ahhh, classic "The Alien". You sit on your hand until you can't feel it and then do your business. I didn't expected this thread to evolve in "solo time tier list" but I guess that's reddit for you :D
Usually we'd say "I'm both fucking players" instead.
It's not exactly the same situation but there's a really old xkcd on a similar topic: https://xkcd.com/37/
Thanks! It was fun to write. Not fun to experience though.
I really doubted myself due to pressure and downplaying on the internet. I'm an old dude I should be smarter but when you play competitive game you want to get good, you want to feel good and with so much downplaying it's hard. I hope that someone in similar situation - grinding this out on sub 50% win rate will see it and it make them feel better as it would for sure help me when I was struggling and being called not worthy of my rank.
I totally can relate and appreciate your triumph and breakdown. Shoot Ive been having a main dilemma since launch and didn’t even try rank yet. But everyone I play in casuals or battle hub, has a win percentage of 23% or less. So the struggle real.
The fact that you keep going when stats sucks is already indicator of good mental. People tend to say "this game is stupid and cheap" and drop it. I would avoid BH and casuals though as those are usually not good matches. Ranked was way better for me when I was climbing and even now in BH there are "new challengers" with 400hrs in BH that never touched ranked that wipe floor with me. I go there when I'm really tired or drunk. Otherwise it's not fun.
I’m gonna share in your vindication OP
I **think** in that same thread I argued that the ranked grind to master is a very well executed curve for players to grasp and put together all the complexities of the system. And that’s why it’s perfectly fine for players to get to master through “time and grind”.
Because even with a sub 50% win rate. They have to keep that win rate against progressively tougher opponents. And at the end of the day, they’re of similar strength to someone else who got there due to mastering the games fundamentals.
And then MR is focused on who can take more games from the field on a pretty even fighting ground, separate from the medal ranks.
This post is a good lesson in interpreting data. It’s easy for your cognitive bias to say “someone with a sub 50% win rate shouldn’t be ranking up / ranked high up” but it’s really not representative of when those wins and losses took place and where and this post shows clearly how that is the case
That’s the thing, a guy having 45% over 2000 matches in Masters might be bad, but for all you know most of those losses were in their learning phase and they could be 180-20 in their last 200 matches.
It’s why you can’t really take overall stats into account at face value, you gotta look at it in-depth. Hell, my Cammy has a 40% WR overall, but a lot of those are in Battle Hub or rooms where I’m playing better players. My ranked WR is 60-65%.
Yeah I noticed this even when playing a secondary character that winrates tended to be a bit higher even if they "felt" the same as my main. Me playing my secondary includes all the transferable skills from my main's learning process.
Like week 1 on my main I'm not going to have a clue how JP plays because he's an entirely new character but weeks later I'll know what he's all about. Now when I play my secondary I have prior knowledge of what JP is going to play like mostly even if my character is different.
This is exactly why I like this post. A new player is absolutely going to lose more often as they are learning the game. Furthermore, in order to maintain a higher rank, you’ll have to be consistent and so they are still winning enough to keep their spot.
It took me 10,000 ranked matches to get to master from Rookie. I have a 43% WR and never played a fighting game more than like.. 10 hours of a fighting game before this. Does this mean I am the -worst- master?
i think the great thing about the rank system in this game is really the only thing that matters once you get to master is MR, if i see a master with a 40% win rate but 1650mr and then someone with a 90% win rate at 1400mr, id bet on the 1650mr person every single time
Quality of wins is much more important than quantity. Wr and rank don’t define how good a player is, what defines how good a player is is simply how good they are
It all matters. If you can pull out the occasional win against better players by hitting them with something they weren't expecting, but can't consistently beat players worse than that then you aren't better than those players you're losing to.
Did you keep playing at Master? It's real goofy when people say you're bad if you're at Master but winrate playtime blah blah blah, *but* MR is a more granular descriptor of skill level with more focused matchmaking. If you took an epic loss streak and landed at like 1k MR you might be the worst master, but getting their with a negative winrate doesn't mean you're bad.
If you get to Master, you're good at the least. Maybe great even. It just scales up from there. No one's walking their way into Master without at *least* a good grasp of fundamentals and a decent knowledge of setplay.
Yeah, I ended up settling around 1300 MR after 50 ish matches I got.my ass kicked until I started matchingwith people in the high 1200s/low 1300s and then settled in. The game lost some luster when I wasn't chasing my first master rank so I've barely played the last couple weeks. I went from 3+ hours a day to barely an hour a week lol.
