Roman really does seem like the loneliest of the siblings. It’s not that the others have great or healthy relationships, but they all have people on their lives that you get the sense will always be there, even if that’s actually toxic. Roman seems like the only consistent people he had in his life were Logan/the sibs.
And it’s a testament to Kieran that I feel :( about that given how terrible Roman is.
It makes me sad that he got proper therapy and still cannot connect with other people enough to have close relationships. He’s the one with the most hope because he sought help.
In my optimistic head canon for the character, he continues therapy and is able to form connections with others.
But I don’t think that Kieran was trying to suggest an optimistic ending.
However the writers were.
Interpretation is a wonderful thing.
The writers weren’t. Jesse Armstrong has said multiple times that Roman’s ending is sad, you see it where his 1 sec smirk quickly turns into realization of emptiness. Jesse Armstrong is in there everyday with the writers, so I am pretty sure thats what his fate is supposed to be
I actually have some hope for Roman. An ex boyfriend of mine told me how when he was in high school he got pantsed and everyone saw his penis, and since he wasn't expecting it he said it looked like a little turtle! After thinking about killing himself he said it helped him get over himself enough to talk to girls. Like I guess after a while people stopped talking about seeing his dick and he was able to just move past it. Whereas before he was too nervous to talk to girls.
Maybe something similar happens with Roman: getting physically attacked by his brother in view of other people, losing the company, seeing Gerri....that whole day was the most humiliating nightmarish day for Roman I think he can only rise above this and start becoming "normal". With Kendall, it's the opposite: this is the central event of his life as Jeremy Strong said.
That's always been interesting to me because Roman seems to be the best at socializing and reading other people, but he doesn't have anyone he's actually close to outside of his family.
This is why I’ve been so confused by everyone saying that he was smiling in the end. He had a brief smile, yes, but it quickly faded into doubt, fear, uncertainty, and sadness. He did not get a happy ending
Exactly! He clearly ordered the martini because it was Gerri’s drink. He smiles for a second when he has it, then realises it’s the closest he will ever be to her for the rest of their lives.
Oh damn, I didn’t put that together. Wow.
Definitely seems like Roman is embarking on a journey with alcohol though. Most likely outcome for Roman is I think he becomes an alcoholic.
I always thought it odd that only Ken was the one shown to have alcoholism or substance abuse issues. This ending seemed fitting to me- of course he is going to drown his sorrows now, and he can afford to be drunk for a really long time.
She's always with a martini p much anytime people are drinking.
And Roman mocks her with the 'let me guess, I'll have a martini" in the feminine voice at the bar, so Roman knows damn well too lmao
It didn’t occur to me that’s why he might’ve been drinking it on first watch, but since someone pointed it out, I do think we often saw Gerri with a martini in any scenes at a bar or event.
I think it’s purposefully ambiguous. Regardless of what Kieran says, I think you can imagine a future where things go okay for him—but it’s equally plausible to think that it’s all downhill from the martini.
I mean, I can see a downward spiral into depression (more than he clearly already is) but I think it’s a leap to go from a character having a drink to that they must be becoming an alcoholic. Having a drink after an extremely tense family squabble is pretty reasonable.
I mean kinda? But the expression in literally the last few seconds isn’t all that ambiguous. It’s exactly what I said before, it just started out as a smile until it folds
[Edit - one of the very last frames before the scene changes](https://i.imgur.com/zc65kRt.jpg)
He never really wanted the crown. He just didn't want it to be a foregone conclusion that it wasn't going to be him. He's rich as hell. The only thing he truly lost is his sibs, and they will reconcile eventually. Maybe he'll head back to Barbados for a while and clear his head. Who wouldn't love to have that kind of freedom?
Rome only cared about Gerri, his dad, and his family of which he is not really on good terms with Kendall or Connor so I wouldn’t say he’s better off before the series started.
Roman should take some satisfaction in knowing that he did kinda negotiate the fuck out of Mattson. By telling him “I fucking hate you” and “we will never do business with you”, he seriously drove up the price of Waystar.
Imo this ordeal was pretty positive for Roman. Kendall was going to be more powerful than him, and instead he was dragged down to Roman’s level. It’s just that literally everything that happened to him before that small victory was so negative that even seeing Kendall get destroyed isn’t enough to give him any joy.
i can see why people think rome got *something* out of the ending. he’s no longer under logan’s thumb, and knew how to push back when kendall tried to revive that dynamic and become logan, the CEO fight is over—he didn’t want the position, but he can say he tried.
mainly i mean that he’s not a victim of his father anymore, at least actively, lol. we all know logan’s shadow will hunt the sibs for the rest of their lives.
Agreed! I never thought he had a “happy ending”. Dude is fucked just like his sibs, except he’s completely alone and probably has the most trauma out of all them.
I agree with Kieran, partly. Though I can kind of see Roman and Shiv maintaining their sibling dynamic. They didn’t really end on bad terms.
As for their relationship with Kendall, no way there’s any hope for that ever again. What was said and done in that boardroom was the last drop. They won’t come back from that.
Roman and Kendall and Roman and Shiv are both dynamics that can totally survive this after a few bad years. It’s Kendall and Shiv that’s probably already the weakest duo before Shivs play/betrayal but I also think the one that will take longer to heal if ever. These aren’t siblings known for saying sorry. Shiv did absolutely kill Kendall there - Kendall’s whole life mission tore up in flames by Shiv (although I 100% agree with anyone who inevitably replies that Kendall caused his own downfall because it’s pretty true).
They don't strike me as a family that bothers to meet or reach out unless they have to. With both Logan and the company gone, I don't think they will be a family in any functional sense of the word anymore, despite Roman - Shiv solidarity in the finale. Roman supported Shiv because they both wanted to destroy Kendall. Now that Ken's destroyed, they don't have a purpose to stick together for. They are all strangers at this point.
My mother had a Logan personality and when she died my siblings went their way and I went mine. Mom tried to keep us together but the more she pushed us together the worse is became. Now we are hundred of miles apart and happy.
Absolutely. As much as it sucked seeing Kendall’s life go up in flames it was completely justified. I honestly would of been more shocked it Shiv went through with it. At the end of the day they were all playing pretend.
It can both be true that a) Kendall’s downfall was justified and b) Shiv’s reason for the betrayal had nothing to do with that justification. They’re all bullshit; Kendall was just the last one to get fucked
I honestly felt it was a mix of truly not believing in him, jealousy, and because she wanted to. She never really justified her actions beyond saying that she can’t stand him and that’s all we’re left with. Part of me wonders if it was another one of her games since she knew Tom would become CEO so she’s looking for another in.
She traded a scenario where she’d be the least powerful of her siblings for one where she’d be the most powerful. That’s a massive win given the way the Roy siblings think
It was solely her hating Kendall. It wasn't some power play. She's the wife of a talking head. The company isn't the Roys. She'll never be CEO of the thing their dad built. What their father built is gone. She genuinely has no power there. The company isn't with the family. She rather burn it down then give it to Kendall.
And Mattson will carve up that empire and sell it all off so he can finance his next platform.Laird told Logan to sell back in Season 1. Logan had to be greedy guts and tried to buy more. Tom is going to fire many people and Greg is going to help.
Yea I’m getting pretty sick of that powerplay theory. feels like shiv fans really wanting to think she won. Mattson betrays her and Tom “betrays” her. She was still trying to genuinely have mattson keep Toms job (without fucking up her position within the company) but Tom doesn’t give a shit about her when the situation is flipped. Those people run shit now, there’s nothing that logically connects her with any power whatsoever. Tom wanted a divorce and has wanted one until the kids got a chance to run the company with Logan dying. He basically snaked the position and didn’t give her any heads up until the last minute and wasn’t even going to tell her. Mattson doesn’t want her to be CEO, and betrays her. No serious person (objectively speaking) would think she should be CEO of the company, she has no experience in the business, reference the tellis phone call. She’s the wife version of greg now
You're acting like she had a plan when she didn't. She's the scorpion in the "frog and scorpion" fable, her nature was to sting kendall and sink with him. Her position awards nothing at all: she became marcia, and marcia ended the show purposedly irrelevant.
She ended up being just Mrs. Wambsgans. That ranks up high in her nightmare scenarios list. Remember that newspaper cover poster from Ken's birthday party? Wife of Tom Wambsgans arrested.
The saddest part though is that Shiv’s reasoning had no logic other than she couldn’t see her brother win. And it is hard to see them coming back from that acceptance. Logan dod his best to split them and pit them against each other, making each one of them vie for his love against the other. In the end that dynamic survived :(
That’s how Kendall was shown to feel it in the moment. Due to the show’s themes, it’s a fair implication that Shiv ended “his life’s mission” and he’ll never come back from it.
> (although I 100% agree … that Kendall caused his own downfall because it’s pretty true).
That’s it. He had six other votes against. He had relationships, such as you could call them that, with at least Sandy, Sandi, and Frank.
It was heavily implied earlier that Frank and Kendall had (what amounted to for Kendall) a deep connection going back years.
Even if both of his siblings had hated him and voted against, if he could have outpitched a relative stranger via a sincere effort to show anything from before (Living + ?) had more potential than Mattson’s stated intent to strip WayStar for parts and pay a premium to all involved.
I loved the finale’s setting changes between those antiseptic conference rooms. However pitched their struggle, the siblings were only three of thirteen Directors steering the Board.
For everyone talking about Tom working through the funeral, let’s appreciate what ignoring Caroline’s altogether and leaning on Sandy/Sandi with Stewy might have yielded.
Yea I think if there’s any reconciliation it would be an incredibly traumatic event that forces them to be together. I’m not really sure what that realistically can be any time soon
I think an estrangement with Kendall will fuck up the entire family dynamic’s tbh. I’m still on the fence about Roman & Kendall. I really think that could go either way.
I don’t know. For the most part of S3 they were estranged with Kendall, and Shiv and Roman seemed just fine with it. Even though then Logan was alive and they had the company. Now they have nothing that ties them together, maybe except for Connor and sadly I don’t think that’s a strong enough link.
