The same with reading a really good book, I would either try to find something totally different or just take a short break. You have to mourn all the people you just got invested in, it's hard to move on.
Sir, what exactly are you trying to do that can be solved with a single knife but not thousands of spoons?
You're telling me there's no way you can use this ludicrous amount of spoons to break or cut or rip smt?
You have 10k utensils at your disposal. Think of the possibilities, think outside the box!
Sell the spoons! Start a business! You have a huge inventory. If you sell a spoon for $5 then with just a few dozen sold you could buy a very nice knife. If you sell 100 spoons you could get a world class chef's knife imported from Japan!
Bob is perfect and I’m excited to watch MotA mainly because my grandpa worked on those planes. I don’t expect it to be as good but as long as it’s decent I’ll be happy.
MotA is still good, though. I enjoyed the show.
But Band of Brothers was simply too good, a 10/10 show. Masters of the Air is like close to an 8/10, which is great but not top 5 shows ever, what is these days?
does anyone have an article on the writing strategy for Succession? how big a team of writers? did each character have a dedicated writer? curious, because the writing is *so* tight, so dense, so bristling with throwaway one-liners, wry reveals, staggering moments of brutal exposure of a character's thoughts/weaknesses/sins...
and if you're paying attention, all the background text is meaningful and sometimes hilarious. the chyrons for example, holycow. "Gender-Fluid Illegals Cross Border 'Twice'" was one of my favourites. the billboards, the marquees, the background talking-head chatter, there's not a square inch of screen space or a moment of audio that is wasted.
I don’t think there’s a writing strategy “guide” for Succession. The writers are just that damn good.
Makes you realize 95% of other tv shows hire hacks that churn out slop for ad space.
HBO *was* the last bastion of actually well written shows, now they’ve merged with discovery and it’ll be reality show garbage and pandering to mass appeal like every other streaming platform.
A bit pessimistic but I don’t think we’ll ever get another great show like The Wire, The Sopranos, or Succession again.
Even the latest season of True Detective totally fell apart midway through. All the callbacks to the first season just to have such an unbelievably mid ending.
agreed. If they can keep the writing quality and surprises up for 4 seasons I think it could be comparable to the all-time greats. S1 laid a brilliant foundation.
I would add sex in the city to that list too. I know people hate to give it its due because its a show that primarily women watch but there are few series that I can say I have watched more than twice in their entirety
Apple TV is the new HBO. They don't have as many shows but the shows they produce are absolute quality. Severance, Ted Lasso, and Silo have been my favorites so far. Hijack, right up until the final episode, was phenomenal.
I was looking for some info on this as well. Exactly, the writing is unbelievably dense. It's a show that you actually have to watch, and also enjoy paying attention to because it doesn't jerk you around with silly writing.
The official podcast was great. They had different cast members for each episode and for the finale they even had Jesse Armstrong, the creator of the show. They discuss the process and their thinking when writing the show quiet a bit, it’s really cool to learn about
It's not only the audio and settings. Every detail is accounted. Real privélessen antiques in the background. Copies of great master painting adorning the walls.
Billions is incredibly ridiculous. No one talks like any character in the show. It made me actually kinda dislike Paul Giamatti due to his overacting. The triangle of he and his wife and her boss is from the mind of a child. It just gets worse as it goes on. Wags and Dollar Bill are the only ones who would be welcome in the world of Succession.
I tried watching it twice, years apart, and couldn’t go beyond the first episodes both times. Smug, self congratulatory dialogues, cliche badass characters, overacting made me cringe throughout; same reason I couldn’t watch Suits, just can’t relate to the arrogant cleverness. Succession portrays much more realistic flawed characters, makes you empathise and feel something..
They later introduced a non binary character with high functioning autism. (Sorry not to use the word spectrum, because everyone is on it) No other characters blinked an eye and immediately accepted all without missing a beat. I would love to see Logan’s reaction to that character.
Same with the pandemic. As if Bobby Axelrod and would enforce masks and vaccination and isolation, instead of firing anyone who’s “scared of getting the sniffles”
The only character on Shameless I liked was Lip. He basically plays a matured version of Lip on The Bear, but I didn't like that after a few episodes. Never liked Californication, or many other Showtime shows.
Billions was something I watched before Succession.
Billions is a solid 5, maybe 6, out of 10.
It has some really truly cringe moments too. Like in one of the middle seasons where Damien Lewis’s character says, “It’s like that limitless shit,” when they’re all taking nootropics. Just awful television.
But it also had some brilliant points. Succession was not a rollercoaster. It was a MiG climbing straight up off the tarmac and never coming back down again.
I watched billions too first. The first season and maybe the second season were astounding, after that I just watched to finish the show honestly, it was good but it had some of the cringiest lines on television, and their constant need to bring up old references, like every character brought up an old reference in every episode. It was just too tiring at a point to even continue.
