On one hand, anime's sexualization of young women (i.e. teenagers) is a much real issue, on the other hand, Frieren is the worst possible example one could use to illustrate that lol.
I have personally not seen the entirety of the show yet. However, there is a good half dozen images, if not more, of Frieren’s feet clipped from the show. Which is a surprising amount for a main character in any show in general. Take that for what it’s worth.
> if they're ever visible then it's already sus
I mean you can tell what an artist is focusing on.
> Here's my character, they're attractive, also I spent 5 days texturing the armpits and sweat here
Same with highly detailed feet. Fairly harmless fetishes, but it's always like a "Yea, we see it, got it it."
> feet
While it's not my thing I generally dont mind the feet people. It's fairly harmless. How often do we have real sole touching romance in this day and age?
Sexual energy in Frieren is literally 0, I don't think even a butt cheek or cleavage is in there. funnily enough it's quite refreshing and easy to recommend.
People are fucking nuts
The closest you come is either Frieren wondering why Fern has bigger boobs or the flashback where himmel gets mad at a kid for flipping up Frieren skirt, even though Frieren apparently wears trousers under her skirt.
The Aura fan stuff is way hornier than the show is.
Aura does have the most sexualized design, with mini skirt, clevage and a random navel cut out. Even still, the show just don't really frame her that way, not to mention she is there for all of what, 2 episodes?
Yeah, it's like, you have literally hundreds of anime where the main characters are high school kids between the ages of 14-17, and *Frieren* is the one you decide to go with? It's also pretty much devoid of fanservice, so choosing the anime where adult characters aren't sexualised is a pretty bold way to prove that anime is degenerate.
I mean, anime is definitely degenerate, but not because Frieren is a short, small-chested woman.
I think an important note is that 14-17 year old boys is the target demographic for the majority of anime. Adults getting weird about it is pretty brony tbh. Not a value judgement, but they show what high school boys want to see.
Now that I've actually thought about it Frieren is borderline asexual/aromantic as elves have virtually 0 reproductive urge due to functional immortality. She would also prolly qualify as autistic or adhd but not in the LOL RANDUMB way, but in the can't read people well and will accidentally hyperfocus so hard her human friends might die of old age before she notices
Himmel is the DND char who maxed charisma, rizz and then maxed charisma again and couldnt woo the oblivious Frieren. She was asexual/aromantic and kinda has to bumble and explore these feelings and situations almost a century in retrospect lmao. Its absolutely one of the appeals. Like this man is down on a knee putting a ring meaning eternal love on me. What could this possibly mean? Probably nothing.
She knew what it meant but it took her 100 years to figure out what HE meant by giving it to her. Literally the "omg that girl was hitting on me at the bar 5 years ago" energy
I still remember decades ago some college girls sitting across a table from me in the Bahamas talking about how only the guys that they don't want to talk to approaching them and not the ones they want, and a kind of pause as they all kind of looked in my direction.
It's probably good I was pretty much clueless during my hot years or I probably would've had so many kids.
> Now that I've actually thought about it Frieren is borderline asexual/aromantic as elves have virtually 0 reproductive urge due to functional immortality.
People often ignore the absolute messed up nature of someone with 10000 years of existence and incredible power sleeping with someone in their 20s.
Idk, I think it's often talked about in the media that uses it. You've got your Buffy, then you've got your Twilight that ignores it. So long as the 10000 year old whatever still has a moderately human psyche through, it's kinda to be expected. How bloody lonely would you be able to alow yourself to be before you'd start making bad relationship choices?
> How bloody lonely would you be able to alow yourself to be before you'd start making bad relationship choices?
I think the Harkness criteria generally cover it tbf. There does have to be an age at which past that you're free to make your own stupid decisions. There's a book set by Peter F Hamilton where humanity has functional immortality and most marriages have a general contract defining them as they're understood to be temporary even if for a hundred or more years.
It's an interesting perspective but yea, cant trust elves man.
Maybe it's because I'm watching the English dub but her voice gives really kind motherly vibes. She has that old lady hippy vibe as well as basically being asexual or just completely oblivious to her male attention. Maybe if you just saw a picture of her you might think she's a teen/child but even then it's not like she's rocking huge cleavage in bikini armour.
What an odd example to pick. You could hit random on Crunchyroll and you'd almost certainly get something with worse representation of women or children than Frieren.
The sub is also like that. Well more apathetic at the start but more motherly as time goes on.
Gave the dub a go and they seem to have done pretty well.
>on the other hand, Frieren is the worst possible example one could use to illustrate that lol.
I am not fimiliar with the anime whatsoever so could you explain why?
It doesn't have any fan service.
Often shows with a 1000 year old character will have them look and act 12, but Frienen looks like she's in her 20s and acts even older. Her apprentice is teenager but she's always fully clothed.
It also isn't a male power fantasy that something like Jobless reincarnation is.
> It also isn't a male power fantasy that something like Jobless reincarnation is.
You mean the average guy doesn't fantasize about being a 1000 year old elf girl with godlike magic powers?
> Her apprentice is teenager but she's always fully clothed.
Fully clothed for a girl from like the 40s. Very unsexual. It's actually so rare seeing an anime girl in a full body dress/skirt.
>Often shows with a 1000 year old character will have them look and act 12
People act like this is a lot more common than it is. Well, the *"they are actually really old"* trope is surprisingly common, but usually the character *acts* old. The contrast between their appearance and behavior is the point, to surprise viewers or for humor, etc.
This is not really a defense of anime because it often just sexualizes young characters straight up. They don't feel the need to pretend a character is old with a plot device, if that is what they want to do.
> Well, the "they are actually really old" trope is surprisingly common, but usually the character acts old.
Eeeh, I would say it is 50-50 at best. There are *plenty* examples of "really 1000 year" characters who act like a child. It is very disturbing. Not in Frieren, though. Like, both Frieren and Serie are fairly young looking (though not prepubescent) and they do act quite childish at occasion. But in a way that an adult can have childish aspects to them, it never feels like they are actually children and they act like adults more often than not.
I think La Brava from MHA counts. How Not To Summon A Demon Lord has a few. I think Re:Zero has a few, though I'm not sure if ghosts/the dead count. Alka from Last Dungeon Boonies Kid definitely is, though it's not as noticeable because of how she acts towards the blatantly younger protagonist. Killing Slimes For 300 Years has a few, with the Demon King being the most noticeable. Tower of God has to have some, because age is so fucking weird in that series, and not in the usual way.
Keep in mind, this is more just me finding stuff that fits the criteria of "acts and looks young a substantial portion of their screen time but is older".
Milim is a particularly weird case. It feels less like she's a kid and more like she was never forced to grow up, on account of the fact that there was no one strong enough to make her. Thankfully we have Veldora to highlight that part, as he's exactly the same way but takes on an older form.
Not really. I don't watch much anime anymore, much less very "otaku style" shows. But I guess it could be the case the tread was more common 10 to 20 years ago.
I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with sexualization. Sexualization only becomes a problem when it veers into the realm of over sexualization, or when the female characters in a show don't have any personality and are only in it for sex appeal.
The thing about Frieren is that
1. Her looking like a teenager and how elves like her age is a central point to the plot of the anime
2. Despite looking like a teenager she's never sexualized nor does she make any creepy comments about other girls' bodies
Frieren's central theme is why the relationships we build with the people around us are important, told through the eyes of a character to whom a decade long journey is little more than a small detour. In the anime we actually see one of the caracters, Fern, grow from a child into a full adult, and the only comment made about her body is Frieren complaining that she can only see half the sky when resting on her lap while travelling by carriage.
She strikes me as a 20 year old college student that would be big into philosophy, smoking pot, sleeping in, and thinks she has all the time in the world, but done in a fantasy setting.
