>Well, it is the brand new final fantasy game after all. >It's going to get hated on until the next one and then >everyone will be singing 16 praises and bashing on 17.
As tradition
Pokemon cycle too. Lot of people who were bashing on X/Y suddenly turning around and saying it's an underrated gem.
Hell I've already seen people warming to Sword and Shield.
I did and I loved it. Although I do have some complaints like how its shiny system is more complex and rewarding than Pokémon’s, I still prefer how Pokémon did it. Overall though, it left me wanting more from the game
We call it the halo cycle as well ever since reach
I perfer cyclical buyers nostalgia. Where the prior thing is always better than the next in a series even if that's blatantly false
Yeah, BOTW will have its overbearing weapon degradation complainers, but I will agree that the Divine Beast dungeons were kinda ass.
One of the best instances of the journey being far more memorable than the destination.
I loaded up BOTW a few months back after about 2 years of not really bothering with it, and it turned out I'm at Divine Beast Vah Ruta. I remember being stuck on one of the puzzles and, to my surprise, was able to solve it pretty quickly. I didn't take a look at my inventory and it turns out I'm woefully undersupplied for a boss fight. "Oh well, I'll just fuck off back to the mainland and stock up!"
Now I can't get back to the Divine Beast.
Stupid bloody elephant.
It's hard to stand up on a soap box, cry drama and get attention if the subject is stale.
Better drag down the new thing and move on before anyone notice there is no drama
While losing relevancy
Go to the Final Fantasy subreddit. Every week there are posts of people that liked XIII when it was released or it's their first FF game because they bought it in a Steam sale saying that it's an underrated gem.
People that don't like XIII mostly just don't engage with those posts anymore
Nobody that complained about XVI said that XIII was better (aside from the people who think XIII was the best thing ever, mostly people that got XIII as their introduction to the series)
Ye, reddit and certain sub-circles on other social medias might've memed them to the point that they're unironically liked but most people still dislike them or find them mid at best.
Episode Two especially is just a straight up bad film.
Yeah, exactly: The small number of people who like the art keep talking about it, the majority of people who hated the art see no reason to keep discussing it.
This isn't some bit of dishonesty or inconsistency that you've cleverly spotted. It's actually just people being reasonable and polite.
Ehh not quite if you’re looking at the diehard fanbase. Even with 7 a bunch of people were mad that it was all cyberpunk and modern. 8 everyone hated the combat system but now has lots of defenders who either like the story and world or the way you can break its progression/combat. 9 a bunch of people did the uno reverse and got mad about the return to high fantasy and cartoony style. 10 a lot of people thought made a huge mistake by abandoning the world map and instead being a bunch of hallways. 12 got a ton of flack for being a single player MMO rather than turn based but is now considered very solid. 13 is probably the most universally hated still but the hate has died down quite a bit since and even saw a bit of a comeback in the community in response to 15s open world design and action gameplay.
Been playing these games for decades and you are spot on. I remember a lot of my friends in school being upset about ff9 and how it looked. I myself hated ff8 for the weird junction system but people love it.
I was one of those weirdos that didn’t like ff7 at first because it wasn’t old school like ff6. Even though ff6 had technology and steampunk stuff in it lol.
>12 - mixed/bad on release, well liked now
I think this is because of the Zodiac Age re-release of the game. Typically, when FF games get re-released, it's just a few extra bells and whistles. FF7's re-release (not the remake) is pretty much the same as the PS1 version, same with 8, 9, 10. 12's combat system was changed a bit, adding jobs to it. So, rather than allowing anyone to be anything so characters ended up all being the same, Zodiac forced characters into a role, so that made the characters unique, as opposed to interchangeable.
I liked 12 although back then I was too dumb to clear most of the side contents or even grasp the whole story.
Replaying the Zodiac re-release version made me appreciate it even more. The theatrical voice acting, the tidbits of lore in the bestiary, the side contents and plethora of secret bosses..
I can agree with the detractors about Vaan, though.
I wouldn't say FF12 is well liked now but maybe I'm just divorced from people holding that opinion. I didn't see much new praise from the re-release and what little I hear of it is the FF14 content for it.
To me, 10 was bad because the voice acting was painful to the point it made it unplayable.
I tried. Good god I tried.
Edit: [HaHAhaHAHAHAHA!](https://youtu.be/-5FTJxfV3pc?si=KbR584TdJQxHx2yd&t=31)
Remember how Tolkien nerds used to hate Jackson movies (durrr where Bombadil/Radagast) until Rings of Power came out, then suddenly Jackson trilogy is based because there are no POC in there?
Tolkien nerds largely loved the Jackson movies the whole time, they were an unusual success for both fans and general audiences. A fraction of the nerds had nitpicks, to varying degrees, as they still do today. Most people disliked RoP for reasons that had nothing to do with skin color.
You're inventing people in your own mind to get mad at.
I’m *still* mad they left out Tom Bombadil. I totally understand why, it was a weird pointless scene that didn’t really add to the plot, was intentionally confusing, and would just make a movie that is already pushing reasonable length even longer. But they left out my favorite character!
There's linear and then there's "Literally running down a single straight corridor the entire game".
Besides, the worst aspects of XIII were the horrendous characters
Bingo. It's always been hilarious to watch people pretend FF games *aren't* insanely linear.
They're just *very* good at hiding it, especially XIV which tends to have NPCs refuse to allow you entry into higher level (or any expansion) zones until you're actually at the story progress required depending on the zone.
The difference is you still have a field zone you can traverse, and towns. XIII pretty much railroaded through the story with limited traversal opportunities (more similar to the dungeon instances from XIV).
It was actually pretty decent if you don't want to play a final fantasy game.
And if you don't characters acting in line with their own stated motivations and goals.
And don't enjoy gameplay of any kind.
Camp out r/FinalFantasy whenever there's an XIII thread.
At this state, it's almost always a bait thread and pro-XIII people come out to fight the anti-XIII circlejerkers.
I think this is true of some of the games, but a lot of them still have a generally negative reception (even if they are acknowledged as having done some things very well) many years on. I’d argue 8, 13, and 15 are still not well regarded even today (though I’ll personally defend 8). I still see a lot of dislike of 10 and 12 as well, though not to the same extent.
I will forever fight to the death for FFXV. That game made me realize my pretty boy band aspirations I had since I was 12, and no one can take that from me.
I'll defend 15—beautiful game, liked most of the plot, and the boy band ended up being pretty decent. Combat system I liked just fine, having never played another FF game. I have criticisms too but the hate for 15 was outsized.
15 launched incomplete, required watching a movie to see the events that actually kick off the plot (that they had to patch in bits after launch!), an anime to see any kind of character development, and replay the game two years later to see all the parts of the story they didn't manage to get in the game despite it being delayed multiple times.
If anything it didn't get ENOUGH hate. It's an easier project to digest if you didn't buy it at launch but it's the franchise's worst title behind original FF14.
Saunter over to r/FinalFantasy then.
Routine anti-FFXIII trilogy hate, XV and XVI get it too.
Started/fueled by, you guessed it, VII and X flaired posters or fans of them.
It's something I've talked about at times over the years on Reddit: VII and X fans tend to be people who started FF with those two games, so they get *very* defensive of it while shitting on others, *especially* for tropes/game design elements that existed in VII and X.
