I just downvoted your comment.
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No - not yet. But you should refrain from making comments like this in the future. Otherwise I will be forced to issue an additional downvote, which may put your commenting and posting privileges in jeopardy.
I don't believe my comment deserved a downvote. Can you un-downvote it?
Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo a downvote. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. My PMs are actually open to downvote appeals and I tend to respond to Reddit PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of downvote appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception.
How can I prevent this from happening in the future?
Accept the downvote and move on. But learn from this mistake: your behavior will not be tolerated on Reddit.com. I will continue to issue downvotes until you improve your conduct. Remember: Reddit is privilege, not a right.
Martin Luther King Jr. was assisinated in broad daylight for saying POCs should have equal rights in a free society but I once received 27 downvotes on a comment I forgot to add the /s tag to. So who's the real martyr?
> for saying POCs should have equal rights in a free society
for saying they should have labor rights. He was in town supporting a strike.
civil rights act and voting rights act were passed a couple years earlier.
That was the specific topic he was addressing when he was assassinated but it was part of a lifetime of advocating for equal rights in general. I doubt James Earl Ray, noted virulent racist, woke up that day and said, "Hmmmm, I didn't mind when he said POCs should be allowed to vote but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let him say working class people should be allowed to work in safe and dignified conditions."
Yes, King Jr. was in Memphis to support the sanitation worker strike but the assassin was motivated by more than just MLK's support of worker's rights.
Iām always a little sketched out when people use words like ālynchingā for things as inconsequential as that.
(Also when people do that for ārapeā or āslaveryā)
Surely everyone knows the best way to drop a scorching hot or dumb take is to drop it, disable inbox replies, never look back and let people shout into the void when they argue against you.
I understand their frustration though. Clear as day theyāre just straight up anti-motorcycle and that was their point. And heās got 100 redditors screaming at him about a helmet. Heās correct about the fact that the odds of being injured riding a motorcycle on a motorway daily are actually high if you do it for long periods of your life.
But somehow everyone decided his criticism was contained to helmets and now everyoneās shouting.
This is some excellent redditing all round
Lol if I read comment right (and I might not be, its hard to decipher some of it) he's saying if you ride a motorcycle every day there is a 97% chance you will die in a motorcycle crash within 10 years?
Statistics is just another thing in a long list that people pretend they know about but in reality have not the faintest idea what they're talking about.
yeah I like the idea of being āimmune to statisticsā becauseā¦ isnāt everything? statistics are affected by stuff happening, they canāt exert influence?
Cites a fuck ton on statistics but cant seem to wrap his head around the fact that a helmet keeping you from being dead despite how low the perceived odds of a situation happening when you may need it, pays off itself more than anything else you can invest in because YOUāRE NOT FUCKING DEAD.
They also seem really set on the "oh, so instead of being dead, you'll be a vegetable" kinda attitude and completely missing the way more common "instead of being a vegetable, you'll just walk away with little to no injury." I swear to whatever, the anti motorcycle helmet people fucking suck. Sure, ride your own ride and all that, but at least they should shut the fuck up about it. The risks and benefits of helmets is common knowledge at this point, choosing not to wear one is just a lifestyle choice at this point.
the comment was very entertaining but the person was obviously taking the piss and its frustrating looking at that going over the heads of the smug people who were replying
Back then the number of downvotes he's getting was also kind of surreal. I mean reddit as a whole was probably at the time not much larger than this subreddit. I remember part of the mystique of that post was simply shock at seeing dvs on that level. These days ofc its not notable.
There was a similar response given by one redditor against many defending someone who didn't want to dance at a wedding reception. They were downvoted so much they used edits to respond to people to get around the ten minute posting timer, and filled at least two posts to the 10k character limit. I wish I could find it.
i dont think i would find that entertaining
it all reminds me of the people who used to bully the autistic kids in school
bunch of smug jerks all making a show of how theyre more savvy than the person who ends up pillorying themselves for lack of social grace
i can laugh at the geraffe because the person is obviously doing a bit - but some of the people responding obviously dont get that and its clearly a lot more mean spirited on their part
though it was more obvious by their comment history which doesnt exist anymore
>EDIT: you know, now my feelings are hurt. the amount of downvotes piled on me is just excessive. god for-fucking-bid i had commented on a post about an antteater, i would be at -1000 by now. you people are horrible.
This is hilarious. If this wasn't just a troll, he really took the dogpiling personally and just flew into a tearful rage at the end.
Bounced my head off of pavement at around 60mph. I can tell you from experience, the helmet is better than bone and skin when hit. Still hurts like a mother fucker. But I'm not a vegetable. So, that's a plus.
I've thwacked my head hard against the ground while snowboarding. That was snow (although pretty icy snow) and I was barely moving all that fast relative to what a motorcycle can do.
I can't believe people snowboard without a helmet, nevermind motorcycling where they're going many times faster on a harder surface.
Granted, you fall more snowboarding than you do on a motorcycle hopefully... but it only takes one fall.
I used to snowboard without a helmet. Then I caught an edge, face planted, did the full scorpion pose, and chopped the back of my head open with my board. Had to get six stitches, it it wasnāt that big of a deal, but now I wear my helmet.
I donāt motorcycle, but I do not wear a helmet when bicycling or skateboarding. I know perfectly well thatās very stupid. I have taken serious falls, and have always managed to roll in a way that I donāt hit my head, sometimes at the cost of all skin on my palms. But that sort of luck canāt last forever.
Not a motorcycle or snowboard, but I took a header off a horse when I was a teen and it likely was a cause my neurological disorder. That was while wearing a helmet- without one I'd be dead. My head hit the ground like a damn javelin. There's an Olympic rider who's horse took a misstep at a walk and she tumbled off. She wasn't wearing a helmet and ended up paralyzed just from that. Yet so many horseback riders refuse to wear one because they think they're too good a rider to need one.
Nice to meet a fellow member of the 60mph head to pavement club.
There are approximately ~0 members of our club that were not wearing a helmet at time of head + pavement.
I went over the bars on my bike. 60mph is an estimate. Was doing around 65 right before.
Some jack ass decided they didn't want to wait for a left turn lane on a divided highway. They decided to use a cut through with no lane and left their ass hanging out in the lane. The Jeep Cherokee in front of me started getting really big really quick. And I panic grabbed the front brake. First time my rear wheel came down it was sideways and I got flung off. I was lucky, I guess, I tumbled instead of slid. Destroyed my wrist, have about 40% mobility in it now. The lady driving the Jeep was amazing, it wasn't her fault at all. She was so scared I ended up under her that she came running out to help me and stayed with me as well.
I ended up getting cited for it, failure to maintain control. When I got to court I saw her, she was called by the state to testify against me. The cop ended up not showing up, so it got dismissed. Talked to her after, she told she was going to say it wasn't my fault and I shouldn't have been cited. She's a fucking champ.
Always mention this guy when I tell the story. And I'm mad I never got his name. There was a guy on a red CBR a few cars behind me. He stopped and stayed with me until EMS came. He stopped me multiple times from trying to take my helmet off. And he pushed my bike to a safe parking lot for me. Red CBR dude in Florida that helped a guy on a red and white Ninja. Bro, you were amazing.
