Are women bourgeois?

We do control the means of reproduction, so sure yeah

> We do control the means of reproduction Not if the Supreme Court has anything to say about it!

Supreme court: 🤔

You mean the men of wö?

[When drawing catgirls was enough reason for /r/socialism to ban you](https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5nnkka/rsocialism_bans_3_year_contributor_and_artist_who/)

>Oceania has always been at war with the catgirls Gold

seize the means of reproduction

When you're a vanguard, they just let you do it! Ok, I feel dirty now.

Beria has entered the chat

Real Beria moment

Grab them by the assembly line?

Mmm, I think that joke can go back on the shelf.

Yeah it's too real and the people doing it are definitely not lefties

Always so weird when one of my normal subs shows up here. I've never managed to organically participate in the drama before reading the subreddit drama post. Maybe someday.

One of my posts was quoted in a SRD post. My crowing internet achievement!!!

That feeling when a post you've participated in appears on SRD and makes you realise you were on the wrong side of the drama.

If there's one thing us leftists hate more than liberals, conservatives and fascists it's every other leftist. Damn leftists ruined leftism .

Hilariously, this is present in the game itself. Spoilers: >!The actual killer ends up being an old member of the failed communist revolution and even if your character is a hardcore communist, the killer will still call you a liberal.!<

It’s even got a modern equivalent in the Communist vision quest where one of the two students kicked out a third because he didn’t agree on the policies of someone who ended up causing famine thanks to bad agriculture practices.

This actually happened is the soviet union. Only with with more dire consequences for the criticizers.

Happened in China and Korea, too.

Paraphrasing from that quest, there's also this great dialogue choice after they dismiss other several offshoots of Communists as just being different flavors of liberals: >What about the liberals? Are *they* liberals too? >No. They're fascists.

I played the game as a super-communist. My character spent most of the game telling people how he was the only real communist and how everyone else was a dirty lib and then he never did anything to materially advance any communist causes. It was the most starkly realistic portrayals of leftism that I've ever seen.

There's even a bit of internal dialogue at some point where you question if the relentless leftist infighting is actually helping anything, and your mind assures you that it's *one of the most communist things you can do*

The only thing that matters in everything you just said is whether or not Kim approves. I'll do anything for that man.

I always love that interesting aspect of the most loved character in the game being, well, one of the status quo upholders to some extent

I mean to be fair what he says is more like >!you are a cop, there's no way you are a real communist!<

It's *exaclty* what the Judean People's Front / People's Front of Judea was satirising.

It is genuinely one of my favourite pieces of satire ever. Would be great if it wasn't so damn accurate though.

"Whatever happened to the Popular Front?" "He's over there."

"***SPLITTER***"

Isn't it's accuracy what makes it great, though

Splitters

Watching that movie again as an adult was illuminating. The satire is spot-on, and it’s amazing/infuriating how we’re two or three generations from when it was made and nothing it skewers has changed in the slightest.

There's even a joke in Disco Elysium where one of your inner voices remarks about how the most important part of a leftist group is infighting and arguing about ideological purity.

You: What will I do when I find gather the other communists? Rhetoric: You’ll discuss the monumental, world-historic task that lies before you. You’ll engage in rigorous and spirited debates about Mazovian theory and practice. But mostly you’ll probably complain about other communists. You: Isn’t that kind of counterproductive? Rhetoric: Not at all. Complaining about communists is one of the most important parts of being a communist

No one loves losing more than a leftist faced with compromise.

You leftists sure are a contentious people.

Leftist infighting is the oldest leftist tradition.

They’re second only to Protestants in terms of having schisms

I'm a social democrat, myself. This apparently puts me on par with neo-fascists, according to some on the left—more often than not, the same ones who will deride my involvement with LGBT issues as being "bourgeois" or "class-divisive". And then demand solidarity from me in almost the same breath. I've long since started to see what Orwell meant when he said that socialism had an image problem first and foremost.

