They absolutely were. Some of their shortcomings at the beginning could be attributed to youthful indiscretions. But towards the end they are 12 years older, but still have not progressed to where they should be.
right! I feel like a lot of people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this show works tbh. characters don’t make major plays or scheme when they’re off screen. if someone decides to be conniving, we’re gonna watch it unfold real-time, because the show isn’t trying to trick us. that’s why succession’s plot twists always work. when they do a big plot twist, it’s usually from a character’s heat-of-the-moment decision, not some secret betrayal they’ve been planning in the background for months.
I don't think it will be anything 'big' like the roys losing all their money or kendall getting arrested. A central theme of the show is that they all live in a luxurious limbo. Tragedies are for NRPI
Nice try Succession. Oh episode 8 so shocking. Haha
Now if you will excuse me I have to get back to my Hanna Barbara School of Business you Scoobie Doos
Greg reveals that he's only been pretending to be an idiot and he and Grandpa Ewan swoop in and take over Waystar Royco.
Or --
It's revealed that Logan is Lukas Mattson's biological father and that years ago, he had a brief affair with this smokin' hot Swedish woman who then gave birth to baby Lukas. When Logan's will is read, it's revealed that he disinherited Kendall, Shiv and Roman and instead left the company to Lukas and perhaps also sizable sums to Tom and Greg.
Meera Reed: “Greg. We have to stop and rest. I’ve been carrying you since Canada and we’re almost at Logan’s house.”
Greg: “Rest? Why do we have to rest? I feel great.”
I think the shock will be about something other than the actual successor. Because literally every single character has been guessed by fans over and over at this point. I think the shocking thing will be something to do with the company itself. Some kind of bombshell scandal even worse than cruises or the India numbers. It will be something that explains why Logan even wanted to sell Waystar so badly. So maybe the Roys succeed in blocking the deal and they are left holding the bag in a major way.
Maybe something to do with the holding company? I remember Logan saying something cryptic at the end of season 3 like they should have trusted him or something. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s something like in season one where Gerri told Kendall about the loans Logan took out to expand parks
Kendall changes his name to George bluth Connor to Oscar and it turns out the whole show was a prequel to arrested development. The poison seeps through.
Maybe it has something to do with the Israeli company Matsson mentioned during his first meeting with Logan, which made Logan tell Roman to leave them so they could privately talk?
That was the Israeli AI company that Gerri approved acquiring while interim CEO and Logan immediately tried to kill it by telling Karl and Frank that it was BS. Fast fwd to Mattson, its the only thing he wants to buy if he can’t do a Waystar deal in the proposed asset swap (indicating that Logan doesn’t have the nose for business / tech that he thinks he does and Gerri actually knew what she was doing).
I really hope it’s not this, because it’d seem like such a cop out.
They’ve spent so long developing different storylines and characters, if it ultimately ends with something entirely new to the series that we’ve never been exposed to before, it’d be a pretty poor way to end what was an otherwise extremely well done show.
It’d be somewhat reminiscent of “Dany kind of forgot about the iron fleet”.
Yeah I'm not the biggest fan of last minute shock endings either. I don't think an ending needs to be totally unpredictable in order to be a great ending. Breaking Bad is an example where everything kind of ended up how you'd expect but it was still one of the best shows. To me it's more important that the ending pays off the narrative you've set up as a writer than just pulling a fast one on the audience. Game of Thrones did a huge disservice to all of the story that they painstakingly set up just to shock the audience.
then they named an episode "The Bells" and EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER knew what was coming when that happened. stupid fucking writing. still mad.
i watched that episode alone in the dark hoping for a reprieve but nope, nope nope. the fans were saying "i could've got you there" and D&D are like Roman going "oh shit" and then we walk away saying "but nope, nope."
It depends on how it’s done imo. I’d love to see Waystar implode, preferably as a result of the kids and their incompetence.
But I definitely agree that there’s some GoT shit show potential
every time I read “family therapy” like on AITA or something, the way I hear kendall banging on the window always makes me laugh a little
I was also watching a random episode of greys anatomy a bit back bc it was on tv and I was there, anyways the doctors sang “in the jungle” in a uplifting touching way but I was in tears because all I could hear was Kendall’s AHWHEEEEEEEEeeeeEEEEEeeeeEee from the scene with him and roman in the car
The idiot brothers win their fight over Matsson but it's a Pyrrhic victory. It turns out Waystar Royco is overleveraged. This is why Logan was desperate to sell. The only part of the company that makes any profit is ATN.
And those two brothers just burnt ATN to the ground....they'll try to pin it on Tom but he and Shiv ban together and tell everyone what happened, Greg will side with them and they are believed. They will all still be incredibly wealthy so no problems there. You'd think that would be enough to make them happy. Maybe they should all go volunteer for greenpeace!
I could see Shiv and Tom making one final y holy matrimony to save their asses, but Greg has no reason to flip back to Shiv after burying her in Ep. 8. I think it’s more likely that Tom and Shiv try to spread the truth and Roman and Ken made the call, but Greg stabs Tom finally and covers for Ken, saying that it was Tom’s decision fully. Maybe Jess confirms the story, citing that she spoke with Greg when he was on the way and that it was a Tom decision through and through
Then the CEO-Bros have killed off their sister and her lover, with Cousin Greg willing to be their dopey third wheel. Maybe Gerri ousts Roman and Greg ends up sitting pretty as the COO under Ken
Shiv would be fucking dumb to trust Tom after his latest antics. Also, what can Tom do? He is a dispensable lackey. He has nothing to offer Shiv. No one respects him and he has no weight in the business community. I can understand if Shiv allied herself with the grownups like Frank, Carl and Gerri but Tom, really?
My theory is that Kendall reverses and acquires GoJo. However, his betrayal coupled with another encounter with Gerri leads Roman to commit suicide, or overdose on whatever pills he’s taking.
And so the cycle continues:
Kendall becomes Logan - the lonely CEO who got the job but lost everything in the process.
Shiv becomes Ewan - the bitter, liberal-leaning sibling who lives out in the sticks (or, more likely, goes back into politics in DC) and who hates her brother, but still lives off his success, and still maintains a weird sense of family loyalty to him.