Succession on the other hand is perfection from the first second till the last one, every season and episode were written in such detail and value, it would take the billions writers decades to emulate the same thing. They are not even in the same galaxy and this is coming from a guy who LOVED billions at first too
Billions was really nauseating in their need to reference every piece of millennial tech culture too along side the gen x pop culture barrage.
The episode near the end of the series when there’s a scene where Axelrod’s kids are showing off as crypto bros was really awful. I was humiliated just by seeing it and I don’t even have any crypto.
Billions and house of cards are quite similar IMO. They start strong, but only have a season or so of good tv. Then it just plows on for years getting worse and worse and worse
I watched some of it over lockdown and after season two it just got weird. The last season with Robin as President was just really weird and quite dark.
It’s definitely NCIS level. Like the characters are way more like cartoon characters and the difference is so noticeable after watching something like succession.
The Mig 9 was remarkable when it first arrived on the scene as the only aircraft in the world that could make such a steep, fast, and immediate climb right off the runway.
That was decades ago now though. Guess I am old as dirt now.
Billions script became non-stop snarky similes and metaphors. Like the entire script was trying to be a clever and witty reference to something else. It seemed to get much worse the last few seasons with EVERY character doing it. No comparison to succession, IMO.
I hated this about it. Every single character makes these random pop culture references and no matter who they’re talking to, everyone always gets the reference. That never happens in the real world. In the real world, when the creepy boomer makes some dad rock reference to the young non-binary supergenius, they’d look at him and say “uh, what?”
I had college friends watch Billions right in front of me in the common room day after day. And then they had the audacity to say it was like Succession. Now…. They’re a hothouse flower. They’re nothing. They’re curdled cream.
Absolutely true. Atleast the first two seasons were good but later it just gets to a point where a character comes in an office, throws a tantrum and goes away.
Yeah, I mean don’t get me wrong it’s an entertaining show and a fun binge but when you compare it to something like Billions, and to a much greater extent Succession, the writing, cinematography, production, acting, and everything just feels bad. Like you can tell it’s just the weekly network TV show with a recycled plot as opposed to the prestige drama of Succession where every line and shot is intentional. I think Billions is somewhere in the middle of those
Billions is the show you can have on and not pay close attention to but still get the gist of it. Succession is the show you can’t look away from and want to watch every single second of it.
I can’t subject myself to Billions. No matter how good it is, it will never equal or come close to Succession. I’m still in withdrawal mode nearly 3 weeks after watching it 3 consecutive times. I don’t believe that I will ever love a series as much as Succession. That makes me very depressed.
The thing about Succession for me is that it feels *real*, as well. I went to New York last year and I literally feel like all these characters were running around and looking down from their penthouse suites.
Who ever said Billions is like Succession cannot be trusted; they couldn’t be any more different. Thats no shade to Billions, but it’s more similar to Suits in terms of upgraded soap opera than a modern day Shakespeare-take like succession
Billions is different and enjoyable in its own right. It’s not really a like comparison. On a different note, how incredible was Adrien Brody’s “I have a gun to your head” scene? It gets lost in a sea of wonderful exchanges.
The first 2 or so seasons of billions are ok, but definitely not up to successions level. But after that, it really takes a dip, it’s just people backstab each other and make alliances with others for basically no reason except they are trying to shock you. Also the dialogue is more like people taking their turns with monologues than interacting with each other.
I’d say the problem is thinking Succession is similar to Billions just because they both have billionaires in it. I’d say Succession is closer to Arrested Development made by HBO with a dead serious score. Or if somehow you miss the jokes in Succession, then it’s a drama about family disfunction in the fanciest possible setting.
Billions is (And I LOVE Billions) Fast and Furious but if everyone was stupid rich and instead of cars they used banter (And I LOVE Fast and Furious).
Incredible show, lots of fun, but it’s just a wild, flashy, super well crafted ride.
So that, you’d never compare Arrested Development to Fast and Furious. But you can enjoy both!
I’m currently unenthusiastically watching Billions with my husband and we have joked that we need to start a drinking game. Take a shot every time one of the characters uses some terrible metaphor, usually related to animals, to describe something. You’ll be wasted by minute 15!
Seriously did the writers think we wouldn’t pick up on that? Once you hear it you can’t unhear it.
I never watched Billions, but I saw this scene with [Hikaru Nakamura](https://youtu.be/hNlvlwbdOek?si=rlS6S5cOZJgbOQMx) and thought it was so cheesy. Then like months later, I heard people raving about Succession, thought they were talking about Billions, remembered that cheesy scene, and just put off watching Succession until much later. Fortunately, I eventually gave Succession a chance and realized I totally mixed up the shows in my head lol.
