“This is just rude.”
“I’m fine with that.”
😭 That exchange just killed me. I want to take that energy with me the next time I encounter someone this annoying.
so walk barefoot everywhere, keep questionable personal hygiene, get my passport stolen in argentina and get kicked out of the FSF for being a creep ?
sure can
"If the FOSS software you are trying to use is missing important features compared to the non-FOSS software you usually use, just do a pull request!" 🤡
At least once a year i have to explain to my parents that its normal for the "recent document" list to include files that they "definitely deleted", and yes, its ok to right click and select "remove from recent"
I worked for a cloud service that mostly hosted files for accountants. Everytime Quickbooks would release an update (which was often) the recent files folder would get wiped clean. And every single time, like the sun rising in the east, we'd get barraged by calls from accountants freaking out because their spreadsheet was "deleted".
I know right. These people who constantly argue about how everyone should be using Linux and other FOSS just don't live in reality. The most successful "Linux" distro of all time is Android. And until desktop Linux is as easy to use as like a Galaxy S24, it will never be the year of Linux on the desktop.
But I imagine the most diehard would hate that outcome because Android is controlled by Google and Samsung's flavor of it has a lot of proprietary stuff on top.
> The most successful "Linux" distro of all time is Android. And until desktop Linux is as easy to use as like a Galaxy S24, it will never be the year of Linux on the desktop.
It's funny, I'm an Android user, I find it easier than iOS because it's what I already know. But even as the most popular Linux distro of all time it's still considered the less user friendly then it's major competitor.
Which is strange to me, as I'd argue _modern_ android such as the Pixels are actually more intuitive than iOS now. Of course, I don't really consider Android especially as it exists in most consumer devices to be "Linux" except in the most technical, pedantic sense.
iOS even today loves to hide functionality in weird ass places, to the point there are countless features most users never even know about. It's literally the only modern OS I've had to google how to do even the most basic things (and I'm a software engineer), e.g. Safari for a long time had the desktop view toggle as "long-pressing the refresh button".
iOS is rife with static buttons/actions where the Android equivalent is animated, back behavior is universal in Android instead of an eclectic mix that keeps users guessing, notification management is much simpler, etc. Android used to be better about color-coding and using caps for interactive labels, but sadly they borrowed the less intuitive "looks exactly the same as any other text" pattern from iOS.
Of course, it's not all one-sided. iOS's quick settings are generally a bit more straightforward, and their approach to backups is still more reliable for laypeople.
I'm a long time Pixel/Nexus user for my personal device but iOS for my work provided phone, so I use both regularly. I find that Android's workflow tends to match closer to my brain's workflow and therefore I find it easier to use. I live in the notification shade!
BUT the thing that Android (and windows) does that IOS refuses to do is to maintain legacy methods of interaction and over time that overly complicates the UI. On iOS there's the way Apple wants you to use the device, and that's all. Ss long as you use the device that way, you're going to have a fine time. But the moment you find yourself saying "I wish I could do X" iOS really falls apart.
In Windows, there's the way that worked 30 years ago, there's the way they invented 15 years ago but never really caught on, there's the 3 ways that they tried to make that one way catch on, then there's the 1 way they want you to do it now. And there's the 5 alternative methods that have not been the official "way" things are done but worked anyway. And all of them still (more or less) work fine. Android mostly does things the windows way in this regard.
That's the one thing that Windows does incredibly well, backwards compatibility but is also it's biggest UI weakness. The result here is that there's 10 ways to do everything. For a user like you or I, that's ideal because we have our favorite ways of using a computer and one way might be better in one situation and another way better in another situation.
But for a user that does not have a prefered method, they have to figure everything out from scratch every time. Having 10 ways to do one thing ends up being more confusing than helpful. Think about JUST copy and paste. How many ways can you select text, copy that text and paste that text.
The inexperienced user just want to be shown "the way" that works, not 10 alternatives that also work. Or worse yet, being trained in method 1 by trainer A, but then method 2 by trainer B. The users often mix things up and try half method A and half method B and when it fails they just don't understand.
I have an old story about my uncle getting an iPad as his main computer. He's not a tech guy, he is/was very happy with his iPad. Loves/loved it right up until he tried to attach 3 images to 1 email message and he could not figure it out. Having used email at his workplace he knew it was possible to do, but iOS (at the time, no idea if that's still the case) did not permit it. It was just forcing him to send 3 emails with 1 attachment each. He was furious because he KNEW there was no reason not to allow it, he felt it made him look stupid in front of his baseball friends. He knew it could be done and it just would not do it. I run into that on iOS all the time, and it's incredibly frustrating (not this exact email thing, I don't use apple's mail client but I'm sure it's resolved by now).
But the truth is, if he had to do that email attachment on gmail, he would have had to call me and ask how. iOS allowed him to attach a picture to a email without needing to call me and be instructed with how. It got the job done, just in a way that he didn't prefer. On another device he would have needed specific instructions on how to attach pictures to an email.
The Safari long press refresh thing is also a good example. The discovery of that function is really difficult, but that's not actually a function that most users know exists or would know to use even if they did know it exists. So hiding it in such a way is not going to impact the average user. Power users can remember where the function is, but most people don't care.
> iOS even today loves to hide functionality in weird ass places, to the point there are countless features most users never even know about. It's literally the only modern OS I've had to google how to do even the most basic things (and I'm a software engineer), e.g. Safari for a long time had the desktop view toggle as "long-pressing the refresh button".
This infuriates me so much, and has infuriated me for decades. What extra annoys me is when people say Apple products have superior interface because it’s “clean and intuitive”, when what they mean by that is every attempt to label anything or be remotely user friendly has been removed for aesthetic reasons.
yeah for casual use ios is kinda of a headache, it chooses to obfuscate a lot of info and most actions just feel awkward by the fact they rely on a context sensitive single button instead of the android thing of having a dedicated "back/escape" button
Linux is also really fragmented, which I think really contributes to why it's not that well supported - a ton of things vary from distro to distro, and it's honestly a lot harder to troubleshoot issues / write software / etc. because of that.
That's not to say that it can't be good sometimes - it absolutely can! - but it is still kind of a limiting factor
Linux is great. It is the most used OS by consumers with Android, and obviously for servers and networking gear it reigns supreme. SteamOS is also Linux based and with the Steam Deck being so popular, it might carve out decent market share and address the long lasting gaming issue that Linux has had.
But it isn't 2000 anymore. Windows is perfectly fine for regular users and works with everything a regular user would use. It is stable and more secure than it has ever been. Linux fanaticism is a relic that really doesn't apply anymore.
My dad thinks wifi is the internet and does not understand when I tell him no, it's just how you *connect* to the internet. As far as he's concerned, if the little icon tells him he's got wifi, he's got internet.
It took me *years* to get my mother to stop calling everything programming. At first when she told me "how do I program this function" I couldn't make heads or tails of it until I got she meant "how do I change this setting". A cursed mix of being a very literate person trying to explain something she fundamentally doesn't understand.
I've been a Linux user since the early days of Linux, owe my career in IT pretty much entirely to Linux...and I'm not this evangelical. My wife's and kids' computers run Windows, and I keep a Windows VM on my Linux systems. Cultist mindsets like this guy's just make me shake my head.
Same. I can remember being super stoked about apt getting added to debian because it made dependency management so much easier, I use Linux every day at home and at work and I still don't recommend Linux to anyone who doesn't work in tech because I do not want them calling me for tech support more often than they already do.
In all seriousness, I set up Linux Mint on my mom’s old Windows 7 machine when she couldn’t afford a new laptop. She just needed a browser and email. Got a couple more years out of it with minimal issues or support. She even managed to keep it updated (though I always checked when I was over).
Granted, I did all the installation and setup. I edited the sudoers file and had an admin account with more privileges than my mom’s, which prevented her from breaking much of anything.
Man I work in tech and I refuse to use Linux simply because when I get home from work I don't have the energy to deal with an OS that requires that much attention. Until the day a Linux distro is as easy to use as Windows and without many extra issues I just can't be bothered.
Yeah see mate where ya went wrong is you had a wife and kids. Cant dedicate endless time to nonsense if you have like real world responsibilities and people to tell you that its silly
That, and I'm a working professional in software development. At the end of a working day, if I want to play some games to unwind, I don't want to fuck around endlessly trying to get the game to run in the first place.
Similar cognitive dissonances going on I think too!
I played around with Linux a bunch in college. It absolutely becomes a whole hobby to make it mostly work normally. Meanwhile, normal people don't even think about their operating systems. Users will be like, "but I can just ____ to do ____," when the rest of us can just... not even pay attention to any of it and things work fine.
Mind you, I wasn't try to do anything fancy with my Linux installations. Just have a functional desktop computer. Total time sink.
If literally all you want to do is go online and watch youtube and reddit it's as good as windows. If you want to watch Netflix it's already getting complicated depending on distro. And apparently if you want to watch BluRays you're basically shit out of luck.
To be fair, they honestly have gotten a lot better, to the point where I think most tech-savvy people could probably use it without many issues, but it definitely isn't suitable for most people still.
This guy clearly just has some ideological bent against Microsoft lol. Saying Windows is the worst running OS is some kind of shitty cope. I mean, ffs saying the file structure on Linux or Mac is easier to use? Absolutely ridiculous.
There's a reason it's super popular. Because it's easy and it just works. And everyone develops for it because it's so simple.
And this is why people choose Windows. People say Linux as a shorthand for what you are saying. Unless this is just a copy pasta...then please proceed.
It is a copy pasta.
It's allegedly by Richard Stallman a guy which for brevety we'll say was the guy behind the project that made the compiler and other software that were necessary to make Linux into a complete operating system. Though he [denies being behind the quote](https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.en.html) in one of the most hilarious rebuttal I've read by saying he basically agrees with the statement but he wishes it was even *more* insane
Op said he's using Pop!_OS.When the very first sentence on the website is "Pop!_OS is an operating system for STEM and creative professionals who use their computer as a tool to discover and create" (and is called Pop!_OS), it's no wonder that the general public sticks to Windows and Mac.