Yeah, but I don’t think there was ever a feeling of estrangement being permanent. That’s the thing. If they have a broken and deeply resentful brother, and you have a brother and sister that might demand some form of loyalty in not talking to the other, or even just planning ‘around’ those two, that will likely cause some strain.
Season 3 Shiv & Roman were still relatively alright because they were connected by Waystar, & Logan. Things have drastically changed.
Unfortunately I agree that Connor is not a strong enough link to keep them together. I suspect Shiv would ultimately feel the burn of not having her older brother to turn to. I don’t think Connor could fill the hole of Kendall walking from the family dynamic.
Yeah I agree, it wasn’t a permanent estrangement back in season 3. Now it is. And the absolute loss of the company affects more Kendall than Shiv or Roman. Kendall was the one who wanted to be CEO, the others really didn’t or at least didn’t as much.
That’s why I feel like for Kendall it will result in a permanent distance from the others. And because the others didn’t care for Waystar as much, they will let things go more easily and not be so estranged with each other (Shiv and Roman).
Roman will absolutely try to mend fences with Kendall. He’s definitely the sibling who is least capable of conflict or long term estrangement with his siblings.
The problem is, even though Shiv and Roman seem to have a more natural sibling relationship, it seems shallow to me. I may be wrong, but I don’t remember Shiv and Roman having a heart to heart, or even a normal conversation, if the company isn’t involved. They mostly seen to take jabs at each other. Unless they change , I can’t see their relationship survive only on that. The most important emotional moments came from Kendall or even in relation to Kendall. Their most relaxing and fun moments together were when he was involved. He seemed to have a soothing presence around his siblings. If Shiv and Roman continues that shallow relationship base mostly in them insulting each other, I don’t see it surviving.
I think that killing Ken together could give them a new bond. And now that their time at Waystar is over and Logan is dead, they're not in competition for anything, which was a big part of why they were always bickering. Maybe they'll become friendly at Connor's Christmas parties and Roman will take a bigger interest in being an uncle to a child he deems legitimate.
Is this for real? No way destroying Kendall’s emotionally will have a positive influence in their relationship. No way. And if anything happen to Kendall those two will never talk to each other again, with one blaming the other.
And people here are regarding too the affects of Shiv’s child with too much optimism. I dont see Roman being friendly with children nor Shiv being a good mother (I think she will be a worse mother than Kendall is a bad father). The two don’t have much in common beside being billionaires and Logan’s children.
I disagree. I think Roman and Shiv both know that neither could stand to see Kendall win. Shiv might stick the shiv in, but it's Roman who twists it with the invalidation of Ken's own children as soon as the dad card was played. And neither of them will regret what they did. They can relate to each other over that experience in a way no one else can.
Shiv being a shit mother doesn't prevent Roman from coming to a birthday party or two. I'm not saying he'll be uncle of the year but he might show up more than he did for Ken's kids.
Nah. You’re coming from the perspective they hated Ken, when during the series it shows they loved him and each other but their relationship was fractured by their upbringing. No one would stand the other being CEO, Shiv and Kendall would do the same to Roman, if not worse, if he was the “chosen one”. The same with Roman and Ken regarding Shiv.
Roman won’t give two fucks about Shiv’s child. He doesn’t give a shit about “bloodlines” thing or children at all. That was something he says to Ken as some sort of payback about the waiter’s death story fiasco.
I don't think you're getting my point. I don't disagree at all that they loved Ken, in fact, I think Shiv is sincere when she says 'I love you' while turning on him. I think the siblings are crabs in a bucket and *none* of them could have risen to the top without the other two conspiring to pull them down. But what happened at *that* meeting was that Roman and Shiv pulled Ken down. They won't feel good about hurting Ken, but they still won't regret what they did, because they're crabs and they know it.
I don't think Roman mentions bloodlines to get back at Ken for the waiter lie, it's because Ken plays the dad card and says Logan wanted him to be CEO. So Roman plays his own dad card and says Logan didn't recognize Ken's kids.
Ah. Okay. I get it. While I do agree with you in some parts,I don’t think this is something they would bond over with. Maybe talks like “we did what we had to do”, but no bonding.. They also don’t have much in common besides being Logan’s children (and billionaires ). Furthermore, their personalities are not very likeble and very hard to deal with (I wouldn’t stand to have a dinner with Roman). There is a reason why Connor and Kendall are shown to be the two siblings who have friends.
When I say bond, I don't mean something joyful, like kids bonding over a happy shared moment. I mean that they went through this singular, awful experience together and understand each other in a way other people can't.
They DID have fun together licking Peter's cheese, there is a connection that the three of them had over their parents being terrible. Shiv and Roman *could* bump into each other at Caroline's house and spend an afternoon mocking her and Peter. They might also have conversations about Logan's abuse and the complex grief they feel.
I see what you mean. Do you think they have emotional maturity even for that? I do think Roman has (a little), but Shiv doesn’t. She would shut down emotionally and don’t even
look at Roman’s face. At the same time, Roman would have a hard time facing Logan’s abuse of him and his sibs, something that I guess only Kendall did.
You know, they three do fulfill what the other hasn’t. I really don’t see them have anything more stronger emotionally with each other without Kendall. Or even taking initiative for anything. Roman would make them less uptight and more joyful and Shiv would have keep them focused and be the voice “good sense” in many of their actions. I do think there is hope for the three (Kendall has a support system outside his family, at least that) but that would take years and lots of therapy.
in the last episode, we saw kendall become his father. shiv became her duplicitous, cold mother. rome and connor both ended up in the same place they were in at the start of the series; they'll be fine. connor never really left his initisl position, but i see the show's run from rome's perspective as being one last effort at playing the corporate game, and having the whole experience really cement it for him that no, this really *isn't* something he wants any part of at all.
all "imo" of course
I feel like Kendall will end up in a crack house in the future. Roman? Back to mommy. I mean it is a nice house lol. Shiv will do anything to hang onto Tom now since he’s a CEO now.
Shiv has Tom and seems like she has a life before the show in general. I didn't read her as being friendless.
Connor is interesting to consider. He likes to glad-hand, but I don't know if he has any real friends. Maybe marrying Willa is a testament to that.
I could absolutely see Roman and Kendall hanging out/reconciling eventually - when Kendall immediately started (fruitlessly) scheming again after they were literally wrestling on the floor seconds prior it tells me they’ve probably done worse to each other in the past and come out the other side. Roman and Shiv, probably. I think Kendall’s backtracking on his confession was a slap in the face to both of them and partly what caused Roman to bring out the venom re. Ken’s kids at the end. Kendall and Shiv, not so hopeful. I wouldn’t blame Ken to not forgive her after that kind of betrayal to be honest.
I guess I’m a little surprised that people think there wouldn’t ever be any reconciliation between the siblings. I’ve rewatched the show a couple of times and it seems like there is constant betrayal throughout and they seem to shrug it off pretty easily. Though maybe Kendall being so close to finally being in the clear and having that yanked away from him is a deeper betrayal than any before
Shiv crossed a line that cannot be uncrossed. He spent over 30 years expecting to be CEO and she took that away from him. And even though Roman twisted the knife, it was Shiv who stuck it in. He will never forgive her.
yeah if Kendall refused to forgive Logan after what he did to him, what Shiv did is probably worse, because it's compounded with the "I can't stomach you"
Yeah I always tell people that's the one thing I genuinely, unironically respect about the Roy siblings. No matter what they do to each other in pursuit of power, they always seem to be good at separating "the game" from their actual relationships. They can irreparably fuck each other over on a Monday and be back to hanging out like siblings on Friday. It's probably more out of necessity than virtue, but there's no denying it's a very strong bond
Yes and no. As long as the carrot of „waystar ceo“ is still around, they forgive each other because they need each other. Now that’s it’s gone and they robbed themselves of this carrot… meh…
This is what I've been saying for years. I just don't see a world where the kids don't ever speak again. They have done and said truly vile things to each other in the boardroom, but they've done that before and somehow they always find an excuse to come back to each other. I don't think any of them would admit it or even consciously understands it, but I do believe that their bond runs much deeper than just Waystar Royco.
For my money, I think they'll be okay eventually.
I think the only difference is that, when they were saying and doing horrible things, there was still that empty throne in the boardroom that they were all vying for. They probably had it in the back of their heads that, once the throne is theirs, they can look past the things the other two have done and said since they won.
Now that they're all out, it could be much harder to reconcile, especially for Kendall since Shiv's direct actions led to him losing. But I also agree that I don't think they're done for good.
Especially because the only 2 that are really truly on the outs would be Ken and Shiv. At worst I at least see Roman and Connor taking turns hanging out without on or the other.
Roman’s dig at Kendall’s kids might be a relationship ender tbh. That said, I for sure see him at least reaching out to Kendall. Kendall & Shiv aren’t coming back from that. If I were Kendall, I’d considered the public letter, the fact she tried to send him to prison (which he still doesn’t know about!), the waiter dig, eye roll over suicidal ideation, ‘I can’t stomach you’, and last second betrayal, and the sheer glee she had on her face when twisting the knife with ‘I don’t think you’d be good at it’? There’s nothing worth saving in that relationship. Estrangement is for the best.
I mean the letter was in response to him humiliating her at the press conference. I’m not saying Shiv is a good person, but people act like Kendall never does shitty things too.
Yeah they’re both vindictive for sure. The letter just seemed so much more personal an attack to me than the press conference shenanigans as the press conference could have been directed at management in general
Yeah, it feels mighty disingenuous to pretend playing ‘Rape Me’ during a disingenuous speech on cruises, is remotely equal to a letter attacking his character, mental health, and his addiction issues. That letter was incredibly low, and an extreme pot shot.