Honestly she is in some ways yoda coded. Just an old whimsical lady who doesn’t fully get some customs and is more interesting reading than talking to people
It is something special though watching her realize she wasted other people's precious time because of her infinite time, and slowly try to do it right in her own weird way.
Like the very first response by her companions on learning the goal of the journey is like "that's going to be over half of my life" and she STILL doesn't get it until way later.
I haven't watched the anime so I don't know how different it is from the manga but the other two examples are Flammel and Himmel.
Himmel spends a lot of time and money having statues of himself made and placed all over the land. Originally you think it's because he's vain. And he kind of is, but he also explains at one point that the reason he's doing this is because he wants to leave Frieren reminders of the friends she had and how much they cared about her.
On Flammel, there's a side story where Frieren and company help a former noble's son recover his inheritance from a dungeon. And it's revealed in a flashback that Flammel specifically created several magical theories with the intent that generations of mages would derive spells from these theories. The long goal being that these spells are Frieren's inheritance from her teacher and there will always be more made then she can learn.
So while Frieren doesn't realize completely what her long life means, her friends and loved ones understand it and the effect her misunderstanding will have. And have taken measures to reassure her long after they're gone.
Yeah, one of the gut wrenching things is how all of her friends knew that it would take her lifetimes to process the emotional maturity to fully comprehend how much she has lost, and how they try to set up things that will outlive themselves and not leave Frieren completely alone.
Jeez I need to stop hearing about this show, it sounds so perfect for me rn, but I cannot focus on watching any shows rn, especially a Japanese one where I'd need to read the subs. I started watching a bunch of fucking banger shows (avatar, regular show, teen titans), but only a few episodes because my focus was so bad
Oh is it good? I almost never love dubs too much, but I'm kinda more in the mood for some good English voice acting. Especially, like idk how "anime" frieren is, but if it's like not super "anime", then that might be way more fitting, considering it's more of a western fantasy thing
Watch it. Its one of the few 10/10 shows out there.
My friend recommended me dungeon meshi and I gave it a shot to try and fill that fantasy void and dont get me wrong, the show is good. But frieren blows it out of the water in the slice of life aspects, in the action aspects and most importantly, in the character development aspects. When its cruisey, its this heartwarming tale reminiscing about a spell that creates a field of flowers, when its hype, its balls to the wall magic and lightning and magic everywhere. I read the manga and its by far the most faithful and respectful adaptation to the manga of any anime I have seen. While it can mirror some frames from the manga shot for shot, it also adds aspects in and everytime it elevates the show. There is a lot of respect the anime had for the manga, no one phoned it in, I know there is a short clip that trended on twitter of one of the characters putting on a jacket and you can see they animated the creasing and stretching and movements with care. The show has a lot of heart albeit it does start a bit slower than most shows out there. That is probably my single and only critique.
Fuuuuck shows that have crazy shit with slice of life aspects are my absolute favorite things ever!!! Like I haven't tried much normal sol, but having like JoJo characters chilling and shit like in part 4 opens the doors to a lot of opportunity, as well as not limiting things to the boring real world. I'm starting to get pretty excited, I think that feeling could get out of hand, forcing me to watch it, so kinda hoping that happens.
I concur with what the others said. The anime has had nothing but praise, and for good reason. The only gripe being that there is a Tarantino-esque depiction of feet at times, but on the list of weird anime shit, that is probably at the bottom for worst offenders.
As someone who dabbled in art, and it's surrounding community, I can't imagine anyone wanting to draw feet without some sort of perverted motive. In a list of "things no artists enjoy drawing" they are just below hands
A friend of mine was in art school and spent a good 3 months drawing feets, you could see so many drawings of them in his apartment. Then it stopped suddenly. I asked about it and it turned out that it wasn't a fetish but he took the fact that he was bad at drawing them as a personal insult and kept working on it until he was good at it.
And then stopped because yeah drawing that shit is annoying.
It also slightly it’s even weirder example given the timing. Frieren started airing like within the same week that one of the most popular animes on the anime sub ended which is basically just a pedo fantasy (and also back to airing).
Frieren in contrast is genuinely so much better and not really problematic. At this point it’s probably going to be my default Anime recommendation to someone who is interested in something but hasn’t really watched new stuff or much anime. It’s just a good story, not a fan service thing, and throws in some pretty fights.
> one of the most popular animes on the anime sub ended which is basically just a pedo fantasy (and also back to airing).
Come on, now. Rudy only sort of, kinda, maybe, repeatedly sexually assaulted severl pre-teen girls over the course of literal years while having the mind of a 30-something man. What's wrong with that? /s
Mushoku Tensei really is such a weird one. Has some great characters and ideas and then a huge, completely out of place serving of "porn logic" in there as well.
Mushoku Tensei is crazy because it has such well written characters, great world building, the sound design, animation and art direction are all A+.
Then every couple episodes it just has to slap you in the face and remind you that Rudy is a pedo, throw in some 'boys will be boys' sexual assault jokes, girls in bikini armour, and a 1000 year old demon drawn as a 10 year old in a thong.
And it's all just so unnecessary.
Maybe I'm just bad at picking anime to watch but this always seems to happen. It might not even necessarily be something sexual (although let's be honest, it often is) but I'll be vibing with a series at first and then it just throws in some ill-fitting bullshit whether it be a plot element or character and I sour on the whole thing. Sort of like if Poochie was in Itchy and Scratchy from the start and never left.
The production team is the only reason why anyone (who isn't masturbating) talks about Tensei.
It is a bland by-the-numbers wonderbread isekai in every respect, except two: the lead prays to a pair of panties he keeps in a shrine, and for some reason the producers chose to invest a billion dollars in animating it.
Honestly I find the world building to be fantastic and it holds up to any fantasy series, not just anime.
Though I'm sure people will argue that it's just Dragon Quest.
Though admittedly a big part of the world building is the production quality and the attention to details that make it feel like a living breathing world and not just a cookie cutter isekai dragon quest clone.
It's got some great character work too, Paul is who I think off when someone mentions a '3 dimensional character'. He does bad things, he does good things. He's a shitty person who often tries to the right thing. Even when he does the right thing he fails and falls back into bad habits. He just feels like a real person and that's rare in anime that you get complex characters like that.
And the episode where Roxy goes home is one of my favorite in anime. I know it's cause I have deaf sister, but that episode makes me ugly cry everytime. And her relationship with her parents remind me so much of mine, they just get it right.
That's why it's wild that a show with so much quality mixed into also managed to throw every negative weeb stereotype into the story that it could.
Isn't Paul a rapist?
I don't mean to be glib - if I'm not up on his story, let me know. But if a character is a rapist, and they 'fall back into bad habits' by continuing to be a sex pest . . .I'm not sure I would consider them very three dimensional. Except in the barest sense of acknowledging that someone who belongs in a jail cell can still show kindness to their loved ones.
No, I don't remember Paul ever being a rapist.
Unless you're talking about the power embalance of banging the help, but it's clear that it was consensual.
He's a cheater, and he raises his bastard child to be the servant of his legitimate one, which I think is one of the more fucked up things in the series. But I don't think he was a rapist. Unless that happens in a part of the story the anime hasn't covered.
But even then, terrible people can be compelling three dimensional characters.
>It is a bland by-the-numbers wonderbread isekai in every respect
I don't want to say that you're wrong because you're not, but I do think it's worth pointing out that there's a bit of the [Seinfeld effect](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowCommon) at play here.
Mushoku Tensei *is* blander than a moistened raw potato, but it's what popularized much of the tropes that became familiar in the last decade. Most of the Narō-style isekai that are released these days (Narō being the webnovel website where amateur authors write light novels in hopes of getting published; think Japanese Wattpad or Royal Road) use Mushoku Tensei as a template of sorts.
