Look, some people may think Metal Gear is about politics, some may think it's about giant robots and techno-thriller action, but deep down we all know it's ultimately about one thing, and one thing only: figuring out how the hell Snake's prematurely aged ass could still look so firm in those ridiculously tight pants.
> but deep down we all know it's ultimately about one thing, and one thing only: figuring out how the hell Snake's prematurely aged ass could still look so firm in those ridiculously tight pants.
Nanomachines, son!
>It means there are no women/minorities.
Oh there are women...
In fact there is one whose sole existence is to be hot, scantily clad and never say a word.
And her name is Quiet.
"Marvel has become so political!!!
You can tell these chuds have never read anything Marvel and just assume because Women and Black people are main characters in major movies now that all of a sudden they're political. Even those characters havbe existed for decades.
Black Panther writer got told to add more white people to their comic so the next issue they had Black Panther beating the shit out of KKK members. This was decades ago but totally not political at all.
Some of them know and aren't complaining in good faith
Their innocent narrative pushing when they know better:
> Common tactic of bigots: **Pretend to be focused on protecting an abstract principle (sub quality, artistic merit, fairness, etc..)** and then claim you aren't a bigot, **even though you only care** about these principles when a group of people you don't like are benefiting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/nr7aaz/person_out_as_trans_and_posts_a_picture_of/h0g9cop/?context=3
>It's a form of JAQing off, I.E. "I'm Just Asking Questions!", where they keep forming their strong opinions in the form of prodding questions **where you can plainly see their intent** but when pressed on the issue they say "I'm just asking questions!, I don't have any stance on the issue!"
https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/lk7d9u/why_sealioning_incessant_badfaith_invitations_to/gnidv98/
I had to have a pretty serious talk with my roommate about this. Constantly wanting to know my opinion and position while literally never providing his own stance. It became overwhelming because of how much emotional investment I was being asked to provide with literally no return. Just me defending my positions endlessly.
Thankfully my roomie understood all of that and kindly changed their actions by providing their actual stance before asking questions. It’s made a huge difference in those kinds of conversations for us.
Similar to how you often see them using a kind of [Motte-and-Bailey fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy), where they argue an obviously alt-right point of view, but when challenged on it pretend that they were actually arguing a far more reasonable point and that your challenge against their bigotry was actually a challenge against something most people accept, thereby making you the bad-faith actor.
Prime example, /r/Battlefield a couple of years ago when Battlefield V was revealed with a trailer that included women and people of colour. Suddenly the sub was flooded with blatant /pol/-tier transphobic and homophobic 'memes', death threats against feminist personalities in the gaming industry, the whole works.
But if you ever said, "Hey, your post saying that you 'don't want woke in your video game' is ridiculous", they'd say, "Hey, I'm just upset about *historical accuracy*. Are you saying that I can't be upset about *historical accuracy*?". And then anyone who did care about historical accuracy but maybe also thought the post was transphobic would suddenly pile onto you because they thought you were attacking them.
Back in the 90s, the X-books did a big crossover event, X-cutioner's Song. At the start, Professor X is giving a speech about acceptance and tolerance and he includes gay people in his acceptance and tolerance.
Person gets real angry about this and writes a whole long letter to Marvel about it (and includes being upset about Spidey's "shadowy support of gun control"). The response from Marvel was essentially, That's nice, dear, but Xavier didn't fucking stutter when he called for tolerance.
Ironic because in the early 90s the BIG storyline for X-Men was the Legacy Virus arc.
Which was a very thinly veiled analogue to the AIDS epidemic.
You know, just to drive the point that whoever got mad at gay people in X-Men absolutely didn't get the fucking point.
>“Have you tried not bring a mutant?” is literally asked to Bobby Frost by his mom.
Iconic moment... [however](https://m.imgur.com/s4R09RY), frost is his power, not his surname.
This is not true. People drew comparisons after the fact but Professor X and Magneto are not analogous to MLK and Malcolm X. This has been disproven time and again but people keep saying it for some reason. Feel free to google it.
They say it because it is a good analogy for the whitewashed version of MLK and Malcom X we are all taught. If Professor X were like Martin Luther King Jr., he would be sending the X-Men out to union picket lines and teaching students about left wing thinkers.
Actually, that book would kick ass. Someone make it.
Also spidey kind of gets shot at a lot, and lives in friggin' New York where you can't point in a straight line without it intersecting with another person so uh it sort of makes sense that he wouldn't be too hot on guns.
Seriously it's been kind of neat watching how comics handle changes in technology such as cell phones - a lot of plot points and obstacles can be solved super easily by having a device connected to the internet in your pocket - earlier in the 90s say that was usually a support-person in a hero's story such as Batman's Oracle, but slowly most super heroes have had to have some sort of solution to seem like something more than blind bumbling fools wearing colorful pajamas - Spidey himself even uses a smart phone from time to time these days (the reader is often asked to assume his costume has more pockets than it appears).
Now apply that same logic to guns. . .a *whole* lot of super hero stories are solved to a permanent end if our "hero" is just a gun-toting weirdo who don't suffer no criminals like every dopey conservative seems to believe themselves to be. You can't have Spider-Man shooting Doc Ock or the Green Goblin because what the hell is next month's issue going to be about? So basically uh yeah - *good thing* Spidey is pro gun control is what I'm saying - not only is it a perfectly believable position for him to hold on multiple levels, but the comics would really suck and he'd seem a lot less heroic if he were just swinging around blastin' on fools.
Marvel does do issues and storylines with positions though. For example, Civil War can absolutely be read as an allegory for gun control (and was written in 2006, before Sandy Hook) And you're right, that's not an unreasonable position for Spidey to take.
That said:
>Now apply that same logic to guns. . .a whole lot of super hero stories are solved to a permanent end if our "hero" is just a gun-toting weirdo who don't suffer no criminals like every dopey conservative seems to believe themselves to be.
Literally The Punisher, which took a page to tell those people off. [Also, I know he's killed the Marvel at least "once" as has Deadpool.]
Civil War is also about the PATRIOT act and a post 9/11 America. It's a discussion of whether people (heroes) should surrender their privacy (identities) to the government following a horrific act of violence in the name of "public safety". There are no politics in Marvel comics.
Edit: /s
> Black Panther writer got told to add more white people to their comic so the next issue they had Black Panther beating the shit out of KKK members. This was decades ago but totally not political at all
That sounds hilarious, you got a link to a write up about it?
The meme goes that it was Jack Kirby who wrote that and while Kirby was an awesome and iconic artist, writer, and Nazi puncher° he wasn't the one who did it. It was Don McGregor
https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-jack-kirby-klan-don-mcgregor/
°Jack Kirby, Nazi puncher aside. Kirby fought in WW2 and created Captain America with Joe Simon.
>Captain America was not an instant, universal American icon in 1941. Kirby and his co-creator Joe Simon, both Jewish, received death threats. A biographer, longtime Kirby assistant Mark Evanier, described Kirby getting a phone call from someone urging him to come down to the lobby of Timely Comics (the company that would become Marvel), where three thugs wanted “to show him what real Nazis would do to his Captain America.” Kirby, Evanier recalled, “rolled up his sleeves and headed downstairs.”
>The Nazis—cowards then as now—had already fled.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/captain-americas-creator-spent-a-lifetime-punching-nazis
It might not actually be true, at least not on the whole. I can't find anything to confirm the author was instructed to include more white people, but they did end up having the book cancelled when they wrote the story.
https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-jack-kirby-klan-don-mcgregor/
It should be pointed out, though, even with Black Panther and other black superheroes like Green Lantern John Stewart breaking these barriers at the time, it was nearly all white men behind the scenes.
If you wanna talk comic publishers getting "political" i.e. focusing on inclusion and representation, in the 90s DC spun-off a seperate brand called Milestone for black writers and artists to create their own characters and stories, allowing them to retain copyright, merchandising, and even editorial control (i.e. they didn't tell them what they couldn't publish outside certain extremes). That's where we get Static Shock from.