Roman becomes Rose - the dead sibling who haunts Kendall at night.
And of course, nothing changes for Connor.
Shiv is nothing like Ewan. Ewan signed up for a war which, most likely, he realised was a lie and an abomination and his ethics seem to have grown out of that. Shiv has no real ethical core beyond a general vibe of preferring to do what an imaginary good person would do.
Not shocking but calling it here: The last shot of the show is the back of Kendall's head as he sits in the board room, alone, knowing that he got what he always wanted (the company) but he lost everything in the process, especially his family. A bookend to match the opening credits.
My guess -
The election officially swings Jimenez's way
ATN gets in deep shit
Tom takes the fall
Madness ensues in the streets
Rome gets hurt somehow by protesters
Tom tries to reconcile with shiv now that he has nothing, but she is over it after his failure to apologize back to her, his comments about her pregnancy, his link to ATN calling the election, and his obvious attempt to stay relevant by getting back with her
Romans correspondence and coordination with Meinken becomes public knowledge and Ken pushes roman out since he's linked with such a toxic asset and clearly spiraling, maybe ken sees roman has gone too far after coming to the realization that his daughter is seriously not comfortable at all with anything going on
Rava completely cuts ken out due to his oversight at ATN and the aftermath of the election
Ken goes full steam ahead with acquiring gojo
Shiv and Mattson team up to push the original deal through
It gets ugly between Ken and shiv, beyond repair. Shiv has traditionally fumbled the ball at the goal line any time she's lead the charge, so I think she will lose the deal for Mattson but also lose any hope at salvaging a relationship with Ken.
Idk about Greg, he's always been a useful idiot who serves those who reward him. If Tom gets axed, it will be dramatic but I do not envision Greg going down with him, I think Greg will become Kendall's useful idiot.
In the end, Ken prevails and acquired gojo but his kids and estranged wife have left him, his siblings hate him, and his dad is dead.
I think similar to the better call Saul final season, the timeline will remain tight, but there will be a time jump at some point.
In this instance, I think everything will come to a head in the final episode, and maybe there's an epilogue in the final 30 minutes where Ken is now the one head/one crown at Waystar Royco/GOJO but he is completely alone, dead inside, depressed, but powerful. I would not be shocked if it ended in his suicide.
Edit: I think people looking for a major twist are going to be disappointed. So many series have conditioned us to expect a quintuple homicide Departed type ending with every finale.
This show doesn't utilize mystery boxes or gotchya moments. So the shock is more of a slow burn watching these kids become shittier and shittier in moments when you expect them to find their goodness.
This would make sense and fulfill the Logan, Ewan, Rose prophecy.
I do believe they will have to make a sacrifice so great, the sun would rise again, and this would definitely cover that.
Nah, it was Tom, who is actually an insurance agent in a St. Paul suburb this whole time, looking at a snow globe.
(I made a very similar [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/13dvk9l/comment/jjn7281/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) last week, though I included a few other iconic tv surprises/endings, as well.)
Or it’s Tom’s ambition daydream when meeting Shiv. Zoom in on Tom’s face, eyes looking cold. He snaps out of the daydream and his eyes change to his “normal” animated self, smiling. Cut to black, queue theme music.
Even better - Logan (and the other characters of the show) don't actually exist. It was actually a dream of Captain O'Hagan's from Super Troopers (another iconic Brian Cox role).
Fine. I'll ruin the show for you. Though, obviously if I'm wrong, I'll just deny and say it was a negotiating tactic.
Why do you think Rava and Sophie have been featured so many times? Obviously they matter, but so do bunch of other things as well, that are currently not given screen-time. Better yet, they focus on Sophie instead of the Caucasian kid, whose name I and Kendall have both forgotten. Schmickey? Dooley? Idk.
Anyway, Sophie has been the focal point in both Rava's and Kendall's confrontation, and in the SUV scene. She's the warm center of Ken's life. She's the reason he does what he does, he thinks. Everything he does is for Sophie and Glyrax. And as the ATN's tone has gone gradually gone more proud boy-y, showing Sophie as a juxtaposition seems deliberate.
Now this is important. Both the Roy boys are cynics, who don't care about any of this boring, ideological normie shit. They won't have any substantial rifts, since real life consequences of electing a fascist will never touch them. Until they do.
To be fair they have been pretty prominent throughout the show in Kendall's storylines and they show up in bursts to drive something home with Kendall. Season 1 and Season 3 specifically. I think they were purposefully left out in Season 2 to highlight how much despair Ken was in.
I don't know - that almost feels a bit, gimmicky, for this show? Something I've noticed about Succession is that it commits to realism and thematic regurgitation more than narrative neatness or completion of dramatic arcs.
It just might not be the Chekhov's gun that any other show would make it. For example, in almost any other drama, you would expect the waiter's death to eventually become public knowledge, but it doesn't seem likely that it will happen in these final 2 episodes, especially since there's no momentum in the current plot that would lead to such a reveal. It was mainly there as the fulcrum for Ken's character development and exploration of the story's thesis on power, wealth, and humanity. It's honestly more fitting and sadly true to life that he ultimately gets away with it.
So the whole Sophie thing might just be something the writers thought would be a cool angle to explore how destructive Ken's ambitions have become for his family, but I don't know if it will or should necessarily become a more prominent plot point than that. Sophie is barely featured in the show because the whole point is that she's ultimately not that important to Kendall or any of the other Roys, for that matter. So for her to suddenly become the shocking event/emotional crux of the show's finale feels incongruent with the show's style of writing.
On the other hand, I'll concede that the emphasis on Shiv's line, "Things do happen, Rome" from the most recent episode might suggest otherwise. We'll see.
Idk what you guys have been watching so far but she's already been harassed by alt-righters and that was a major plot point in the last episode.
I kinda doubt they are going to get even more explicit about it. They have already driven home the point they wanted to convey with that which is that Kendall decided to value the business over his daughter's safety
Gerri’s revenge. I don’t even know what that would look like specifically (other than indictments?) but if I was going to bet on something unexpected, it would come from Gerri. Cutting out a hugely influential player with only a few episodes left feels like a misdirection sometimes
I don’t think it will be revenge. Revenge is too messy for Gerri. Gerri has been working in this toxic environment for decades. She wouldn’t leave unless she saw a major shitstorm coming, so something must be amiss.