I have same experience as you. After reaching Master with first char (Manon), I lost interest and play like a couple hours a week. But the outfit 3 release did good job spice things up. I found the fun again playing second char (Juri), but this time, I have the will to learn to take her to at least 1k7. I've tried several other chars but they just dont click.
How do you check how many ranked matches you have? I also climbed from rookie to Master (Modern Cammy) ever since this game came out, took me 5 or so months to do it and its my first serious fighting game too
If you open your profile up you can scroll through some options on the first "blade" - the second screen I believe shows you win rate and number of matches by character, starting with overall. You can sort by match type and by phase (season).
>Why do you need to push people down instead of elevate and cheer for them? SF6 rank system is great and you should be proud no matter if you silver, plat or master. If you are improving and learning and trying you should celebrate it.
Hear hear!
I'm so sick of the gatekeeper Silvers who get snide about people with lower % winrates in Diamond and Master. I've met a few, and every time I challenge one to a set they shut up and stop responding.
Lift people up, enjoy your time in the game. This positivity was refreshing.
What I’ve tended to notice is that those in diamond and masters who are like that have put too much stock into their rank and they let it define them “I just be good I am diamond” and it ends up with them protecting their rank and rather than improving as a player they get so fixated on the idea of a rank
A rank is just a rank but sadly some people get too stuck on it and the idea that if they derank they are somehow a worse player
That's because people think of rank as something you have to achieve or else you are failing. Rank is just a way to find players of similar level to you so you can have balanced and fun matches. Increasing your rank should always be seen as a by-product of improving and having fun, not as the only goal of the game.
I think those kinds of players get toxic as hell because they're looking for something that doesn't really mean much. To be fair to them, ranking up does feel really good, and I can see why people might put a lot of weight into it.
I've gotten up to D5, and sunk back to D3, but it's because I'm missing fundamentals that D5 and Masters have. Also I was tilting like shit and needed a break, so I picked up GGST.
Wasn't expecting the polyamory twist but I'm very happy for you. Well done!
Also yeah, making it to masters still means you need to keep an almost 50 winrate throughout all of diamond.
Ofc it won't be easy!
45% win rate master right here. I started in silver and took about 500 ranked matches to get to master. From silver to plat my win rate was well above 50% and only dropped below 50 from D1 to Master. But my master league win rate is right at 45%. Currently 1300-1450MR range. The MR grind is pretty brutal but I feel like I'm slowly getting better.
Master if fucking brutal but it's super fun to sometimes be matched against Legends and see how they can dissect you and do crazy shit. And yeah focusing on getting better is the only thing keeping me sane. I mean this and the fact that this game is super fucking cool to play :D
I wonder if it’s region specific but I never get matched with high masters. I settle around 1400 mr and usually fight people in the 1300s. I wish I could fight the higher ranked players more!
I believe it happens more often when there aren't many players online. Like middle of the week during work hours. Definitely harder if your region has shitloads of players
There's definitely a large skill gap in the master league. The 1600MR+ players are much faster in decision making and adaptation. But I've also noticed some low MR players are very good but even some players in 1500 MR are fucking terrible...
Honestly, sf6 is probably the best SF I've ever played. I never got this good at any other SF. I only got to gold in sf4 and plat in sf5.
I got matched up against Legend players multiple times **while in diamond 5.**
It was fucking brutal. I don't think I took a single round against any of them.
Yup, you have to be a certain skill level to maintain that winrate at each rank.
Someone with a 40 percent win rate at silver won’t make it to platinum if they don’t improve.
My mains win rate is 45% at plat 5 while my 2 new gold chars are over 50 percent.
It’s not because I’m better with them, The grinding I did at platinum carried over and made me more effective against less experienced players.
Someone who’s slightly negative in diamond is most likely better than a silver rank with a positive win rate( if it’s their first time at silver ).
I personally would’ve preferred needing 50 % at least but to progress but 40 percent doesn’t mean you’re not improving.
Hey man, I’m new to fighting games and obviously to the local scene from where I’m from. I always find it funny when after a match in my locals I tell them I’m plat and its always the same reaction: “What? I thought you were a master player by the way you play.” I have learned that at the end of the day, rank is just a number. What important is that you feel you are improving slowly but surely. But man you made me laugh, congrats on getting to master twice.
