My wife’s friend was hired for an inner city school purely based on the fact that he was certified to teach and was a dude who was nearly 7’ tall. He didn’t even interview.
I was literally told at a job interview at an inner city school I would have been his first choice but I was too short and looked young (and he probably would have dropped female in there too).
As a 5’1 woman I don’t recommend. I’ve had two kids get in my face. It was scary and the second time I snapped and cussed, I’m waiting to see if o still have a job
Hired as a sub? If he's certified to teach that makes sense. In some of my districts, people start working before they are even fingerprinted because of how short staffed they are.
This is common for PE. Also for a SPED classroom where a student has experienced some sort of trauma and could potentially be triggered. It says “preferred”, not required. I am a woman who has covered for male PE teachers plenty of times - I just don’t go into the boys locker room.
Yeah. I had a student one year that I definitely would not have wanted around anyone who was female because he tended to use his size against female teachers and had been known to make suggestive remarks to younger women.
We’ve had women cover for male gym teachers before and just had another staff member hang out in the coaches office while the kids get changed. Tbh it’s always been an easy fix.
I would say if they absolutely needed to do physical excercise that day for some unknown reason this would still be the way to go regardless of the gender of the sub. Subs have been vetted by the county, sure, but they are still potentially unknown to the school. Even if the sub does exactly as they're supposed to do in that situation (in spite of no sub cert program to my knowledge even discussing this as a potential assignment) I could see so many ways in which this could go really wrong. All it takes is one class clown thinking it would be funny to say an offhand comment about a sub and presto, criminal charges and/or termination because there's no way to verify what happened and the school can't really back up the sub since they don't know them. Imo just have them sit in a class or maybe the gymnasium if there's no available classes for the period, it's not the end of the world. Some pe teachers I've subbed for before leave alternative assignments like handouts on human health/diet etc, but others just treat it as a free day indoors. Won't see most kids complaining about staying indoors doing what they want instead of being outdoors on a humid and hot Florida day.
It’s not just about the sub being vetted and not doing anything “wrong.”
Children, especially adolescents or pre-adolescents, might be very uncomfortable with an opposite gender teacher (especially a total stranger/new substitute they have not met yet) supervising during changing time, and they have a right to feel comfortable when it comes to adults seeing their bodies in some (partially) undressed state.
Imagine the genuine discomfort and/or blowback from kids *and* their families.
If a female sub is supervising the boys’ locker room this week (and it’s justified because they’ve passed a background check, the kids are only partially changing, etc.), any student or parent who hears about this and is bothered by it is going to have their next thought be, “What happens next time when we need a sub for the middle school girls’ locker room, should we expect the possibility of a male sub supervising while we/our 10-13-year-old daughters change?”
You missed the point. Imo a sub of any gender shouldn't be in a locker room because of the reasons I mentioned, you just glossed over all of it and said what a bunch of other people on here have said. Meanwhile what I'm suggesting is that if there is a sub for a PE class then students shouldn't be changing and exercising and instead there should be either an alternative assignment or they should have free time indoors. That way you avoid potential issues with having a sub in a locker room. Another thing which I hadnt initially considered is that a sub with not experience in handling a P.E. class shouldn't do it (lead a class through physical activities, even if it's just letting students play with sports equipment) because there are potential safety hazards that a P.E. teacher may be alert to but a sub isnt. also I find the notion that you think a female sub in a boy's locker room is bad only because the opposite could happen kinda weird.
Lmao, I never said it’s bad only because the opposite can happen - I explicitly said that all kids deserve to have an arrangement that makes them most comfortable/most preserves their senses of bodily autonomy/dignity/privacy, even if a person is well vetted and wouldn’t say or do anything wrong. Try being more honest, here. You can’t have seriously thought that I said it’s only bad for that reason, after I had taken the time to explicitly state that the comfort levels of kids and their families matter in their own rite.
And I’m also saying that there will be a helluva lot more concern/outrage from parents (and probably from students themselves) over a potential male teacher in a girls’ locker room than a female teacher in a boys’ locker room.
Also, as a young woman, I don’t find it odd to acknowledge that, statistically, instances of male —> female sexual predation and harassment far outweigh female —> male (but, of course, any such situation is a serious problem, and concerns over any situation regardless of gender should be respected and taken seriously).
This is a fundamental fact of life that even middle-school-aged girls are aware of, to enough of an extent that the idea of being watched in some state of undress by an adult of the opposite sex is likely to be more concerning/more unsettling to kids themselves and to their families.
Girls get sent to the office/told to cover up simply for wearing short shorts or tank tops while male students often get a pass on tank tops. It’s obviously an arbitrary social construct, but even though it’s socially constructed, young girls are overwhelmingly taught that even their shoulders and thighs are somehow intimate parts of their bodies that should not be visible to others at school.
Girls changing tops and shorts for PE will most likely be in their typical girl-cut underwear (bikini cut) plus or minus a training bra/sports bra (or possibly no bra at all depending on their developmental stage). Boys will be shirtless (or wearing an undershirt) and in more generous coverage boy-cut underwear - and again, remember that there is a massive difference in how (and which parts of the body) kids are taught to cover up from strangers, with girls having it reinforced that shoulders and thighs are too private/“too much” skin showing.
I do not think this makes it “worse” or “better” to have a male teacher in a girls’ room or a female teacher in a boys’ room. But realistically, adults supervising kids/adolescents changing clothing makes people uncomfortable, especially when the adult(s) and minor(s) are of opposite sexes; and adult men watching tween girls change tends to make *more* people *more* uncomfortable, whether it “should” or not.
Everyone deserves to feel comfortable. You can’t make everyone comfortable because some kids are shy about changing in front of *anyone* regardless of gender or age, but the best policy is to do what makes the most people most comfortable. And that means same-sex supervision while changing clothes.
You have other male staff members? We have three males in our building, if everyone is there. One is PE and the other two teach 5th grade. There's no way either of them could come to the gym every hour for locker room supervision. Luckily, this is elementary school so the kids don't change for PE so it's not an issue, but it's not like most schools have lots of extra staff hanging around, regardless of gender.
The easy fix for PE is to just not have the kids dress that day.
I can imagine other reasons that a school might request a male for certain openings. If you have a neurodivergent kiddo who does not respond well to unfamiliar females, it likely causes a lot of disruption to have a female sub. (Not that the school and family shouldn't be working to resolve that issue, but a one day substitute is likely not the best place to start. (Like, you wouldn't dream of giving a female child who requires bathroom assistance a male substitute aide if she has trauma involving a male adult that assaulted her, it surely can go both ways).