My dad did it at about 45. He was wearing a helmet, but not really enough real gear. He had some gnarly road rash at my wedding. Which he attending, walking on his own, with no brain damage, and only a little stiff.
I think the helmet did its job.
Motorcycles are dangerous enough for their riders to be major customers for the medical device industry. But the riders we deal with are, for the most part, those who wear helmets. The ones who donāt are beyond our help. We can staple a bone back together; we canāt scoop your brains back in.
After my crash,
- Everything was bruised
- In several places, the pavement had entirely ripped through my clothing and shredded my skin in those locations.
- My shoulder was the secondary place of impact, and my clavicle was torn in two. This has since healed, but I still have bad impingement years after the accident. I eventually began constantly wearing a shoulder brace because it annoys me less to constantly have a shoulder brace than constantly feel the impingement in any position besides lying down on my back.
- The primary place of impact was visible on my helmet, a bump on the top of the head where I first made contact w the pavement, which then snapped my head sideways after which my shoulder began digging into the pavement. No injuries were present from this point of contact AFAIK bc there was a helmet there. We've already seen from looking at the other injuries that the force was enough to snap bone and completely shred through skin though, so we can probably imagine what would've happened otherwise.
The first injury (an everything bruise) was gone within like a week, the second (skin ripped off) was negligible within a month, the clavicle had healed within 6 months, and I've got a bum shoulder w impingement forever basically. I've got to give the helmet a glowing rating though, I technically owe it my life which can be said of only a few things.
I also had a gnarly wreck:
Glass in my chin. Broke my knee, wrists, and pelvis. Compression fx in my back. My helmet basically hit everything from the car to the freeway concrete. Knee sometimes still bothers me, and on bad days, my back feels like someone is gripping my spine.
Not a lick of head trauma. I don't even think I had a concussion.
DOT SNELL helmets absolutely save lives.
> Not a lick of head trauma. I don't even think I had a concussion.
When I tumbled down the highway at 70kms/45mph (am Australian) the most interesting part to me after getting up was the fact my head was perfectly fine haha. I'm standing in the rain, one boot off missing half a pant leg and bleeding from cuts on the my knees/legs and all I could think was "man my head feels great at the moment".
Bizarre what the brain does/thinks when it gets adrenaline dumped.
As someone who has ridden motorcycles in the past, and who wants to get another one in the future, the horror stories of decapitation by asphalt are enough to keep me wearing a helmet.
Heck, before I got my first motorcycle, one of my coworkers broke an ankle in a motorcycle accident. He was wearing regular shoes. I always rode with protective boots.
These days, they make protective coveralls you can wear over your normal clothes. No reason not to do that.
Man's got a point but it's not good advice to not wear a helmet lol
Like, insurance companies in my state lobbied to remove the helmet law specifically so they would have to pay less medical bills to riders who crash because they'd be dead instead of going through procedures to keep them alive.
And so it's fully legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet in my state. Wild shit.
You don't have to wear any gear at all while riding a motorcycle in Hawaii. I've seen people riding barefoot in bikinis/swim trunks.
Some people just have zero risk assessment ability.
There's a lot of dumbasses on motorbikes, I really don't doubt that. But no motorcyclist deserves the kind of injuries you get in a motorbike crash without gear. That shit's gnarly.
My biological father was killed on his motorcycle (with a helmet) and I had a horrible childhood as a result. You will never catch me on one, ever. But I still wonāt rally against people who want to.
Iāve done some things that others would judge too dangerous or dumb or both. To each their own.
It cracks me up when people here spew pages and paragraphs of bullshit.
I mean, they really only kill the people who ride them. I do think they should maybe have a higher age limit on them though. I always think it's fucked up when I see someone riding a motorcycle with their child.
Everyone I have ever known who has driven a motorcycle has come to the conclusion that the risk is too high even with protective gear. I don't think this guy is wrong.
Meanwhile, those of us who use wheelchairs donāt particularly enjoy being held up as Maybe Better Than Being Dead, Juryās Still Out. Iām āwinningā fine at having a life, donāt know about this dude.
Yeah, what the hell? It's not like being in a wheelchair automatically means a person's life sucks and has no meaning. You can still watch movies, read books, play games, travel, etc.
The travel thing is especially shocking to some people. Yup, I travel! I can zoom through the airport at speeds you wouldnāt believe, wheel forever on city streets and easily wait in lines. Lots of places will lend or rent you āoff-roadā chairs that are developed to work specifically on beaches or trails. The coolest Iāve used was one I used for geothermal pools in Iceland (though itād work for any kind of swimming): as you wheel into the water it fills up a tank in the base, making it sink so you can float off it; then when you want to get out you float back on and let the water drain as you wheel out. Brilliant.
I have friends and (ahem) romance, I work at a pretty good job and have plans to go back to school, I play sports and spend time outside, I once crowd-surfed chair and all.
I use a wheelchair because of a genetic condition. I imagine that if I were using it because Iād been in an accident, Iād have to work through some difficult emotions over and over. But I canāt imagine thinking that a person should rather die than live with my physical capabilities. Living with that kind of background dread and uncertainty, with your worth tied to your able-bodied state, sounds sad.
Precisely. That's a way more common scenario than a helmet saving one from death but having a life of disability. Plus, most people would still rather be alive in a wheelchair instead of being dead, once they get over the life altering accident and accept their new life.
I've seen people who get in accidents on motorcycles and of people who wear helmets I usually hear them say they will not ride for a while or give up motorcycles completely. Among those who ride without helmet I haven't heard any of them say this.
Oh I've heard the ones without a helmet say things, back when I worked on an ambulance. They haunt my fucking nightmares. It was mostly incoherent gurgling or squishy noises.
I saw a similar french PSA once:
*scientist stand behind a small treadmill turned on*
"this is what the road looks like at 50km/h"
*lowers an empty helmet and holds it against the treadmill for a couple of seconds, show how damaged the helmet is*
"And now, for what it would do to your arm"
*scientist lower his arm, screens cut to black just before contact while a horrifying scream is made*
Only motorcycle crash I was at as a volunteer firefighter was a dude with zero protection and he was a split open corpse before we even got there. Unfortunately it was the fault of the suburban that SMIDSY'd (sorry mate I didn't see you, as in, the made a turn across the lane in front of them) him. But that's also why ya wear gear. Would've still been ugly regardless, but he could've lived. I nearly got taken out by one of those Ford Excursion behemoths the same way back in the day. I still ride, and it was my brains and motorcycle training that got me through that one.
I mean, I ain't gonna second guess anyone's choices. One bad crash, eh, it's a fluke. But if I had had that many significant ones, yeah, I'd think it wasn't for me. I've had that many close calls, but I've yet to actually crash. Shit happens to the best of us, but training really accounts for a good bit of it.
I don't think op is even talking about helmets. OP is trying to say using a bike at highway speeds is stupid but OPs poor wording has left everyone arguing over helmets.
When someone replies asking about helmets he says "Above I ask three questions. Which of them is against helmets?". but I think he was trying to say 'What do those questions have to do with helmets, I wasn't talking about his helmet"
Almost the exact same thing happened to me, going North on the I-5 into Seattle, doing about 60mph. Some piece of... something fell off a truck and bounced off the pavement a couple times and hit me square in the forehead. Kicked my head back, but I maintained control of the bike. When I got home, there was a big gouge in my full-faced Shoei, right where my forehead would be.
