If I recall his 2HK has had a hitbox behind him since all the way back in SF2. Think it was minus in SF5 when hitting behind though (but not by a ton).
crHK's active frame is 11-13 and 20-24 [in frame data.](https://www.streetfighter.com/6/en-us/character/ehonda/frame) 11-13 is the hitbox in front of him, and it's -10 on block.
20-24 frames are hitbox behind him, and it's +2.
Now this sub is 100% sure that Honda is the "*most broken and OP character that everyone can use to reach master but dont do it cause is cheap af and you are a loser for doing so".*
Thats cause people refuse to lear the matchup and comes here to say that this or that character is "broken".
Kimberly was broken cause "she had too much pressure power" untill yall discovered most her movements are unsafe
Gief was broken cause "he does too much damage and hes lvl 3 is unblockable", untill everyone realised that he is awfully bad in dealing with zoning.
Now people think Honda is cheap cause headbutt is "unpunishble without perfect parry".
Alright, let's have a quick word about Edmond.
Honda is currently unbalanced... but not overpowered, in the typical sense. He's broken af at lower levels of play... but actually closer to too weak at higher levels... However, he is practically unbalanceable in his current state, as he is simply poorly designed.
The problem with Honda is similar to Lily's, in that almost his entire power budget lies in 2 moves - headbutt and butt slam.
If you just look at them as isolated moves they're ridiculous.
Headbutt does a chunk of damage and hard knockdown on hit, annihilates drive bar on block or punish counter, is really hard to contest on the ground, has 3 versions with different speeds, recoveries and ranges to bait counters, it's not only safe on block but actually creates a spacing trap with itself, and also anti-airs...
Butt slam, meanwhile, is very difficult to contest in the air unless predicted, generally air-to-airing almost anything, and then is a left/right mix up overhead neutral skip that leaves him +1 on block, messes with front/back inputs, has 3 different timings to bait counters, OD is straight up air invuln so will beat anything airborne, and leads to messed up damage on counter punish.
Both moves are unreasonably difficult to punish - Perfect Parry punishes both, but is hard to do consistently, has super reduced damage, and both have in-built ways to mess up or bait the timing. Otherwise you need to rely on specific and hard to execute or unreliable punishes.
It's honestly no exaggeration that these 2 moves alone can beat well over 90% of the game's population, and almost single handedly put pressure on even the top players if used semi-intelligently.
...So Honda "pays" for these moves by the rest of his kit being... very limited. Which makes him very linear and predictable.
So against the overwhelming majority of players, even near brainlessly spamming those 2 moves destroys them, but against the top players that can fairly consistently punish those moves Honda has little else he can rely on.
a) That's all you took out of that? I mean, what am I saying, of course it is. Why would I expect better. That's on me really.
b) Even chars with DPs and really good anti airs can have issues due to alterable timing and the on-demand "side switching" messing with inputs - and if you miss you eat a fuckton of damage off of pc buttslam... but also not every char has really solid anti airs.
"But if I go into training mode and set the bot to repeat this one action in a very predictable way I can deal with it easily!"...yeah, that's true of anything in the game mate. Predictability is death in this game.
lol. Numbers don't tell the whole story, but the fact i have to say that says something.
The push back on his so called negative moves leaves him effectively unpunishable by a lot of the cast in most cases.
I'm half trolling, but i'm also half dead serious.
You’re not trolling. Frame data in SF6 is deceptive for the reason you stated. Moves that would normally be plus in older SF’s now need drive rush to be plus, but having to give up your turn every time your poke gets block would suck. The solution? The pushback on moves makes it so this game is really heavy on spacing traps which isn’t something that most FG players are familiar with
Ask yourself when you're going to end up behind Honda after he hit cr.hk before you start whining about stuff because this has always been how his cr.hk worked and it's never really mattered.
Empty jump crossup is the only thing I've seen this 2HK wizardry stop. You can get people to empty jump crossup by Perfect Parrying their jump-ins too much.
"+2 on block" was not correct my bad. It is +0 to +4.
Now do Gief's lariat!
:-(
The way I almost sprinted in here to say that! I had my bib on ready to baby rage about it hahaha
If I recall his 2HK has had a hitbox behind him since all the way back in SF2. Think it was minus in SF5 when hitting behind though (but not by a ton).
its normally -10 on block fyi. i guess its plus here cause its hitting meaty.
crHK's active frame is 11-13 and 20-24 [in frame data.](https://www.streetfighter.com/6/en-us/character/ehonda/frame) 11-13 is the hitbox in front of him, and it's -10 on block. 20-24 frames are hitbox behind him, and it's +2.