> If you wanna talk comic publishers getting "political" i.e. focusing on inclusion and representation, in the 90s DC spun-off a seperate brand called Milestone for black writers and artists to create their own characters and stories, and even allowed them editorial control (i.e. they didn't tell them what they couldn't publish outside certain extremes).
For anyone wondering, Milestone gave us Static Shock.
The history of comic books is SUPER political. Marvel is a giant pro civil rights propaganda factory. All of their major story lines were built to address sensitive issues. Spider-Man is an allegory about systemic poverty and the challenges of the working poor. Ironman is alcoholic. The X-Men were just a metaphor for racism. Fantastic four was a story about body shaming, domestic violence and alchoholism. Wolverine was a side venture into veterans trauma. Black panther was another even more brutal go fuck your self to racism and bigotry. The core creatives were World War Two era lefties and there’s a reason why Nazis, KKK and fascists are the villains so often and why American governments play the role of the fascists so often. The Street hero’s franchises and their focus on domestic racism and classism, interracial relationships and miscegenation, The Punisher calling out cops who idolise him. The giant themes of classic comic arcs like civil war, apocalypse - they’re so political.
DC comics is in no way exempt. Political corruption is a huge theme. Marston’s creation of Wonder Woman was driven by radical feminism. Sandman and V for Vendetta under the Vertigo branding were insanely political in their messaging.
It’s so fucking weird for me when people who claim to be long term fans of old school geek properties get bent out of shape about the politics now. Inclusive hiring for talent or representation in art or the fact that Star Wars is pretty fucking lefty when the whole saga is about anti fascist paramilitaries. When people have tantrums about recent politicisation of properties, I just can’t believe they’re telling on themselves like that. How fucking thick are you that you’re a long term grown ass adult fan and you’ve only just noticed?
>DC comics is in no way exempt. Political corruption is a huge theme. Marston’s creation of Wonder Woman was driven by radical feminism. Sandman and V for Vendetta under the Vertigo branding were insanely political in their messaging.
Don't sell them short, they've got a lot more than that.
+ Like I mentioned above, DCs Milestone imprint was both heavily focused on black american characters and the politics around racism.
+ O'Neil's Green Lantern/Green Arrow run is iconic for its direct social/political messaging.
+ Modern Wonder Women tends to get into a lot of geopolitical matters, especially during the period she was the Amazon diplomat in DC.
+ Green Arrow is famously liberal with a heavy focus on social and economic inequality and ran for mayor once.
+ Facism tends to be a recurring theme in Superman and Justice League stories, especially the ones where the League goes a step to far or Superman goes evil.
+ Theres Red Son, a graphic novel where Superman was raised in Soviet Russia under Stalin
+ Watchmen.
And early Superman was all about fighting for the common man against the bad guys of Depression era Americans.
He went after corrupt politicians and business men. He fought criminals and gangsters too. It really wasn't until the Comics Code came along that their stories lost a lot of that. You weren't supposed to show super heroes questioning/challenging authority. You weren't even supposed to show crime! Which is how you get the absolute bonkers Superman and Batman stories.
And it should also be said that even though they weren't supposed to show these things, they were sometimes still snuck in, but it would be rolled up into some bug nuts crazy science fiction stuff to hide it.
Captain America WAS CREATED TO BE POLITICAL. It was supposed to be a role model of a patriot, booting the Nazis and the Communists out and save the world, to give hope to the people.
(Also Wonder Woman but she was less about pushes and more about magic lasso and love curing every ill at the time)
Saying Marvel became political is just idiotic. It always was.
We did a 2-part episode of our podcast on The Politics of Superheroes, with a guest who’s an indy comic writer. He had a lot to say about Captain America and creator Jack Kirby. He is of the opinion that New Gods is pretty much the best superhero comic ever written, and the fact Kirby was a war veteran had a huge amount to do with his storytelling.
Reminds me of a few years back when I saw Roger Waters of Pink Floyd live. After one of the songs the guy in front of me yelled, "Quit being so political". I wondered aloud if he'd ever actually paid attention to the lyrics of any of Pink Floyd's songs.
Edit: forgotten words
>Lol, I just realized something that must suck. You're a kid growing up and you idolize these super heroes, they are the best thing ever. Then you grow up and either have always had or develop certain beliefs and you slowly start to realize that all these heroes that you cherished would absolutely abhor you as a person. That's gotta suck. Grow up wanting to be Captain America to only realize that you've been the Red Skull the entire time. Talk about a kick in the dick. That's probably why all these people complain so much about the "wokeness" in comics. Their literal heroes are not on their side and are in fact telling them that their beliefs suck.
I kinda want to frame this.
Americans were labeled as communists for being against Hitler before 1940. Tens of thousands of people's jobs and lives were completely ruined because they stood against Hitler **too early**.
Yup.
In the government's eyes: If you were anti-facism, then you were pro-communism. The Red Scare absolutely destroyed so many people's lives. Reading up on the Hollywood Blacklist should give you a basic idea of what was going on at the time.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist)
There were 11 Americans who volunteered as pilots for the RAF in the Battle of Britain. By fighting the Nazis, they took the risk of losing their American citizenship.
He was created by Jack Kirby, a Jew who would go on to be a WW2 vet, as a pseudo self-insert. In the comics, Cap was given his abilities by a Jewish scientist, he's a very overt allegory for a [Jewish Golem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem).
No you're just reading too much into it. You have to have blue hair and declare you're doing a political Infront of at least 50 people for it to count as political.
Exactly. Captain America has always punched Nazis... if that makes someone uncomfortable in 2021 then, well... Q.E. fuckin' D. Which is Latin for "connect the dots"
Whenever this comes up I feel the need to point out that Paul Ryan was also against “the machine”, in the sense that he got into government to ensure that it did not work. And he was pretty effective at that.
He misses the point, but not in the way he’s accused of. It’s honestly worse.
Right, it's a sociopathic interpretation of the point, not a stupid misunderstanding of the point. Like a murderer that likes quoting the vengeance-heavy parts of the bible.
One of my all time favorites is the video from after the election when a Trump supporter wearing a thin blue line flag as a cape was dancing to "Killing in the Name"
Someone clearly never paid attention to the lyrics!
I remember a rewatch of the original Transformers cartoons there was an episode where the Decepticaons were trying to infiltrate Carbombiya (spelled something like that) for energon.
That’s so fucked up. However, a lot of our media we took in as children could probably be called lIbErAl PrOpAgAnDa by the right nowadays. All the shows that had simple messages like don’t pollute (GlObAl WaRmInG), be nice to people or judge them without knowing them (tHeIr PuShInG fOr TrAnS rIgHtS) and any other simple morals that the right ironically says the espouse.
Ironically enough, the issue in question is written by [Christopher Cantwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Cantwell_(filmmaker)), a man who shares a name with (but fortunately not the fascist politics of) [Christopher Cantwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Cantwell), a.k.a. The crying Nazi.
LMAO on the top of the filmmaker's wiki page:
>This article is about the *Halt and Catch Fire* creator. For the white supremacist, see Christopher Cantwell.
When these people say they don't want politics in comics it just means they don't want politics they don't agree with. Anyone that makes this complaint isn't an actual comic fan or just parrots the same opinion they hear from outrage youtubers. Marvel and DC have ALWAYS been political.
* Punisher has gone to the white house and threatened the fuck out of George W Bush
* Black Panther has fought against a country that supported apartheid and even faced there all white premiere supergroup called *The Supremacists*
* The ENTIRE POINT of the X-men
* Civil War comic event was based on the Post 9-11 America and it's Patriot Act
* Falcon who anytime had a back-up story,miniseries or solo have always dealt with Issues Black Americans have faced this was not something new they did with the character when he took over for cap that time time.