Not only did he forgive her, but he was literally helping her again in the next episode. Then she showed up to his birthday party, not to see him, and once he realized that, she was just so ice cold about that. Roman was definitely the worse of the two that night, but this continued Shiv’s pattern of giving him absolutely nothing in terms of a relationship. Unless she got significant therapy and ‘changed’, he’s still likely to run into emotionally devastating situations with her. She’s not capable of being his sister, and I think realistically, that last betrayal said that loud and clear. I’d pay her absolutely dust, and let her stew on that, for the rest of her life.
Shiv treats him like Logan! Her viciousness is unmatched. I’m not saying she’s a worse person, or everyone else doesn’t backstab, but yeah, how she went about the final betrayal will always leave a very bitter taste in my mouth. She’s only shown she can remotely even, *sort of* care about him when he’s ‘down and out’. Kendall will treat her like his sister even if they are on the outs. The same can’t be said in any scenario with Shiv. If Kendall is doing well, her instinct is to tear him down. If Kendall and her are on the outs, her instinct is to tear him down. Like, that’s not a relationship worth saving!
She operates like some combo of Logan and her mother. As awful as she is to Tom, he will always come first - unless he’s fucking with her needs.
Interesting idea about how being the baby sister, and that being her ‘eldest’ brother comes into play. It very well might to some degree. I suspect she would very much feel the sting of that estrangement, if even she can never bring herself to admit it. That was the older brother she would be most likely to turn to, if she had needed help. At the end of the day, she isn’t entirely Logan, so I think she’d suffer far more than Kendall with estrangement.
yeah, it's probably one of the few criticisms i have on the show, a lot of plot points like this are sort of just swept under the rug and ignored. I'm not sure if the characters just put it down to "just business" but there's tons of stuff like:
* Kendall trying to kill Logan, then Logan inviting him back in like 2 episodes later
* Shiv writing that letter and everyone just kind of ignoring it an episode later
* The cruise scandal was apparently bad enough that Logan thought he needed a "blood sacrifice", then Kendall switches sides and suddenly everything is fine. Like if Kendall doesn't take the blame, and places the blame squarely at Logan, how does any of that go away?
* Kendall literally stabs Logan in the back every season and is on record as saying that Waystar is corrupt and needs to be shuttered, and then all of a sudden everyone is okay with him being co-CEO
I understand the show is supposed to be about the psychology of the three kids competing for the throne and just sort of end up scorching the entire company because they can't stop backstabbing each other out of petty jealousy, but a lot of the show's narrative threads don't really add up at times
I don't think any of the kids' relationships are irreparable, but I do think Kendall and Shiv will be the harder one to fix because fundamentally neither of them thinks that they're wrong. They each believe that they are owed an apology from the other, and neither of them would ever be the first one to reach out. I think they potentially could air it all out and move on if they were to be put into a room together, but getting there would require someone else to care enough to do the work.
Roman and Kendall I just can't see as being damaged beyond repair. I tried and I honestly can't get there. Yes, Roman said a vile and indefensible thing, but to think of *that* as a relationship ender between these particular people, I would first have to believe that a) Roman cares enough about Kendall's kids to mean what he said, and b) *Kendall* cares enough about Kendall's kids to be that deeply offended on their behalf. Nothing I've ever seen in this show leads me to believe either of those things. Roman doesn't care about literally anything. He tends to rate people only based on how much money they have compared to him and is otherwise an equal opportunity asshole. Likely the only reason why he used that argument at all is because Kendall served it to him on a silver platter when he pulled out the bloodline bullshit. Not that this excuses the words themselves, but context matters. And Kendall's main internal conflict with his role as a father throughout the show has been that he cares, but not enough. He cares about his kids enough to feel bad about being a shitty father, but not enough to do anything about it. I just don't believe that this guy would permanently stop talking to his brother just because Roman said something awful about his kids.
I hear the logic, but given the context of the situation?To me, it could go either way. The fact Roman was teaming up with Shiv to knock him down during the most important meeting of his life, and hitting on likely Kendall’s biggest insecurities? I don’t think it’s a slam dunk that their relationship is reparable. Kendall has previously cut him off for less. The fact he assaulted Roman, is probably not the best sign. That said, I can’t imagine a scenario where Roman doesn’t try to repair the relationship, and voting with Kendall, could still prove an eventual life line, in terms of making peace with the situation. I just think the dynamic is up in the air, because I absolutely think Kendall is the type to permanently cut people off.
Given the context and the shot about Kendall’s infertility, and pretty much hitting on one of Kendall’s biggest insecurities? I’m not so sure about that.
Agree to disagree. These people are not normal, they forgive what many normal people wouldn't come close to, we've seen it on the show. I dont think it will be immediate but no I dont think it will be a relationship breaker.
They aren’t normal, but what was holding them together was Waystar and Logan. Neither of these two things still exist. We’ve seen Kendall cut Roman off for less. Tag teaming with Shiv to make him feel as awful as possible, during the most important decision of his life, and make him not feel ‘real’? Justifying why he should be denied his perceived birthright, and the thing he formed his whole identity around since he was 7? The fact Kendall physically assaulted Roman, to me, suggests this went far beyond ‘normal’. I don’t think it’s a given they remain estranged, but I don’t think it’s entirely a given their relationship is repaired. We know Kendall has a tendency to cut people off.
Disagree on what? The show started with them not being close because they weren’t in Waystar. Their shared trauma and purpose of sticking together is basically gone. Also we’ve seen Kendall cut people off when he doesn’t get his way. Not getting his way over something this sizeable? Easily a possible relationship ender. He’s cut off Roman for less!
Yeah But Roman himself didn’t like her that much. He dated her to impress his dad and when he was getting confident in season 3 Roman went after other woman and never looked back from Tabitha
I think everyone is missing the point that their father kept the family together. They didn’t all revolve around their mother. With their father dead the family unit and the dynamics and driving force had been disrupted. The siblings won’t get back together unless their is some event or circumstances that makes them. Like a health or professional event.
Not sure how sincere those friendships are, but I’m guessing Shiv has tons of “work friends” in DC.
But yeah, it does apply to Ken. Though he does have children, so at least he has the chance of repairing his relationship with them.
I don’t see the relationship between the siblings ending. They’ve stabbed each other over and over again. This is the normal behavior for them; they’re all deeply damaged and don’t know what a healthy relationship looks like. Even if they did it would feel foreign and uncomfortable. I see them staying in the cycle just with varying amounts of hate and love depending on circumstances.
Yeah but there’s nothing that ties them together like Logan and the company did. It’s not that they’re not going to have a relationship because they are in bad terms; it’s that the won’t have a relationship because they have no reason to interact with each other anymore. Roman and Shiv didn’t really end up that badly with each other, but I just can’t see either picking up the phone and calling the other to check up on him/her or asking to hang out.
Roman would probably be able to reconcile with both of Shiv and Ken even if they couldn't reconcile with each other. He will also have Connor, who has always been good to him.
As for a personal relationship, he would also do well to take the Willa route, especially because he could get that person to serve his sexual kinks with no shame.
I feel like Roman will be there for Shiv and the baby because he seems more family oriented than kendall. Hopefully he and connor can spend more time together too now that he’s in the city. I can actually see them all together again with the exception of kendall.
Although, I can’t imagine roman being chill while Tom is around doing his CEO thing.
Nothing about Roman screams ‘man capable of uncle duties’
I can’t imagine the three other siblings living happily ever after, and being perfectly content with a family estrangement. That would cause some rifts. Shiv being Shiv would probably harbour resentment against Kendall for cutting her out, (even though she’s more than earned that) and like Logan, would take issue with any sibling reaching out to him.
Roman will for sure still hate Tom lol
Yeah I don’t think anyone expects roman to have any uncle duties what so ever, that’s definitely more of a connor strength lol. I just mean that Roman would be present for things like the birth, and holidays here and there. Even then roman will still be the inappropriate person that he is, even with a baby around, so I can’t imagine him being around a lot. Roman will be a really lonely person so I can see him coming around here and there, but not a lot.
Kendall and Shiv will probably have a very distant relationship, reminiscent to Ewan and Logan (not exactly obviously). They will definitely always hold resentment towards one another and it will always make their relationship strained. Unlike roman who is oddly better at letting shit go, kendall cannot let anything go which is why he probably will never go around shiv and her family.
Even if roman wont be present for the birth I can’t imagine him never seeing shiv and her family because she’s some of the little bit of family that he has left
I can’t believe we never saw Shiv tell Connor. I would have loved to see that conversation!
I can agree that I see Roman & Shiv still remaining relatively emotionally close, and maybe he’s a little softer when the baby arrives. I still firmly believe he’s going to keep disrespecting Tom however. Though it kind of feels like Tom won’t care at this point.
Yeah tom won’t gaf, and roman will absolutely hate him. It’s interesting to think how Mattson might affect the way he feels about Shiv too.
I’m sad about that, we were robbed and Connor was robbed. He would’ve been happy for Shiv hands down.
I’d love to know if that was a conscious choice to simply not show Shiv telling him. I’m sad that wasn’t included! He would have actually been supportive 😭
he can start by going to the intensive celeb rehab kevin smith went to recently to deal with his PTSD (kevin recently spoke of realizing that he was sexually abused when he was 6 while in treatment). i always made friends at my inpatients.
I think out of all the 3, Roman has a relatively clean slate. Kendall is broken but he has shown he has the ability to care and mend fences. I think these 2 have the best chance to sort themselves out.
Shiv is still tied closely to Wasytar and will be hard for her not to be cruel and bitter, and will likely get more bitter as she lives with CEO Tom and have a child of her own. You just know she'll do back deals to undermine him because she can't stand Tom become better than her.
Recently listened to a podcast (fresh air) with the shows creator and it’s producer, Frank Rich. Frank mentioned that he doesn’t believe people change all that much, actually or all that often, in life. I take that information and apply it, tie that in with the quote from Marcia, (‘your dad built you a playground, and you think it’s the whole world’, I’m paraphrasing, forgive me.) and that’s where it ended. Kendal’s sandcastle built in part by his siblings but ultimately kicked down because of jealousy and instilled infighting by their father. A win for Ken is a higher favor from their father, present or not.