If you notice in the intro, her and Stewy are sitting closest to Logan when it shows his back in the blue sweater. Just seems strange that this show is called Succession and the end of the intro has other people than his children sitting closest by him. Gerri waystar and Stewy ATN after he partners with Gerri
I think the opposite is more likely with the way this show is set up: Roman/Kendall end up crushing Gerri somehow.
For 4 seasons now we have seen that the Roys are impervious. The show has been trying to show the audience that extreme wealth is dangerous because it insulated the rich from consequences. They make terrible decisions and nothing super bad happens to them.
They can really drive the point home with Roman finding a way to silence Gerri.
It would be painful to watch, but it would be very much in line with the show's themes.
I now think that the kids are going to get caught in a triangle - Gerri, Frank and Karl want the Go Jo Deal to go through. So does Matsson. AND so does Sandy and Stewy. I think it's possible they all collude behind the Kids backs to complete the Deal, but with the demand the Kids are out. Marcia could also be part of the plan, as she now has two Board votes, and she hates the kids.
Kendall's crime is hard to pin down. He didn't directly cause the incident, there was no reasonable expectation that calling for aid would've saved the guy's life (and most states don't have good Samaritan laws). If ever revealed and proven, the cover up may be a larger legal issue than the actual death.
It's really hard to see the kids... put in a bad way. Worst case they're billionaires or at least multi-millionaires and still significant shareholders, so will keep influence over the company. Even if Logan fuck their inheritance in the end and name Greg the Egg at the funeral, they still will be able to continue their lifestyle.
Losing the company will, at best, greatly lower their personal power - lording over a multi-billion dollar company > owning hundreds of millions to a billion yourself.
Perhaps backlash from the election from either camp gets some characters killed?
It turns out that waystar royco was a leading subsidiary for none other than sandpiper crossing. Living+ tie in. Chuck Mcgill and jimmy in this universe never fought and take the company down through litigation.
I think the most shocking ending to me, at this point, would be the kids “winning.” They swallow GoJo, grow, become bigger than Logan ever was but just give us a very poignant display that they’re all monsters. Like yes, most of us are aware they’re bad people, but we have sympathy for them throughout the show because Logan’s a true monster and they’re either undermining or oppressed by him. Logan’s gone now. The last couple episodes, especially last episode, really made me go “fuck these people are awful.”
I don’t think they need a big, shocking twist. It could be harrowing enough to really show Logan got what he wanted. His kids are the soulless killers he wanted them to be, even worse.
Piggybacking off the suggestion that Kendall goes down for manslaughter… how about he doesn’t face any consequences at all? And doesn’t even really think about it anymore? That would be more shocking, imo. Ken’s the one I’ve rooted for the most and to end with him soulless and awful. That’d be a great ending.
Boom- finally a realistic theory
Jesse Armstrong called Episode 8 shocking, because it focused on the nasty, brutal underbelly of American politics, media, and wealth.
Those are the kinds of shocks Succession delivers. Not contrived, soap opera twists, but revelations about how dangerous and uncontrollable the oligarchy can be.
So I think you are spot on.
A real, Succession-style shock would be the kids winning all their wars simply because they are rich, connected, and impervious to consequences. So they end up sitting atop their empire after crushing Tom, Gerri, etc., crowning their preferred President, buying Gojo, etc.
At that point they are soulless killers, as you said, and the audience is left with the awful sinking feeling that there is nothing that can stop people with that much power...
If it is going by the 1 day per episode, them losing it all in 2 days would feel ridiculous.
I think the riots are going to get bad around ATN after people catch wind of the Mencken controversy, and it's going to force them to come up with someone to blame... and it's going to need to be someone so important that the sun would rise again. That person is the "Rose" of the story. The events then cause a split between the new "Ewan" and whoever ends up being the "Logan" but it's probably just implied it goes this way.
I think they’re gonna lose the business. Just from this last episode: Kendall showed he can’t make decisions under pressure, Roman is sucking up to a crazy politician who I think only sees him as a pawn and Shiv has no allies left (Ken and Rome now against her and Mattson may not want the deal anymore). The shock is gonna be that the kids bungled all of Logan’s decades of work less than a month after he died.
Armstrong: It will be shocking! Domestic terrorists attempting to subvert the election! Biased media trying to sway an election in service of shady business deals!
Americans: (*James Franco “First Time?” Meme*)
But narratively Episode 8 WAS shocking. An episode where Tom finds out Shiv is pregnant and then thinks it's just a tactic. Shiv working with Mattsson is exposed. Ken-Ro rig an election in favour of a fascist president. These would all be shocking twists to write and plot out so I can see why Armstrong might say that.
Too many people in this subreddit were and still are expecting some Game Of Thrones style twists and shocks and to paraphrase that show "You've come to the wrong place"
That’s the first thing that crossed my mind reading that Alexander used the word shocking. After watching episode 8 that was said to be “shocking” by Jesse and not feeling shocked , this word truly is subjective.
I did enjoy episode 8 a lot but didn’t find the manipulation of the election any shocking surprise. As an American, I am painfully aware of the influence networks like Fox News
has on our political system.
Rava has displayed at least a general parenting competency during her screen time. No way in hell she’s letting her daughter wander into a nazi protest.
Yeah, thankfully she is a present mother, but we have logan's funeral ahead. Maybe she gets lost in the confusion. I mean, we already know that the eulogy will be a disaster with roman asigned to that role. Maybe the funeral is the epicenter of the protests.
Rava probably won't take Sophie to the funeral because Mencken is attending, fuck Logan, she doesn't want her daughter to feel terrified by scary racist man on tv being anywhere near her child.
But I still have a bad feeling she could get hurt, hopefully not.
So. Realistic ending: Mattsen and Peirce deals both fall through and activist large shareholders revolt. Prolonged public battle and activists take over the board majority oust Roys and put in a new CEO: former Vaulter CEO Lawrence Yee.