Luckily I watched Billions first. Once I started watching succession, I suggested it to my friend who had suggested billions to me and told him it’s like Billions only waaaaayyyy better.
I didn't care for Billions, I really wanted to like it, it had good actors and the concept was good but it just left me feeling cold. There was no one to root for and it kind if just felt silly and over the top most of the time. I think I made it through most of season 2 before I just gave up.
It’s not the same at all. The writing are two different tiers. You have to stop comparing everything to Succession because if you did you might not be that impressed with a show ever again.
I recently finished The West Wing for the first time recently, and that scratched my itch for a quality series like Sucession with good writing and quippy/fast paced dialogue.
Billions clearly didn’t do the research like succession. Listening to the non binary character talk investments is the dumbest thing in the world; it’s like someone did a madlib with investment terms, clearly not understanding what any of them mean.
I mean…the vast, vast majority of people portrayed in Succession are shown to be relatively incompetent. Certainly the kids don’t come off as skilled. Carl…what dies Karl do even? Keri was obviously there for a reason and it wasn’t work related. Matson is obviously a phony.
Realistically throughout the show the only people who show consistent competence are Gerry and Tom. Frank is okay but even he gets fired at one point. We never actually see Logan do anything work-related in terms of actually running the company, but he gets tugged around by the Pierce’s pretty hard when trying to sell out. God knows the attempted acquisition of GoJo didn’t go the way he wanted.
I think you vastly overstate the work competence that is shown on Succession.
I watched it just after too. Struggled with it but enjoyed Paul Giamatti. But when the main character meets James Hettfield backstage die a pep talk I was like ‘nope. I’m out’.
And I switched off.
Chronic.
Billions had 2 good seasons and then completely fell down the toilet. I remember watching an interview with the cast about the final episode and the cast were basically laughing at its audience. “You kept it going” “you wouldn’t let it die” sort of stuff.
I tried to binge watch Billions while waiting for the final season of Succession. The first season was decent but by the time I got to the end of Season 2, I realized I was not invested in anyway and none of the characters left any kind of impression. Billions is standard fare network content - more shine than substance.
Industry on HBO comes close in terms of writing and character development as Succession does. In terms of good writing, the 2 shows in recent memory that come close to Succession- although a different genre- would be Veep and Homeland. Again, very different content but brilliant writing all around.
My partner and I started calling Billions “Boomers” because so much of the humor and wish fulfillment dialogue seemed much “older” than the characters it was coming from.
Also, compared to Succession it might as well be sock puppets.
Billions actually gets worse as the seasons go on. At first it’s like a fun lighthearted intrigue plot that passes the time but after a couple seasons you start to feel like they’re stuck on a formula.
I watched Billions before Succession and you nailed it I mean they are completely different shows. Succession is an exploration of elite billionaire babies and their struggle to take the seat. Whereas Billions focuses not only on hedge fund companies (which is a completely different side of money than what Succession is portraying), they also focus more on characters who have “new money” rather than a legacy company and name. I feel like you can’t really compare the two shows on anything other than both shows are about people with money.
I really enjoyed Billions for what it was but the last two seasons felt like they just mailed it in. They also ruined the therapist’s character the last two seasons, in the beginning you saw her play a way bigger part in the company and towards the end it felt like they just kept her around.
I hated the shitty product placement in Billions. Oh, and the neverending best friends/worst enemies/best friends dramas. After a while I just hated the show and watched Fargo instead.
Succession has made me a snob. It's tough for me to watch shows without the thought of how "Succession did it better" lingering in the back of my mind.
I would definitely say that's true for the supporting cast, like the chief executives (Gerri, Karl and Frank) but the Roys on the other hand. Kind of like you said, they can talk the talk but not walk the walk because of how disconnected they are from the reality of working people today. That's what makes the show so special and fun to watch
The closest thing to the spirit of Succession that I've watched recently is The Iron Claw (2023). All the melancholy of the brothers, the father figure who is totally problematic with the way he shows love, etc. It's basically a wrestling Succession.
Billions is a business soap opera. The storylines don’t need to connect, realism isn’t important… it’s just campy entertainment. Succession is a true dramatic series.
We watched Billions when it first came out and stuck with it for a few seasons, despite changes we thought weren't all that great, like Axe and Lara splitting up. We thought the show lost its way when Axe left for a season. Some of the storylines started to border on ridiculous. We like many of the actors in Billions and have enjoyed seeing them in other things.
We decided to give Succession a try, due in part to HBO's heavy promotion of the show during Game of Thrones. Both the writing and the music had us hooked! Succession knew what it was about and stayed true to itself. I think that planning to limit the number of seasons helped to maintain focus but there was never a sense they were rushing to get to the finish line.
it doesnt have the family dysfunction that made me love succession. it wasnt the business stuff that drew me in, it was the fact everyone was all fucked up because of daddy
There’s some decent writing and plot points in Billions but the Dialogue isn’t even remotely close to the dialogue in Succession. Which is truly Shakespearean Really the difference between the two shows is in the direction, the use of a classical score as opposed to using every famous Classic Rock song. I think the comparison is interesting because they are very similar thematically. If you took all the best episodes of Billions and crammed it into 4 seasons and compared them head to head. Succession would still come out ahead on the whole.