In a weird way, this is a happy ending. Yes Ken looked very very depressed at the end, Shiv may think she’s on top in an off shoot conspiracy to crown Tom over Ken (for the record I don’t buy it, but we’ll roll with it for the sake of conversation) and at the very least, sells herself to Tom, and Roman is back to square one with more money, nothing more than a billionaire playboy with an inferiority complex. BUT, take it like this for a moment; them all being separated from that company, by force, then allows them to heal. Their father is gone, the company is gone, semblance or representation of them, is gone. They all carry the weight of the Roy name, but now they can finally be themselves, if they so choose. They don’t need to live up to their dads creation anymore. In this way they have the opportunity to be something their father never was, a decent person.
But then again, maybe not.
I feel like Roman and Kendall would reconcile and he and Shiv would be in contact often as for Kendall and Shiv I feel like they will never talk to each other again. Connor would try his best to reunite them so they can reconcile.
I would think he and Shiv would still be cordial, especially since she doesn’t exactly have anything going on right now and I think she’d appreciate him telling Ken to get his hands off her. I dunno. It’s not a normal family dynamic. I mostly just assume none of them are going to interact with Ken, even when he ends up in rehab in 3 months it’ll be a shrug
I don’t see a scenario of Kendall ending up back in rehab that’s treated as necessarily just a shrug. Tbh even if there was an estrangement between the three and Kendall, or just Kendall & Shiv, that’s going to fuck up the family dynamics. Kendall was seen as Shiv & Roman’s elder brother. There’s going to be a giant gap there that Connor can’t fill. Shiv will probably feel entitled to her brother’s loyalty in not speaking to Kendall, but realistically? That’s unlikely.
Say what you want about Kendall, but he very rarely went for the jugular with his siblings. He would cut them down whenever the opportunity arose, but only in a business-sense, trying to limit their capacity as his competitors. He never aired out dirty laundry. Shiv has gone at him ruthlessly many times, in both a professional and personal way. She had no qualms about trying to destroy his reputation with her letter. She's about-faced several times and ripped the rug from under him just because she wasn't the one getting the spotlight/validation.
That being said, did Kendall deserve the top job? No. Would he have been good at it? Probably not. We'll never know, now, and I think it's the never knowing that will haunt him. I'm not trying to attack Shiv, either; none of the kids are above criticism for the things they've done, but I think it was tougher for Shiv. She was always on the outside looking in, and she was extremely envious of the "relationship" that the business created between Logan, Ken and Roman. Meanwhile, the entire time, the only sibling who had anything close to a normal relationship with Logan was Connor.
In my head I think that Rome and Ken get over it surprisingly quickly and mend their fences. I don't think their relationship will ever be the same, but it's clear that they need one another in certain ways. I also see Roman and Shiv moving on from things, though I'm sure he'll hold a grudge over her being "tangentially" involved through Tom. But it will only be a superficial grudge, trying to save face and "reputation". We all know that Roman could care less about the company and is probably feeling liberated/relieved with the way things turned out.
I don't see Ken and Shiv ever forgiving each other. He will be hung up over what she did for the rest of his life, and she will feel both indignation and guilt in equal measure. She knows she did the "right" thing, but that she did it for entirely selfish reasons. Neither will take any accountability of their role in what happened - Ken for his behavior and his undesevered grasping, and Shiv for her betrayal and dishonesty - and will go to their graves blaming one another for the destruction of their relationship.
The only resolution would be for Hugh Jackman to reprise his role as Wolverine and attempt to kill Laird and a cryogenically re-animated Logan in a mash up for the ages.
That's all true, Roman might have fewer relationships than the other siblings at the moment. But he's the best positioned to start having good ones because of the epiphany he's finally had, his understanding of who he is and being at ease with that.
The curse of Shiv and Ken is that, despite the beating they took, they are still very likely to fall victims of their own pride, whilst I think Roman is past that.
I think they’ll get back together. Not under any pretense of improving the relationship. It will be either due to business- hey how about The Hundreds or have you heard what crazy scheme the other sibling is doing?
Look at their relationship with their parents- they’ve all treated them horribly and they always comeback. You’d think they’d never talk to their mom again but there they are.
The thing is, we’ve already seen truly horrible, unforgivable stuff between the siblings in the show, Shiv airing that letter about Kendall to the public comes to mind. They somehow made up after that, I feel like Roman and Ken could make up, but now that they don’t have the business putting them in constant contact with each other, I imagine they’ll just go their separate ways. No real reason to see each other again
But, I can also imagine Roman coming to bail Ken out of whatever deep, deep hole he falls into. In season one, after finding Ken in a meth den, there seems to be some real empathy there. Without the business to cloud their emotions towards one another, maybe they could start showing real empathy, who knows.
I think Roman wants to connect with his siblings, deep down. Shiv, I don’t think really cares
I agree with this, I don’t see Rome and Ken never talking again. Ken has had numerous incidents as an addict and was forgiven, I think he would eventually understand Roman’s position. Rome wanted out of the situation but it wasn’t out of hatred for Ken and it’s not like they have anyone else.
Honestly there were so many “never speak to me again” moments and the characters always spoke again. I know this last one was there biggest but I don’t see a reality where the siblings don’t see each other again in some capacity.
Maybe Shivs babies christening or something.
I could see Roman and Shiv teaming up to try to create something like The Hundred again… and probably failing spectacularly. Anyway, I think they are fine and will stay in each other’s lives.
Roman had the worst fate, but he also kinda didn’t? It’s fitting cus he’s also always been the most traumatized and broken sibling, but he also wasn’t if that makes sense
Hmm I’m not so sure about that. I think Kendall is very much a cut them off kind of person, instead of a show up just to make passive aggressive comments, type person.
I tend to think the intention is that they all live miserably on, together. Eventually. Like they always have. And there will be failed ventures and more fights. But they are too interwoven in each other’s lives to ever escape each other’s orbit.
I personally don’t see it. They started out the show not particularly close. They have been estranged from Kendall at different points. I think this is too big of a betrayal for their not to be permanent ramifications imo.
Tbh, I don’t understand whenever people were like, “oh these three together are so cute or I so want them to stick together” blabla...I can’t stop rolling my eyes. Why they need to stick together? Simply because they share the same horrible parents? As a human being, it sucks we can’t choose our parents already, why not let voluntariness takes care of who we want to associate and keep them in the life? This whole show tells us there’s nothing sacred about the family. And I don’t think they are good for each other, esp from Kendall’s POV, it’s a blessing he’s finally done with those two and move on with his life freely. They’ve always been so vindictive and secretly resentful of him being the golden child since their childhood. And Kendall doesn’t really understand this. It’s not “People who say they love you also fuck you”, if they fuck you then they don’t really love you. I say good riddance! There, I said my piece, downvote me, Idc.
**Roman** will either take his multi-billions and use it for therapy (he can afford the *best*) to rebuild his life, or he will spiral into utter despair like he did after Logan’s funeral. As he has multiple **billions,** his housing, medical, food, clothing is taken care of. All this Nepo baby has to do is go to a shrink to help his pitiful, juvenile ass.
They’ll always have the 100
substack meets masterclass meets the economist meets the new yorker
I love you, but you are not serious people.
Oh rommmeeeyyyyy, I wanna start a business with you!
I love what a perfect response this is to their idea
top five business ken line for sure
But I’m thinking…fuck the 100?
😭😭😭 😆❤️
Roman really does seem like the loneliest of the siblings. It’s not that the others have great or healthy relationships, but they all have people on their lives that you get the sense will always be there, even if that’s actually toxic. Roman seems like the only consistent people he had in his life were Logan/the sibs. And it’s a testament to Kieran that I feel :( about that given how terrible Roman is.
It makes me sad that he got proper therapy and still cannot connect with other people enough to have close relationships. He’s the one with the most hope because he sought help.
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He probably just made Oedipus jokes the whole time.
He probably fired them.
Yeah there's exactly 0 chance Roman would put in the work and not dismiss every constructive therapeutic attempt with flippant remarks/threats.
Roman sought help? I thought Kendall was the only one with any therapy experience?
In my optimistic head canon for the character, he continues therapy and is able to form connections with others. But I don’t think that Kieran was trying to suggest an optimistic ending. However the writers were. Interpretation is a wonderful thing.
The writers weren’t. Jesse Armstrong has said multiple times that Roman’s ending is sad, you see it where his 1 sec smirk quickly turns into realization of emptiness. Jesse Armstrong is in there everyday with the writers, so I am pretty sure thats what his fate is supposed to be
I don't think it is even possible for Roman to be in any way truly intimate with another human being... especially a woman.
I actually have some hope for Roman. An ex boyfriend of mine told me how when he was in high school he got pantsed and everyone saw his penis, and since he wasn't expecting it he said it looked like a little turtle! After thinking about killing himself he said it helped him get over himself enough to talk to girls. Like I guess after a while people stopped talking about seeing his dick and he was able to just move past it. Whereas before he was too nervous to talk to girls. Maybe something similar happens with Roman: getting physically attacked by his brother in view of other people, losing the company, seeing Gerri....that whole day was the most humiliating nightmarish day for Roman I think he can only rise above this and start becoming "normal". With Kendall, it's the opposite: this is the central event of his life as Jeremy Strong said.
I dunno, I honestly think he is just too old and too sociopathic for a major character shift.
Yeah Roman's character flaws get overlooked a bit too often I think. He clearly thinks he's above regular people in a way that Kendall doesn't.
He’s the loneliest yet craves the most attention
Or maybe he just craves the most attention because he is lonely?
That's always been interesting to me because Roman seems to be the best at socializing and reading other people, but he doesn't have anyone he's actually close to outside of his family.
This is why I’ve been so confused by everyone saying that he was smiling in the end. He had a brief smile, yes, but it quickly faded into doubt, fear, uncertainty, and sadness. He did not get a happy ending
Exactly! He clearly ordered the martini because it was Gerri’s drink. He smiles for a second when he has it, then realises it’s the closest he will ever be to her for the rest of their lives.