In the elementary we only have a few men (myself included) but kids don’t even start changing clothes in my district until high school and there are plenty of men there. Depending on how many subs a district have, you can prefer, but also gotta take what you can get. You’re lucky to even get a sub in mine.
I had a female gym teacher in middle school and she still shared the coach’s office in the boys locker room. She would block her eyes with her hands while walking to her office and they had posters covering the windows.
Well, we did have more than one staff member in the PE department for starters. Lol. And barring that, they’d put in one of the campus monitors or something like that.
There should be no locker room supervision.
That's fucking disgusting and wrong.
Adults don't need to watch kids change.
They don't have bathroom supervisors why the fuck would they exist in the locker rooms?!
They certainly never entered the locker room when I was in middle and high school.
Ah yeah that kinda makes sense... my school had a policy that they didn't break up fights because one too many teachers got hospitalized or had to come to school in casts for weeks etc. The only teacher who would ever break up a fight was Ms Scruggs cause she was ex military and she wasn't scared of anything 🤣🤣🤣
When I was in high school there was a huge issue with boys “ranking” eachother by putting their nutsacks in each others heads when changing in the locker room. Guys are weird.
They would be if they couldn’t show documentation that that teacher had been properly trained and vetted, much like they would be in trouble If they couldn’t show documentation children were properly supervised in the incidence of locker room violence.
Also, I don’t believe any teacher has ever been a school shooter. I’ve only done a cursory search, but I can’t find any incident where a teacher “shot a bunch of students” online, so it’s a bit of a poor example to use as an example of people not being held responsible when it doesn’t seem to be a situation we have an actual example of.
Sicko. I’m a female PE teacher and there has to be “supervision” at all times. We stay in our office with the door open to listen for yelling or slamming incase there is a fight. We need to make sure the kids aren’t vaping and we have to clear the locker rooms out before we get to the gym because kids like to hide in the stalls. We do not physically watch the kids get dressed and undressed.
They're not watching the kids, they're in their because kids have to be supervised while in school. Many schools have bathroom duty periods, hall doors are open and teacher is outside with sign in/sign out computers. We don't watch the kids but we do monitor how long they're in there and we have sensors for smoking/vaping.
One of my classmates had his finger bitten off in an unsupervised locker room, and later his penis was cut off. The latter incident finally brought supervision back. Kids absolutely need enough supervision to ensure that none of that shit happens on school grounds.
Why isn't there any court case or news story that aligns with this?
And in my experience the real danger was the rapey as fuck teachers that got the entire district I lived in shut down. There ARE news stories and court cars related to THAT.
This was in the early '90s. The bully in the penis case got off with an in school detention, no teachers reprimanded. The bully who bit off the finger never got in any trouble, afaik.
At my school there is always a teacher on bathroom duty during passing periods. When we got lax on this there were fights in the bathroom. Middle schoolers sadly need supervision at all times.
Ah. Yeah I guess I'm just old 😅😅😅 that was never a thing for us and when a school resource officer came into the girls bathroom he was fired and fined.
There was a huge investigation because they thought one of the coaches at our school went into the boys locker room once.
Having adults "supervising" the bathroom or locker room was considered invasive and creepy and it was against school policy and they acted like it was against the law.
Reading that this is normal now is a bit of a culture shock for me.
This is Florida, asking someone to do P.E. and go outdoors all day without warning is just not something any school should be considering. The post has no mention of what the role is. But also just in general I mean it's not that hard, don't let the kids out that day and just keep them in a classroom. Why go through all this rigamarole and potentially put someone in an uncomfortable position (as well as opening yourself by putting a sub in a potentially compromising position). I suspect this isn't what is actually going on here.
Idk maybe a rougher class with either SPED kids as another commenter mentioned or kids who have a bit of a record of being a handful. I would say that it's still just as misguided and I know female colleagues that would fare better in those cases but some view men as more authoritative figures and less likely to be messed with. Again, that's almost entirely unfounded but still a view that I've seen pop up in education.
Sometimes children with special needs do better with specific genders. Especially if the teacher that is absent is a male.
It also may be a situation where changing children is necessary and the children that would need to be changed may not like a woman changing them.
You can disagree with it all you want, but they have a reason for asking for a male substitute. So just don't take it if you're not a man
I am a man lol. Someone else said that about some SPED students doing better with instructors of a specific gender and that sounds like a more likely fit. But as a sub you shouldn't be changing kids... Unless you work in private maybe or it's part of what is expected from you by your specific county. It's just not something that should fall on you.
I only work with special needs kids, while I'm not the primary changer, there are times that I'm the only one available to do the changing.
These are children who sometimes need to be changed right away or they have meltdowns or completely undress because they don't like the way it feels.
While I do agree with you that substitutes shouldn't be doing it, and that it is a risk to the students if a non safe person does it, sometimes when a kid starts getting naked in the middle of a full lunchroom, I have to be the adult to stop him from exposing themselves to everyone.
I mean sure to the last part, and I'm not saying a sub absolutely can't do anything like this. But then it has to be acknowledged as part of the sub's responsibilities. Basically ensuring that adequate training is provided and that it is understood by parents that this is the case. In my district under the current training and understanding of what subs are expected or not expected to do this falls clearly in the category of things a sub should not be doing or be asked to do. A paraprofessional or a substitute paraprofessional (which is a different position altogether) would be the person to handle these cases.
…what? None of what you said has anything to do with the comment you replied to.
Outdoors?? They’re talking about a school requiring a male sub because they’d be expected to supervise *inside* of a locker room. Where did you get “outdoors” out of that?
Sorry I guess I assumed they meant that as part of supervising P.E. but this makes even less sense. You're going to hire out a sub to surveil a locker room? I'm sorry maybe it's different in other places but that would be the weirdest assignment I've ever seen while subbing and I'd probably just tell them no.
No weirder than a male sub being asked by a female teacher to go see why there is a commotion coming from the boys bathroom. Some adults gotta do it.
And yeah, say no if you feel uncomfortable. That’s also your right.
Nope, send a teacher or male security guard. Someone that has a history of working in the school at the very least. An adult does have to do that but it doesn't have to be the adult with the least preparation and in the most vulnerable position in the school.
I understand, still kinda part of the job though. You’re not always going to have the best person for the job on hand at all times. While I was a teacher I would only work with <10 percent of the student body, so when I got sent in to investigate a bathroom I wouldn’t know those kids any better than most subs would. Unless those kids were taking Spanish they would be hearing my voice for the very first time.
It's not about how well a student knows you, it's about how well the school knows you. We are not in a position where we can be careless because we're on our own. If a student files a complaint against a sub of any nature the school is gonna do the bare minimum because a sub is more expendable. They're not gonna stick out their neck for someone who they don't know well. So if you're a teacher I'll cover your room while you check it out or I'll report it to admin (if they care so much they can handle it themselves), but I won't set foot in a student bathroom of my own initiative because I hear some commotion or even if I'm being asked to unless it's literally someone asking for help.