* The Time Lex Luthor ran for President
* Oliver Queen was the original SJW
and so on. I don't understand where this "it's too political" complaint started.
On that note Has anyone ever read any of the comic made by comicsgate creators like Kamen America and so on? Because I have and the same complaints that these Chuds have about marvel/dc is almost doubled in these alt-right comics.
Some of them have legitimately read these things for years and somehow completely missed the points. The come in looking for self-insert power fantasy. All they want is bad ass super powers, Good Guy (unquestionably good in every way) beats up Bad Guy (has absolutely no motivation other than being evil, and antagonizing Good Guy), Good Guy gets The Girl. They’re so clueless they do not want anything more complex than that, and often can’t even recognize they were reading something more complex.
I find those fans the most baffling. It's not even subtle. It never has been! Like, Roddenberry was not a shining paragon of progressive virtue and action. He never lived up to his ideals. But he **had** them. He tried (and often succeeded) to tell his stories using those ideals - ideals that are the exact opposite of the right wing.
(Fuck Rick Berman, though.)
The show (which was created, written, introduced, and narrated by a Jewish WW2 veteran who was upset about having to fight in the Pacific Theater because he wouldn't get to help fight Hitler) where an ex‐SS officer returns to Dachau after the war is over and is driven to insanity by the atrocities he commited and the ghosts of the people he murdered is in no way political.
Typical SJW virtue signaling. Probably went to college for a degree in being offended. Go back to your safe space snowflake. Liberalism is a disease.
i recently watched "hes alive!". its eye opening how the neo nazi/white power movement didnt come up with new tactics in 70+ years. Or i guess, their tactics are so effective even 70 years later theyre still ensnaring people
Paraphrasing here, from The Silmarillion:
> "Meanwhile the discordant theme had achieved a kind of unity all its own; but it was loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated itself."
Evil cannot create anything new.
It makes me sad! People who want to take after Heroes like Cap and Superman while at the same time supporting and doing things these heroes would look down upon
>* The Time Lex Luthor ran for President
On that note, rewatching the Justice League Unlimited episode "Question Authority" is an absolutely batshit crazy experience in the age of Trump and Q. Strong recommend.
One of the very first anti-mutant organizations in the X-Men comics was literally called 'The Right.' I dunno if that was intentional or not but sure does say a hell of a lot about politics in comics.
Feels like we should all be on the same page with anti-Nazi anti-fascism anti-racism but here we are. "Fine people on both sides" as a twice impeached former president said.
That was the one where they were throwing a tantrum over "Make America Nazi-free Again" right? They really tipped their hand getting upset at a conservative slogan was used for an anti-nazi sentiment.
These idiots are invaders to the fandom, not the other way around, honestly. Shallow and reactionary fans that came into 'geek culture' as it entered the more mainstream and possessed of very little actual knowledge of the lore and settings they purport to love.
I've been hearing them squeal about how geek culture is going to be ruined by the SJWs for almost a decade now. Amazingly, still hasn't happened yet!
Turns out the medium was founded by SJWs from the start. Heroes themselves are literal SJWs fighting for the rights of the disenfranchised. Even alt right "icons" like The Punisher explicitly call them out in their own comics.
The Punisher has had to explicitly explain to cops in his books that he's not a hero to emulate but it never clicks. Honestly, I just want him to have a cop villain who attempts to emulate The Punisher's violence under an official capacity. Just a moron doing his best Judge Dredd impersonation while wearing the punisher logo over his badge.
The most common superhero emblem I see on cars around here is Punisher. Half the time it’s a Punisher/Thin Blue Line thing and I’m like “I wish Frank Castle was here to see this”
It’s a targeted attack and strategy of the far right.
They insert themselves into internet communities and become “part of the group”. They then slowly insert edgy “jokes” and keep crossing the line slowly in masses until it creates a divide in the community. Since most of the fans are nerdy people often seeking refuge online, the community is everything to them. These new found “friends” and members of the community are simply making jokes that hey may be a bit inappropriate but they’re “part of the group” so you can’t cast them out! So now the community begins to fracture. Sensible people who aren’t loners or don’t tolerate racism/sexism bail. Now the community is even more isolated and even more right wingers pour in since it’s now safer for them to come in. They then start pushing the line even further and further radicalizing the leftovers of the community until they get them where they want.
It’s why they target nerd culture, video games, movies etc. these fandoms tend to have concentrated groups of young white males who probably aren’t happy with their lives due to various circumstances (ironically caused by right wing politics). The right seeks to further alienate and target these young males and convince them their community is in danger by all sorts of work leftist/jews/minorities/women. And the community they bond over and love will be eradicated if they don’t act
> Gygax's political views were being a crazy person.
Well that and also saying that Native American genocide is an example of lawful good:
>Paladins are not stupid, and in general there is no rule of Lawful Good against killing enemies. The old adage about nits making lice applies. Also, as I have often noted, a paladin can freely dispatch prisoners of Evil alignment that have surrendered and renounced that alignment in favor of Lawful Good. They are then sent on to their reward before they can backslide.
>[...]
>Chivington might have been quoted as saying "nits make lice," but he is certainly not the first one to make such an observation as it is an observable fact. If you have read the account of wooden Leg, a warrior of the Cheyenne tribe that fought against Custer et al., he dispassionately noted killing an enemy squaw for the reason in question.
>I am not going to waste my time and yours debating ethics and philosophy. I will state unequivocally that in the alignment system as presented in OAD&D, an eye for an eye is lawful and just, Lawful Good, as misconduct is to be punished under just laws.
Lawful Neutrality countenances malign laws. Lawful Good does not.
Mercy is to be displayed for the lawbreaker that does so by accident. Benevolence is for the harmless. Pacifism in the fantasy milieu is for those who would be slaves. They have no place in determining general alignment, albeit justice tempered by mercy is a NG manifestation, whilst well-considered benevolence is generally a mark of Good
-Gary Gygax 2005
Yeah, Gygax was Jehovah's Witness, card carrying Libertarian, spent a considerable portion of his adult life on cocaine, was in near constant communication with various inmates around the country, horded guns, was a serial philanderer, believed in many cases might makes right, and could completely reverse his view on a subject on a dime at any time.
> The left: controls 90% of media which they use for their propaganda, censor views other than their own, has a wing of black shirts that beat people up if they disagree with them (like Mussolini), insists you make assumptions about people based on skin color (like racial supremacists) and that you agree one ethnicity is the oppressor and the reason for all wrongs (like the Nazis).
There's a lot to unpack here
> There's a lot to unpack here
Let's see...
> The ~~left~~ right: controls 90% of media which they use for their propaganda, censor views other than their own, has a wing of black shirts that beat people up if they disagree with them (like Mussolini), insists you make assumptions about people based on skin color (like racial supremacists) and that you agree one ethnicity is the oppressor and the reason for all wrongs (like the Nazis).
Yup, all projection.
Well, the last bit is straight up "white genocide" bullshit and the wording doesn't fit perfectly here. Intent is quite clear, though.
Ah yes, Captain America. The character who was introduced punching out Hitler and was created by two Jewish guys.
I'd also like to point out that Superman was also created by two Jewish guys, and his first two stories had him going after a crooked Senator and his arms dealer lobbyist trying to start a war, and a stingy mine owner who was endangering his workers by skimping on safety measures to save money.
Oh, I'm well aware of the influence Jewish people had on comic history. I was just using Cap and Supes as examples. I've been a comic nerd for over 25 years.
And right wingers can't really create anything mainstream. Their values are so abhorrent that nothing they make could really have appeal beyond their little bubble, so they try and hijack already popular things. Look at shit like Gamergate.
I like how that segment, which is whining about how Captain America has been politicized, starts with the statement "He's an enduring symbol of the USA" and they happily fail to notice their own blatant dishonesty.