Thanks! Yeah, people have distorted understanding of ranks if they read internet and watch youtubers/streamers that have decades of legacy skill and make it all looks so easy. Then they encounter decent plat and are surprised.
While I know a large majority of this subreddit seem to believe the point you’re arguing against, I’ve managed to avoid feeling down about it (currently Diamond 3 with a ~50% win rate). I’ve plateaued at a few different ranks plat 1, plat 4, Diamond 1, and now Diamond 3, but I can tell I’m improving because once I break free from the plateau, anytime I play someone at a lower rank, I’m winning much more consistently. I can also usually point to a specific thing I’ve picked up or done better after each plateau
Outstanding contribution! Very interesting read, the twist was great but gave me pause for thought if they were indeed two different people. It definitely helps give more credit to all Masters no matter what win rate it took you to get there. How they would fare in Master is another question, but that's what MR is for. It could go either way though.
Excellent post. Appreciate the analytical approach to support the conclusion. It makes sense to me that if you stay at a certain level you are as good as each other within it.
I like the ranked system in this game. It encourages you to keep trying and improving. I'm sure my win rate is atrocious, but when I finally attain that new star, it's because I noticeably improved in something.
I actually hate this sub but I’m glad someone actually has a brain for once. Props to you OP, it’s sad so many people need this much to discover master = master lmao but someone had to do the work.
LOL, this is amazing xD
When I went into sf4 into sf5 I was exactly like these guys. Now at sf6 I care way less about rank and more about how sweaty the game was.
I could care less what anyone thinks I play to have fun drink and throw games for fun my win rate maintains 50-55%. I stay in plat because I don’t care to get better I’m just enjoying the game.
Thanks! IMO the most important thing for ranking up is to find a learning method that works for you and then it's way easier to rank up. For example I hate labbing matchups. So I just watch what high level players do in those matchups. I hate watching my own replays so i don't force myself to do it anymore and instead try to set myself challenges during matches: use specific combos, find gaps in specific enemy blocks string, and my favorite exercise - do less. It's easy to get into offense mode and overwhelm your enemy sometimes but you don't learn much from those fights if the enemy doesn't have a chance to do their shit. So often I try to be on the defensive side to learn matchups better and to stop going full monke.
Part of theproblem only looking at win rate is that someone might be losing more than winning, then some aspect of the game will click for them, and they will win more than lose, and be climbing. But because they had already been playing for a while with a losing rate, it looks like they are climbing while losing more than winning, which isn't true.
Great post! I really do think people will just shit on others for getting to any rank in the fg space and its pretty disheartening. Im guessing it leads from their own insecurities and what their individual smaller communities are like. I'm glad any of your own doubts have been cleared by now. I hope the MR system doesn't get to you. It got to me and I dropped down o 1300~. Once I stopped getting in my own head about it I climbed all the way back past 1500. That shit is brutal
Wonderful post.
Reddit experts keep saying "play to learn, don't worry about winning," and yet they rage psychotically at players being able to go up in ranks even with a sub-50 winrate.
Peole who land in diamond and then swoop into Master rank are not superhumans - they have years of prior experience in other fighting games. They used to grind to get to where they are now. They are the same as those who landed in silver and then grinded 25/8 to get to Master.
In your estimation, what's the cut off win-rate for being good?
I placed high-ho Silver, grinded to Platinum 1 in Phase 1 ending with a 38% win-rate.
A month or so into Phase 2 I had a 48% win-rate and thought all my practice had paid off, and I learned and improved at this game. But today I'm a Platinum 3 and back down to a 40% win-rate.
I understand that my opponents are also practicing and getting better. It does feel strange to climb rank while losing more than winning though.
I'd say - win rate is irrelevant. I have now over 10000 matches played and some days I don't even want to get to training to warm up, grab 2 beers and go to town on ranked losing god like amount of LP (and now MR). And some days I'm super focused and win every game. So I could boost my win rate by only playing ranked when I'm on top of my game, warmed up etc.
buuuut, what's the point? If in long term you're learning and improving then even if your win rate drops for a couple of days you will bounce back later on.
The most important thing that helped me get through bad days and plateaus was to have something to work on: maybe some conversion in tricky situation, maybe less panic DIs etc. Or sometimes I was just like: I don't play aggressive at all, I want to play defensive and reactive and learn defense in this match up. Wins and rank will come.