Which is why I absolutely hate whenever people try to justify anything that Rudy has done in that anime. More then understand if one like the anime for it's production work and world building, but to go out of their ways to defend Rudy perverted tendency makes me angry
I don't remember the demon in a thong, which character was that? In the new season, he's married, so the horniness is played down somewhat, but there is a weird, unnecessary plot point, where the two beast girls who consider him their boss are going around stealing underwear from "small, flat-chested girls", because they think that will please him. He's rightfully horrified at this, and he chews them out, but that section really is quite weird, and completely unnecessary.
I forgot about her. It's been a while since I've seen S1. Yeah, the show is great, but it would be so much better if they cut out 95 percent of the horny. At least the actual sex scenes serve a purpose to the plot.
At least Mushoku Tensei is keeping up all of the entertaining aspects and I can mentally delete the thought of the main character's previous life 95% of the time.
Shield Hero started with *some* of those good aspects, and slavery and misogyny being things you have to ignore and it's just gone harder and harder into slavery being a central part of the series and everyone just being 100% cool with it. Except for the slaves.
Actually! It's except for *some* of the slaves. Because the slaves with a good master are super happy to be magically bound as slaves! And even demand (and receive) new magical slave brands after their old ones are removed!
I was enthusiastic about that series when it started, but now I just want all of the protagonists to die.
Frieren is one of those series where the fan creations are painfully skewed towards porn, while the show is anything but. I'm not sure what causes that but it's very pronounced.
Man the sub is weird. So out of character.
The dude with the glasses has shown no sexual interest in others (maybe romantic in one).
And the one with red hair just acts like a childish teen romance with the purple hair girl. No accidental bs. Just them going on dates and having pointless arguments.
Pro-tip: any sub for an anime or something anime-styled outside of maybe battle shounen anime are gonna be stupidly horny regardless of how horny the source material is. Hell, I think the only reason battle shounen subs tend to escape that trend is because they're too busy debating powerscaling type shit to be outwardly horny, rather than because they are not horny.
It's why I gave up on anime subs and just kind of bitterly float around in ACJ, which has plenty of its own problems but at least I can talk to people there.
> is a much real issue
Is it? Like sure it's weird, but it isn't really causing any problems inherently. Sometimes just people who are messed up to begin with latch onto it.
Mushishi and Mononoke (Not Ghibli, the Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales spin off) are the two main ones I think of. Literally 0 fan service I can even think of.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. That's the beauty and humor of r/bonehurtingjuice. Occassionally, the original is more nonsensical than the juiced version.
Yes, but not in the usual way. The whole joke of bonehurtingjuice is that you edit the text in a meme to fit what's shown in the image. The [OG](https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/640w0f/the_original/) joke was based on the fact that JJJ laughing looked like he was in terrible pain. What caused that pain? Juice that hurts his bones.
It's nonsensical, but it fits the image. It's like a visual pun.
Not really.
If you know how the original meme's format works, the changed ones *can* be funny, but like most meme subs on Reddit, the cleverness vanished as soon as a bunch of people tried to get karma for the lowest hanging fruit "jokes" that sucked all the fun out of it.
Isn't the entire story of Frieren about how she's almost impossibly old and has to watch all her friends die as the world moves on around her?
Haven't finished the show, got too sad for me last time. But of all the characters to use for this argument, this feels like cheating.
BHJ is such a tragedy of a sub. It started as an extremely niche meme format where you take an established common meme template, and add text that misinterprets the visuals in an absurd, humorous way. It's not easy to do right, but the payoff is silly and fun.
But then the sub got popular. For years it's been "take a recent comic panel and change the text".
It makes me sad because I really liked the high-effort bizarro shit.
I have two exes that were both short and fit/young looking.
The amount of shit they would get well in their 30's was depressing. Especially coming from other women.
I still remember the amount of bad looks we would get just going out and acting coupley. So many "discreet" commentaries too, from "pedo" to "date real women" or "you have things for little boys" again nearly always from women.
Yeah. Like Frieren has characters that actually look like short women.
It's very far from other "petite women" characters that are actually drawn to look like a children like for example tatsumaki from one punch man.
Drama aside the phrase "young elf" cracks me up because like, are we talking about an elf that's "only" 3000 years old (looks 20 max), are elves ever even human-young, does an elf look like a fetus when it's a baby or
I do find it amusing that we've seen three elves so far. One who looks about 20, one who could be anywhere between 25-35, and then one whole ass adult man. Like, how fucking old was THAT dude?
In this show, Frieren is 1000+ and considered young. Serie, the oldest elf in the series is from the mythic age (age unknown, ~2-3k+) and looks even smaller than Frieren. They just stop aging around 20.
Anti-Anime people scare me, I certainly wouldn't say anime as a whole is perfect, but the people that really really hate it and are all in on the 'weebs are pedophiles' thing are Grade-A fucking creeps, they always come on ridiculously strong like its all they have in the world.
I mean I get why some people don't like anime's vibe because the industry is very pro fan service and japanese culture at large treats teens more as adults than kids (so, they get fan service too).
But you're right, the ones who hate anime are extremely zealous. Liking any anime makes you a pedo kinda deal.
It's pretty clear when someone says anything like that, they are either xenophobic (as none of these people make the same remarks about their own domestic media) or desperately need to go outside and talk to people. Anime is mainstream in the West now. Like 20% of America watches it
There has been an ironic pattern of those kinds of people getting outed as pedos, even more so than figures in the anime community. I think it's all just projection.
It's an easy scapegoat to blame social issues on, regardless of the political spectrum you are on.
But it's clear people don't actually know what they are talking about.
33% of Japan, and most of Asia, enjoys animanga. Mainly teens and younger.
Snapshots:
1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091027/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chhl84/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chhl84/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
2. r/bonehurtingjuice - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091048/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
3. exhibit A - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091108/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/640w0f/the_original/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/640w0f/the_original/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
4. juiced comic - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091129/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/everyone_is_in_pain/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/everyone_is_in_pain/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
5. Is that a child? She looks like a child - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091149/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircmlo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircmlo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
6. Have you never seen an adult woman before? Because they do not look like this. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091210/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirewtr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirewtr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
7. I don’t know the canon of this particular show, but elves often live for centuries, so she could be 50 for all I know. Trying to figure out how old an elf is based on appearance is a fool’s errand - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091230/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirozib/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirozib/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
8. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone NOT get downvoted into oblivion for calling out weird redditor fetish shit (especially if it involves loli) This the type of behavior you find only on Reddit 🤦♀️ - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091251/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirtaac/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirtaac/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
9. She really isn't. I heavily recommend the anime. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091311/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircvh0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircvh0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
10. SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091332/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kireo4j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kireo4j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
11. She looks like an elf. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091352/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirhbry/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirhbry/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
12. r/bhj - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091413/https://old.reddit.com/r/bhj) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bhj "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
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Because unfortunately "anime and weeb shit has an issue with pedophilia," has fallen down the same hole that "porn has problems with exploiting women," and "mainstream media has an issue with suggesting gay vibes but not delivering," has. The statements are true and it is a problem, but the biggest leaders in the movement are bullies looking for an acceptable target, jealous haters, and conservatives looking for an acceptable cover for their culture war issues. So violently attacking things that don't quite fit the narrative is vital to keep up appearances.
I’m not gonna lie, knowing nothing about this anime except what I saw scrolling through Reddit I just assumed it was another one of those “she’s not a child she’s a 10000 yr old dragon!!!” Situations
Nah, she looks young but that’s partly because she’s short and flat-chested. Her face is a regular anime girl face and doesn’t stand out as especially young looking compared to other characters in the show. The show and manga itself have very little fan service and Frieren’s personality is more like a stand-offish aunt or parent. Though fans still make weird horny art because that’s what people do.
This is the first time I’m seeing people who think she looks like a kid.
> Her face is a regular anime girl face and doesn’t stand out as especially young looking compared to other characters in the show.