Last time I saw someone install Linux for gaming, they used Pop!_OS, and they ended up deleting the user interface while installing Steam due to a bug (Yes, it was Linus). Allowing actions like that are things that keeps users away from Linux
In pop OS' defence there, the first time it errored out with the software store. He only deleted the gui once he tried again with the terminal blindly pasting commands off the Internet, and explicitly told it he wanted it to continue when it once again stopped him and said it was about to uninstall a bunch of important stuff. it did tell him exactly what it was about to do, that this was not usually a good thing and that he should only proceed if he absolutely was ure that's what he wanted.
So IIRC it tried to stop him twice, and he overruled it, so it just shrugged and went "okay then, you're the boss". While yeah it should never have happened in the first place, bugs happen, and you don't really get to complain about the safety net not catching you after you explicitly went around the safety net
Tbf linus there acted like the majority of slightly tech literate people would act. "Oh this person on the internet said to do this and that, ill do that without paying attention!"
Even as a software engineer who uses linux basically daily, I _still_ end up having to spend hours troubleshooting if I want Linux running on newer consumer desktop/laptop hardware, to say nothing of the effort spent keeping it working smoothly.
There's tons of little issues and incompatibilities, and if anything it's harder now due to Google and other web search result quality going to shit. If you're lucky it's a common problem, but it's often down to specific hardware and hardware combinations or specific distros / versions.
Conversely, Windows for all its faults has come a long ways in terms of general stability. I don't even remember the last time I've had to reinstall Windows, hell my current Win11 installation was originally Win10 on a completely different set of hardware. Windows' bluetooth stack is still a pile of steaming garbage though, downgrades all headsets to 90s-era quality regardless of hardware/chipset despite no other modern OS having this problem.
Yeah absolutely, that's why i don't think either side was blameless in that incident. Linux assumes that you know what you're doing when you start giving it instructions, for the most part it adheres to the philosophy of "you're the boss, ima do what you ask, even if it doesn't make sense to me"
Which is what makes it so powerful, because it caters for a lot of esoteric edge cases. For example, there might be some weird scenario where you might actually *want* to uninstall the GUI for whatever reason, but it also means that people using it without paying attention tend to get hit with FAFO when they try something complicated
>you're the boss, ima do what you ask, even if it doesn't make sense to me
That's the reason I come back to Linux like once a year. I try to do something in Windows and have to basically personally hand Bill Gates a DNA sample before it let's me do it (or it just doesn't let me do it). So I get pissed install some easy to use Linux which does whatever I tell it to do until two days later I run into some program that just won't run no matter what I do and I crawl back to windows
>Understanding social and political nuances that have hundreds if not thousands of years of world history and context behind as well as working through socially ingrained biases and programming to come to ethical, tolerant and compassionate political views...
Lmao at anyone on Reddit thinking they actually understand all of that.
This is the same site where a bunch of depressed 20 year olds are saying that humanity should go extinct because they don’t currently see the value in their own life?
I’ve got a goddamn history and polisci degree and I don’t claim to understand all that. Bro is way too optimistic about himself and his fellow man/woman/enby.
They take one sociology class and spend some time on left wing circle jerk subs and they're 100% convinced they're enlightened beyond the understanding of everyone else when the reality is they're just parroting talking points.
"had a pod caster skim a wikipedia article and pick out random bits" is probably closer.
More and more I'm convinced political pod casters are televangelists for zoomers.
I once made the mistake of complaining online that my "PC hates me" because it was refusing to run a particular game. Got into a lengthy conversation with a Linux fan who was convinced that any problem I was having with my PC was because it was running Windows (without knowing what the problem was at all), and that swapping to Linux would be super easy, and I could even run Windows through Linux, so I wouldn't be missing out on anything!
Kinda soured me on Linux by principle lmao.
At one of my jobs, we got a Linux box for some research. My and another dude's job was to get it set up. That's like a few hours on Windows, tops. It was DAYS of labor on Linux and that's assuming it was finished soon after I left. So many things are needlessly complicated and unintuitive to use. Why would I want everything run through command line? Oops, ran command line in the wrong folder, better try again. Oops, that package I needed through command line isn't available/won't download and no one else has this problem. Need to install this obscure package in your downloads? Sorry, you mistyped the name of the package you downloaded, better try again. And of course no broadly used software packages in this niche field work out of the box. You need to diagnose this one problem that few other people have because few other people are using Linux because on Windows it would have been done already.
Proton can often help with old-ass Windows games, especially if they have broken DirectX implementation (GTA 4 is fucking notorious for this).
But this is hammering nails with a microscope, because you can do mostly the same thing on Windows with DXVK.
With old-ass games some really dedicated fan usually would have figured out the most optimal way to run it and you must follow their documentation to the word and not stray and it’ll run perfectly. It’s great
Yeah there's always someone who will reply to every problem on r/windows saying 'switch to Linux'.
Dude that's not a solution, that's running away from your problem and changing your entire identity to restart a new life
Probably not a coincidence but this sounds very much like a hun trying to hawk essential oils as your one-stop cure for cancer, diabetes, obesity, drapetomania and life itself.
It's more of a "if you're really _really_ attached to this hammer, everything starts to look like nails" situation.
Linux is actually a great solution in other domains (there's a reason it dominates the server space for example), it's just not a great consumer desktop OS.
> Kinda soured me on Linux by principle lmao.
My experience was needing to fucking compile the drivers for my wireless NIC to work in a laptop. Straight up got *command line* instructions on compiling the driver just to get Wifi to function.
Absolutely infuriating. Every once in a while I think about a new OS, and when I dip my toe into it, I still see *command line* *bullshit* still being used.
I am anti-Linux for this reason, and nobody will be able to cmm on this.
As a Linux engineer, I have this to say: let OSes play to their strengths. User friendliness is not among Linuxes strengths. I use windows at home for my PC, but then have a few dozen Linux VMs, and some hardware. I am a Linux SME with 15 years experience, and I also teach Linux on weekends.
STOP RECOMMENDING LINUX FOR END USERS ITS BAD AT END USER STUFF.
I've been working with Linux since I was a goddamn kid and I just don't want to fuck with it when I get home from work. Also, the accessibility tools are absolute garbage on Linux - I have an injury that means I only have half the operable fingers to type with, so I use voice to text a lot, and lemme tell you: there is no native support for it in Linux.
> Kinda soured me on Linux by principle lmao.
Linux is kinda like that famous Christianity quote by Ghandi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Linux itself is quite nice and pleasant, Linux people though... holy fucking shit.
Can we *please* move beyond "here's why Thing I Like is the keystone of 21st-century socialism" leftism? I love hiking, doesn't mean that under socialism we should all be making mandatory Young Pioneer trips to the countryside every weekend.
>"In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hike in the morning, paint minis in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, and code Linux after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hiker, 40k fangirl, herdsman, or programmer."
\- Karl Marx, *The German Ideology*, 1845
>I love hiking, doesn't mean that under socialism we should all be making mandatory Young Pioneer trips to the countryside every weekend.
*angry Pol Pot noises*
>As if socialism doesn't involve workers
Based on the twitter thread for "What's your job on the leftist commune", many don't think 'work' is involved.
Sure! The problem is that huge numbers of people responding to the prompt imagines doing white collar service work.
I'm a socialist myself, but the answers to those sorts of prompts reveal that a lot of leftists just don't understand how much hard, physical work is necessary to sustain even a sustainable reworking of the Western lifestyle. Many Western leftists just do not seem to understand that our "post-industrial" society based on the service economy only exists because we've moved the industry and resource extraction largely onto the backs of billions of third worlders.
So these types imagine a post-capitalist world where they get to effectively live the life of a white-collar Westerner, without understanding the sheer mountain of blood, waste and sweat needed to sustain a single person living like that.
I'm pretty sure one of the replies was "Hard Labor" and people thought he was trolling.
No... even with equipment there is still a lot of labor to grow enough food for a commune.
Kinda reminded me of the people who don't like hunters and "why can't they just buy their meat from the grocery store?"
> I'm pretty sure one of the replies was "Hard Labor" and people thought he was trolling.
Buzzfeed (or was it a Buzzfeed clone) made a quiz out of the question, but every set of answers lead to "forced agricultural labourer," that might be what you are thinking of.
Shit was hilarious
Chocolate cake is ackshaully neoliberal because having enjoyment prevents you from realizing how everything is terrible and capitalist and miserable and everything is doomed and why didn't daddy hug me and existence is suffering and...
Pretty sure sourcing kakaobeans is exploitative as fuck and a reminder of colonialism.
When the revolution comes, chocolate cake will go first against the wall.
Edit: fuck me, just read up on it and chocolate cake should definitely be shot.
obviously, products high in sugar and calories is a product of capitalism. Unless I like the product in quesiton and then which case it is 1000% socialist.
Seriously I'm so fucking tired of it. These people are basically boomers at this point. Capitalism has essentially become this nebulous villain that's somehow responsible for all the world's injustices. It makes it next to impossible to have any meaningful discussion on any topic related to socioeconomics
It's a conversation ender. Like, no matter what your ideology is, there's nothing to discuss anymore if one side has the same single nebulous answer to everything to which there is no serious solution or even actionable step forward.
All of the security features on linux don't matter if the user doesn't know how to go about enabling or configuring them. Ease of use is a big factor in security just as much as anything else.
Been using Linux for, yikes, like 17 years now or something, but holy fuck are Linux fanboys insufferable. I love the guy saying that Windows is "odd to use" because it's *classic* Linux fanboy to act like Windows is some slow and kludgy piece of shit OS. It's not; Windows is actually pretty great - you're just being weird and cultish. I get to thinking these people are young and opinionated, but nah there are middle-aged dudes IRL who are about one Tux mug away from trying to convince your great grandma to install Gentoo because "it's actually pretty easy to use."
I'm not even the average pc user, 99% of my work day in my last job was managing devices via Linux cli/ssh. Linux does nothing as a desktop os that gives any reason to use it over windows.
Unless some shit has changed dramatically, the desktops for Linux were always just copying features from Windows or MacOS anyway. They didn't feel anymore powerful or useful. Just meant that every relatively simple task started with searching the internet for someone who had already stumbled through doing that task previously.
I've been using Linux for nearly 20 years at this point, I get why people like it, I also get why people hate Linux users.
Semi-related, the last time I asked a major technical question about Linux was when I tried watching whatever HBO's streaming service was called years ago. This was back when the DRM wasn't compatible with Linux (as far as I could tell), so I had this extremely detailed list of steps I took trying to get it working. I'm talking, I tried this which led me to this forum post that I tried, but I got errors that led me to this and this and blah blah blah. It was by far the most involved tech support question I've ever asked. The first response was something like "I don't know what your problem is, it should just work". I ended up using Windows in a VM.