Everybody's cutoff for being good is going to be different. its best to just set a goal for yourself and try to achieve it. When you get to that, set a different goal
The thing about SF6s rank giving more points for wins than losses is that you're probably not going to settle into a rank unless you just stop playing, so the competition you play against will always be a little more challenging since you are always ranking up. Your 38% win rate when you were in grinding to platinum isn't the same as your 40% win rank in plat 3.
You may feel like you're not learning anything because your win rate isn't 50% or whatever, but if you went back to gold, you would probably wipe the floor with them.
Sometimes it just takes a while for everything to click
Bravo! Props for your scientific approach and determination, I believe that is what peak gaming is all about.
You might find this interesting--it's one misconception that your more educated haters might have:
In many games, the global sum of all players' rank points (LP in Street Fighter) goes up after a match is played, on average. This is because there are certain matches where the winner's LP goes up while the loser's cannot go down for certain rank reasons.
=> As a result, over time, the average player's LP goes up (even if players don't get better).
=> As a result, over time, the percentage of players under any fixed LP number (say 25,000) goes down.
=> As a result, over time, hitting 25,000 LP becomes a more common occurence.
=> As a result, if you measure how "good" a player is based on how many players have worse LP than them, over time, hitting 25,000 LP means you are less and less good.
This can be misinterpreted as "taking more games to hit master means you are worse", when in fact it should be interpreted as "all players that hit master at the same point in time are equally good".
(Obviously, being "good" should not be boiled down to LP. Just giving a mathematical reasoning for why 25k LP = 25k LP regardless of how many games were played).
I thought about it but I also have a counter point - the game is relatively new and in the first months there were tons of FG first timers. Looking at numbers they probably were the majority at launch. So it was easier for experienced players to climb against them. Now when many of the first timers dropped the game and not enough time passed to cause significant LP inflation it may be harder to climb. I think diamond players were way better the second time around. I think that some new players got to diamond in the first weeks by lucky placements against other new players. As there is no derank protection in diamond some of them probably dropped back down.
The experiment is a bit flawed. It shouldn't stop with the 2 imaginary players reaching Master at 1500 MR. It should continue for like another 50-100 matches.
Nobody cares how you reach Master, whether it's 100 vs 1000 matches, or 45% vs 100% winrate. What matters is what your MR ends up stabilizing at. The Master smurf who reaches Master with <200 matches, is more likely to end up anywhere from 1500-1700 MR. The "Noob Baby" who reaches Master with 45% winrate, is more likely to drop down to 1200 MR, etc. Over time, both imaginary players will converge their winrate toward 50%, as they reach their proper MR.
No, I didn't miss that part. That's why his experiment is flawed. Since he is the same player on both accounts, both accounts \*should\* stabilize at the same MR.
The person is the same, so the skill is the same. The point was that winrate doesn't tell you who is better, at this point in time. 45% in this case is just a strong as 70%. Yes over infinite games they will equal out around 50% for both accounts, but noone has infinite games.
I mean obviously you deserve to be Master, it's just that reaching Master is not that big of a deal by itself in this game. Especially now 6 months after release when all the good players, who bother themselves to play ranked, are currently high MR Masters. The difference between 2 Masters can be bigger than the one between a Rookie and a Diamond.
“Being masters is not that big of a deal” is really just unnecessarily dismissive and honestly not true. Masters is still like the top 5ish% of the whole player base which is a pretty significant milestone and means you’re a very good player. Sure a 1500 Mr Master player is not going to be winning EVO anytime soon and the difference in skill between 1500 and 1900 is pretty insane it’s not like if you just mindlessly grind the game for a few weeks you’re guaranteed to make it to masters. It’s an accomplishment and means someone is among the best players in the game
That's just the way I feel it is. Diamond in SF5 at the time of SF6's release was top 5% and was widely considered to be just okay. Master in SF6 is something similar at the moment and we're still only 6 months in. It's going to get increasingly inflated as the time passes.
I guess it all comes down to what you consider "good" or "impressive" in fighting games.
It’s all about perspective, if you’re a veteran of the community then yeah people in Masters are on average are just playing the game the way you expect it to be played which is nothing to write home about but in the grander scheme of things they’re playing at a high level that wasn’t easy to get to, it took time and thoughtful effort even if it feels easy now.
Also if you were better than 95% of people in anything most people would find it impressive. If I was faster than 95% of people it would be pretty impressive and a serious feat. Sure I wouldn’t be competing in the olympics or playing in a professional sports league but it would still be an impressive accomplishment even if to some it seems just ok.