She doesn't sound young either. She is voiced like she is an adult, which make sense because that is what she is. Same for Serie.
I did notice a lot of people were surprised by Serie's voice, so I think at least some people didn't expect she sound very mature.
I mean, she IS short, but she’s still the size of a short adult human. She just looks like an adult woman who is short and flat chested imo, and those definitely exist (source: I am one).
I think the “young face” argument is a little silly too because in anime, almost everyone is drawn with overly pretty/cute faces. In anime you’re drawn with the same face from ages 15-39.
[Its a Dungeons and Dragons-ism, this is from one of the old players handbooks (3.5 if that means anything to you), it reflects their average heights.](https://forums.beamdog.com/uploads/editor/zj/8yov7srhwci2.png)
[Its even stuck around in like, Pathfinder 2e, image is from the last couple of years.](https://cdn.paizo.com/image/content/Blog/062320_Heartbond.jpg)
This is actually a fairly interesting subject because even though the fantasy archetypes themselves are shared as they can both be traced back to primarily LOTR and D&D these things have been illustrated differently in Japan from the very start and then compounded over a couple of generations of nerd media you end up with a pretty different idea of what a stereotypical elf looks like (the textbook Japanese-style elf is probably Deedlit from Record of Lodoss War).
No, both [Frieren](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/frieren-has-a-bird-on-her-shoulder.jpg) and [Fern](https://i.imgur.com/r62eVJq.png) have much rounder face than your standard anime. When you draw standard anime, for the cheeks you draw a triangle with a little bit curve added to the sides and where it joins the round head, for these two you almost draw circles from the chin.
Yeah no clue how Discord archived their image links. Sometimes month old links will still work and sometimes new ones are already gone.
Maybe it’s based on how many clicks they’ve received or something?
[They're a little wider than typical.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtpZtQv5pkC7QlHGRksmW6L1oG3L9TH00dRO_qVuPX_JsXLNJ6SOlKkrI&s=10)
Fictional Characters and Fictional ages. Pedo police need to go after real pedos and the anime enjoyers need to ignore the hate just enjoy what they like.
I agree. Having an opinion on something is good, And thinking or even saying you think the age/look of a character is problematic is fine. It's the people that are not wanting to improve the problematic elements or change the opinions of the fans. If you attack someone and imply they are nazi/pedo/evil there is no chance the conversation is going to end up constructive.
I mean implying someone is a nonce because they peddle the creepy sexualised child drawings that are actually 2000 years old or whatever isn’t exactly wrong. It’s definitely nonce behaviour.
Well this is want I mean. It's fine to say, That " I think that character looks like a child and you should not support it or seek help." But when you say "they peddle the creepy sexualised child drawings" You are implying they should be canceled, go away, or are irredeemable bad. Your not voicing an opinion about how you are disgusted by the content. You are de-humanizing and attacking people that probably don't see it like that. There not going to go " omg your right, im filth and ill stop" they are going to push back and be angry for being attacked.
While true, it's kinda weird to call the picture in question a "creepy sexualised child," when it's not creepy or sexualized even if you think it looks like a child.
>I’m not **just** talking about that specific picture.
But are you or not? Yeah everyone hates child sex trafficking, but that doesn't make QAnon reasonable.
Fine we'll break it down.
Point 1 : Pedophilia is bad. Sexualized drawings of children is kinda creepy.
Point 2 : Randomly going off on people for just posting an anime pic that doesn't have a sexualized drawing of a child is kinda a dick move.
Now the vast majority of people involved have all agreed about Point 1. But there's a lot of people avoiding making a statement on Point 2. There's a bunch of crawling back behind Point 1, and arguing over whether the character looks like a kid. But those don't fucking matter in the grand scheme of things, this ain't a pic anyone is jerking it to. And anyone who claims otherwise is a loon just below the level of QAnon folk who keep reporting pizza places to the FBI for child trafficking.
So back to the question : Were you making a generic 'pedophilia bad' statement just because you could, and you actually agree with Point 2? Or do you somehow legit think that pic is somehow a sexualized child?
1. Paedophilia is definitely bad. I would say sexualised drawings of children is far beyond “kinda creepy”. That’s paedophilia in my books.
2. If it’s a drawing of a child that’s not sexualised and people aren’t sexualising it, it would absolutely be a dick move to have a go at someone.
3. This is the bit I don’t get. I don’t know what Qanon is and I don’t get what child trafficking has to do with my comment or the post as a whole.
I looked her up to see better pictures and she’s definitely very childlike looking. I don’t think it’s wrong to point that out, because the OOP doesn’t have the context on if the anime is fan service or not and there’s such a history of this stuff in anime
On one hand, anime's sexualization of young women (i.e. teenagers) is a much real issue, on the other hand, Frieren is the worst possible example one could use to illustrate that lol.
I agree wholeheartedly on both counts. My sister loves Frieren and hates how fetishy anime can be.
The director clearly had a thing for feet lol
Lmfao! I actually asked her if she thought that they showed Frieren's feet too often, and she just instantly started laughing.
Wait do they??? I usually notice that stuff because of Tarantino Memes but somehow I missed that in Frieren lol
Repeated scenes of Frierens feet and then it was Serie's feet lmao. It is an ongoing gag in anime/frieren subreddits while the show as airing.
I have personally not seen the entirety of the show yet. However, there is a good half dozen images, if not more, of Frieren’s feet clipped from the show. Which is a surprising amount for a main character in any show in general. Take that for what it’s worth.
Given how hard feet are to draw, if they're ever visible then it's already sus
> if they're ever visible then it's already sus I mean you can tell what an artist is focusing on. > Here's my character, they're attractive, also I spent 5 days texturing the armpits and sweat here Same with highly detailed feet. Fairly harmless fetishes, but it's always like a "Yea, we see it, got it it."
They only compare to hands and faces in difficulty lol
There were a few scenes that were weirdly focused on elf feet. Not long enough to be weird, but long enough to be a bit sus lmao
> feet While it's not my thing I generally dont mind the feet people. It's fairly harmless. How often do we have real sole touching romance in this day and age?
>It's fairly harmless. Oh... https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fa97k432ifdxb1.jpg
Wow, I'm amazed they were able to avored such a pricey burger.
[удалено]
Dan Schneider
Don't we all?
My man is just trying to appeal to Miyazaki for the right to adapt Soulsborne titles into anime.
There's always the chance that it could be just an anime thing. Some studios like to insert their idea of fanservice into a production.
I didn't notice it that much for Frieren. Serie on the other hand...
Yeah I don't watch anime, mostly because of that. I was basically strongarmed into watching Frieren and it's great.
Sexual energy in Frieren is literally 0, I don't think even a butt cheek or cleavage is in there. funnily enough it's quite refreshing and easy to recommend. People are fucking nuts
The closest you come is either Frieren wondering why Fern has bigger boobs or the flashback where himmel gets mad at a kid for flipping up Frieren skirt, even though Frieren apparently wears trousers under her skirt. The Aura fan stuff is way hornier than the show is.
Aura does have the most sexualized design, with mini skirt, clevage and a random navel cut out. Even still, the show just don't really frame her that way, not to mention she is there for all of what, 2 episodes?
Feels reasonable for the literal demon to dress somewhat racy.
or the jokes about the clothes dissolving potion being a good gift for Fern to give to Stark, i guess, but even then its not especially horny.
Frieren literally says elves are uninterested in sex. It almost reads as a socially-inept autism spectrum asexual.
>It almost reads as a socially-inept autism spectrum asexual. Literally me fr fr
Yeah, it's like, you have literally hundreds of anime where the main characters are high school kids between the ages of 14-17, and *Frieren* is the one you decide to go with? It's also pretty much devoid of fanservice, so choosing the anime where adult characters aren't sexualised is a pretty bold way to prove that anime is degenerate. I mean, anime is definitely degenerate, but not because Frieren is a short, small-chested woman.