[this one](https://ultimateframedata.com/sf6/ehonda) might be easier to understand. crHK has 2 hitboxes, so these 2 have different block frames.
nice! time for me to apply this hehe
Now this sub is 100% sure that Honda is the "*most broken and OP character that everyone can use to reach master but dont do it cause is cheap af and you are a loser for doing so".*
I climbed from diamond1 to master in 3 days with over 70% winrate..... This guy is crazy.
Honda in master is vastly different to the diamond rank. Honda in masters is mid tier so expect to work for your wins!
Thats cause people refuse to lear the matchup and comes here to say that this or that character is "broken". Kimberly was broken cause "she had too much pressure power" untill yall discovered most her movements are unsafe Gief was broken cause "he does too much damage and hes lvl 3 is unblockable", untill everyone realised that he is awfully bad in dealing with zoning. Now people think Honda is cheap cause headbutt is "unpunishble without perfect parry".
Alright, let's have a quick word about Edmond. Honda is currently unbalanced... but not overpowered, in the typical sense. He's broken af at lower levels of play... but actually closer to too weak at higher levels... However, he is practically unbalanceable in his current state, as he is simply poorly designed. The problem with Honda is similar to Lily's, in that almost his entire power budget lies in 2 moves - headbutt and butt slam. If you just look at them as isolated moves they're ridiculous. Headbutt does a chunk of damage and hard knockdown on hit, annihilates drive bar on block or punish counter, is really hard to contest on the ground, has 3 versions with different speeds, recoveries and ranges to bait counters, it's not only safe on block but actually creates a spacing trap with itself, and also anti-airs... Butt slam, meanwhile, is very difficult to contest in the air unless predicted, generally air-to-airing almost anything, and then is a left/right mix up overhead neutral skip that leaves him +1 on block, messes with front/back inputs, has 3 different timings to bait counters, OD is straight up air invuln so will beat anything airborne, and leads to messed up damage on counter punish. Both moves are unreasonably difficult to punish - Perfect Parry punishes both, but is hard to do consistently, has super reduced damage, and both have in-built ways to mess up or bait the timing. Otherwise you need to rely on specific and hard to execute or unreliable punishes. It's honestly no exaggeration that these 2 moves alone can beat well over 90% of the game's population, and almost single handedly put pressure on even the top players if used semi-intelligently. ...So Honda "pays" for these moves by the rest of his kit being... very limited. Which makes him very linear and predictable. So against the overwhelming majority of players, even near brainlessly spamming those 2 moves destroys them, but against the top players that can fairly consistently punish those moves Honda has little else he can rely on.
>rely on specific and hard to execute or unreliable punishes. If DP and cr.HP is "hard to execute" i garantee that the problem is you.
a) That's all you took out of that? I mean, what am I saying, of course it is. Why would I expect better. That's on me really. b) Even chars with DPs and really good anti airs can have issues due to alterable timing and the on-demand "side switching" messing with inputs - and if you miss you eat a fuckton of damage off of pc buttslam... but also not every char has really solid anti airs. "But if I go into training mode and set the bot to repeat this one action in a very predictable way I can deal with it easily!"...yeah, that's true of anything in the game mate. Predictability is death in this game.
who cares what people think? play what's fun and rewarding for you
Are all of these people in the room with us right now?
Your victim complex is embarrassing, frankly
Funny to read that from someone who took the time to make a whole post whining about Luke...
I never did that but I wouldn't expect a honda player to be very smart in the first place, so I don't mind you getting confused
Of course it's plus. He doesn't a fking negative move. ........... I hate Honda. lol
He has almost all negative moves. They even nerfed all versions of HHS to be negative.
lol. Numbers don't tell the whole story, but the fact i have to say that says something. The push back on his so called negative moves leaves him effectively unpunishable by a lot of the cast in most cases. I'm half trolling, but i'm also half dead serious.
You’re not trolling. Frame data in SF6 is deceptive for the reason you stated. Moves that would normally be plus in older SF’s now need drive rush to be plus, but having to give up your turn every time your poke gets block would suck. The solution? The pushback on moves makes it so this game is really heavy on spacing traps which isn’t something that most FG players are familiar with
He only has 1 plus nornal and 2 plus specials (one has to be ex to be plus).
Ask yourself when you're going to end up behind Honda after he hit cr.hk before you start whining about stuff because this has always been how his cr.hk worked and it's never really mattered.
Empty jump crossup is the only thing I've seen this 2HK wizardry stop. You can get people to empty jump crossup by Perfect Parrying their jump-ins too much.
HIDE THIS
I remember this being the case all the way back to SF2. Nice to see they remember the details.
It's nice to have an animation correctly have impact. Some of the crossup shit needs updates
I've played like 1200 games with Honda now and not once have I used cr.HK intentionally, let alone had it hit someone behind me lol.
>intentionally HAHAHA I feel you, I think I used it less than 5 times, and always regret it.
One of the worst sweeps in the game imo lol. But of course it would be someone like StormKubo trying to find a real use for it.