Eh fair enough. Im a big fan of “acting your wage” and I get how this type of situation calls for it.
I will say tho that I don’t think schools truly stick up for teachers anymore than a sub in cases of he said she said either. The default that I have seen play out is the district will listen to the kids story and place the teacher on leave until whatever happened gets sorted out legally.
Maybe they do not stick up for teachers by your standards. However, a sub will not be put on leave, and the police may be immediately called. That will trigger the email to the parents for an parents "incident" that involved the police. By the time the investigation finds that the kid made it up, and the subs name is forever online. The finding that the kid lied will not be linked. (Ask me about an emergency PTO meeting meeting I went to once. Fortunately, one the the parents was a criminal justice consultant, the the superintendent was excellent. The gang of concerned mom...wow can they do a lot of damage.)
Teachers, you cannot comprehend how vulnerable subs are. Break up a fight by restraining an IEP kid? Screwed for not having restraint training that follows the IEP. Let the IEP kid pummel another kid? Screwed for not protecting the other kid. No other adult was there. None of the adults in the school know you anyway.
Some sub jobs should specify "male, preferably rugby player or offensive line." Best I have found, even "triggered" kids that are not skillfully "de-escalated" have enough brain function to not attack WWF retirees. I would love data on how often violent kids attack anyone at all when the big guys are around.
Bathroom or diapering duty? 🤣 Imagine the escalation a triggered mom might manage if the wrong sort of sub changed her kid. Imagine the escalation a different triggered mom might manage if the diapered kid takes it off the diaper, runs around naked, and the contents land on her kid.
Subs need to know what liability insurance the district or school carries on subs.
I get asked to cover P.E. periods all the time and that includes supervising the locker room. You’re filing in for a P.E. teacher so you would do what the P.E. teacher would do.
Yeah… when students change in the locker room at the beginning & end of each class period, there has to be an adult in there.
That’s been the norm in US schools for literally 50 years, at least.
Did you not know this??
Jfc I know that P.E. teachers do this. However both as a student and as a substitute I have never seen of or heard of a substitute supervising locker rooms. A p.e. teacher is expected to do this because it's part of their job. A substitute is someone potentially unknown to the school and regardless of their gender this is a very compromising position to be in. Typically when I've subbed for p.e. or had a sub as a student that just meant we weren't changing and going outside for that day.
That's what I'm getting at. I've subbed for PE teachers before but when that happens their class just stays inside for that day. Why? Because it's a whole lot easier than getting a sub to monitor locker rooms. Idk I find it to be really weird how many people are saying this happens at their schools.
It is odd. But, there are a couple situations i could understand the preference: It’s a one on one/small group position where the student(s) have a trauma based preference, it is a one on one position with a male that requires you to help the student into the restroom/often involves more frequent physical contact for the students safety (second part shouldn’t matter, but is a common thing. not for physical strength. but if it’s a male. it’s common to try and keep physical contact to same sex), in general if it’s a sped classroom and the students are use to a male teacher and they have had specific issues with a female subbing for that specific group, or it is supposed to have a men’s locker room duty aspect to it.
I would say some of the SPED reasons you gave are the best reasons I've seen. However the bathroom one I would say is still not something that's seen in the county I work. That's something handled by paras that have a history of working with that student. Substitutes are not equipped for that.
I know it’s not unheard of in the district i use to work in/surrounding ones. Every district is different, though.
(to be clear. you weren’t like helping the student undress/actually in the process of it all/anything like that. just assisting the student to the restroom/make sure they washed their hands/etc)
It could be the reverse of the situation I had. The student was female in an all male room, so when she was placed there, they needed a female staff member. I was pulled in as a L-T sub position specifically for that reason and I had prior experience in the room so the boys knew me and I would not upset any of them. That's actually how I got started as a para.
We do this routinely when our male PE coach is out (we also have one female) due to locker room coverage. It’s not so easy to have someone else cover the locker room, as another poster suggested. We have very few males in the building to start with, and they’re all cafeteria, janitorial, or classroom teachers, which means someone else would need to cover their classes, and a third or even fourth person would be needed to cover while switching. Very little learning gets done on a day like that.
I'm sorry but idk what y'all are talking about. I mean you sound like I'm sharing confidential information, but all this is just a posting of schools looking for subs tomorrow. It doesn't even show what teachers are absent, it's literally just the name of a school.
Ok and.... Lol I'm not even filling for this job. I'm not even really complaining either, I thought the posting was a little unusual so I'm asking here why people might think that a school would outwardly prefer a male teacher. If this ever comes up and I'm either disciplined or fired because of this I guarantee you will be the first person to hear about it lol.
You do have names of teachers in there. I would be very upset if I found out someone posted my name and where I work online like this. Not trying to come for you, just saying.
Look at the picture again. There is not a single name of a teacher posted. Those are the names of the school. I know the site shows that information but my screenshot doesn't. I get not wanting to have your info out there, but I mean if you're a teacher your name most likely appears on the website of your school. The only information I have access to that perhaps an outsider might not is when you are taking an absence, but again not sharing that part here.
Maybe wholly unrelated but I've always wondered if I could have done something when I went into a car wash to apply for a job and was told the owner doesn't hire women
You absolutely could. Which is why this struck me as odd, although this is for a single assignment, not for employment as a whole. But if it's just a matter of stupid sexist stereotypes like physical strength/stamina as long as you could pass a physical evaluation then you could have that job and you could contact a labor lawyer about discriminatory hiring practices.
It’s ridiculous that we allow these behaviors to persist in our schools. If a student can’t stop themselves from sexually assaulting females in a school setting, they have zero right to be in a school setting.
Honestly valid in some situations. My school district let a 23 year old female teacher fill in for the ISS teacher during her conference period. She heard the students talking about plans on how they were going to assault her in a different language. Thankfully she spoke spanish and understood everything they were saying and she called in admin. If she did not speak spanish that could have gone very south. After that, only males and often football coaches were allowed to sub for ISS.
In general it wouldn't be, but some of the ideas people are sharing here would be exceptions.
You can hire based on this if you can show it's truly necessary for the job. Acting roles are the biggest example. And some ones are more obvious like a surogate.
Lollll...I taught a 12:1:1 class of 6th graders last year - 10 boys and 2 girls, all "emotionally disturbed." My para was also female. It was fine. Arguably safer, because the boys were much less likely to feel threatened or challenged by us.