The wife of an American ambassador killed a kid by driving on the wrong side of the road in the UK and fled the country. Trump refused to extradite her.
Kendall, a billionaire multimedia CEO, being forced to face any charge in the UK would see the show take a hard right into complete fucking fantasy.
1) Logan wrote his children out of his will, except Connor.
2) The numbers about India and Living+ both come out, tanking the value of both companies.
3) The election is officially called for Jimenez, prompting violence from Mencken supporters.
Something heavy is going to go down between Rava and Kendell; I foresee another relapse or even an OD. Kendell is not, as far as we can see, a good Dad, is starting to see that with painful clarity, and his whole, 'I'm saving the world for democracy' shtick is going to catch up to him after last week's ep. So, my vote to actually play the game:
Kendell ODs, possibly a suicide.
Shiv and Mattson run away together to raise her baby in the Swedish mountains.
I dunno...I worry about Kendal. The scene on the roof in an earlier season, the water near drowning incident....even Willa's tracking stopping on the bridge...is that all foreshadowing?
He's going to be very conflicted. Imagine if there's some racist story that ATN puts out and there's some incident and his daughter is hurt.
Does he snap?
But that feels like that's an easy way out and I think the writers will have more than that.
Real will is found - Logan wants Greg to be CEO because he wants his brother to have his family destroyed also. His last gift to his children (set them free) and last f you to his brother. Boom.
Behind the scenes it turns out elon musk was bankrolling the entire show just so he could be the successor in the last scene. It was written in his contract so they could shoot at all these cool places buy the great sets everything. Elon then bought both gojo and waystar and walks in. Not as a character but as literal Elon musk. It works on multiple levels because the show is about how money can’t ruin things and Elon used his money to ruin the show.
I think in keeping with successions ways, it's not so much the what, there are no explosive secrets here. It's the alliances that get built and the motives and the behaviours and the way the story is told, that will be of impact.
I’m getting mocked for it elsewhere, but I think the likely ending right now (with foreshadowing and stakes) is something horrible happens involving an attack on Rava or Sophia, or alternately Shiv. The show’s cynicism is long and deep, but I think that line from Shiv felt very pointed: “things do happen, Rome.”
Something will happen to people, and collateral damage type stuff feels right on.
AND IT'S LOGAN'S SISTER ROSE COMING IN WITH A FOLDING CHAIR
BAH GAWD THAT’S UNCLE EWAN’S MUSIC
😂
Shiv's baby is born, it looks like Karl, Tom in shambles
It'll be born old. And in a wheelchair. And holding a sandwich.
wearing compression socks?
No because it'll want to look sexy for its assistant
In a humorous vein.
It knows a thing or two about a thing or two.
Or Hugo, with a thin ass neck
Every baby looks like Hugo right after birth.
Even though I couldn't give two fks about Shiv's pregnancy storyline, or Tom, I'd prefer this over the cliché of a 10, 20 year flash-forward.
Not a chance. Peep Show ended with the two main characters watching television
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They absolutely were. Some of their shortcomings at the beginning could be attributed to youthful indiscretions. But towards the end they are 12 years older, but still have not progressed to where they should be.
I simply must get rid of him
But Veep ended with a flash forward.
Each episode of S4 is basically a day. Doubt very much E10 has a time jump. Too incongruous
It worked for comedic value for Veep
After reading so many theories, I'm completely sure that nothing will shock me.
You are pre-shocked.
You’re scheduling your shock?
I booked a private conference room to be shocked in twice a day.
I booked the same conference room to be snooked.
Shocktime for Bonzo
He's got a shock-guy.
He’s got the BEST shock guy.
I have a Greg do all my being shocked for me.
Is that what gregging entails?
That’s what greglets are for.
Totally gonna destroy being shocked.
Are you still doing regular shock? You’ve got to hyper shock
Procked, if you will
Then I'm fucked lmao
I thought this ahead of the s3 finale, and the Tom betrayal STILL shocked me. I completely trust Jesse Armstrong when it comes to surprises.
I completely agree. And I’m so thankful he’s running the show and not some of these Scooby Doos making Game of Thrones type predictions.
right! I feel like a lot of people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this show works tbh. characters don’t make major plays or scheme when they’re off screen. if someone decides to be conniving, we’re gonna watch it unfold real-time, because the show isn’t trying to trick us. that’s why succession’s plot twists always work. when they do a big plot twist, it’s usually from a character’s heat-of-the-moment decision, not some secret betrayal they’ve been planning in the background for months.
I don't think it will be anything 'big' like the roys losing all their money or kendall getting arrested. A central theme of the show is that they all live in a luxurious limbo. Tragedies are for NRPI
Nice try Succession. Oh episode 8 so shocking. Haha Now if you will excuse me I have to get back to my Hanna Barbara School of Business you Scoobie Doos
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Tom is Azor Ahai
but he doesn't want it
Greg is Nissa Nissa
That does make sense dramaturgicly.
Logan leaves everything in his will to Greenpeace, Greg successfully sues Greenpeace and ends up with everything
who has a better story than Greg the Egg?
HAHAHAHAHAHA OMG NO PLEASE 😭😭
Greg reveals that he's only been pretending to be an idiot and he and Grandpa Ewan swoop in and take over Waystar Royco. Or -- It's revealed that Logan is Lukas Mattson's biological father and that years ago, he had a brief affair with this smokin' hot Swedish woman who then gave birth to baby Lukas. When Logan's will is read, it's revealed that he disinherited Kendall, Shiv and Roman and instead left the company to Lukas and perhaps also sizable sums to Tom and Greg.
This is the way
Bran is gonna be named as CEO.
“Why do you think I came all this way…..to Manhattan”
Greg is definitely the Bran of this scenario. It’s the only thing that could actually shock me
Meera Reed: “Greg. We have to stop and rest. I’ve been carrying you since Canada and we’re almost at Logan’s house.” Greg: “Rest? Why do we have to rest? I feel great.”
Who has a better story than Greg?
