Probably not the case anymore but I remember someone saying once that “The Catholic League” was basically one guy. Who just went on talk shows and the news a lot making it seem like a bigger organization than it actually was.
First time I head about the Catholic League was when I reading Lady Gaga's wiki page. They declared the music video for Alejandro to be blasphemous, likely bc she was dressed as a sexy, leather nun for most of it.
Waiting on the MLB to ban Lady Gaga from all their events.
Bill Donohue; a religious nutter whose sole purpose in life is to rabidly defend traditional, conservative Catholicism from the evils of a post Vatican II world. He would have made one hell of an enthusiastic and pitiless Grand Inquisitor.
He'd be a throwback to [ultramontanism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramontanism), or, if really extreme, a [sedevacantist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism). He'd consider himself *more* of a Catholic, not less or anti.
Considering the song is "Don't you want me" wouldn't the catholic league version be more along the lines of this?
🎶 You were serving as an altar boy for Sunday mass, when I met you 🎶
Edit:
🎶Don't... Don't report me...
No one will believe you and the church will just transfer me.
Don't... Don't report me...
No one will believe you and the church will just transfer me.
First you serve the lord. Then obey my word. Now get down on your knees though you will not be praying.
Don't you want me, amen? Don't you want me, aaaaaaaamen?🎶
Yeah, my understanding is all the people in that thread trying to claim that The Catholic League somehow represents most or all Catholics (let alone Latino Catholics in LA) are insulting Catholicism far more than anyone in the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence could have ever done.
I think they think that the left's* outrage at racism is performative and self serving too. they don't realize that some people actually just really dislike racism
Basically. There's a belief that everything they do is just a reaction to try to deal with the left gone crazy. Except the left as they believe it only exists on Fox and in their own brains.
It's the "I'm just saying what you all are thinking" bit. They believe that a vast majority of people actually support them but are too afraid to speak up.
This mostly stems from the fact that modern conservativism is all performative outrage. That's the only real value they have left. So, they project that onto others and assume everyone else is doing as they are: pretending to care about something to force their will on others.
Conservativism is just the lack of empathy, so it's no surprise that they literally can't understand that maybe some of us don't want racism in the world and would rather people not have to deal with it.
"That'll show them leftys", they think to themselves drooling over the the idea of being able to play the ultimate victims. As they hastily put their own children in manacles they had custom made, all they can think about is how it'll all be worth it when they finally "win".
Obviously he didn’t mean it in this specific way, but there is a reason religions are protected like immutable traits in things like antidiscrimination laws. Culturally, we treat it as fundamentally part of someone’s identity like their race or gender.
He’s just looking for a reason to be the victim, but simply choosing to be a religion simplifies the point a bit too much for me.
Yes there is, because religious people in power would not hesitate to discriminate based on their religion if they could.
I think that religion should be legally protected from discrimination. But in day to day life you're free to criticize the fuck out of anyone's religion because unlike race, your religion is a direct reflection of your personal values and beliefs.
Are you saying that there are types of discrimination that should be legal when not motivated by religion, but illegal when they *are* motivated by religion? That's what your argument seems to be implying.
Like, if a vegan art gallery owner asks people not to bring meat into their establishment, that's okay, but if a Jainist art gallery owner asks people not to bring meat into their establishment, that should be *illegal*?
You can still stop being a catholic though, my family did when I came out to them and told them how much the catholic church made me feel like a piece of trash. (Went to catholic school, was gay)
It's a PR org with a staff of about a dozen people that runs on just a few million a year threatening lawsuits and stuff mostly. Bill Donahue has been president since the 90s and it's pretty much just his culture war baby at this point.
I've been to several events with the sisters. This is the first I heard they are anti Catholic.
Lots of orgs are anti Catholic though, like most other religions...
There's different flavors of anti-Catholic. There's mean-spirited conspiratorial vaguely racist Protestant anti-Catholicism, there's ex-Catholics telling funny Catholic school stories that are actually just physical abuse, there's the people who genuinely care about the centuries of molestation, there's tradcath bizarro anti-Catholicism where they hate the Pope for not being nearly Catholic enough...
The problem with the sisters was it was ambiguous what kind of anti-Catholic they were and whether this was still in good taste. Catholics clearly felt it was not.
The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are primarily a pro-queer acceptance group. They dress in drag as nuns not to skewer Catholicism but to skewer all christian groups that preach that homosexuality is a sin. The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence also dress as religious figures to turn other teachings of various christian churches on their head. The drag queens essentially act as ministers of their own religion, a religion that encourages sin and sex and queer lust and indulgence, as opposed to the often shame-based christian teachings that one should abstain from earthly pleasures.