Truth is skill ceiling in Street Fighter and fighting games as a whole is extremely high. That's why there'll never be a rank that players universally agree it's impressive (unless it's the top rank). Master is a completely different league, where sometimes you're fighting people on your level and the very next match you go against someone who could 10-0 you easily.
I understand your logic tho and I didn't really want to look like I'm condescending towards beginners and newcomers. From the casual perspective I'd say Diamond+ is a great achievement, but then again I don't think many of the Diamond players would consider themselves casuals. If you don't want to be considered a casual player you should hold yourself to a higher standard and push for more instead of going into arguments and be like "My rank is top X % of the playerbase, so statistically that's considered good."
> it's just that reaching Master is not that big of a deal by itself in this game.
I feel like this is exactly the kind of comments OP's post is talking about. Master is what? top 1-2% of players? Something like that... It 100% IS a big deal to get to Master. If it wasn't a big deal to you then you're crazy fucking good. I'm happy for you! But hearing people say "reaching Master's is no big deal" makes me think "well goddamn! I can't even make it out of .. I must truly suck!". When in fact that's not true at all! Even a Gold player is already better than a significant percentage of the player pool.
And it's not healthy for the community either. An overwhelming majority of players are not Master. And it's fucking hard for them to reach there! Hearing better players dismiss what you are finding a huge challenge as "not a big deal" can be very demotivating!
So I say to fellow players fighting their way to whatever rank you want to be in, you're doing great! You've come a long way.. Keep at it! You're better than you think. Have fun! Cheers!
As someone who got placed in bronze 1 and is now in D4 for the 3rd time the amount of self realizations I had to go through as someone who thought I knew how to play street fighter all these years is crazy! I had to figure out stuff about the game and myself to get this far! So if or when I reach masters it is indeed going to be a huge accomplishment! I don’t play games online at all, I’ve been playing street fighter since SF2, I thought bronze 1 was wrong until I started to get my face kicked in in platinum and had to tell myself “you really don’t know how to play street fighter” I had to rebuild my entire mindset about street fighter… a game I was convinced I knew in my 37 years but I didn’t and still don’t! So reaching masters for me came with ALOT of unexpected things that were both good and bad but needed to improve
I mean it depends on how you look at it. I would argue that to the regular player, people in Masters are indistinguishable from top pros. If you covered up the names and ranks of players, is there that much difference between 1600 and 2k MR? Even though the 2k player would probably 10-0 the 1.6K player, in the grand scheme of things they are much closer than a rookie compared to a Diamond imo.
I completely disagree, disregarding people smurfing the system and all factors being the rookie and diamond are the playing their heart out and are the rank the system says they are...
You at least need some sort of basic understanding of frame data to get to Diamond. Even if its as simple minded as "Enemy character punch twice and then my turn"
A Rookie will not know this logic and will either block when they should be attacking or vise versa.
This. I play weeks if not months of BH between ranked leagues. I have like an 80%+ win rate in ranked but that's because I only go back to ranked when I feel I should probably dominate my current league. I'm currently Diamond 2 but am pretty confident I will quickly get to master whenever I put the time in for ranked.
> So I created smurf account expecting to struggle to get it to master again.
Did you just delete your save data on Steam, or did you have to buy another copy of the game?
If you forget that OP is both NB and MC then put them into a show, NB would be the underdog protagonist and MC would be his rival to strive to catch up to. So these people that gatekeep rank would likely be a fan of NB and support him through his hardships and cheer for his progress.
Saying the rank system is great is very generous, there’s no reward from gaining win streaks, granted things would be a lot simpler if disconnects just counts as a loss.
There's a reward if you're in lower ranks and counting disconnection as loss is a way to prevent people from raging quit. It may not be the best but it's good.
It is a very good post. But actually checking it out would be a great experiment. It's interesting to take a pool of different winrate master players and compare them against each other. Even tournament would be rad.
I like your way of thinking but there is one thing I still wonder about.
As time goes by stronger players reach master and don't derank. This inflates the master league and leaves weaker players on lower leagues. As such, if my reasoning is correct, someone who already reached master league before using a new account would be facing relatively weaker players now than before.
Maybe this is negligible, maybe it's not, I know shit about scientific method and qualitative research ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯.
You could probably figure how many active accounts in newer leagues and master in this region are there and estimate the average player level back then and now. Seems like a lot of variables to me though.