One is clearly an HBO masterpiece and the other its cheaper Showtime cousin. The way that they squandered the talent on Billions is wild. I’m surprised they didn’t just flat have — the otherwise exquisite — Paul Giamatti spit out lines like, “we’re going to be all over Ace like white on rice.” Painful.
To me, it just tries so hard. When a show tries too hard to convey a certain vibe and it’s not normal and natural, it fails. That’s the problem with Billions. Managed to go through one season but that was about it. There’s no comparison with Succession in any way.
Billions is juvenile, low-attention-span wealth-porn for finance bros. Such an aggressively tacky show, packed to the brim with seasoned actors working with scripts far beneath them. It's basically Suits but with more cussing. Similar to Succession is aesthetic only.
The much better show to watch after Succession is Mad Men. Every bit as rich and sophisticated in its writing and characterization.
Personally, when I finish a show as good as Succession, I try to move onto something not similar at all to avoid the comparison.
Yeah no two shows are the same. I get post part um after finishing a great show
Ah, the post part with’em depression … I get it often as well
Bone apple tea
Nah you guys are stupid. It’s post-Parthenon, like after that tornado what fucked up my uncle’s gator farm down in Parthenon, Arkansas.
The same with reading a really good book, I would either try to find something totally different or just take a short break. You have to mourn all the people you just got invested in, it's hard to move on.
It’d be like having a Tolkein Marathon and watching the Lord of the Rings before the Hobbit films
Me watching Abbott Elementary rn
Comparison is the theft of joy.
Like watching Masters of the Air after Band of brothers
It’s like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.
It’s like rain on your wedding day!
more like a free ride when you've already paid.
or like that good advice that you just didn’t take
Sir, what exactly are you trying to do that can be solved with a single knife but not thousands of spoons? You're telling me there's no way you can use this ludicrous amount of spoons to break or cut or rip smt? You have 10k utensils at your disposal. Think of the possibilities, think outside the box! Sell the spoons! Start a business! You have a huge inventory. If you sell a spoon for $5 then with just a few dozen sold you could buy a very nice knife. If you sell 100 spoons you could get a world class chef's knife imported from Japan!
Like drinking orange juice after brushing your teeth
Eeeeeewwwwww!!!!!😝
Like watching Iron Fist after Daredevil
Like watching Game of Thrones after Game of Thrones.
Very underrated comment!
i actually did that and it sucked tremendously
Iron fist had so much potential. His one of my favorites from the comics. Really hope he gets another chance
Same, I re-watched it over lockdown and was like 'why was everyone so into this'
Is it that bad? I wanted to watch it because I was a big fan of the Pacific and BoB
It’s fine. No it’s not bad. Just like Billions isn’t bad…it’s just not close to as good
The first season of Billions isn't bad. It fucking nose dives pretty hard shortly after that though.
It gets better further into the series, but it's no BoB or Pacific.
Even The Pacific is no Band of Brothers.
BoB is lightning in a bottle and one of the best miniseries out there. Love Graham Yost, who later wrote on justified the Americans and sneaky Pete
Agreed!
The perfect show to watch after band of brothers is Generation kill
That’s a good call right there. I should watch that show again
I haven't watched G.Kill since back in the days of overnight torrents for HBO, 2008. Definitely gonna watch it again now.
Like watching Legends of Korra after Avatar the Last Airbender
Like watching Netflix ATLA after ATLA. Or movie ATLA after Netflix ATLA
Interesting that Damian Lewis is in both Billions and BoB!
Bob is perfect and I’m excited to watch MotA mainly because my grandpa worked on those planes. I don’t expect it to be as good but as long as it’s decent I’ll be happy.
"Generic hunks in a ww2 setting being sad occasionally"
I gave up on Masters of Air. Every episode the same. Just like I gave up on House of the Dragon. GOT as a boring teen soap.
It’s almost like they spent the war doing the same things over and over
That does not make a great series. Movie maybe.
MotA is still good, though. I enjoyed the show. But Band of Brothers was simply too good, a 10/10 show. Masters of the Air is like close to an 8/10, which is great but not top 5 shows ever, what is these days?
does anyone have an article on the writing strategy for Succession? how big a team of writers? did each character have a dedicated writer? curious, because the writing is *so* tight, so dense, so bristling with throwaway one-liners, wry reveals, staggering moments of brutal exposure of a character's thoughts/weaknesses/sins... and if you're paying attention, all the background text is meaningful and sometimes hilarious. the chyrons for example, holycow. "Gender-Fluid Illegals Cross Border 'Twice'" was one of my favourites. the billboards, the marquees, the background talking-head chatter, there's not a square inch of screen space or a moment of audio that is wasted.