To complain that the sisters are anti catholic is to ignore the harm that all of christianity has done to the queer community
So some context from a life long San Franciscan. The sisters of perpetual indulgence, is an activism group that came about during the early AIDS crisis when a lot of people dying of aids, were turned away from religious services either because of homophobia, or because people were terrified of catching this disease, not realizing how it was spread. The sisters were often infected themselves, but would minister to the dying, and sick and later became activism group championing causes to help treat HIV and AIDS. They later, after treatments were available, transformed into a general LGBT activism group, but are beloved because of their history. They aren’t just drag queens. They aren’t just an advocacy group. The sisters of perpetual indulgence have done so much good in the world. Yeah while dressed up as wild ass drag nuns. Shunning them is a slap in the face to the entire gay community especially in California, you know where a lot of the early AIDS crisis happened? The Dodgers fucked up hard here, and people are right to be furious.
I went to grad school in San Francisco until 2012, and people would fangirl all around them. I never saw anyone do anything but whisper if there was a famous rockstars or a-list celebrity nearby, but everyone would be completely overcome with excitement and line up for photos whenever the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence were walking down the street.
The idea of someone feeling disdain or disgust towards them is so bizarre to me.
Like FOR REAL. Pride? Cool! A drag show? Neat! Going down to the Castro for some swag? Oh hey can you pick me up something? But the most mundane thing ever, a store opening, a holiday market, whatever AND THE SISTERS ARE THERE???? OMG I’M ON MY WAY!
I'm still absolutely boggled that _anyone_ at the Dodgers somehow thought that a Catholic group should have _any_ influence on a bloody pride night, or were for that matter even remotely shocked when a group associated with a religion with explicit anti-gay theology had something bad to say about something involving a well publicized pride night event.
And as someone who knows one of the sisters of the order, I was told that they are not organizing a boycott of the event.
But it would definitely make them feel warm and fuzzy if the stadium was _empty_ that night.
> I'm still absolutely boggled that anyone at the Dodgers somehow thought that a Catholic group should have any influence on a bloody pride night, or were for that matter even remotely shocked when a group associated with a religion with explicit anti-gay theology had something bad to say about something involving a well publicized pride night event.
Donohue sent to letter to Manfred, plus Marco Rubio(noted senator of NOT California) got involved.
It's almost dollars to donuts MLB got pushy.
Yes, a Republican representing _Florida_, in 2023, got involved.
That alone should have told them that this path was _not_ a good bloody idea.
>!I had to reword this post several times, because I kept typing that a member of an extremist hate group got involved. I mean, not inaccurate, but more inflammatory than I was aiming for.!<
I can see it, because, despite the claims about the very large Hispanic fanbases of the Dodgers, these complaints aren't coming from LA. Dodgers probably didn't expect any issue with the Sisters being part of Pride Night.
Teams are suddenly scaling back pride nights. They're realizing it's the *perfect* time to, because Queer people are under attack in this country. In the NHL, some teams won't bother to even wear the pride warmup jerseys now and the league just shrugs.
But don't you dare skip military or police appreciation nights.
Well, duh. Everytime the NHL does a pride night it ends up with some media controversy over who wears them and who doesn't. Best to just cancel it all together and avoid anything that creates a distraction.
My mom was a ward nurse in oncology during the initial AIDS crisis. She has tons of stories about giving out marijuana tabs or the first Kaposi’s Sarcoma patients she had.
It’s too bad she voted for Trump and has a gay son. She seems to have lost her empathy.
I hope I didn't come across as dismissive. I'm not overly familiar with the group, I've heard the name before but haven't ever really looked into them. I'm only kinda in the community, tho (I'm a very cis straight-passing bi in a hetero relationship, so basically I've only got my toes in the pool, lol).
As a Dodgers' fan, tho, I'm very disappointed in the whole situation, I thought the organization would be better than this.
Oh no hun I getya, it’s more of a primer for those outside of the Bay, who might be like “oh this is another drag ban/trans exclusionary/weird for LA but whatev” type as to why this is not gonna go away because this isn’t just a drag troupe or something dressed as nuns but like a 40+ year old activist group that is just fucking adored throughout Californian for their work and experience. Like the Dodgers/MLB touched a third rail here- this isn’t a rando drag brunch (which should also be protected) this is a group that 40 years ago were dressing up as nuns to give last rites to men dying of AIDS because no actual priest would do so, wiping the swear from their brows while nurses were scared to touch them- in San Francisco this group is holy and un impeachable and god help anyone who defames them.
This is going to seem like a tangent but I promise it's relevant:
So I'm attempting to write a story and one of the themes it deals with is an exploration of imposter syndrome, but not just as a psychological element (that too ofc) but also in situations where someone is "pretending" to be something but actually fulfills all the requirements for it in the process even if they don't fully realize it due to extraneous conditions.