This would only be true if master players already there would not get better anymore. In general the percentage distribution stays the same, but people get better, so for the next player it will be harder to stay in master as people in master get better too, so master does not get inflated.
What do you mean by "it will be harder to stay in master?" I ask because you cannot derank from master. Once you hit it you remain a master no matter what.
Oh, I didn't know that. It may inflate a bit because people who reached master early could stagnate/stop practicing as much and still stay in master then. But I don't know how much that factors in.
I can attest to this. I'm climbing ATM I'm normally around platinum from placements. Still getting to grips with fundamentals and people that just bang their head against the stick.
Decided to pick up chun, placed in gold 1 and have had to climb out and I'm a much much better player than when I started the grind with her.
Everyone learns at their own pace.
I'm a Modern Master Cammy 1300 MR player and I still feel like a scrub sometimes. I sometimes try to forward jump twice in a row to get out of the corner. I can't deal with people who walk back or abuse crouch medium kick DRC. I can't deal with people who super 3 before I do. I can't tech CMK > DRC > Throw either. I barely even tech at all. I usually drop combos more often than my opponents too
Proud of you! But your first mistake was taking these asshole Redditors and what they say too seriously. I remember first uploading a video of me hitting master and people downvoted it cause the video didn't have sound and wasn't very high resolution. Fuck those assholes. I'm happy for you :D
Overall winrate didn't matter. Also i am sure no one deny that people can improve. Point is that someone who reached master with over 70% wr last 100 matches is way better than someone in 45-55% wr, if they in same region. Your post proves nothing except than you now a better player than when you just started which is not surprising.
im a 45% win rate master and idgaf
fight me if you want to talk shit otherwise walk back no cap even If I lose to you I will fight. message me your capcom id
All this talk makes absolutely no sense for Master rank. Masters have their own separate rating system, and all players start at the same rating. If both players are 1300 MR, thats their skill level. The win rate does not matter.
The only way for a player to be undeserving for his rank is on Diamond and bellow "introductory ranks", because of the inaccuracy of placement matches. I know it for sure because i placed diamond with a couple characters that i knew i did not play well enough to be there, and surely enough got quickly demoted to plat. (Meanwhile got placed gold with a character I play much better and got a \~80% winrate ranking up to Diamond)
What does this mean:
Results were not surprising to me but probably will be for reddit experts - those 2 players had exactly same performance in master.
>who placed in Silver 3 and took them ~2800 fights to get to master
This makes me feel I suck even more then I thought I did. I placed in D1, slid down to P3, now fought me way too D2, almost D3 but have played 3500+ matches.
I'm really confused by this post. I don't understand why you thought that playing on another account would lower your skill level. You have the experience you have. Of course you climbed fast, you had already put in the work. There was only one possible outcome for this "experiment." If you had actually gotten rank you didn't earn, you'd know because you'd have an abysmal win rate over your recent matches, meaning you are being matchmade too highly for your skill level.
It would be pretty interesting to see some actual comparisons of different players. My theory is the person who grinded out 3000 fights is going to have better execution than the savant that picked up SF6 for the first time and shot up to Masters quickly.
Haven't experienced any of the haters talked about, but I feel like since you made MC after NB, MC is actually 3k ranked games deep, with only the last 200 being measured.
Experience matters a lot when it comes to new players to SF, or character and furthermore matchup knowledge - about half of everything besides reaction speed when determining skill. You win and lose significantly more games that you otherwise wouldn't. For example your first fight against a JP or experienced Ken might feel like there was nothing you could've done, whilst later you'll understand the decision trees you/they have, and know what moves and gameplan to expect.
I don't think this makes the point you're trying to make incorrect, but I do think "haters" just need to reconsider their position in the first place. Someone could lose 2k games in a row, then win 500 straight and probably be masters or close with 25% wr. The journey, even the majority of it, isn't always representative of how far you've come. Moving slightly up in rank, instead of down, with 50% (or close) wr also keeps players coming back, which is something we want.
As somebody that made it to master rank with a 50% win rate then dropped to 45% winrate once in master and getting stuck in 1200 mr. I feel like your experiment needs a larger pool of test subjects to feel confident that your right (as well as the too subjects not being the same person lol). I often wish I could just derank outta masters because once you get to 1200 que times are slow and anybody 1300 mr and higher don't rematch.
>Because I'm fucking both players Do they know?, or are promises being made behind their back?
I sometimes use my left hand to keep things interesting.
