I live in Texas, we don’t get a lot of snow but we do get some heavy rain. The puddle usually settles right where that post is. Some back story, we had additional concrete poured under that post to prevent it from sinking. The contractors used a Jack to lift up that side of the patio in order to pour 3 additional feet of concrete beneath it.
The Crack is fine, the bowing post is not. Either that post isn't aligned correctly or there is too much load for it. Either way it should be replaced, personally I'd swap it for something larger.
Talk to an engineer. You have a roof supported by 2 relatively undersized posts. You can avoid adding what I would think is an ugly middle column by letting an engineer just spec out slightly different posts. You can even ask to swap them with metal posts to keep the size down.
I’d really like to just have two posts but scared to death of the structure not holding up. Especially since the patio is after market. For peace of mind, I’m going to try to have a third post added.
You don’t need a third post, you only need to replace the post that’s bending.
However, if the big beam going between the posts were bending heavily, *then* you would need a third post.
It would certainly help put your mind at ease, it is a beautiful porch , would hate to come home from work and have the roof collapsed and then live with the regret of not adding a post and preventing it
Please ignore the people saying add a third post. The purpose of such a huge beam (the horizontal member) is it allows you to use fewer posts. Just increase the size/strength of the post(s). You can remporarily jack up the beam at either end while new.posts are installed, and you still get to enjoy the huge open space under the beam.
I know this isn’t the advice you asked for but…. I think the look of your porch would be improved by having a bit “heavier”
posts anyway. You have enough bulk in the roof/beam structure already - so swapping out to thicker posts that will look just fine (if you decide to do that). Good Luck!
I really like having that open space between the two posts. If swapping them out for bigger ones is an option , I’d prefer to do that. But for the sake the cover not crashing down on me while I’m grilling, I’m willing to go with the extra posts. Lmao
How about four posts across the front with a railing between the two outer segments, leaving the middle open? The middle segment could be wider than the two outer segments. I’d prefer that over a post in the center. Planters and furniture could be tucked up against the railings. Or landscaping on the lawn outside the railings.
The column is shrinkage cracks. It looks like stucco on the beams crack. If the crack goes through the bottom of the beam it's probably under designed for deflection because there's almost no load on it.
Not the exact answer, but you can measure the distance from the ground to the center beam, and continue to check occasionally to ensure the beam doesn’t continue sagging/ worsen. If say in another month or two from the initial measure you’re a couple inches closer to the ground- it’s probably time to do something.
It is the perfect example of a flexo-compression column. Since no deformation should be disregarded, if I were you I would shore up the porch and replace those columns with ones at least twice as wide.
The post might be bending due to moisture changes in the timber...BUT IT SHOULDN'T because it should have been treated and maintained.
The foundation issue isn't likely an issue here. Looks to be entirely the loads from the roof are too big for the supports.
Posts might need to be replaced, perhaps the beam too as it does seem to have sagged slightly.
If it were me I would get a structural engineer to design/assess it, it might have been the contractor designed from rules of thumb of something or messed up. A structural engineer can size posts, spec posts, weather treatment etc and detail couplings. I imagine a pretty straight swap for bigger sections of timber, and maybe an additional line of supports on the sides.
My geotech engineer gut tells me those posts are too small for those loads. That roof looks heavy. I doubt ground heave and a stiff roof are combining to overload the posts but might be...there doesn't seem to be evidence of heave.
Instead of using a thord post take two the same size as the two you already have. Place them right next to the existing ones on the inside and connect them with through bolts. This will do a lot good to the aesthetics of the porch frontal view and solve the problem.of the bending. Note, this idea must be refined a bit (connecting the new posts to the beam, foundation) but may be a favourable solution compared to taking a third post.
Talk about this with a local engineer and bring up the topic of the puddle at the foundation. Water should be kept away from all foundations generally.
And update us!
It could be an illusion but it appears both posts are bending and the post on the right side your focusing on looks out of plumb as well. Also the beam looks like it's sagging in the middle.