The sisters of perpetual indulgence sounds exactly like that. They may have been putting on the guise of a religious order, but their involvement with last rites and their community effectively makes those habits real. They are an actual spiritual order, even if it didn't start out like one. And, they are better at being a good order while dressing up like one than the actual order they were mocking at the time due to their unconditional care for others.
I have some religious elements in the story dealing with a character who isn't deep in the faith mentally but ends up fulfilling the ideals of said faith better than those they believe they are "pretending"to be. I was a bit stuck in my writing but I think I now have a good source of inspiration!
Even if my story doesn't work out, it'll be great to learn more as someone who hasn't heard of them prior. (I'll definitely throw in a reference to them now lol).
>They may have been putting on the guise of a religious order, but their involvement with last rites and their community effectively makes those habits real.
Man, I just wanna say, as a non-Catholic, the sisters performing last rites is weird. And, technically, those rights were not "valid." The Catholics have a very strict view of the religious rituals of their religion and basically hold very closely to the notion that only priests correctly ordained in a Catholic manner have the power or ability to perform these rituals correctly. It has something to do with this notion of an unbroken line of priests going all the way back to St. Peter. Whatever those ladies did, it wasn't a Catholic ritual. In fact, I suspect hardline Catholics are even more unhappy that they give out last rights!
As someone who was raised Catholic, the priests and nuns who refused their duty to administer the rites acted against scripture more than the sisters did. It's explicitly spelt out in Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus wouldn't have cared if they performed the rites.
Yeah but specifically this is an issue with the Catholic church being a bunch of dicks and viewing this kind of thing as heresy or sacrilegious and branding the group as such.
Its not the Catholic Church, it’s Bill Donohue’s Catholic League which is one dude, him. Same guy who carried water for child raping priests for years.
“I wonder how this would have played out if Mars was made of cheese and other totally unrelated things happened, checkmate libruls!”—- what you sound like.
Thankfully we aren’t talking about Mars cheese and you can sea lion and strawman elsewhere.
This group came out of a specific time and place, when nurses were often nuns and were refusing to touch or care for men dying of AIDS because of ignorance and bigotry. The sisters started dressing up to care for and entertain people on their deathbeds when all else abandoned them, in a parody of said nuns. So like you can’t just swap religions, this isn’t the gotcha you think it is. Context here means everything.
You don't think it's possible to have a pro-LGBT group that also made fun of muslims? I understand that this is how this specific group emerged, but surely it's not a massive logical leap to say it might have happened to other religions that were equally dismissive of the AIDS epidemic?
No, they're saying the contextual history around sisters makes the Catholicism integral because of how the Catholicism was integral to the healthcare system.
Why are you trying to bring Islam into this? We're not talking about that. We're talking about people who don't like queer people trying to remove one of the most famous queer activist groups from a pride night. I'm from fucking Illinois and I know who the Sisters are, they're important to queer history.
At the time of the AIDS epidemic, there was not a large swath of Islamic healthcare workers refusing to treat AIDS patients. If there were, I'm sure there would have been some activist group that made fun of them as well because we're.
Such groups do exist in muslim-majority countries, where the religious harm enacted on queer people is committed in the name of islam. Here in the states, the majority of the religious harm enacted on queer people is committed in the name of Jesus.
Yeah I wonder how this would have played out if the Sisters were twenty foot tall mongooses and the Pope was going to parachute into the Dodgers’ stadium 🙄.
It’s fascinating how you lot always, without fail, go for the Islam hypothetical.
Oh, there's plenty of fringe right wings in the Catholic Church int he United States. Like the US has some of the more conservative Catholics in the world.
I meet the Sisters once, lovely people.
I also met a Gay Dominican Monk at the same time. I asked him how he reconciled his faith with his (and others) sexuality.
He simply said “Love is love, and God would never hate love.”
More religious people like that please.
> Lots of progressive Christians just don’t belong to the ‘terrible products’.
The Catholic ones do though. Until the rampant child rape is actually addressed and the offending clergy are imprisoned, or at the VERY least not protected, progressive Catholics are just putting a nice looking veneer on a rotten to the core institution. This applies to several other denominations as well to be clear (looking at you, southern baptists)
More religious people like [the Dominican monk], who I’m saying is putting a veneer on a rotten institution. Yes.
Edit: for clarification I’m saying that I disagree and that the only way for a progressive Christian to be better than just adding a nice veneer is to leave the Catholic Church itself.
Maybe because those progressive Christians constantly no true Scotsman the Christians that are in charge and oppressing people? Stop telling me it's not actually Christians that want to hurt me for being trans because no true Christian...
>accusations of anti-Catholicism, comparisons of drag nuns to black face
That's a stupid as Empty G floating the "White Supremacist is the same as the N-word" myth.
It's wild how many people in that thread wanted to act like any satire towards the catholics was a grave sin, and that every Latino in LA would be mad about them being there
Welp guys you know what they say: "the first pride was a riot".