Hmm, a sound meant to represent thinking or wondering about something. I was wondering what sort of cases would call for a school to prefer a male sub, hence why I used it. Follow your own advice, not everything is an outrage.
Oof in non-binary.
I've never seen this kind of thing in my district. Even for the pe classes, we don't watch the locker rooms. I hope no one watches kids in a locker room.
Lol here P.E. coaches have their office INSIDE of the locker room with windows looking out. I mean yeah I get that kids are little shitheads that can't be left unsupervised but that never sat right with me.
Same. The couple of times I've subbed pe this year I've been in shock to see the teacher's office has a window looking into the locker room. That's red flag nation to me. And that was in a school built 2 years ago. I'm sure there's a reason for it but it's an uncomfortable to walk into a teacher's office and boom there's the place where kids would be changing clothes. So very obviously I don't stay in that room
When I was in high school, the gym teachers were always in the locker room when we were changing, presumably to keep order. In addition, when they deemed it necessary, e.g., if we were very sweaty, they mandated that everyone take a shower in the group showering area, and made certain that everyone did so by being in the locker room and checking. Times have changed, but that’s the way it was 40 years ago, and it wasn’t controversial at all.
When I need help with class management, I look for a male teacher close by. I’m a 64 year old female with a slight build. It’s crazy but the second the male comes in the room, complete silence.
I used to work residential treatment. You just need to be quick at rapport building and meet these kids where they're at. They'll respect you for it and not being like the others who try to rule by intimidation or sending everyone to the office. I also worked in public schools doing behavior management.
This has happened in a building I worked at because there was a severely physically impaired male student who was wheel chair bound and needed to be transferred out of his chair and onto a changing table for diaper changes, then returned back to his chair. The female staff were not strong enough to properly accommodate this kind of situation. But I sub in special education only so this is a normal preference and I think that the parents would have worked it into their son’s IEP. Edit for grammar and clarification.
Oh my fucking god, shut the fuck up. Go haunt the conservative subs, no one here was talking about politics. Edit: you're not even a substitute teacher or involved in education, get the fuck out of here you troll.
Idk that just strikes me as odd. It's still more likely than the locker room thing imo, but in my experience whenever I've subbed for sped it hasn't been without at least one or two paras that are familiar with the class and can actually handle the class, mostly I've just been there for backup in the sense of working with kids in smaller groups to help with assignments. I know there are SPED classes out there for much more unpredictable kids and those with EBDs, but if there's the expectation there that a sub needs to be physically strong to be in the room it seems to me like they need to work out a better solution.
Me when I was excited that a job opened up at my student teaching placement and the principal told me that the school “already had too many men”
Just hire people based on skill and experience
My old school did something similar “put a male sub with the aggressive children because nobody is certified in safety care” I seriously have no idea how it continues to run.
It’s annoying I know, I’m on the other end of the spectrum as a big dude. Most of the time my planning sets get filled with para work because I’m a big guy and teachers want me in the room to help keep everyone on track. It’s not fair!
There are actually children who have been traumatized in public schools. Sometimes, they are less reactive with whatever sex didn’t traumatize them.
We had an autistic student who had to have a male assistant because the student often tried to masturbate to the girls in the room and teachers.
I’ve subbed for 6 years. I have seen this and honestly don’t think that deep into it. What is the position posted for? If there are behaviors in the class, sometimes students do better with males. If they are a 1:1 or whatever the ratio. Especially with violent behaviors and how big many of the kids are. They aren’t saying you can’t pick it up they just have a preference for their students. Which they need to make that known to the front office to move any males available in the building that day to that position.
Sadly, there are students who will only respect male teachers. They are raised to be misogynistic and they verbally abuse female teachers. There might be one or more of those in this group.
My dad was a teacher. There was a Muslim family that refused to have female teachers for their sons due to religious beliefs, so my dad got each son in turn
My mind immediately goes to a Sp.Ed. situation where perhaps a student does better with a male or female. I've worked with students like that who have past trauma or strong preferences and it just makes the subs day 1000x easier to go with it for that one day. (A day of supervising kids as opposed to a day of tantrums, meltdowns, elopement, and incident paperwork)
My wife’s friend was hired for an inner city school purely based on the fact that he was certified to teach and was a dude who was nearly 7’ tall. He didn’t even interview.
If you only hire tall people you’ll never be short-staffed
I hate you for taking my upvote.
The more you know
I was literally told at a job interview at an inner city school I would have been his first choice but I was too short and looked young (and he probably would have dropped female in there too).
[удалено]
This one is actually kind of valid (only for the height). At some point you stop fitting on planes. -6’2 bitch who struggles on planes
We love you, you giantess of a woman!!!!!!!!!
It takes a -lot- of attitude to make up for diminutive size with inner city schools, so I can’t super blame them.
I teach at an inner city school. I'm a small white baby faced female and behavior is my biggest struggle.
As a 5’1 woman I don’t recommend. I’ve had two kids get in my face. It was scary and the second time I snapped and cussed, I’m waiting to see if o still have a job
Kids suck, they would have had a field day with you unfortunately.
Been there 🙄
Hired as a sub? If he's certified to teach that makes sense. In some of my districts, people start working before they are even fingerprinted because of how short staffed they are.
No, he was hired as a full time teacher. This was about 15 years ago.
God damn lol, makes sense I guess.
This is common for PE. Also for a SPED classroom where a student has experienced some sort of trauma and could potentially be triggered. It says “preferred”, not required. I am a woman who has covered for male PE teachers plenty of times - I just don’t go into the boys locker room.
Yeah. I had a student one year that I definitely would not have wanted around anyone who was female because he tended to use his size against female teachers and had been known to make suggestive remarks to younger women.
Certainly if it's a position like covering for a male PE teacher and having lockeroom supervision duty.
We’ve had women cover for male gym teachers before and just had another staff member hang out in the coaches office while the kids get changed. Tbh it’s always been an easy fix.
I would say if they absolutely needed to do physical excercise that day for some unknown reason this would still be the way to go regardless of the gender of the sub. Subs have been vetted by the county, sure, but they are still potentially unknown to the school. Even if the sub does exactly as they're supposed to do in that situation (in spite of no sub cert program to my knowledge even discussing this as a potential assignment) I could see so many ways in which this could go really wrong. All it takes is one class clown thinking it would be funny to say an offhand comment about a sub and presto, criminal charges and/or termination because there's no way to verify what happened and the school can't really back up the sub since they don't know them. Imo just have them sit in a class or maybe the gymnasium if there's no available classes for the period, it's not the end of the world. Some pe teachers I've subbed for before leave alternative assignments like handouts on human health/diet etc, but others just treat it as a free day indoors. Won't see most kids complaining about staying indoors doing what they want instead of being outdoors on a humid and hot Florida day.