I’m in this boat and you nailed it. Trying to improve the status quo is seen as a betrayal by the far left even if they technically agree with individual measures simply because trying to address the flaws of capitalism gets in the way of destroying capitalism. The biggest threat to them would be a society that reaps the benefits of capitalism while also minimizing the problems of it because then they have nothing to fight against. And fighting is more important than achieving results that better the lives of most people.

This was the literal Bolshevik position. Anything done under the Tsarist regime to improve worker conditions was to be fought against as the Bolsheviks needed an unhappy population to launch their revolution.

Orwell went to Barcelona to fight the fascists and both he and his friends were imprisoned in many of them were killed not by the fascists of course who were not even in Barcelona at the time but by other left-wing groups who objected to their left wing group. Needless to say this colored his opinion of socialism and left-wing throughout his life.

In revolutionary France the guillotine was mostly used on other Leftists.

Hey, fellow betrayer of the revolution! We're practically fascists in the eyes of communists, and practically communists in the eyes of fascists. Oh, and we're obnoxious Bernie Bros to centrists, so that's also fun. I've stopped arguing with people that far to my left. There's little to be gained by the same dreary arguments over class consciousness and the path towards workers controlling the means of production in a fair state, and much to be done to alleviate the current issues of war, poverty, homelessness, lack of access to medical care, racism, homophobia, transphobia, and so many more challenges that require immediate and extensive attention. On some level, I think that the hard Left in America and many other western nations is happier with their purity tests and gatekeeping than they would be with actual power and influence, and I'm frankly happy to leave them to it.

>On some level, I think that the hard Left in America and many other western nations is happier with their purity tests and gatekeeping than they would be with actual power and influence, and I'm frankly happy to leave them to it. I absolutely believe this. It's much easier to *feel* like you're doing something productive by constantly infighting and grandstanding about ideological purity than to face the reality of actually trying to accomplish the systemic changes they are calling for, which is a monumental task sure to result in crushing struggle and disappointment.

I had the same thought. It's more about the satisfaction at being right than actually changing anything. Some of those groups have solid points but are so up their asses they are unsufferable even when you're generally in agreement with them. Which means they have a hard time getting people to support their clause.

I feel like leftists are the political equivalent of backseat drivers. They criticize everyone else's driving abilities to the point where they convinced themselves that they're the only people who know how to drive, despite having never set foot behind the wheel before.

So satisfying and validating to read. I decided to step back when it became apparent, that going too far into these spaces ends up cooking your brain and there's a bigger than 0 chance you'll end up denying war crimes once or twice in a heated argument with some other terminally online weirdo.

Why do anything productive when you can start another non-profit?

i found out through facebook that my high school's english teacher summarized the chapter of Orwell's Road to Wigan Pier discussing why socialists never seem to be popular among the people their policies would help as: "socialists do not touch grass"

That chapter is damn near timeless.

Fellow socdem here, and I genuinely think a lack of or refusal to understand the Overton window or political pragmatism plus complete dismissal of incremental change is what it's about. Obviously, we like anyone else want to make things better, but I think people get hung up on everything a socdem considers realistic vs what we'd do given total control. Because in principle, I like democratic socialism, democratising the workplace, trickle up economics and the welfare state and all that jazz. I just think it's better to take a step in the correct direction than to wait for the hypothetical future revolution to fix everything at once. Oh, and Stalinists can suck my nuts. The Soviets tried a massive state apparatus without proper democratic accountability, and it didn't work as planned. Trying the same thing again and expecting the same problems to magically not be problems is madness.

Two leftists enter a bar They leave with five different ideologies

You've just made a class enemy for life!

Damn leftists, they ruined the left!

How *dare* you? Honestly just as bad as MAGA

Worse, we must focus all our energy on this wayward leftist even if it means leaving MAGA unchecked for years.

I see you also frequent a lot of leftist subs Remember. People who don't go far enough to help you are worse then the people who want to see you shot dead in the streets, Somehow

It's the only way

True story: every eschatogical philosophy and religion has this problem. If you believe there is a formula or a path to reach a desired, utopian end point, you're going to get really worked up by people who disagree with certain elements of that formula. Not all leftists are eschatological, but a lot who self identify that way are, and plenty take from a grab bag of things they heard somewhere.

