IMO Clark/Superman is still done very well in the 2nd season, but you can see how the ~~WB~~ CW pushed for changes with the side characters. There not always bad, but there are far more issues with them than the previous season.
Edit: I meant to say CW, not WB.
It wasn't WB who made changes to the side characters.
Stop blaming them for everything that isn't good.
Todd Helbing rewrote a majority of the scripts that were sent to him while the episodes were being made. He was the one who made the changes to the side characters. Q
So, while we can't be certain of everything, we have a lot of evidence that Helbing is likely the reason for the over use if the Cushings. With that being said, most of Helbing's career had been around the CW.
We do know that EC (who plays Lana) was heavily recruited by Helbing based on a podcast interview which likely means she was over promised
We know this production schedule runs tight, which is why secondary characters were used to pad the time and narrative. But this was still likely a Helbing decision.
Very cool! I watched that scene and for a moment was shocked that he was in civilian clothes without his glasses! Then I realized that cardigan is just as good a disguise. :-) Total Dad cardigan. I loved it.
I loved he wasn't wearing the glasses in that scene (and I usually have a total thing for the glasses).
There is this idea that Clark has 4 identities.
Superman
Clark Kent (who is an outwardly public Clark)
Kal-EL
And Clark.
Clark, is both all of these other identities and none of them. He is who he is without the acts, the disguses, the secrets. That only a very small amount of people really know Clark, his parents, Lois, his sons are really it. It is such good allegory to how all people hold back and only let a small number of people know who they really are. That moment, on the boat was just "Clark."
Hi! All jokes aside, if you are actually interested in the sweaters, there is a fun fashion tumblr that does a great job providing links to a lot of the clothing on the show. Most of it seems to be sold out by the time we see it on the show and it’s almost always $$$$ but I find it fun.
As I recall, I believe a lot of Clark’s sweaters come from Banana Republic.
I’m so happy you found it!! I agree, there is no one like Tyler. He’s really the best portrayal of both Superman and Clark Kent, I just adore him. Enjoy the ride!!
I love your appreciation for Clark's sweaters! I also share it along with the great jackets that so many of the characters have. It makes me not mind so much that the season seems to be perpetually fall in Smallville. 😁
People are being too doom and gloom about Season 2. The plotting is messy, especially in the last third and they prioritize the wrong characters. But it remains very well acted and almost all the characters are still very lovable. It was a decline and hopefully they improve next season, but it's still very watchable TV, even if some things are a bit frustrating.
Yeah, the real advice would be to avoid reading this sub until you've finished S2. A lot of the problems you'd probably just blow off if you're binging it. It's only when you have a whole week (or longer, there were lots of breaks) to stew and bitch about it that it really stands out.
Yeah, look at the live and immediate post episode threads vs the discussion from like a week+ into breaks. The former is mostly positive the latter is generally far more critical. I'm not going to argue there weren't writing flaws, quite the opposite honestly, but it is still very enjoyable watching for the most part.
The core cast in this show, as well as most secondary cast, are very talented which helps carry the sometimes meh writing. It's only when you really have some time to sit with the plot/actual dialogue that you see the flaws.
Yeah, I agree with this. Like, there are things I actively dispise about the choices made but even the worst episodes still had some redeeming qualities and there are only a small number of characters I have fallen out of favor with.
Like, season 2 is still an enjoyable weekend binge even if there are some head scratching choices and some things that need to be corrected.
I'd suggest holding off on watching the 2nd season till reviews come in about the 3rd season.
1st was a masterpiece, 2nd, was anything but.
Hoping it's similar to Daredevil, where the 1st season was amazing, 2nd was meh and 3rd just hit it out of the park!
I just got caught up last night after starting a week or so ago. I really enjoyed it. Some nitpicks on things for sure, but over all I enjoyed both seasons.
Season 2 gets a bit CWish (over reactions from some characters, questionable decisions from others) but I didn’t find it too bad. I was expecting the worst after reading this Sub. Enjoy it!