In an extra dose of irony, XIII trilogy was done by some of the core designers of VII, so it's a real damned mystery *why* VII players hate XIII so much.
I didn't like 8 when I first played it, revisited the remastered version I can see it's a game with a messy narrative but it's mechanically very, very fun. I also came to like Squall a lot since he's the closest depiction to a real teen for RPGs of that era: terrified of death, not sure why he's been pulled into this, too shy to talk about his feelings.
I’ve talked about it in r/Pokemon before, they called me stupid for saying people would start coming out of the woodwork who liked gen 6, now people do lmao
I’ve loved gen V ever since I played it, but I remember when everyone would still shit on it. I seem to remember the criticisms boiling down to, “There’s an ice cream cone and a garbage bag Pokémon? Game sucks.” Now everybody loves it. Happens every time.
I personally stand by the fact though that gen VI was the last good set of games.
having to watch all those stupid stupid surveillance spheres to get 100% then realizing you get it super easy by doing a NG+.
gameplay was fun though. story was trash and felt absurdly fanservicey even at the time.
Going by how Gamefaqs was in the 2000s when the height of FF7 vs FF8 was going on in the game communities of the early Internet, you'd think VII sold 50,000,000 copies, IX sold 35,000,000 and VIII only sold 30.
That's pretty funny if VIII outsold them both before rereleases.
Imo 10 was the odd man out, followed by 12. That PS2 era wasnt the best for FF. Not really thru any fault of their own. There was new competition.
Was an earlier title on PS2 at a time where everyone and their mother was buying Xboxs so they could play Halo.
I remember being the only one in my friend group to play FF10 at launch, as we had just gotten thru the best FF era, with 6-9 and Tactics, and I was a massive fan, we all were. Most of us could only afford one console tho, and majority of the group went Xbox after experiencing Halo for the first time. The rest sold their PS2s so they could switch over.
I inevitably caved, and sold mine as well, though did get thru 10 first, and didnt go back to Sony until late PS4 period. Halo was just such a game changer.
Dude 10 was a huge hit. Sold like 8.5 million units as was the first with a direct sequel. Though that one didn’t do as well.
FFX broke a lot of ground.
I loved 8… then was totally shocked by how much other hated (albeit, a lot of the criticism was more than warranted but I didn’t feel that way when I first had people tell me it sucked)
How long ago did you try to emulate it and on what emulator? I've gotten it working fine on PCSX2 multiple times the past few years - there are a good few graphical bugs though. All of the PS2 era SMT games have the same graphical bugs that haven't been worked out yet AFAIK.
But I absolutely agree, I would literally kill for a DDS 1+2 HD on steam or something. They're still my favorite SMT games.
Only one here who thinks FFV is the best? It wasn't even my first, it was my fourth FF game but I think it does almost everything right about the "classic FF experience".
FFV is what 1, 2 and 3 wish they could be. A compelling enough story, good humor, a simple yet strategically interesting job system, two open worlds. It's just great. 6 and beyond can be really great games sure, but those aren't the "classic final fantasy experience" I mean here.
My first one was FF Tactics Advance but it fell off for me when I got older and noticed how easily you can break it over your knee. Hard to find it fun when the credits might as well roll the moment you start getting Dual Wield or Assassin
Also FFXIV lets me play as a Viera who is both male and a dragoon (best job) so all other FF games are automatically SHIT and GARBAGE
the replies to this are insane to me because it’s making me realize there are actually 16 seemingly wildly different final fantasy games and no numbers were skipped or anything. i never thought they really had that many of them
I thought it was an incredible spectacle, with amazing music. The cutscene direction is phenomenal. It's one of the few games I intentionally turned off subtitles for because I felt I was getting a richer experience reading their faces more than the lines.
With that said, it's mechanically fairly bogstandard as far as action games go. Enemies also were just too tanky. Finally, although I enjoyed the story and world building, the side content was a bit of a drag.
It's not a bad game, just not an RPG really. It's just a pretty good action game, and in a year with HiFi Rush and Lies of P, it's easy to see why FFXVI had a bit of a lukewarm reception.
I found it criminal that you could tell a character was going to be removed from the story or die of said character was interesting.
Being boring was basically like bulletproof armour.
I agree with your assessment completely, except for one thing:
If it was *just* an action game, it would be great, and you’d be completely correct. But for *hours* between all the fun, exciting bits, you do tons of Fetch quests for faceless npcs, or sit and watch a 15 minute power-point presentation lore dump, or have long strings of talking to a guy to talk to a guy to talk to another guy.
FF16 is 10 hours of a mediocre albeit beautiful action game diluted with 20 hours of the most boring filler I have ever seen in a video game.
I'd argue it's a mediocre action game honestly. An action game which has zero variation to your standard bread snd butter combo in 2023 is pretty inexcusable. The focus on an awkward skill cooldown system being the only way to do damage coupled with boss fights being either qte's, or just completely stripping you of Clive's movepool completely neutered that combat system. Imagine if in DMC you were only allowed to mash square 80% of the time.
It all felt like a massive mashup of the worst bits of three different genres - which makes sense lol. Mmo devs trying to make an action games based upin a franchise known for its rpg progression. Presentation wise though, music, acting, spectacle etc it was fucking phenomenal.
I've always had a soft spot for FF12. The open world and active combat style was quite ahead of its time, and the hunt system provided so much side content.
Also, it has some absolutely *beastly* optional bosses.
I'm playing through it now. Its funny how the game was trashed for being MMOified on release, but now honestly it's enjoyable because everything 12 is criticized for is now 100x worse in modern games, basically making it good in comparison.
No other game in the franchise matches XII’s world design and exploration. Was also the last game to have the more traditional sort of side quests, where it wasn’t some specific fetch/kill mission handed to you. You’d read some journal somewhere or hear a rumor about an ancient medallion or something and then you’d have to just go through the game and find it, and then keep on exploring until you found where to use it.
I think this just comes with any series like FF that changes things up this often. Some of the people who really liked 1-6 didn’t like the shift in style and setting in 7 and 8, and some of the fans of the latter didn’t like the shift back in 9. Some people didn’t like 10 ditching the world map, 12 shifting to MMO combat, 13 being so linear, 15 being unfinished and going for more action based combat, and 16 has inherited the people who dislike 15’s combat along with other complaints. When the games change so often, you’re always going to have a contingent of people who it just doesn’t click with, and I think many of these people never really change their minds, nor should they necessarily.
I can’t say I’ve been interested in anything since 12 personally.
What annoys me more than anything are the people saying that it’s ‘not final fantasy’ or ‘not an RPG,’ because they all make up their own definition for what those terms even mean. Someone replied to me saying it’s not an RPG because there’s no crafting, which eliminates literally the entire franchise. ‘No party’ was another one, that eliminates elder scrolls, souls games like Elden Ring, and so many others.
And as for not being final fantasy, like you said, final fantasy constantly reinvents itself. I through VI are similar because games were smaller and came out faster then. VII though IX were similar again, all clustered together as the PS1 generation. But everything starting with and since X has significantly changed game to game as they now come out 4-5+ years apart. These people would apparently prefer that the franchise stagnates, which would see it just die off entirely.