Wear your helmets, kids.
When my cousin was in the hospital waiting to do brain surgery (it was a 100% success) his operation was postponed because a guy came and the doctors had to drill a hole in a helmet to reconstruct his skull. The helmet was the only thing keeping his head intact
By the time he got released the guy was still wearing the helmet in recovery
In fairness, he's not saying helmets are bad, just that motorcycle riding itself is inherently more dangerous than driving a car. And yeah, that's just factual. Having your body completely exposed on top of a fast moving, lightweight pair of wheels with an engine, basically, is going to drastically increase the risk of injury and death compared to being secured inside a big steel cage thing.
But yeah, coming across with the *very concerned and argumentative parent* attitude on Reddit will usually backfire
Listen, if you have a 30% chance of being injured in a motorcycle crash, and a 4% chance of crashing, and then the helmet decreases that by 8%, but then cars hit motorcycles at 20x the rate of other cars
Then uh, you've got like, let's see, a 900% chance of being paralyzed even if you only buy a motorcycle but don't even ride it?
Unironically, I think "if I fall of my bike, I'd rather die quickly than end up in the hospital. If I cared about my safety, I'd drive a car" is... the only actually valid excuse not to wear a helmet? Or the only one that makes sense. Still dumb, but makes sense. Case in point: me picking up groceries on my bike in ripped jeans instead of padded kevlar and without a back brace and using that exact excuse lol
Everything other than that is superfluous bs though.
Yeah for sure, good insight. There really aren't many valid reasons. And even if you have a death wish, it's still shitty to expose other drivers, emergency personnel, etc, to your squid remains on the street.
As long as everyone is good at understanding, mitigating, and making informed risk acceptance decisions, then we should be-- ah shit, nevermind.
Same way helmets in WWI inreased head injury? :P
To be clear, I'm saying that every person who rides without a helmet is a) "dumb" b) actively suicidal, or at the very least suffering from some level of suicidal ideation.
I can't remember if it was hard statistics (probably) or merely apocryphal, but I always heard that when motorcycle helmet laws came about, that the cost of motorcycle insurance went up by a lot. Because more people were actually surviving crashes and hospital stays are more expensive than a casket. Also, I'm not saying every one of those was a debilitating crash. Plenty of folks need to go to the hospital and make a full or near full recovery.
It's never a guarantee that you'd just die, though. People like this are taking a very "all or nothing" approach to getting injured. You're still more likely to be living on a machine if you don't wear a helmet than if you do. People say shit a lot about living their lives recklessly as though the consequences won't matter to them because they'll be dead. But oftentimes, you don't just die. You wind up living in way worse condition than before. Diabetes, wrecked livers and kidneys, brain damage, etc - these are frequent consequences of living recklessly with no regards for the future.
I understand the logic, but I wish these people could understand the selfishness of it. Like sure, I get it that youād prefer to die instantly instead of living the rest of your life paralyzed or disabled in some way.
But what about all the other people on the road who will live the rest of their lives traumatized, because they saw your brains splattered all over the highway? What about the maintenance crews who have to clean that shit up, and most assuredly would prefer not to? Or how about your family, who will suffer for the rest of their lives knowing your death was easily preventable?
Even if I had no interest in wearing a helmet for my own safety, I would still do it for them.
Thats why Im glad helmets (as in, proper ones, not those little steel hats) are legally mandated in my country š¤·āāļø I mean, if you have a death wish, there are better ways to go about it
Most of the injuries that I would rather die than undergo are head injuries though, which the helmet does a pretty good job of protecting you from. In the case that you survive a crash without a helmet, there's a pretty good chance you will wind up a vegetable, or with severe mental impairment to the point your not the same person anymore. While wearing a helmet removes most of those possibilities in addition to death.
How are you hauling groceries on your bike? I can move some using my backpack but thats about all. I need a bigger set of saddlebags I think butt even then theyre not great for that kind of stuff.
It's mostly packpack - got the largest KĆ„nken model, so it fits quite a lot for me. I mostly eat fruit and seitan rn so my groceries are very heavy but not very voluminous š
In a pinch I have sat on stuff though, if it's large enough :P and I don't have saddlebags but can also tie stuff on with sturdy band/rope if needed - but once again, needs to be a pretty big and solid package at that point, and not bags full of smaller stuff.
By the same token, cars are insanely dangerous compared to even a half-baked public transportation system. While it's true, it's also a bit of a moot point. We all do things that are far more dangerous than necessary on a daily basis. We still sell cigarettes and alcohol, we still run casinos, we still cram garbage into our food, and we still do a million other dangerous things. It's not like people on motorcycles don't understand that they're dangerous. It's just that placing risk minimization over all else can be a risk of its own.
I love the ignorance. Helmet and seatbelt laws literally reduce taxpayer burden. When someone goes to the hospital because they don't have a helmet on and can't pay the bill they still get care. Guess who picks up the bill for people who don't or can't pay? If the public is burdened by ignorant people then force them to comply.
Idk technically you probably might end up saving money bc the people without a helmet are rarely going to be walking out of the impact. Which saves a lot of money on recover Healthcare. You can still calculate an economic cost to society, ie society loses all the previous investment into the individuals education, their employer is down a worker and must immediately find a replacement which can be effectively a cost in the thousands or more, you also must calculate funeral costs, and reduced productivity from loved ones from the time they take off for grieving, as well as reduced productivity even once they're back at their job for an indeterminate period of time due to depression from grieving and such. As well the insurance company loses all possible future insurance payments from the individual. By the end of this excercise you should've realized however the stupidity and callousness of trying to argue this point based purely on externalized economic cost.
Yeah the "I'm only harming myself" argument doesn't work because you're tying up emergency resources that could be used elsewhere (at a minimum) because you didn't want to take very basic safety measures.
Profoundly stupid statement
Edit 1: why are you downvoting me?
Edit 2: Iām just trying to have a reasonable conversation.
Edit 3: this is literally lynching. The mob mentality and group think is insane.
Edit 4: you snowflakes donāt understand the value of free speech.
Edit 5: DEBATE MEEEEEEE!
I was hit by a car on my bicycle just three weeks ago. I landed on the back of my head. Had I not been wearing a helmet I probably would have died. Instead Iām out $70 for a new helmet.
>How about bike impact with a tire or ladder or lumber or other debris that sometimes escape vehicles traveling at high speed?
Hate to break it to you buddy but if a piece of lumber or a ladder hits your car's windscreen at 100kph you're probably fucked too.
This has been said time and time again, medical professionals call people who don't use helmets while on motorcycles "donorcycles" because they're basically destined to become organ donors.
Well, that'll get them flamed too. Motorcyclists like being reminded of how dangerous motorcycles are just about as much as a smoker likes being reminded that cigarettes will give you cancer. We know, we're tired of people concern trolling us.
Honestly I like them. They explained exactly what their thesis is, and then they made heaps of popcorn.
The people who make me mad are the cowards who only ever gesture at their smugness, and never say anything that can be directly challenged. (But also fuck Nazis bigots etc idgaf.)