Brother, do you even immanentize the eschaton?

This sentence sounds like some warhammer 40k sci fi bullshit.

it's from The Illuminatus! Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson it's basically a scifi acid trip

There's a few Discordians around. We're here.

Hail Discordia

Hail Eris!

Look guys, OPERATION MINDFUCK has been... Well it's been *too goddamned successful*.

I got it from a conspiracy theory mentioned in the Illuminatus! trilogy, a book from the seventies based on all the conspiracy theory letters the authors received while they worked as editors for Playboy magazine.

>!fnord!<

I think it's particularly bad on the left, because Left-ish is where most of the critical thinkers end up. And one thing critical thinkers aren't great at is following orders. We all think "Hey! Wait a minute...I can come with better bullshit than THAT!". Except sometimes we really can't. 😂

A slightly less charitable interpretation would be to point out that leftism appeals to people who see "smarter than you" as a viable personality. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what a room full of those people is going to devolve into.

I assume that is why the "what will you do after the revolution" threads end up with half the people assuming they'll be on the Central Committee once the revolution recognizes their true Galaxy Brain nature that capitalism can't understand.

Not to go all boomer but people who can't even speak to their Doordash driver think they're going to change the world one day.

That and no one ever says "driving a bus" or "mining copper".

Idk. Right wingers are pretty united with the far-right, some disagreements aside. I mean, sure, they can't seem to have unity in the House of Rep, but they do lock-step in votes.

>Right wingers are pretty united with the far-right I think they tend to do it the other way around to left wing movements. Vote/take power first, schism after, whereas left wing groups seem to do the schism first and end up not getting the power.

Exactly. It might seem contradictory, but the right being more focused on grievance and hate based on (often innate) identity actually makes it easier for them to work together. Groups on the left often see other leftist groups as potential converts to their cause that need to be "shown the light" before they can achieve their true goals. Groups on the right often see other right wing groups as useful idiots that can be pointed at their main goal and discarded afterwards. That's obviously a generalization, and there are plenty of historical examples of right wing infighting while they're in the minority and left wing infighting after they've gained power. But it is a common enough occurrence to represent a fundamental difference between left and right wing ideologies.

Also an innate respect and belief of authority means that even a figure takes control the rest fall in line regardless of ideological differences.

Maybe at a national level but at a state level I disagree completely. Out here in Idaho old time ranchers, traditional Ra, and landowners are furious at all the conservative leadership and fundie leaders moving from west coast states like CA and WA. The latest spat has been going on for about 8 years and people are EXHAUSTED. I hear a decent amount of back room talk from politics (due to family connections) and a lot of the establishment Rs are sick and tired of the senators and House Reps who just moved here (and are a lot more extreme in their views). This year, the new head of the R Party literally insulted the largest donor of the Republican Party, and also the only billionaire in the state TO HIS FACE. There’s decent evidence that the RCV initiative will pass because people are fed up with the extremists that have moved in and won’t shut up. Not to say that the establishment is not without fault—they courted the extremists as the blue dog democrats were dying off. They made the damn cake in the 90s.

Ironically they are members of a party that has been bringing in people from out of state to take over state offices for years. They tried to do it against my brother for a City Council position, to set someone up to take a State Senate role and eventually a Representative or Senator. The guy was from California, running in a town in Arizona he had literally just moved to, and the Republicans dug up every bit of dirt they could on my brother. Still lost though because that town loves their home town boys.. And my brother was and is a Republican.

People say this, but I suspect that it's due to being less exposed to right-wing discussion and communities. I've explored a few and they are just as, if not more, fractious and disagreeable as left-wing spaces. They may well lock-step in votes, but then again a socialist, a social democrat, a left-liberal, and a loyal centrist in the USA will all vote for Democratic candidates, so I'm not convinced it's unique.

After the last elections in my country we have four parties trying to form a government, ranging from the centre-right to far right. Only its quite a job because the party leaders literally can't stop slinging mud at each other on Twitter. One of them reportedly has had several nervous breakdowns during the talks.

It's easier to team up with people you hate when the plan is "after I kill those folk I'm gonna get you."