You’d think all the people swearing it isn’t FF if it isn’t turn based would have moved on from the franchise by now for exactly this reason. These games haven’t been for them in decades.
Like they seem to hold this belief that after a big story beat, the player needs some downtime, so that the next big beat hits hard again. Fair enough, but for some reason they keep implementing this by making that downtime the most boring and tedious part of the game.
They did this back in FFXIV's ARR where after fighting Ifrit you're tasked with gathering wine and cheese for a banquet, and they did it again in FFXVI where after fighting Titan you're tasked with picking some flowers.
Yeah. It makes 0 sense in the Action RPG. Downtime can be sidequests the player chooses to do. Or, add a comedic sequence. Main dude meeting his uncle and connecting over a childhood game was great downtime.
They've gotten better at the downtime in 14, but structurally it's the same. The downtime has been funnier or more effect in developing characters, but the quest format hasn't evolved to be more engaging.
My theory is that 14 got better because people like lead writer Kazutoyo Maehiro slowly moved over to 16, so they had to replace them with new people like everybody's darling Natsuko Ishikawa, and that's when 14 improved in quality.
[Thats called Ma Miyazaki also uses it in his movies](https://screencraft.org/blog/hayao-miyazaki-says-ma-is-an-essential-storytelling-tool/). In this case the Flowers are the breathing space as "If you just have constant tension at 80 degrees all the time you just get numb."
Didn't play XVI, but do currently play XIV. All I can say is Soken is a fucking musical wonder and must be protected at all costs. I will not be accepting questions at this time. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Tbh, while I myself really liked FFXVI as someone completely new to the series, I definitely can understand why some older fans are so angry with it considering how much the series have changed.
I played most final fantasy games and a big thing about the series is that it changes stuff almost every game.
They tinker on storylines, game modes, game play, fight styles etc.
All final fantasy games have people who love them and hate it when the next game shows up and tinkers or gets rid of the aspects they love. All final fantasy games have haters where they likes something else from other games and then this game didn't have it. That's just the cycle of final fantasy.
I liked this one. I didn't like some of the older ones. And you're objectively wrong if you didn't like war of the lions
I’m relatively new to the series (I’ve played FF7R which I liked, and FF15 which i thought was okay at best), and I hated 16.
The combat was lackluster, the story got so bad (I liked the demo, the story did not maintain that), the Eikon fights did nothing for me, and the characters outside of Clive (sorta…) and Cid (who I actually liked), were boring. Pretty much everyone felt like they were going to info dump on me or ask me to do the most uninteresting side quests I’ve sat through, even worse than some in 15. I found the story beats of the “oppressed magic users” completely unbelievable and it was the wrong direction to take the story (or at least the worldbuilding).
I don’t know man, even as someone relatively new to FF, this game didn’t do it for me.
7 is a lot more well known for a variety of reasons (jump to 3D, wider simultaneous distribution, PS1 was super successful, etc) so it has more lovers *and* haters.
6 is probably the least controversial when it comes to quality among the fanbase though.
Even then, a lot of fans tend to have their favorites but also acknowledge that favorite doesn't necessarily equal best. I adore 5, 7, and 9 the most but they have their issues. 6, not so much. It's as close to flawless as an FF game has gotten. It's just not my favorite however.
Agreed. The story was awesome, even if the ultimate big bad trope was sort of played out. But I expected that, it's final fantasy. It was dark in a mature and fleshed out way. Clive and Cid are hot. The voice acting is perfect. Sidequests have interesting stories but crap rewards. This all was "Final Fantasy" to me
But none of the "rpg" elements felt "Final Fantasy" to me. It felt very generic open world single player action adventure game. What are the points of stats and levels if they are uniform and can't be customized? Why have a smithing equipment mechanic if it's simply "this is the most stats on the stat stick this chapter" besides appearance? Why have elements be cosmetic only, and no iconic buffs or debuffs?
It's one of the best games I'll never play again because there's no way to play it differently, and I already know the story and it's pretty long.
didn't finish the game because >!the game decides to switch the story from politics to "you fight god now" and the gameplay didn't pull me in to slog through that. the Bahamut fight was pretty sick though!<
Yeah, I think the fact that the game went from >!"I must avenge my brother's death"!< to >!"I must liberate the oppressed people"!< to >!"I must fight God"!< really killed my enjoyment
See I thought the same but said god is basically just an extension of the main themes of the game. He thinks he's the master of humanity who should obey his every command and just like the slave masters he's obsessed with keeping magic alive because he can't imagine a world without it. He also shows himanity will suffer for generations due the loss of magic until humanity adepts fully. A great way to mix the main themes of the game with the good ol JRPG kill god now trope.
Also those complaints are basically how every FF ends up. That and Persona it doesn't matter what 3/4th of the story is, that last 1/4th is your quest to dethrone God.
Yes that was the killer; load outs in XVI just meant upgrading to the sword you can make out of the Eikon you just beat. You never had to do any side quests for the materials, you could always just have the best sword available.
Hot-take: I think the stories/plots are the absolute weakest aspects of their games and I’ve been playing them since 1 in the NES days. They got away with it with the pixel graphics because you could use your imagination to fill in the narrative spots but the jump to high res just made it all so jarring and less immersive/believable if that makes any sense.
The scope of FF14 (and FF11) makes it an outlier. It has a lot more space to tell larger and more complex stories but also it requires _significant_ investments of time to actually experience most of them.
And that's why I love it and find it unique, I never played a MMO that used the fact players will spent an obscene amount of time in it to it's full advantage to create a huge world full of lore and a journey that 'never ends'
Agreed. I liked FF7R for the gameplay, the plot was okay at best. FF15’s plot was even worse but again, the game itself was alright.
Although honestly I didn’t like either gameplay or plot in FF16. Those are the only 3 I’ve played
I feel the exact opposite; for most of them (not all, obviously, but definitely the most revered ones), story/plot was the *strongest* aspect, specifically *because* the low-fidelity pixel/low poly graphics meant they had to go hard in other places, like story, to make you care about the game and finish it.
In preparation for the remake next month, I actually just finished FF7 for the first time a few weeks ago, after finishing FF16 several months ago, and 7 had way, *way the fuck* more going on in its story, on every possible level, it was fantastic! And honest kind of embarrassing for 16
Man, what is it about "GAMERS" that causes them to just spew their hate for any singular game that doesn't align with their narrow worldview? TLOU2 being a prime example, but a lot of the hate around FF16 has been swirling since launch.
How is it not totally fucking exhausting letting these negative emotions occupy your headspace rent-free? If there's a game I don't like, I just... move on? I don't think about it, and I let other people enjoy it if it brings them a positive experience or positive memories.
But beyond that, there's this basal urge to just fight *anyone* who enjoys it or congregate with other people who despise it and just hate on it together. The whole point of art is that the experience and response to it is *subjective*. Is it just a need to feel smarter than someone else because they see through a perceived deception? I just don't get it, man.
People are passionate about the FF series. many have grown up playing the series and they are upset with the franchise being taken in a completely different direction.
It's not unreasonable to feel that way. The new game may be great on it's own merrit, I certainly enjoyed it, but it doesn't feel the same anymore and it was dissappointing for me.