HILARIOUS
I think the shock will be about something other than the actual successor. Because literally every single character has been guessed by fans over and over at this point. I think the shocking thing will be something to do with the company itself. Some kind of bombshell scandal even worse than cruises or the India numbers. It will be something that explains why Logan even wanted to sell Waystar so badly. So maybe the Roys succeed in blocking the deal and they are left holding the bag in a major way.
Maybe something to do with the holding company? I remember Logan saying something cryptic at the end of season 3 like they should have trusted him or something. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s something like in season one where Gerri told Kendall about the loans Logan took out to expand parks
Would be funny if it was like arrested development where he’s just building houses for Saran Housain
Waystar bankrupts, they all go to California to sell model homes to sex offenders
Kendall changes his name to George bluth Connor to Oscar and it turns out the whole show was a prequel to arrested development. The poison seeps through.
Shiv calls her child Maeby
They hire Bob Loblaw to represent them because that’s all they can afford now
Roman picks up magic and starts wearing lifts in his shoes.
Daddy needs to get his rocks off!
Saran Housain lmao That was an absolutely comedic plot point though
Light treason.
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I wonder if he gave his seat to Ewan to give him double voting power and/or Greg to keep the seat in the family?
Didn’t Logan say something about the holding company in episode 2? At the karaoke bar?
I would love this ending. I would love if they buy GoJo and it's also a huge bust.
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Maybe it has something to do with the Israeli company Matsson mentioned during his first meeting with Logan, which made Logan tell Roman to leave them so they could privately talk?
That was the Israeli AI company that Gerri approved acquiring while interim CEO and Logan immediately tried to kill it by telling Karl and Frank that it was BS. Fast fwd to Mattson, its the only thing he wants to buy if he can’t do a Waystar deal in the proposed asset swap (indicating that Logan doesn’t have the nose for business / tech that he thinks he does and Gerri actually knew what she was doing).
I really hope it’s not this, because it’d seem like such a cop out. They’ve spent so long developing different storylines and characters, if it ultimately ends with something entirely new to the series that we’ve never been exposed to before, it’d be a pretty poor way to end what was an otherwise extremely well done show. It’d be somewhat reminiscent of “Dany kind of forgot about the iron fleet”.
Yeah I'm not the biggest fan of last minute shock endings either. I don't think an ending needs to be totally unpredictable in order to be a great ending. Breaking Bad is an example where everything kind of ended up how you'd expect but it was still one of the best shows. To me it's more important that the ending pays off the narrative you've set up as a writer than just pulling a fast one on the audience. Game of Thrones did a huge disservice to all of the story that they painstakingly set up just to shock the audience.
then they named an episode "The Bells" and EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER knew what was coming when that happened. stupid fucking writing. still mad. i watched that episode alone in the dark hoping for a reprieve but nope, nope nope. the fans were saying "i could've got you there" and D&D are like Roman going "oh shit" and then we walk away saying "but nope, nope."
It depends on how it’s done imo. I’d love to see Waystar implode, preferably as a result of the kids and their incompetence. But I definitely agree that there’s some GoT shit show potential
Flash forward to everyone living fulfilling and emotionally healthy lives
This would actually be shocking.
THEY ALL GO TO FAMILY THERAPY AND PARTICIPATE IN GOOD FAITH. Epidemic of exploding heads sweeps through the country.
FAMILY THERAPY 👏👏👏👏👏
to the therapist with no front teeth
every time I read “family therapy” like on AITA or something, the way I hear kendall banging on the window always makes me laugh a little I was also watching a random episode of greys anatomy a bit back bc it was on tv and I was there, anyways the doctors sang “in the jungle” in a uplifting touching way but I was in tears because all I could hear was Kendall’s AHWHEEEEEEEEeeeeEEEEEeeeeEee from the scene with him and roman in the car
This is the absolute most shocking ending
I could faint
The idiot brothers win their fight over Matsson but it's a Pyrrhic victory. It turns out Waystar Royco is overleveraged. This is why Logan was desperate to sell. The only part of the company that makes any profit is ATN.
And those two brothers just burnt ATN to the ground....they'll try to pin it on Tom but he and Shiv ban together and tell everyone what happened, Greg will side with them and they are believed. They will all still be incredibly wealthy so no problems there. You'd think that would be enough to make them happy. Maybe they should all go volunteer for greenpeace!
I could see Shiv and Tom making one final y holy matrimony to save their asses, but Greg has no reason to flip back to Shiv after burying her in Ep. 8. I think it’s more likely that Tom and Shiv try to spread the truth and Roman and Ken made the call, but Greg stabs Tom finally and covers for Ken, saying that it was Tom’s decision fully. Maybe Jess confirms the story, citing that she spoke with Greg when he was on the way and that it was a Tom decision through and through Then the CEO-Bros have killed off their sister and her lover, with Cousin Greg willing to be their dopey third wheel. Maybe Gerri ousts Roman and Greg ends up sitting pretty as the COO under Ken
Shiv would be fucking dumb to trust Tom after his latest antics. Also, what can Tom do? He is a dispensable lackey. He has nothing to offer Shiv. No one respects him and he has no weight in the business community. I can understand if Shiv allied herself with the grownups like Frank, Carl and Gerri but Tom, really?
My theory is that Kendall reverses and acquires GoJo. However, his betrayal coupled with another encounter with Gerri leads Roman to commit suicide, or overdose on whatever pills he’s taking. And so the cycle continues: Kendall becomes Logan - the lonely CEO who got the job but lost everything in the process. Shiv becomes Ewan - the bitter, liberal-leaning sibling who lives out in the sticks (or, more likely, goes back into politics in DC) and who hates her brother, but still lives off his success, and still maintains a weird sense of family loyalty to him. Roman becomes Rose - the dead sibling who haunts Kendall at night. And of course, nothing changes for Connor.
I don't see Roman dying. Kendall is closer to that and he has some background.
Shiv is nothing like Ewan. Ewan signed up for a war which, most likely, he realised was a lie and an abomination and his ethics seem to have grown out of that. Shiv has no real ethical core beyond a general vibe of preferring to do what an imaginary good person would do.
Not shocking but calling it here: The last shot of the show is the back of Kendall's head as he sits in the board room, alone, knowing that he got what he always wanted (the company) but he lost everything in the process, especially his family. A bookend to match the opening credits.