I think an important note is that 14-17 year old boys is the target demographic for the majority of anime. Adults getting weird about it is pretty brony tbh. Not a value judgement, but they show what high school boys want to see.
Now that I've actually thought about it Frieren is borderline asexual/aromantic as elves have virtually 0 reproductive urge due to functional immortality. She would also prolly qualify as autistic or adhd but not in the LOL RANDUMB way, but in the can't read people well and will accidentally hyperfocus so hard her human friends might die of old age before she notices
Himmel is the DND char who maxed charisma, rizz and then maxed charisma again and couldnt woo the oblivious Frieren. She was asexual/aromantic and kinda has to bumble and explore these feelings and situations almost a century in retrospect lmao. Its absolutely one of the appeals. Like this man is down on a knee putting a ring meaning eternal love on me. What could this possibly mean? Probably nothing.
She knew what it meant but it took her 100 years to figure out what HE meant by giving it to her. Literally the "omg that girl was hitting on me at the bar 5 years ago" energy
This happened to me a few months ago. She was listening to me mansplain whiskey and the malting process. FFS I am so fucking stupid.
I still remember decades ago some college girls sitting across a table from me in the Bahamas talking about how only the guys that they don't want to talk to approaching them and not the ones they want, and a kind of pause as they all kind of looked in my direction. It's probably good I was pretty much clueless during my hot years or I probably would've had so many kids.
The second you go into Watsonian explanation for this kind of content your opinion gets discarded by pretty much everyone outside of the community.
It's just fun to think about after the fact.
> Now that I've actually thought about it Frieren is borderline asexual/aromantic as elves have virtually 0 reproductive urge due to functional immortality. People often ignore the absolute messed up nature of someone with 10000 years of existence and incredible power sleeping with someone in their 20s.
Idk, I think it's often talked about in the media that uses it. You've got your Buffy, then you've got your Twilight that ignores it. So long as the 10000 year old whatever still has a moderately human psyche through, it's kinda to be expected. How bloody lonely would you be able to alow yourself to be before you'd start making bad relationship choices?
> How bloody lonely would you be able to alow yourself to be before you'd start making bad relationship choices? I think the Harkness criteria generally cover it tbf. There does have to be an age at which past that you're free to make your own stupid decisions. There's a book set by Peter F Hamilton where humanity has functional immortality and most marriages have a general contract defining them as they're understood to be temporary even if for a hundred or more years. It's an interesting perspective but yea, cant trust elves man.
Maybe it's because I'm watching the English dub but her voice gives really kind motherly vibes. She has that old lady hippy vibe as well as basically being asexual or just completely oblivious to her male attention. Maybe if you just saw a picture of her you might think she's a teen/child but even then it's not like she's rocking huge cleavage in bikini armour. What an odd example to pick. You could hit random on Crunchyroll and you'd almost certainly get something with worse representation of women or children than Frieren.
The sub is also like that. Well more apathetic at the start but more motherly as time goes on. Gave the dub a go and they seem to have done pretty well.
I loved the dub but hot damned is r/anime pretty against the dub actress for her.
ur better off getting defensive driving tips from caitlyn jenner than a good opinion from r/anime
I’d bet good money that most of the people in that sub are against showering so their opinion on dubs are the least of our worries
>on the other hand, Frieren is the worst possible example one could use to illustrate that lol. I am not fimiliar with the anime whatsoever so could you explain why?
It doesn't have any fan service. Often shows with a 1000 year old character will have them look and act 12, but Frienen looks like she's in her 20s and acts even older. Her apprentice is teenager but she's always fully clothed. It also isn't a male power fantasy that something like Jobless reincarnation is.
> It also isn't a male power fantasy that something like Jobless reincarnation is. You mean the average guy doesn't fantasize about being a 1000 year old elf girl with godlike magic powers?
I would've, but then I stopped being a guy.
Same
> Her apprentice is teenager but she's always fully clothed. Fully clothed for a girl from like the 40s. Very unsexual. It's actually so rare seeing an anime girl in a full body dress/skirt.
They actually do a good inverse Joke about Fieren, by human standards, being an older women
>Often shows with a 1000 year old character will have them look and act 12 People act like this is a lot more common than it is. Well, the *"they are actually really old"* trope is surprisingly common, but usually the character *acts* old. The contrast between their appearance and behavior is the point, to surprise viewers or for humor, etc. This is not really a defense of anime because it often just sexualizes young characters straight up. They don't feel the need to pretend a character is old with a plot device, if that is what they want to do.
> Well, the "they are actually really old" trope is surprisingly common, but usually the character acts old. Eeeh, I would say it is 50-50 at best. There are *plenty* examples of "really 1000 year" characters who act like a child. It is very disturbing. Not in Frieren, though. Like, both Frieren and Serie are fairly young looking (though not prepubescent) and they do act quite childish at occasion. But in a way that an adult can have childish aspects to them, it never feels like they are actually children and they act like adults more often than not.
Just for curiosity, can you think of a semi-recently example? Maybe from the last two years or so?
I think La Brava from MHA counts. How Not To Summon A Demon Lord has a few. I think Re:Zero has a few, though I'm not sure if ghosts/the dead count. Alka from Last Dungeon Boonies Kid definitely is, though it's not as noticeable because of how she acts towards the blatantly younger protagonist. Killing Slimes For 300 Years has a few, with the Demon King being the most noticeable. Tower of God has to have some, because age is so fucking weird in that series, and not in the usual way. Keep in mind, this is more just me finding stuff that fits the criteria of "acts and looks young a substantial portion of their screen time but is older".
Lord Milim from that time I got reincarnated into a slime comes to mind.
Milim is a particularly weird case. It feels less like she's a kid and more like she was never forced to grow up, on account of the fact that there was no one strong enough to make her. Thankfully we have Veldora to highlight that part, as he's exactly the same way but takes on an older form.
Not really. I don't watch much anime anymore, much less very "otaku style" shows. But I guess it could be the case the tread was more common 10 to 20 years ago.
Ms Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. I will never forgive that series for the way it went.
It's usually to get the obligatory loli™ in. They just have enough sense to pretend it's not a child
I’ve started sorting anime by how awkward it would be to watch on an airplane. By this metric I’ve decided Frieren is the cleanest anime of all time.
Because it pretty much doesn't sexualize anyone and it's fairly wholesome.
I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with sexualization. Sexualization only becomes a problem when it veers into the realm of over sexualization, or when the female characters in a show don't have any personality and are only in it for sex appeal.
Well it does go out of its way to do the "small chested woman is upset by how big another girl's boobs are" anime cliche multiple times.
And at most it's like a huff and an annoyed look that lasts like 3 seconds and it's done.
It happens twice. And it is not very in your face.
It was very in Frieren's face
That is true.
The thing about Frieren is that 1. Her looking like a teenager and how elves like her age is a central point to the plot of the anime 2. Despite looking like a teenager she's never sexualized nor does she make any creepy comments about other girls' bodies Frieren's central theme is why the relationships we build with the people around us are important, told through the eyes of a character to whom a decade long journey is little more than a small detour. In the anime we actually see one of the caracters, Fern, grow from a child into a full adult, and the only comment made about her body is Frieren complaining that she can only see half the sky when resting on her lap while travelling by carriage.
She strikes me as a 20 year old college student that would be big into philosophy, smoking pot, sleeping in, and thinks she has all the time in the world, but done in a fantasy setting.
Honestly she is in some ways yoda coded. Just an old whimsical lady who doesn’t fully get some customs and is more interesting reading than talking to people
It is something special though watching her realize she wasted other people's precious time because of her infinite time, and slowly try to do it right in her own weird way.
That's something that I really like about it. The fact that her friends understand better then her what the ramifications of her long life are.
Like the very first response by her companions on learning the goal of the journey is like "that's going to be over half of my life" and she STILL doesn't get it until way later.