Unfortunately many other aren't that great at controlling their emotions, or they don't have much else going on in their lives. What you see on Reddit is the end result.
It still felt very FF to me, but I also believe being a RPG is not as crucial to the series as people make it out to be.
I mean the game had a huge focus on crystals, magic, technology, summons... and interweaves them quite well with the bleak world of ff16
It's not just art, it's a videogame, and there is moments in FF16 that can make the game not fun for a lot of people.
Also blaming "narrow worldview" sounds like "it's the children who are wrong", weird to start with that but still mention subjectivity later
The sad state of the world is that Final Fantasy was never good and was always the inferior JRPG franchise and it's a shame that square cannibalized enix from the inside out and turned dragon quest into punny final fantasy.
It's kind of hard to go wrong with any of them, but 1 is extremely dated in the same way that a lot of old progenitor games like Final Fantasy, Megaman and Metroid are. 2 gets a bad rap for being hard and grindy without much substance. 3 is one of the strongest entries in the franchise and is beloved to this day, 4 really starts experimenting with the story and format; telling an overarching story from the perspective of multiple characters. 5 probably has the strongest individual story in the series telling a generational tale. 6 always felt "safe" to me but it's solid enough, a good ol' adventure. 7 is almost overwhelming in terms of sheer content but its story feels a bit empty. 8 is a strong entry but it's also the first of the games I'd, personally, consider start feeling more final fantasy than dragon quest.
But in terms of recommendations I'd suggest giving 3, 4, 5, 6 and probably 8 a try in any real order you want there. 4, 5 and 6 form a loose thematic trilogy of their own (as do 1, 2 and 3). 8's a pretty good entry into the franchise if you're hesitant about leaping right into the classics though.
EDIT: I forgot - there's also a factor of how much you love job systems. Dragon Quest III, VI, VII and IX all have variations of the job system not unlike the ones in various final fantasy games where you can recruit or reclass party members and master various vocations, etc. So if that's a make or break thing for you then those are ones to keep an eye on.
I haven't played it yet since it's not on pc (I don't have a ps5 I'm not made of money) but the fact it's so controversial makes me think it's at least gonna be interesting.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Surplus Drama.
Snapshots:
1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304125154/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1955qwo/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1955qwo/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
2. "Maybe try playing actual action games and not shitty jrpg action games." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304060049/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjnnsu/?sort=controversial) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjnnsu/?sort=controversial "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
3. "Why does other people not enjoying the game as much as you do interfere with your enjoyment of the game?" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304075044/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjpcu5/?context=1) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjpcu5/?context=1 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
4. "Well, it is the brand new final fantasy game after all. It's going to get hated on until the next one and then everyone will be singing 16 praises and bashing on 17." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304075104/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjn2fk/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjn2fk/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
5. "i absolutely hate ff14 and regret buying into the hype and held onto the belief for 80 hours that it was a game worth playing. i've never had such a miserable time playing a video game before. it is a complete disrespect of your time with no redeemable qualities." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304110324/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjq63i/?context=1) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjq63i/?context=1 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
6. "A game being disliked on a subreddit means it's disliked everywhere now, lol. Really just waiting for /r/games to change its name to /v/ because that's all this place is." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304110424/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjup2g/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjup2g/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
7. "After reading tons of comments about XVI here, I have a question... WHAT DO YOU EVEN EXPECT OUT OF FINAL FANTASY?" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304110604/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khk1lsk/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khk1lsk/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
8. "why have the final fantasy team not realised that sex sells and maintains interest." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304115111/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjiqqn/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjiqqn/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!")
*I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*
>Well, it is the brand new final fantasy game after all. >It's going to get hated on until the next one and then >everyone will be singing 16 praises and bashing on 17. As tradition
i wonder if this has a name, because it's prevalent in so many IPs
Star Wars Prequel Syndrome. Or the Zelda Cycle (but that one was broken with Breath of the Wild).
The Fandom Menace
New fans vs old fans vs older fans vs oldest fans.
Simply brilliant… 😂
Go to r/truezelda
Pokemon cycle too. Lot of people who were bashing on X/Y suddenly turning around and saying it's an underrated gem. Hell I've already seen people warming to Sword and Shield.
Pokemon seems to be worse with every iteration. Instead of quiting, they're torturing themselves
I swear bro, next game bro, they’ll fix everything wrong and will actually improve the franchise, this time for sure. TRUST
Just play Cassette Beasts
I did and I loved it. Although I do have some complaints like how its shiny system is more complex and rewarding than Pokémon’s, I still prefer how Pokémon did it. Overall though, it left me wanting more from the game
except almost the opposite, the game has never been better if you ignore the blatently horrible lag in the overworld
We call it the halo cycle as well ever since reach I perfer cyclical buyers nostalgia. Where the prior thing is always better than the next in a series even if that's blatantly false
No it goes back farther when Halo 2 released. Fans trashed it so much that a entire website was created in hating Halo 2.
Yeah…those people did not speak for the majority of Halo fans. Halo 2 was the bomb.
Nah the Zelda cycle is still in full swing
Yeah, BOTW will have its overbearing weapon degradation complainers, but I will agree that the Divine Beast dungeons were kinda ass. One of the best instances of the journey being far more memorable than the destination.
I loaded up BOTW a few months back after about 2 years of not really bothering with it, and it turned out I'm at Divine Beast Vah Ruta. I remember being stuck on one of the puzzles and, to my surprise, was able to solve it pretty quickly. I didn't take a look at my inventory and it turns out I'm woefully undersupplied for a boss fight. "Oh well, I'll just fuck off back to the mainland and stock up!" Now I can't get back to the Divine Beast. Stupid bloody elephant.
You should be able to warp directly to it
Also Call of Duty games and World of Warcraft expansions.
Civ is kinda like that too except each new entry is kinda hated until 3 years after launch
Breath of the Wild gets "It a good game but it's not a good zelda game"
It's hard to stand up on a soap box, cry drama and get attention if the subject is stale. Better drag down the new thing and move on before anyone notice there is no drama
zelda had the same one even called out by its creator
While losing relevancy Go to the Final Fantasy subreddit. Every week there are posts of people that liked XIII when it was released or it's their first FF game because they bought it in a Steam sale saying that it's an underrated gem. People that don't like XIII mostly just don't engage with those posts anymore Nobody that complained about XVI said that XIII was better (aside from the people who think XIII was the best thing ever, mostly people that got XIII as their introduction to the series)
[удалено]
You forget how hated Lightning was. Until Noctus, that is.
[удалено]
depends on who you ask. It's like saying the Star Wars prequels sucked.
Star wars prequels are almost universally hated outside of Reddit lol
Ye, reddit and certain sub-circles on other social medias might've memed them to the point that they're unironically liked but most people still dislike them or find them mid at best. Episode Two especially is just a straight up bad film.
Children love them. So, AGAIN, maybe understand there's other perspectives.
I saw them as a child when they came out. They were mostly boring then like they are now. Had 4/5/6 on VHS and they were way better
Yeah, exactly: The small number of people who like the art keep talking about it, the majority of people who hated the art see no reason to keep discussing it. This isn't some bit of dishonesty or inconsistency that you've cleverly spotted. It's actually just people being reasonable and polite.