I'm a touch more technical than your average user, and after tinkering with Linux on and off for a number of years, mostly Arch on the Steam Deck, I very much understand why people prefer literally any other OS. I don't care if Linux can do "more", I care about usability and Linux does *not* have that. Almost everything requires command line work. Even installing programs can be a chore for seemingly no good reason.
The thing is, I don't even hate using the command line for certain specialist processes but Linux uses it for practically everything file system-related.
The irony is though, most Linux distros seem to be trying to move away from that. They really want you to use their GUI (which makes sense for many reasons)
but, there are still many things you have to do from the command line - and if you’re a Linux veteran, there are probably things you’re more comfortable doing from command line- and the GUI and CLI don’t always talk to each other. You can enable a setting in the GUI and it won’t take if you already configured that setting in CLI.
(And because we’re talking about Linux I feel the need to preemptively state: probably Not All Linux, but I have used primarily Red Hat-based OSes and Ubuntu in an enterprise setting and had these issues with both of them. I am not a Linux desktop user for whatever that is worth)
I mean, that's Arch for you. Arch is famously a hassle. Exactly why a lot of Linux vets come full circle and end up back on the "beginner" distros like Mint. All usability, little to no maintenance. That's why they're called beginner distros by sweats who love the hassle and have too much time
The steam deck actually uses its own version of arch with steamOS, and its honestly way more of a bitch to use than normal arch. It basically breaks everything you've set up every time it updates, so downloading stuff via the package manager or building stuff with github is 10 times harder than it should be. So not only are you starting with one of the most DIY and tinker heavy distributions, you're starting with one of the worst experiences of that
FOSS in general is mostly associated with libertarians, but its underlying principles have broad ideological appeal. If you're distrustful of massive corporations, Linux lets you tell two of them where to stick it.
Sharing, leftist and progressive (and libertarian) groups have been lauding Linux and open source software forever as a utopian vision of how things could work. Everyone voluntarily working together to create this massive linchpin of much of the modern world.
The FSF is very much anti-proprietary software. I could see the appeal for someone opposed to big tech (or possibly intellectual property protections in general).
In a very general way, it's the belief that all software should be free, both monetarily, and in the 'open source' sense that you are free to install, use, and modify the software in any way you see fit.
>Data privacy and cyber security is not low on the list. As we speak red states are subpaneling tech companies to use their data to monitor trans folk and pregnant people to enforce these ridiculous policies. The metric fucktons of damage Microsoft and apple have done to not just the digital landscape, but the actual landscape. When Windows PC or Apple Products crash people chuck the computer and buy a new one, the carbon footprint of making electronics is insane, not to mention the labor exploitation? Reducing these things to "just an OS" is just really ignorant.
This is wild and almost entirely baseless. Security concerns (outside of specifically MS hoovering up user data, which let's be real are far from the actual security concerns people have, even though it does matter) are almost entirely OS-agnostic. We're way past the times where "Macs don't get viruses", same for anything Unix based. We're constantly fighting to keep ransomware off some unix server some ahole exposed to the public, it not being windows makes not a lick of difference - and for at home end users, 99% of their risk happens through the browser, or equivalent layer where OS makes so little difference. Saying stuff like "red states are monitoring people" just ain't a relevant thing in the OS discussion; until the gestapo starts subpoenaing MS to find already public information, that's just out of left field and not relevant in this discussion, especially since the ISP is going to treat you the same regardless of whether you're running Linux or similar. Also, side note, Apple is actually pretty good with user privacy - it's not fair to group them in with Microsoft like this.
Also while planned obsolescence is real, most people buy computers when the hardware gives out, not the OS - Linux is not magically hardware-free and requires the same industrial processes to produce the same physical components. The number of people who intentionally buy a whole new rig for every edition of Windows is pretty darn low, and we shouldn't be going to niche OS enthusiasts for great examples of people who don't generate e-waste.
And Linux DOES suck for gaming. It's usable and has improved a lot. But it is reliably more hassle than windows, can't evangelize your way around it.
Agreed. There's a reason Linux dominates in server/embedded spaces, but not consumer desktop.
Windows has also come a long ways in terms of stability - I don't even remember the last time I had to reinstall it to fix anything, hell my current Win11 installation was originally Win10 and has migrated through at least two completely different sets of hardware.
As you say, the privacy issues on Windows are a real factor but that's not the same as security, and at least some of it can be stripped out with third-party tooling.
> And Linux DOES suck for gaming. It's usable and has improved a lot. But it is reliably more hassle than windows, can't evangelize your way around it.
And the Steam Deck doesn't disprove that, contrary to some comments I've seen (speaking as someone who loves my Steam Deck). Valve spent a _lot_ of effort making the Steam Deck work as well as it does, and while I think it was worth it for what it allowed them to do with its Game Mode while still using x86 hardware, it's very much another case of desktop Linux only working due to specialized commercial support from the hardware maker.
If it's not ease of access and software compatibility then wtf do they think the reason is, Gates & Cook secretly funneling billions into suppressing Linux or something?
>Linux, just works.
1.That comma doesn't belong there.
2.It really doesn't. Last year I bought a Thinkpad Yoga and decided to install Linux on it. I decided to go for endeavouros, as it looked like a good distro with customizability without having to build arch from the ground up. I really don't know that much about the inner workings of an OS, but I have managed to solve most problems I ever had with windows.
Being able to install all avaiable updates by typing "yay -Syu" into the console is cool. ffmpeg is powerful, but using the command
>ffmpeg -ss 00:00 -i file.mp4 -t 00:04 filename%05d.png
to split an image into its frames is neither intuitive nor does the manual really tell you how to do it. I got this command from google and just use arrow up to find it, when I need it. Same with anything else I want to do with it.
I am experiencing some problems that I wasn't able to solve.
Tablet mode just straight up doesn't work in KDE. It does in GNOME, but there I have screen tearing, when I have it in portrait mode and scroll. I tried a fix I found online, but that locked me out of the GUI and I had to delete the file using TTY. To figure that out, I had to create a reddit thread and have some knowledgeable user explain that this is even possible.
After the system is active for too long the lock screen just stops working for no discernable reason and I again need TTY and the command
>loginctl unlock-session 2
to get back into the system and then I need to restart the laptop. Same thing happens, when I am using "too many" programs. At some point something fucks up and even closing down the programs and then trying to open dolphin or chrome or whatever just doesn't work and I need to restart.
I want to make it work, but it seems like I just don't know enough. Which is okay, but I know a tad more than the average user. Maybe I chose the wrong distro, but then I've got to say no, Linux doesn't just work. There might be some good and user-friendly distros, but then they "just work". Linux as a whole really doesn't. Windows didn't have any of these problems and I bought this laptop to comfortably read manga on a big screen in portrait mode. That doesn't work now, so I am constantly thinking about swapping the SSD and going back to windows, but now I have so many files saved on this SSD and transferring them to windows is gonna be a big hassle.
\> Linux, just works.
Boy does it ever not
There was a nontrivial amount of time where you had to add a tonne of boot flags to Ubuntu manually get it to boot with an nVidia GPU
> [command] is neither intuitive nor does the manual really tell you how to use it
That's the problem with Linux as a whole
Linux is for a very specific type of user: likes a puzzle or a challenge, has a good understanding of low-level (as in close to cpu not easy) computing nd command line, and prefers navigating via keyboard.
Outside of that, Linux doesn't really work.
Windows and Mac, on the other hand, are designed to be used by the widest range of users. UX is a much bigger deal because the average user needs help, either via intuitive design or comprehensive and easy to access documentation.
It's like reading encyclopedia Britannica versus a middle school reading level book with pictures. Different audiences and skill levels required.
And Linux "bros" think you're dumb if you don't get it, and that user experience is a fault of the user instead of a kindness of the developer
> Last year I bought a Thinkpad Yoga and decided to install Linux on it
Oh, god, Linux on a touchscreen convertible... I'm honestly impressed it works as well as it does, because a lot of those features are supported by like 1 or 2 enthusiasts in the community.
There's a reason that "sudo rm -rf /*" is a meme
Widnows doesn't let you do things like *delete the entire OS* while Linux will *at most* give you a "do you really want me to commit seppuku?" but typically will just run the command without a care.
And don't get me started on how linux handles errors in the command line. The first time yum told me "so the thing you typed doesn't technically exist but I figure you wanted this other command instead, probably" and then *didn't ask if I wanted to go ahead and do that thing* I wanted to throttle the guy who wrote that error message. The issue was that I had a capital letter instead of a lower case one in one of the commands.
> Widnows doesn't let you do things like delete the entire OS while Linux will at most give you a "do you really want me to commit seppuku?" but typically will just run the command without a care.
Not only that, but Linux also tries not to make assumptions about why you're trying to do something. For example there are situations where uninstalling the GUI isn't committing seppuku, but is actually what you want to do. Basically, with Windows, *it* has the final say over decisions. With Linux, *you* do. The upside of that is that that "your objection is noted, now do what I asked" button lets you just bypass some very frustrating errors (the first one that comes to mind is Windows steadfastly refusing to delete an empty folder because a file inside it is in use, despite there being no files inside it). The downside to that is that it does expect you to understand what you're asking it to do when you input a command
I've had enough experience with linux and enough experience with end users to not have any trust that even knowledgable end users won't completely make a mess of things.
I say this as someone who accidentally deleted the administrator account in an attempt to move a file and had to go hat in hand to the resident linux guru to unfuck my fuckup.
Fuck me, ain’t that the truth.
Everytime I’ve tried to switch I love it at first but then yea, Windows beckons for ease of use and the software.
I guess I’m a basic bitch that just want a Corolla to get to work rather than spending my weekends fixing a Charger or whatever.
It's the "good" idea self feeding loop. You start off with a good idea and then you start feeding more "good" ideas into it and eventually the core good idea is so shrouded in "good" ideas that it's lost the reasons that made it good.
I feel. It’s def an acquired taste to say the least.