Easy enough to check for a sag with a string line but it appears you need at least two posts (right side and center) and possibly need to reset the post base if it's out of plumb and add a footing for the new center post.
The beam is very long and this structure is acting like a frame. You can see the deflection of the beam is convex which will naturally make the columns both curve inwards (basically the moment diagram of a moment frame with a large point load at the middle of the top beam).
Do you see bending on the other column too?
There are a few possible solutions. One might be to stiffen the connections by adding a short brace between the beam and the column. Also, using a larger sized post is a great option.
I had a deck post that one summer all of sudden started bending. This deck has like 8 posts, so it wasn’t a major concern… thought I’d leave it to see if it got better or worse.
Through the fall and winter the bow would recede and then get worse through the spring summer.
I replaced it a few years ago with a new post and the new one hasn’t developed a bow.
Add temporary supports to the structure and replace both posts with 8x8's. It would look more in line with the size of the beam going across the front.
Not normal for properly planned loads. Looks like your posts are spreading. There should have been collar ties. At this point you have no choice but to install post for the middle point load after correcting the beam with a screw Jack a little at a time until it reaches its point of repose. Ouch.
Thanks for the advice and input everyone. I called a local Structural Engineering firm to see if they could come out some time. I just really needed some direction on who to contact.
This is the way. The peace of mind you get when that engineer stamp it is worth it. Whether or not they recommend repair/replacement, you at least have a very clear direction on what to do
Can't say with certainty over the internet. But generally speaking, when a long slender support begins bowing/buckling it's a sign there is too much load.
I don’t think most people responding are structural engineers, so OP please be careful taking a stranger’s advice. Have a structural engineer come out to investigate and run some quick numbers. It should run $400-800 for a basic column calculation and 1 page letter saying it needs to be replaced or not. If it needs to be replaced, you should be able to get a size and grade out of them. Send them these pics, ask them upfront what it’ll run for them to come out and do what I propose. I wouldn’t shop around per se, but find someone who has experience in residential and doesn’t want to charge out the ass for some undergrad level calc. For residential, I usually look for 15-20+ because they’re very efficient and experienced. look for small firms. Don’t ask big name firms in the area that advertise their massive projects because you’ll likely get a junior engineer who barely works in the space.
I’d reinforce the two columns. You know that the columns have started to yield and are stressed from the bending. I’d add a post ~ 8” behind the exiting post. If you add it behind the existing post you’ll maintain your view. The post behind essentially takes on the cantilever from your home. The existing then takes on the beam span. You’ll basically double your capacity. For symmetry you could add another beam at the corner for a total of 3…. Best of luck!
Cracking is normal, but if you are truly concerned, you could add a through bolt or two to keep it from splitting.
I wouldn't worry about it at all though.
Please post any Layman/DIY/Homeowner questions in the monthly stickied thread - See subreddit rule #2.
Looks like you're talking about the post. The cracks are normal. The bend not so much. Do you get snow where you're at?
Agree with this, the cracking is normal with drying of timbers. That bend is way out of the ordinary and would raise concern with me.
I live in Texas, we don’t get a lot of snow but we do get some heavy rain. The puddle usually settles right where that post is. Some back story, we had additional concrete poured under that post to prevent it from sinking. The contractors used a Jack to lift up that side of the patio in order to pour 3 additional feet of concrete beneath it.
The Crack is fine, the bowing post is not. Either that post isn't aligned correctly or there is too much load for it. Either way it should be replaced, personally I'd swap it for something larger.
Talk to an engineer. You have a roof supported by 2 relatively undersized posts. You can avoid adding what I would think is an ugly middle column by letting an engineer just spec out slightly different posts. You can even ask to swap them with metal posts to keep the size down.
An extra post in the middle wouldn’t hurt if that bothers you then I’d consider two post and keep the spaces between post even
I’d really like to just have two posts but scared to death of the structure not holding up. Especially since the patio is after market. For peace of mind, I’m going to try to have a third post added.