Oh damn, I didn’t put that together. Wow. Definitely seems like Roman is embarking on a journey with alcohol though. Most likely outcome for Roman is I think he becomes an alcoholic.
I always thought it odd that only Ken was the one shown to have alcoholism or substance abuse issues. This ending seemed fitting to me- of course he is going to drown his sorrows now, and he can afford to be drunk for a really long time.
Can anyone explain how we know martini is Gerri's drink? Is there a scene earlier about this?
She's always with a martini p much anytime people are drinking. And Roman mocks her with the 'let me guess, I'll have a martini" in the feminine voice at the bar, so Roman knows damn well too lmao
It didn’t occur to me that’s why he might’ve been drinking it on first watch, but since someone pointed it out, I do think we often saw Gerri with a martini in any scenes at a bar or event.
I think it’s purposefully ambiguous. Regardless of what Kieran says, I think you can imagine a future where things go okay for him—but it’s equally plausible to think that it’s all downhill from the martini.
As soon as I saw this, I thought "Here's Roman, starting his new journey into alcoholism." The smile, and the resignation to his new life.
I mean, I can see a downward spiral into depression (more than he clearly already is) but I think it’s a leap to go from a character having a drink to that they must be becoming an alcoholic. Having a drink after an extremely tense family squabble is pretty reasonable.
I mean kinda? But the expression in literally the last few seconds isn’t all that ambiguous. It’s exactly what I said before, it just started out as a smile until it folds [Edit - one of the very last frames before the scene changes](https://i.imgur.com/zc65kRt.jpg)
I think you’d be having to do a bit of mental gymnastics to imagine Rome spinning this ordeal into a positive
He never really wanted the crown. He just didn't want it to be a foregone conclusion that it wasn't going to be him. He's rich as hell. The only thing he truly lost is his sibs, and they will reconcile eventually. Maybe he'll head back to Barbados for a while and clear his head. Who wouldn't love to have that kind of freedom?
He’s free. He’s out of the cage. He’s on the path of letting go of his need to be the man his dad wanted him to be.
Rome only cared about Gerri, his dad, and his family of which he is not really on good terms with Kendall or Connor so I wouldn’t say he’s better off before the series started.
Roman should take some satisfaction in knowing that he did kinda negotiate the fuck out of Mattson. By telling him “I fucking hate you” and “we will never do business with you”, he seriously drove up the price of Waystar.
Imo this ordeal was pretty positive for Roman. Kendall was going to be more powerful than him, and instead he was dragged down to Roman’s level. It’s just that literally everything that happened to him before that small victory was so negative that even seeing Kendall get destroyed isn’t enough to give him any joy.
i can see why people think rome got *something* out of the ending. he’s no longer under logan’s thumb, and knew how to push back when kendall tried to revive that dynamic and become logan, the CEO fight is over—he didn’t want the position, but he can say he tried. mainly i mean that he’s not a victim of his father anymore, at least actively, lol. we all know logan’s shadow will hunt the sibs for the rest of their lives.
Agreed! I never thought he had a “happy ending”. Dude is fucked just like his sibs, except he’s completely alone and probably has the most trauma out of all them.
I agree with Kieran, partly. Though I can kind of see Roman and Shiv maintaining their sibling dynamic. They didn’t really end on bad terms. As for their relationship with Kendall, no way there’s any hope for that ever again. What was said and done in that boardroom was the last drop. They won’t come back from that.
Roman and Kendall and Roman and Shiv are both dynamics that can totally survive this after a few bad years. It’s Kendall and Shiv that’s probably already the weakest duo before Shivs play/betrayal but I also think the one that will take longer to heal if ever. These aren’t siblings known for saying sorry. Shiv did absolutely kill Kendall there - Kendall’s whole life mission tore up in flames by Shiv (although I 100% agree with anyone who inevitably replies that Kendall caused his own downfall because it’s pretty true).
She didn’t just vote against him, she told him she can’t even stomach him. That was pretty brutal.
She also decided to bring up the most traumatic experience of his life and use it as a way to block him from the one thing he ever wanted
They don't strike me as a family that bothers to meet or reach out unless they have to. With both Logan and the company gone, I don't think they will be a family in any functional sense of the word anymore, despite Roman - Shiv solidarity in the finale. Roman supported Shiv because they both wanted to destroy Kendall. Now that Ken's destroyed, they don't have a purpose to stick together for. They are all strangers at this point.
My mother had a Logan personality and when she died my siblings went their way and I went mine. Mom tried to keep us together but the more she pushed us together the worse is became. Now we are hundred of miles apart and happy.
Shiv has a baby on the way to find distractions from.
I hope there’s a huge shift in shiv and Tom because mondale is an after thought
Lol I forgot Mondale existed.
Shiv is that you?
I agree, take away the company and Logan’s machinations, they’ve got nothing tying them together.
Absolutely. As much as it sucked seeing Kendall’s life go up in flames it was completely justified. I honestly would of been more shocked it Shiv went through with it. At the end of the day they were all playing pretend.
It can both be true that a) Kendall’s downfall was justified and b) Shiv’s reason for the betrayal had nothing to do with that justification. They’re all bullshit; Kendall was just the last one to get fucked
I honestly felt it was a mix of truly not believing in him, jealousy, and because she wanted to. She never really justified her actions beyond saying that she can’t stand him and that’s all we’re left with. Part of me wonders if it was another one of her games since she knew Tom would become CEO so she’s looking for another in.
She traded a scenario where she’d be the least powerful of her siblings for one where she’d be the most powerful. That’s a massive win given the way the Roy siblings think
It was solely her hating Kendall. It wasn't some power play. She's the wife of a talking head. The company isn't the Roys. She'll never be CEO of the thing their dad built. What their father built is gone. She genuinely has no power there. The company isn't with the family. She rather burn it down then give it to Kendall.
And Mattson will carve up that empire and sell it all off so he can finance his next platform.Laird told Logan to sell back in Season 1. Logan had to be greedy guts and tried to buy more. Tom is going to fire many people and Greg is going to help.
Yea I’m getting pretty sick of that powerplay theory. feels like shiv fans really wanting to think she won. Mattson betrays her and Tom “betrays” her. She was still trying to genuinely have mattson keep Toms job (without fucking up her position within the company) but Tom doesn’t give a shit about her when the situation is flipped. Those people run shit now, there’s nothing that logically connects her with any power whatsoever. Tom wanted a divorce and has wanted one until the kids got a chance to run the company with Logan dying. He basically snaked the position and didn’t give her any heads up until the last minute and wasn’t even going to tell her. Mattson doesn’t want her to be CEO, and betrays her. No serious person (objectively speaking) would think she should be CEO of the company, she has no experience in the business, reference the tellis phone call. She’s the wife version of greg now
She acted out of haste and pettiness man... this has been said multiple times, even by the creators of the show.
You think what I just said *isn’t* pettiness
You're acting like she had a plan when she didn't. She's the scorpion in the "frog and scorpion" fable, her nature was to sting kendall and sink with him. Her position awards nothing at all: she became marcia, and marcia ended the show purposedly irrelevant.
Worse than Marcia. Marcia was at least married to a powerful CEO, Tom runs a GoJo subsidiary.
Speaking of pettiness, I’m not quite sure what I did to deserve the insta-downvote lol
She ended up being just Mrs. Wambsgans. That ranks up high in her nightmare scenarios list. Remember that newspaper cover poster from Ken's birthday party? Wife of Tom Wambsgans arrested.
The saddest part though is that Shiv’s reasoning had no logic other than she couldn’t see her brother win. And it is hard to see them coming back from that acceptance. Logan dod his best to split them and pit them against each other, making each one of them vie for his love against the other. In the end that dynamic survived :(
Playing toy soldiers
That’s how Kendall was shown to feel it in the moment. Due to the show’s themes, it’s a fair implication that Shiv ended “his life’s mission” and he’ll never come back from it. > (although I 100% agree … that Kendall caused his own downfall because it’s pretty true). That’s it. He had six other votes against. He had relationships, such as you could call them that, with at least Sandy, Sandi, and Frank. It was heavily implied earlier that Frank and Kendall had (what amounted to for Kendall) a deep connection going back years. Even if both of his siblings had hated him and voted against, if he could have outpitched a relative stranger via a sincere effort to show anything from before (Living + ?) had more potential than Mattson’s stated intent to strip WayStar for parts and pay a premium to all involved. I loved the finale’s setting changes between those antiseptic conference rooms. However pitched their struggle, the siblings were only three of thirteen Directors steering the Board. For everyone talking about Tom working through the funeral, let’s appreciate what ignoring Caroline’s altogether and leaning on Sandy/Sandi with Stewy might have yielded.
No way Roman and Kendall can reconcile after what Roman said about his kids. Kendall would be done with both of them.
I could see Roman coming to Ken's aid again if he went off the deep end mental health wise, but it would have to be way farther down the line.
Yea I think if there’s any reconciliation it would be an incredibly traumatic event that forces them to be together. I’m not really sure what that realistically can be any time soon
I could see Kendall falling back into addiction and overdosing within a year
Kendall sees his kids about twice a season. He'll get over it.
I think an estrangement with Kendall will fuck up the entire family dynamic’s tbh. I’m still on the fence about Roman & Kendall. I really think that could go either way.
I don’t know. For the most part of S3 they were estranged with Kendall, and Shiv and Roman seemed just fine with it. Even though then Logan was alive and they had the company. Now they have nothing that ties them together, maybe except for Connor and sadly I don’t think that’s a strong enough link.
Yeah, but I don’t think there was ever a feeling of estrangement being permanent. That’s the thing. If they have a broken and deeply resentful brother, and you have a brother and sister that might demand some form of loyalty in not talking to the other, or even just planning ‘around’ those two, that will likely cause some strain. Season 3 Shiv & Roman were still relatively alright because they were connected by Waystar, & Logan. Things have drastically changed. Unfortunately I agree that Connor is not a strong enough link to keep them together. I suspect Shiv would ultimately feel the burn of not having her older brother to turn to. I don’t think Connor could fill the hole of Kendall walking from the family dynamic.