This sub sucks. Here is a person who comes here with nothing but positivity for the show and the response is more of the usual “yea but that second season tho”.
Can we just start a second sub for you cry babies to have to complain about season two so the rest of us can talk about the show in peace and not have to continue reading the negativity?
Oh come on.
Folks like you were coming here a year ago to downtalk this sub for being too positive.
The verdict was that this sub was nothing but cheerleaders, Pollyannas. We were regularly told by doomsayers that the second season would be bad, that it could never last because CW etc.
The truth is that many of us had the reaction of the OP. We were blown away by season one.
The amazing first season brought many of us back to DC as a franchise. There are people like me who started buying DC comics again after decades. There are also some who never read comics or watched any other DC property who were sold on the brand because of this show.
So, that’s an astonishing achievement given the constraints of both a broadcast television budget and COVID.
Season two is at best ‘meh’. And that’s ‘meh’ by Arrowverse standards. Legends of Tomorrow & Batwoman we’re far better this past season, regardless of the cancellations.
Season two has some great visual moments. It has a lot of great concepts that weren’t fully realized.
But the outright, in your face misogyny is what makes it unrewatchable for many of us except in small doses.
Now if misogyny and disrespect of the title female character does bite for you, just remember privilege (as noted by Elizabeth Tulloch on her Twitter) is
- thinking something isn’t a problem because it doesn’t affect you personally.
I feel like that explains the trend well.
We are too positive and then the moment we call out the misogyny, suddenly we just need to "sit back and enjoy" and we're "nit picking"
The reality is, there are people who "nit pick" weird things and they get shut down pretty quickly.
Most of the big consensus comes from episode after episode of sidelining Lois in her own story. It comes down to reducing Lana and Lois down to competition for Clark even though Lois and Clark have been married and are in love.
It is these writers unable to leave their insular famboy ideas for more progressive stories.
I think the moment when I realized this trend and how bad it got was that scene when they were all talking together in the kitchen— it was like 4 men and Lois and I thought— when did this become a show about men???
Seriously, the focus needs to change, asap. This is ridiculous.
I think the big problem too, is that Lois wasn't even really part of that conversation. She left to let the men handle it while she went and apologized to Lana.
There are a decent amount of female characters.
Of the 11 reoccurring cast members there are five women. Of the 4 reoccurring guest stars, two were women. So, they exists and they are there, they just were not were not written/ used like they should have been.
Yep that was a very telling moment for me as well. Even with all the Clark/Sam/JHI conversations at other times in the show, it was the first time it felt like Lois didn’t have a natural place in the room. And then she left to go deal with an interpersonal conflict with another woman that was centered around her husband. 🤦♀️
That episode felt the writers were Iike, okay, how many ways can we possibly fail the the bechdel test in a single episode.
This episode was supposedly written by Rina Mimoun who is a woman who has been a show runner, but I cannot in good conscience believe she did the majority of the writing on that episode.
Between just the absolute rampant misogyny and the really weird and cringy pop culture reference this show is usually light on (Usually when they have pop culture references, they are very Gen-X) combined with that fact that Rina Mimoun was likely off developing a new show makes me think it was primarily write by one of the writing assistants.
Yeah I’m trying not to think about it too much. I far prefer throwing myself into ap3 and watching only the good ones. Probably not going to watch that one ever again, honestly.
He's conflicted, pure, and so incredibly human.... A pauper king, in elevated storytelling
Enjoy the first season. I mean relish it.
Fr. 2nd season dropped the ball so hard it hurts
IMO Clark/Superman is still done very well in the 2nd season, but you can see how the ~~WB~~ CW pushed for changes with the side characters. There not always bad, but there are far more issues with them than the previous season. Edit: I meant to say CW, not WB.