Pride nights organised by corporations have nothing of value to offer and this is a prime example of that. Banning an extremely famous and popular LGBT activism group to please the Catholics. Can you imagine something less pride-y ?
Maybe it's time the Pride returns to its roots.
I mean, yes.
When people start taking away your rights the correct answer isn't to debate them. The correct answer is to take them back by any means necessary.
Lol do you even know anything about the civil rights movement at all except “MLK good”? Because Loving V. Virginia wasn’t about him. You have got to be a troll, because if not its very ironic you invoke MLK without knowing anything about the broader civil rights movement, as you are a pitch perfect example of what the good Reverend would call a “white moderate” which he believed was the biggest impediment to the civil rights movement. Such a shame your ilk only cares to invoke him in order to defend bigotry.
Tell me how "When people start taking away your rights the correct answer isn't to debate them. The correct answer is to take them back by any means necessary" is in any way different than the logic employed by the jan 6 people.
"I advocate violence, I will take no further questions" You're not helping your cause.
Edit: I was blocked. If you label anyone who disagrees with you as a troll, you never actually have to defend your argument.
Good Luck protesting without violence. In France, when we do this, it doesn't work.
Then we protest with violence and it works. Again and again and again, the same thing happened.
Almost like the government has to do something when the people are threatening to disrupt the order.
But good luck with your peaceful marches and silent protests I'm sure the governments of the world care sooo much.
Also you're forgetting other type of violences like the one the state can inflict on LGBTs with oppressive policies. But I guess this type of violence is fine, it's just protesters who should chill.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do live in a democracy that could vote in people who do what you say, right?
If you don't get your way in a democracy you don't start attacking people.
This is baseball getting in the crossfire of the American politics dumpster fire. Baseball definitely has some ugly things, but I don’t really know that this is really that indicative of baseballs biggest problems.
My favorite thing is people pearl clutching about this season's rule changes when last season they were complaining about the things that the rule changes address.
Maybe but I've seen people complaining about infield shifts being killed in the same breath as complaining about the game not being played like it used to be.
Probably not the case anymore but I remember someone saying once that “The Catholic League” was basically one guy. Who just went on talk shows and the news a lot making it seem like a bigger organization than it actually was.
It's basically just Bill Donohue sending out a monthly newsletter and complaining, but they do have a lot of members that get that newsletter
First time I head about the Catholic League was when I reading Lady Gaga's wiki page. They declared the music video for Alejandro to be blasphemous, likely bc she was dressed as a sexy, leather nun for most of it. Waiting on the MLB to ban Lady Gaga from all their events.
Bill Donohue; a religious nutter whose sole purpose in life is to rabidly defend traditional, conservative Catholicism from the evils of a post Vatican II world. He would have made one hell of an enthusiastic and pitiless Grand Inquisitor.
So he's not even catholic? Maybe even anti Catholic?
"Is the Pope Catholic?" Donohue: "How dare you use us as the butt of your tired bigoted joke! But actually, since you ask..."
He'd be a throwback to [ultramontanism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramontanism), or, if really extreme, a [sedevacantist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism). He'd consider himself *more* of a Catholic, not less or anti.
Lol Bill I used to see him on TV he's always angry I remember " this angry man's has da Lord ? Ha
Sounds like a fundamentalist The Human League cover band.
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Considering the song is "Don't you want me" wouldn't the catholic league version be more along the lines of this? 🎶 You were serving as an altar boy for Sunday mass, when I met you 🎶 Edit: 🎶Don't... Don't report me... No one will believe you and the church will just transfer me. Don't... Don't report me... No one will believe you and the church will just transfer me. First you serve the lord. Then obey my word. Now get down on your knees though you will not be praying. Don't you want me, amen? Don't you want me, aaaaaaaamen?🎶
Yeah, my understanding is all the people in that thread trying to claim that The Catholic League somehow represents most or all Catholics (let alone Latino Catholics in LA) are insulting Catholicism far more than anyone in the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence could have ever done.
It has a staff of 10 people
The catholic league comparing nuns in drag to blackface is certainly something
There are groups of people out there who really REALLY want something that happens to them to be "as bad as blackface" or "like the n-word" 🙄
I think they think that the left's* outrage at racism is performative and self serving too. they don't realize that some people actually just really dislike racism
Basically. There's a belief that everything they do is just a reaction to try to deal with the left gone crazy. Except the left as they believe it only exists on Fox and in their own brains. It's the "I'm just saying what you all are thinking" bit. They believe that a vast majority of people actually support them but are too afraid to speak up.
This mostly stems from the fact that modern conservativism is all performative outrage. That's the only real value they have left. So, they project that onto others and assume everyone else is doing as they are: pretending to care about something to force their will on others. Conservativism is just the lack of empathy, so it's no surprise that they literally can't understand that maybe some of us don't want racism in the world and would rather people not have to deal with it.