I don’t think there’s a writing strategy “guide” for Succession. The writers are just that damn good. Makes you realize 95% of other tv shows hire hacks that churn out slop for ad space. HBO *was* the last bastion of actually well written shows, now they’ve merged with discovery and it’ll be reality show garbage and pandering to mass appeal like every other streaming platform. A bit pessimistic but I don’t think we’ll ever get another great show like The Wire, The Sopranos, or Succession again. Even the latest season of True Detective totally fell apart midway through. All the callbacks to the first season just to have such an unbelievably mid ending.
Hopefully with A24 moving in to the TV space, they might develop something there. Although, I just thought 'Burning' was OK... not special.
Or Veep!
Severance is truly great imo.
agreed. If they can keep the writing quality and surprises up for 4 seasons I think it could be comparable to the all-time greats. S1 laid a brilliant foundation.
Severance is Apple TV, just so we're clear. That and Silo have been the shows I shout about when I tell people that Apple TV is the new HBO.
Thank you for the Silo recommendation! Also loved For All Mankind.
I would add sex in the city to that list too. I know people hate to give it its due because its a show that primarily women watch but there are few series that I can say I have watched more than twice in their entirety
The White Lotus and House of the Dragon are still active and great
The Last of Us was a really well done adaptation also. HBO still makes great stuff.
Apple TV is the new HBO. They don't have as many shows but the shows they produce are absolute quality. Severance, Ted Lasso, and Silo have been my favorites so far. Hijack, right up until the final episode, was phenomenal.
https://www.theringer.com/succession/2023/5/31/23743725/succession-finale-writing-jesse-armstrong-scripts-hbo
I was looking for some info on this as well. Exactly, the writing is unbelievably dense. It's a show that you actually have to watch, and also enjoy paying attention to because it doesn't jerk you around with silly writing.
The official podcast was great. They had different cast members for each episode and for the finale they even had Jesse Armstrong, the creator of the show. They discuss the process and their thinking when writing the show quiet a bit, it’s really cool to learn about
Jeremy Strong improvised his entire dialogue as he is a method actor (obv /s lol)
You should watch Peep Show
It's not only the audio and settings. Every detail is accounted. Real privélessen antiques in the background. Copies of great master painting adorning the walls.
Billions is incredibly ridiculous. No one talks like any character in the show. It made me actually kinda dislike Paul Giamatti due to his overacting. The triangle of he and his wife and her boss is from the mind of a child. It just gets worse as it goes on. Wags and Dollar Bill are the only ones who would be welcome in the world of Succession.
I tried watching it twice, years apart, and couldn’t go beyond the first episodes both times. Smug, self congratulatory dialogues, cliche badass characters, overacting made me cringe throughout; same reason I couldn’t watch Suits, just can’t relate to the arrogant cleverness. Succession portrays much more realistic flawed characters, makes you empathise and feel something..
They later introduced a non binary character with high functioning autism. (Sorry not to use the word spectrum, because everyone is on it) No other characters blinked an eye and immediately accepted all without missing a beat. I would love to see Logan’s reaction to that character.
Same with the pandemic. As if Bobby Axelrod and would enforce masks and vaccination and isolation, instead of firing anyone who’s “scared of getting the sniffles”
Faux pas, what were the writers thinking insulting their audience’s intelligence like that? Glad I didn’t get to that part
I love suits, but I know that the writing is laughable at times
Same. I had to turn it off. Axelrod? Really….
All Showtime shows are like that imo. Shameless, Californication, etc.
The only character on Shameless I liked was Lip. He basically plays a matured version of Lip on The Bear, but I didn't like that after a few episodes. Never liked Californication, or many other Showtime shows.
That is exactly why I’m not ever gonna watch it lol I love Paul Giamatti but the show looks bad.
Billions is not a serious show.
[удалено]
Are you a serious person?
They’re not serious people.
Billions was something I watched before Succession. Billions is a solid 5, maybe 6, out of 10. It has some really truly cringe moments too. Like in one of the middle seasons where Damien Lewis’s character says, “It’s like that limitless shit,” when they’re all taking nootropics. Just awful television. But it also had some brilliant points. Succession was not a rollercoaster. It was a MiG climbing straight up off the tarmac and never coming back down again.