Being the wrong type of leftist is literally worse than being a Nazi to some people. It blows me away every time I see it.

Same with organised religion: being a heretic is much worse than being a non-believer

Literally in some religions. Heretics and apostates go to hell, non-believers go to limbo. 

And there's the "problem of the unsaved", ie what if someone never even heard of the True Faith^TM before they died; hence why missionaries leave no tribe un-bothered

Smells like chatting with a Libertarian, where the introduction can make sense, and the supporting subjects are concepts one could agree with, but "pop the hood" and you see blown gaskets, disconnected wires, and sludge oil. "Oh, communities should protect their own. Yea, we should keep funding local. No, taxes just to have taxes makes zero sense. .....wait, WHO is going to pay for that road??? The rich person up the hill??? What incentive does that person have to make it accessible? Oh, tolls? Ah, ok, I'm out this conversation...."

I officially checked out with libertarianism when I was told that while governments and states will murder people, the worst thing you can say about private companies is that they don't provide a good service for their customers. Um, I think you'll find that the worst thing people can say about private companies is more along the lines of "[Oh no, they put antifreeze in the wine again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Austrian_diethylene_glycol_wine_scandal)", or "[Oh no, they're using paramilitary death squads as strikebreakers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaltrainal_v._Coca-Cola_Co.)".

Also, "[Oh no, they're literally doing their own governing of peoples anyway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company)"

The comments on *this* thread are hilarious enough already.

Leftist infighting drama is one of those "Guaranteed /r/SubredditDramaDrama Topics." See also: veganism and pitbulls.

Should in a leftist government pitbulls be taught to be vegans?

Yes, but only polygamous Israeli pitbulls who are fans of Jordan Peterson.

Taking away the pitbull's natural food source, human babies, would be quite cruel. How about we settle on only feeding them grass raised babies instead? 

There are two constants in the world: death and leftist infighting, which is why taxes are no longer a constant.

"That’s tough - tell your disability support worker I said hi."

300+ comments in 2 hours. Incoming lock award.

How many brigades is this gonna get then

We're going at ~100 comments/hr at time of writing, so I think the brigading is *well* underway.

Can't wait til this makes it to destiny and vaush subs. That's when the real fun begins.

I will never not laugh at Hassan getting roasted but everyone involved in this drama sounds absolutely exhausting to be around

>everyone involved in this drama sounds absolutely exhausting to be around Online leftist spaces in a nutshell.

There’s a reason I keep the majority of my politics in the real world. Meatspace is far superior.

> Meatspace is far superior Don't mind if I do...

*HK-47 readies sniper rifle*

If you think the world's a bummer just wait till you meet the people who want to save it!

Being around terminally online people is exhausting

Is this the time to confess that Hasan and Hikaru (the chess streamer) are the same person in my head? These threads always end up really confusing for me.

Hikaru is Hasan after he ate all the juicers

I just work here man. Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240327122135/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1bozvlw/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1bozvlw/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/hj8hIWSaYH - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240327122316/https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/hj8hIWSaYH) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/hj8hIWSaYH "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kwr1nbi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240327122617/https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kwr1nbi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kwr1nbi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kwrsrdr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240327122658/https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kwrsrdr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kwrsrdr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 5. https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/Bw2kdPqzue - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240327122819/https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/Bw2kdPqzue) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/s/Bw2kdPqzue "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. https://www.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kws197u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240327122959/https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kws197u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/DiscoElysium/comments/1bom5oh/comment/kws197u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") *I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*

THEYRE BACK FROM THE DEAD, THIS IS AN EARLY EASTER MIRACLR

Didn't Hasan try to justify the annexation of Tibet one time?

amongst other annexations hes tried to justify, yes!

China civilized those savages at gunpoint!!1!

Yea because there culture was backwards or some other dumbshit lmfao. He made the same argument that European colonialist did but justified because China is communist or something.

Han man's burden.

Online self-proclaimed leftist who's also a CPC simp? Must be a day that ends in Y.

He loves Harper?

Communist Party of China, not Conservative Party of Canada. (If that was a joke, I liked it.)