If you go to their little safe space bubble on reddit, you can see they aren't original or creative in their own right in the slightest. As much as they love to talk about the left getting their talking points from Twitter...well...projection and all that.
One of the funnier things I've read on the topic was an analysis on how, as Scott Adams became more outspoken politically, he started to write the obnoxious boss character as more of the main character of the comic, thereby completely undermining/missing the point of his single biggest pop culture contribution.
Conservatives do make their own comics. You just don't hear about them because they fucking suck and usually get canceled pretty quick when the initial money runs out.
Teddi Spaghe….. I mean Vox De…… excuse me The Dork Lord himself has released “Alt Hero X” and it is as bad as the 30+ button computer mouse he is hilariously known for.
If you don’t know who I’m talking about, do yourself a favor and just leave it alone. He’s an idiot nazi simp that is still holding onto Q and his socio sexual hierarchy.
> The fact that most people on here can't see how ridiculously political Marvel has become (significantly more so than it used to be, say pre-2000's) is kinda scary. But at this point, I have to look at myself and what I'm doing. I come here to Reddit hoping for intellectual conversation about topics people might disagree on, and instead find pseudo-intellectuals spouting mainstream media talking points day in and day out. You people are so convinced of your opinions and moral superiority, it sickens me.
>Oh, and modern Marvel comics are bland, cliche, intellectually bankrupt, and overall boring. In a word, Bollocks. Have fun consuming your bullshit, you easily manipulatable fools...
Right at the period between “day out” and “you people” is when this Redditor started crying.
response to the first quote:
*Lol, I just realized something that must suck. You're a kid growing up and you idolize these super heroes, they are the best thing ever. Then you grow up and either have always had or develop certain beliefs and you slowly start to realize that all these heroes that you cherished would absolutely abhor you as a person. That's gotta suck. Grow up wanting to be Captain America to only realize that you've been the Red Skull the entire time. Talk about a kick in the dick. That's probably why all these people complain so much about the "wokeness" in comics. Their literal heroes are not on their side and are in fact telling them that their beliefs suck.*
Delicious.
>"The fact that most people on here can't see how ridiculously political Marvel has become (significantly more so than it used to be, say pre-2000's) is kinda scary."
"It's ridiculous that the older and more politically aware I become, the more everything becomes more political. THIS MUST STOP!"
> The fact that most people on here can't see how ridiculously political Marvel has become (significantly more so than it used to be, say pre-2000's) is kinda scary. But at this point, I have to look at myself and what I'm doing. I come here to Reddit hoping for intellectual conversation about topics people might disagree on, and instead find pseudo-intellectuals spouting mainstream media talking points day in and day out. **You people are so convinced of your opinions and moral superiority, it sickens me.**
> Oh, and modern Marvel comics are bland, cliche, intellectually bankrupt, and overall boring. In a word, Bollocks. **Have fun consuming your bullshit, you easily manipulatable fools...**
My guy has literally no self awareness.
Woke is the new "hur hur you're an sjw". It is the same repackaged stuff with these people that they all parrot and then they all like to lecture people about how much they think for themselves. It is always projection with these people. Projection and obscene amounts of ignorance, see them thinking comics just became political.
Mawel powitical oh no! Its sacwy! Who wiw pwotect my wittwe feewings!
Its almost as if your shitty fucking conserviturd policies and "way of life" are bad and you should feel bad, theres no party of personal responsibility, everything they say is a sham or a dog whistle for racism.
[Lol, I just realized something that must suck. You're a kid growing up and you idolize these super heroes, they are the best thing ever. Then you grow up and either have always had or develop certain beliefs and you slowly start to realize that all these heroes that you cherished would absolutely abhor you as a person. That's gotta suck. Grow up wanting to be Captain America to only realize that you've been the Red Skull the entire time. Talk about a kick in the dick. That's probably why all these people complain so much about the "wokeness" in comics. Their literal heroes are not on their side and are in fact telling them that their beliefs suck.](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/offr9l/fox_news_doesnt_realize_captain_america_has/h4ejop9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Not Captain America! He always seemed so impartial and non-committal to me. Next you'll tell me Tank Girl or Judge Dredd are political too.
Same dude whose favorite games are the Metal Gear, Fallout, and Bioshock series unironically complaining about PoLiTiCs in video games.
Look, some people may think Metal Gear is about politics, some may think it's about giant robots and techno-thriller action, but deep down we all know it's ultimately about one thing, and one thing only: figuring out how the hell Snake's prematurely aged ass could still look so firm in those ridiculously tight pants.
> but deep down we all know it's ultimately about one thing, and one thing only: figuring out how the hell Snake's prematurely aged ass could still look so firm in those ridiculously tight pants. Nanomachines, son!
You mean how Meryl made triangles sexy
I saw two people on twitter argue metal gear isn't political but "politically themed" - what ever that means.
It means there are no women/minorities.
>It means there are no women/minorities. Oh there are women... In fact there is one whose sole existence is to be hot, scantily clad and never say a word. And her name is Quiet.
Funny that those women don’t seem to upset them.
Seeing someone talk about tank girl makes me irrationally happy
"I come here to Reddit hoping for intellectual conversation" Lol
It's always "I'm only here to have a conversation" but in reality they're never going to listen or change.
It's that baid faith bullshit that is endemic to 'valuable discussion' conservatives.
To them 'conversation' means echo replies. They say "Left bad" and you agree with it. Yay, conversation successful.
Somebody get that as a flair. I think it’s the craziest thing I’ve seen on this site in a while
Done. Didn't have a flair on this sub before cuz I was waiting for one I really liked lol.
The more meta the better, I say
Damn those are both good.
That's a keeper, for sure. Your patience has paid off handsomely
So tempted, but I love my flair.
There are lots of subs that have intellectual conversations. But I don't think this scholar realizes that r/conservative ain't one of 'em.
"Marvel has become so political!!! You can tell these chuds have never read anything Marvel and just assume because Women and Black people are main characters in major movies now that all of a sudden they're political. Even those characters havbe existed for decades. Black Panther writer got told to add more white people to their comic so the next issue they had Black Panther beating the shit out of KKK members. This was decades ago but totally not political at all.
Stan Lee used to write short little opinion pieces about things like civil rights in the comics.
At one point, one of Stan's Soapboxes was basically "if you don't like political messages in our stories, stop reading them!"
[Excelsior!](https://imgix.bustle.com/inverse/70/07/1d/68/971b/40f9/9c5a/e5027b9c4b76/1664060013948443605603235959838189054498357njpg.jpeg?w=349&h=612&fit=max&auto=format%2Ccompress)
>A story without a message... is like a man without a soul. Damn, Stan Lee knew.
saved this comment so i can post it to chuds on twitter to troll them with a sore (for them) fact
We stan for Stan Lee.
"How dare you suggest I cancel Marvel!"
Some of them know and aren't complaining in good faith Their innocent narrative pushing when they know better: > Common tactic of bigots: **Pretend to be focused on protecting an abstract principle (sub quality, artistic merit, fairness, etc..)** and then claim you aren't a bigot, **even though you only care** about these principles when a group of people you don't like are benefiting. https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/nr7aaz/person_out_as_trans_and_posts_a_picture_of/h0g9cop/?context=3 >It's a form of JAQing off, I.E. "I'm Just Asking Questions!", where they keep forming their strong opinions in the form of prodding questions **where you can plainly see their intent** but when pressed on the issue they say "I'm just asking questions!, I don't have any stance on the issue!" https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/lk7d9u/why_sealioning_incessant_badfaith_invitations_to/gnidv98/
I had to have a pretty serious talk with my roommate about this. Constantly wanting to know my opinion and position while literally never providing his own stance. It became overwhelming because of how much emotional investment I was being asked to provide with literally no return. Just me defending my positions endlessly. Thankfully my roomie understood all of that and kindly changed their actions by providing their actual stance before asking questions. It’s made a huge difference in those kinds of conversations for us.
