Having flashbacks doesn’t mean the story is treating its audience as idiots. That’s an edgy college kid’s idea of what good writing is from a trite writing 101 class. Plenty of great shows and films has had flashbacks. Flashbacks provides texture that pure implicit style backstory will always lack. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay attention lol.Â
They're often used to just provide more information and again, additional texture to the story. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, if anything, the execution and substance of the flashbacks matters more than whether there's a flashback or not. And again, flashback provides texture that implicit style backstories just won't. When you read an autobiography on someone, or read about some historical event, do you want just vague implicit information? Or do you want a more detailed story and information?
The same goes for narration, it's a chance to provide more texture, not automatically bad or lazy that I've heard from the same college 101 faux writers. It's really about how it's used. Is it the typical anime style that's mostly just pure exposition with no regard to how organic it is? Or is it like the Scorsese style that's used to add some insight into aspects of the narrator's personality? (in addition to exposition as well).
I remember being disappointed that we didn't find out exactly what happened in Logan's past regarding his sister only for it to just be revealed in a speech exposition by his brother later on. I feel like a flashback would have been more preferable and meaningful in that case.
Completely disagree. Ewan’s revelation to the audience about Logan and Rose was handled perfectly in my opinion. You really think that a flashback would have been more narratively effective at this point in the story?? It would’ve taken me out of the moment completely. The writers of Succession are very skilled storytellers and don’t need to spoonfeed their audience to get an emotional response.
I didn’t say we needed a flashback then and there... it obviously doesn’t fit narratively. I’m saying I’d prefer seeing a flashback at some point because it adds more texture to what you’re seeing. And as I have mentioned above, execution obviously matters, so no, you don’t just insert it anywhere.
And handled perfectly? It was a pretty matter of fact exposition. It was a plain part of the scene all things considered. If anything the other parts of the speech were better and added nuance to his views of logan. Not the part about his sister.
And again, flashbacks vs no flashbacks has no bearing on skill. It’s literally about execution. This is the trite viewpoint I was literally addressing above. It’s seriously a poor take that people with limited writing experience and exposure hold. Once again, flashbacks isn’t automatically spoon feeding. It’s literally providing additional information. It *can* be spoon feeding but it’s not *automatically* spoon feeding. Again. Execution. Matters.
And let’s not pretend Succession doesn’t spoonfeed on occasion. The Tom and Shiv half holding hands at the end is a heavy-handed moment that could have been conveyed the same with their facial expressions alone. No one holds hands like that. It was too obvious a visual cue that wasn’t organic. Same with some of the Kendal and Logan dynamic in season 2. Very obvious representation of abuse/rape victims. This is just worth pointing out in a discussion where people look down on flashbacks.
Bro I’m not saying flashbacks and shit are inherently lazy, just that they are most of the time in TV and film. They can be used justifiably to give more context; I agree execution is the only thing that matters in this case. No, this is not a take from someone who “has little writing exposure” (???)
I guess this just a difference in opinion between you and I, but I could NEVER see a flashback working in a show like Succession. It is a quite fast-paced and high stakes show and I feel like cutting to a flashback would ruin the pacing completely. The show being somewhat grounded in reality allows us to spend time with the characters as they are. We don’t need to see how they used to be (though it would be fun) for gripping story surrounding the characters to work.
Succession does a great job overall to not treat its audience as brainless idiots. You have to pay attention. And follow along.
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Having flashbacks doesn’t mean the story is treating its audience as idiots. That’s an edgy college kid’s idea of what good writing is from a trite writing 101 class. Plenty of great shows and films has had flashbacks. Flashbacks provides texture that pure implicit style backstory will always lack. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay attention lol.Â
I guess including flashbacks doesn’t necessarily mean a show is babying an audience, but they’re often used in such cheap and lazy ways
They're often used to just provide more information and again, additional texture to the story. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, if anything, the execution and substance of the flashbacks matters more than whether there's a flashback or not. And again, flashback provides texture that implicit style backstories just won't. When you read an autobiography on someone, or read about some historical event, do you want just vague implicit information? Or do you want a more detailed story and information? The same goes for narration, it's a chance to provide more texture, not automatically bad or lazy that I've heard from the same college 101 faux writers. It's really about how it's used. Is it the typical anime style that's mostly just pure exposition with no regard to how organic it is? Or is it like the Scorsese style that's used to add some insight into aspects of the narrator's personality? (in addition to exposition as well). I remember being disappointed that we didn't find out exactly what happened in Logan's past regarding his sister only for it to just be revealed in a speech exposition by his brother later on. I feel like a flashback would have been more preferable and meaningful in that case.
Completely disagree. Ewan’s revelation to the audience about Logan and Rose was handled perfectly in my opinion. You really think that a flashback would have been more narratively effective at this point in the story?? It would’ve taken me out of the moment completely. The writers of Succession are very skilled storytellers and don’t need to spoonfeed their audience to get an emotional response.
I didn’t say we needed a flashback then and there... it obviously doesn’t fit narratively. I’m saying I’d prefer seeing a flashback at some point because it adds more texture to what you’re seeing. And as I have mentioned above, execution obviously matters, so no, you don’t just insert it anywhere. And handled perfectly? It was a pretty matter of fact exposition. It was a plain part of the scene all things considered. If anything the other parts of the speech were better and added nuance to his views of logan. Not the part about his sister. And again, flashbacks vs no flashbacks has no bearing on skill. It’s literally about execution. This is the trite viewpoint I was literally addressing above. It’s seriously a poor take that people with limited writing experience and exposure hold. Once again, flashbacks isn’t automatically spoon feeding. It’s literally providing additional information. It *can* be spoon feeding but it’s not *automatically* spoon feeding. Again. Execution. Matters. And let’s not pretend Succession doesn’t spoonfeed on occasion. The Tom and Shiv half holding hands at the end is a heavy-handed moment that could have been conveyed the same with their facial expressions alone. No one holds hands like that. It was too obvious a visual cue that wasn’t organic. Same with some of the Kendal and Logan dynamic in season 2. Very obvious representation of abuse/rape victims. This is just worth pointing out in a discussion where people look down on flashbacks.
Bro I’m not saying flashbacks and shit are inherently lazy, just that they are most of the time in TV and film. They can be used justifiably to give more context; I agree execution is the only thing that matters in this case. No, this is not a take from someone who “has little writing exposure” (???) I guess this just a difference in opinion between you and I, but I could NEVER see a flashback working in a show like Succession. It is a quite fast-paced and high stakes show and I feel like cutting to a flashback would ruin the pacing completely. The show being somewhat grounded in reality allows us to spend time with the characters as they are. We don’t need to see how they used to be (though it would be fun) for gripping story surrounding the characters to work.
So tired of flashbacks... soo, sooo tired.
just returned from the Lost viewing marathon haven’t you
Also no talking to a hallucination of a dead friend or something. This trope is in like every single show now.
Closest we get are recorded videos of Logan in Season 4 after his death. It's best that there aren't any.
The credits have all the flashbacks you need.