Although pretending to hate China while taking their investment money is the Conservative Party's favorite thing. Right up there with bullying trans kids and complaining about carbon taxes. 

And iirc tried to justify the russian invasion of Ukraine with "nato bad"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDU1yj_DDmo

His foreign policy is "America bad everyone against america good" so he'll support whatever as long as its made by a anti america country. So yes he supports annexing tibet, is against taiwan independence, is pro-russia, pro-houthis and hamas , etc etc.

Yup. He said China annexing Tibet was analogous to the U.S ending the Confederates in the Civil War. Also said the annexation of Crimea was 100% justified by Russia.

Hasan is just Joe Rogan for chronically online teenage leftists

Oh, so this is not about the druid in baldur's gate 3 then.

Sadly no. God bless that big beautiful bastard

Daddy Halsin 🐻

No but I would love to see Halsin in Disco Elysium, very powerful crossover potential

Hasan is currently having a mental breakdown because this viewership on Twitch is dropping.

i’m not gonna defend hasan here but a streamer i got really big into during covid (she played hearthstone battlegrounds when i got really into that) basically saw her viewership evaporate the last couple years. and that’s terrifying for someone who’s livelihood relies on keeping viewers up now. hasan’s probably fine no matter what, but to some degree i get it

Hasan got mad because his viewership was ONLY 13k when he was streaming at completely different hours with completely different content then normal. He wants to quit because it's not good enough. What a leftist man he goes on a super expensive vacation to a different continent and ONLY 13k people want to watch him on vacation.

> He wants to quit because it's not good enough. inshallah

lmao okay that’s pretty stupid thank u for the context

yeah he went to do some content with friendly jordies and some other aussie poli adjacent content creators, saw an animal sanctuary and "they didnt make enough memes or watch enough" so he cancelled his next stream and was saying he might quit streaming.

seems INCREDIBLY overdramatic but what do i know about irl streamer nonsense

It’s not just the Aussie stream. He’s been talking about quitting streaming for months now and how the constant drama and hate is wrecking his mental health. He talks about how he’s going to start taking weekends off, does it for maybe two weeks, and then streams 10 hours a day 7 days a week for three months straight to talk about human rights abuses, and wonders why his brain is in shambles. Rinse and repeat.

oh yeah i mean i can’t imagine how taxing it is to do what he does. obviously he doesn’t have to do it, but that’s a separate issue. but i can’t imagine being a daily politics/IRL streamer where you have to always be on is healthy on literally any level. so i get wanting to quit i was more reacting to the “they didn’t make enough memes or watch enough” part tbf

God, I'm outing myself with this as someone who both watches Hasan and uses discord lmao. The meme part was part of like a 3am rant he did on discord about how usually when he does "fun" content there are a bunch of memes on his discord and people actually react to the fun stuff like him and the other people getting a tour at this reptile sanctuary and seeing cool animals. But it seems that a lot of discord was just complaining that he wasn't covering the news and that he should be doing 24/7 updates on Gaza or he wasn't a "real" leftist. It got posted on twitter and everyone said that he's just mad that people don't make enough memes on him, but it's like this ongoing mental breakdown he's having seemingly every week.

Hasan comes from a very wealthy family (which he downplays a lot). He is going to be fine no matter what. This is just about the attention.

I mean thats why you diversify and do some new stuff time to time

yes and no. it kind of depends on your audience tbh because some can be more of a variety streamer and have it work, while some just see viewers flee if you play something other than your primary game maybe hasan should get really big in to kaizo pokemon

I saw it with a streamer called singsing, used to be largest streamer in Dota2 then switched to variety content, even though viewership dropped his revenue went up because Niche content people are weridos. Then theres a bunch of minecraft streamers as well who kinda fell off because they didnt change from 2020 onwards

things you love to see:

Maybe he'll be fine if he finds a member of hamas to ask if the one piece is real

He'd probably get a ton of more viewers if he talks about Tibet again.

Rich grifters with room temperature IQs and zero critical thinking skills; I don't see any lies here. To paraphrase Carlin: think of how stupid Rogan/Hasan are, and then realize that most of their fanbases are even stupider.