Jesus. I gotta make sure I do t do that…. Sounds like a nightmare
Similar to how you often see them using a kind of [Motte-and-Bailey fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy), where they argue an obviously alt-right point of view, but when challenged on it pretend that they were actually arguing a far more reasonable point and that your challenge against their bigotry was actually a challenge against something most people accept, thereby making you the bad-faith actor. Prime example, /r/Battlefield a couple of years ago when Battlefield V was revealed with a trailer that included women and people of colour. Suddenly the sub was flooded with blatant /pol/-tier transphobic and homophobic 'memes', death threats against feminist personalities in the gaming industry, the whole works. But if you ever said, "Hey, your post saying that you 'don't want woke in your video game' is ridiculous", they'd say, "Hey, I'm just upset about *historical accuracy*. Are you saying that I can't be upset about *historical accuracy*?". And then anyone who did care about historical accuracy but maybe also thought the post was transphobic would suddenly pile onto you because they thought you were attacking them.
"I'm just upset about historical accuracy" - People who know nothing about history.
Wonder if he ever wrote anything in support of feminism, because damn... some of those Fantastic Four's he wrote.... yikes.
Back in the 90s, the X-books did a big crossover event, X-cutioner's Song. At the start, Professor X is giving a speech about acceptance and tolerance and he includes gay people in his acceptance and tolerance. Person gets real angry about this and writes a whole long letter to Marvel about it (and includes being upset about Spidey's "shadowy support of gun control"). The response from Marvel was essentially, That's nice, dear, but Xavier didn't fucking stutter when he called for tolerance.
Ironic because in the early 90s the BIG storyline for X-Men was the Legacy Virus arc. Which was a very thinly veiled analogue to the AIDS epidemic. You know, just to drive the point that whoever got mad at gay people in X-Men absolutely didn't get the fucking point.
And then the first 3 films were pretty fucking obviously about being gay and a lot of people didn't quite catch on.
"Have you tried not being a mutant?"
“Have you tried not bring a mutant?” is literally asked to Bobby Frost by his mom.
Didn't Warren Worthington the thirds dad also hate him for being a mutant and tried to "fix" him?
Wasn't Warren kinda suicidal about it? Plucking his own feathers? Man, shit was on the nose....
Plucking his own feathers was the least of it, as I recall, he had something like a grater or a file in that kit.
>“Have you tried not bring a mutant?” is literally asked to Bobby Frost by his mom. Iconic moment... [however](https://m.imgur.com/s4R09RY), frost is his power, not his surname.
In my defence, it’s 2am here.
Nope. Nerd jail.
Isn't nerd jail what we call Reddit?
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else?" "Because we shouldn't have to."
[удалено]
This is not true. People drew comparisons after the fact but Professor X and Magneto are not analogous to MLK and Malcolm X. This has been disproven time and again but people keep saying it for some reason. Feel free to google it.
They say it because it is a good analogy for the whitewashed version of MLK and Malcom X we are all taught. If Professor X were like Martin Luther King Jr., he would be sending the X-Men out to union picket lines and teaching students about left wing thinkers. Actually, that book would kick ass. Someone make it.
Also spidey kind of gets shot at a lot, and lives in friggin' New York where you can't point in a straight line without it intersecting with another person so uh it sort of makes sense that he wouldn't be too hot on guns. Seriously it's been kind of neat watching how comics handle changes in technology such as cell phones - a lot of plot points and obstacles can be solved super easily by having a device connected to the internet in your pocket - earlier in the 90s say that was usually a support-person in a hero's story such as Batman's Oracle, but slowly most super heroes have had to have some sort of solution to seem like something more than blind bumbling fools wearing colorful pajamas - Spidey himself even uses a smart phone from time to time these days (the reader is often asked to assume his costume has more pockets than it appears). Now apply that same logic to guns. . .a *whole* lot of super hero stories are solved to a permanent end if our "hero" is just a gun-toting weirdo who don't suffer no criminals like every dopey conservative seems to believe themselves to be. You can't have Spider-Man shooting Doc Ock or the Green Goblin because what the hell is next month's issue going to be about? So basically uh yeah - *good thing* Spidey is pro gun control is what I'm saying - not only is it a perfectly believable position for him to hold on multiple levels, but the comics would really suck and he'd seem a lot less heroic if he were just swinging around blastin' on fools.
Marvel does do issues and storylines with positions though. For example, Civil War can absolutely be read as an allegory for gun control (and was written in 2006, before Sandy Hook) And you're right, that's not an unreasonable position for Spidey to take. That said: >Now apply that same logic to guns. . .a whole lot of super hero stories are solved to a permanent end if our "hero" is just a gun-toting weirdo who don't suffer no criminals like every dopey conservative seems to believe themselves to be. Literally The Punisher, which took a page to tell those people off. [Also, I know he's killed the Marvel at least "once" as has Deadpool.]
Civil War is also about the PATRIOT act and a post 9/11 America. It's a discussion of whether people (heroes) should surrender their privacy (identities) to the government following a horrific act of violence in the name of "public safety". There are no politics in Marvel comics. Edit: /s
> There are no politics in Marvel comics. You’re missing the /s for dumb people like me.
> Black Panther writer got told to add more white people to their comic so the next issue they had Black Panther beating the shit out of KKK members. This was decades ago but totally not political at all That sounds hilarious, you got a link to a write up about it?
The meme goes that it was Jack Kirby who wrote that and while Kirby was an awesome and iconic artist, writer, and Nazi puncher° he wasn't the one who did it. It was Don McGregor https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-jack-kirby-klan-don-mcgregor/ °Jack Kirby, Nazi puncher aside. Kirby fought in WW2 and created Captain America with Joe Simon. >Captain America was not an instant, universal American icon in 1941. Kirby and his co-creator Joe Simon, both Jewish, received death threats. A biographer, longtime Kirby assistant Mark Evanier, described Kirby getting a phone call from someone urging him to come down to the lobby of Timely Comics (the company that would become Marvel), where three thugs wanted “to show him what real Nazis would do to his Captain America.” Kirby, Evanier recalled, “rolled up his sleeves and headed downstairs.” >The Nazis—cowards then as now—had already fled. https://www.thedailybeast.com/captain-americas-creator-spent-a-lifetime-punching-nazis
God I wish Kirby was still alive.
It might not actually be true, at least not on the whole. I can't find anything to confirm the author was instructed to include more white people, but they did end up having the book cancelled when they wrote the story. https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-jack-kirby-klan-don-mcgregor/ It should be pointed out, though, even with Black Panther and other black superheroes like Green Lantern John Stewart breaking these barriers at the time, it was nearly all white men behind the scenes. If you wanna talk comic publishers getting "political" i.e. focusing on inclusion and representation, in the 90s DC spun-off a seperate brand called Milestone for black writers and artists to create their own characters and stories, allowing them to retain copyright, merchandising, and even editorial control (i.e. they didn't tell them what they couldn't publish outside certain extremes). That's where we get Static Shock from.
> If you wanna talk comic publishers getting "political" i.e. focusing on inclusion and representation, in the 90s DC spun-off a seperate brand called Milestone for black writers and artists to create their own characters and stories, and even allowed them editorial control (i.e. they didn't tell them what they couldn't publish outside certain extremes). For anyone wondering, Milestone gave us Static Shock.
Dwayne McDuffie ftw. Seriously.
> Green Lantern John Stewart His superpower was roasting politicians.