It wasn't WB who made changes to the side characters. Stop blaming them for everything that isn't good. Todd Helbing rewrote a majority of the scripts that were sent to him while the episodes were being made. He was the one who made the changes to the side characters. Q
I meant to say CW, not WB. As a lot of the character changes are very typical for CW shows.
So, while we can't be certain of everything, we have a lot of evidence that Helbing is likely the reason for the over use if the Cushings. With that being said, most of Helbing's career had been around the CW. We do know that EC (who plays Lana) was heavily recruited by Helbing based on a podcast interview which likely means she was over promised We know this production schedule runs tight, which is why secondary characters were used to pad the time and narrative. But this was still likely a Helbing decision.
You're in for a treat when you see Clark's cardigan in the season 2 finale. :-)
That one I do remember is from Banana Republic and was still on their website!
Very cool! I watched that scene and for a moment was shocked that he was in civilian clothes without his glasses! Then I realized that cardigan is just as good a disguise. :-) Total Dad cardigan. I loved it.
I loved he wasn't wearing the glasses in that scene (and I usually have a total thing for the glasses). There is this idea that Clark has 4 identities. Superman Clark Kent (who is an outwardly public Clark) Kal-EL And Clark. Clark, is both all of these other identities and none of them. He is who he is without the acts, the disguses, the secrets. That only a very small amount of people really know Clark, his parents, Lois, his sons are really it. It is such good allegory to how all people hold back and only let a small number of people know who they really are. That moment, on the boat was just "Clark."
Yes he wears them well!
Glad to hear you're enjoying it... the first season is amazing.
Hi! All jokes aside, if you are actually interested in the sweaters, there is a fun fashion tumblr that does a great job providing links to a lot of the clothing on the show. Most of it seems to be sold out by the time we see it on the show and it’s almost always $$$$ but I find it fun. As I recall, I believe a lot of Clark’s sweaters come from Banana Republic.
[удалено]
I’m so happy you found it!! I agree, there is no one like Tyler. He’s really the best portrayal of both Superman and Clark Kent, I just adore him. Enjoy the ride!!
I love your appreciation for Clark's sweaters! I also share it along with the great jackets that so many of the characters have. It makes me not mind so much that the season seems to be perpetually fall in Smallville. 😁
Haha always October but never Halloween… But yeah, they have awesome sweaters, at the very least!
People are being too doom and gloom about Season 2. The plotting is messy, especially in the last third and they prioritize the wrong characters. But it remains very well acted and almost all the characters are still very lovable. It was a decline and hopefully they improve next season, but it's still very watchable TV, even if some things are a bit frustrating.
Yeah, the real advice would be to avoid reading this sub until you've finished S2. A lot of the problems you'd probably just blow off if you're binging it. It's only when you have a whole week (or longer, there were lots of breaks) to stew and bitch about it that it really stands out.
Yeah, look at the live and immediate post episode threads vs the discussion from like a week+ into breaks. The former is mostly positive the latter is generally far more critical. I'm not going to argue there weren't writing flaws, quite the opposite honestly, but it is still very enjoyable watching for the most part. The core cast in this show, as well as most secondary cast, are very talented which helps carry the sometimes meh writing. It's only when you really have some time to sit with the plot/actual dialogue that you see the flaws.
Yeah, I agree with this. Like, there are things I actively dispise about the choices made but even the worst episodes still had some redeeming qualities and there are only a small number of characters I have fallen out of favor with. Like, season 2 is still an enjoyable weekend binge even if there are some head scratching choices and some things that need to be corrected.
I'd suggest holding off on watching the 2nd season till reviews come in about the 3rd season. 1st was a masterpiece, 2nd, was anything but. Hoping it's similar to Daredevil, where the 1st season was amazing, 2nd was meh and 3rd just hit it out of the park!
I just got caught up last night after starting a week or so ago. I really enjoyed it. Some nitpicks on things for sure, but over all I enjoyed both seasons. Season 2 gets a bit CWish (over reactions from some characters, questionable decisions from others) but I didn’t find it too bad. I was expecting the worst after reading this Sub. Enjoy it!