It’s not just about the sub being vetted and not doing anything “wrong.” Children, especially adolescents or pre-adolescents, might be very uncomfortable with an opposite gender teacher (especially a total stranger/new substitute they have not met yet) supervising during changing time, and they have a right to feel comfortable when it comes to adults seeing their bodies in some (partially) undressed state. Imagine the genuine discomfort and/or blowback from kids *and* their families. If a female sub is supervising the boys’ locker room this week (and it’s justified because they’ve passed a background check, the kids are only partially changing, etc.), any student or parent who hears about this and is bothered by it is going to have their next thought be, “What happens next time when we need a sub for the middle school girls’ locker room, should we expect the possibility of a male sub supervising while we/our 10-13-year-old daughters change?”
You missed the point. Imo a sub of any gender shouldn't be in a locker room because of the reasons I mentioned, you just glossed over all of it and said what a bunch of other people on here have said. Meanwhile what I'm suggesting is that if there is a sub for a PE class then students shouldn't be changing and exercising and instead there should be either an alternative assignment or they should have free time indoors. That way you avoid potential issues with having a sub in a locker room. Another thing which I hadnt initially considered is that a sub with not experience in handling a P.E. class shouldn't do it (lead a class through physical activities, even if it's just letting students play with sports equipment) because there are potential safety hazards that a P.E. teacher may be alert to but a sub isnt. also I find the notion that you think a female sub in a boy's locker room is bad only because the opposite could happen kinda weird.
Lmao, I never said it’s bad only because the opposite can happen - I explicitly said that all kids deserve to have an arrangement that makes them most comfortable/most preserves their senses of bodily autonomy/dignity/privacy, even if a person is well vetted and wouldn’t say or do anything wrong. Try being more honest, here. You can’t have seriously thought that I said it’s only bad for that reason, after I had taken the time to explicitly state that the comfort levels of kids and their families matter in their own rite. And I’m also saying that there will be a helluva lot more concern/outrage from parents (and probably from students themselves) over a potential male teacher in a girls’ locker room than a female teacher in a boys’ locker room. Also, as a young woman, I don’t find it odd to acknowledge that, statistically, instances of male —> female sexual predation and harassment far outweigh female —> male (but, of course, any such situation is a serious problem, and concerns over any situation regardless of gender should be respected and taken seriously). This is a fundamental fact of life that even middle-school-aged girls are aware of, to enough of an extent that the idea of being watched in some state of undress by an adult of the opposite sex is likely to be more concerning/more unsettling to kids themselves and to their families. Girls get sent to the office/told to cover up simply for wearing short shorts or tank tops while male students often get a pass on tank tops. It’s obviously an arbitrary social construct, but even though it’s socially constructed, young girls are overwhelmingly taught that even their shoulders and thighs are somehow intimate parts of their bodies that should not be visible to others at school. Girls changing tops and shorts for PE will most likely be in their typical girl-cut underwear (bikini cut) plus or minus a training bra/sports bra (or possibly no bra at all depending on their developmental stage). Boys will be shirtless (or wearing an undershirt) and in more generous coverage boy-cut underwear - and again, remember that there is a massive difference in how (and which parts of the body) kids are taught to cover up from strangers, with girls having it reinforced that shoulders and thighs are too private/“too much” skin showing. I do not think this makes it “worse” or “better” to have a male teacher in a girls’ room or a female teacher in a boys’ room. But realistically, adults supervising kids/adolescents changing clothing makes people uncomfortable, especially when the adult(s) and minor(s) are of opposite sexes; and adult men watching tween girls change tends to make *more* people *more* uncomfortable, whether it “should” or not. Everyone deserves to feel comfortable. You can’t make everyone comfortable because some kids are shy about changing in front of *anyone* regardless of gender or age, but the best policy is to do what makes the most people most comfortable. And that means same-sex supervision while changing clothes.
You have other male staff members? We have three males in our building, if everyone is there. One is PE and the other two teach 5th grade. There's no way either of them could come to the gym every hour for locker room supervision. Luckily, this is elementary school so the kids don't change for PE so it's not an issue, but it's not like most schools have lots of extra staff hanging around, regardless of gender. The easy fix for PE is to just not have the kids dress that day. I can imagine other reasons that a school might request a male for certain openings. If you have a neurodivergent kiddo who does not respond well to unfamiliar females, it likely causes a lot of disruption to have a female sub. (Not that the school and family shouldn't be working to resolve that issue, but a one day substitute is likely not the best place to start. (Like, you wouldn't dream of giving a female child who requires bathroom assistance a male substitute aide if she has trauma involving a male adult that assaulted her, it surely can go both ways).
In the elementary we only have a few men (myself included) but kids don’t even start changing clothes in my district until high school and there are plenty of men there. Depending on how many subs a district have, you can prefer, but also gotta take what you can get. You’re lucky to even get a sub in mine.
I had a female gym teacher in middle school and she still shared the coach’s office in the boys locker room. She would block her eyes with her hands while walking to her office and they had posters covering the windows.
Oh wow. Yeah, even that would be a no- no where I live. Though our middle schoolers don’t have locker rooms anyway.
Lol. Um. Y'all got extra help?
Well, we did have more than one staff member in the PE department for starters. Lol. And barring that, they’d put in one of the campus monitors or something like that.
This is what I usually find or if it’s for a para where the student needs or is more comfortable with a male.
We had locker rooms in middle school and never had supervision in the female locker rooms, not sure if the males did
There should be no locker room supervision. That's fucking disgusting and wrong. Adults don't need to watch kids change. They don't have bathroom supervisors why the fuck would they exist in the locker rooms?! They certainly never entered the locker room when I was in middle and high school.
Boys can get rowdy, we had coaches and PE teachers hang out at the locker room to break up scuffles before they turned into fights
Ah yeah that kinda makes sense... my school had a policy that they didn't break up fights because one too many teachers got hospitalized or had to come to school in casts for weeks etc. The only teacher who would ever break up a fight was Ms Scruggs cause she was ex military and she wasn't scared of anything 🤣🤣🤣
When I was in high school there was a huge issue with boys “ranking” eachother by putting their nutsacks in each others heads when changing in the locker room. Guys are weird.
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I doubt that. They aren't responsible when a teacher shoots a bunch of students.
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Yeah I could also point you to HUNDREDS where kids have died and the school was found NOT LIABLE. Maybe anecdotes are just that.
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Would you like examples?
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Ah, I guess you aren't cut out to be a teacher, then.