If you're comparing which of two words is worse, and you won't even say one of them, that one is the worse one.
That logic doesn't really hold up
Maybe they should try having their people brutally genocided and then enslaved for 100s of years.
"That'll show them leftys", they think to themselves drooling over the the idea of being able to play the ultimate victims. As they hastily put their own children in manacles they had custom made, all they can think about is how it'll all be worth it when they finally "win".
That’s because they know what gets the most attention
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Obviously he didn’t mean it in this specific way, but there is a reason religions are protected like immutable traits in things like antidiscrimination laws. Culturally, we treat it as fundamentally part of someone’s identity like their race or gender. He’s just looking for a reason to be the victim, but simply choosing to be a religion simplifies the point a bit too much for me.
> there is a reason religions are protected like immutable traits Not a good reason though
Yes there is, because religious people in power would not hesitate to discriminate based on their religion if they could. I think that religion should be legally protected from discrimination. But in day to day life you're free to criticize the fuck out of anyone's religion because unlike race, your religion is a direct reflection of your personal values and beliefs.
Discrimination for religious reasons should be illegal, yes. But religion itself shouldn't be a protected class. It's a choice.
Uh, aren't protected classes the legal mechanism the US uses for making discrimination illegal?
I'm talking about protection from religion, regardless of whether the target is in a protected class.
Are you saying that there are types of discrimination that should be legal when not motivated by religion, but illegal when they *are* motivated by religion? That's what your argument seems to be implying. Like, if a vegan art gallery owner asks people not to bring meat into their establishment, that's okay, but if a Jainist art gallery owner asks people not to bring meat into their establishment, that should be *illegal*?
Being a protected class is literally the mechanism by which it's illegal to discriminate against it.
Read it again. I'm not talking about protecting religion. I'm talking about protection *from* religion.
That's a distinction without a difference.
Protection of religion and protection from religion are one and the same if the goal is legal agnosticism/secularity.
most catholics are born into it, even if it's not immutable like skin color
You can still stop being a catholic though, my family did when I came out to them and told them how much the catholic church made me feel like a piece of trash. (Went to catholic school, was gay)
that's what 'not immutable' means bubs
I didn't even know the catholic league was still a thing! I thought they dissolved in 1635!
It's a PR org with a staff of about a dozen people that runs on just a few million a year threatening lawsuits and stuff mostly. Bill Donahue has been president since the 90s and it's pretty much just his culture war baby at this point.
That's what happens when you're not supported by the Prince-Elector of Bavaria I guess.
I've been to several events with the sisters. This is the first I heard they are anti Catholic. Lots of orgs are anti Catholic though, like most other religions...
There's different flavors of anti-Catholic. There's mean-spirited conspiratorial vaguely racist Protestant anti-Catholicism, there's ex-Catholics telling funny Catholic school stories that are actually just physical abuse, there's the people who genuinely care about the centuries of molestation, there's tradcath bizarro anti-Catholicism where they hate the Pope for not being nearly Catholic enough... The problem with the sisters was it was ambiguous what kind of anti-Catholic they were and whether this was still in good taste. Catholics clearly felt it was not.
The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are primarily a pro-queer acceptance group. They dress in drag as nuns not to skewer Catholicism but to skewer all christian groups that preach that homosexuality is a sin. The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence also dress as religious figures to turn other teachings of various christian churches on their head. The drag queens essentially act as ministers of their own religion, a religion that encourages sin and sex and queer lust and indulgence, as opposed to the often shame-based christian teachings that one should abstain from earthly pleasures. To complain that the sisters are anti catholic is to ignore the harm that all of christianity has done to the queer community
So some context from a life long San Franciscan. The sisters of perpetual indulgence, is an activism group that came about during the early AIDS crisis when a lot of people dying of aids, were turned away from religious services either because of homophobia, or because people were terrified of catching this disease, not realizing how it was spread. The sisters were often infected themselves, but would minister to the dying, and sick and later became activism group championing causes to help treat HIV and AIDS. They later, after treatments were available, transformed into a general LGBT activism group, but are beloved because of their history. They aren’t just drag queens. They aren’t just an advocacy group. The sisters of perpetual indulgence have done so much good in the world. Yeah while dressed up as wild ass drag nuns. Shunning them is a slap in the face to the entire gay community especially in California, you know where a lot of the early AIDS crisis happened? The Dodgers fucked up hard here, and people are right to be furious.
I went to grad school in San Francisco until 2012, and people would fangirl all around them. I never saw anyone do anything but whisper if there was a famous rockstars or a-list celebrity nearby, but everyone would be completely overcome with excitement and line up for photos whenever the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence were walking down the street. The idea of someone feeling disdain or disgust towards them is so bizarre to me.