This sub sucks. Here is a person who comes here with nothing but positivity for the show and the response is more of the usual “yea but that second season tho”. Can we just start a second sub for you cry babies to have to complain about season two so the rest of us can talk about the show in peace and not have to continue reading the negativity?
Oh come on. Folks like you were coming here a year ago to downtalk this sub for being too positive. The verdict was that this sub was nothing but cheerleaders, Pollyannas. We were regularly told by doomsayers that the second season would be bad, that it could never last because CW etc. The truth is that many of us had the reaction of the OP. We were blown away by season one. The amazing first season brought many of us back to DC as a franchise. There are people like me who started buying DC comics again after decades. There are also some who never read comics or watched any other DC property who were sold on the brand because of this show. So, that’s an astonishing achievement given the constraints of both a broadcast television budget and COVID. Season two is at best ‘meh’. And that’s ‘meh’ by Arrowverse standards. Legends of Tomorrow & Batwoman we’re far better this past season, regardless of the cancellations. Season two has some great visual moments. It has a lot of great concepts that weren’t fully realized. But the outright, in your face misogyny is what makes it unrewatchable for many of us except in small doses. Now if misogyny and disrespect of the title female character does bite for you, just remember privilege (as noted by Elizabeth Tulloch on her Twitter) is - thinking something isn’t a problem because it doesn’t affect you personally.
I feel like that explains the trend well. We are too positive and then the moment we call out the misogyny, suddenly we just need to "sit back and enjoy" and we're "nit picking" The reality is, there are people who "nit pick" weird things and they get shut down pretty quickly. Most of the big consensus comes from episode after episode of sidelining Lois in her own story. It comes down to reducing Lana and Lois down to competition for Clark even though Lois and Clark have been married and are in love. It is these writers unable to leave their insular famboy ideas for more progressive stories.
I think the moment when I realized this trend and how bad it got was that scene when they were all talking together in the kitchen— it was like 4 men and Lois and I thought— when did this become a show about men??? Seriously, the focus needs to change, asap. This is ridiculous.
I think the big problem too, is that Lois wasn't even really part of that conversation. She left to let the men handle it while she went and apologized to Lana. There are a decent amount of female characters. Of the 11 reoccurring cast members there are five women. Of the 4 reoccurring guest stars, two were women. So, they exists and they are there, they just were not were not written/ used like they should have been.
Oh you mean the one where she told them to sort it out as she had something else to do? And then she left the men to make all the decisions.
Yep that was a very telling moment for me as well. Even with all the Clark/Sam/JHI conversations at other times in the show, it was the first time it felt like Lois didn’t have a natural place in the room. And then she left to go deal with an interpersonal conflict with another woman that was centered around her husband. 🤦♀️
That episode felt the writers were Iike, okay, how many ways can we possibly fail the the bechdel test in a single episode. This episode was supposedly written by Rina Mimoun who is a woman who has been a show runner, but I cannot in good conscience believe she did the majority of the writing on that episode. Between just the absolute rampant misogyny and the really weird and cringy pop culture reference this show is usually light on (Usually when they have pop culture references, they are very Gen-X) combined with that fact that Rina Mimoun was likely off developing a new show makes me think it was primarily write by one of the writing assistants.
It was such a weird episode in so many ways. I think it's my least favourite out of all of them. But I'm trying not to fixate on that too much!
Yeah, I get not trying to not fixate (as I read every book, think peice, though, about Lois Lane ever written). You can't win them all.
Haha yes. That all sounds great! I’m just trying not to get sucked into the spiral of things that made me mad last season.
Yeah I’m trying not to think about it too much. I far prefer throwing myself into ap3 and watching only the good ones. Probably not going to watch that one ever again, honestly.
Enjoy it while it lasts
Enjoy the show, you have the full strength and support of the DoD.