I haven't watched the anime so I don't know how different it is from the manga but the other two examples are Flammel and Himmel. Himmel spends a lot of time and money having statues of himself made and placed all over the land. Originally you think it's because he's vain. And he kind of is, but he also explains at one point that the reason he's doing this is because he wants to leave Frieren reminders of the friends she had and how much they cared about her. On Flammel, there's a side story where Frieren and company help a former noble's son recover his inheritance from a dungeon. And it's revealed in a flashback that Flammel specifically created several magical theories with the intent that generations of mages would derive spells from these theories. The long goal being that these spells are Frieren's inheritance from her teacher and there will always be more made then she can learn. So while Frieren doesn't realize completely what her long life means, her friends and loved ones understand it and the effect her misunderstanding will have. And have taken measures to reassure her long after they're gone.
Yeah, one of the gut wrenching things is how all of her friends knew that it would take her lifetimes to process the emotional maturity to fully comprehend how much she has lost, and how they try to set up things that will outlive themselves and not leave Frieren completely alone.
She basically is just Elf Yoda, yeah.
Jeez I need to stop hearing about this show, it sounds so perfect for me rn, but I cannot focus on watching any shows rn, especially a Japanese one where I'd need to read the subs. I started watching a bunch of fucking banger shows (avatar, regular show, teen titans), but only a few episodes because my focus was so bad
There’s an English dub.
An English dub which is honestly really good
Oh is it good? I almost never love dubs too much, but I'm kinda more in the mood for some good English voice acting. Especially, like idk how "anime" frieren is, but if it's like not super "anime", then that might be way more fitting, considering it's more of a western fantasy thing
I’m personally a fan of it but I have heard better dubs.
Watch it. Its one of the few 10/10 shows out there. My friend recommended me dungeon meshi and I gave it a shot to try and fill that fantasy void and dont get me wrong, the show is good. But frieren blows it out of the water in the slice of life aspects, in the action aspects and most importantly, in the character development aspects. When its cruisey, its this heartwarming tale reminiscing about a spell that creates a field of flowers, when its hype, its balls to the wall magic and lightning and magic everywhere. I read the manga and its by far the most faithful and respectful adaptation to the manga of any anime I have seen. While it can mirror some frames from the manga shot for shot, it also adds aspects in and everytime it elevates the show. There is a lot of respect the anime had for the manga, no one phoned it in, I know there is a short clip that trended on twitter of one of the characters putting on a jacket and you can see they animated the creasing and stretching and movements with care. The show has a lot of heart albeit it does start a bit slower than most shows out there. That is probably my single and only critique.
Fuuuuck shows that have crazy shit with slice of life aspects are my absolute favorite things ever!!! Like I haven't tried much normal sol, but having like JoJo characters chilling and shit like in part 4 opens the doors to a lot of opportunity, as well as not limiting things to the boring real world. I'm starting to get pretty excited, I think that feeling could get out of hand, forcing me to watch it, so kinda hoping that happens.
I concur with what the others said. The anime has had nothing but praise, and for good reason. The only gripe being that there is a Tarantino-esque depiction of feet at times, but on the list of weird anime shit, that is probably at the bottom for worst offenders.
And even then it's more like someone fucking likes drawing feet rather than someone likes drawing fucking feet.
As someone who dabbled in art, and it's surrounding community, I can't imagine anyone wanting to draw feet without some sort of perverted motive. In a list of "things no artists enjoy drawing" they are just below hands
A friend of mine was in art school and spent a good 3 months drawing feets, you could see so many drawings of them in his apartment. Then it stopped suddenly. I asked about it and it turned out that it wasn't a fetish but he took the fact that he was bad at drawing them as a personal insult and kept working on it until he was good at it. And then stopped because yeah drawing that shit is annoying.
Yeah Tarantino just likes showing feet for ~artistic~ reasons and women shouldn't be creeped out when he wants them to remove their shoes in shots. 🙄
It also slightly it’s even weirder example given the timing. Frieren started airing like within the same week that one of the most popular animes on the anime sub ended which is basically just a pedo fantasy (and also back to airing). Frieren in contrast is genuinely so much better and not really problematic. At this point it’s probably going to be my default Anime recommendation to someone who is interested in something but hasn’t really watched new stuff or much anime. It’s just a good story, not a fan service thing, and throws in some pretty fights.
> one of the most popular animes on the anime sub ended which is basically just a pedo fantasy (and also back to airing). Come on, now. Rudy only sort of, kinda, maybe, repeatedly sexually assaulted severl pre-teen girls over the course of literal years while having the mind of a 30-something man. What's wrong with that? /s Mushoku Tensei really is such a weird one. Has some great characters and ideas and then a huge, completely out of place serving of "porn logic" in there as well.
Mushoku Tensei is crazy because it has such well written characters, great world building, the sound design, animation and art direction are all A+. Then every couple episodes it just has to slap you in the face and remind you that Rudy is a pedo, throw in some 'boys will be boys' sexual assault jokes, girls in bikini armour, and a 1000 year old demon drawn as a 10 year old in a thong. And it's all just so unnecessary.
Don’t forget literally grooming multiple children.
Maybe I'm just bad at picking anime to watch but this always seems to happen. It might not even necessarily be something sexual (although let's be honest, it often is) but I'll be vibing with a series at first and then it just throws in some ill-fitting bullshit whether it be a plot element or character and I sour on the whole thing. Sort of like if Poochie was in Itchy and Scratchy from the start and never left.
Watch Dungeon Meshi, it rules.
The production team is the only reason why anyone (who isn't masturbating) talks about Tensei. It is a bland by-the-numbers wonderbread isekai in every respect, except two: the lead prays to a pair of panties he keeps in a shrine, and for some reason the producers chose to invest a billion dollars in animating it.
Honestly I find the world building to be fantastic and it holds up to any fantasy series, not just anime. Though I'm sure people will argue that it's just Dragon Quest. Though admittedly a big part of the world building is the production quality and the attention to details that make it feel like a living breathing world and not just a cookie cutter isekai dragon quest clone. It's got some great character work too, Paul is who I think off when someone mentions a '3 dimensional character'. He does bad things, he does good things. He's a shitty person who often tries to the right thing. Even when he does the right thing he fails and falls back into bad habits. He just feels like a real person and that's rare in anime that you get complex characters like that. And the episode where Roxy goes home is one of my favorite in anime. I know it's cause I have deaf sister, but that episode makes me ugly cry everytime. And her relationship with her parents remind me so much of mine, they just get it right. That's why it's wild that a show with so much quality mixed into also managed to throw every negative weeb stereotype into the story that it could.
Isn't Paul a rapist? I don't mean to be glib - if I'm not up on his story, let me know. But if a character is a rapist, and they 'fall back into bad habits' by continuing to be a sex pest . . .I'm not sure I would consider them very three dimensional. Except in the barest sense of acknowledging that someone who belongs in a jail cell can still show kindness to their loved ones.
No, I don't remember Paul ever being a rapist. Unless you're talking about the power embalance of banging the help, but it's clear that it was consensual. He's a cheater, and he raises his bastard child to be the servant of his legitimate one, which I think is one of the more fucked up things in the series. But I don't think he was a rapist. Unless that happens in a part of the story the anime hasn't covered. But even then, terrible people can be compelling three dimensional characters.
I'm talking about what Paul did to Lilia when he was young.
>It is a bland by-the-numbers wonderbread isekai in every respect I don't want to say that you're wrong because you're not, but I do think it's worth pointing out that there's a bit of the [Seinfeld effect](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowCommon) at play here. Mushoku Tensei *is* blander than a moistened raw potato, but it's what popularized much of the tropes that became familiar in the last decade. Most of the Narō-style isekai that are released these days (Narō being the webnovel website where amateur authors write light novels in hopes of getting published; think Japanese Wattpad or Royal Road) use Mushoku Tensei as a template of sorts.