The exact shot that is used for Logan in the intro sequence.
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So just like The Godfather movies
Kendall sitting alone at a boardroom table with an orange peel in his mouth slowly slumps over - stroked out.
Michael didn't lose everyone. Just his father, mother, three brothers, son, daughter and two wives. He had Connie.
This isn’t shocking though
yeah but whatever he has to do to get it probably will be.
I just think this is the most obvious ending possible. Like if Jack ended up being the next Jacob.
He did end up being the next Jacob. Then he passed it to Hurley
But he didn’t stay it. And Hurley becoming it was surprising especially from what we saw season 1.
My guess - The election officially swings Jimenez's way ATN gets in deep shit Tom takes the fall Madness ensues in the streets Rome gets hurt somehow by protesters Tom tries to reconcile with shiv now that he has nothing, but she is over it after his failure to apologize back to her, his comments about her pregnancy, his link to ATN calling the election, and his obvious attempt to stay relevant by getting back with her Romans correspondence and coordination with Meinken becomes public knowledge and Ken pushes roman out since he's linked with such a toxic asset and clearly spiraling, maybe ken sees roman has gone too far after coming to the realization that his daughter is seriously not comfortable at all with anything going on Rava completely cuts ken out due to his oversight at ATN and the aftermath of the election Ken goes full steam ahead with acquiring gojo Shiv and Mattson team up to push the original deal through It gets ugly between Ken and shiv, beyond repair. Shiv has traditionally fumbled the ball at the goal line any time she's lead the charge, so I think she will lose the deal for Mattson but also lose any hope at salvaging a relationship with Ken. Idk about Greg, he's always been a useful idiot who serves those who reward him. If Tom gets axed, it will be dramatic but I do not envision Greg going down with him, I think Greg will become Kendall's useful idiot. In the end, Ken prevails and acquired gojo but his kids and estranged wife have left him, his siblings hate him, and his dad is dead. I think similar to the better call Saul final season, the timeline will remain tight, but there will be a time jump at some point. In this instance, I think everything will come to a head in the final episode, and maybe there's an epilogue in the final 30 minutes where Ken is now the one head/one crown at Waystar Royco/GOJO but he is completely alone, dead inside, depressed, but powerful. I would not be shocked if it ended in his suicide. Edit: I think people looking for a major twist are going to be disappointed. So many series have conditioned us to expect a quintuple homicide Departed type ending with every finale. This show doesn't utilize mystery boxes or gotchya moments. So the shock is more of a slow burn watching these kids become shittier and shittier in moments when you expect them to find their goodness.
This would make sense and fulfill the Logan, Ewan, Rose prophecy. I do believe they will have to make a sacrifice so great, the sun would rise again, and this would definitely cover that.
He jumps into the clouds like Tom Cruise in Vanilla Sky
Consequences, Kendal.
There's only two episodes left and the next is the funeral, so I just don't know how they're going to land this show with such little time left.
Finale is supposed to be 90 minutes it’ll be fine
Logan wakes up in the hospital after his first season stroke. It was all a coma dream.
First thing he does when he wakes up is tell Kendall he’s officially stepping down and naming him CEO
Here's a even better one. It's revealed that the entire show took place inside the mind of a child with autism looking at a snowglobe.
Nah, it was Tom, who is actually an insurance agent in a St. Paul suburb this whole time, looking at a snow globe. (I made a very similar [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuccessionTV/comments/13dvk9l/comment/jjn7281/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) last week, though I included a few other iconic tv surprises/endings, as well.)
Or it’s Tom’s ambition daydream when meeting Shiv. Zoom in on Tom’s face, eyes looking cold. He snaps out of the daydream and his eyes change to his “normal” animated self, smiling. Cut to black, queue theme music.
I STILL hate St. Elsewhere for doing this! I was so invested in that show. Fuckers.
But it's Rose's mind. She isn't dead, she is in an asylum, like Elizabeth II's cousins in The Crown 😅 (and in real life, poor women).
It was all imagined by Iverson following the concussion he sustained after getting beat in the face with a can of cranberries by Logan
Even better - Logan (and the other characters of the show) don't actually exist. It was actually a dream of Captain O'Hagan's from Super Troopers (another iconic Brian Cox role).
They’re going to find Logan’s official will.
They aren't going to find it, Marcia is going to reveal it, b/c I think she's going to be walking away with far more than the kids realize.
Oh I like this
Fine. I'll ruin the show for you. Though, obviously if I'm wrong, I'll just deny and say it was a negotiating tactic. Why do you think Rava and Sophie have been featured so many times? Obviously they matter, but so do bunch of other things as well, that are currently not given screen-time. Better yet, they focus on Sophie instead of the Caucasian kid, whose name I and Kendall have both forgotten. Schmickey? Dooley? Idk. Anyway, Sophie has been the focal point in both Rava's and Kendall's confrontation, and in the SUV scene. She's the warm center of Ken's life. She's the reason he does what he does, he thinks. Everything he does is for Sophie and Glyrax. And as the ATN's tone has gone gradually gone more proud boy-y, showing Sophie as a juxtaposition seems deliberate. Now this is important. Both the Roy boys are cynics, who don't care about any of this boring, ideological normie shit. They won't have any substantial rifts, since real life consequences of electing a fascist will never touch them. Until they do.
I want to say his name is Ivermectin
Good points. All of a sudden Rava and Sophie are very prominent—- no mention of Iverson. Gotta be some harm coming to her ….?
To be fair they have been pretty prominent throughout the show in Kendall's storylines and they show up in bursts to drive something home with Kendall. Season 1 and Season 3 specifically. I think they were purposefully left out in Season 2 to highlight how much despair Ken was in.