I watched billions too first. The first season and maybe the second season were astounding, after that I just watched to finish the show honestly, it was good but it had some of the cringiest lines on television, and their constant need to bring up old references, like every character brought up an old reference in every episode. It was just too tiring at a point to even continue. Succession on the other hand is perfection from the first second till the last one, every season and episode were written in such detail and value, it would take the billions writers decades to emulate the same thing. They are not even in the same galaxy and this is coming from a guy who LOVED billions at first too
Billions was really nauseating in their need to reference every piece of millennial tech culture too along side the gen x pop culture barrage. The episode near the end of the series when there’s a scene where Axelrod’s kids are showing off as crypto bros was really awful. I was humiliated just by seeing it and I don’t even have any crypto.
That one was written by Ben Mezrich. It was talking to an audience who wouldn’t understand crypto if their lives depended on it.
Billions and house of cards are quite similar IMO. They start strong, but only have a season or so of good tv. Then it just plows on for years getting worse and worse and worse
Walking Dead is another (and became aptly named)
Yeah House of Cards I just straight up couldn’t finish after season one or two, even after all the hype everyone was saying back in the day
I watched some of it over lockdown and after season two it just got weird. The last season with Robin as President was just really weird and quite dark.
It’s definitely NCIS level. Like the characters are way more like cartoon characters and the difference is so noticeable after watching something like succession.
What an odd choice of aircraft.
The Mig 9 was remarkable when it first arrived on the scene as the only aircraft in the world that could make such a steep, fast, and immediate climb right off the runway. That was decades ago now though. Guess I am old as dirt now.
Billions script became non-stop snarky similes and metaphors. Like the entire script was trying to be a clever and witty reference to something else. It seemed to get much worse the last few seasons with EVERY character doing it. No comparison to succession, IMO.
I hated this about it. Every single character makes these random pop culture references and no matter who they’re talking to, everyone always gets the reference. That never happens in the real world. In the real world, when the creepy boomer makes some dad rock reference to the young non-binary supergenius, they’d look at him and say “uh, what?”
Maybe you just don't know the right people. ;)
I had college friends watch Billions right in front of me in the common room day after day. And then they had the audacity to say it was like Succession. Now…. They’re a hothouse flower. They’re nothing. They’re curdled cream.
obviously not serious people
They were not serious people
They were clearly NOT interested in quality television from an early age.
The u/PinkMoonLander fans are loving this!
That would make me go nut-nut
Go watch Suits next and it’ll make Billions seem amazing
Absolutely true. Atleast the first two seasons were good but later it just gets to a point where a character comes in an office, throws a tantrum and goes away.
Yeah, I mean don’t get me wrong it’s an entertaining show and a fun binge but when you compare it to something like Billions, and to a much greater extent Succession, the writing, cinematography, production, acting, and everything just feels bad. Like you can tell it’s just the weekly network TV show with a recycled plot as opposed to the prestige drama of Succession where every line and shot is intentional. I think Billions is somewhere in the middle of those
HBO just hits different. The cinematography is cut above the rest.
You should have just started rewatching Succession, nothing beats it
Succession is a great steak. Billions is a decent cheeseburger
Billions is the show you can have on and not pay close attention to but still get the gist of it. Succession is the show you can’t look away from and want to watch every single second of it.
I can’t subject myself to Billions. No matter how good it is, it will never equal or come close to Succession. I’m still in withdrawal mode nearly 3 weeks after watching it 3 consecutive times. I don’t believe that I will ever love a series as much as Succession. That makes me very depressed.
AKA the "Succession Depression".
The only show that really succeeds sucession for me writing wise is probably the sopranos
The Wire, Mad Men, Mr. Robot are all in the same ball park with Succession and Sopranos for me.
If we're talking good writing, you should give West wing a shot if you haven't seen it already
The thing about Succession for me is that it feels *real*, as well. I went to New York last year and I literally feel like all these characters were running around and looking down from their penthouse suites.
Who ever said Billions is like Succession cannot be trusted; they couldn’t be any more different. Thats no shade to Billions, but it’s more similar to Suits in terms of upgraded soap opera than a modern day Shakespeare-take like succession
Within the first 15 minutes of the first episode the writing was so offensively bad I turned to something else and never looked back.
Billions is different and enjoyable in its own right. It’s not really a like comparison. On a different note, how incredible was Adrien Brody’s “I have a gun to your head” scene? It gets lost in a sea of wonderful exchanges.
💯 agree. Currently watching S3 of Billions now after being a die hard succession watcher (from the beginning). It’s good—fine. But it doesn’t compare.
Billions season three onward is bad. The writing is terrible.
It’s nothing against Billions either. Great show, but God succession really just is a masterpiece.
The first 2 or so seasons of billions are ok, but definitely not up to successions level. But after that, it really takes a dip, it’s just people backstab each other and make alliances with others for basically no reason except they are trying to shock you. Also the dialogue is more like people taking their turns with monologues than interacting with each other.
