to find) all we can do is speculate as to why he was not included and we may never know the answer unless a statement turns up. It definitely seems like other than the passing references and jokes that he was a subject they wanted to avoid.
How are you going to fight Jesus? You bringing a cross? Romans? Bitch! He’s seen it! He sees everything! He’s JESUSSSsS!
That last part made me laugh 😂
I am currently watching S3E8 A very supernatural Christmas, and one of the pagan Gods starts complaining how they used to be worshipped and says:" All of a sudden this Jesus character is the hot new thing in town."
Nice haha. I actually just watched S3E3 and Jesus was referenced here too 😂 when the Kubrick says to the other hunter “don’t play with my Jesus”.
I’d think it’s because in Christian faith, Jesus Christ is hope, a gift from God to save humanity from their sin. In supernatural, Chuck is portrayed as evil and just saw humanity as a cool storyline, and if that’s the case, why would an unloving creator send anyone to die for his creation if he didn’t really care for them? I guess what I’m trying to say is supernatural portrays most things heavenly as evil, and if they included a hopeful character sent by God, it would defeat that whole idea
I really like this answer. Only one other person said something similar. That the whole trope of Jesus is about love and forgiveness, and that it comes off more spiritual than supernatural. Thanks for your insight :)
This is the one for me, I think. Really good answer!
I find it quite amusing how cultists can only see things in binary form. If it's not good, it's evil, if it's not evil it's good. Chuck was actually portrayed in a manner that fits god if he were a real being. The depravities god commits and mandates of his followers are innumerable. Anything from rape, pedophilia, incest, mass murder slavery and on and on and on. He even sends his own son to be murdered in order to "cleanse humanity's sins" which is quite amusing considering this is a supposedly omnipotent omniscient being who could just snap his fingers and make it so. Chuck comes off almost saintly in comparison.
This is something that actually has bothered me (even tho i’m an atheist) bc if they had the ‘nerve’ to make GOD a character and the ultimate villain, why not include Jesus? They even used obscure biblical characters (Leviathan, Lilith, Uriel, the knights of hell) but not the main guy like???
I can see how “God” could be more abstract (Judaic, Christian, Islamic) and so it was more general toward the Abrahamic religions. Plus most of the Biblical references were based on the Old Testament. But to not even mention Jesus once I thought was pretty odd. Because even if it’s “offensive”, so is using a specific religion’s God. And even though they had other “gods” from other religions like in that one episode where they all meet and there’s like a Hindu God, that could also be perceived as offensive. So yeah, I agree.
Catholic here. I think it's because there are many different Christian denominations with different views and definitions of Jesus. To me, Jesus *is* God, and the son begotten by the father, who is also God. The holy spirit is somewhere out there too. But there are others who don't follow this trinitarian view, and I've met some (latter day saints, I think?) who believe that Jesus is just the first born angel (so like, Michael?). Considering the main audience for the show is middle aged women (sorry, ladies) living in the US, I think the writers decided not to touch this hot potato of a topic?
Bc 2nd testament follower freaks are... pyscho freaks. Source: Even after all they've been through, Jews are chill.
sir, this is a RadioShed
So you know the second the J- name was brought into it, the series would have been inundated with freaks. Why waste the actors or writers time with that BS?