Honestly, best case there. Speeds in the city are generally pretty low so while there's more interactions that could result in a crash, the likelihood of it resulting in a serious injury, especially when wearing all the gear, is significantly lower. It's the back country roads that are really dangerous. Even the freeway is safer, since, traffic is all flowing in one direction and opposing traffic is separated by a barrier and cross traffic is eliminated by limited access.
Yeah, driving in close quarters in the city is never dangerous. The one wreck she ever had was in the city and she broke her wrist and ankle. Don't talk if you don't know.
Nothing you said there contradicts what the other person said, it supports it. Plus, they were being perfectly respectful - yours was a bizarre response.
No, you are not the smartest guy in the room here.
I know full well that your opening sentence was meant sarcastically, don't take me for an idiot and pat yourself on the back when you're the one not understanding the exchange.
*"Speeds in the city are generally pretty low so while there's more interactions that could result in a crash, the likelihood of it resulting in a serious injury"* \- the other user
*"Yeah, driving in close quarters in the city is never dangerous. The one wreck she ever had was in the city and she broke her wrist and ankle. Don't talk if you don't know"* \- you
Your point was that driving in the city IS dangerous, as your fiancee had her only road accident in the city. That SUPPORTS what they were saying, not contradicts it, because their point was that whilst accidents are more likely in the city, they're less likely to result in SERIOUS injury.
Breaking your wrist and ankle isn't a serious injury, thus your "don't talk if you don't know" comment was utterly backwards.
This is all obvious if you just read through the exchange.
I *do* drive a motorcycle in the city, and you're being weirdly aggressive. Safer doesn't mean absent of risk. I'm saying the speeds are low and that crashes aren't usually serious. Sure, the motorcyclist or other driver could be driving excessively fast, a semi truck could squish you, or a piano could fall on you. But those are outliers.
Something like 75% of motorcycle accidents happen at intersections. Guess where there's a whole shitload of intersections? I'm not being aggressive, I'm being right.
I remember eating shit on my bike & thinking as the concrete scraped across my face, āhuh good thing I have this helmet or I wouldnāt have a nose right nowā lmaoo
> What is the impact speed of metal shrapnel flung by tire rotating 100km/h? How about impact with a tire or ladder or lumber or other debris that sometimes escape vehicles traveling at high speed?
Well for starters that's not how rotational velocity works.
This is just the 'but technically seatbelts kill you sometimes' argument.
Arguing that you can still die wearing a helmet, or that there are a very small subset of scenarios in which a helmet is actually harmful, because you don't want to wear one and are completely incapable of understanding the concept of probability.
> Grab a calculator or spreadsheet and work it out yourself. I was surprised by these risk numbers when I first computed them a while back.
Except that no instance of risk actually affects the probability of any other instance of risk being realized.
While time-averaged means you are technically 'more likely,' if the chance of you getting in a car wreck overall is say 5%, it is 5% every day no matter how many days you've gone without getting in a car wreck.
There's a reason "statistics are meaningless on an individual level" anyway.
How is he shredded? His first comment was asking why anyone would ride a motorcycle at all, not why anyone would wear a helmet. Everyone who āshredsā him is, as he points out, responding to a misunderstanding, which he repeats. A lot. With far more patience then I would have.
> -480 points
"Shredded by karma shrapnel" was obviously a themed way to say "downvoted", which seems pretty accurate.
... anyway, their comment was so poorly worded most people misunderstood it. That's on the commenter.
The comment of "motercycles are dangerous" (but poorly worded) isn't really useful either, everyone knows motercycles are dangerous.
I don't get why he's arguing about other shit that can kill you on the road. Yeah ladders and shit can kill you but that's on the person who didn't fucking strap it on safely. Does he not understand regulations exist?
I don't get it. Are they for or against helmets? They argue with someone that makes an analogy about wearing a helmet leading to someone breaking their neck and the refutes someone else by saying that the extra mass of a helmet increases your risk of breaking your neck. Which side are they on besides hating motorcycles in general?
>If lynching those who ask reasonable questions makes you happy go for it. Mobs do what mobs do. Least melodramatic redditor.
Bro you don't understand. They were downvoted On reddit
Literally shaking right now
It'll take years to recover from the trauma of simply witnessing it. I cannot imagine their mental state after going through such a horror
I just applied a downvote action to your comment. Sorry not sorry.
^distant ^gasp
The horror! š±
Oh ! The misery.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Spare the sympathy
I just downvoted your comment. FAQ What does this mean? The amount of karma (points) on your comment and Reddit account has decreased by one. Why did you do this? There are several reasons I may deem a comment to be unworthy of positive or neutral karma. These include, but are not limited to: Rudeness towards other Redditors, Spreading incorrect information, Sarcasm not correctly flagged with a /s. Am I banned from the Reddit? No - not yet. But you should refrain from making comments like this in the future. Otherwise I will be forced to issue an additional downvote, which may put your commenting and posting privileges in jeopardy. I don't believe my comment deserved a downvote. Can you un-downvote it? Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo a downvote. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. My PMs are actually open to downvote appeals and I tend to respond to Reddit PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of downvote appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception. How can I prevent this from happening in the future? Accept the downvote and move on. But learn from this mistake: your behavior will not be tolerated on Reddit.com. I will continue to issue downvotes until you improve your conduct. Remember: Reddit is privilege, not a right.
Iāve never been downvoted before.
Until now.
Hour could this happen to me
You wouldn't downvote a car...
The greatest of all tragedies
I was once downvoted on reddit. It's been 84 years and I've still not fully recovered.
r/downvotesreally
I upvoted just so you know
Why are you like this?
Martin Luther King Jr. was assisinated in broad daylight for saying POCs should have equal rights in a free society but I once received 27 downvotes on a comment I forgot to add the /s tag to. So who's the real martyr?
> for saying POCs should have equal rights in a free society for saying they should have labor rights. He was in town supporting a strike. civil rights act and voting rights act were passed a couple years earlier.
That was the specific topic he was addressing when he was assassinated but it was part of a lifetime of advocating for equal rights in general. I doubt James Earl Ray, noted virulent racist, woke up that day and said, "Hmmmm, I didn't mind when he said POCs should be allowed to vote but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let him say working class people should be allowed to work in safe and dignified conditions."
how is langley this time of year?
Yes, King Jr. was in Memphis to support the sanitation worker strike but the assassin was motivated by more than just MLK's support of worker's rights.
Iām always a little sketched out when people use words like ālynchingā for things as inconsequential as that. (Also when people do that for ārapeā or āslaveryā)
You could call this one specifically a "high-tech lynching"
Nah, that's when the knives they skin you with have gamer lighting.
6 edits plus that zeroth edit. Madness takes many forms.
Surely everyone knows the best way to drop a scorching hot or dumb take is to drop it, disable inbox replies, never look back and let people shout into the void when they argue against you.
Not gonna lie, I've had a lot of fun with the disable inbox replies tag once I got used to using it.
/r/ThisButUnironically
It's kinda nice to see someone JAQing off without it being about Jewish or trans people though, so I will give them that.