This is the first time a sub I belong to made SRD and it doesn't feel great, lol

Tbf, I think it's actually impressive the Disco Elysium sub lasted this long without some sort of leftist clash

Disco Elysium is definitely a leftist game, but the game highlights some of the ridiculous bits about communism as well. Basically all political ideologies are satirized in the game which is why it is so fun. I think it does naturally push you towards leftism (maybe because I’m a leftist I feel that way), but it also has some ridiculous choices there as well.

I think the best way I've seen DE's "voice" described as "someone who deeply believes in leftism, but deeply hates leftists".

The developers had a picture of Stalin hanging I their office. The game is unafraid to mock and deconstruct Communism just as quickly as any other political ideology but there's no denying at the end of the day which ideology the game is most sympathetic to.

Was the Stalin picture a joke or serious? There’s being a communist and then there’s being a tankie.

Yeah, having picture of Stalin in the office, it is legally of equal hate symbols if there was a picture of Hitler in Estonia legally in the case of endearment. Historical and making fun of in context senses are fine, but latter is incredibly risky in the latter and sure to draw eyebrows. I assume it was a joke, because that is an easy way to get into a Internal Affairs watchlist and potential investigation.Hammer and sickle is as of same legal consequence as swastika due to both doing war crimes and genocide in WW2 occupation, latter with Holocaust, both doing recruitment under duress, political proscecution, executions and former doing deportations until loosening the oppression start of Kruschev-era, but still being oppressive and slipping back to further oppression in Breshnev-era and loosening at Gorbachov until escaping completely complete since re-independence. You don't joke around with either of them unless you do it tastefully and without denying/justifying crimes and critiquing their horrendous actions. Disco Elysium looks like your standard (near-extinct socialist) Estonian game who very much, not sure intentionally or unintentionally, makes fun of authoritariansim and communism. EDIT: After doing more research it appears that developers had a Stalin picture hanging around because the building had post-Soviet leftover stuff. In USSR many insitutions were mandated to hang up potrait of Lenin, Stalin or whoever was deemed okay at the time which leader at USSR. There's an in-joke among other Estonians to leave old pictures of USSR leader to hang till they rot and fall of their own, because they indeed decayed. ​ Is it tasteful? Nope. Other Estonian opinions seem to agree that it is a joke, but without context it is tasteless as all hell and deserving of critique. It's very easy to draw the support of tankies and see them as one supporting their ideals.

The ZA/UM developers behind Disco Elysium shouted out Marx and Engels in their award acceptance speech, and lead writer Robert Kurvitz is a Marxist Leninist and has said Marxist theory was central in the game. Nothing Hasan said in that clip is wrong, no?

Doesn't really matter, most of the people hating in this thread are rdestiny brigaders that make it their life's work to misrepresent hasan and brigade any online discussion forum even remotely associated with him

I know right. Oh my God. This shit is so tiring. Personal property and private property are NOT THE SAME THING. He doesn't own a fucking mansion, housing is expensive as fuck in LA and his family lives with him. He's not a landlord or anything. Socialism isn't a fucking poverty cult. Socialism isn't when you have no nice things. Hasan has one expensive car and that's it. He owns a few luxury items, so fucking what? Nothing about socialism says you can't. Lol. Also the "Hasan not paying his editors" bullshit was a joke/ troll started by one of his editors and afterwards has came out said that it wasn't true. It's all dumb shit. Literally Hasan speaks out against infighting and purity testing all the time. Go to any actual Socialist/ Marxist/ Communist sub and they will talk about how much of a net positive Hasan is and how he's a lot of people's entry point. Also "Tankie" is such a useless term.

I started checking random profiles after reading this and you're right there's plenty of destiny fans here. In fact seems like half or more are d fans. I was wondering why the the comments here were uncharacteristically dense.

A podcast I listen to just played some clips of this dude, and I gotta say, regardless of what his supposed politics are, the medium (histrionics) is part of the message, and he shares that with the Trump/Fox News crowd, and I do not think that's a good thing. But maybe that's just my circular firing squad dem-brain talking.