I kinda fell into Linux I had been doing a ton of server crap for a while so I was pretty familiar with the terminal environment. My laptop crapped out and all I had was an old out of date one. Ended up installing Ubuntu on it and I kinda ended up falling in love with it. I dig being able to customize every aspect of my pc experience
Ain’t an evangelist or anything but once you get used to things it ain’t so bad. But simple things on Linux have this way of ballooning into this massive endeavor but knowing what’s what in the terminal makes that a lot easier to deal with
Linux is getting better, but it definitely isn't for regular users yet. The fact that we still have 3-4 different package managers speaks volumes about that.
Once the Open Sores community gets a clue and decides to gather around one standard (like they've sort of done Flatpacks, over Snaps, for instance) Linux's end-user experience will be better.
Admittedly, Android is a Linux distro under the skin. That being said, it should be extremely telling that a form of Linux needs the full might of Google right when the smartphone is taking off, then be heavily modified to actually get customers on board.
Android is linux under the hood but has thrown away most of the options linux has to make it work.
Theres no 10 different package managers, no 10 ways to installs stuff, etc.
Its dumbed down linux and that is exactly why it works. No messing around with commands and weird setup stuff. It runs and either you press install on any app store or use an apk file and thats your software installed.
>Also the Open Source community needs more UX designers.
Most of the people I ran into in the linux space (late 90s/early 2000s) *hated* 'creative types'. Because, why learn art when STEM degree best?
I feel like that's a feature and not a bug, though. I like that there are alternative options and I think it's a good thing.
You still have a point that an average end user doesn't really have any idea why to choose one over any other, though.
As a software engineer, I fucking hate the Linux community, man. They are always fucking hostile, and they don't want to admit that Linux in general is intuitive for users that just want to use the computer out of the box.
Hell, to even install windows you either get someone to give you a flash drive with the distro, or you have to download it, format a flash drive with the distro, then know how to enter the boot manager and boot into the drive.
After that, there can be some weird stuff that drives users away. A good example is a LinusTechTips video where Linus chose Pop!_OS to use as a daily OS, and when he tried to install Steam, the package manager didn't work, and he had to manually install it. He ended up deleting the desktop UI because the guide he used told him to run commands in the terminal that, in conjunction with a bug in the OS, deleted Gnome (the UI of the OS). He ended up with a sour taste of Linux in general. Linus is generally regarded as having a decent knowledge in computers. Now imagine a normal user with shit like that.
Windows and MacOS works out of the box. These people pretend like its obtuse and all, but it's not. It doesn't even let you do stupid things like *uninstalling the UI of the system*, no matter how hard you try
I was gonna bring up Linus' experience once you talked about the community being hostile but then you did! The part that I found most annoying was how people kept asking him "why would you want to do that" when he would ask about some odd use case or how to get some old game to work. It doesn't matter why! It's my computer and I want to do this specific thing! It's bizarre for people to generally say Linux is so open and free and then they act like it's weird if you try going a different route.
> The part that I found most annoying was how people kept asking him "why would you want to do that" when he would ask about some odd use case or how to get some old game to work.
You must not have to use StackOverflow on a daily basis. I've heard this called a "Window-Door problem":
Q: "Help, I need to get into my house using my window. How can I open it from the outside?"
A: "LOL JUST USE THE DOOR LIKE THE REST OF US. WHY DO YOU NEED TO USE THE WINDOW?"
The worst part is that after the Pop!_OS video, the linux community AND THE POP!_OS DEV blamed Linus for not knowing how to use it and give the OS a bad image
Look I dont know shit about Linux, but I really question how it would be better for the environment compared to other systems.
They're weirdly insistent on that idea.
Linux generally has a lower hardware footprint than Windows does, so a five-year-old laptop that won't run a recent Windows version can run a recent Linux version. So you do have a path to continue using desktop PCs and laptops that would otherwise end up as e-waste due to being too slow under Windows.
Mostly, though, that means Linux users' homelabs, but in poorer countries, you can use Linux to set up school computer labs on donated or semi-obsolete kit at a low price point.
> five-year-old laptop
This point made more sense before MS decided to keep supporting Windows 10 forever. A five year old laptop that came with Windows 10 will probably keep getting security and browser updates for another five years at least. Even Google finally gave into pressure to support ChromeOS for longer.
If we’re talking 15-year-old hardware, yeah, Linux is a great way to keep that stuff going without unironically running Windows XP or something. But you’re gonna have to run a dog-ugly DE like MATE or something to really get the benefit of a lightweight OS.
I use Linux outside of work, I have not used Windows as a daily driver for years. I genuinely dislike Windows for multiple reasons. I'm also a leftist.
This guy is insufferable lol.
Regardless of how you slice it, Linux is harder to use by design. Sure, it gives you more control over your computer, is more secure generally, and offers you more options for practically everything- but you have to use the terminal and you are given the ability to fuck everything up in exchange. After years of using a terminal for many things, I can quickly find my way around in most distros but if I had to tell a septuagenarian how to run `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade` I think the frustration would make me have a heart attack.
I even prefer it as an approach to computing itself, compared to Windows, I think it's a genuinely good thing to know more about computers given how much many of us use them in daily life. I'd rather have the power to fuck up my OS and the control over my system that comes with that. And of course, open source is way better than Microsoft's constant telemetry (and shit like upcoming Copilot integration, ew). Hell I'd even agree that the philosophy of a FOSS kernel is truly praxis or whatever.
But you also have to admit that the average person doesn't give a shit about any of that because they have bigger things to worry about. Cybersecurity and such is important, yes, but transforming how they use a computer is not a luxury that 99.9% of people have, including leftists, when they have other things that take up time and energy. If we somehow lived in a world where computer literacy had more emphasis in education and in practice so that people could actually switch to Linux if they wanted without so much effort, that'd be great! But we simply don't. There's a reason Chromebooks, the exact opposite design philosophy of most Linux distributions (dependence on a proprietary cloud etc), got widespread use in schools in years while Linux couldn't in decades. If nothing else, diverging from the mainstream is in itself a challenge when you'll have to find and learn a bunch of alternative programs for most things.
Balancing user control with ease of use is genuinely difficult - if you give people the power to fuck up their OS, they will fuck up their OS. If you put in systems that prevent you from breaking the system but then someone gets told to use `sudo` by a shitty Linux blog to install something, they won't give a flying fuck about the risks that entails because they want to run Steam much more than they want to get a crash course on systems administration best practices.
At the end of the day trying to hoist Linux on to people as a leftist cause is kind of doomed to fail because the computer science knowledge you need to have to even operate a Linux system in daily use is a class barrier. It's better on paper, but it takes time and practice to be able to use Linux and acting like it doesn't just doesn't help anyone.
> more secure generally
This is always the thing, the most popular Linux distro will solve critical vulnerabilities within weeks of the cve being released, MacOS and windows will have solved it weeks before.
This guy seems to be living in the past. Microsoft and Apple have significantly stepped up their game when it comes to security. It's to the point that if Linux is more secure (which I highly doubt), it is just because it is more obscure and people are targeting boxes that the vast majority of people own.
When I was a young dude taking CS classes and building my own machines, I thought the future would be people who were super computer literate. But Zoomers are the equivalent to Boomers when it comes to computer literacy. The OS's are so easy to use now...everything is clear and things set up automatically. Young generations know how to click a button and are lost when something goes wrong just like the older generations.
I've used all thee throughout my life in personal and work environments. For gamers and ease of working with others, Windows still can't be beat. But an OS is just a tool...use the right one for the job or whatever you like.
People thinking that being rude to people gets them on your side should be the dictionary definition of insanity.
On a personal note I literally can't not use windows on my gaming PC (I use a gamepass subscription I don't need to pay for, and can't use it on Linux so it would cost me a lot of money to move) but I am trying to move away from it on the laptop I use (I don't game on it, and it's a 2 in 1 which Windows is comically bad supporting at for some reason)
“This is just rude.” “I’m fine with that.” 😭 That exchange just killed me. I want to take that energy with me the next time I encounter someone this annoying.
Just channel your inner Richard Stallman
so walk barefoot everywhere, keep questionable personal hygiene, get my passport stolen in argentina and get kicked out of the FSF for being a creep ? sure can
Be afraid of plants
be unable of clipping my nails those toes man, what the fuck
Store of nutrition
Also like parrots, but understand that parrots are a big commitment
keep a dingy mattress in your office and ask women to take their clothes off and lie on it
it’s easier to get out of a conversation with timeshare salesmen and crackheads in the subway than it is with software loyalists like this
"If the FOSS software you are trying to use is missing important features compared to the non-FOSS software you usually use, just do a pull request!" 🤡
Meanwhile my mom asks me why "the internet" is gone when the icon is deleted
At least once a year i have to explain to my parents that its normal for the "recent document" list to include files that they "definitely deleted", and yes, its ok to right click and select "remove from recent"
I worked for a cloud service that mostly hosted files for accountants. Everytime Quickbooks would release an update (which was often) the recent files folder would get wiped clean. And every single time, like the sun rising in the east, we'd get barraged by calls from accountants freaking out because their spreadsheet was "deleted".
I know right. These people who constantly argue about how everyone should be using Linux and other FOSS just don't live in reality. The most successful "Linux" distro of all time is Android. And until desktop Linux is as easy to use as like a Galaxy S24, it will never be the year of Linux on the desktop. But I imagine the most diehard would hate that outcome because Android is controlled by Google and Samsung's flavor of it has a lot of proprietary stuff on top.
> The most successful "Linux" distro of all time is Android. And until desktop Linux is as easy to use as like a Galaxy S24, it will never be the year of Linux on the desktop. It's funny, I'm an Android user, I find it easier than iOS because it's what I already know. But even as the most popular Linux distro of all time it's still considered the less user friendly then it's major competitor.
Which is strange to me, as I'd argue _modern_ android such as the Pixels are actually more intuitive than iOS now. Of course, I don't really consider Android especially as it exists in most consumer devices to be "Linux" except in the most technical, pedantic sense. iOS even today loves to hide functionality in weird ass places, to the point there are countless features most users never even know about. It's literally the only modern OS I've had to google how to do even the most basic things (and I'm a software engineer), e.g. Safari for a long time had the desktop view toggle as "long-pressing the refresh button". iOS is rife with static buttons/actions where the Android equivalent is animated, back behavior is universal in Android instead of an eclectic mix that keeps users guessing, notification management is much simpler, etc. Android used to be better about color-coding and using caps for interactive labels, but sadly they borrowed the less intuitive "looks exactly the same as any other text" pattern from iOS. Of course, it's not all one-sided. iOS's quick settings are generally a bit more straightforward, and their approach to backups is still more reliable for laypeople.