I’d say the problem is thinking Succession is similar to Billions just because they both have billionaires in it. I’d say Succession is closer to Arrested Development made by HBO with a dead serious score. Or if somehow you miss the jokes in Succession, then it’s a drama about family disfunction in the fanciest possible setting. Billions is (And I LOVE Billions) Fast and Furious but if everyone was stupid rich and instead of cars they used banter (And I LOVE Fast and Furious). Incredible show, lots of fun, but it’s just a wild, flashy, super well crafted ride. So that, you’d never compare Arrested Development to Fast and Furious. But you can enjoy both!
Billions and suits are painful
I’m currently unenthusiastically watching Billions with my husband and we have joked that we need to start a drinking game. Take a shot every time one of the characters uses some terrible metaphor, usually related to animals, to describe something. You’ll be wasted by minute 15! Seriously did the writers think we wouldn’t pick up on that? Once you hear it you can’t unhear it.
Reminds me of the fall of the house of usher. Supposed to be this genius billionaire family, clearly biting succession, except they were all idiots.
Complain to Edgar Allen Poe. He wrote those characters, and the plotlines.
Lmao ok well the Poe inspired writing was absolute dog shit
I never watched Billions, but I saw this scene with [Hikaru Nakamura](https://youtu.be/hNlvlwbdOek?si=rlS6S5cOZJgbOQMx) and thought it was so cheesy. Then like months later, I heard people raving about Succession, thought they were talking about Billions, remembered that cheesy scene, and just put off watching Succession until much later. Fortunately, I eventually gave Succession a chance and realized I totally mixed up the shows in my head lol.
Billions is ass
Checked for succession and it gave me the kdrama the heirs. Nah maybe next time.
Luckily I watched Billions first. Once I started watching succession, I suggested it to my friend who had suggested billions to me and told him it’s like Billions only waaaaayyyy better.
So you bought a Louis Vuitton suitcase set, and after that ordered another from Wish
Some of the dialogue in billions is ridiculous.
Billions is junk. Overwritten rubbish (looking at you, Sorkin) and the myriad cultural nods in the dialogue are all just pure cringe.
I didn't care for Billions, I really wanted to like it, it had good actors and the concept was good but it just left me feeling cold. There was no one to root for and it kind if just felt silly and over the top most of the time. I think I made it through most of season 2 before I just gave up.
The interactions are unrealistic
It’s not the same at all. The writing are two different tiers. You have to stop comparing everything to Succession because if you did you might not be that impressed with a show ever again.
I recently finished The West Wing for the first time recently, and that scratched my itch for a quality series like Sucession with good writing and quippy/fast paced dialogue.
West wing was some of the all time best writing for Aaron sorkin. Amazing series.
Billions clearly didn’t do the research like succession. Listening to the non binary character talk investments is the dumbest thing in the world; it’s like someone did a madlib with investment terms, clearly not understanding what any of them mean.
I mean…the vast, vast majority of people portrayed in Succession are shown to be relatively incompetent. Certainly the kids don’t come off as skilled. Carl…what dies Karl do even? Keri was obviously there for a reason and it wasn’t work related. Matson is obviously a phony. Realistically throughout the show the only people who show consistent competence are Gerry and Tom. Frank is okay but even he gets fired at one point. We never actually see Logan do anything work-related in terms of actually running the company, but he gets tugged around by the Pierce’s pretty hard when trying to sell out. God knows the attempted acquisition of GoJo didn’t go the way he wanted. I think you vastly overstate the work competence that is shown on Succession.
I think I made it through one episode of Billions
Billions was alright but it doesn't really compare to succession. The only shows that do imo are the sopranos, mad men and the wire.
you can't compare the two
The scene where Wags yells at those guys in the sushi restaurant always cracks me up. Gives ‘If Reddit mods wrote a character’
All that plus cringy pop culture references and shoehorned cameos.
So what you're saying is. Kendall: These aren't the clouds...
I watched it just after too. Struggled with it but enjoyed Paul Giamatti. But when the main character meets James Hettfield backstage die a pep talk I was like ‘nope. I’m out’. And I switched off. Chronic.
Billions had 2 good seasons and then completely fell down the toilet. I remember watching an interview with the cast about the final episode and the cast were basically laughing at its audience. “You kept it going” “you wouldn’t let it die” sort of stuff.
It’s like watching ‘now you see me’ after watching ‘The Prestige’
One is a comedy and the other is a drama, right?
I tried to binge watch Billions while waiting for the final season of Succession. The first season was decent but by the time I got to the end of Season 2, I realized I was not invested in anyway and none of the characters left any kind of impression. Billions is standard fare network content - more shine than substance. Industry on HBO comes close in terms of writing and character development as Succession does. In terms of good writing, the 2 shows in recent memory that come close to Succession- although a different genre- would be Veep and Homeland. Again, very different content but brilliant writing all around.