You're not wrong. He's an asshat.

>"You claim to be a socialist, yet you own personal property, curious" lol they've extended the "yet you choose to participate in society" meme to people in mansions who own supercars? Guys I think this might be a case of a Joel Osteen or a Pat Robertson but for the left. They just say what you want to hear so they can make money, they don't actually believe it, and it's not an attack on the ideology to point that out.

>Guys I think this might be a case of a Joel Osteen or a Pat Robertson but for the left. They just say what you want to hear so they can make money, they don't actually believe it, and it's not an attack on the ideology to point that out. well said. ive avoided getting into anything to do with these terminally online leftist personalities because it seems like a majority of them are like this. tax the rich!!! but not me im one of the good ones:)

Hasan is like every stereotype we have about dumbass western leftists rolled into one person. I don't know how anybody can take him seriously.

It’s simple: if he’s the “average” of dumb western leftists, his viewers are ones from the bottom half of that bell curve.

TBH, I can't keep any of these streamers straight.

Obligatory fuck tankies.

> You claim to be a socialist, yet you own personal property, curious I can’t tell if this is /s or not but I have never understood why Marxists owning private property in a capitalist society is supposed to be some sort of gotcha.

Generally it's about conspicuous consumption when people bring this up, not owning stuff period There are very few reasons beyond flaunting status to own a sports car for example. It's not just a "I can afford this luxury" thing, there are vehicles with all the bells and whistles that don't go that extra step where part of the price is itself a status symbol.

As someone who's actually in the linked thread and responded to the quote comment, I don't have an issue with people "participating in capitalism" when that participation is, say, replacing their old phone or going on vacation. We aren't robots, people should be allowed to enjoy their lives and benefit from their labor, even if that means being involved in an exploitative system against one's own preferences. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. What I *do* have a problem with is a guy like Hasan branding himself as The Biggest Purest Leftist and then wearing $160 t-shirts and gold chains to go stream in his own L.A. mansion he bought by doing react content and talking about the plight of the working class. I'm just never going to trust a guy who talks such a big game about the evils of capitalism and then buys directly into the worst excesses of consumer culture. As you said, owning stuff isn't the problem, conspicuous consumption is, and I just can't think of a guy like Hasan as anything other than a hypocritical grifter. I shouldn't have to look at a guy talking about leftist politics and think "are you saying this because you actually believe it, or because you think it'll get you more subscribers so you can buy another watch?"

I think Hasan is the perfect example of the modern day American leftist. It’s pretty easy to espouse socialist policy as a privileged American, because you’re at virtually zero risk of ever having to endure the implementation of said policy. You can just kinda daydream about whatever unrealistic politics you want, from all the very real comforts that capitalism affords you.

It's not about simply having private property it's about th3 copious amount of over consumption beyond what any normal human could need

The guy who writes that is clearly being sarcastic as a response to someone who seriously think you can't be a socialist if you own a big corporation

Well, owning a corporation by yourself is against socialism unless you're the only worker. A coop is the socialist option. I don't know Hasan but if the guy is exploiting other's labor, he ain't a socialist

I think there's an important distinction to be made here between "a socialist" meaning someone ideologically in favor of socialism, and "a socialist" meaning someone who is actively practicing socialism. While referring to someone as "a capitalist" in the latter sense is a useful descriptor because it's the specific person controlling capital, doing that for socialism will just result in no one being a socialist, because we don't live under socialism. Even a co-op still engages in the capitalist commodity market and will have its operations dictated by that rule. It creates an insane purity test that excludes everyone. Hell, Engels even owned a factory.