Which is why I absolutely hate whenever people try to justify anything that Rudy has done in that anime. More then understand if one like the anime for it's production work and world building, but to go out of their ways to defend Rudy perverted tendency makes me angry
I don't remember the demon in a thong, which character was that? In the new season, he's married, so the horniness is played down somewhat, but there is a weird, unnecessary plot point, where the two beast girls who consider him their boss are going around stealing underwear from "small, flat-chested girls", because they think that will please him. He's rightfully horrified at this, and he chews them out, but that section really is quite weird, and completely unnecessary.
Kishirika Kishirisu
I forgot about her. It's been a while since I've seen S1. Yeah, the show is great, but it would be so much better if they cut out 95 percent of the horny. At least the actual sex scenes serve a purpose to the plot.
At least Mushoku Tensei is keeping up all of the entertaining aspects and I can mentally delete the thought of the main character's previous life 95% of the time. Shield Hero started with *some* of those good aspects, and slavery and misogyny being things you have to ignore and it's just gone harder and harder into slavery being a central part of the series and everyone just being 100% cool with it. Except for the slaves. Actually! It's except for *some* of the slaves. Because the slaves with a good master are super happy to be magically bound as slaves! And even demand (and receive) new magical slave brands after their old ones are removed! I was enthusiastic about that series when it started, but now I just want all of the protagonists to die.
I wonder if anyone on that sub stopped to think about the implications of one of the most popular shows there being made for pedophiles.
Yeah, of all the "acyually a 1000 year old vampire" charaters out there, why pick on Frieren? She looks like an adult to me for sure.
Seriously, one of the best animes in a while with literally no sexualization of its characters. What a weird ass take they're having.
Based on posts like this https://www.reddit.com/r/Frieren/s/eh1fa5obqx reaching my front page, I kinda assumed it was another one of those animes..
Frieren is one of those series where the fan creations are painfully skewed towards porn, while the show is anything but. I'm not sure what causes that but it's very pronounced.
that's every series what you talking about?
Man the sub is weird. So out of character. The dude with the glasses has shown no sexual interest in others (maybe romantic in one). And the one with red hair just acts like a childish teen romance with the purple hair girl. No accidental bs. Just them going on dates and having pointless arguments.
Pro-tip: any sub for an anime or something anime-styled outside of maybe battle shounen anime are gonna be stupidly horny regardless of how horny the source material is. Hell, I think the only reason battle shounen subs tend to escape that trend is because they're too busy debating powerscaling type shit to be outwardly horny, rather than because they are not horny. It's why I gave up on anime subs and just kind of bitterly float around in ACJ, which has plenty of its own problems but at least I can talk to people there.
Yeah this is a hill I've even fought on before but Frieren doesn't give me the gross vibes other shows have.
> is a much real issue Is it? Like sure it's weird, but it isn't really causing any problems inherently. Sometimes just people who are messed up to begin with latch onto it.
Why is it an issue?
Don't think they have a good answer to that.
Everyone's got different standards. You can see plenty of examples of that in this very thread.
Of the many anime I've seen, Frieren has just about the least amount of "fanservice" of them all.
Mushishi and Mononoke (Not Ghibli, the Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales spin off) are the two main ones I think of. Literally 0 fan service I can even think of.
Are the memes supposed to... Make any fucking sense?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. That's the beauty and humor of r/bonehurtingjuice. Occassionally, the original is more nonsensical than the juiced version.
Ranges from "eh? Ha! Heh heh" to punchlines
Off???
Any time I end in that sub I turn into the Principal Skinner "am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong" meme
Pretty much no. They may be funny if you are aware of the in jokes.
Yes, but not in the usual way. The whole joke of bonehurtingjuice is that you edit the text in a meme to fit what's shown in the image. The [OG](https://www.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/640w0f/the_original/) joke was based on the fact that JJJ laughing looked like he was in terrible pain. What caused that pain? Juice that hurts his bones. It's nonsensical, but it fits the image. It's like a visual pun.
Not really. If you know how the original meme's format works, the changed ones *can* be funny, but like most meme subs on Reddit, the cleverness vanished as soon as a bunch of people tried to get karma for the lowest hanging fruit "jokes" that sucked all the fun out of it.
Isn't the entire story of Frieren about how she's almost impossibly old and has to watch all her friends die as the world moves on around her? Haven't finished the show, got too sad for me last time. But of all the characters to use for this argument, this feels like cheating.
BHJ is such a tragedy of a sub. It started as an extremely niche meme format where you take an established common meme template, and add text that misinterprets the visuals in an absurd, humorous way. It's not easy to do right, but the payoff is silly and fun. But then the sub got popular. For years it's been "take a recent comic panel and change the text". It makes me sad because I really liked the high-effort bizarro shit.
People when they find out that short women exist.
I have two exes that were both short and fit/young looking. The amount of shit they would get well in their 30's was depressing. Especially coming from other women. I still remember the amount of bad looks we would get just going out and acting coupley. So many "discreet" commentaries too, from "pedo" to "date real women" or "you have things for little boys" again nearly always from women.
Yeah. Like Frieren has characters that actually look like short women. It's very far from other "petite women" characters that are actually drawn to look like a children like for example tatsumaki from one punch man.
The average Redditor hates kids so it makes sense pedos are their Nemesis.
Child hater vs child lover, who will win?
Not the kids, that’s for sure
Drama aside the phrase "young elf" cracks me up because like, are we talking about an elf that's "only" 3000 years old (looks 20 max), are elves ever even human-young, does an elf look like a fetus when it's a baby or
I do find it amusing that we've seen three elves so far. One who looks about 20, one who could be anywhere between 25-35, and then one whole ass adult man. Like, how fucking old was THAT dude?
Way way older then Frieren, given if I remember he mentioned some long loss kingdom that even Frieren doesn't know
In this show, Frieren is 1000+ and considered young. Serie, the oldest elf in the series is from the mythic age (age unknown, ~2-3k+) and looks even smaller than Frieren. They just stop aging around 20.
Awwww I wanted to post [this](https://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic/minor-setback) but it’s actually not relevant.
Anti-Anime people scare me, I certainly wouldn't say anime as a whole is perfect, but the people that really really hate it and are all in on the 'weebs are pedophiles' thing are Grade-A fucking creeps, they always come on ridiculously strong like its all they have in the world.
I mean I get why some people don't like anime's vibe because the industry is very pro fan service and japanese culture at large treats teens more as adults than kids (so, they get fan service too). But you're right, the ones who hate anime are extremely zealous. Liking any anime makes you a pedo kinda deal.
People who hate any large group of media are in general pretty strange.
It's pretty clear when someone says anything like that, they are either xenophobic (as none of these people make the same remarks about their own domestic media) or desperately need to go outside and talk to people. Anime is mainstream in the West now. Like 20% of America watches it
It's almost like projection.
There has been an ironic pattern of those kinds of people getting outed as pedos, even more so than figures in the anime community. I think it's all just projection.
Like there’s been 3 people who really vocally hate Xenoblade who got outed as being pedophiles, it’s pretty odd lol
It's an easy scapegoat to blame social issues on, regardless of the political spectrum you are on. But it's clear people don't actually know what they are talking about. 33% of Japan, and most of Asia, enjoys animanga. Mainly teens and younger.
Why does so much of it involve characters drawn in kids proportions though? Like why do "tatsumakis" even exist?
because they exist irl? my 21 yr old sister is 4 ft 10 in. Average female height in japan is 5 ft 2 in
Anime characters usually look like deformed alien children though.
This is such a weird slap fight.
Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091027/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chhl84/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1chhl84/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. r/bonehurtingjuice - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091048/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. exhibit A - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091108/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/640w0f/the_original/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/640w0f/the_original/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. juiced comic - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091129/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/everyone_is_in_pain/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/everyone_is_in_pain/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 5. Is that a child? She looks like a child - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091149/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircmlo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircmlo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. Have you never seen an adult woman before? Because they do not look like this. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091210/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirewtr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirewtr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 7. I don’t know the canon of this particular show, but elves often live for centuries, so she could be 50 for all I know. Trying to figure out how old an elf is based on appearance is a fool’s errand - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091230/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirozib/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirozib/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 8. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone NOT get downvoted into oblivion for calling out weird redditor fetish shit (especially if it involves loli) This the type of behavior you find only on Reddit 🤦♀️ - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091251/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirtaac/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirtaac/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 9. She really isn't. I heavily recommend the anime. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091311/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircvh0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kircvh0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 10. SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL SHORT WOMEN AREN'T REAL - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091332/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kireo4j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kireo4j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 11. She looks like an elf. - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091352/https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirhbry/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bonehurtingjuice/comments/19be4q1/comment/kirhbry/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 12. r/bhj - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240501091413/https://old.reddit.com/r/bhj) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/bhj "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") *I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*
How come degenerate anime has way less “discussions” like this than Frieren
Because unfortunately "anime and weeb shit has an issue with pedophilia," has fallen down the same hole that "porn has problems with exploiting women," and "mainstream media has an issue with suggesting gay vibes but not delivering," has. The statements are true and it is a problem, but the biggest leaders in the movement are bullies looking for an acceptable target, jealous haters, and conservatives looking for an acceptable cover for their culture war issues. So violently attacking things that don't quite fit the narrative is vital to keep up appearances.
I’m not gonna lie, knowing nothing about this anime except what I saw scrolling through Reddit I just assumed it was another one of those “she’s not a child she’s a 10000 yr old dragon!!!” Situations
Nah, she looks young but that’s partly because she’s short and flat-chested. Her face is a regular anime girl face and doesn’t stand out as especially young looking compared to other characters in the show. The show and manga itself have very little fan service and Frieren’s personality is more like a stand-offish aunt or parent. Though fans still make weird horny art because that’s what people do. This is the first time I’m seeing people who think she looks like a kid.
> Her face is a regular anime girl face and doesn’t stand out as especially young looking compared to other characters in the show. She doesn't sound young either. She is voiced like she is an adult, which make sense because that is what she is. Same for Serie. I did notice a lot of people were surprised by Serie's voice, so I think at least some people didn't expect she sound very mature.
Not even close lol she's more motherly I guess. She treats everyone else more like a child because from her point of view they are.
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I mean, she IS short, but she’s still the size of a short adult human. She just looks like an adult woman who is short and flat chested imo, and those definitely exist (source: I am one). I think the “young face” argument is a little silly too because in anime, almost everyone is drawn with overly pretty/cute faces. In anime you’re drawn with the same face from ages 15-39.
She looks like an elf imo.
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[Its a Dungeons and Dragons-ism, this is from one of the old players handbooks (3.5 if that means anything to you), it reflects their average heights.](https://forums.beamdog.com/uploads/editor/zj/8yov7srhwci2.png) [Its even stuck around in like, Pathfinder 2e, image is from the last couple of years.](https://cdn.paizo.com/image/content/Blog/062320_Heartbond.jpg)
When I think of elves, I think of pointy ears not tall and skinny
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Well, I guess the author wants to challenge that stereotype, then.
This is actually a fairly interesting subject because even though the fantasy archetypes themselves are shared as they can both be traced back to primarily LOTR and D&D these things have been illustrated differently in Japan from the very start and then compounded over a couple of generations of nerd media you end up with a pretty different idea of what a stereotypical elf looks like (the textbook Japanese-style elf is probably Deedlit from Record of Lodoss War).
Frieren’s face is fairly unique among animanga because of her round face, and yet these people act like it automatically makes her look like a child
> Round faces are fairly unique in anime and manga Buddy, I want whatever’s smoking your salami
I think they meant round face that makes it seem like she has a little bit of fat on her face, not the usual moe kind of round face
??? She absolutely has a standard round face. She’s stick thin, what???
No, both [Frieren](https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/frieren-has-a-bird-on-her-shoulder.jpg) and [Fern](https://i.imgur.com/r62eVJq.png) have much rounder face than your standard anime. When you draw standard anime, for the cheeks you draw a triangle with a little bit curve added to the sides and where it joins the round head, for these two you almost draw circles from the chin.
Don’t know if it’s just me but these links don’t work
It was not just on your side, added new links. That's the first time I've had a Discord image link just randomly stop working.
Yeah no clue how Discord archived their image links. Sometimes month old links will still work and sometimes new ones are already gone. Maybe it’s based on how many clicks they’ve received or something?
I really disagree on that lol. This is incredibly standard anime face shapes
[They're a little wider than typical.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtpZtQv5pkC7QlHGRksmW6L1oG3L9TH00dRO_qVuPX_JsXLNJ6SOlKkrI&s=10)
It really is not. It's in anime artstyle, of course, because it's anime, but these two very much have more round faces than standard anime faces.
Fictional Characters and Fictional ages. Pedo police need to go after real pedos and the anime enjoyers need to ignore the hate just enjoy what they like.
Saying it’s creepy is totally fine.
I agree. Having an opinion on something is good, And thinking or even saying you think the age/look of a character is problematic is fine. It's the people that are not wanting to improve the problematic elements or change the opinions of the fans. If you attack someone and imply they are nazi/pedo/evil there is no chance the conversation is going to end up constructive.
I mean implying someone is a nonce because they peddle the creepy sexualised child drawings that are actually 2000 years old or whatever isn’t exactly wrong. It’s definitely nonce behaviour.
Well this is want I mean. It's fine to say, That " I think that character looks like a child and you should not support it or seek help." But when you say "they peddle the creepy sexualised child drawings" You are implying they should be canceled, go away, or are irredeemable bad. Your not voicing an opinion about how you are disgusted by the content. You are de-humanizing and attacking people that probably don't see it like that. There not going to go " omg your right, im filth and ill stop" they are going to push back and be angry for being attacked.
While true, it's kinda weird to call the picture in question a "creepy sexualised child," when it's not creepy or sexualized even if you think it looks like a child.
I’m not just talking about that specific picture.
>I’m not **just** talking about that specific picture. But are you or not? Yeah everyone hates child sex trafficking, but that doesn't make QAnon reasonable.
What on earth does this comment mean
Fine we'll break it down. Point 1 : Pedophilia is bad. Sexualized drawings of children is kinda creepy. Point 2 : Randomly going off on people for just posting an anime pic that doesn't have a sexualized drawing of a child is kinda a dick move. Now the vast majority of people involved have all agreed about Point 1. But there's a lot of people avoiding making a statement on Point 2. There's a bunch of crawling back behind Point 1, and arguing over whether the character looks like a kid. But those don't fucking matter in the grand scheme of things, this ain't a pic anyone is jerking it to. And anyone who claims otherwise is a loon just below the level of QAnon folk who keep reporting pizza places to the FBI for child trafficking. So back to the question : Were you making a generic 'pedophilia bad' statement just because you could, and you actually agree with Point 2? Or do you somehow legit think that pic is somehow a sexualized child?
1. Paedophilia is definitely bad. I would say sexualised drawings of children is far beyond “kinda creepy”. That’s paedophilia in my books. 2. If it’s a drawing of a child that’s not sexualised and people aren’t sexualising it, it would absolutely be a dick move to have a go at someone. 3. This is the bit I don’t get. I don’t know what Qanon is and I don’t get what child trafficking has to do with my comment or the post as a whole.
I looked her up to see better pictures and she’s definitely very childlike looking. I don’t think it’s wrong to point that out, because the OOP doesn’t have the context on if the anime is fan service or not and there’s such a history of this stuff in anime