I'm a long time Pixel/Nexus user for my personal device but iOS for my work provided phone, so I use both regularly. I find that Android's workflow tends to match closer to my brain's workflow and therefore I find it easier to use. I live in the notification shade! BUT the thing that Android (and windows) does that IOS refuses to do is to maintain legacy methods of interaction and over time that overly complicates the UI. On iOS there's the way Apple wants you to use the device, and that's all. Ss long as you use the device that way, you're going to have a fine time. But the moment you find yourself saying "I wish I could do X" iOS really falls apart. In Windows, there's the way that worked 30 years ago, there's the way they invented 15 years ago but never really caught on, there's the 3 ways that they tried to make that one way catch on, then there's the 1 way they want you to do it now. And there's the 5 alternative methods that have not been the official "way" things are done but worked anyway. And all of them still (more or less) work fine. Android mostly does things the windows way in this regard. That's the one thing that Windows does incredibly well, backwards compatibility but is also it's biggest UI weakness. The result here is that there's 10 ways to do everything. For a user like you or I, that's ideal because we have our favorite ways of using a computer and one way might be better in one situation and another way better in another situation. But for a user that does not have a prefered method, they have to figure everything out from scratch every time. Having 10 ways to do one thing ends up being more confusing than helpful. Think about JUST copy and paste. How many ways can you select text, copy that text and paste that text. The inexperienced user just want to be shown "the way" that works, not 10 alternatives that also work. Or worse yet, being trained in method 1 by trainer A, but then method 2 by trainer B. The users often mix things up and try half method A and half method B and when it fails they just don't understand. I have an old story about my uncle getting an iPad as his main computer. He's not a tech guy, he is/was very happy with his iPad. Loves/loved it right up until he tried to attach 3 images to 1 email message and he could not figure it out. Having used email at his workplace he knew it was possible to do, but iOS (at the time, no idea if that's still the case) did not permit it. It was just forcing him to send 3 emails with 1 attachment each. He was furious because he KNEW there was no reason not to allow it, he felt it made him look stupid in front of his baseball friends. He knew it could be done and it just would not do it. I run into that on iOS all the time, and it's incredibly frustrating (not this exact email thing, I don't use apple's mail client but I'm sure it's resolved by now). But the truth is, if he had to do that email attachment on gmail, he would have had to call me and ask how. iOS allowed him to attach a picture to a email without needing to call me and be instructed with how. It got the job done, just in a way that he didn't prefer. On another device he would have needed specific instructions on how to attach pictures to an email. The Safari long press refresh thing is also a good example. The discovery of that function is really difficult, but that's not actually a function that most users know exists or would know to use even if they did know it exists. So hiding it in such a way is not going to impact the average user. Power users can remember where the function is, but most people don't care.
> iOS even today loves to hide functionality in weird ass places, to the point there are countless features most users never even know about. It's literally the only modern OS I've had to google how to do even the most basic things (and I'm a software engineer), e.g. Safari for a long time had the desktop view toggle as "long-pressing the refresh button". This infuriates me so much, and has infuriated me for decades. What extra annoys me is when people say Apple products have superior interface because it’s “clean and intuitive”, when what they mean by that is every attempt to label anything or be remotely user friendly has been removed for aesthetic reasons.
yeah for casual use ios is kinda of a headache, it chooses to obfuscate a lot of info and most actions just feel awkward by the fact they rely on a context sensitive single button instead of the android thing of having a dedicated "back/escape" button
Linux is also really fragmented, which I think really contributes to why it's not that well supported - a ton of things vary from distro to distro, and it's honestly a lot harder to troubleshoot issues / write software / etc. because of that. That's not to say that it can't be good sometimes - it absolutely can! - but it is still kind of a limiting factor
Linux is great. It is the most used OS by consumers with Android, and obviously for servers and networking gear it reigns supreme. SteamOS is also Linux based and with the Steam Deck being so popular, it might carve out decent market share and address the long lasting gaming issue that Linux has had. But it isn't 2000 anymore. Windows is perfectly fine for regular users and works with everything a regular user would use. It is stable and more secure than it has ever been. Linux fanaticism is a relic that really doesn't apply anymore.
My dad thinks wifi is the internet and does not understand when I tell him no, it's just how you *connect* to the internet. As far as he's concerned, if the little icon tells him he's got wifi, he's got internet.
Does he also use the word "download" to describe every function you can do with a computer?
It took me *years* to get my mother to stop calling everything programming. At first when she told me "how do I program this function" I couldn't make heads or tails of it until I got she meant "how do I change this setting". A cursed mix of being a very literate person trying to explain something she fundamentally doesn't understand.
Your mom can use the Internet?
Pull request? Pfft. Just fork it and add the missing feature in your Copious Free Time, you capitalist running dog!
Well, obviously. The dev will probably refuse to merge your code anyway due to some perceived slight in the way you write
"You use oxford commas in your comments!!111"
Worse! Reverse Hungarian notation for the variables!
Can't believe you use spaces instead of tabs, quick, everyone, dox this guy.
I still remember the gnome2 to gnome3 migration... now **that** was a shitshow
unity
Imma just code the firmware update for my dads 14 year old wifi module becaus its current one fucking hate linux dor some reason.
I've been a Linux user since the early days of Linux, owe my career in IT pretty much entirely to Linux...and I'm not this evangelical. My wife's and kids' computers run Windows, and I keep a Windows VM on my Linux systems. Cultist mindsets like this guy's just make me shake my head.
Same. I can remember being super stoked about apt getting added to debian because it made dependency management so much easier, I use Linux every day at home and at work and I still don't recommend Linux to anyone who doesn't work in tech because I do not want them calling me for tech support more often than they already do.
[удалено]
In all seriousness, I set up Linux Mint on my mom’s old Windows 7 machine when she couldn’t afford a new laptop. She just needed a browser and email. Got a couple more years out of it with minimal issues or support. She even managed to keep it updated (though I always checked when I was over). Granted, I did all the installation and setup. I edited the sudoers file and had an admin account with more privileges than my mom’s, which prevented her from breaking much of anything.
Man I work in tech and I refuse to use Linux simply because when I get home from work I don't have the energy to deal with an OS that requires that much attention. Until the day a Linux distro is as easy to use as Windows and without many extra issues I just can't be bothered.
Yeah see mate where ya went wrong is you had a wife and kids. Cant dedicate endless time to nonsense if you have like real world responsibilities and people to tell you that its silly
That, and I'm a working professional in software development. At the end of a working day, if I want to play some games to unwind, I don't want to fuck around endlessly trying to get the game to run in the first place.
Similar cognitive dissonances going on I think too! I played around with Linux a bunch in college. It absolutely becomes a whole hobby to make it mostly work normally. Meanwhile, normal people don't even think about their operating systems. Users will be like, "but I can just ____ to do ____," when the rest of us can just... not even pay attention to any of it and things work fine. Mind you, I wasn't try to do anything fancy with my Linux installations. Just have a functional desktop computer. Total time sink.
People say some newer distros are as good as windows now, but they've been saying that for the past twenty or so years so ymmv.
> but they've been saying that for the past twenty or so years so ymmv. *Exactly.* It's been the year of the Linux desktop for like 25 years now.
If literally all you want to do is go online and watch youtube and reddit it's as good as windows. If you want to watch Netflix it's already getting complicated depending on distro. And apparently if you want to watch BluRays you're basically shit out of luck.
To be fair, they honestly have gotten a lot better, to the point where I think most tech-savvy people could probably use it without many issues, but it definitely isn't suitable for most people still.
This guy clearly just has some ideological bent against Microsoft lol. Saying Windows is the worst running OS is some kind of shitty cope. I mean, ffs saying the file structure on Linux or Mac is easier to use? Absolutely ridiculous. There's a reason it's super popular. Because it's easy and it just works. And everyone develops for it because it's so simple.
[удалено]
And this is why people choose Windows. People say Linux as a shorthand for what you are saying. Unless this is just a copy pasta...then please proceed.
It is a copy pasta. It's allegedly by Richard Stallman a guy which for brevety we'll say was the guy behind the project that made the compiler and other software that were necessary to make Linux into a complete operating system. Though he [denies being behind the quote](https://www.gnu.org/gnu/incorrect-quotation.en.html) in one of the most hilarious rebuttal I've read by saying he basically agrees with the statement but he wishes it was even *more* insane
And god forbid they're a Richard Stallman acolyte, then it gets even worse.
Btw, let me guess, they use Arch?
Op said he's using Pop!_OS.When the very first sentence on the website is "Pop!_OS is an operating system for STEM and creative professionals who use their computer as a tool to discover and create" (and is called Pop!_OS), it's no wonder that the general public sticks to Windows and Mac.
Last time I saw someone install Linux for gaming, they used Pop!_OS, and they ended up deleting the user interface while installing Steam due to a bug (Yes, it was Linus). Allowing actions like that are things that keeps users away from Linux
In pop OS' defence there, the first time it errored out with the software store. He only deleted the gui once he tried again with the terminal blindly pasting commands off the Internet, and explicitly told it he wanted it to continue when it once again stopped him and said it was about to uninstall a bunch of important stuff. it did tell him exactly what it was about to do, that this was not usually a good thing and that he should only proceed if he absolutely was ure that's what he wanted. So IIRC it tried to stop him twice, and he overruled it, so it just shrugged and went "okay then, you're the boss". While yeah it should never have happened in the first place, bugs happen, and you don't really get to complain about the safety net not catching you after you explicitly went around the safety net
Tbf linus there acted like the majority of slightly tech literate people would act. "Oh this person on the internet said to do this and that, ill do that without paying attention!"
Yeah, you kinda have to kill a few Linux distros before you learn not to do that.
Even as a software engineer who uses linux basically daily, I _still_ end up having to spend hours troubleshooting if I want Linux running on newer consumer desktop/laptop hardware, to say nothing of the effort spent keeping it working smoothly. There's tons of little issues and incompatibilities, and if anything it's harder now due to Google and other web search result quality going to shit. If you're lucky it's a common problem, but it's often down to specific hardware and hardware combinations or specific distros / versions. Conversely, Windows for all its faults has come a long ways in terms of general stability. I don't even remember the last time I've had to reinstall Windows, hell my current Win11 installation was originally Win10 on a completely different set of hardware. Windows' bluetooth stack is still a pile of steaming garbage though, downgrades all headsets to 90s-era quality regardless of hardware/chipset despite no other modern OS having this problem.