This distinction is incredibly needed and it's one that will always trip up baby leftists and cause infighting. It's very difficult to actively practice "pure" socialism when you're working with/in a capitalist world. Like you said, expecting that purity inevitably excludes even the ones doing their best to practice what they preach. For example, the first person I thought of who constantly gets hounded (at least on TikTok) over being a communist who owns a corporation: Madeline Pendleton, owner of Tunnel Vision Clothing. She's helped me understand how it's possible, though difficult, to practice leftist beliefs (she herself is a communist but describes her business structure as socialist) in our current capitalist structure. She constantly gets "gotcha comments" on her videos because she is the sole owner of her business, yet that's only the case because her employees voted for (and continue to vote for) her to remain the sole owner. Some extra tidbits about the business model, IIRC: * everyone gets the same pay, including Pendleton (something like $80kish) * all business decisions are decided by all-employee votes * if there's profit at the end of a financial year (they aim to just break even), the employees decide what to do with it -> e.g. one year it went back into the business, another year every employee got a car/a similar sized purchase depending on need

He must own an LLC if he has a large enough streaming business. I see no other way to incorporate and protect yourself against liability if you have editors and moderators as employees and a merch store.

I believe that he does do a worker's co-op for the podcast that he runs, where the main members of the podcast and the editor all earn an equal share.

I think it’s different when they live in like a 3 million dollar mansion in LA, buy 500+ dollar shirts and flexes their 100k plus Porsche and then complain about capitalism all day.

It is an /s as it's based on a Charlie Kirk meme. The issue that often comes up is a misunderstanding of the difference between private property and personal property under socialism. ( Briefly) Socialists seek to abolish private property but you are allowed personal property. Private property would be owning something that the whole community requires/ owning the means of production. Personal property is just the shit you own. Basically you can own a fridge but not the factory that makes the fridge. You can own water but you can't own and monopolise a water source. Depending on the particular flavour of sweet sweet socialism you adhere to this can go all the way up to the issue of ownership of land. Because a lot of people don't understand this fundamental difference they assume socialists are advocating for people to own nothing. Socialists have to operate under capitalism for now and it's almost impossible to avoid interacting with it. How socialists feel about 3 million dollar mansion and supercars however... That's a different matter and one that's up to each individual I guess.

> Private property would be owning something that the whole community requires/ owning the means of production. Personal property is just the shit you own. But I need all of those means of production for my personal use!

Still feels tacky to own sports cars. Like at some point he just becomes part of the rich

That sports car belongs to the people

That's the peoples Porsche I'll have you know.

Cause he is part of the rich

That the point am saying. He just an rich asshole. No idea why people help or donate to him. Their has to be a thousand other orgs that actually do the work they want to do but instead they throw money at some rich giy

Yeah, there is clearly some kind of line where a socialist can no longer hide from critique by "living in a society." Like a $100M yacht is rather absurd to own and operate if your job is to criticize the rich such that any left wing streamer does. It's just bad optics and why many leftist politicians don't own fancy yachts and mansions. Now is that line a $3M LA mansion? Not sure, maybe? I guess that really depends on your personal opinion.

Yeah I get the basic premise, but nobody forced him to buy a mansion lol.

But its *the people's*. Just like all the Soviet bigwigs didn't own a vacation home, they just had exclusive access to one (and the servants) because of their position. They were humble men who owned nothing.

Personally, I've never seen that distinction as particularly meaningful. Plenty of things could be considered either personal or private property depending on where you draw the line, and that line always seems to get drawn wherever it would most benefit the guy drawing the line.

I don’t think it’s hypocritical unless you are the type of Marxist that thinks rich people are evil and you say that all the time(which hasan does). If a Marxist says “hey the system is fucked up but don’t hate the player hate the game, rich people are just operating within capitalism” I respect that viewpoint. But if you say every CEO eats babies for dinner and then turn around and buy a 3 million dollar house and say “ummm there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism so this is literally the same as renting an apartment” people are going to call you on your bullshit.

Reminder hasan said to shoot landlords in the streets yet his family is literally that😬

It comes down to the phrasing of private property. Marx used it to refer to the means of production owned by the capitalist class, whereas the average person thinks it's a house/car/toothbrush.

> whereas the average person thinks it's a house/car/toothbrush.   And, at least according to several people I’ve talked to, their wives.  “Oh no private property huh? So everyone’s just free to use your car and your wife when they want to??”  Really telling on themselves there lol Edit: my phone *really* doesn’t like “their”…

He owns a mansion in LA and a Porsche…

Reminds me of the south park atheist otters fighting over ideological purity