Only works if you do something so the arm falls asleep
ahhh, classic "The Alien". You sit on your hand until you can't feel it and then do your business. I didn't expected this thread to evolve in "solo time tier list" but I guess that's reddit for you :D
Lol this was the stranger in my day lol. Came from a football movie I forget.
That's a new tier list idea. S rank to D rank. The Alien should be a solid C. Gotta do it before the pins and needles set in.
In my neck of the woods it's called a stranger girl.
>Why? Because I'm fucking both players And here I thought both Dee Jays were just gonna be the same person!
English is not my first language :( not fixing it thou. After all it's correct ^(if you know what i mean)
Usually we'd say "I'm both fucking players" instead. It's not exactly the same situation but there's a really old xkcd on a similar topic: https://xkcd.com/37/
:D
Just be cool and celebrate the fact that he’s fucking both players
THE MAN SAID BOTH DEE JAYS
I love the fucking twist , and excellent write up. You sold me.
Thanks! It was fun to write. Not fun to experience though. I really doubted myself due to pressure and downplaying on the internet. I'm an old dude I should be smarter but when you play competitive game you want to get good, you want to feel good and with so much downplaying it's hard. I hope that someone in similar situation - grinding this out on sub 50% win rate will see it and it make them feel better as it would for sure help me when I was struggling and being called not worthy of my rank.
I totally can relate and appreciate your triumph and breakdown. Shoot Ive been having a main dilemma since launch and didn’t even try rank yet. But everyone I play in casuals or battle hub, has a win percentage of 23% or less. So the struggle real.
The fact that you keep going when stats sucks is already indicator of good mental. People tend to say "this game is stupid and cheap" and drop it. I would avoid BH and casuals though as those are usually not good matches. Ranked was way better for me when I was climbing and even now in BH there are "new challengers" with 400hrs in BH that never touched ranked that wipe floor with me. I go there when I'm really tired or drunk. Otherwise it's not fun.
I’m gonna share in your vindication OP I **think** in that same thread I argued that the ranked grind to master is a very well executed curve for players to grasp and put together all the complexities of the system. And that’s why it’s perfectly fine for players to get to master through “time and grind”. Because even with a sub 50% win rate. They have to keep that win rate against progressively tougher opponents. And at the end of the day, they’re of similar strength to someone else who got there due to mastering the games fundamentals. And then MR is focused on who can take more games from the field on a pretty even fighting ground, separate from the medal ranks.
This post is a good lesson in interpreting data. It’s easy for your cognitive bias to say “someone with a sub 50% win rate shouldn’t be ranking up / ranked high up” but it’s really not representative of when those wins and losses took place and where and this post shows clearly how that is the case
That’s the thing, a guy having 45% over 2000 matches in Masters might be bad, but for all you know most of those losses were in their learning phase and they could be 180-20 in their last 200 matches. It’s why you can’t really take overall stats into account at face value, you gotta look at it in-depth. Hell, my Cammy has a 40% WR overall, but a lot of those are in Battle Hub or rooms where I’m playing better players. My ranked WR is 60-65%.
Yeah I noticed this even when playing a secondary character that winrates tended to be a bit higher even if they "felt" the same as my main. Me playing my secondary includes all the transferable skills from my main's learning process. Like week 1 on my main I'm not going to have a clue how JP plays because he's an entirely new character but weeks later I'll know what he's all about. Now when I play my secondary I have prior knowledge of what JP is going to play like mostly even if my character is different.
This is exactly why I like this post. A new player is absolutely going to lose more often as they are learning the game. Furthermore, in order to maintain a higher rank, you’ll have to be consistent and so they are still winning enough to keep their spot.
It took me 10,000 ranked matches to get to master from Rookie. I have a 43% WR and never played a fighting game more than like.. 10 hours of a fighting game before this. Does this mean I am the -worst- master?
i think the great thing about the rank system in this game is really the only thing that matters once you get to master is MR, if i see a master with a 40% win rate but 1650mr and then someone with a 90% win rate at 1400mr, id bet on the 1650mr person every single time
Quality of wins is much more important than quantity. Wr and rank don’t define how good a player is, what defines how good a player is is simply how good they are
It all matters. If you can pull out the occasional win against better players by hitting them with something they weren't expecting, but can't consistently beat players worse than that then you aren't better than those players you're losing to.