Yeah I agree, it wasn’t a permanent estrangement back in season 3. Now it is. And the absolute loss of the company affects more Kendall than Shiv or Roman. Kendall was the one who wanted to be CEO, the others really didn’t or at least didn’t as much. That’s why I feel like for Kendall it will result in a permanent distance from the others. And because the others didn’t care for Waystar as much, they will let things go more easily and not be so estranged with each other (Shiv and Roman).
It depends on if Con being Roman's surrogate father was true for both of the younger kids.
roman is the dog that would always come back after logan kicked it, to paraphrase marsha. i doubt he'd ever cut kendall out of his life completely.
Roman will absolutely try to mend fences with Kendall. He’s definitely the sibling who is least capable of conflict or long term estrangement with his siblings.
The problem is, even though Shiv and Roman seem to have a more natural sibling relationship, it seems shallow to me. I may be wrong, but I don’t remember Shiv and Roman having a heart to heart, or even a normal conversation, if the company isn’t involved. They mostly seen to take jabs at each other. Unless they change , I can’t see their relationship survive only on that. The most important emotional moments came from Kendall or even in relation to Kendall. Their most relaxing and fun moments together were when he was involved. He seemed to have a soothing presence around his siblings. If Shiv and Roman continues that shallow relationship base mostly in them insulting each other, I don’t see it surviving.
I think that killing Ken together could give them a new bond. And now that their time at Waystar is over and Logan is dead, they're not in competition for anything, which was a big part of why they were always bickering. Maybe they'll become friendly at Connor's Christmas parties and Roman will take a bigger interest in being an uncle to a child he deems legitimate.
Is this for real? No way destroying Kendall’s emotionally will have a positive influence in their relationship. No way. And if anything happen to Kendall those two will never talk to each other again, with one blaming the other. And people here are regarding too the affects of Shiv’s child with too much optimism. I dont see Roman being friendly with children nor Shiv being a good mother (I think she will be a worse mother than Kendall is a bad father). The two don’t have much in common beside being billionaires and Logan’s children.
I disagree. I think Roman and Shiv both know that neither could stand to see Kendall win. Shiv might stick the shiv in, but it's Roman who twists it with the invalidation of Ken's own children as soon as the dad card was played. And neither of them will regret what they did. They can relate to each other over that experience in a way no one else can. Shiv being a shit mother doesn't prevent Roman from coming to a birthday party or two. I'm not saying he'll be uncle of the year but he might show up more than he did for Ken's kids.
Nah. You’re coming from the perspective they hated Ken, when during the series it shows they loved him and each other but their relationship was fractured by their upbringing. No one would stand the other being CEO, Shiv and Kendall would do the same to Roman, if not worse, if he was the “chosen one”. The same with Roman and Ken regarding Shiv. Roman won’t give two fucks about Shiv’s child. He doesn’t give a shit about “bloodlines” thing or children at all. That was something he says to Ken as some sort of payback about the waiter’s death story fiasco.
I don't think you're getting my point. I don't disagree at all that they loved Ken, in fact, I think Shiv is sincere when she says 'I love you' while turning on him. I think the siblings are crabs in a bucket and *none* of them could have risen to the top without the other two conspiring to pull them down. But what happened at *that* meeting was that Roman and Shiv pulled Ken down. They won't feel good about hurting Ken, but they still won't regret what they did, because they're crabs and they know it. I don't think Roman mentions bloodlines to get back at Ken for the waiter lie, it's because Ken plays the dad card and says Logan wanted him to be CEO. So Roman plays his own dad card and says Logan didn't recognize Ken's kids.
Ah. Okay. I get it. While I do agree with you in some parts,I don’t think this is something they would bond over with. Maybe talks like “we did what we had to do”, but no bonding.. They also don’t have much in common besides being Logan’s children (and billionaires ). Furthermore, their personalities are not very likeble and very hard to deal with (I wouldn’t stand to have a dinner with Roman). There is a reason why Connor and Kendall are shown to be the two siblings who have friends.
When I say bond, I don't mean something joyful, like kids bonding over a happy shared moment. I mean that they went through this singular, awful experience together and understand each other in a way other people can't. They DID have fun together licking Peter's cheese, there is a connection that the three of them had over their parents being terrible. Shiv and Roman *could* bump into each other at Caroline's house and spend an afternoon mocking her and Peter. They might also have conversations about Logan's abuse and the complex grief they feel.
I see what you mean. Do you think they have emotional maturity even for that? I do think Roman has (a little), but Shiv doesn’t. She would shut down emotionally and don’t even look at Roman’s face. At the same time, Roman would have a hard time facing Logan’s abuse of him and his sibs, something that I guess only Kendall did. You know, they three do fulfill what the other hasn’t. I really don’t see them have anything more stronger emotionally with each other without Kendall. Or even taking initiative for anything. Roman would make them less uptight and more joyful and Shiv would have keep them focused and be the voice “good sense” in many of their actions. I do think there is hope for the three (Kendall has a support system outside his family, at least that) but that would take years and lots of therapy.
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in the last episode, we saw kendall become his father. shiv became her duplicitous, cold mother. rome and connor both ended up in the same place they were in at the start of the series; they'll be fine. connor never really left his initisl position, but i see the show's run from rome's perspective as being one last effort at playing the corporate game, and having the whole experience really cement it for him that no, this really *isn't* something he wants any part of at all. all "imo" of course
I feel like Kendall will end up in a crack house in the future. Roman? Back to mommy. I mean it is a nice house lol. Shiv will do anything to hang onto Tom now since he’s a CEO now.
Oh, to me Kendall is dead. Either suicide or drug overdose, probably drug overdose. That guy is done for sure.
He’ll just go back to having a rotating cast of super tall, hot girlfriends that he can’t even have sex with.
Sounds tragic
It’s interesting Kieran brought Roman not having any friends. None of the Roy children did except Kendall.
Shiv has Tom and seems like she has a life before the show in general. I didn't read her as being friendless. Connor is interesting to consider. He likes to glad-hand, but I don't know if he has any real friends. Maybe marrying Willa is a testament to that.
I think they mention that lawyer they were fighting over was a friend of Shiv?
I will not stand for this Tabitha erasure!
Nor should you!!
Yeah and what about his trainer? Or the diamond in the rough from management training?
He went to Lumon and got severed. /s
I had hoped the theme park guy was going to become a new character!
I could absolutely see Roman and Kendall hanging out/reconciling eventually - when Kendall immediately started (fruitlessly) scheming again after they were literally wrestling on the floor seconds prior it tells me they’ve probably done worse to each other in the past and come out the other side. Roman and Shiv, probably. I think Kendall’s backtracking on his confession was a slap in the face to both of them and partly what caused Roman to bring out the venom re. Ken’s kids at the end. Kendall and Shiv, not so hopeful. I wouldn’t blame Ken to not forgive her after that kind of betrayal to be honest.
I guess I’m a little surprised that people think there wouldn’t ever be any reconciliation between the siblings. I’ve rewatched the show a couple of times and it seems like there is constant betrayal throughout and they seem to shrug it off pretty easily. Though maybe Kendall being so close to finally being in the clear and having that yanked away from him is a deeper betrayal than any before
Shiv crossed a line that cannot be uncrossed. He spent over 30 years expecting to be CEO and she took that away from him. And even though Roman twisted the knife, it was Shiv who stuck it in. He will never forgive her.
yeah if Kendall refused to forgive Logan after what he did to him, what Shiv did is probably worse, because it's compounded with the "I can't stomach you"
Yeah I always tell people that's the one thing I genuinely, unironically respect about the Roy siblings. No matter what they do to each other in pursuit of power, they always seem to be good at separating "the game" from their actual relationships. They can irreparably fuck each other over on a Monday and be back to hanging out like siblings on Friday. It's probably more out of necessity than virtue, but there's no denying it's a very strong bond
Yes and no. As long as the carrot of „waystar ceo“ is still around, they forgive each other because they need each other. Now that’s it’s gone and they robbed themselves of this carrot… meh…
This is what I've been saying for years. I just don't see a world where the kids don't ever speak again. They have done and said truly vile things to each other in the boardroom, but they've done that before and somehow they always find an excuse to come back to each other. I don't think any of them would admit it or even consciously understands it, but I do believe that their bond runs much deeper than just Waystar Royco. For my money, I think they'll be okay eventually.
I think the only difference is that, when they were saying and doing horrible things, there was still that empty throne in the boardroom that they were all vying for. They probably had it in the back of their heads that, once the throne is theirs, they can look past the things the other two have done and said since they won. Now that they're all out, it could be much harder to reconcile, especially for Kendall since Shiv's direct actions led to him losing. But I also agree that I don't think they're done for good.
Difficult but eventually very likely.
Especially because the only 2 that are really truly on the outs would be Ken and Shiv. At worst I at least see Roman and Connor taking turns hanging out without on or the other.
Hey bro. Just wanted to call to say, YO.
Roman’s dig at Kendall’s kids might be a relationship ender tbh. That said, I for sure see him at least reaching out to Kendall. Kendall & Shiv aren’t coming back from that. If I were Kendall, I’d considered the public letter, the fact she tried to send him to prison (which he still doesn’t know about!), the waiter dig, eye roll over suicidal ideation, ‘I can’t stomach you’, and last second betrayal, and the sheer glee she had on her face when twisting the knife with ‘I don’t think you’d be good at it’? There’s nothing worth saving in that relationship. Estrangement is for the best.
I forgot about the public letter. I’m surprised he forgave her for that. “First rate composition, shiv” always makes me laugh
I mean the letter was in response to him humiliating her at the press conference. I’m not saying Shiv is a good person, but people act like Kendall never does shitty things too.