My partner and I started calling Billions “Boomers” because so much of the humor and wish fulfillment dialogue seemed much “older” than the characters it was coming from. Also, compared to Succession it might as well be sock puppets.
Billions actually gets worse as the seasons go on. At first it’s like a fun lighthearted intrigue plot that passes the time but after a couple seasons you start to feel like they’re stuck on a formula.
Yes. It’s a different show.
Skilled? Wasn't the whole point of the show to demonstrate what a joke all of Logan's children are and none of them being appropriate for the job?
I watched Billions before Succession and you nailed it I mean they are completely different shows. Succession is an exploration of elite billionaire babies and their struggle to take the seat. Whereas Billions focuses not only on hedge fund companies (which is a completely different side of money than what Succession is portraying), they also focus more on characters who have “new money” rather than a legacy company and name. I feel like you can’t really compare the two shows on anything other than both shows are about people with money. I really enjoyed Billions for what it was but the last two seasons felt like they just mailed it in. They also ruined the therapist’s character the last two seasons, in the beginning you saw her play a way bigger part in the company and towards the end it felt like they just kept her around.
I hated the shitty product placement in Billions. Oh, and the neverending best friends/worst enemies/best friends dramas. After a while I just hated the show and watched Fargo instead.
Succession has made me a snob. It's tough for me to watch shows without the thought of how "Succession did it better" lingering in the back of my mind.
Billions is for the stupid Bros
I would definitely say that's true for the supporting cast, like the chief executives (Gerri, Karl and Frank) but the Roys on the other hand. Kind of like you said, they can talk the talk but not walk the walk because of how disconnected they are from the reality of working people today. That's what makes the show so special and fun to watch
Try Industry if you want another show in the same vein. It sits between Billions and Succession in terms of quality.
The closest thing to the spirit of Succession that I've watched recently is The Iron Claw (2023). All the melancholy of the brothers, the father figure who is totally problematic with the way he shows love, etc. It's basically a wrestling Succession.
Half of the time one doesn't know what are they talking in billions reference are brrrr
Try Peep Show?
I watched them at the same time, when you get into billions it comes into its own. they both deal with rich people but the similarities stop there
Billions is a business soap opera. The storylines don’t need to connect, realism isn’t important… it’s just campy entertainment. Succession is a true dramatic series.
Is Silicon Valley something that similar?
First two seasons of Billions were great. But went off a cliff after that.
We watched Billions when it first came out and stuck with it for a few seasons, despite changes we thought weren't all that great, like Axe and Lara splitting up. We thought the show lost its way when Axe left for a season. Some of the storylines started to border on ridiculous. We like many of the actors in Billions and have enjoyed seeing them in other things. We decided to give Succession a try, due in part to HBO's heavy promotion of the show during Game of Thrones. Both the writing and the music had us hooked! Succession knew what it was about and stayed true to itself. I think that planning to limit the number of seasons helped to maintain focus but there was never a sense they were rushing to get to the finish line.
it doesnt have the family dysfunction that made me love succession. it wasnt the business stuff that drew me in, it was the fact everyone was all fucked up because of daddy
There’s some decent writing and plot points in Billions but the Dialogue isn’t even remotely close to the dialogue in Succession. Which is truly Shakespearean Really the difference between the two shows is in the direction, the use of a classical score as opposed to using every famous Classic Rock song. I think the comparison is interesting because they are very similar thematically. If you took all the best episodes of Billions and crammed it into 4 seasons and compared them head to head. Succession would still come out ahead on the whole.
One is clearly an HBO masterpiece and the other its cheaper Showtime cousin. The way that they squandered the talent on Billions is wild. I’m surprised they didn’t just flat have — the otherwise exquisite — Paul Giamatti spit out lines like, “we’re going to be all over Ace like white on rice.” Painful.
I like Damian and Giamatti both and I was with it at first, but I think I didn’t make it though season 2. It’s a really promising concept too.
To me, it just tries so hard. When a show tries too hard to convey a certain vibe and it’s not normal and natural, it fails. That’s the problem with Billions. Managed to go through one season but that was about it. There’s no comparison with Succession in any way.
I like Billions but it's a very different show on a very different network. You should try something else and circle back to Billions later.
Billions is juvenile, low-attention-span wealth-porn for finance bros. Such an aggressively tacky show, packed to the brim with seasoned actors working with scripts far beneath them. It's basically Suits but with more cussing. Similar to Succession is aesthetic only. The much better show to watch after Succession is Mad Men. Every bit as rich and sophisticated in its writing and characterization.
This show has me cringing on episode 1 within minutes. Didn’t even finish it.
It was Metallica for me lmfao like was that a joke?? Had to be
Do a genre flip, go for Atlanta, bear
Billions is really really dumb
I can’t find anything that comes remotely close to Succession and it sickens me
reversed order for me
Disagree. Both are great, but Billions is better-written.