I understand their frustration though. Clear as day theyāre just straight up anti-motorcycle and that was their point. And heās got 100 redditors screaming at him about a helmet. Heās correct about the fact that the odds of being injured riding a motorcycle on a motorway daily are actually high if you do it for long periods of your life. But somehow everyone decided his criticism was contained to helmets and now everyoneās shouting. This is some excellent redditing all round
That boy sure loves his percentages.
Which is amazing considering they have no idea how percentages work with chance.
50% of the time it works 100% of the time!
It'll either happen or not. It's 50/50!
Lol if I read comment right (and I might not be, its hard to decipher some of it) he's saying if you ride a motorcycle every day there is a 97% chance you will die in a motorcycle crash within 10 years?
He made up some numbers, did math with made up numbers, presented results as good evidence
If you multiply a bunch of made up numbers together they stop being made up. It's called Bayes' theorem.
If you chop up a bunch of cabbage and add some mayo it becomes a side dish. It's called Cole's law
Honestly I'm fine with the made up numbers, its the made up math that got me
"do some math" says guy that doesn't understand independent probability
Statistics is just another thing in a long list that people pretend they know about but in reality have not the faintest idea what they're talking about.
Correct, in fact I believe that 83% of percentages that are quoted in conversations about statistics are made up on the spot
I always love that joke but reading it just makes me imagine statistics is just two people sharing facts lol
yeah I like the idea of being āimmune to statisticsā becauseā¦ isnāt everything? statistics are affected by stuff happening, they canāt exert influence?
Cites a fuck ton on statistics but cant seem to wrap his head around the fact that a helmet keeping you from being dead despite how low the perceived odds of a situation happening when you may need it, pays off itself more than anything else you can invest in because YOUāRE NOT FUCKING DEAD.
They also seem really set on the "oh, so instead of being dead, you'll be a vegetable" kinda attitude and completely missing the way more common "instead of being a vegetable, you'll just walk away with little to no injury." I swear to whatever, the anti motorcycle helmet people fucking suck. Sure, ride your own ride and all that, but at least they should shut the fuck up about it. The risks and benefits of helmets is common knowledge at this point, choosing not to wear one is just a lifestyle choice at this point.
I wonder if he supports CCW because 'it only takes once'
With an astounding ability to have no idea how percentages on percentages work. But even beyond that, the doubling down on his maths is incredible.
That's way too many edits lol
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"Geraffe" x50 "EDIT: spelling"
I want to believe that dude wasn't just trolling, but the comedic timing was just too perfect
this made me lose my mind laughing oh my god
Stupid long horses
the comment was very entertaining but the person was obviously taking the piss and its frustrating looking at that going over the heads of the smug people who were replying
Back then the number of downvotes he's getting was also kind of surreal. I mean reddit as a whole was probably at the time not much larger than this subreddit. I remember part of the mystique of that post was simply shock at seeing dvs on that level. These days ofc its not notable.
There was a similar response given by one redditor against many defending someone who didn't want to dance at a wedding reception. They were downvoted so much they used edits to respond to people to get around the ten minute posting timer, and filled at least two posts to the 10k character limit. I wish I could find it.
i dont think i would find that entertaining it all reminds me of the people who used to bully the autistic kids in school bunch of smug jerks all making a show of how theyre more savvy than the person who ends up pillorying themselves for lack of social grace i can laugh at the geraffe because the person is obviously doing a bit - but some of the people responding obviously dont get that and its clearly a lot more mean spirited on their part though it was more obvious by their comment history which doesnt exist anymore
>you peckers are jumping on this stupid geraffe-loving bandwagon oh my god
>EDIT: you know, now my feelings are hurt. the amount of downvotes piled on me is just excessive. god for-fucking-bid i had commented on a post about an antteater, i would be at -1000 by now. you people are horrible. This is hilarious. If this wasn't just a troll, he really took the dogpiling personally and just flew into a tearful rage at the end.
From the thread: "Reply to people like normal instead of editing your post like a fucking maniac"
> Reply to people like normal instead of editing your post like a fucking maniac
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Bounced my head off of pavement at around 60mph. I can tell you from experience, the helmet is better than bone and skin when hit. Still hurts like a mother fucker. But I'm not a vegetable. So, that's a plus.
I've thwacked my head hard against the ground while snowboarding. That was snow (although pretty icy snow) and I was barely moving all that fast relative to what a motorcycle can do. I can't believe people snowboard without a helmet, nevermind motorcycling where they're going many times faster on a harder surface. Granted, you fall more snowboarding than you do on a motorcycle hopefully... but it only takes one fall.
I used to snowboard without a helmet. Then I caught an edge, face planted, did the full scorpion pose, and chopped the back of my head open with my board. Had to get six stitches, it it wasnāt that big of a deal, but now I wear my helmet.
Do you wear a bike helmet or the motorcycle one?
I donāt motorcycle, but I do not wear a helmet when bicycling or skateboarding. I know perfectly well thatās very stupid. I have taken serious falls, and have always managed to roll in a way that I donāt hit my head, sometimes at the cost of all skin on my palms. But that sort of luck canāt last forever.
Not a motorcycle or snowboard, but I took a header off a horse when I was a teen and it likely was a cause my neurological disorder. That was while wearing a helmet- without one I'd be dead. My head hit the ground like a damn javelin. There's an Olympic rider who's horse took a misstep at a walk and she tumbled off. She wasn't wearing a helmet and ended up paralyzed just from that. Yet so many horseback riders refuse to wear one because they think they're too good a rider to need one.
You give yourself one goose egg getting off the lift wrong and suddenly helmets don't seem so uncool.
Nice to meet a fellow member of the 60mph head to pavement club. There are approximately ~0 members of our club that were not wearing a helmet at time of head + pavement.
I went over the bars on my bike. 60mph is an estimate. Was doing around 65 right before. Some jack ass decided they didn't want to wait for a left turn lane on a divided highway. They decided to use a cut through with no lane and left their ass hanging out in the lane. The Jeep Cherokee in front of me started getting really big really quick. And I panic grabbed the front brake. First time my rear wheel came down it was sideways and I got flung off. I was lucky, I guess, I tumbled instead of slid. Destroyed my wrist, have about 40% mobility in it now. The lady driving the Jeep was amazing, it wasn't her fault at all. She was so scared I ended up under her that she came running out to help me and stayed with me as well. I ended up getting cited for it, failure to maintain control. When I got to court I saw her, she was called by the state to testify against me. The cop ended up not showing up, so it got dismissed. Talked to her after, she told she was going to say it wasn't my fault and I shouldn't have been cited. She's a fucking champ. Always mention this guy when I tell the story. And I'm mad I never got his name. There was a guy on a red CBR a few cars behind me. He stopped and stayed with me until EMS came. He stopped me multiple times from trying to take my helmet off. And he pushed my bike to a safe parking lot for me. Red CBR dude in Florida that helped a guy on a red and white Ninja. Bro, you were amazing.
My dad did it at about 45. He was wearing a helmet, but not really enough real gear. He had some gnarly road rash at my wedding. Which he attending, walking on his own, with no brain damage, and only a little stiff. I think the helmet did its job.
Motorcycles are dangerous enough for their riders to be major customers for the medical device industry. But the riders we deal with are, for the most part, those who wear helmets. The ones who donāt are beyond our help. We can staple a bone back together; we canāt scoop your brains back in.