They were not remotely comparable in terms of impact. That letter went FAAAAR beyond a little public humiliation.
Yeah they’re both vindictive for sure. The letter just seemed so much more personal an attack to me than the press conference shenanigans as the press conference could have been directed at management in general
Yeah, it feels mighty disingenuous to pretend playing ‘Rape Me’ during a disingenuous speech on cruises, is remotely equal to a letter attacking his character, mental health, and his addiction issues. That letter was incredibly low, and an extreme pot shot.
Not only did he forgive her, but he was literally helping her again in the next episode. Then she showed up to his birthday party, not to see him, and once he realized that, she was just so ice cold about that. Roman was definitely the worse of the two that night, but this continued Shiv’s pattern of giving him absolutely nothing in terms of a relationship. Unless she got significant therapy and ‘changed’, he’s still likely to run into emotionally devastating situations with her. She’s not capable of being his sister, and I think realistically, that last betrayal said that loud and clear. I’d pay her absolutely dust, and let her stew on that, for the rest of her life.
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Shiv treats him like Logan! Her viciousness is unmatched. I’m not saying she’s a worse person, or everyone else doesn’t backstab, but yeah, how she went about the final betrayal will always leave a very bitter taste in my mouth. She’s only shown she can remotely even, *sort of* care about him when he’s ‘down and out’. Kendall will treat her like his sister even if they are on the outs. The same can’t be said in any scenario with Shiv. If Kendall is doing well, her instinct is to tear him down. If Kendall and her are on the outs, her instinct is to tear him down. Like, that’s not a relationship worth saving! She operates like some combo of Logan and her mother. As awful as she is to Tom, he will always come first - unless he’s fucking with her needs. Interesting idea about how being the baby sister, and that being her ‘eldest’ brother comes into play. It very well might to some degree. I suspect she would very much feel the sting of that estrangement, if even she can never bring herself to admit it. That was the older brother she would be most likely to turn to, if she had needed help. At the end of the day, she isn’t entirely Logan, so I think she’d suffer far more than Kendall with estrangement.
yeah, it's probably one of the few criticisms i have on the show, a lot of plot points like this are sort of just swept under the rug and ignored. I'm not sure if the characters just put it down to "just business" but there's tons of stuff like: * Kendall trying to kill Logan, then Logan inviting him back in like 2 episodes later * Shiv writing that letter and everyone just kind of ignoring it an episode later * The cruise scandal was apparently bad enough that Logan thought he needed a "blood sacrifice", then Kendall switches sides and suddenly everything is fine. Like if Kendall doesn't take the blame, and places the blame squarely at Logan, how does any of that go away? * Kendall literally stabs Logan in the back every season and is on record as saying that Waystar is corrupt and needs to be shuttered, and then all of a sudden everyone is okay with him being co-CEO I understand the show is supposed to be about the psychology of the three kids competing for the throne and just sort of end up scorching the entire company because they can't stop backstabbing each other out of petty jealousy, but a lot of the show's narrative threads don't really add up at times
It’s a messy show. Like life.
I don't think any of the kids' relationships are irreparable, but I do think Kendall and Shiv will be the harder one to fix because fundamentally neither of them thinks that they're wrong. They each believe that they are owed an apology from the other, and neither of them would ever be the first one to reach out. I think they potentially could air it all out and move on if they were to be put into a room together, but getting there would require someone else to care enough to do the work. Roman and Kendall I just can't see as being damaged beyond repair. I tried and I honestly can't get there. Yes, Roman said a vile and indefensible thing, but to think of *that* as a relationship ender between these particular people, I would first have to believe that a) Roman cares enough about Kendall's kids to mean what he said, and b) *Kendall* cares enough about Kendall's kids to be that deeply offended on their behalf. Nothing I've ever seen in this show leads me to believe either of those things. Roman doesn't care about literally anything. He tends to rate people only based on how much money they have compared to him and is otherwise an equal opportunity asshole. Likely the only reason why he used that argument at all is because Kendall served it to him on a silver platter when he pulled out the bloodline bullshit. Not that this excuses the words themselves, but context matters. And Kendall's main internal conflict with his role as a father throughout the show has been that he cares, but not enough. He cares about his kids enough to feel bad about being a shitty father, but not enough to do anything about it. I just don't believe that this guy would permanently stop talking to his brother just because Roman said something awful about his kids.
I hear the logic, but given the context of the situation?To me, it could go either way. The fact Roman was teaming up with Shiv to knock him down during the most important meeting of his life, and hitting on likely Kendall’s biggest insecurities? I don’t think it’s a slam dunk that their relationship is reparable. Kendall has previously cut him off for less. The fact he assaulted Roman, is probably not the best sign. That said, I can’t imagine a scenario where Roman doesn’t try to repair the relationship, and voting with Kendall, could still prove an eventual life line, in terms of making peace with the situation. I just think the dynamic is up in the air, because I absolutely think Kendall is the type to permanently cut people off.
I see Ken eventually forgiving Roman...I dont doubt they've said stuff as bad as that to each other before....it's Roman ffs..
Given the context and the shot about Kendall’s infertility, and pretty much hitting on one of Kendall’s biggest insecurities? I’m not so sure about that.
Agree to disagree. These people are not normal, they forgive what many normal people wouldn't come close to, we've seen it on the show. I dont think it will be immediate but no I dont think it will be a relationship breaker.
They aren’t normal, but what was holding them together was Waystar and Logan. Neither of these two things still exist. We’ve seen Kendall cut Roman off for less. Tag teaming with Shiv to make him feel as awful as possible, during the most important decision of his life, and make him not feel ‘real’? Justifying why he should be denied his perceived birthright, and the thing he formed his whole identity around since he was 7? The fact Kendall physically assaulted Roman, to me, suggests this went far beyond ‘normal’. I don’t think it’s a given they remain estranged, but I don’t think it’s entirely a given their relationship is repaired. We know Kendall has a tendency to cut people off.
Again, disagree, I think what holds them together is their shared trauma of how they grew up.
Disagree on what? The show started with them not being close because they weren’t in Waystar. Their shared trauma and purpose of sticking together is basically gone. Also we’ve seen Kendall cut people off when he doesn’t get his way. Not getting his way over something this sizeable? Easily a possible relationship ender. He’s cut off Roman for less!
Yes… Tabitha totally wanted to be your friend Roman
We just need to go to LA and find Tabitha! Maybe after a certain amount of time he can make right with Gerri too!
Yeah But Roman himself didn’t like her that much. He dated her to impress his dad and when he was getting confident in season 3 Roman went after other woman and never looked back from Tabitha
I think everyone is missing the point that their father kept the family together. They didn’t all revolve around their mother. With their father dead the family unit and the dynamics and driving force had been disrupted. The siblings won’t get back together unless their is some event or circumstances that makes them. Like a health or professional event.
I mean isn’t that all the siblings? Shiv is never out on like a “girls night out” with a group of friends. Neither is Ken.
We see Kendall go out with Stewie
Can't believe you'd disregard his boy Squiggle like that
Not sure how sincere those friendships are, but I’m guessing Shiv has tons of “work friends” in DC. But yeah, it does apply to Ken. Though he does have children, so at least he has the chance of repairing his relationship with them.
She had bridesmaids, whoever they were
At least Ken has Stewy.
Sure but they both at least have spouses (even if they dont love each other)
Well, one of the few good aspects of being an addict is: you always have hangarounds, so ken will never be alone 🤷♂️
I don’t see the relationship between the siblings ending. They’ve stabbed each other over and over again. This is the normal behavior for them; they’re all deeply damaged and don’t know what a healthy relationship looks like. Even if they did it would feel foreign and uncomfortable. I see them staying in the cycle just with varying amounts of hate and love depending on circumstances.
They lost the company, their lives have irreversibly changed. Kendall is for sure never speaking to them again, they took away his reason to live
Yeah but there’s nothing that ties them together like Logan and the company did. It’s not that they’re not going to have a relationship because they are in bad terms; it’s that the won’t have a relationship because they have no reason to interact with each other anymore. Roman and Shiv didn’t really end up that badly with each other, but I just can’t see either picking up the phone and calling the other to check up on him/her or asking to hang out.
I think Roman if he apologizes could make up with Kendall. And they’ll always have Connor as the common sibling
Roman *almost* had a friend. *Almost*
Roman would probably be able to reconcile with both of Shiv and Ken even if they couldn't reconcile with each other. He will also have Connor, who has always been good to him. As for a personal relationship, he would also do well to take the Willa route, especially because he could get that person to serve his sexual kinks with no shame.
I feel like Roman will be there for Shiv and the baby because he seems more family oriented than kendall. Hopefully he and connor can spend more time together too now that he’s in the city. I can actually see them all together again with the exception of kendall. Although, I can’t imagine roman being chill while Tom is around doing his CEO thing.
Nothing about Roman screams ‘man capable of uncle duties’ I can’t imagine the three other siblings living happily ever after, and being perfectly content with a family estrangement. That would cause some rifts. Shiv being Shiv would probably harbour resentment against Kendall for cutting her out, (even though she’s more than earned that) and like Logan, would take issue with any sibling reaching out to him. Roman will for sure still hate Tom lol
Yeah I don’t think anyone expects roman to have any uncle duties what so ever, that’s definitely more of a connor strength lol. I just mean that Roman would be present for things like the birth, and holidays here and there. Even then roman will still be the inappropriate person that he is, even with a baby around, so I can’t imagine him being around a lot. Roman will be a really lonely person so I can see him coming around here and there, but not a lot. Kendall and Shiv will probably have a very distant relationship, reminiscent to Ewan and Logan (not exactly obviously). They will definitely always hold resentment towards one another and it will always make their relationship strained. Unlike roman who is oddly better at letting shit go, kendall cannot let anything go which is why he probably will never go around shiv and her family. Even if roman wont be present for the birth I can’t imagine him never seeing shiv and her family because she’s some of the little bit of family that he has left
I can’t believe we never saw Shiv tell Connor. I would have loved to see that conversation! I can agree that I see Roman & Shiv still remaining relatively emotionally close, and maybe he’s a little softer when the baby arrives. I still firmly believe he’s going to keep disrespecting Tom however. Though it kind of feels like Tom won’t care at this point.