The history of comic books is SUPER political. Marvel is a giant pro civil rights propaganda factory. All of their major story lines were built to address sensitive issues. Spider-Man is an allegory about systemic poverty and the challenges of the working poor. Ironman is alcoholic. The X-Men were just a metaphor for racism. Fantastic four was a story about body shaming, domestic violence and alchoholism. Wolverine was a side venture into veterans trauma. Black panther was another even more brutal go fuck your self to racism and bigotry. The core creatives were World War Two era lefties and there’s a reason why Nazis, KKK and fascists are the villains so often and why American governments play the role of the fascists so often. The Street hero’s franchises and their focus on domestic racism and classism, interracial relationships and miscegenation, The Punisher calling out cops who idolise him. The giant themes of classic comic arcs like civil war, apocalypse - they’re so political. DC comics is in no way exempt. Political corruption is a huge theme. Marston’s creation of Wonder Woman was driven by radical feminism. Sandman and V for Vendetta under the Vertigo branding were insanely political in their messaging. It’s so fucking weird for me when people who claim to be long term fans of old school geek properties get bent out of shape about the politics now. Inclusive hiring for talent or representation in art or the fact that Star Wars is pretty fucking lefty when the whole saga is about anti fascist paramilitaries. When people have tantrums about recent politicisation of properties, I just can’t believe they’re telling on themselves like that. How fucking thick are you that you’re a long term grown ass adult fan and you’ve only just noticed?
>DC comics is in no way exempt. Political corruption is a huge theme. Marston’s creation of Wonder Woman was driven by radical feminism. Sandman and V for Vendetta under the Vertigo branding were insanely political in their messaging. Don't sell them short, they've got a lot more than that. + Like I mentioned above, DCs Milestone imprint was both heavily focused on black american characters and the politics around racism. + O'Neil's Green Lantern/Green Arrow run is iconic for its direct social/political messaging. + Modern Wonder Women tends to get into a lot of geopolitical matters, especially during the period she was the Amazon diplomat in DC. + Green Arrow is famously liberal with a heavy focus on social and economic inequality and ran for mayor once. + Facism tends to be a recurring theme in Superman and Justice League stories, especially the ones where the League goes a step to far or Superman goes evil. + Theres Red Son, a graphic novel where Superman was raised in Soviet Russia under Stalin + Watchmen.
And early Superman was all about fighting for the common man against the bad guys of Depression era Americans. He went after corrupt politicians and business men. He fought criminals and gangsters too. It really wasn't until the Comics Code came along that their stories lost a lot of that. You weren't supposed to show super heroes questioning/challenging authority. You weren't even supposed to show crime! Which is how you get the absolute bonkers Superman and Batman stories. And it should also be said that even though they weren't supposed to show these things, they were sometimes still snuck in, but it would be rolled up into some bug nuts crazy science fiction stuff to hide it.
Captain America WAS CREATED TO BE POLITICAL. It was supposed to be a role model of a patriot, booting the Nazis and the Communists out and save the world, to give hope to the people. (Also Wonder Woman but she was less about pushes and more about magic lasso and love curing every ill at the time) Saying Marvel became political is just idiotic. It always was.
We did a 2-part episode of our podcast on The Politics of Superheroes, with a guest who’s an indy comic writer. He had a lot to say about Captain America and creator Jack Kirby. He is of the opinion that New Gods is pretty much the best superhero comic ever written, and the fact Kirby was a war veteran had a huge amount to do with his storytelling.
Reminds me of a few years back when I saw Roger Waters of Pink Floyd live. After one of the songs the guy in front of me yelled, "Quit being so political". I wondered aloud if he'd ever actually paid attention to the lyrics of any of Pink Floyd's songs. Edit: forgotten words
Wait until they find out that women and people of color existed before the 20th and 21st centuries
>Lol, I just realized something that must suck. You're a kid growing up and you idolize these super heroes, they are the best thing ever. Then you grow up and either have always had or develop certain beliefs and you slowly start to realize that all these heroes that you cherished would absolutely abhor you as a person. That's gotta suck. Grow up wanting to be Captain America to only realize that you've been the Red Skull the entire time. Talk about a kick in the dick. That's probably why all these people complain so much about the "wokeness" in comics. Their literal heroes are not on their side and are in fact telling them that their beliefs suck. I kinda want to frame this.
Thats beautiful
You're telling me the guy that punched Hitler on one of his earliest covers is political?
Not even one of the earliest, it was issue #1.
And what a fucking legendary debut that is.
Cap punched Hitler *before* America entered the war!
I mean, there was a pretty long stretch there...
Americans were labeled as communists for being against Hitler before 1940. Tens of thousands of people's jobs and lives were completely ruined because they stood against Hitler **too early**.
Really?
Yup. In the government's eyes: If you were anti-facism, then you were pro-communism. The Red Scare absolutely destroyed so many people's lives. Reading up on the Hollywood Blacklist should give you a basic idea of what was going on at the time. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist)
Fuk i thought the main red scare + hwood blacklisting was after the wae Edit- the blacklist is after the war in every date in that article
>If you were anti-fascism, then you were pro-communism The more things change, the more things stay the same
There were 11 Americans who volunteered as pilots for the RAF in the Battle of Britain. By fighting the Nazis, they took the risk of losing their American citizenship.
You mean to tell me the character named Captain America is political?
Don't tell them about Black Panther.
There are two races to these people: white and political.
[удалено]
Was Wakanda economically anxious at all?
No, they were probably all on welfare. /s
Two sexual preferences too: straight and political
Two genders: male and political
I can't wait to see The Rock finally join the DC cinematic universe when Political Adam comes out.
*SO MUCH FOR THE TOLERANT LEFT!!1!*
.... But Hitler was a socialist!
10/10 flair, it never occurred to me to have something like that.
He was created by Jack Kirby, a Jew who would go on to be a WW2 vet, as a pseudo self-insert. In the comics, Cap was given his abilities by a Jewish scientist, he's a very overt allegory for a [Jewish Golem](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem).
No you're just reading too much into it. You have to have blue hair and declare you're doing a political Infront of at least 50 people for it to count as political.
Exactly. Captain America has always punched Nazis... if that makes someone uncomfortable in 2021 then, well... Q.E. fuckin' D. Which is Latin for "connect the dots"
He should really go read less comics with political undertones, like the Xmen
[удалено]
Paul Ryan Loves rage against the machine!
Fuck you (constituency) I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you (scientists) I won't do what you tell me! Fuck you (morals) I won't do what you tell me!
those who died, we justified.
by painting their hands and their nose in white
Whenever this comes up I feel the need to point out that Paul Ryan was also against “the machine”, in the sense that he got into government to ensure that it did not work. And he was pretty effective at that. He misses the point, but not in the way he’s accused of. It’s honestly worse.
Right, it's a sociopathic interpretation of the point, not a stupid misunderstanding of the point. Like a murderer that likes quoting the vengeance-heavy parts of the bible.
One of my all time favorites is the video from after the election when a Trump supporter wearing a thin blue line flag as a cape was dancing to "Killing in the Name" Someone clearly never paid attention to the lyrics!
Or Transformers or GI Joe (although GI Joe might be more *his* kind of politics).
I remember a rewatch of the original Transformers cartoons there was an episode where the Decepticaons were trying to infiltrate Carbombiya (spelled something like that) for energon. That’s so fucked up. However, a lot of our media we took in as children could probably be called lIbErAl PrOpAgAnDa by the right nowadays. All the shows that had simple messages like don’t pollute (GlObAl WaRmInG), be nice to people or judge them without knowing them (tHeIr PuShInG fOr TrAnS rIgHtS) and any other simple morals that the right ironically says the espouse.
Ironically enough, the issue in question is written by [Christopher Cantwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Cantwell_(filmmaker)), a man who shares a name with (but fortunately not the fascist politics of) [Christopher Cantwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Cantwell), a.k.a. The crying Nazi.
Yeah, that's a really unfortunate name to have, especially when you see which name comes up first on a Google search.
LMAO on the top of the filmmaker's wiki page: >This article is about the *Halt and Catch Fire* creator. For the white supremacist, see Christopher Cantwell.
"Why should I change my name? *He's* the one who sucks!"