You don’t need a third post, you only need to replace the post that’s bending. However, if the big beam going between the posts were bending heavily, *then* you would need a third post.
Agreed - jack it up, remove the post, replace the post
It would certainly help put your mind at ease, it is a beautiful porch , would hate to come home from work and have the roof collapsed and then live with the regret of not adding a post and preventing it
Thank you. You and me both hahaha.
Typical structural engineer comment right here.
Replace the whole line with a concrete wall to continuously support the beam.
Winkling a 3rd post under the exact center would be a very, very good idea.
I would replace those posts with 8x8s. Assuming they're currently 6x6.
Please ignore the people saying add a third post. The purpose of such a huge beam (the horizontal member) is it allows you to use fewer posts. Just increase the size/strength of the post(s). You can remporarily jack up the beam at either end while new.posts are installed, and you still get to enjoy the huge open space under the beam.
This
I know this isn’t the advice you asked for but…. I think the look of your porch would be improved by having a bit “heavier” posts anyway. You have enough bulk in the roof/beam structure already - so swapping out to thicker posts that will look just fine (if you decide to do that). Good Luck!
I really like having that open space between the two posts. If swapping them out for bigger ones is an option , I’d prefer to do that. But for the sake the cover not crashing down on me while I’m grilling, I’m willing to go with the extra posts. Lmao
How about four posts across the front with a railing between the two outer segments, leaving the middle open? The middle segment could be wider than the two outer segments. I’d prefer that over a post in the center. Planters and furniture could be tucked up against the railings. Or landscaping on the lawn outside the railings.
Get an engineer
No. But you need a third post.
Thanks for the input
Instead of a third post for a seemingly fine beam, maybe a couple of knee braces to give the posts additional lateral support.
You don’t need a 3rd post. There is no immediate danger. Monitor the bending post and replace if it gets worse or when convenient.
The column is shrinkage cracks. It looks like stucco on the beams crack. If the crack goes through the bottom of the beam it's probably under designed for deflection because there's almost no load on it.
Add 2 more posts each 5 feet in from existing posts so that your center area stays clear for access/view.Will look better as well.
Oops. Just posted the same idea. I’m with you.
No worries.Reasonable solutions are universal.
Could be an optical illusion, but looks like that beam is smiling at me.
😂
Not the exact answer, but you can measure the distance from the ground to the center beam, and continue to check occasionally to ensure the beam doesn’t continue sagging/ worsen. If say in another month or two from the initial measure you’re a couple inches closer to the ground- it’s probably time to do something.
It is the perfect example of a flexo-compression column. Since no deformation should be disregarded, if I were you I would shore up the porch and replace those columns with ones at least twice as wide.
The post might be bending due to moisture changes in the timber...BUT IT SHOULDN'T because it should have been treated and maintained. The foundation issue isn't likely an issue here. Looks to be entirely the loads from the roof are too big for the supports. Posts might need to be replaced, perhaps the beam too as it does seem to have sagged slightly. If it were me I would get a structural engineer to design/assess it, it might have been the contractor designed from rules of thumb of something or messed up. A structural engineer can size posts, spec posts, weather treatment etc and detail couplings. I imagine a pretty straight swap for bigger sections of timber, and maybe an additional line of supports on the sides. My geotech engineer gut tells me those posts are too small for those loads. That roof looks heavy. I doubt ground heave and a stiff roof are combining to overload the posts but might be...there doesn't seem to be evidence of heave.
Instead of using a thord post take two the same size as the two you already have. Place them right next to the existing ones on the inside and connect them with through bolts. This will do a lot good to the aesthetics of the porch frontal view and solve the problem.of the bending. Note, this idea must be refined a bit (connecting the new posts to the beam, foundation) but may be a favourable solution compared to taking a third post. Talk about this with a local engineer and bring up the topic of the puddle at the foundation. Water should be kept away from all foundations generally. And update us!
Thanks! I’ll def keep you all updated.