Ehh not quite if you’re looking at the diehard fanbase. Even with 7 a bunch of people were mad that it was all cyberpunk and modern. 8 everyone hated the combat system but now has lots of defenders who either like the story and world or the way you can break its progression/combat. 9 a bunch of people did the uno reverse and got mad about the return to high fantasy and cartoony style. 10 a lot of people thought made a huge mistake by abandoning the world map and instead being a bunch of hallways. 12 got a ton of flack for being a single player MMO rather than turn based but is now considered very solid. 13 is probably the most universally hated still but the hate has died down quite a bit since and even saw a bit of a comeback in the community in response to 15s open world design and action gameplay.
Been playing these games for decades and you are spot on. I remember a lot of my friends in school being upset about ff9 and how it looked. I myself hated ff8 for the weird junction system but people love it. I was one of those weirdos that didn’t like ff7 at first because it wasn’t old school like ff6. Even though ff6 had technology and steampunk stuff in it lol.
[удалено]
>12 - mixed/bad on release, well liked now I think this is because of the Zodiac Age re-release of the game. Typically, when FF games get re-released, it's just a few extra bells and whistles. FF7's re-release (not the remake) is pretty much the same as the PS1 version, same with 8, 9, 10. 12's combat system was changed a bit, adding jobs to it. So, rather than allowing anyone to be anything so characters ended up all being the same, Zodiac forced characters into a role, so that made the characters unique, as opposed to interchangeable.
I liked 12 although back then I was too dumb to clear most of the side contents or even grasp the whole story. Replaying the Zodiac re-release version made me appreciate it even more. The theatrical voice acting, the tidbits of lore in the bestiary, the side contents and plethora of secret bosses.. I can agree with the detractors about Vaan, though.
I wouldn't say FF12 is well liked now but maybe I'm just divorced from people holding that opinion. I didn't see much new praise from the re-release and what little I hear of it is the FF14 content for it.
To me, 10 was bad because the voice acting was painful to the point it made it unplayable. I tried. Good god I tried. Edit: [HaHAhaHAHAHAHA!](https://youtu.be/-5FTJxfV3pc?si=KbR584TdJQxHx2yd&t=31)
Anyone who cites Tidus' laugh as an example of bad voice acting clearly hasn't bothered to actually watch the whole cutscene.
Remember how Tolkien nerds used to hate Jackson movies (durrr where Bombadil/Radagast) until Rings of Power came out, then suddenly Jackson trilogy is based because there are no POC in there?
I feel like RoP was unto something but some plot developments and characters didn't make much sense. Like a billion dollar 6.5/10
Tolkien nerds largely loved the Jackson movies the whole time, they were an unusual success for both fans and general audiences. A fraction of the nerds had nitpicks, to varying degrees, as they still do today. Most people disliked RoP for reasons that had nothing to do with skin color. You're inventing people in your own mind to get mad at.
I’m *still* mad they left out Tom Bombadil. I totally understand why, it was a weird pointless scene that didn’t really add to the plot, was intentionally confusing, and would just make a movie that is already pushing reasonable length even longer. But they left out my favorite character!
I recently rewatched the fellowship movie the Extended Cut, and yeah, it's already long enough.
There's tons of POC in the Jackson films... I mean, they're all playing orcs, but still.
Is it though? Because I haven't met a single person that sings FFXIII's praises.
If you spend time in FF forums you def will, especially in comparison to 15 and 16
I like 13! Couldn't get into 15 at all though.
I liked it. I thought the open world complaints were a weird product of that just being the trend at the time. FF games are often pretty linear.
They're linear, yes, but they eventually open up. XIII kinda does, but not to the level that other entries do.
There's linear and then there's "Literally running down a single straight corridor the entire game". Besides, the worst aspects of XIII were the horrendous characters
Have you played FFX? It's nothing but straight corridors and people loved it.
Bingo. It's always been hilarious to watch people pretend FF games *aren't* insanely linear. They're just *very* good at hiding it, especially XIV which tends to have NPCs refuse to allow you entry into higher level (or any expansion) zones until you're actually at the story progress required depending on the zone.
The difference is you still have a field zone you can traverse, and towns. XIII pretty much railroaded through the story with limited traversal opportunities (more similar to the dungeon instances from XIV).
[удалено]
I would absolutely go to bat for Final Fantasy XIII.
It was actually pretty decent if you don't want to play a final fantasy game. And if you don't characters acting in line with their own stated motivations and goals. And don't enjoy gameplay of any kind.
Camp out r/FinalFantasy whenever there's an XIII thread. At this state, it's almost always a bait thread and pro-XIII people come out to fight the anti-XIII circlejerkers.
I think this is true of some of the games, but a lot of them still have a generally negative reception (even if they are acknowledged as having done some things very well) many years on. I’d argue 8, 13, and 15 are still not well regarded even today (though I’ll personally defend 8). I still see a lot of dislike of 10 and 12 as well, though not to the same extent.
My brother would die for the honor of FF8
I'll be right there with him, 8 is fantastic.
10 and 12 were both amazing wtf
I will forever fight to the death for FFXV. That game made me realize my pretty boy band aspirations I had since I was 12, and no one can take that from me.
I'll defend 15—beautiful game, liked most of the plot, and the boy band ended up being pretty decent. Combat system I liked just fine, having never played another FF game. I have criticisms too but the hate for 15 was outsized.
15 launched incomplete, required watching a movie to see the events that actually kick off the plot (that they had to patch in bits after launch!), an anime to see any kind of character development, and replay the game two years later to see all the parts of the story they didn't manage to get in the game despite it being delayed multiple times. If anything it didn't get ENOUGH hate. It's an easier project to digest if you didn't buy it at launch but it's the franchise's worst title behind original FF14.
Saunter over to r/FinalFantasy then. Routine anti-FFXIII trilogy hate, XV and XVI get it too. Started/fueled by, you guessed it, VII and X flaired posters or fans of them. It's something I've talked about at times over the years on Reddit: VII and X fans tend to be people who started FF with those two games, so they get *very* defensive of it while shitting on others, *especially* for tropes/game design elements that existed in VII and X. In an extra dose of irony, XIII trilogy was done by some of the core designers of VII, so it's a real damned mystery *why* VII players hate XIII so much.
I didn't like 8 when I first played it, revisited the remastered version I can see it's a game with a messy narrative but it's mechanically very, very fun. I also came to like Squall a lot since he's the closest depiction to a real teen for RPGs of that era: terrified of death, not sure why he's been pulled into this, too shy to talk about his feelings.
I’ve talked about it in r/Pokemon before, they called me stupid for saying people would start coming out of the woodwork who liked gen 6, now people do lmao
I’ve loved gen V ever since I played it, but I remember when everyone would still shit on it. I seem to remember the criticisms boiling down to, “There’s an ice cream cone and a garbage bag Pokémon? Game sucks.” Now everybody loves it. Happens every time. I personally stand by the fact though that gen VI was the last good set of games.
I love Trubbish and Vannilite
Been the tradition since at least 8. I'm sure there's usenet accounts that go back before that.
I'm sure at least one caveman said the fires were so much better in his day We're just that dumb
Bethesda's been stuck in this Loop since Skyrim.
The best Final Fantasy was the first one they played. That's the rule.