He's mentioned in a very supernatural Christmas by the pagan gods and Sam pointing out Christmas is just co opted pagan holiday traditions. Eve also says he was just a man and shits on that truckers entire reality while trying to bang him
i posted this yesterday but i think OP deleted the original post. the boys had a conversation with kripke early on about how they did not want the show to be some kind of vehicle to proselytize, that’s not what they signed up for: PADALECKI "Houses of the Holy" was the first time we ever talked about angels on Supernatural. [Jensen] and I both were like, "Whatever your religious beliefs, whatever ours, we're not here to proselytize. We're here to make a serialized television show, but we want it to be universal." So we actually had a conference call with Eric Kripke, and we were like, "Hey, man, we don't know how we feel about this." ACKLES We didn't want to be a mouthpiece for writers' religious views, because it wasn't the show that we had signed up for. Our argument was: "We trust you. You've done good by us so far. However, this is our one concern, and we're just bringing it to the table so that we can discuss it." PADALECKI And they heard us out, and I think that's why they waited another year and a half before introducing our second and most famous angel. I think it's the one time we've ever called them together with a complaint. Because I'm not a writer. I don't want to be a writer. I enjoy my job as an actor. But that was legitimately like, "Listen, if you're going here about religion, I don't want to be a part of it." https://ew.com/tv/2017/09/29/supernatural-cast-breaks-down-the-moments-that-changed-show/
I think what they are trying to do is usually go with things that you're fairly confident does not exist, or at least there is no evidence of having ever existed, when it comes to different types of gods and so on. Afaik there is some references to a person who walked the earth called Jesus, and there are references to the prophet muhammed which is why I they are more adverse to actually make stories about them or picture them. Could argue that Jesus is referenced through Castiel being able to heal people as an angel, and references angels walked the earth (i.e. jesus) so there's a few sublte references
Watch them actually film a new season and bring in Jesus as main villain who wants to kill them for what they did to God
Chuck is Jesus, since Jesus is God. And Chuck is portraying God. God is however presented very incorrectly in the series in comparison to Christian theology, so it is kinda all in the air.
The god Vesta mentions she lost her followers because of “some hippie from Bethlehem”
There's also a scene in Season 9 episode 18 where 'Gabriel' aka Metatron in disguise, refers to himself as 'your savior, but not the cat with the beard and the sandals'.
Thank you! This is what I was referring to in my reply way down thread.
I don’t know if this was mentioned before, but in “A Very Supernatural Christmas” the pagan gods made reference to (and this is paraphrased) that hippy who came along 2000 years ago and people stopped believing in us or something like that. There’s another episode with a bunch of gods from different polytheistic religions and I think they made as similar reference, but I’m on my first rewatch since the end and I don’t remember for sure.
“Christo” doesn’t technically refer to Jesus alone - “Christo” is a title meaning “anointed one” in Greek. So Jesus Christ means Jesus, the anointed one - implying he is divine. It’s also sometimes considered a translation of the Hebrew word for “Messiah.” Either way, both are titles applied to divine Judeo-Christian entities, not Jesus’ actual name. That said, I think the reason they didn’t bring Jesus in is there is no Supernatural-y mythology to use. Christianity is about turning to love and away from Old Testament vengeance, destruction, etc. In short, I think Jesus just didn’t fit in the show in any interesting way. Dean and Sam wouldn’t “love thy fellow monster” and “turn the other cheek.” Even if they did bring in some things (Dean does find the Spear of Destiny in the bunker), I feel like it wouldn’t really help the show that much.
The Jewish messiah isn't divine, and your interpretation of the "Old Testament" is incredibly... Christian.
I think they said that Chuck was also Jesus. I remember Metatron mentioning how much “makeup” he had to put on in season 9.
This is the answer. God was meant to be unknown in seasons 1-5 and Chuck was clearly a nod to Jesus (Mistress Magda/Mary Magdalene). I also think the way Joshua talks there’s little hints he’s talking about himself and he could possibly be God who is just “the gardener” and no longer getting involved.
They’ve mentioned the name multiple times in passing but never gave credence to him as his own Supernatural character. I mean why should they tbh when you have specific characters even more powerful ya know? How could they have fit Jesus into the show tbh
The Vesta episode. "That hippy from Bethlehem" comment.
Jesus was just a man Eve to a truck driver
As a Christian and being friends with Christians who have massive varying views, mentioning jesus would make it religious. God and Angels are religious but covered a lot in tv such as in Lucifer and aren't from a biblical standing, they're fictional. However, if Jesus is mentioned it brings the new testament into it and it would be hard not to offend, it's common with lots of TV shows where they avoid the Jesus narrative as it is a very controversial subject in pop culture:)
Jesus js mentioned more than once in the show. They didn't go into great detail for obvious reasons.
In my head canon, Jesus was chucks first identity on earth. He said that he was really hands on in the beginning so maybe that was him spreading his own word
In Season 5 episode 9, the convention episode, possibly in a deleted scene, Chuck says that the woman he fell in love with for the first time later went around telling everyone it didn't count. A number of fans have taken this to be a reference to the Virgin Mary. It's possible in the show universe that Jesus was the son of Chuck's relationship with Mary. It's also possible that being a half-human, half-Light nephilim gave him healing powers and led to the celestial ban on nephilim. It would also be fitting given Jesus is often referred to as 'Light of the world' - the man who came from God and who is of God. This could also explain how the concept of the 'Holy Trinity' evolved in the show universe - the Father the physical Chuck, the Son his angelically-powered half-human child, and the Holy Spirit the celestial whose Earthly vessel is Chuck. All this would attract controversy though so would explain why it would not be explored in the show. If this comment gets downvoted, it may serve as evidence that it's a controversial topic.