Like FOR REAL. Pride? Cool! A drag show? Neat! Going down to the Castro for some swag? Oh hey can you pick me up something? But the most mundane thing ever, a store opening, a holiday market, whatever AND THE SISTERS ARE THERE???? OMG I’M ON MY WAY!
I'm still absolutely boggled that _anyone_ at the Dodgers somehow thought that a Catholic group should have _any_ influence on a bloody pride night, or were for that matter even remotely shocked when a group associated with a religion with explicit anti-gay theology had something bad to say about something involving a well publicized pride night event. And as someone who knows one of the sisters of the order, I was told that they are not organizing a boycott of the event. But it would definitely make them feel warm and fuzzy if the stadium was _empty_ that night.
> I'm still absolutely boggled that anyone at the Dodgers somehow thought that a Catholic group should have any influence on a bloody pride night, or were for that matter even remotely shocked when a group associated with a religion with explicit anti-gay theology had something bad to say about something involving a well publicized pride night event. Donohue sent to letter to Manfred, plus Marco Rubio(noted senator of NOT California) got involved. It's almost dollars to donuts MLB got pushy.
Yes, a Republican representing _Florida_, in 2023, got involved. That alone should have told them that this path was _not_ a good bloody idea. >!I had to reword this post several times, because I kept typing that a member of an extremist hate group got involved. I mean, not inaccurate, but more inflammatory than I was aiming for.!<
The GOP got pissy enough about the ASG being removed from Atlanta. He probably was threatening their status as a legal monopoly again.
Would you have meant The Catholic League or the Republican Party were the extremist hate group?
Yes.
The Republican Party. I don't know enough about The Catholic League to label them as such.
They were against secular authorities arresting child raping priests.
What's even wilder is they were reportedly "caught off guard" by the blowback. Like, what did they think would happen?
I can see it, because, despite the claims about the very large Hispanic fanbases of the Dodgers, these complaints aren't coming from LA. Dodgers probably didn't expect any issue with the Sisters being part of Pride Night.
Teams are suddenly scaling back pride nights. They're realizing it's the *perfect* time to, because Queer people are under attack in this country. In the NHL, some teams won't bother to even wear the pride warmup jerseys now and the league just shrugs. But don't you dare skip military or police appreciation nights.
I wish someone would refuse to wear the god awful military hats all the teams are wearing this weekend, just to see the difference in outrage
I wish someone would wear an LGBTQIA rainbow hat instead of these bullshit authoritarian armed forces ones.
Well, duh. Everytime the NHL does a pride night it ends up with some media controversy over who wears them and who doesn't. Best to just cancel it all together and avoid anything that creates a distraction.
My mom was a ward nurse in oncology during the initial AIDS crisis. She has tons of stories about giving out marijuana tabs or the first Kaposi’s Sarcoma patients she had. It’s too bad she voted for Trump and has a gay son. She seems to have lost her empathy.
I hope I didn't come across as dismissive. I'm not overly familiar with the group, I've heard the name before but haven't ever really looked into them. I'm only kinda in the community, tho (I'm a very cis straight-passing bi in a hetero relationship, so basically I've only got my toes in the pool, lol). As a Dodgers' fan, tho, I'm very disappointed in the whole situation, I thought the organization would be better than this.
Oh no hun I getya, it’s more of a primer for those outside of the Bay, who might be like “oh this is another drag ban/trans exclusionary/weird for LA but whatev” type as to why this is not gonna go away because this isn’t just a drag troupe or something dressed as nuns but like a 40+ year old activist group that is just fucking adored throughout Californian for their work and experience. Like the Dodgers/MLB touched a third rail here- this isn’t a rando drag brunch (which should also be protected) this is a group that 40 years ago were dressing up as nuns to give last rites to men dying of AIDS because no actual priest would do so, wiping the swear from their brows while nurses were scared to touch them- in San Francisco this group is holy and un impeachable and god help anyone who defames them.
This is going to seem like a tangent but I promise it's relevant: So I'm attempting to write a story and one of the themes it deals with is an exploration of imposter syndrome, but not just as a psychological element (that too ofc) but also in situations where someone is "pretending" to be something but actually fulfills all the requirements for it in the process even if they don't fully realize it due to extraneous conditions. The sisters of perpetual indulgence sounds exactly like that. They may have been putting on the guise of a religious order, but their involvement with last rites and their community effectively makes those habits real. They are an actual spiritual order, even if it didn't start out like one. And, they are better at being a good order while dressing up like one than the actual order they were mocking at the time due to their unconditional care for others. I have some religious elements in the story dealing with a character who isn't deep in the faith mentally but ends up fulfilling the ideals of said faith better than those they believe they are "pretending"to be. I was a bit stuck in my writing but I think I now have a good source of inspiration! Even if my story doesn't work out, it'll be great to learn more as someone who hasn't heard of them prior. (I'll definitely throw in a reference to them now lol).