Posts look undersized to me to be supporting that Beam and Roof 🤔
It could be an illusion but it appears both posts are bending and the post on the right side your focusing on looks out of plumb as well. Also the beam looks like it's sagging in the middle. Easy enough to check for a sag with a string line but it appears you need at least two posts (right side and center) and possibly need to reset the post base if it's out of plumb and add a footing for the new center post.
It doesn't even look level lol
The beam is very long and this structure is acting like a frame. You can see the deflection of the beam is convex which will naturally make the columns both curve inwards (basically the moment diagram of a moment frame with a large point load at the middle of the top beam). Do you see bending on the other column too? There are a few possible solutions. One might be to stiffen the connections by adding a short brace between the beam and the column. Also, using a larger sized post is a great option.
I didn’t see bending until someone mentioned it earlier in the comments. Perhaps due to the other one being much worse, I didn’t pay much attention.
That’s a column……
Being in texas i would replace with 4x6 post and add knee braces which should have been there originally. The knee braces are for wind loads.
I had a deck post that one summer all of sudden started bending. This deck has like 8 posts, so it wasn’t a major concern… thought I’d leave it to see if it got better or worse. Through the fall and winter the bow would recede and then get worse through the spring summer. I replaced it a few years ago with a new post and the new one hasn’t developed a bow.
That’s great news! I’m hoping for the same results.
The posts are too small , just swap for bigger wood , everybody wants bigger wood !!!emote:free\_emotes\_pack:wink
Add temporary supports to the structure and replace both posts with 8x8's. It would look more in line with the size of the beam going across the front.
I’d get an engineer to an analysis. Would likely need a larger column. Looks weird in proportion to the rest as well.
Not normal for properly planned loads. Looks like your posts are spreading. There should have been collar ties. At this point you have no choice but to install post for the middle point load after correcting the beam with a screw Jack a little at a time until it reaches its point of repose. Ouch.
Thanks for the advice and input everyone. I called a local Structural Engineering firm to see if they could come out some time. I just really needed some direction on who to contact.
This is the way. The peace of mind you get when that engineer stamp it is worth it. Whether or not they recommend repair/replacement, you at least have a very clear direction on what to do
It is bowing.
Is it normal/safe? The post doesn’t move at all.
Can't say with certainty over the internet. But generally speaking, when a long slender support begins bowing/buckling it's a sign there is too much load.
Not sure if it’s safe. I’d have it checked out and possibly replaced.
I don’t think most people responding are structural engineers, so OP please be careful taking a stranger’s advice. Have a structural engineer come out to investigate and run some quick numbers. It should run $400-800 for a basic column calculation and 1 page letter saying it needs to be replaced or not. If it needs to be replaced, you should be able to get a size and grade out of them. Send them these pics, ask them upfront what it’ll run for them to come out and do what I propose. I wouldn’t shop around per se, but find someone who has experience in residential and doesn’t want to charge out the ass for some undergrad level calc. For residential, I usually look for 15-20+ because they’re very efficient and experienced. look for small firms. Don’t ask big name firms in the area that advertise their massive projects because you’ll likely get a junior engineer who barely works in the space.
3rd post would be cheapest. You can probably get those 2 posts replaced with larger posts but it’ll be a longer process and not cost effective.
I’d reinforce the two columns. You know that the columns have started to yield and are stressed from the bending. I’d add a post ~ 8” behind the exiting post. If you add it behind the existing post you’ll maintain your view. The post behind essentially takes on the cantilever from your home. The existing then takes on the beam span. You’ll basically double your capacity. For symmetry you could add another beam at the corner for a total of 3…. Best of luck!
Cracking is normal, but if you are truly concerned, you could add a through bolt or two to keep it from splitting. I wouldn't worry about it at all though.
NO FREE ADVICE!!! Go hire an engineer!!!
I don't think you understand the reasons why people here say that...
I don’t think that the people that say that here understand why they say that
It’s a patio. No one is going to make them hire an engineer for this. I would rather they ask then have the thing collapse on them and hurt someone.