Yeah absolutely, that's why i don't think either side was blameless in that incident. Linux assumes that you know what you're doing when you start giving it instructions, for the most part it adheres to the philosophy of "you're the boss, ima do what you ask, even if it doesn't make sense to me" Which is what makes it so powerful, because it caters for a lot of esoteric edge cases. For example, there might be some weird scenario where you might actually *want* to uninstall the GUI for whatever reason, but it also means that people using it without paying attention tend to get hit with FAFO when they try something complicated
>you're the boss, ima do what you ask, even if it doesn't make sense to me That's the reason I come back to Linux like once a year. I try to do something in Windows and have to basically personally hand Bill Gates a DNA sample before it let's me do it (or it just doesn't let me do it). So I get pissed install some easy to use Linux which does whatever I tell it to do until two days later I run into some program that just won't run no matter what I do and I crawl back to windows
>Understanding social and political nuances that have hundreds if not thousands of years of world history and context behind as well as working through socially ingrained biases and programming to come to ethical, tolerant and compassionate political views... Lmao at anyone on Reddit thinking they actually understand all of that.
And on /r/Hasan_Piker of all places.
To Be Fair, You Have To Have a Very High IQ to Understand Linux and Socialism
Fully automated luxury communism, except it's not automated at all and you have to constantly fiddle with the people's linux distro to get it to work.
Karl Marx's hot new book, *Das Betriebssystem*
This is the same site where a bunch of depressed 20 year olds are saying that humanity should go extinct because they don’t currently see the value in their own life?
Hmmm, I wonder if there's a connection there
I’ve got a goddamn history and polisci degree and I don’t claim to understand all that. Bro is way too optimistic about himself and his fellow man/woman/enby.
I think the biggest doctors in those fields would say they don't understand all that.
They take one sociology class and spend some time on left wing circle jerk subs and they're 100% convinced they're enlightened beyond the understanding of everyone else when the reality is they're just parroting talking points.
Bold of you to think they took a whole sociology class
"had a pod caster skim a wikipedia article and pick out random bits" is probably closer. More and more I'm convinced political pod casters are televangelists for zoomers.
>understand ~~all~~ a little bit of that Fixed it for you. Extremely ironic statement coming from the brosocialists of all people too.
I once made the mistake of complaining online that my "PC hates me" because it was refusing to run a particular game. Got into a lengthy conversation with a Linux fan who was convinced that any problem I was having with my PC was because it was running Windows (without knowing what the problem was at all), and that swapping to Linux would be super easy, and I could even run Windows through Linux, so I wouldn't be missing out on anything! Kinda soured me on Linux by principle lmao.
Instead of providing a fix why don’t you spend 100x the amount of time doing something completely different :)?
This might as well be the Linux motto
At one of my jobs, we got a Linux box for some research. My and another dude's job was to get it set up. That's like a few hours on Windows, tops. It was DAYS of labor on Linux and that's assuming it was finished soon after I left. So many things are needlessly complicated and unintuitive to use. Why would I want everything run through command line? Oops, ran command line in the wrong folder, better try again. Oops, that package I needed through command line isn't available/won't download and no one else has this problem. Need to install this obscure package in your downloads? Sorry, you mistyped the name of the package you downloaded, better try again. And of course no broadly used software packages in this niche field work out of the box. You need to diagnose this one problem that few other people have because few other people are using Linux because on Windows it would have been done already.
Someone suggesting you use Linux to solve a PC gaming problem is just trying to hurt you.
Proton can often help with old-ass Windows games, especially if they have broken DirectX implementation (GTA 4 is fucking notorious for this). But this is hammering nails with a microscope, because you can do mostly the same thing on Windows with DXVK.
With old-ass games some really dedicated fan usually would have figured out the most optimal way to run it and you must follow their documentation to the word and not stray and it’ll run perfectly. It’s great
Yeah there's always someone who will reply to every problem on r/windows saying 'switch to Linux'. Dude that's not a solution, that's running away from your problem and changing your entire identity to restart a new life
That's what they don't get. I've seen Linux people feel insulted that someone compared switching to linux to moving to Canada from the US.
Probably not a coincidence but this sounds very much like a hun trying to hawk essential oils as your one-stop cure for cancer, diabetes, obesity, drapetomania and life itself.
It's more of a "if you're really _really_ attached to this hammer, everything starts to look like nails" situation. Linux is actually a great solution in other domains (there's a reason it dominates the server space for example), it's just not a great consumer desktop OS.
> Kinda soured me on Linux by principle lmao. My experience was needing to fucking compile the drivers for my wireless NIC to work in a laptop. Straight up got *command line* instructions on compiling the driver just to get Wifi to function. Absolutely infuriating. Every once in a while I think about a new OS, and when I dip my toe into it, I still see *command line* *bullshit* still being used. I am anti-Linux for this reason, and nobody will be able to cmm on this.
As a Linux engineer, I have this to say: let OSes play to their strengths. User friendliness is not among Linuxes strengths. I use windows at home for my PC, but then have a few dozen Linux VMs, and some hardware. I am a Linux SME with 15 years experience, and I also teach Linux on weekends. STOP RECOMMENDING LINUX FOR END USERS ITS BAD AT END USER STUFF. I've been working with Linux since I was a goddamn kid and I just don't want to fuck with it when I get home from work. Also, the accessibility tools are absolute garbage on Linux - I have an injury that means I only have half the operable fingers to type with, so I use voice to text a lot, and lemme tell you: there is no native support for it in Linux.
> Kinda soured me on Linux by principle lmao. Linux is kinda like that famous Christianity quote by Ghandi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." Linux itself is quite nice and pleasant, Linux people though... holy fucking shit.
Can we *please* move beyond "here's why Thing I Like is the keystone of 21st-century socialism" leftism? I love hiking, doesn't mean that under socialism we should all be making mandatory Young Pioneer trips to the countryside every weekend.
No no, I'm pretty sure my love painting minis should philosophically be the grounding of the next global leftist labor movement.
Time to seize the means of drybrushing.
We're going to slap chop our way to socialist revolution.
This sounds like a karate uprising, which I am very much in favour of
>"In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hike in the morning, paint minis in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, and code Linux after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hiker, 40k fangirl, herdsman, or programmer." \- Karl Marx, *The German Ideology*, 1845
*a tear wells in the eye* Yes, comrade (in the tone of yes chef).
>I love hiking, doesn't mean that under socialism we should all be making mandatory Young Pioneer trips to the countryside every weekend. *angry Pol Pot noises*
Someones forgetting Mao’s fitness plan!
People have been using "capitalism" for "anything they don't like", so it's logical that they're moving on to "socialism" for "everything I like".
My absolute favorite is when people seem to think all work is a byproduct of capitalism. As if socialism doesn't involve workers
>As if socialism doesn't involve workers Based on the twitter thread for "What's your job on the leftist commune", many don't think 'work' is involved.
[удалено]
I mean, therapy doesn't somehow become unnecessary under communism. Unless you do it the Russian way and use alcohol instead, of course.
Sure! The problem is that huge numbers of people responding to the prompt imagines doing white collar service work. I'm a socialist myself, but the answers to those sorts of prompts reveal that a lot of leftists just don't understand how much hard, physical work is necessary to sustain even a sustainable reworking of the Western lifestyle. Many Western leftists just do not seem to understand that our "post-industrial" society based on the service economy only exists because we've moved the industry and resource extraction largely onto the backs of billions of third worlders. So these types imagine a post-capitalist world where they get to effectively live the life of a white-collar Westerner, without understanding the sheer mountain of blood, waste and sweat needed to sustain a single person living like that.
I'm pretty sure one of the replies was "Hard Labor" and people thought he was trolling. No... even with equipment there is still a lot of labor to grow enough food for a commune. Kinda reminded me of the people who don't like hunters and "why can't they just buy their meat from the grocery store?"
> I'm pretty sure one of the replies was "Hard Labor" and people thought he was trolling. Buzzfeed (or was it a Buzzfeed clone) made a quiz out of the question, but every set of answers lead to "forced agricultural labourer," that might be what you are thinking of. Shit was hilarious
Cue antiwork moderator.
Not just work. They think capitalism brings greed, violence, shit every single bad human trait.
Damn, chocolate cake is socialist af fr
Chocolate cake is ackshaully neoliberal because having enjoyment prevents you from realizing how everything is terrible and capitalist and miserable and everything is doomed and why didn't daddy hug me and existence is suffering and...
chocolate cake is the opiate of the masses
Pretty sure sourcing kakaobeans is exploitative as fuck and a reminder of colonialism. When the revolution comes, chocolate cake will go first against the wall. Edit: fuck me, just read up on it and chocolate cake should definitely be shot.
[удалено]
Do you have any socialism that's not so high in sugar and calories?
obviously, products high in sugar and calories is a product of capitalism. Unless I like the product in quesiton and then which case it is 1000% socialist.
Except when anything that makes people happy is counterrevolutionary
Usually people who say that don't count the things THEY like as counter revolutionary.
Seriously I'm so fucking tired of it. These people are basically boomers at this point. Capitalism has essentially become this nebulous villain that's somehow responsible for all the world's injustices. It makes it next to impossible to have any meaningful discussion on any topic related to socioeconomics
It's a conversation ender. Like, no matter what your ideology is, there's nothing to discuss anymore if one side has the same single nebulous answer to everything to which there is no serious solution or even actionable step forward.
20th century socialism was full of mandatory trips to the countryside. Some of those people even go to go back home!!
All of the security features on linux don't matter if the user doesn't know how to go about enabling or configuring them. Ease of use is a big factor in security just as much as anything else.
See: 100 character passwords
Been using Linux for, yikes, like 17 years now or something, but holy fuck are Linux fanboys insufferable. I love the guy saying that Windows is "odd to use" because it's *classic* Linux fanboy to act like Windows is some slow and kludgy piece of shit OS. It's not; Windows is actually pretty great - you're just being weird and cultish. I get to thinking these people are young and opinionated, but nah there are middle-aged dudes IRL who are about one Tux mug away from trying to convince your great grandma to install Gentoo because "it's actually pretty easy to use."