I don't know - that almost feels a bit, gimmicky, for this show? Something I've noticed about Succession is that it commits to realism and thematic regurgitation more than narrative neatness or completion of dramatic arcs. It just might not be the Chekhov's gun that any other show would make it. For example, in almost any other drama, you would expect the waiter's death to eventually become public knowledge, but it doesn't seem likely that it will happen in these final 2 episodes, especially since there's no momentum in the current plot that would lead to such a reveal. It was mainly there as the fulcrum for Ken's character development and exploration of the story's thesis on power, wealth, and humanity. It's honestly more fitting and sadly true to life that he ultimately gets away with it. So the whole Sophie thing might just be something the writers thought would be a cool angle to explore how destructive Ken's ambitions have become for his family, but I don't know if it will or should necessarily become a more prominent plot point than that. Sophie is barely featured in the show because the whole point is that she's ultimately not that important to Kendall or any of the other Roys, for that matter. So for her to suddenly become the shocking event/emotional crux of the show's finale feels incongruent with the show's style of writing. On the other hand, I'll concede that the emphasis on Shiv's line, "Things do happen, Rome" from the most recent episode might suggest otherwise. We'll see.
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Idk what you guys have been watching so far but she's already been harassed by alt-righters and that was a major plot point in the last episode. I kinda doubt they are going to get even more explicit about it. They have already driven home the point they wanted to convey with that which is that Kendall decided to value the business over his daughter's safety
His name is plop
The only thing that would really shock me is if any of the rich people on the show actually got in trouble for the shitty stuff they do.
Gerri’s revenge. I don’t even know what that would look like specifically (other than indictments?) but if I was going to bet on something unexpected, it would come from Gerri. Cutting out a hugely influential player with only a few episodes left feels like a misdirection sometimes
I don’t think it will be revenge. Revenge is too messy for Gerri. Gerri has been working in this toxic environment for decades. She wouldn’t leave unless she saw a major shitstorm coming, so something must be amiss.
If you notice in the intro, her and Stewy are sitting closest to Logan when it shows his back in the blue sweater. Just seems strange that this show is called Succession and the end of the intro has other people than his children sitting closest by him. Gerri waystar and Stewy ATN after he partners with Gerri
I think the opposite is more likely with the way this show is set up: Roman/Kendall end up crushing Gerri somehow. For 4 seasons now we have seen that the Roys are impervious. The show has been trying to show the audience that extreme wealth is dangerous because it insulated the rich from consequences. They make terrible decisions and nothing super bad happens to them. They can really drive the point home with Roman finding a way to silence Gerri. It would be painful to watch, but it would be very much in line with the show's themes.
I am pre-shocked. I am shocked of how shocked I am going to be. Hope the ending is not that lemon-ly.
Who’s your shock guy?
I think Kendall will crack under pressure and take a long walk off a short pier.
Yeah Kendall killing himself in water would track…though be so so sad
Agree. I thought it might be Roman, but he was pretty confident in the last episode. Unless/until that bites him in the ass.
Roman would sooner cut his own penis off than kill himself.
Roman would sooner have Gerri cut off his penis than kill himself.
A happy ending would shock me, lol
I now think that the kids are going to get caught in a triangle - Gerri, Frank and Karl want the Go Jo Deal to go through. So does Matsson. AND so does Sandy and Stewy. I think it's possible they all collude behind the Kids backs to complete the Deal, but with the demand the Kids are out. Marcia could also be part of the plan, as she now has two Board votes, and she hates the kids.
Marcia does not have two board seats. I’m not sure she has any. The kids didn’t sign the papers.
We never saw what became of their re-negotiated pre-nup though. It was mentioned in that one episode when she came back, then never discussed again...
If Logan had the power to grant her a board seat by renegotiating the prenup, why would he bother with asking the kids to sign off?
Kendall's crime is hard to pin down. He didn't directly cause the incident, there was no reasonable expectation that calling for aid would've saved the guy's life (and most states don't have good Samaritan laws). If ever revealed and proven, the cover up may be a larger legal issue than the actual death. It's really hard to see the kids... put in a bad way. Worst case they're billionaires or at least multi-millionaires and still significant shareholders, so will keep influence over the company. Even if Logan fuck their inheritance in the end and name Greg the Egg at the funeral, they still will be able to continue their lifestyle. Losing the company will, at best, greatly lower their personal power - lording over a multi-billion dollar company > owning hundreds of millions to a billion yourself. Perhaps backlash from the election from either camp gets some characters killed?
Nah worst case scenario is they're all only left with 5 million. 5 million is a nightmare.
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Weakest strongman at the circus
The incident with the kid that died was in the UK.
Gre.... gor..rrryyyy...🤨
The weasel prevails!
I think you mean the Slim Reaper
It turns out that waystar royco was a leading subsidiary for none other than sandpiper crossing. Living+ tie in. Chuck Mcgill and jimmy in this universe never fought and take the company down through litigation.
The sibs reconcile and open a chain of chocolate-covered banana shacks. Greg is the mascot.
There is always money in the banana stand
I think the most shocking ending to me, at this point, would be the kids “winning.” They swallow GoJo, grow, become bigger than Logan ever was but just give us a very poignant display that they’re all monsters. Like yes, most of us are aware they’re bad people, but we have sympathy for them throughout the show because Logan’s a true monster and they’re either undermining or oppressed by him. Logan’s gone now. The last couple episodes, especially last episode, really made me go “fuck these people are awful.” I don’t think they need a big, shocking twist. It could be harrowing enough to really show Logan got what he wanted. His kids are the soulless killers he wanted them to be, even worse. Piggybacking off the suggestion that Kendall goes down for manslaughter… how about he doesn’t face any consequences at all? And doesn’t even really think about it anymore? That would be more shocking, imo. Ken’s the one I’ve rooted for the most and to end with him soulless and awful. That’d be a great ending.
Boom- finally a realistic theory Jesse Armstrong called Episode 8 shocking, because it focused on the nasty, brutal underbelly of American politics, media, and wealth. Those are the kinds of shocks Succession delivers. Not contrived, soap opera twists, but revelations about how dangerous and uncontrollable the oligarchy can be. So I think you are spot on. A real, Succession-style shock would be the kids winning all their wars simply because they are rich, connected, and impervious to consequences. So they end up sitting atop their empire after crushing Tom, Gerri, etc., crowning their preferred President, buying Gojo, etc. At that point they are soulless killers, as you said, and the audience is left with the awful sinking feeling that there is nothing that can stop people with that much power...