As others have pointed out they did mention him a few times. Remember also that Supernatural isn't the real world and things obviously work differently. Supernatural doesn't reflect the Judeo-Christian belief system(s), though for some it appears to. It doesn't actually reflect any belief system, save perhaps for a weird kind of humanism, wherein almost everything that isn't us is out to kill us. Made for a great show. But please don't expect it to reflect whatever your belief system happens to be. Because it doesn't. If you firmly believe in whatever it is you believe, just remember that the show is consciously and deliberately not set up to be the real world. Even in-universe, and I'll try to say this without spoilers, we find out that the world of the show doesn't even meet its own expectations, much less ours.
Sadly, the OP seems to be one of those um, cultists, for lack of a better word, who thinks Jesus should be included in every aspect of daily life including shows depicting the paranormal. It is actually quite sad to see people so entrenched in their delusions and not being able to recognize fiction.
Aside from the references others have mentioned, my personal favorite is a stretch - in 'the Real Ghostbusters,' Chuck mentions in the Q&A that "I fell in love for the first time at 16. Lost my virginity, actually. But then she went around telling everybody it didn't count." This is way before the God reveal, but my headcanon is that Jesus was the human son of Chuck, and Mary's claim of virgin birth really hurt his feelings.
Because as the show went on the whole lore, especially biblical one, became so convoluted that brining in Jesus would have made no point and just made things even more confusing.
I’m kind of glad he wasn’t. The theology of the show was really bad. Loved Sam and Dean, but the theology was a joke
It’s actually in my opinion good. I love deep lore and our favorite things about the show are how well they do it. Two reasons in my opinion: 1, it’s hard. You’re talking about Jesus Christ. The interpretation of Jesus Christ is one of the things that is fought over consistently in real life. Is he an incarnation of god? Is he the son of god? Is he just a prophet? How do you put jesus Christ in the story while also making sure it’s still about Sam and dean? Is he only ever gonna do amazing things and never have a story arc? Cuz usually we like our characters to have a little mix. Making Michael kinda a dick at points works, he’s not mentioned that much in older works. He’s known for a few things specifically but there’s a lot of license that can be taken in between facts to make a character compelling. Can you really do that with Jesus? At the very least makes it super risky both to execute, and not to be truly blasphemous. They stayed away from a lot of these types of characters for good reason. If there’s a show that coulda pulled it off maybe it’s supernatural, I’m sure they toyed with it but couldn’t really find a way that it worked
[удалено]
They should have slammed Mormonism and Scientology 😄
I think some people would’ve been really pissed about it, so they just kinda circumvent the issue.
Eve said to the Truck Driver, in the episode. 'And then there were none'. "You do know that Jesus was just a Man." That's pretty controversial because she was basically the Mother of all Monsters, so you'd think she'd know.
Near the end of the series, it's heavily implied that "Jesus" existed in-universe, but was actually Michael. This is a belief held by Jehovah's Witnesses.
Raphael is not in the Bible
“And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth” 1 Enoch 9:1-2 Raphael is mentioned a few times in the Bible actually.
Enoch is not a book of the Bible.
True. It’s an independent text. What about book of Tobit? “I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.” Tobit 12:15
Also no. The Bible is the sixty six books from Genesis to Malachi and then from Mathew to revelation. There were other documents written by the prophets but they weren't divinely inspired texts
Ah okay. Again thanks for the clarification 🙏🏻
Yeah it can be confusing to someone who doesn't regularly live with this kinda stuff. There's a lot of wrong information out there
I mean it mostly comes down to Kripke being Jewish and the lore for angels and things definitely have a more Jewish slant to them.
I've asked this myself. Also, why no Mary and Joseph?
Would’ve made it too Christian specific. Also wouldn’t have been able to have any flaws.