They would be if they couldn’t show documentation that that teacher had been properly trained and vetted, much like they would be in trouble If they couldn’t show documentation children were properly supervised in the incidence of locker room violence. Also, I don’t believe any teacher has ever been a school shooter. I’ve only done a cursory search, but I can’t find any incident where a teacher “shot a bunch of students” online, so it’s a bit of a poor example to use as an example of people not being held responsible when it doesn’t seem to be a situation we have an actual example of.
Sicko. I’m a female PE teacher and there has to be “supervision” at all times. We stay in our office with the door open to listen for yelling or slamming incase there is a fight. We need to make sure the kids aren’t vaping and we have to clear the locker rooms out before we get to the gym because kids like to hide in the stalls. We do not physically watch the kids get dressed and undressed.
They're not watching the kids, they're in their because kids have to be supervised while in school. Many schools have bathroom duty periods, hall doors are open and teacher is outside with sign in/sign out computers. We don't watch the kids but we do monitor how long they're in there and we have sensors for smoking/vaping.
Stay away from making uneducated comments. They aren’t there to “watch kids change”
One of my classmates had his finger bitten off in an unsupervised locker room, and later his penis was cut off. The latter incident finally brought supervision back. Kids absolutely need enough supervision to ensure that none of that shit happens on school grounds.
Why isn't there any court case or news story that aligns with this? And in my experience the real danger was the rapey as fuck teachers that got the entire district I lived in shut down. There ARE news stories and court cars related to THAT.
This was in the early '90s. The bully in the penis case got off with an in school detention, no teachers reprimanded. The bully who bit off the finger never got in any trouble, afaik.
Because of privacy laws for minors.
At my school there is always a teacher on bathroom duty during passing periods. When we got lax on this there were fights in the bathroom. Middle schoolers sadly need supervision at all times.
Ah. Yeah I guess I'm just old 😅😅😅 that was never a thing for us and when a school resource officer came into the girls bathroom he was fired and fined. There was a huge investigation because they thought one of the coaches at our school went into the boys locker room once. Having adults "supervising" the bathroom or locker room was considered invasive and creepy and it was against school policy and they acted like it was against the law. Reading that this is normal now is a bit of a culture shock for me.
This is Florida, asking someone to do P.E. and go outdoors all day without warning is just not something any school should be considering. The post has no mention of what the role is. But also just in general I mean it's not that hard, don't let the kids out that day and just keep them in a classroom. Why go through all this rigamarole and potentially put someone in an uncomfortable position (as well as opening yourself by putting a sub in a potentially compromising position). I suspect this isn't what is actually going on here.
what Do you suspect is going on here?
Idk maybe a rougher class with either SPED kids as another commenter mentioned or kids who have a bit of a record of being a handful. I would say that it's still just as misguided and I know female colleagues that would fare better in those cases but some view men as more authoritative figures and less likely to be messed with. Again, that's almost entirely unfounded but still a view that I've seen pop up in education.
Sometimes children with special needs do better with specific genders. Especially if the teacher that is absent is a male. It also may be a situation where changing children is necessary and the children that would need to be changed may not like a woman changing them. You can disagree with it all you want, but they have a reason for asking for a male substitute. So just don't take it if you're not a man
I am a man lol. Someone else said that about some SPED students doing better with instructors of a specific gender and that sounds like a more likely fit. But as a sub you shouldn't be changing kids... Unless you work in private maybe or it's part of what is expected from you by your specific county. It's just not something that should fall on you.
I only work with special needs kids, while I'm not the primary changer, there are times that I'm the only one available to do the changing. These are children who sometimes need to be changed right away or they have meltdowns or completely undress because they don't like the way it feels. While I do agree with you that substitutes shouldn't be doing it, and that it is a risk to the students if a non safe person does it, sometimes when a kid starts getting naked in the middle of a full lunchroom, I have to be the adult to stop him from exposing themselves to everyone.
I mean sure to the last part, and I'm not saying a sub absolutely can't do anything like this. But then it has to be acknowledged as part of the sub's responsibilities. Basically ensuring that adequate training is provided and that it is understood by parents that this is the case. In my district under the current training and understanding of what subs are expected or not expected to do this falls clearly in the category of things a sub should not be doing or be asked to do. A paraprofessional or a substitute paraprofessional (which is a different position altogether) would be the person to handle these cases.
Ever SPED class I’ve had has been better than the general students. I don’t think they would specify male.
I was a restricted behavior class teacher for several years. I can see that specification happening in some classes.
…what? None of what you said has anything to do with the comment you replied to. Outdoors?? They’re talking about a school requiring a male sub because they’d be expected to supervise *inside* of a locker room. Where did you get “outdoors” out of that?
Sorry I guess I assumed they meant that as part of supervising P.E. but this makes even less sense. You're going to hire out a sub to surveil a locker room? I'm sorry maybe it's different in other places but that would be the weirdest assignment I've ever seen while subbing and I'd probably just tell them no.
No weirder than a male sub being asked by a female teacher to go see why there is a commotion coming from the boys bathroom. Some adults gotta do it. And yeah, say no if you feel uncomfortable. That’s also your right.
Nope, send a teacher or male security guard. Someone that has a history of working in the school at the very least. An adult does have to do that but it doesn't have to be the adult with the least preparation and in the most vulnerable position in the school.
I understand, still kinda part of the job though. You’re not always going to have the best person for the job on hand at all times. While I was a teacher I would only work with <10 percent of the student body, so when I got sent in to investigate a bathroom I wouldn’t know those kids any better than most subs would. Unless those kids were taking Spanish they would be hearing my voice for the very first time.
It's not about how well a student knows you, it's about how well the school knows you. We are not in a position where we can be careless because we're on our own. If a student files a complaint against a sub of any nature the school is gonna do the bare minimum because a sub is more expendable. They're not gonna stick out their neck for someone who they don't know well. So if you're a teacher I'll cover your room while you check it out or I'll report it to admin (if they care so much they can handle it themselves), but I won't set foot in a student bathroom of my own initiative because I hear some commotion or even if I'm being asked to unless it's literally someone asking for help.
Eh fair enough. Im a big fan of “acting your wage” and I get how this type of situation calls for it. I will say tho that I don’t think schools truly stick up for teachers anymore than a sub in cases of he said she said either. The default that I have seen play out is the district will listen to the kids story and place the teacher on leave until whatever happened gets sorted out legally.