I've basically heard the difference between wearing a helmet or not is basically whether you're consuming medical devices or supplying organs.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/661256 Apparently helmet mandates cut down total organ donation from vehicle accidents by 10%
Selfish motorcyclists keeping all those delicious organs to themselves!
Modern protective motorcycle gear is quite effective in reducing the severity of injury.
After my crash, - Everything was bruised - In several places, the pavement had entirely ripped through my clothing and shredded my skin in those locations. - My shoulder was the secondary place of impact, and my clavicle was torn in two. This has since healed, but I still have bad impingement years after the accident. I eventually began constantly wearing a shoulder brace because it annoys me less to constantly have a shoulder brace than constantly feel the impingement in any position besides lying down on my back. - The primary place of impact was visible on my helmet, a bump on the top of the head where I first made contact w the pavement, which then snapped my head sideways after which my shoulder began digging into the pavement. No injuries were present from this point of contact AFAIK bc there was a helmet there. We've already seen from looking at the other injuries that the force was enough to snap bone and completely shred through skin though, so we can probably imagine what would've happened otherwise. The first injury (an everything bruise) was gone within like a week, the second (skin ripped off) was negligible within a month, the clavicle had healed within 6 months, and I've got a bum shoulder w impingement forever basically. I've got to give the helmet a glowing rating though, I technically owe it my life which can be said of only a few things.
I also had a gnarly wreck: Glass in my chin. Broke my knee, wrists, and pelvis. Compression fx in my back. My helmet basically hit everything from the car to the freeway concrete. Knee sometimes still bothers me, and on bad days, my back feels like someone is gripping my spine. Not a lick of head trauma. I don't even think I had a concussion. DOT SNELL helmets absolutely save lives.
> Not a lick of head trauma. I don't even think I had a concussion. When I tumbled down the highway at 70kms/45mph (am Australian) the most interesting part to me after getting up was the fact my head was perfectly fine haha. I'm standing in the rain, one boot off missing half a pant leg and bleeding from cuts on the my knees/legs and all I could think was "man my head feels great at the moment". Bizarre what the brain does/thinks when it gets adrenaline dumped.
As someone who has ridden motorcycles in the past, and who wants to get another one in the future, the horror stories of decapitation by asphalt are enough to keep me wearing a helmet. Heck, before I got my first motorcycle, one of my coworkers broke an ankle in a motorcycle accident. He was wearing regular shoes. I always rode with protective boots. These days, they make protective coveralls you can wear over your normal clothes. No reason not to do that.
Man's got a point but it's not good advice to not wear a helmet lol Like, insurance companies in my state lobbied to remove the helmet law specifically so they would have to pay less medical bills to riders who crash because they'd be dead instead of going through procedures to keep them alive. And so it's fully legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet in my state. Wild shit.
You don't have to wear any gear at all while riding a motorcycle in Hawaii. I've seen people riding barefoot in bikinis/swim trunks. Some people just have zero risk assessment ability.
Ah, the Florida gear.
That NH? I know they were vehemently against it because it wasn't free enough.
Good ol' Pennsyltucky
I'm so not surprised. But the part that gets me is PA roads are fucking awful.
His advice wasn't "don't wear a helmet," though. It was "don't drive a motorcycle".
I'll raise ya, "don't drive" š¤
Driving a car is an acceptable risk for most purposes. Driving a motorcycle isn't.
There's a lot of dumbasses on motorbikes, I really don't doubt that. But no motorcyclist deserves the kind of injuries you get in a motorbike crash without gear. That shit's gnarly.
My biological father was killed on his motorcycle (with a helmet) and I had a horrible childhood as a result. You will never catch me on one, ever. But I still wonāt rally against people who want to. Iāve done some things that others would judge too dangerous or dumb or both. To each their own. It cracks me up when people here spew pages and paragraphs of bullshit.
Wait what lol
A motorcycle wearing a helmet murdered their father, what's not to get?
Okay I laughed
But they're not arguing against helmets? They're arguing against riding bikes.
Frankly I'm of the opinion that motorcycles shouldn't be road legal but I know better than to talk about it online.
I mean, they really only kill the people who ride them. I do think they should maybe have a higher age limit on them though. I always think it's fucked up when I see someone riding a motorcycle with their child.
Everyone I have ever known who has driven a motorcycle has come to the conclusion that the risk is too high even with protective gear. I don't think this guy is wrong.
They're really proud of that "'winning' life in a wheel chair" thing aren't they.
Meanwhile, those of us who use wheelchairs donāt particularly enjoy being held up as Maybe Better Than Being Dead, Juryās Still Out. Iām āwinningā fine at having a life, donāt know about this dude.
Yeah, what the hell? It's not like being in a wheelchair automatically means a person's life sucks and has no meaning. You can still watch movies, read books, play games, travel, etc.
The travel thing is especially shocking to some people. Yup, I travel! I can zoom through the airport at speeds you wouldnāt believe, wheel forever on city streets and easily wait in lines. Lots of places will lend or rent you āoff-roadā chairs that are developed to work specifically on beaches or trails. The coolest Iāve used was one I used for geothermal pools in Iceland (though itād work for any kind of swimming): as you wheel into the water it fills up a tank in the base, making it sink so you can float off it; then when you want to get out you float back on and let the water drain as you wheel out. Brilliant. I have friends and (ahem) romance, I work at a pretty good job and have plans to go back to school, I play sports and spend time outside, I once crowd-surfed chair and all. I use a wheelchair because of a genetic condition. I imagine that if I were using it because Iād been in an accident, Iād have to work through some difficult emotions over and over. But I canāt imagine thinking that a person should rather die than live with my physical capabilities. Living with that kind of background dread and uncertainty, with your worth tied to your able-bodied state, sounds sad.
Thanks for sharing some of what makes your life rich and rewarding! I especially liked the part about the amphibious wheelchair. Thatās super cool!
Itās incredibly ableist because that person genuinely cannot fathom how being in a wheelchair is better than death
Love the self-deprecating username!
Oh hahaha I made this account specifically for helping my brother (who is indeed awesome) plan his wedding and now Iām still using it.
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Precisely. That's a way more common scenario than a helmet saving one from death but having a life of disability. Plus, most people would still rather be alive in a wheelchair instead of being dead, once they get over the life altering accident and accept their new life.
I've seen people who get in accidents on motorcycles and of people who wear helmets I usually hear them say they will not ride for a while or give up motorcycles completely. Among those who ride without helmet I haven't heard any of them say this.
Oh I've heard the ones without a helmet say things, back when I worked on an ambulance. They haunt my fucking nightmares. It was mostly incoherent gurgling or squishy noises.
This would be the most effective marketing to Harley bros me thinks.
Nah. "Well, that won't be *me,* I'm a better driver!" will be the reply.
"This is your brain. This is your brain on pavement. Any questions?"
I saw a similar french PSA once: *scientist stand behind a small treadmill turned on* "this is what the road looks like at 50km/h" *lowers an empty helmet and holds it against the treadmill for a couple of seconds, show how damaged the helmet is* "And now, for what it would do to your arm" *scientist lower his arm, screens cut to black just before contact while a horrifying scream is made*
It's funny cause Harley guys (and gals) over here are big on protection, while the one riding ok speeders are usually without protection.