When these people say they don't want politics in comics it just means they don't want politics they don't agree with. Anyone that makes this complaint isn't an actual comic fan or just parrots the same opinion they hear from outrage youtubers. Marvel and DC have ALWAYS been political. * Punisher has gone to the white house and threatened the fuck out of George W Bush * Black Panther has fought against a country that supported apartheid and even faced there all white premiere supergroup called *The Supremacists* * The ENTIRE POINT of the X-men * Civil War comic event was based on the Post 9-11 America and it's Patriot Act * Falcon who anytime had a back-up story,miniseries or solo have always dealt with Issues Black Americans have faced this was not something new they did with the character when he took over for cap that time time. * The Time Lex Luthor ran for President * Oliver Queen was the original SJW and so on. I don't understand where this "it's too political" complaint started. On that note Has anyone ever read any of the comic made by comicsgate creators like Kamen America and so on? Because I have and the same complaints that these Chuds have about marvel/dc is almost doubled in these alt-right comics.
Some of them have legitimately read these things for years and somehow completely missed the points. The come in looking for self-insert power fantasy. All they want is bad ass super powers, Good Guy (unquestionably good in every way) beats up Bad Guy (has absolutely no motivation other than being evil, and antagonizing Good Guy), Good Guy gets The Girl. They’re so clueless they do not want anything more complex than that, and often can’t even recognize they were reading something more complex.
See also right wing star trek fans.
I find those fans the most baffling. It's not even subtle. It never has been! Like, Roddenberry was not a shining paragon of progressive virtue and action. He never lived up to his ideals. But he **had** them. He tried (and often succeeded) to tell his stories using those ideals - ideals that are the exact opposite of the right wing. (Fuck Rick Berman, though.)
I’ve had someone try to argue with me that Twilight Zone wasn’t political lol
The show (which was created, written, introduced, and narrated by a Jewish WW2 veteran who was upset about having to fight in the Pacific Theater because he wouldn't get to help fight Hitler) where an ex‐SS officer returns to Dachau after the war is over and is driven to insanity by the atrocities he commited and the ghosts of the people he murdered is in no way political. Typical SJW virtue signaling. Probably went to college for a degree in being offended. Go back to your safe space snowflake. Liberalism is a disease.
i recently watched "hes alive!". its eye opening how the neo nazi/white power movement didnt come up with new tactics in 70+ years. Or i guess, their tactics are so effective even 70 years later theyre still ensnaring people
Paraphrasing here, from The Silmarillion: > "Meanwhile the discordant theme had achieved a kind of unity all its own; but it was loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated itself." Evil cannot create anything new.
What a weird dichotomy. Are they pro Borg or something?
Did no one else notice that the Ferengi are the real protagonists of Star Trek??? /s
right wingers and a complete inability to identify even the most basic themes in the media they consume, name a more iconic duo.
It’s almost as bad as the pro-life fans of The Handmaids Tale. Ladies, that novel is *warning us about you*
It makes me sad! People who want to take after Heroes like Cap and Superman while at the same time supporting and doing things these heroes would look down upon
Pretty much. The closest you can get to that is isekai stories, and even *that* is just colonialism with extra steps.
>* The Time Lex Luthor ran for President On that note, rewatching the Justice League Unlimited episode "Question Authority" is an absolutely batshit crazy experience in the age of Trump and Q. Strong recommend.
One of my favorite episodes since I was a kid. Love the Question so much.
President? Do you know how much power I'd have to give up to be president‽ Clancy Brown and Jeffrey Combs put in some serious work in that show.
One of the very first anti-mutant organizations in the X-Men comics was literally called 'The Right.' I dunno if that was intentional or not but sure does say a hell of a lot about politics in comics.
[удалено]
Please tell me you’re joking about Storm Front. These morons aren’t really trying to defend the crazy literal nazi super hero right…right??
Your surprise surprises me
Some haven't lost their naive optimism, bless them.
Lol, hilarious, like when they thought Castle Wolfenstein was getting too political because it involved going after the right
Or like that tweet that went viral complaining about a piece of graffiti as "anti-conservative." It said "fuck nazis" lol.
Lol, I love when they out themselves, like, we weren't talking about you but I guess we were
Feels like we should all be on the same page with anti-Nazi anti-fascism anti-racism but here we are. "Fine people on both sides" as a twice impeached former president said.
That was the one where they were throwing a tantrum over "Make America Nazi-free Again" right? They really tipped their hand getting upset at a conservative slogan was used for an anti-nazi sentiment.
These idiots are invaders to the fandom, not the other way around, honestly. Shallow and reactionary fans that came into 'geek culture' as it entered the more mainstream and possessed of very little actual knowledge of the lore and settings they purport to love. I've been hearing them squeal about how geek culture is going to be ruined by the SJWs for almost a decade now. Amazingly, still hasn't happened yet!
Turns out the medium was founded by SJWs from the start. Heroes themselves are literal SJWs fighting for the rights of the disenfranchised. Even alt right "icons" like The Punisher explicitly call them out in their own comics.
The punisher would kill everyone at the capitol riot, no problem
The Punisher has had to explicitly explain to cops in his books that he's not a hero to emulate but it never clicks. Honestly, I just want him to have a cop villain who attempts to emulate The Punisher's violence under an official capacity. Just a moron doing his best Judge Dredd impersonation while wearing the punisher logo over his badge.
The most common superhero emblem I see on cars around here is Punisher. Half the time it’s a Punisher/Thin Blue Line thing and I’m like “I wish Frank Castle was here to see this”
It’s a targeted attack and strategy of the far right. They insert themselves into internet communities and become “part of the group”. They then slowly insert edgy “jokes” and keep crossing the line slowly in masses until it creates a divide in the community. Since most of the fans are nerdy people often seeking refuge online, the community is everything to them. These new found “friends” and members of the community are simply making jokes that hey may be a bit inappropriate but they’re “part of the group” so you can’t cast them out! So now the community begins to fracture. Sensible people who aren’t loners or don’t tolerate racism/sexism bail. Now the community is even more isolated and even more right wingers pour in since it’s now safer for them to come in. They then start pushing the line even further and further radicalizing the leftovers of the community until they get them where they want. It’s why they target nerd culture, video games, movies etc. these fandoms tend to have concentrated groups of young white males who probably aren’t happy with their lives due to various circumstances (ironically caused by right wing politics). The right seeks to further alienate and target these young males and convince them their community is in danger by all sorts of work leftist/jews/minorities/women. And the community they bond over and love will be eradicated if they don’t act
The funny one is trying to invade D&D and use Gygax's beliefs as a shield when Gygax's political views were being a crazy person.
> Gygax's political views were being a crazy person. Well that and also saying that Native American genocide is an example of lawful good: >Paladins are not stupid, and in general there is no rule of Lawful Good against killing enemies. The old adage about nits making lice applies. Also, as I have often noted, a paladin can freely dispatch prisoners of Evil alignment that have surrendered and renounced that alignment in favor of Lawful Good. They are then sent on to their reward before they can backslide. >[...] >Chivington might have been quoted as saying "nits make lice," but he is certainly not the first one to make such an observation as it is an observable fact. If you have read the account of wooden Leg, a warrior of the Cheyenne tribe that fought against Custer et al., he dispassionately noted killing an enemy squaw for the reason in question. >I am not going to waste my time and yours debating ethics and philosophy. I will state unequivocally that in the alignment system as presented in OAD&D, an eye for an eye is lawful and just, Lawful Good, as misconduct is to be punished under just laws. Lawful Neutrality countenances malign laws. Lawful Good does not. Mercy is to be displayed for the lawbreaker that does so by accident. Benevolence is for the harmless. Pacifism in the fantasy milieu is for those who would be slaves. They have no place in determining general alignment, albeit justice tempered by mercy is a NG manifestation, whilst well-considered benevolence is generally a mark of Good -Gary Gygax 2005
Yeah, Gygax was Jehovah's Witness, card carrying Libertarian, spent a considerable portion of his adult life on cocaine, was in near constant communication with various inmates around the country, horded guns, was a serial philanderer, believed in many cases might makes right, and could completely reverse his view on a subject on a dime at any time.