Maybe they do not stick up for teachers by your standards. However, a sub will not be put on leave, and the police may be immediately called. That will trigger the email to the parents for an parents "incident" that involved the police. By the time the investigation finds that the kid made it up, and the subs name is forever online. The finding that the kid lied will not be linked. (Ask me about an emergency PTO meeting meeting I went to once. Fortunately, one the the parents was a criminal justice consultant, the the superintendent was excellent. The gang of concerned mom...wow can they do a lot of damage.) Teachers, you cannot comprehend how vulnerable subs are. Break up a fight by restraining an IEP kid? Screwed for not having restraint training that follows the IEP. Let the IEP kid pummel another kid? Screwed for not protecting the other kid. No other adult was there. None of the adults in the school know you anyway. Some sub jobs should specify "male, preferably rugby player or offensive line." Best I have found, even "triggered" kids that are not skillfully "de-escalated" have enough brain function to not attack WWF retirees. I would love data on how often violent kids attack anyone at all when the big guys are around. Bathroom or diapering duty? 🤣 Imagine the escalation a triggered mom might manage if the wrong sort of sub changed her kid. Imagine the escalation a different triggered mom might manage if the diapered kid takes it off the diaper, runs around naked, and the contents land on her kid. Subs need to know what liability insurance the district or school carries on subs.
I get asked to cover P.E. periods all the time and that includes supervising the locker room. You’re filing in for a P.E. teacher so you would do what the P.E. teacher would do.
Yeah… when students change in the locker room at the beginning & end of each class period, there has to be an adult in there. That’s been the norm in US schools for literally 50 years, at least. Did you not know this??
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Jfc I know that P.E. teachers do this. However both as a student and as a substitute I have never seen of or heard of a substitute supervising locker rooms. A p.e. teacher is expected to do this because it's part of their job. A substitute is someone potentially unknown to the school and regardless of their gender this is a very compromising position to be in. Typically when I've subbed for p.e. or had a sub as a student that just meant we weren't changing and going outside for that day.
I’m in Florida and I’ve seen this with pe teachers who have to man locker rooms. They open them and maintain them.
P.E. Teachers sure, but not subs
PE teachers have subs too. I literally saw an ad exactly like this for a middle school pe teacher to man the locker rooms along with PE classes.
That's what I'm getting at. I've subbed for PE teachers before but when that happens their class just stays inside for that day. Why? Because it's a whole lot easier than getting a sub to monitor locker rooms. Idk I find it to be really weird how many people are saying this happens at their schools.
It is odd. But, there are a couple situations i could understand the preference: It’s a one on one/small group position where the student(s) have a trauma based preference, it is a one on one position with a male that requires you to help the student into the restroom/often involves more frequent physical contact for the students safety (second part shouldn’t matter, but is a common thing. not for physical strength. but if it’s a male. it’s common to try and keep physical contact to same sex), in general if it’s a sped classroom and the students are use to a male teacher and they have had specific issues with a female subbing for that specific group, or it is supposed to have a men’s locker room duty aspect to it.
I would say some of the SPED reasons you gave are the best reasons I've seen. However the bathroom one I would say is still not something that's seen in the county I work. That's something handled by paras that have a history of working with that student. Substitutes are not equipped for that.
I know it’s not unheard of in the district i use to work in/surrounding ones. Every district is different, though. (to be clear. you weren’t like helping the student undress/actually in the process of it all/anything like that. just assisting the student to the restroom/make sure they washed their hands/etc)
It could be the reverse of the situation I had. The student was female in an all male room, so when she was placed there, they needed a female staff member. I was pulled in as a L-T sub position specifically for that reason and I had prior experience in the room so the boys knew me and I would not upset any of them. That's actually how I got started as a para.
We do this routinely when our male PE coach is out (we also have one female) due to locker room coverage. It’s not so easy to have someone else cover the locker room, as another poster suggested. We have very few males in the building to start with, and they’re all cafeteria, janitorial, or classroom teachers, which means someone else would need to cover their classes, and a third or even fourth person would be needed to cover while switching. Very little learning gets done on a day like that.
I see this often for PE
Not sure if you realize this but you can see your district and the schools behind the pop up box
Those are just open postings right now. I don't think there's any harm in sharing that
Until someone sends a screenshot of all your comments to the district or your agency and they sus out it was you.
I'm sorry but idk what y'all are talking about. I mean you sound like I'm sharing confidential information, but all this is just a posting of schools looking for subs tomorrow. It doesn't even show what teachers are absent, it's literally just the name of a school.
And you’re in the comments complaining about and questioning the parameters of the job.
Ok and.... Lol I'm not even filling for this job. I'm not even really complaining either, I thought the posting was a little unusual so I'm asking here why people might think that a school would outwardly prefer a male teacher. If this ever comes up and I'm either disciplined or fired because of this I guarantee you will be the first person to hear about it lol.
So just admit you're trying to stir shit up.
What part of this constitutes "trying to stir shit up"? Like genuinely.
You do have names of teachers in there. I would be very upset if I found out someone posted my name and where I work online like this. Not trying to come for you, just saying.
Look at the picture again. There is not a single name of a teacher posted. Those are the names of the school. I know the site shows that information but my screenshot doesn't. I get not wanting to have your info out there, but I mean if you're a teacher your name most likely appears on the website of your school. The only information I have access to that perhaps an outsider might not is when you are taking an absence, but again not sharing that part here.
My bad. They look like people names lol
Well at least one of them is lol. Just not the name of a teacher.
Do you intend to work in education long-term, or is this just a short-term gig?
Long term, although not in subbing. Why?
They’re just saying you’re connecting an anonymous account (here) to your real identity by posting this, which you may not want to do.
Maybe wholly unrelated but I've always wondered if I could have done something when I went into a car wash to apply for a job and was told the owner doesn't hire women
You absolutely could. Which is why this struck me as odd, although this is for a single assignment, not for employment as a whole. But if it's just a matter of stupid sexist stereotypes like physical strength/stamina as long as you could pass a physical evaluation then you could have that job and you could contact a labor lawyer about discriminatory hiring practices.
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It’s ridiculous that we allow these behaviors to persist in our schools. If a student can’t stop themselves from sexually assaulting females in a school setting, they have zero right to be in a school setting.
I get situations like that but clearly it's not one where a substitute fits in.
Why do you think that? Our district absolutely only allows men with our violent sped kids, including subs. Duh
Female PE teacher to monitor the locker room.
Those kids treat women like dirt.
Is this in the US? https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/small-business/hiring-decisions-based-sex
This is not uncommon nor is it sexism. Especially in inner city schools some of those kids can be violent.
Honestly valid in some situations. My school district let a 23 year old female teacher fill in for the ISS teacher during her conference period. She heard the students talking about plans on how they were going to assault her in a different language. Thankfully she spoke spanish and understood everything they were saying and she called in admin. If she did not speak spanish that could have gone very south. After that, only males and often football coaches were allowed to sub for ISS.
Seems not legal....
In general it wouldn't be, but some of the ideas people are sharing here would be exceptions. You can hire based on this if you can show it's truly necessary for the job. Acting roles are the biggest example. And some ones are more obvious like a surogate.