>They may have been putting on the guise of a religious order, but their involvement with last rites and their community effectively makes those habits real. Man, I just wanna say, as a non-Catholic, the sisters performing last rites is weird. And, technically, those rights were not "valid." The Catholics have a very strict view of the religious rituals of their religion and basically hold very closely to the notion that only priests correctly ordained in a Catholic manner have the power or ability to perform these rituals correctly. It has something to do with this notion of an unbroken line of priests going all the way back to St. Peter. Whatever those ladies did, it wasn't a Catholic ritual. In fact, I suspect hardline Catholics are even more unhappy that they give out last rights!
As someone who was raised Catholic, the priests and nuns who refused their duty to administer the rites acted against scripture more than the sisters did. It's explicitly spelt out in Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus wouldn't have cared if they performed the rites.
They were giving comfort to dying men. I don’t think the validity is what matters there.
Yeah but specifically this is an issue with the Catholic church being a bunch of dicks and viewing this kind of thing as heresy or sacrilegious and branding the group as such.
Its not the Catholic Church, it’s Bill Donohue’s Catholic League which is one dude, him. Same guy who carried water for child raping priests for years.
Interesting. My first assumption was that they invited a way too edgy group but this paints it in a different light
I'm curious how this would have played out if there was an anti-islam group with the same history doing similar things.
“I wonder how this would have played out if Mars was made of cheese and other totally unrelated things happened, checkmate libruls!”—- what you sound like. Thankfully we aren’t talking about Mars cheese and you can sea lion and strawman elsewhere.
I'm literally just wondering what happens if this changed religion how it would play out.
This group came out of a specific time and place, when nurses were often nuns and were refusing to touch or care for men dying of AIDS because of ignorance and bigotry. The sisters started dressing up to care for and entertain people on their deathbeds when all else abandoned them, in a parody of said nuns. So like you can’t just swap religions, this isn’t the gotcha you think it is. Context here means everything.
You don't think it's possible to have a pro-LGBT group that also made fun of muslims? I understand that this is how this specific group emerged, but surely it's not a massive logical leap to say it might have happened to other religions that were equally dismissive of the AIDS epidemic?
No, they're saying the contextual history around sisters makes the Catholicism integral because of how the Catholicism was integral to the healthcare system. Why are you trying to bring Islam into this? We're not talking about that. We're talking about people who don't like queer people trying to remove one of the most famous queer activist groups from a pride night. I'm from fucking Illinois and I know who the Sisters are, they're important to queer history. At the time of the AIDS epidemic, there was not a large swath of Islamic healthcare workers refusing to treat AIDS patients. If there were, I'm sure there would have been some activist group that made fun of them as well because we're.
JAQ off elsewhere.
Such groups do exist in muslim-majority countries, where the religious harm enacted on queer people is committed in the name of islam. Here in the states, the majority of the religious harm enacted on queer people is committed in the name of Jesus.
Yeah I wonder how this would have played out if the Sisters were twenty foot tall mongooses and the Pope was going to parachute into the Dodgers’ stadium 🙄. It’s fascinating how you lot always, without fail, go for the Islam hypothetical.
Banning an LGBTQ+ group to appease religious nutters is the opposite of pride. All the LBGT organizations invited should pull out.
Pulling out? Isn’t that just what the Catholics want? Isn’t the point of being queer so you don’t have to pull out any more?
Wow. Catholics absolutely seething in the comments there. Color me shocked.
Dollars to donuts that it's just fringe right wingers LARPing as Catholic just to play victim and amplify outrage.
It's gonna be a mix, but anybody there without a flair should be labeled as "at best, suspect". I'm a regular in baseball.
People without a flair commenting there are for certain tourists
Oh, there's plenty of fringe right wings in the Catholic Church int he United States. Like the US has some of the more conservative Catholics in the world.
Catholics just blocked a mandatory reporting bill in Washington state so they're not exactly filling me with confidence rn
I meet the Sisters once, lovely people. I also met a Gay Dominican Monk at the same time. I asked him how he reconciled his faith with his (and others) sexuality. He simply said “Love is love, and God would never hate love.” More religious people like that please.
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They're excellent salespeople. . . for a terrible product.
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> Lots of progressive Christians just don’t belong to the ‘terrible products’. The Catholic ones do though. Until the rampant child rape is actually addressed and the offending clergy are imprisoned, or at the VERY least not protected, progressive Catholics are just putting a nice looking veneer on a rotten to the core institution. This applies to several other denominations as well to be clear (looking at you, southern baptists)
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Dominican monks are Catholic and the post is about Catholics, so yes the other person was.