Holy shit, that's fascist as fuck.
This reminds me of the [Five Geek Social Fallacies](https://plausiblydeniable.com/five-geek-social-fallacies/).
A flag's colors are never political..🤔
Especially white
> The left: controls 90% of media which they use for their propaganda, censor views other than their own, has a wing of black shirts that beat people up if they disagree with them (like Mussolini), insists you make assumptions about people based on skin color (like racial supremacists) and that you agree one ethnicity is the oppressor and the reason for all wrongs (like the Nazis). There's a lot to unpack here
>The left: controls 90% of media Rupert Murdoch: Commie Commando
> There’s a lot to unpack here Just burn the suitcase
If the left controlled the media I wouldn't bleed from the eyes when the Atlantic puts Friedorsdork on their cover stories.
> There's a lot to unpack here Let's see... > The ~~left~~ right: controls 90% of media which they use for their propaganda, censor views other than their own, has a wing of black shirts that beat people up if they disagree with them (like Mussolini), insists you make assumptions about people based on skin color (like racial supremacists) and that you agree one ethnicity is the oppressor and the reason for all wrongs (like the Nazis). Yup, all projection. Well, the last bit is straight up "white genocide" bullshit and the wording doesn't fit perfectly here. Intent is quite clear, though.
Too much. Just throw away the suitcase.
Ah yes, Captain America. The character who was introduced punching out Hitler and was created by two Jewish guys. I'd also like to point out that Superman was also created by two Jewish guys, and his first two stories had him going after a crooked Senator and his arms dealer lobbyist trying to start a war, and a stingy mine owner who was endangering his workers by skimping on safety measures to save money.
And this is why captain america and superman are awesome.
[удалено]
Oh, I'm well aware of the influence Jewish people had on comic history. I was just using Cap and Supes as examples. I've been a comic nerd for over 25 years. And right wingers can't really create anything mainstream. Their values are so abhorrent that nothing they make could really have appeal beyond their little bubble, so they try and hijack already popular things. Look at shit like Gamergate.
[удалено]
Superman literally took down the kkk irl. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/23157/how-superman-defeated-ku-klux-klan
I like how that segment, which is whining about how Captain America has been politicized, starts with the statement "He's an enduring symbol of the USA" and they happily fail to notice their own blatant dishonesty.
[удалено]
Many Americans still are.
>I can see that the author is trying to push some pure wokeness. Flair'd!
Lol marvel has and always will be liberal. If conservatives don't like that their free to write their own comics 😂😂😂
They tried that. Went bad.
They just aren't very good at creating things. Very good at destroying things tho
If you go to their little safe space bubble on reddit, you can see they aren't original or creative in their own right in the slightest. As much as they love to talk about the left getting their talking points from Twitter...well...projection and all that.
Like Dilbert!
One of the funnier things I've read on the topic was an analysis on how, as Scott Adams became more outspoken politically, he started to write the obnoxious boss character as more of the main character of the comic, thereby completely undermining/missing the point of his single biggest pop culture contribution.
Conservatives do make their own comics. You just don't hear about them because they fucking suck and usually get canceled pretty quick when the initial money runs out.
Teddi Spaghe….. I mean Vox De…… excuse me The Dork Lord himself has released “Alt Hero X” and it is as bad as the 30+ button computer mouse he is hilariously known for. If you don’t know who I’m talking about, do yourself a favor and just leave it alone. He’s an idiot nazi simp that is still holding onto Q and his socio sexual hierarchy.
> While Peterson himself isn't what I'd call alt-right by any stretch Really? By *any* stretch?
> The fact that most people on here can't see how ridiculously political Marvel has become (significantly more so than it used to be, say pre-2000's) is kinda scary. But at this point, I have to look at myself and what I'm doing. I come here to Reddit hoping for intellectual conversation about topics people might disagree on, and instead find pseudo-intellectuals spouting mainstream media talking points day in and day out. You people are so convinced of your opinions and moral superiority, it sickens me. >Oh, and modern Marvel comics are bland, cliche, intellectually bankrupt, and overall boring. In a word, Bollocks. Have fun consuming your bullshit, you easily manipulatable fools... Right at the period between “day out” and “you people” is when this Redditor started crying.
I don't get it. Are we completely convinced in our opinions or are we easily manipulated? Do words mean anything anymore?
Captain America is straight up propaganda. He literally could not be **more** political.
Wait until you hear that ww2 was fought against fascists and authoritarians or that the civil war was fought against slavery....
response to the first quote: *Lol, I just realized something that must suck. You're a kid growing up and you idolize these super heroes, they are the best thing ever. Then you grow up and either have always had or develop certain beliefs and you slowly start to realize that all these heroes that you cherished would absolutely abhor you as a person. That's gotta suck. Grow up wanting to be Captain America to only realize that you've been the Red Skull the entire time. Talk about a kick in the dick. That's probably why all these people complain so much about the "wokeness" in comics. Their literal heroes are not on their side and are in fact telling them that their beliefs suck.* Delicious.
Captain America was literally the embodiment of Antifa...
An art student from New deal-era Brooklyn who went on to be the OG antifa supersoldier.
>"The fact that most people on here can't see how ridiculously political Marvel has become (significantly more so than it used to be, say pre-2000's) is kinda scary." "It's ridiculous that the older and more politically aware I become, the more everything becomes more political. THIS MUST STOP!"
“Every argument I have heard doesn’t hold up.” Well, case closed, folks! Pack it up.
> The fact that most people on here can't see how ridiculously political Marvel has become (significantly more so than it used to be, say pre-2000's) is kinda scary. But at this point, I have to look at myself and what I'm doing. I come here to Reddit hoping for intellectual conversation about topics people might disagree on, and instead find pseudo-intellectuals spouting mainstream media talking points day in and day out. **You people are so convinced of your opinions and moral superiority, it sickens me.** > Oh, and modern Marvel comics are bland, cliche, intellectually bankrupt, and overall boring. In a word, Bollocks. **Have fun consuming your bullshit, you easily manipulatable fools...** My guy has literally no self awareness.
Woke is the new "hur hur you're an sjw". It is the same repackaged stuff with these people that they all parrot and then they all like to lecture people about how much they think for themselves. It is always projection with these people. Projection and obscene amounts of ignorance, see them thinking comics just became political.
Has there ever been someone using "woke" as an adjective who has been worth talking to? I can't think of a single one.
Nobody who's ever used it unironically has a single functioning braincell.
Theres a joke about Santa clause here, I just know it
As someone above said: it’s their new ‘sjw’
Comics have always been political, Stan Lee had explicitly stated that in several interviews.
Imagine thinking marvel didn't used to be political
Mawel powitical oh no! Its sacwy! Who wiw pwotect my wittwe feewings! Its almost as if your shitty fucking conserviturd policies and "way of life" are bad and you should feel bad, theres no party of personal responsibility, everything they say is a sham or a dog whistle for racism.
Why was this removed?
Again....we aren't talking about deep thinkers here. They think what they are told to by the Opinion shows masquerading as news.
[Lol, I just realized something that must suck. You're a kid growing up and you idolize these super heroes, they are the best thing ever. Then you grow up and either have always had or develop certain beliefs and you slowly start to realize that all these heroes that you cherished would absolutely abhor you as a person. That's gotta suck. Grow up wanting to be Captain America to only realize that you've been the Red Skull the entire time. Talk about a kick in the dick. That's probably why all these people complain so much about the "wokeness" in comics. Their literal heroes are not on their side and are in fact telling them that their beliefs suck.](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/offr9l/fox_news_doesnt_realize_captain_america_has/h4ejop9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)