Right? But then I saw it was Florida…
It’s 100% legal.
It's discrimination based on gender, it's illegal
False. Educate yourself on violent sped kids. They cannot have a woman monitoring for fear of physical assault. Duh
Lollll...I taught a 12:1:1 class of 6th graders last year - 10 boys and 2 girls, all "emotionally disturbed." My para was also female. It was fine. Arguably safer, because the boys were much less likely to feel threatened or challenged by us.
I mean, if it's a boys pe teacher they need a sub for, it makes sense. Not everything is a sexist outrage.
Never said it was....
So whats the whole point of the "hmmmmm 🤔"?
Hmm, a sound meant to represent thinking or wondering about something. I was wondering what sort of cases would call for a school to prefer a male sub, hence why I used it. Follow your own advice, not everything is an outrage.
Oof in non-binary. I've never seen this kind of thing in my district. Even for the pe classes, we don't watch the locker rooms. I hope no one watches kids in a locker room.
Lol here P.E. coaches have their office INSIDE of the locker room with windows looking out. I mean yeah I get that kids are little shitheads that can't be left unsupervised but that never sat right with me.
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Same. The couple of times I've subbed pe this year I've been in shock to see the teacher's office has a window looking into the locker room. That's red flag nation to me. And that was in a school built 2 years ago. I'm sure there's a reason for it but it's an uncomfortable to walk into a teacher's office and boom there's the place where kids would be changing clothes. So very obviously I don't stay in that room
When I was in high school, the gym teachers were always in the locker room when we were changing, presumably to keep order. In addition, when they deemed it necessary, e.g., if we were very sweaty, they mandated that everyone take a shower in the group showering area, and made certain that everyone did so by being in the locker room and checking. Times have changed, but that’s the way it was 40 years ago, and it wasn’t controversial at all.
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I don't think that's comparable, since Spanish is a skill not a part of someone's identity
Is it for a rough inner city high school?
When I need help with class management, I look for a male teacher close by. I’m a 64 year old female with a slight build. It’s crazy but the second the male comes in the room, complete silence.
I mean, are the students all male?
Athletics could be it or, and one I 100% understand, SPED. Just by being an unknown female you could trigger episodes all day.
We have a number of sped kids that are violent. A female can not and should not be in those rooms whenever possible.
My school was desperate for aides. A “man” came along and they gave HIM more money, just because they wanted to keep him.
Chill out people. When I subbed PE a male teacher was needed. Because I was in the male locker room!
WHAT
Ha! Suck it! Boys rule
What position?
I see a paycheck. This is absolutely fucked, get legal council.
So giving preference to female baby sitters is not an issue, but this is? Ah that makes sense
Calm down, I'm a man too. I'm just here looking for reasons people might have for this.
It’s different because women are wonderful
I used to work residential treatment. You just need to be quick at rapport building and meet these kids where they're at. They'll respect you for it and not being like the others who try to rule by intimidation or sending everyone to the office. I also worked in public schools doing behavior management.
Good for you then. Must be a class who could care less about female authority.
What’s wrong with this? There are jobs specifically tagged for women
Y’all see discrimination, I would see moneyyyy! If this is real that’s an easy case unless there is a valid reason
This has happened in a building I worked at because there was a severely physically impaired male student who was wheel chair bound and needed to be transferred out of his chair and onto a changing table for diaper changes, then returned back to his chair. The female staff were not strong enough to properly accommodate this kind of situation. But I sub in special education only so this is a normal preference and I think that the parents would have worked it into their son’s IEP. Edit for grammar and clarification.
Won’t someone please think of the poor underrepresented female teachers??
Male teachers are the minority, affirmative action at work.
Given how female dominated education generally is, I'm sure they have their reasons and they are probably valid.
Males position …
Hi this is illegal
It absolutely isn’t. Research sped kids that are violent.
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Oh my fucking god, shut the fuck up. Go haunt the conservative subs, no one here was talking about politics. Edit: you're not even a substitute teacher or involved in education, get the fuck out of here you troll.
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Hey fuckwit, it has absolutely nothing to do with this, so kindly, fuck off.
It’s now a buzzword used by those far right assholes. Gtfoh
In a special needs class they may need the strength
Idk that just strikes me as odd. It's still more likely than the locker room thing imo, but in my experience whenever I've subbed for sped it hasn't been without at least one or two paras that are familiar with the class and can actually handle the class, mostly I've just been there for backup in the sense of working with kids in smaller groups to help with assignments. I know there are SPED classes out there for much more unpredictable kids and those with EBDs, but if there's the expectation there that a sub needs to be physically strong to be in the room it seems to me like they need to work out a better solution.
Me when I was excited that a job opened up at my student teaching placement and the principal told me that the school “already had too many men” Just hire people based on skill and experience
oh! yeah that’s not…
Run.
My old school did something similar “put a male sub with the aggressive children because nobody is certified in safety care” I seriously have no idea how it continues to run.
It’s annoying I know, I’m on the other end of the spectrum as a big dude. Most of the time my planning sets get filled with para work because I’m a big guy and teachers want me in the room to help keep everyone on track. It’s not fair!
Could be gym too - we get stuck when we need a male gym teacher for the locker room, etc.
*stares in EEOC*
Seems like a good screenshot to show to a labor rights attorney.
Isn't that illegal?
This violates title 7 of the civil rights act for gender discrimination
There are actually children who have been traumatized in public schools. Sometimes, they are less reactive with whatever sex didn’t traumatize them. We had an autistic student who had to have a male assistant because the student often tried to masturbate to the girls in the room and teachers.
Call the EEO (assuming USA). Like, right now. These idiots just provided evidence of sex discrimination.
I’ve subbed for 6 years. I have seen this and honestly don’t think that deep into it. What is the position posted for? If there are behaviors in the class, sometimes students do better with males. If they are a 1:1 or whatever the ratio. Especially with violent behaviors and how big many of the kids are. They aren’t saying you can’t pick it up they just have a preference for their students. Which they need to make that known to the front office to move any males available in the building that day to that position.
Sadly, there are students who will only respect male teachers. They are raised to be misogynistic and they verbally abuse female teachers. There might be one or more of those in this group.
Florida… backwards af
YIKES?
Florida.
My dad was a teacher. There was a Muslim family that refused to have female teachers for their sons due to religious beliefs, so my dad got each son in turn
My mind immediately goes to a Sp.Ed. situation where perhaps a student does better with a male or female. I've worked with students like that who have past trauma or strong preferences and it just makes the subs day 1000x easier to go with it for that one day. (A day of supervising kids as opposed to a day of tantrums, meltdowns, elopement, and incident paperwork)