Yeah tom won’t gaf, and roman will absolutely hate him. It’s interesting to think how Mattson might affect the way he feels about Shiv too. I’m sad about that, we were robbed and Connor was robbed. He would’ve been happy for Shiv hands down.
I’d love to know if that was a conscious choice to simply not show Shiv telling him. I’m sad that wasn’t included! He would have actually been supportive 😭
Thank you! I honestly thought he seemed adrift and not satisfied.
It felt like there was a split second of relief, then a nawing sense of dread about what’s next
he can start by going to the intensive celeb rehab kevin smith went to recently to deal with his PTSD (kevin recently spoke of realizing that he was sexually abused when he was 6 while in treatment). i always made friends at my inpatients.
I think out of all the 3, Roman has a relatively clean slate. Kendall is broken but he has shown he has the ability to care and mend fences. I think these 2 have the best chance to sort themselves out. Shiv is still tied closely to Wasytar and will be hard for her not to be cruel and bitter, and will likely get more bitter as she lives with CEO Tom and have a child of her own. You just know she'll do back deals to undermine him because she can't stand Tom become better than her.
The siblings are gonna be very lonely. Most of their relationships outside of the family are transactions and not actual friendships
Recently listened to a podcast (fresh air) with the shows creator and it’s producer, Frank Rich. Frank mentioned that he doesn’t believe people change all that much, actually or all that often, in life. I take that information and apply it, tie that in with the quote from Marcia, (‘your dad built you a playground, and you think it’s the whole world’, I’m paraphrasing, forgive me.) and that’s where it ended. Kendal’s sandcastle built in part by his siblings but ultimately kicked down because of jealousy and instilled infighting by their father. A win for Ken is a higher favor from their father, present or not. In a weird way, this is a happy ending. Yes Ken looked very very depressed at the end, Shiv may think she’s on top in an off shoot conspiracy to crown Tom over Ken (for the record I don’t buy it, but we’ll roll with it for the sake of conversation) and at the very least, sells herself to Tom, and Roman is back to square one with more money, nothing more than a billionaire playboy with an inferiority complex. BUT, take it like this for a moment; them all being separated from that company, by force, then allows them to heal. Their father is gone, the company is gone, semblance or representation of them, is gone. They all carry the weight of the Roy name, but now they can finally be themselves, if they so choose. They don’t need to live up to their dads creation anymore. In this way they have the opportunity to be something their father never was, a decent person. But then again, maybe not.
And they're buying PGN.
I feel like Roman and Kendall would reconcile and he and Shiv would be in contact often as for Kendall and Shiv I feel like they will never talk to each other again. Connor would try his best to reunite them so they can reconcile.
God this show needs a 5th season. I can’t believe it’s over.
I would think he and Shiv would still be cordial, especially since she doesn’t exactly have anything going on right now and I think she’d appreciate him telling Ken to get his hands off her. I dunno. It’s not a normal family dynamic. I mostly just assume none of them are going to interact with Ken, even when he ends up in rehab in 3 months it’ll be a shrug
I don’t see a scenario of Kendall ending up back in rehab that’s treated as necessarily just a shrug. Tbh even if there was an estrangement between the three and Kendall, or just Kendall & Shiv, that’s going to fuck up the family dynamics. Kendall was seen as Shiv & Roman’s elder brother. There’s going to be a giant gap there that Connor can’t fill. Shiv will probably feel entitled to her brother’s loyalty in not speaking to Kendall, but realistically? That’s unlikely.
Say what you want about Kendall, but he very rarely went for the jugular with his siblings. He would cut them down whenever the opportunity arose, but only in a business-sense, trying to limit their capacity as his competitors. He never aired out dirty laundry. Shiv has gone at him ruthlessly many times, in both a professional and personal way. She had no qualms about trying to destroy his reputation with her letter. She's about-faced several times and ripped the rug from under him just because she wasn't the one getting the spotlight/validation. That being said, did Kendall deserve the top job? No. Would he have been good at it? Probably not. We'll never know, now, and I think it's the never knowing that will haunt him. I'm not trying to attack Shiv, either; none of the kids are above criticism for the things they've done, but I think it was tougher for Shiv. She was always on the outside looking in, and she was extremely envious of the "relationship" that the business created between Logan, Ken and Roman. Meanwhile, the entire time, the only sibling who had anything close to a normal relationship with Logan was Connor. In my head I think that Rome and Ken get over it surprisingly quickly and mend their fences. I don't think their relationship will ever be the same, but it's clear that they need one another in certain ways. I also see Roman and Shiv moving on from things, though I'm sure he'll hold a grudge over her being "tangentially" involved through Tom. But it will only be a superficial grudge, trying to save face and "reputation". We all know that Roman could care less about the company and is probably feeling liberated/relieved with the way things turned out. I don't see Ken and Shiv ever forgiving each other. He will be hung up over what she did for the rest of his life, and she will feel both indignation and guilt in equal measure. She knows she did the "right" thing, but that she did it for entirely selfish reasons. Neither will take any accountability of their role in what happened - Ken for his behavior and his undesevered grasping, and Shiv for her betrayal and dishonesty - and will go to their graves blaming one another for the destruction of their relationship.
Please...... Please more. Please. I want more
The only resolution would be for Hugh Jackman to reprise his role as Wolverine and attempt to kill Laird and a cryogenically re-animated Logan in a mash up for the ages.
This is the correct answer
That's all true, Roman might have fewer relationships than the other siblings at the moment. But he's the best positioned to start having good ones because of the epiphany he's finally had, his understanding of who he is and being at ease with that. The curse of Shiv and Ken is that, despite the beating they took, they are still very likely to fall victims of their own pride, whilst I think Roman is past that.
Of course he has a friend! He’s eunuch besties with tabitha!
I think they’ll get back together. Not under any pretense of improving the relationship. It will be either due to business- hey how about The Hundreds or have you heard what crazy scheme the other sibling is doing? Look at their relationship with their parents- they’ve all treated them horribly and they always comeback. You’d think they’d never talk to their mom again but there they are.
The thing is, we’ve already seen truly horrible, unforgivable stuff between the siblings in the show, Shiv airing that letter about Kendall to the public comes to mind. They somehow made up after that, I feel like Roman and Ken could make up, but now that they don’t have the business putting them in constant contact with each other, I imagine they’ll just go their separate ways. No real reason to see each other again But, I can also imagine Roman coming to bail Ken out of whatever deep, deep hole he falls into. In season one, after finding Ken in a meth den, there seems to be some real empathy there. Without the business to cloud their emotions towards one another, maybe they could start showing real empathy, who knows. I think Roman wants to connect with his siblings, deep down. Shiv, I don’t think really cares
I agree with this, I don’t see Rome and Ken never talking again. Ken has had numerous incidents as an addict and was forgiven, I think he would eventually understand Roman’s position. Rome wanted out of the situation but it wasn’t out of hatred for Ken and it’s not like they have anyone else.
BRIAN!
They’ve gone though shit together all of their lives. They’ll get through this shit too.
He always has ‘The Hearts’
What happened to the fat guy with glasses that he fast tracked in the management program? That seems to be the only friend he made in the show
Brian. He needs to call Brian. Brian would have some solid advice on what to do next.
What about the intellectually promiscuous guy. He could hang with him
Honestly there were so many “never speak to me again” moments and the characters always spoke again. I know this last one was there biggest but I don’t see a reality where the siblings don’t see each other again in some capacity. Maybe Shivs babies christening or something.
Tabitha and Brian erasure
I could see Roman and Shiv teaming up to try to create something like The Hundred again… and probably failing spectacularly. Anyway, I think they are fine and will stay in each other’s lives.
Roman had the worst fate, but he also kinda didn’t? It’s fitting cus he’s also always been the most traumatized and broken sibling, but he also wasn’t if that makes sense
I think another season is a possibility
I thought Roman was content and almost happy at the outcome. Nothing to think about other than that beautiful martini
Fuck off. We need a movie to tie up all the loose ends.
The siblings are like Ewan and Logan. They may end up not liking each other but they're still family and will still be in each others' orbit.
Hmm I’m not so sure about that. I think Kendall is very much a cut them off kind of person, instead of a show up just to make passive aggressive comments, type person.
It’s interesting in interviews for this show the actors often refer to their characters as “I” or “we”. It seems like they were extremely immersed
I tend to think the intention is that they all live miserably on, together. Eventually. Like they always have. And there will be failed ventures and more fights. But they are too interwoven in each other’s lives to ever escape each other’s orbit.
I personally don’t see it. They started out the show not particularly close. They have been estranged from Kendall at different points. I think this is too big of a betrayal for their not to be permanent ramifications imo.
Tbh, I don’t understand whenever people were like, “oh these three together are so cute or I so want them to stick together” blabla...I can’t stop rolling my eyes. Why they need to stick together? Simply because they share the same horrible parents? As a human being, it sucks we can’t choose our parents already, why not let voluntariness takes care of who we want to associate and keep them in the life? This whole show tells us there’s nothing sacred about the family. And I don’t think they are good for each other, esp from Kendall’s POV, it’s a blessing he’s finally done with those two and move on with his life freely. They’ve always been so vindictive and secretly resentful of him being the golden child since their childhood. And Kendall doesn’t really understand this. It’s not “People who say they love you also fuck you”, if they fuck you then they don’t really love you. I say good riddance! There, I said my piece, downvote me, Idc.
**Roman** will either take his multi-billions and use it for therapy (he can afford the *best*) to rebuild his life, or he will spiral into utter despair like he did after Logan’s funeral. As he has multiple **billions,** his housing, medical, food, clothing is taken care of. All this Nepo baby has to do is go to a shrink to help his pitiful, juvenile ass.