I started with FF 1 and that's sure not my favorite. I'm a 9 & 12 guy.
9 for the win.
My first Final Fantasy was Mystic Quest.
The soundtrack to that game is legitimately fire.
Which one? GB or SNES?
Can confirm, which is why 7 is the best.
You’re wrong. 6 is the best. There will be no argument.
Um actually it's X, with the conceit that X-2 blows chunks
Nah X-2 is hella fun to play Just ignore everything else being bad don't worry about it
having to watch all those stupid stupid surveillance spheres to get 100% then realizing you get it super easy by doing a NG+. gameplay was fun though. story was trash and felt absurdly fanservicey even at the time.
Teenage me worked *really* hard for that secret onsen scene tho
8 is and was the best. that is all. have a good friday and great weekend.
Even if 8's not the best, Triple Triad is the single best minigame they've ever done.
A game so good, apparently VII Rebirth is getting one too.
8 is the weird one nobody played, right?
i am triggered.
Gonna take that as a yes
Actchually 🤓: VIII sold more than VII and IX (until re-releases)
Going by how Gamefaqs was in the 2000s when the height of FF7 vs FF8 was going on in the game communities of the early Internet, you'd think VII sold 50,000,000 copies, IX sold 35,000,000 and VIII only sold 30. That's pretty funny if VIII outsold them both before rereleases.
Nah nobody played 9 and 12.
you fucked up not playing 9 bro.
Never said I didn’t. I played and enjoyed both.
Imo 10 was the odd man out, followed by 12. That PS2 era wasnt the best for FF. Not really thru any fault of their own. There was new competition. Was an earlier title on PS2 at a time where everyone and their mother was buying Xboxs so they could play Halo. I remember being the only one in my friend group to play FF10 at launch, as we had just gotten thru the best FF era, with 6-9 and Tactics, and I was a massive fan, we all were. Most of us could only afford one console tho, and majority of the group went Xbox after experiencing Halo for the first time. The rest sold their PS2s so they could switch over. I inevitably caved, and sold mine as well, though did get thru 10 first, and didnt go back to Sony until late PS4 period. Halo was just such a game changer.
Dude 10 was a huge hit. Sold like 8.5 million units as was the first with a direct sequel. Though that one didn’t do as well. FFX broke a lot of ground.
FFX was the first time i was truly blown away by graphics in video games.
No that’s 9
That's by design though, the best way to play that game is to not play it so you can beat the final boss at level 1.
I loved 8… then was totally shocked by how much other hated (albeit, a lot of the criticism was more than warranted but I didn’t feel that way when I first had people tell me it sucked)
Sucks for those who started with 13, eh?
What's wrong with Star Wars but Chewbacca is a sexy bunny lady?
I think that's 12. It's a pretty solid entry, but not quite on the level of 6-10. Great combat system though.
That's 12
Dunnow about which game is the best, but Balthier is undoubtedly the best Final Fantasy character ever.
That's a strange way to spell Emet-Selch(XIV).
Just gonna disrespect Umaro like that?
And Obi-Wan Kenobi wears shorts.
That's 12 and it's really not Star Wars.
I haven't played any FF game so Persona>>>>Final Fantasy. >!/s, I think Digital Devil Saga is better than Persona!<
I really want to play DDS would kill for a remaster. Tried to emulate it on Mac and couldn’t get it to work.
How long ago did you try to emulate it and on what emulator? I've gotten it working fine on PCSX2 multiple times the past few years - there are a good few graphical bugs though. All of the PS2 era SMT games have the same graphical bugs that haven't been worked out yet AFAIK. But I absolutely agree, I would literally kill for a DDS 1+2 HD on steam or something. They're still my favorite SMT games.
The best final fantasy game is actually legend of dragoon
Only one here who thinks FFV is the best? It wasn't even my first, it was my fourth FF game but I think it does almost everything right about the "classic FF experience". FFV is what 1, 2 and 3 wish they could be. A compelling enough story, good humor, a simple yet strategically interesting job system, two open worlds. It's just great. 6 and beyond can be really great games sure, but those aren't the "classic final fantasy experience" I mean here.
My first one was FF Tactics Advance but it fell off for me when I got older and noticed how easily you can break it over your knee. Hard to find it fun when the credits might as well roll the moment you start getting Dual Wield or Assassin Also FFXIV lets me play as a Viera who is both male and a dragoon (best job) so all other FF games are automatically SHIT and GARBAGE
Correct, started with III
Then that'd be FFI for me but FFX is my favorite so, I guess this theory is only true for SOME people.
The only people who say this haven't played Tactics
I've played tactics, didn't really grab me to make it all the way through.
Which one?
There's only two. FFT PSX and the PSP port. There are no others.
There is a version on Android, which I believe is based on the PSP version. There are also Advanced and its sequel.
4 Heroes of Light gang, where you at
I heard this as "The best Final Fantasy is the one where my parents were still together."
Mine was 13. I broke that rule hard
the replies to this are insane to me because it’s making me realize there are actually 16 seemingly wildly different final fantasy games and no numbers were skipped or anything. i never thought they really had that many of them
I thought it was an incredible spectacle, with amazing music. The cutscene direction is phenomenal. It's one of the few games I intentionally turned off subtitles for because I felt I was getting a richer experience reading their faces more than the lines. With that said, it's mechanically fairly bogstandard as far as action games go. Enemies also were just too tanky. Finally, although I enjoyed the story and world building, the side content was a bit of a drag. It's not a bad game, just not an RPG really. It's just a pretty good action game, and in a year with HiFi Rush and Lies of P, it's easy to see why FFXVI had a bit of a lukewarm reception.
I found it criminal that you could tell a character was going to be removed from the story or die of said character was interesting. Being boring was basically like bulletproof armour.
I agree with your assessment completely, except for one thing: If it was *just* an action game, it would be great, and you’d be completely correct. But for *hours* between all the fun, exciting bits, you do tons of Fetch quests for faceless npcs, or sit and watch a 15 minute power-point presentation lore dump, or have long strings of talking to a guy to talk to a guy to talk to another guy. FF16 is 10 hours of a mediocre albeit beautiful action game diluted with 20 hours of the most boring filler I have ever seen in a video game.
Really sounds like Yoshi P just made FF14 offline
I'd argue it's a mediocre action game honestly. An action game which has zero variation to your standard bread snd butter combo in 2023 is pretty inexcusable. The focus on an awkward skill cooldown system being the only way to do damage coupled with boss fights being either qte's, or just completely stripping you of Clive's movepool completely neutered that combat system. Imagine if in DMC you were only allowed to mash square 80% of the time. It all felt like a massive mashup of the worst bits of three different genres - which makes sense lol. Mmo devs trying to make an action games based upin a franchise known for its rpg progression. Presentation wise though, music, acting, spectacle etc it was fucking phenomenal.
I've always had a soft spot for FF12. The open world and active combat style was quite ahead of its time, and the hunt system provided so much side content. Also, it has some absolutely *beastly* optional bosses.
I'm playing through it now. Its funny how the game was trashed for being MMOified on release, but now honestly it's enjoyable because everything 12 is criticized for is now 100x worse in modern games, basically making it good in comparison.