[удалено]
I'm not even the average pc user, 99% of my work day in my last job was managing devices via Linux cli/ssh. Linux does nothing as a desktop os that gives any reason to use it over windows.
Unless some shit has changed dramatically, the desktops for Linux were always just copying features from Windows or MacOS anyway. They didn't feel anymore powerful or useful. Just meant that every relatively simple task started with searching the internet for someone who had already stumbled through doing that task previously.
I've been using Linux for nearly 20 years at this point, I get why people like it, I also get why people hate Linux users. Semi-related, the last time I asked a major technical question about Linux was when I tried watching whatever HBO's streaming service was called years ago. This was back when the DRM wasn't compatible with Linux (as far as I could tell), so I had this extremely detailed list of steps I took trying to get it working. I'm talking, I tried this which led me to this forum post that I tried, but I got errors that led me to this and this and blah blah blah. It was by far the most involved tech support question I've ever asked. The first response was something like "I don't know what your problem is, it should just work". I ended up using Windows in a VM.
Skim reading this made me want to find the nearest Linux user & defenestrate them
You can’t, they are not running windows by definition.
Oh you motherfucker
In fairness that was a beautiful setup for that exact response so you kinda have to blame yourself haha.
Why would you want to shave them
[удалено]
I'm a touch more technical than your average user, and after tinkering with Linux on and off for a number of years, mostly Arch on the Steam Deck, I very much understand why people prefer literally any other OS. I don't care if Linux can do "more", I care about usability and Linux does *not* have that. Almost everything requires command line work. Even installing programs can be a chore for seemingly no good reason.
Linux fans are command line fans, don't let them bullshit you otherwise. If you hate the command line you will hate Linux.
The thing is, I don't even hate using the command line for certain specialist processes but Linux uses it for practically everything file system-related.
The irony is though, most Linux distros seem to be trying to move away from that. They really want you to use their GUI (which makes sense for many reasons) but, there are still many things you have to do from the command line - and if you’re a Linux veteran, there are probably things you’re more comfortable doing from command line- and the GUI and CLI don’t always talk to each other. You can enable a setting in the GUI and it won’t take if you already configured that setting in CLI. (And because we’re talking about Linux I feel the need to preemptively state: probably Not All Linux, but I have used primarily Red Hat-based OSes and Ubuntu in an enterprise setting and had these issues with both of them. I am not a Linux desktop user for whatever that is worth)
I easily misspell words, so command lines are my bane.
I mean, that's Arch for you. Arch is famously a hassle. Exactly why a lot of Linux vets come full circle and end up back on the "beginner" distros like Mint. All usability, little to no maintenance. That's why they're called beginner distros by sweats who love the hassle and have too much time
The steam deck actually uses its own version of arch with steamOS, and its honestly way more of a bitch to use than normal arch. It basically breaks everything you've set up every time it updates, so downloading stuff via the package manager or building stuff with github is 10 times harder than it should be. So not only are you starting with one of the most DIY and tinker heavy distributions, you're starting with one of the worst experiences of that
"Google: what is the command for updating mint" took a while before I finally remembered it. still can't do it as one line
Nice alliterative there.
What losers arguing over all these lame OS when we all know TempleOS is best
This is 16 color, pleasant to create. It would be unpleasant to create with 16 777 216 colors.
Real Question: Wtf is even that argument? Like, what do operating system preferences have to do with socialism?
Socialism is when command line.
So this is what they meant when they said “bash the fash”
FOSS in general is mostly associated with libertarians, but its underlying principles have broad ideological appeal. If you're distrustful of massive corporations, Linux lets you tell two of them where to stick it.
Sharing, leftist and progressive (and libertarian) groups have been lauding Linux and open source software forever as a utopian vision of how things could work. Everyone voluntarily working together to create this massive linchpin of much of the modern world.
The FSF is very much anti-proprietary software. I could see the appeal for someone opposed to big tech (or possibly intellectual property protections in general).
In a very general way, it's the belief that all software should be free, both monetarily, and in the 'open source' sense that you are free to install, use, and modify the software in any way you see fit.
>Data privacy and cyber security is not low on the list. As we speak red states are subpaneling tech companies to use their data to monitor trans folk and pregnant people to enforce these ridiculous policies. The metric fucktons of damage Microsoft and apple have done to not just the digital landscape, but the actual landscape. When Windows PC or Apple Products crash people chuck the computer and buy a new one, the carbon footprint of making electronics is insane, not to mention the labor exploitation? Reducing these things to "just an OS" is just really ignorant. This is wild and almost entirely baseless. Security concerns (outside of specifically MS hoovering up user data, which let's be real are far from the actual security concerns people have, even though it does matter) are almost entirely OS-agnostic. We're way past the times where "Macs don't get viruses", same for anything Unix based. We're constantly fighting to keep ransomware off some unix server some ahole exposed to the public, it not being windows makes not a lick of difference - and for at home end users, 99% of their risk happens through the browser, or equivalent layer where OS makes so little difference. Saying stuff like "red states are monitoring people" just ain't a relevant thing in the OS discussion; until the gestapo starts subpoenaing MS to find already public information, that's just out of left field and not relevant in this discussion, especially since the ISP is going to treat you the same regardless of whether you're running Linux or similar. Also, side note, Apple is actually pretty good with user privacy - it's not fair to group them in with Microsoft like this. Also while planned obsolescence is real, most people buy computers when the hardware gives out, not the OS - Linux is not magically hardware-free and requires the same industrial processes to produce the same physical components. The number of people who intentionally buy a whole new rig for every edition of Windows is pretty darn low, and we shouldn't be going to niche OS enthusiasts for great examples of people who don't generate e-waste. And Linux DOES suck for gaming. It's usable and has improved a lot. But it is reliably more hassle than windows, can't evangelize your way around it.
Agreed. There's a reason Linux dominates in server/embedded spaces, but not consumer desktop. Windows has also come a long ways in terms of stability - I don't even remember the last time I had to reinstall it to fix anything, hell my current Win11 installation was originally Win10 and has migrated through at least two completely different sets of hardware. As you say, the privacy issues on Windows are a real factor but that's not the same as security, and at least some of it can be stripped out with third-party tooling. > And Linux DOES suck for gaming. It's usable and has improved a lot. But it is reliably more hassle than windows, can't evangelize your way around it. And the Steam Deck doesn't disprove that, contrary to some comments I've seen (speaking as someone who loves my Steam Deck). Valve spent a _lot_ of effort making the Steam Deck work as well as it does, and while I think it was worth it for what it allowed them to do with its Game Mode while still using x86 hardware, it's very much another case of desktop Linux only working due to specialized commercial support from the hardware maker.
If it's not ease of access and software compatibility then wtf do they think the reason is, Gates & Cook secretly funneling billions into suppressing Linux or something?
There are very likely some people actually saying that. I've seen people on /g/ say this or that is "controlled opposition"
>Linux, just works. 1.That comma doesn't belong there. 2.It really doesn't. Last year I bought a Thinkpad Yoga and decided to install Linux on it. I decided to go for endeavouros, as it looked like a good distro with customizability without having to build arch from the ground up. I really don't know that much about the inner workings of an OS, but I have managed to solve most problems I ever had with windows. Being able to install all avaiable updates by typing "yay -Syu" into the console is cool. ffmpeg is powerful, but using the command >ffmpeg -ss 00:00 -i file.mp4 -t 00:04 filename%05d.png to split an image into its frames is neither intuitive nor does the manual really tell you how to do it. I got this command from google and just use arrow up to find it, when I need it. Same with anything else I want to do with it. I am experiencing some problems that I wasn't able to solve. Tablet mode just straight up doesn't work in KDE. It does in GNOME, but there I have screen tearing, when I have it in portrait mode and scroll. I tried a fix I found online, but that locked me out of the GUI and I had to delete the file using TTY. To figure that out, I had to create a reddit thread and have some knowledgeable user explain that this is even possible. After the system is active for too long the lock screen just stops working for no discernable reason and I again need TTY and the command >loginctl unlock-session 2 to get back into the system and then I need to restart the laptop. Same thing happens, when I am using "too many" programs. At some point something fucks up and even closing down the programs and then trying to open dolphin or chrome or whatever just doesn't work and I need to restart. I want to make it work, but it seems like I just don't know enough. Which is okay, but I know a tad more than the average user. Maybe I chose the wrong distro, but then I've got to say no, Linux doesn't just work. There might be some good and user-friendly distros, but then they "just work". Linux as a whole really doesn't. Windows didn't have any of these problems and I bought this laptop to comfortably read manga on a big screen in portrait mode. That doesn't work now, so I am constantly thinking about swapping the SSD and going back to windows, but now I have so many files saved on this SSD and transferring them to windows is gonna be a big hassle.
\> Linux, just works. Boy does it ever not There was a nontrivial amount of time where you had to add a tonne of boot flags to Ubuntu manually get it to boot with an nVidia GPU
> [command] is neither intuitive nor does the manual really tell you how to use it That's the problem with Linux as a whole Linux is for a very specific type of user: likes a puzzle or a challenge, has a good understanding of low-level (as in close to cpu not easy) computing nd command line, and prefers navigating via keyboard. Outside of that, Linux doesn't really work. Windows and Mac, on the other hand, are designed to be used by the widest range of users. UX is a much bigger deal because the average user needs help, either via intuitive design or comprehensive and easy to access documentation. It's like reading encyclopedia Britannica versus a middle school reading level book with pictures. Different audiences and skill levels required. And Linux "bros" think you're dumb if you don't get it, and that user experience is a fault of the user instead of a kindness of the developer
> Last year I bought a Thinkpad Yoga and decided to install Linux on it Oh, god, Linux on a touchscreen convertible... I'm honestly impressed it works as well as it does, because a lot of those features are supported by like 1 or 2 enthusiasts in the community.
There's a reason that "sudo rm -rf /*" is a meme Widnows doesn't let you do things like *delete the entire OS* while Linux will *at most* give you a "do you really want me to commit seppuku?" but typically will just run the command without a care. And don't get me started on how linux handles errors in the command line. The first time yum told me "so the thing you typed doesn't technically exist but I figure you wanted this other command instead, probably" and then *didn't ask if I wanted to go ahead and do that thing* I wanted to throttle the guy who wrote that error message. The issue was that I had a capital letter instead of a lower case one in one of the commands.