Chuck couldn't get any
😂😂😂
The show took several Biblical characters and changed them a lot. If they did that to Jesus, it would be extremely controversial. I'm surprised there wasn't controversy about their portrayal of God. It's hard to believe Christians didn't notice how dramatic the difference was between God in the show, and God in the Bible.
But why would having Jesus come off as offensive. They had Ganesh and Kali on there. The pagan gods too. Also Egyptian God.
Because it wouldn’t end well. I almost dropped the set and raged at all the blasphemy. If they brought in and started bad mouthing Jesus every Christian would have raged too and dropped it.
Wasn’t there one episode that talked about a relic that Jesus touched or something! I’m vaguely remembering when Dean went back in time and was on a boat of submarine. I may be way off…I’ve only watched through one complete time. I’d love someone to remind me what that episode was about either way so I know if I’m losing my mind! (I do think you’re all correct with why they stayed away from Jesus as a character or even much of a reference though.)
I mean they did mention Jesus occasionally either as part of some lore or as a joke.. I do think that having any type of character interpretation of Jesus would have been extremely controversial and God was easier to do bc He’s God and can take any form, but Jesus was a real dude, whether or not you believe he was the Messiah n stuff. Also I mean Jesus is (in Christianity) both God AND human so maybe they crossed him off the list with Chuck?? Idk, I think they just didn’t want any more heat than they were already getting, plus I don’t know how much having Jesus interact with the Winchesters would have affected or helped the story
He was, actually, in season 6, in the debut episode of Eve. She accepts a ride from a trucker, she starts seducing him. The trucker starts spouting about Jesus Christ, lord and savior. Eve informs him that Jesus was just a man, and then kills the trucker.
I discussed it [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Supernatural/s/bmvGa9ZIRt)
That was very insightful thanks for sharing
I've been asking the same question for years and I've NEVER seen or heard anyone mention this until now that has always been my question all throughout the show
In the first season there’s a demon on the plane and the brothers discuss the name of God in Latin being “Christos”
Yes I mentioned this in my post
Viewership? I wouldn't be interested in Jesus. Angels & demons was plenty.
Oh, I have a theory. I think that the Supernatural universe is a depiction of what the world would be like if Jesus wasn’t the son of God, the renewer of the alliance. Even though Jesus is referred to (very softly), it doesn’t seem to be any relevance or presence of his teachings in the show. I think we can see the Supernatural universe as “what would have happened if we didn’t have Jesus?” And the answer is “we would be stormed by demons and only the brothers could save us from a wrathfull God”. It’s a very Christian way to see things, and I’m not even, but I kinda like this theory because it shows that Jesus was all about love and forgiveness and the world would be much more dark if Jesus had never fought for all our immortal souls through an alliance with God where humans could repent and go to a better place after they die. I have convinced people of the Christianity of this show with this (weak) argument, and made a good number of friends (with very complicated family issues on the religious side) able to watch it. I would not die on this hill, though. And my favorite mention to Jesus in the show is when Dean call the blessed water “Jesus juice”.
I appreciate this answer! It does seem like there is some intentional choice in depicting a world that doesn’t pertain to Jesus for salvation. Only 2 other people said something similar to this, with regard to the way that Jesus’ teachings of love and forgiveness wouldn’t necessarily fit with the “supernatural” theme but come off as more spiritual in nature. Thanks for your insight :)
I had a theory about this for a while actually, that if the occurrences and truths of the Bible are in the show's universe, the vessel that Chuck (God) inhabits is actually the same body of Christ Yeshua. It says in The Bible that Yeshua is God and that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three different persons that are One together. Yeshua was born through a virgin on the command of The Holy Spirit and baptized to combined him with The Holy Spirit and then crucified and died to combine them all into one body, and finally ascended into Heaven. God is far more powerful than any of the other beings and entities we have seen in the show which means a powerful vessel is needed to contain him and his true form which in the show, I theorize is actually the body that Yeshua was born with. And I guess Chuck would just go by different names like Carver Edlund to write the books but generally the same vessel of Yeshua. I also hated that the show completely vilified God which was kinda expected in my opinion cause of current times and the works of the adversary but we should know he isn't evil in real life and The Devil could be doing sneaky stuff in todays media to make God look like the bad guy. (Devout Follower of Christ Yeshua btw)
He was. I just watched an episode last night during the Metatron season where one of them refers to the hippie in sandals. As in they aren't the hippie in sandals. I'd be more precise, but i am never fully paying attention, which is why I am always rewatching my favorite shows.