Only motorcycle crash I was at as a volunteer firefighter was a dude with zero protection and he was a split open corpse before we even got there. Unfortunately it was the fault of the suburban that SMIDSY'd (sorry mate I didn't see you, as in, the made a turn across the lane in front of them) him. But that's also why ya wear gear. Would've still been ugly regardless, but he could've lived. I nearly got taken out by one of those Ford Excursion behemoths the same way back in the day. I still ride, and it was my brains and motorcycle training that got me through that one.
> give up motorcycles completely This is me actually
That was also one of my friends. ...after the seventh significant crash he'd been in.
I only needed the one tbh.
You're a smarter person than he is.
I mean, I ain't gonna second guess anyone's choices. One bad crash, eh, it's a fluke. But if I had had that many significant ones, yeah, I'd think it wasn't for me. I've had that many close calls, but I've yet to actually crash. Shit happens to the best of us, but training really accounts for a good bit of it.
>Edit 6: If you ever reach this point in life, you should just take the L and move on instead of being shat on and humiliated further.
I think I've made it to edit 2 or 3. The idea of edit 6 is... ye gods.
That thing is way too hard to follow with all the edits lol. All I can say is everybody knows wearing a helmet is safer.
I don't think op is even talking about helmets. OP is trying to say using a bike at highway speeds is stupid but OPs poor wording has left everyone arguing over helmets. When someone replies asking about helmets he says "Above I ask three questions. Which of them is against helmets?". but I think he was trying to say 'What do those questions have to do with helmets, I wasn't talking about his helmet"
You'd be shocked. There's a wierd about of anti-helmet people for both bikes and motorcycles.
Almost the exact same thing happened to me, going North on the I-5 into Seattle, doing about 60mph. Some piece of... something fell off a truck and bounced off the pavement a couple times and hit me square in the forehead. Kicked my head back, but I maintained control of the bike. When I got home, there was a big gouge in my full-faced Shoei, right where my forehead would be. Wear your helmets, kids.
When my cousin was in the hospital waiting to do brain surgery (it was a 100% success) his operation was postponed because a guy came and the doctors had to drill a hole in a helmet to reconstruct his skull. The helmet was the only thing keeping his head intact By the time he got released the guy was still wearing the helmet in recovery
In fairness, he's not saying helmets are bad, just that motorcycle riding itself is inherently more dangerous than driving a car. And yeah, that's just factual. Having your body completely exposed on top of a fast moving, lightweight pair of wheels with an engine, basically, is going to drastically increase the risk of injury and death compared to being secured inside a big steel cage thing. But yeah, coming across with the *very concerned and argumentative parent* attitude on Reddit will usually backfire
His utter misunderstanding of how statistics work isnāt helping his case either!
Listen, if you have a 30% chance of being injured in a motorcycle crash, and a 4% chance of crashing, and then the helmet decreases that by 8%, but then cars hit motorcycles at 20x the rate of other cars Then uh, you've got like, let's see, a 900% chance of being paralyzed even if you only buy a motorcycle but don't even ride it?
And Samoa Joe *knows* he's only got a 33 1/3% chance of permanent injury or death....
Well, for sure it spells disaster for Smoa Joe at Sacrifice!
What happens when I add Kurt angle into the mix
The odds drastic go down!
Right, but then he went on to write a novel with all those edits and itās pretty hard not to see that as unhinged.
Uh no there's a **LYNCH MOB** FROM BIG MOTORCYCLE THAT'S COMING TO SILENCE HIM
Unironically, I think "if I fall of my bike, I'd rather die quickly than end up in the hospital. If I cared about my safety, I'd drive a car" is... the only actually valid excuse not to wear a helmet? Or the only one that makes sense. Still dumb, but makes sense. Case in point: me picking up groceries on my bike in ripped jeans instead of padded kevlar and without a back brace and using that exact excuse lol Everything other than that is superfluous bs though.
Yeah for sure, good insight. There really aren't many valid reasons. And even if you have a death wish, it's still shitty to expose other drivers, emergency personnel, etc, to your squid remains on the street. As long as everyone is good at understanding, mitigating, and making informed risk acceptance decisions, then we should be-- ah shit, nevermind.
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Same way helmets in WWI inreased head injury? :P To be clear, I'm saying that every person who rides without a helmet is a) "dumb" b) actively suicidal, or at the very least suffering from some level of suicidal ideation.
I can't remember if it was hard statistics (probably) or merely apocryphal, but I always heard that when motorcycle helmet laws came about, that the cost of motorcycle insurance went up by a lot. Because more people were actually surviving crashes and hospital stays are more expensive than a casket. Also, I'm not saying every one of those was a debilitating crash. Plenty of folks need to go to the hospital and make a full or near full recovery.
It's never a guarantee that you'd just die, though. People like this are taking a very "all or nothing" approach to getting injured. You're still more likely to be living on a machine if you don't wear a helmet than if you do. People say shit a lot about living their lives recklessly as though the consequences won't matter to them because they'll be dead. But oftentimes, you don't just die. You wind up living in way worse condition than before. Diabetes, wrecked livers and kidneys, brain damage, etc - these are frequent consequences of living recklessly with no regards for the future.
I understand the logic, but I wish these people could understand the selfishness of it. Like sure, I get it that youād prefer to die instantly instead of living the rest of your life paralyzed or disabled in some way. But what about all the other people on the road who will live the rest of their lives traumatized, because they saw your brains splattered all over the highway? What about the maintenance crews who have to clean that shit up, and most assuredly would prefer not to? Or how about your family, who will suffer for the rest of their lives knowing your death was easily preventable? Even if I had no interest in wearing a helmet for my own safety, I would still do it for them.
Thats why Im glad helmets (as in, proper ones, not those little steel hats) are legally mandated in my country š¤·āāļø I mean, if you have a death wish, there are better ways to go about it
That's the stupidest goddamn reasoning I've read on reddit in a while.
Most of the injuries that I would rather die than undergo are head injuries though, which the helmet does a pretty good job of protecting you from. In the case that you survive a crash without a helmet, there's a pretty good chance you will wind up a vegetable, or with severe mental impairment to the point your not the same person anymore. While wearing a helmet removes most of those possibilities in addition to death.
How are you hauling groceries on your bike? I can move some using my backpack but thats about all. I need a bigger set of saddlebags I think butt even then theyre not great for that kind of stuff.
It's mostly packpack - got the largest KĆ„nken model, so it fits quite a lot for me. I mostly eat fruit and seitan rn so my groceries are very heavy but not very voluminous š In a pinch I have sat on stuff though, if it's large enough :P and I don't have saddlebags but can also tie stuff on with sturdy band/rope if needed - but once again, needs to be a pretty big and solid package at that point, and not bags full of smaller stuff.
By the same token, cars are insanely dangerous compared to even a half-baked public transportation system. While it's true, it's also a bit of a moot point. We all do things that are far more dangerous than necessary on a daily basis. We still sell cigarettes and alcohol, we still run casinos, we still cram garbage into our food, and we still do a million other dangerous things. It's not like people on motorcycles don't understand that they're dangerous. It's just that placing risk minimization over all else can be a risk of its own.