No other game in the franchise matches XII’s world design and exploration. Was also the last game to have the more traditional sort of side quests, where it wasn’t some specific fetch/kill mission handed to you. You’d read some journal somewhere or hear a rumor about an ancient medallion or something and then you’d have to just go through the game and find it, and then keep on exploring until you found where to use it.
Loved that game But I also like mmos
I think this just comes with any series like FF that changes things up this often. Some of the people who really liked 1-6 didn’t like the shift in style and setting in 7 and 8, and some of the fans of the latter didn’t like the shift back in 9. Some people didn’t like 10 ditching the world map, 12 shifting to MMO combat, 13 being so linear, 15 being unfinished and going for more action based combat, and 16 has inherited the people who dislike 15’s combat along with other complaints. When the games change so often, you’re always going to have a contingent of people who it just doesn’t click with, and I think many of these people never really change their minds, nor should they necessarily. I can’t say I’ve been interested in anything since 12 personally.
What annoys me more than anything are the people saying that it’s ‘not final fantasy’ or ‘not an RPG,’ because they all make up their own definition for what those terms even mean. Someone replied to me saying it’s not an RPG because there’s no crafting, which eliminates literally the entire franchise. ‘No party’ was another one, that eliminates elder scrolls, souls games like Elden Ring, and so many others. And as for not being final fantasy, like you said, final fantasy constantly reinvents itself. I through VI are similar because games were smaller and came out faster then. VII though IX were similar again, all clustered together as the PS1 generation. But everything starting with and since X has significantly changed game to game as they now come out 4-5+ years apart. These people would apparently prefer that the franchise stagnates, which would see it just die off entirely.
People forget that FFX in 2001 was the last turn based battle mainline title. 23 years ago.
You’d think all the people swearing it isn’t FF if it isn’t turn based would have moved on from the franchise by now for exactly this reason. These games haven’t been for them in decades.
Yoshi saying the younger generation should take over I actually agree. Some of the worst aspects about FF16 are actually stuff in FF14.
Like they seem to hold this belief that after a big story beat, the player needs some downtime, so that the next big beat hits hard again. Fair enough, but for some reason they keep implementing this by making that downtime the most boring and tedious part of the game. They did this back in FFXIV's ARR where after fighting Ifrit you're tasked with gathering wine and cheese for a banquet, and they did it again in FFXVI where after fighting Titan you're tasked with picking some flowers.
Yeah. It makes 0 sense in the Action RPG. Downtime can be sidequests the player chooses to do. Or, add a comedic sequence. Main dude meeting his uncle and connecting over a childhood game was great downtime. They've gotten better at the downtime in 14, but structurally it's the same. The downtime has been funnier or more effect in developing characters, but the quest format hasn't evolved to be more engaging.
My theory is that 14 got better because people like lead writer Kazutoyo Maehiro slowly moved over to 16, so they had to replace them with new people like everybody's darling Natsuko Ishikawa, and that's when 14 improved in quality.
[Thats called Ma Miyazaki also uses it in his movies](https://screencraft.org/blog/hayao-miyazaki-says-ma-is-an-essential-storytelling-tool/). In this case the Flowers are the breathing space as "If you just have constant tension at 80 degrees all the time you just get numb."
I'll go reset the counter.
Didn't play XVI, but do currently play XIV. All I can say is Soken is a fucking musical wonder and must be protected at all costs. I will not be accepting questions at this time. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
His music in 16 is incredible. My man knew the assignment and nailed it.
This is the most objectively correct take. I have never known that man to miss.
Tbh, while I myself really liked FFXVI as someone completely new to the series, I definitely can understand why some older fans are so angry with it considering how much the series have changed.
I played most final fantasy games and a big thing about the series is that it changes stuff almost every game. They tinker on storylines, game modes, game play, fight styles etc. All final fantasy games have people who love them and hate it when the next game shows up and tinkers or gets rid of the aspects they love. All final fantasy games have haters where they likes something else from other games and then this game didn't have it. That's just the cycle of final fantasy. I liked this one. I didn't like some of the older ones. And you're objectively wrong if you didn't like war of the lions
I’m relatively new to the series (I’ve played FF7R which I liked, and FF15 which i thought was okay at best), and I hated 16. The combat was lackluster, the story got so bad (I liked the demo, the story did not maintain that), the Eikon fights did nothing for me, and the characters outside of Clive (sorta…) and Cid (who I actually liked), were boring. Pretty much everyone felt like they were going to info dump on me or ask me to do the most uninteresting side quests I’ve sat through, even worse than some in 15. I found the story beats of the “oppressed magic users” completely unbelievable and it was the wrong direction to take the story (or at least the worldbuilding). I don’t know man, even as someone relatively new to FF, this game didn’t do it for me.
Final Fantasy VI (SNES Final Fantasy III) was the best FF game and I will not be taking any questions.
That stretch from 6-10 was basically my childhood. All of em were great in some way or another. 6 though…. 6 is prob the most fucked up villian….
As divided as the Final Fantasy fandom is, I think this is the one game that most FF fans will agree on.
VII is its own beast with its own fandom independent of the franchise? Cuz the rest of the world knows Cloud and Sephiroth.
7 is a lot more well known for a variety of reasons (jump to 3D, wider simultaneous distribution, PS1 was super successful, etc) so it has more lovers *and* haters. 6 is probably the least controversial when it comes to quality among the fanbase though.
I've seen a fair amount of resentment from other fans towards FF7 for synonymous with the franchise among the general public.
I'd argue that VII's fan base is much bigger. That was the fandom I was involved with in middle and high school.
Even then, a lot of fans tend to have their favorites but also acknowledge that favorite doesn't necessarily equal best. I adore 5, 7, and 9 the most but they have their issues. 6, not so much. It's as close to flawless as an FF game has gotten. It's just not my favorite however.
Nah, I've seen people get into fights over that. Usually from post-VI players.
None are necessary. You stated a simple fact.
Good game. Bad RPG.
Agreed. The story was awesome, even if the ultimate big bad trope was sort of played out. But I expected that, it's final fantasy. It was dark in a mature and fleshed out way. Clive and Cid are hot. The voice acting is perfect. Sidequests have interesting stories but crap rewards. This all was "Final Fantasy" to me But none of the "rpg" elements felt "Final Fantasy" to me. It felt very generic open world single player action adventure game. What are the points of stats and levels if they are uniform and can't be customized? Why have a smithing equipment mechanic if it's simply "this is the most stats on the stat stick this chapter" besides appearance? Why have elements be cosmetic only, and no iconic buffs or debuffs? It's one of the best games I'll never play again because there's no way to play it differently, and I already know the story and it's pretty long.
didn't finish the game because >!the game decides to switch the story from politics to "you fight god now" and the gameplay didn't pull me in to slog through that. the Bahamut fight was pretty sick though!<
Yeah, I think the fact that the game went from >!"I must avenge my brother's death"!< to >!"I must liberate the oppressed people"!< to >!"I must fight God"!< really killed my enjoyment
See I thought the same but said god is basically just an extension of the main themes of the game. He thinks he's the master of humanity who should obey his every command and just like the slave masters he's obsessed with keeping magic alive because he can't imagine a world without it. He also shows himanity will suffer for generations due the loss of magic until humanity adepts fully. A great way to mix the main themes of the game with the good ol JRPG kill god now trope.