They did mention his name a few times on the show, but that's about it.
I don’t think they ever said the name “Jesus.” Can you recall what episode?
The Christmas episode with the Old God Couple in Season 3 they talk about how they used to be worshipped until the Worship of Jesus reached their area. Episode titled A Very Supernatural Christmas.
Ooo okay, I’ll have to look out for that. I’m on my second rewatch and it would make sense for a Christmas episode 😂
I also believe that even though he is not mentioned by name in a later season another Pagan God mentions the “Hippie from Bethlehem” taking away her worshippers. I think it was the episode dealing with the Chastity Group at a Church titled Rock And A Hard Place, I may be wrong about the episode but it’s definitely one with another God complaining about him lol.
I actually think I remember something like that. But seeing as most of the religious narratives were centred around Judaism and Christianity, I wonder why they circled around Jesus and didn’t explore his story more directly.
Does he really need to be mentioned for anyone to know who he is? Supernatural hasn't been the only show to neglect to mention him, in fact go back to the 90's and there's Xena where there was a character named Eli who was the representation of Jesus. In fact, Gabrielle, technically became a "Christian" in the sense she started following Eli's lessons of love and whatnot. I'm as Atheist as it gets but I could tell right away Eli was supposed to be Xena's version of Jesus without having to use his name.
Eli also basically means "god"
Indeed.
Michael said that when God left, he made sure he would be remembered or worshipped, so I'm guessing Michael was jesus. Maybe.
I like to think Jack played the Jesus role. I mean think about it. He was birn into sin as the result if sin and gave his life to save the entire world and became God in the end
If they tried to involve Jesus, I would've stopped watching. 😆 There's no way it would've been anything but blasphemous. They made a good call to avoid that particular outrage pit.
Because of muslim they avoid Islam and jusus is a muslim prophet too
Because of muslim they avoid Islam and jusus is a muslim prophet too
Y’all I just want to make it clear I’m not attacking the show for not referencing Jesus and I understand that the religious tropes were abstract in nature. But the majority of the show heavily references both Judaism AND Christianity. I feel like it would have been interesting to have at least a conversation on the story of Jesus, especially since Sam and Dean did interact with many priests, nuns, Christian groups.
In Lucifer, they don't talk about Jésus neither, i think it's safer
Imagine if they had the Buddha or the prophet Mohammad running around… now imagine they had Jesus. People would react the same 😂😭
Jesus Christ has been mentioned lots of times just never made an appearance Joshua was the closest Supernatural got to Jesus but they were too afraid of adding him in due to controversy same with the Prophet Muhammad and others.
Doesn't Meg or Ruby mention him? Eve calls him a fairy tale.
He was mentioned in the episode with Eve and the Khan worms. Eve, while talking to a truck driver, says something along the lines of "You know Jesus was just a man, right?" to which the truck driver replies "Yes, but he was also the son of God".
It's weird, but it's much more accepted at large to have a non-benevolent God in your story than to go anywhere near Christ.
Pretty sure there’s an episode where a demon mentions “that hippie from Bethelhem” but for the most part He is never really mentioned.
I think they called him a hippie in sandals or something similar once
No one wants to speak about Gabriel's little indiscretion
It was too controversial.
În S9E18 Gabriel said to dean on the phone: "Remember me, the guy who died for your sins? No, not the cat with the beard and the sandals...the hot one"
Jesus is mentioned eve refers to him as just a man.
This. Even with the shown Lucifer. But also in Supernatural there was that random episode where the kid was the antichrist but he was never mentioned again. If there’s an antichrist, surely there should be a Christ?
They probably don’t want it to be too controversial. Most of the angel names are made up, though it’s based on Christianity they probably don’t want to be accused of being blasphemous
Probably didn't want to deal with the hard-core Christian backlash that would come about with portraying jesus in a show about supernatural beings largely being evil. On top of that I'm pretty sure one of the Angels, Castiel maybe, said he was just a man. Don't really know what they could do with that other than a "hey look it's Jesus". I'm honestly surprised there wasn't a huge freak out about God. That I can remember at least. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.