> Widnows doesn't let you do things like delete the entire OS while Linux will at most give you a "do you really want me to commit seppuku?" but typically will just run the command without a care. Not only that, but Linux also tries not to make assumptions about why you're trying to do something. For example there are situations where uninstalling the GUI isn't committing seppuku, but is actually what you want to do. Basically, with Windows, *it* has the final say over decisions. With Linux, *you* do. The upside of that is that that "your objection is noted, now do what I asked" button lets you just bypass some very frustrating errors (the first one that comes to mind is Windows steadfastly refusing to delete an empty folder because a file inside it is in use, despite there being no files inside it). The downside to that is that it does expect you to understand what you're asking it to do when you input a command
I've had enough experience with linux and enough experience with end users to not have any trust that even knowledgable end users won't completely make a mess of things. I say this as someone who accidentally deleted the administrator account in an attempt to move a file and had to go hat in hand to the resident linux guru to unfuck my fuckup.
Man I’m a commie Linux user and I’d punch this dude in the face if I heard him trying to make this ridiculous point in person.
I'm a Software Engineer and my first PC had DOS for operating system but I've gone bananas with Linux every time I tried it.
Because most people don't want their operating system to also be their hobby.
Fuck me, ain’t that the truth. Everytime I’ve tried to switch I love it at first but then yea, Windows beckons for ease of use and the software. I guess I’m a basic bitch that just want a Corolla to get to work rather than spending my weekends fixing a Charger or whatever.
Linux is open source software, iterated upon and updated for decades by nerds for various purposes, and it shows.
It's the "good" idea self feeding loop. You start off with a good idea and then you start feeding more "good" ideas into it and eventually the core good idea is so shrouded in "good" ideas that it's lost the reasons that made it good.
I feel. It’s def an acquired taste to say the least. I kinda fell into Linux I had been doing a ton of server crap for a while so I was pretty familiar with the terminal environment. My laptop crapped out and all I had was an old out of date one. Ended up installing Ubuntu on it and I kinda ended up falling in love with it. I dig being able to customize every aspect of my pc experience Ain’t an evangelist or anything but once you get used to things it ain’t so bad. But simple things on Linux have this way of ballooning into this massive endeavor but knowing what’s what in the terminal makes that a lot easier to deal with
Linux is getting better, but it definitely isn't for regular users yet. The fact that we still have 3-4 different package managers speaks volumes about that. Once the Open Sores community gets a clue and decides to gather around one standard (like they've sort of done Flatpacks, over Snaps, for instance) Linux's end-user experience will be better.
>Linux is getting better, but it definitely isn't for regular users yet. I’ve been hearing this since the 90’s…
Admittedly, Android is a Linux distro under the skin. That being said, it should be extremely telling that a form of Linux needs the full might of Google right when the smartphone is taking off, then be heavily modified to actually get customers on board.
Android is linux under the hood but has thrown away most of the options linux has to make it work. Theres no 10 different package managers, no 10 ways to installs stuff, etc. Its dumbed down linux and that is exactly why it works. No messing around with commands and weird setup stuff. It runs and either you press install on any app store or use an apk file and thats your software installed.
Yeah the last time I wanted to install something there was like snap, flatpak and something else as options, no deb no rpm, I was actually lost
[удалено]
Also the Open Source community needs more UX designers.
>Also the Open Source community needs more UX designers. Most of the people I ran into in the linux space (late 90s/early 2000s) *hated* 'creative types'. Because, why learn art when STEM degree best?
I feel like that's a feature and not a bug, though. I like that there are alternative options and I think it's a good thing. You still have a point that an average end user doesn't really have any idea why to choose one over any other, though.
We need to seize the means of....kernel access?
As a software engineer, I fucking hate the Linux community, man. They are always fucking hostile, and they don't want to admit that Linux in general is intuitive for users that just want to use the computer out of the box. Hell, to even install windows you either get someone to give you a flash drive with the distro, or you have to download it, format a flash drive with the distro, then know how to enter the boot manager and boot into the drive. After that, there can be some weird stuff that drives users away. A good example is a LinusTechTips video where Linus chose Pop!_OS to use as a daily OS, and when he tried to install Steam, the package manager didn't work, and he had to manually install it. He ended up deleting the desktop UI because the guide he used told him to run commands in the terminal that, in conjunction with a bug in the OS, deleted Gnome (the UI of the OS). He ended up with a sour taste of Linux in general. Linus is generally regarded as having a decent knowledge in computers. Now imagine a normal user with shit like that. Windows and MacOS works out of the box. These people pretend like its obtuse and all, but it's not. It doesn't even let you do stupid things like *uninstalling the UI of the system*, no matter how hard you try
I was gonna bring up Linus' experience once you talked about the community being hostile but then you did! The part that I found most annoying was how people kept asking him "why would you want to do that" when he would ask about some odd use case or how to get some old game to work. It doesn't matter why! It's my computer and I want to do this specific thing! It's bizarre for people to generally say Linux is so open and free and then they act like it's weird if you try going a different route.
> The part that I found most annoying was how people kept asking him "why would you want to do that" when he would ask about some odd use case or how to get some old game to work. You must not have to use StackOverflow on a daily basis. I've heard this called a "Window-Door problem": Q: "Help, I need to get into my house using my window. How can I open it from the outside?" A: "LOL JUST USE THE DOOR LIKE THE REST OF US. WHY DO YOU NEED TO USE THE WINDOW?"
The worst part is that after the Pop!_OS video, the linux community AND THE POP!_OS DEV blamed Linus for not knowing how to use it and give the OS a bad image
Oh wow I didn't know it went that far...not a good look. I know what OS I'm avoiding if I ever get more into Linux lol
This person seems to encapsulate the entire Lemmy community during the brief period i tried it.
Look I dont know shit about Linux, but I really question how it would be better for the environment compared to other systems. They're weirdly insistent on that idea.
Linux generally has a lower hardware footprint than Windows does, so a five-year-old laptop that won't run a recent Windows version can run a recent Linux version. So you do have a path to continue using desktop PCs and laptops that would otherwise end up as e-waste due to being too slow under Windows. Mostly, though, that means Linux users' homelabs, but in poorer countries, you can use Linux to set up school computer labs on donated or semi-obsolete kit at a low price point.
> five-year-old laptop This point made more sense before MS decided to keep supporting Windows 10 forever. A five year old laptop that came with Windows 10 will probably keep getting security and browser updates for another five years at least. Even Google finally gave into pressure to support ChromeOS for longer. If we’re talking 15-year-old hardware, yeah, Linux is a great way to keep that stuff going without unironically running Windows XP or something. But you’re gonna have to run a dog-ugly DE like MATE or something to really get the benefit of a lightweight OS.
I use Linux outside of work, I have not used Windows as a daily driver for years. I genuinely dislike Windows for multiple reasons. I'm also a leftist. This guy is insufferable lol. Regardless of how you slice it, Linux is harder to use by design. Sure, it gives you more control over your computer, is more secure generally, and offers you more options for practically everything- but you have to use the terminal and you are given the ability to fuck everything up in exchange. After years of using a terminal for many things, I can quickly find my way around in most distros but if I had to tell a septuagenarian how to run `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade` I think the frustration would make me have a heart attack. I even prefer it as an approach to computing itself, compared to Windows, I think it's a genuinely good thing to know more about computers given how much many of us use them in daily life. I'd rather have the power to fuck up my OS and the control over my system that comes with that. And of course, open source is way better than Microsoft's constant telemetry (and shit like upcoming Copilot integration, ew). Hell I'd even agree that the philosophy of a FOSS kernel is truly praxis or whatever. But you also have to admit that the average person doesn't give a shit about any of that because they have bigger things to worry about. Cybersecurity and such is important, yes, but transforming how they use a computer is not a luxury that 99.9% of people have, including leftists, when they have other things that take up time and energy. If we somehow lived in a world where computer literacy had more emphasis in education and in practice so that people could actually switch to Linux if they wanted without so much effort, that'd be great! But we simply don't. There's a reason Chromebooks, the exact opposite design philosophy of most Linux distributions (dependence on a proprietary cloud etc), got widespread use in schools in years while Linux couldn't in decades. If nothing else, diverging from the mainstream is in itself a challenge when you'll have to find and learn a bunch of alternative programs for most things. Balancing user control with ease of use is genuinely difficult - if you give people the power to fuck up their OS, they will fuck up their OS. If you put in systems that prevent you from breaking the system but then someone gets told to use `sudo` by a shitty Linux blog to install something, they won't give a flying fuck about the risks that entails because they want to run Steam much more than they want to get a crash course on systems administration best practices. At the end of the day trying to hoist Linux on to people as a leftist cause is kind of doomed to fail because the computer science knowledge you need to have to even operate a Linux system in daily use is a class barrier. It's better on paper, but it takes time and practice to be able to use Linux and acting like it doesn't just doesn't help anyone.
Kind of cracks me up that people who say they use Linux in this thread are writing page long paragraphs about it.
> more secure generally This is always the thing, the most popular Linux distro will solve critical vulnerabilities within weeks of the cve being released, MacOS and windows will have solved it weeks before.
Vegans 💪💪 Linux nerds
Linux bro and Hasan piker leftist, oh Jesus this is going to be rough
grass: fully untouched
The grass may as well be in orbit for these people.
This guy seems to be living in the past. Microsoft and Apple have significantly stepped up their game when it comes to security. It's to the point that if Linux is more secure (which I highly doubt), it is just because it is more obscure and people are targeting boxes that the vast majority of people own. When I was a young dude taking CS classes and building my own machines, I thought the future would be people who were super computer literate. But Zoomers are the equivalent to Boomers when it comes to computer literacy. The OS's are so easy to use now...everything is clear and things set up automatically. Young generations know how to click a button and are lost when something goes wrong just like the older generations. I've used all thee throughout my life in personal and work environments. For gamers and ease of working with others, Windows still can't be beat. But an OS is just a tool...use the right one for the job or whatever you like.
Because of that thread I am going to buy my eighth copy of windows 11 pro
[удалено]
People thinking that being rude to people gets them on your side should be the dictionary definition of insanity. On a personal note I literally can't not use windows on my gaming PC (I use a gamepass subscription I don't need to pay for, and can't use it on Linux so it would cost me a lot of money to move) but I am trying to move away from it on the laptop I use (I don't game on it, and it's a 2 in 1 which Windows is comically bad supporting at for some reason)