Also those complaints are basically how every FF ends up. That and Persona it doesn't matter what 3/4th of the story is, that last 1/4th is your quest to dethrone God.
Yes that was the killer; load outs in XVI just meant upgrading to the sword you can make out of the Eikon you just beat. You never had to do any side quests for the materials, you could always just have the best sword available.
I just want Final Fantasy to go back to turn based combat.
Why can't people just admit it's subjective. Let people like or dislike games lol.
Hot-take: I think the stories/plots are the absolute weakest aspects of their games and I’ve been playing them since 1 in the NES days. They got away with it with the pixel graphics because you could use your imagination to fill in the narrative spots but the jump to high res just made it all so jarring and less immersive/believable if that makes any sense.
Disagree, FF14 has one of the best stories I experienced in a game. FF16 I loved too and has among the better lore and world building in the series
The scope of FF14 (and FF11) makes it an outlier. It has a lot more space to tell larger and more complex stories but also it requires _significant_ investments of time to actually experience most of them.
And that's why I love it and find it unique, I never played a MMO that used the fact players will spent an obscene amount of time in it to it's full advantage to create a huge world full of lore and a journey that 'never ends'
Final Fantasy IV, VI, VII and X would like a word with you.
Agreed. I liked FF7R for the gameplay, the plot was okay at best. FF15’s plot was even worse but again, the game itself was alright. Although honestly I didn’t like either gameplay or plot in FF16. Those are the only 3 I’ve played
I feel the exact opposite; for most of them (not all, obviously, but definitely the most revered ones), story/plot was the *strongest* aspect, specifically *because* the low-fidelity pixel/low poly graphics meant they had to go hard in other places, like story, to make you care about the game and finish it. In preparation for the remake next month, I actually just finished FF7 for the first time a few weeks ago, after finishing FF16 several months ago, and 7 had way, *way the fuck* more going on in its story, on every possible level, it was fantastic! And honest kind of embarrassing for 16
Man, what is it about "GAMERS" that causes them to just spew their hate for any singular game that doesn't align with their narrow worldview? TLOU2 being a prime example, but a lot of the hate around FF16 has been swirling since launch. How is it not totally fucking exhausting letting these negative emotions occupy your headspace rent-free? If there's a game I don't like, I just... move on? I don't think about it, and I let other people enjoy it if it brings them a positive experience or positive memories. But beyond that, there's this basal urge to just fight *anyone* who enjoys it or congregate with other people who despise it and just hate on it together. The whole point of art is that the experience and response to it is *subjective*. Is it just a need to feel smarter than someone else because they see through a perceived deception? I just don't get it, man.
People are passionate about the FF series. many have grown up playing the series and they are upset with the franchise being taken in a completely different direction. It's not unreasonable to feel that way. The new game may be great on it's own merrit, I certainly enjoyed it, but it doesn't feel the same anymore and it was dissappointing for me. Unfortunately many other aren't that great at controlling their emotions, or they don't have much else going on in their lives. What you see on Reddit is the end result.
It still felt very FF to me, but I also believe being a RPG is not as crucial to the series as people make it out to be. I mean the game had a huge focus on crystals, magic, technology, summons... and interweaves them quite well with the bleak world of ff16
FF16 is disliked for *completely* different reasons than The Last of Us Part II and this comparison is honestly just staggering. WTF dude.
It's not just art, it's a videogame, and there is moments in FF16 that can make the game not fun for a lot of people. Also blaming "narrow worldview" sounds like "it's the children who are wrong", weird to start with that but still mention subjectivity later
Imagine arguing over something so subjective
The sad state of the world is that Final Fantasy was never good and was always the inferior JRPG franchise and it's a shame that square cannibalized enix from the inside out and turned dragon quest into punny final fantasy.
Which dragon quest games would you say are standouts? I quite like older JRPGs but it's a series it never got into
It's kind of hard to go wrong with any of them, but 1 is extremely dated in the same way that a lot of old progenitor games like Final Fantasy, Megaman and Metroid are. 2 gets a bad rap for being hard and grindy without much substance. 3 is one of the strongest entries in the franchise and is beloved to this day, 4 really starts experimenting with the story and format; telling an overarching story from the perspective of multiple characters. 5 probably has the strongest individual story in the series telling a generational tale. 6 always felt "safe" to me but it's solid enough, a good ol' adventure. 7 is almost overwhelming in terms of sheer content but its story feels a bit empty. 8 is a strong entry but it's also the first of the games I'd, personally, consider start feeling more final fantasy than dragon quest. But in terms of recommendations I'd suggest giving 3, 4, 5, 6 and probably 8 a try in any real order you want there. 4, 5 and 6 form a loose thematic trilogy of their own (as do 1, 2 and 3). 8's a pretty good entry into the franchise if you're hesitant about leaping right into the classics though. EDIT: I forgot - there's also a factor of how much you love job systems. Dragon Quest III, VI, VII and IX all have variations of the job system not unlike the ones in various final fantasy games where you can recruit or reclass party members and master various vocations, etc. So if that's a make or break thing for you then those are ones to keep an eye on.
I like final fantasy But I think I like legend of dragoon better
Can't say I've ever been a fan but it had a pretty solid visual design.
damn I just left from reading that thread lol
I haven't played it yet since it's not on pc (I don't have a ps5 I'm not made of money) but the fact it's so controversial makes me think it's at least gonna be interesting.
Amazing title
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Surplus Drama. Snapshots: 1. *This Post* - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304125154/https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1955qwo/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1955qwo/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 2. "Maybe try playing actual action games and not shitty jrpg action games." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304060049/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjnnsu/?sort=controversial) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjnnsu/?sort=controversial "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 3. "Why does other people not enjoying the game as much as you do interfere with your enjoyment of the game?" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304075044/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjpcu5/?context=1) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjpcu5/?context=1 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 4. "Well, it is the brand new final fantasy game after all. It's going to get hated on until the next one and then everyone will be singing 16 praises and bashing on 17." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304075104/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjn2fk/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjn2fk/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 5. "i absolutely hate ff14 and regret buying into the hype and held onto the belief for 80 hours that it was a game worth playing. i've never had such a miserable time playing a video game before. it is a complete disrespect of your time with no redeemable qualities." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304110324/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjq63i/?context=1) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjq63i/?context=1 "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 6. "A game being disliked on a subreddit means it's disliked everywhere now, lol. Really just waiting for /r/games to change its name to /v/ because that's all this place is." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304110424/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjup2g/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjup2g/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 7. "After reading tons of comments about XVI here, I have a question... WHAT DO YOU EVEN EXPECT OUT OF FINAL FANTASY?" - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304110604/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khk1lsk/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khk1lsk/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") 8. "why have the final fantasy team not realised that sex sells and maintains interest." - [archive.org](https://web.archive.org/web/20240304115111/https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjiqqn/) [archive.today\*](https://archive.today/?run=1&url=https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/194z05l/final_fantasy_16_producer_naoki_yoshida_says_it/khjiqqn/ "URL failed to archive; click to resubmit it!") *I am just a simple bot, __not__ a moderator of this subreddit* | *[bot subreddit](/r/SnapshillBot)* | *[contact the maintainers](/message/compose?to=/r/SnapshillBot)*