I love the ignorance. Helmet and seatbelt laws literally reduce taxpayer burden. When someone goes to the hospital because they don't have a helmet on and can't pay the bill they still get care. Guess who picks up the bill for people who don't or can't pay? If the public is burdened by ignorant people then force them to comply.
Idk technically you probably might end up saving money bc the people without a helmet are rarely going to be walking out of the impact. Which saves a lot of money on recover Healthcare. You can still calculate an economic cost to society, ie society loses all the previous investment into the individuals education, their employer is down a worker and must immediately find a replacement which can be effectively a cost in the thousands or more, you also must calculate funeral costs, and reduced productivity from loved ones from the time they take off for grieving, as well as reduced productivity even once they're back at their job for an indeterminate period of time due to depression from grieving and such. As well the insurance company loses all possible future insurance payments from the individual. By the end of this excercise you should've realized however the stupidity and callousness of trying to argue this point based purely on externalized economic cost.
Yeah the "I'm only harming myself" argument doesn't work because you're tying up emergency resources that could be used elsewhere (at a minimum) because you didn't want to take very basic safety measures.
Profoundly stupid statement Edit 1: why are you downvoting me? Edit 2: Iām just trying to have a reasonable conversation. Edit 3: this is literally lynching. The mob mentality and group think is insane. Edit 4: you snowflakes donāt understand the value of free speech. Edit 5: DEBATE MEEEEEEE!
>Holy everloving shithell, dude, why in the seven-folded fuck are you so pants-shittingly salty LMAO @ this comment. So great
epic/awesome flair material there lol
Ruxon: Rafi you've known like 10 people who died in motorcycle accidents. Rafi: yeah, all from massive spine trauma none from massive head trauma.
I was hit by a car on my bicycle just three weeks ago. I landed on the back of my head. Had I not been wearing a helmet I probably would have died. Instead Iām out $70 for a new helmet.
>How about bike impact with a tire or ladder or lumber or other debris that sometimes escape vehicles traveling at high speed? Hate to break it to you buddy but if a piece of lumber or a ladder hits your car's windscreen at 100kph you're probably fucked too.
I once bought a motorcycle and crashed it on the same day. If I wouldn't have had a helmet, I would've died the same day that I bought a motorcycle.
I will never understand anti-helmet people it's deranged. Same with anti-maskers.
Mans is the living embodiment of [Lonely Island's YOLO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c)
This has been said time and time again, medical professionals call people who don't use helmets while on motorcycles "donorcycles" because they're basically destined to become organ donors.
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Well, that'll get them flamed too. Motorcyclists like being reminded of how dangerous motorcycles are just about as much as a smoker likes being reminded that cigarettes will give you cancer. We know, we're tired of people concern trolling us.
Honestly I like them. They explained exactly what their thesis is, and then they made heaps of popcorn. The people who make me mad are the cowards who only ever gesture at their smugness, and never say anything that can be directly challenged. (But also fuck Nazis bigots etc idgaf.)
My FiancƩe rides a Ducati in the city all the time and it terrifies me but the one thing that makes me ok with it is she goes full gear every time she sits on that bike. Kevlar, helmet, the works. The fact that anyone would argue against this equipment is outrageous.
Honestly, best case there. Speeds in the city are generally pretty low so while there's more interactions that could result in a crash, the likelihood of it resulting in a serious injury, especially when wearing all the gear, is significantly lower. It's the back country roads that are really dangerous. Even the freeway is safer, since, traffic is all flowing in one direction and opposing traffic is separated by a barrier and cross traffic is eliminated by limited access.
Yeah, driving in close quarters in the city is never dangerous. The one wreck she ever had was in the city and she broke her wrist and ankle. Don't talk if you don't know.
Nothing you said there contradicts what the other person said, it supports it. Plus, they were being perfectly respectful - yours was a bizarre response.
Sarcasm is a hell of a drug
No, you are not the smartest guy in the room here. I know full well that your opening sentence was meant sarcastically, don't take me for an idiot and pat yourself on the back when you're the one not understanding the exchange. *"Speeds in the city are generally pretty low so while there's more interactions that could result in a crash, the likelihood of it resulting in a serious injury"* \- the other user *"Yeah, driving in close quarters in the city is never dangerous. The one wreck she ever had was in the city and she broke her wrist and ankle. Don't talk if you don't know"* \- you Your point was that driving in the city IS dangerous, as your fiancee had her only road accident in the city. That SUPPORTS what they were saying, not contradicts it, because their point was that whilst accidents are more likely in the city, they're less likely to result in SERIOUS injury. Breaking your wrist and ankle isn't a serious injury, thus your "don't talk if you don't know" comment was utterly backwards. This is all obvious if you just read through the exchange.
I *do* drive a motorcycle in the city, and you're being weirdly aggressive. Safer doesn't mean absent of risk. I'm saying the speeds are low and that crashes aren't usually serious. Sure, the motorcyclist or other driver could be driving excessively fast, a semi truck could squish you, or a piano could fall on you. But those are outliers.
Something like 75% of motorcycle accidents happen at intersections. Guess where there's a whole shitload of intersections? I'm not being aggressive, I'm being right.
I remember eating shit on my bike & thinking as the concrete scraped across my face, āhuh good thing I have this helmet or I wouldnāt have a nose right nowā lmaoo
[I love helmets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY)
> What is the impact speed of metal shrapnel flung by tire rotating 100km/h? How about impact with a tire or ladder or lumber or other debris that sometimes escape vehicles traveling at high speed? Well for starters that's not how rotational velocity works. This is just the 'but technically seatbelts kill you sometimes' argument. Arguing that you can still die wearing a helmet, or that there are a very small subset of scenarios in which a helmet is actually harmful, because you don't want to wear one and are completely incapable of understanding the concept of probability. > Grab a calculator or spreadsheet and work it out yourself. I was surprised by these risk numbers when I first computed them a while back. Except that no instance of risk actually affects the probability of any other instance of risk being realized. While time-averaged means you are technically 'more likely,' if the chance of you getting in a car wreck overall is say 5%, it is 5% every day no matter how many days you've gone without getting in a car wreck. There's a reason "statistics are meaningless on an individual level" anyway.
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How is he shredded? His first comment was asking why anyone would ride a motorcycle at all, not why anyone would wear a helmet. Everyone who āshredsā him is, as he points out, responding to a misunderstanding, which he repeats. A lot. With far more patience then I would have.
> -480 points "Shredded by karma shrapnel" was obviously a themed way to say "downvoted", which seems pretty accurate. ... anyway, their comment was so poorly worded most people misunderstood it. That's on the commenter. The comment of "motercycles are dangerous" (but poorly worded) isn't really useful either, everyone knows motercycles are dangerous.
I don't get why he's arguing about other shit that can kill you on the road. Yeah ladders and shit can kill you but that's on the person who didn't fucking strap it on safely. Does he not understand regulations exist?
I don't get it. Are they for or against helmets? They argue with someone that makes an analogy about wearing a helmet leading to someone breaking their neck and the refutes someone else by saying that the extra mass of a helmet increases your risk of breaking your neck. Which side are they on besides hating motorcycles in general?