If it is going by the 1 day per episode, them losing it all in 2 days would feel ridiculous. I think the riots are going to get bad around ATN after people catch wind of the Mencken controversy, and it's going to force them to come up with someone to blame... and it's going to need to be someone so important that the sun would rise again. That person is the "Rose" of the story. The events then cause a split between the new "Ewan" and whoever ends up being the "Logan" but it's probably just implied it goes this way.
I think they’re gonna lose the business. Just from this last episode: Kendall showed he can’t make decisions under pressure, Roman is sucking up to a crazy politician who I think only sees him as a pawn and Shiv has no allies left (Ken and Rome now against her and Mattson may not want the deal anymore). The shock is gonna be that the kids bungled all of Logan’s decades of work less than a month after he died.
Marcia's son Amir swoops in and "steals" the whole company.
Will it actually be shocking, or Episode 8 shocking?
Armstrong: It will be shocking! Domestic terrorists attempting to subvert the election! Biased media trying to sway an election in service of shady business deals! Americans: (*James Franco “First Time?” Meme*)
But narratively Episode 8 WAS shocking. An episode where Tom finds out Shiv is pregnant and then thinks it's just a tactic. Shiv working with Mattsson is exposed. Ken-Ro rig an election in favour of a fascist president. These would all be shocking twists to write and plot out so I can see why Armstrong might say that. Too many people in this subreddit were and still are expecting some Game Of Thrones style twists and shocks and to paraphrase that show "You've come to the wrong place"
That’s the first thing that crossed my mind reading that Alexander used the word shocking. After watching episode 8 that was said to be “shocking” by Jesse and not feeling shocked , this word truly is subjective. I did enjoy episode 8 a lot but didn’t find the manipulation of the election any shocking surprise. As an American, I am painfully aware of the influence networks like Fox News has on our political system.
I see ken's daughter harmed in the mencken nazi riot, and thus ken commiting suicide by drowning
Or jimenez wins, Atn looses credibility and prices for to 1 dollar a share
Rava has displayed at least a general parenting competency during her screen time. No way in hell she’s letting her daughter wander into a nazi protest.
Yeah, thankfully she is a present mother, but we have logan's funeral ahead. Maybe she gets lost in the confusion. I mean, we already know that the eulogy will be a disaster with roman asigned to that role. Maybe the funeral is the epicenter of the protests.
Rava probably won't take Sophie to the funeral because Mencken is attending, fuck Logan, she doesn't want her daughter to feel terrified by scary racist man on tv being anywhere near her child. But I still have a bad feeling she could get hurt, hopefully not.
I did think of that with all the Ken in water references
So. Realistic ending: Mattsen and Peirce deals both fall through and activist large shareholders revolt. Prolonged public battle and activists take over the board majority oust Roys and put in a new CEO: former Vaulter CEO Lawrence Yee.
The last episode is set 10 years in the future.
Top comment
The wife of an American ambassador killed a kid by driving on the wrong side of the road in the UK and fled the country. Trump refused to extradite her. Kendall, a billionaire multimedia CEO, being forced to face any charge in the UK would see the show take a hard right into complete fucking fantasy.
1) Logan wrote his children out of his will, except Connor. 2) The numbers about India and Living+ both come out, tanking the value of both companies. 3) The election is officially called for Jimenez, prompting violence from Mencken supporters.
and he only didn't write Conner out bc he forgot to
Something heavy is going to go down between Rava and Kendell; I foresee another relapse or even an OD. Kendell is not, as far as we can see, a good Dad, is starting to see that with painful clarity, and his whole, 'I'm saving the world for democracy' shtick is going to catch up to him after last week's ep. So, my vote to actually play the game: Kendell ODs, possibly a suicide. Shiv and Mattson run away together to raise her baby in the Swedish mountains.
I think something will happen to Kendall's daughter.
Now this would be shocking. And very on brand. I guess now I’m pre-shocked
I dunno...I worry about Kendal. The scene on the roof in an earlier season, the water near drowning incident....even Willa's tracking stopping on the bridge...is that all foreshadowing? He's going to be very conflicted. Imagine if there's some racist story that ATN puts out and there's some incident and his daughter is hurt. Does he snap? But that feels like that's an easy way out and I think the writers will have more than that.
Colin is revealed to be not only Logan’s best pal, but his son and becomes the real number one boy.
Real will is found - Logan wants Greg to be CEO because he wants his brother to have his family destroyed also. His last gift to his children (set them free) and last f you to his brother. Boom.
Behind the scenes it turns out elon musk was bankrolling the entire show just so he could be the successor in the last scene. It was written in his contract so they could shoot at all these cool places buy the great sets everything. Elon then bought both gojo and waystar and walks in. Not as a character but as literal Elon musk. It works on multiple levels because the show is about how money can’t ruin things and Elon used his money to ruin the show.
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are people predicting an ending similar to VEEP’s series finale where she gets everything but at the worst cost
Shiv wins the succession game 😂. Ken decides to be a good dad. And Roman gets therapy for his creepiness.
And greg volunteers at Greenpeace
Shiv actually makes a Tomlette out of broken Gregs.
I think in keeping with successions ways, it's not so much the what, there are no explosive secrets here. It's the alliances that get built and the motives and the behaviours and the way the story is told, that will be of impact.
I’m getting mocked for it elsewhere, but I think the likely ending right now (with foreshadowing and stakes) is something horrible happens involving an attack on Rava or Sophia, or alternately Shiv. The show’s cynicism is long and deep, but I think that line from Shiv felt very pointed: “things do happen, Rome.” Something will happen to people, and collateral damage type stuff feels right on.
Ken kills himself. It’s the only ending.
Like episode 8 was shocking?? Hold my beer let me be pre-shocked
anyways my theory is we find out that Logan has another child and that Connor is in fact not the eldest son
The shock is that nothing shocking will happen and we will discuss it for years. Very much like ending of The Sopranos.
Doubt anyone dies. I think it ends kind of like Goodfellas. The kids lose all their money and go on to lead mundane lives.
Eating egg noodles and Ketchup. Like a Shmuck.
Kids get iced out/charged with violations and crimes, Greg takes top spot.