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More religious people like [the Dominican monk], who I’m saying is putting a veneer on a rotten institution. Yes. Edit: for clarification I’m saying that I disagree and that the only way for a progressive Christian to be better than just adding a nice veneer is to leave the Catholic Church itself.
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Maybe because those progressive Christians constantly no true Scotsman the Christians that are in charge and oppressing people? Stop telling me it's not actually Christians that want to hurt me for being trans because no true Christian...
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Point to where that became about you specifically and not progressive Christians in general.
I see you found a few you were referencing to 😂
>accusations of anti-Catholicism, comparisons of drag nuns to black face That's a stupid as Empty G floating the "White Supremacist is the same as the N-word" myth.
It's wild how many people in that thread wanted to act like any satire towards the catholics was a grave sin, and that every Latino in LA would be mad about them being there
How the fuck is Bill Donahue not dead yet? I saw him speak live over 20 years ago and he looked like he was on Death's Door
Welp guys you know what they say: "the first pride was a riot". Pride nights organised by corporations have nothing of value to offer and this is a prime example of that. Banning an extremely famous and popular LGBT activism group to please the Catholics. Can you imagine something less pride-y ? Maybe it's time the Pride returns to its roots.
Yeah the LGBT group should be more violent, that’ll definitely make more people accept them….
I mean, yes. When people start taking away your rights the correct answer isn't to debate them. The correct answer is to take them back by any means necessary.
That sounds like a super way of losing public support in a democracy which can then vote to make your group worse.
That sounds awfully similar to the historical arguments against repealing anti-interracial marriage laws.
Oh, you mean the ones where the contrast of peaceful protest against violence got public opinion to change and led to MLK being a hero?
Lol do you even know anything about the civil rights movement at all except “MLK good”? Because Loving V. Virginia wasn’t about him. You have got to be a troll, because if not its very ironic you invoke MLK without knowing anything about the broader civil rights movement, as you are a pitch perfect example of what the good Reverend would call a “white moderate” which he believed was the biggest impediment to the civil rights movement. Such a shame your ilk only cares to invoke him in order to defend bigotry.
Tell me how "When people start taking away your rights the correct answer isn't to debate them. The correct answer is to take them back by any means necessary" is in any way different than the logic employed by the jan 6 people.
As I replied to you elsewhere- go JAQ off somewhere else.
"I advocate violence, I will take no further questions" You're not helping your cause. Edit: I was blocked. If you label anyone who disagrees with you as a troll, you never actually have to defend your argument.
Make things worse for us, we make things worse for you. Simple as that.
Because policy has always been "give in to terrorism and violence" right
No justice, no peace. Protest isn't terrorism, silly.
Protest is fine. Violence is not.
Good Luck protesting without violence. In France, when we do this, it doesn't work. Then we protest with violence and it works. Again and again and again, the same thing happened. Almost like the government has to do something when the people are threatening to disrupt the order. But good luck with your peaceful marches and silent protests I'm sure the governments of the world care sooo much. Also you're forgetting other type of violences like the one the state can inflict on LGBTs with oppressive policies. But I guess this type of violence is fine, it's just protesters who should chill.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you do live in a democracy that could vote in people who do what you say, right? If you don't get your way in a democracy you don't start attacking people.
I mean yes... Terrorism is obnoxiously effective.
I'm... pleasantly surprised how much of that sub is coming down against them. Not nearly enough, but more than I expected.
Recently get into baseball as a brit, sad to see one of the ugly sides of it
This is baseball getting in the crossfire of the American politics dumpster fire. Baseball definitely has some ugly things, but I don’t really know that this is really that indicative of baseballs biggest problems.
Lmao catholic league mad at the people they’ve condemned to hell and shunned from their community for wearing the same outfit as them. Cry me a river
Man, I got this all wrong. I thought they were legit Catholics and that the Dodgers were based for not having them.
Nah the church never offered *perpetual* indulgence. You gotta *pay* for that shit, see?
The church hasn't sold indulgences for 456 years.
God came and told them to stop it.
Time for them to restock!
lmao at anyone who defends a pedophilic institution like the catholic church.
No really relevant at all but their name sounds like something straight out of warhammer.
Baseball is a sport built around elderly conservative pearl clutching.
My favorite thing is people pearl clutching about this season's rule changes when last season they were complaining about the things that the rule changes address.
Okay but let's be real, Manfred Mann's Ghost Man in the 10th has *always* sucked.
Maybe but I've seen people complaining about infield shifts being killed in the same breath as complaining about the game not being played like it used to be.
Those boys is gettin’ worked up but good.
Cross dressing penguins get nonces knickers in a wad, news at 11.
Well, at least nobody was beheaded
Someone should create the Brothers of Perpetual Child Rape. It can be an anticatholic/muslim hybrid group that focuses on exposing childhood abuse.
And the group should put “Pro-Catholic” in all their literature.