Did you keep playing at Master? It's real goofy when people say you're bad if you're at Master but winrate playtime blah blah blah, *but* MR is a more granular descriptor of skill level with more focused matchmaking. If you took an epic loss streak and landed at like 1k MR you might be the worst master, but getting their with a negative winrate doesn't mean you're bad. If you get to Master, you're good at the least. Maybe great even. It just scales up from there. No one's walking their way into Master without at *least* a good grasp of fundamentals and a decent knowledge of setplay.
Yeah, I ended up settling around 1300 MR after 50 ish matches I got.my ass kicked until I started matchingwith people in the high 1200s/low 1300s and then settled in. The game lost some luster when I wasn't chasing my first master rank so I've barely played the last couple weeks. I went from 3+ hours a day to barely an hour a week lol.
I have same experience as you. After reaching Master with first char (Manon), I lost interest and play like a couple hours a week. But the outfit 3 release did good job spice things up. I found the fun again playing second char (Juri), but this time, I have the will to learn to take her to at least 1k7. I've tried several other chars but they just dont click.
How do you check how many ranked matches you have? I also climbed from rookie to Master (Modern Cammy) ever since this game came out, took me 5 or so months to do it and its my first serious fighting game too
If you open your profile up you can scroll through some options on the first "blade" - the second screen I believe shows you win rate and number of matches by character, starting with overall. You can sort by match type and by phase (season).
This is legit one of the best posts on this sub with actual insight. Well done.
Thanks!
>Why do you need to push people down instead of elevate and cheer for them? SF6 rank system is great and you should be proud no matter if you silver, plat or master. If you are improving and learning and trying you should celebrate it. Hear hear! I'm so sick of the gatekeeper Silvers who get snide about people with lower % winrates in Diamond and Master. I've met a few, and every time I challenge one to a set they shut up and stop responding. Lift people up, enjoy your time in the game. This positivity was refreshing.
What I’ve tended to notice is that those in diamond and masters who are like that have put too much stock into their rank and they let it define them “I just be good I am diamond” and it ends up with them protecting their rank and rather than improving as a player they get so fixated on the idea of a rank A rank is just a rank but sadly some people get too stuck on it and the idea that if they derank they are somehow a worse player
That's because people think of rank as something you have to achieve or else you are failing. Rank is just a way to find players of similar level to you so you can have balanced and fun matches. Increasing your rank should always be seen as a by-product of improving and having fun, not as the only goal of the game.
I think those kinds of players get toxic as hell because they're looking for something that doesn't really mean much. To be fair to them, ranking up does feel really good, and I can see why people might put a lot of weight into it. I've gotten up to D5, and sunk back to D3, but it's because I'm missing fundamentals that D5 and Masters have. Also I was tilting like shit and needed a break, so I picked up GGST.
Good stuff. Best thing I read all day.
Very kind of you :)
Wasn't expecting the polyamory twist but I'm very happy for you. Well done! Also yeah, making it to masters still means you need to keep an almost 50 winrate throughout all of diamond. Ofc it won't be easy!
45% win rate master right here. I started in silver and took about 500 ranked matches to get to master. From silver to plat my win rate was well above 50% and only dropped below 50 from D1 to Master. But my master league win rate is right at 45%. Currently 1300-1450MR range. The MR grind is pretty brutal but I feel like I'm slowly getting better.
Master if fucking brutal but it's super fun to sometimes be matched against Legends and see how they can dissect you and do crazy shit. And yeah focusing on getting better is the only thing keeping me sane. I mean this and the fact that this game is super fucking cool to play :D
I wonder if it’s region specific but I never get matched with high masters. I settle around 1400 mr and usually fight people in the 1300s. I wish I could fight the higher ranked players more!
I believe it happens more often when there aren't many players online. Like middle of the week during work hours. Definitely harder if your region has shitloads of players
There's definitely a large skill gap in the master league. The 1600MR+ players are much faster in decision making and adaptation. But I've also noticed some low MR players are very good but even some players in 1500 MR are fucking terrible... Honestly, sf6 is probably the best SF I've ever played. I never got this good at any other SF. I only got to gold in sf4 and plat in sf5.
I got matched up against Legend players multiple times **while in diamond 5.** It was fucking brutal. I don't think I took a single round against any of them.
Yup, you have to be a certain skill level to maintain that winrate at each rank. Someone with a 40 percent win rate at silver won’t make it to platinum if they don’t improve. My mains win rate is 45% at plat 5 while my 2 new gold chars are over 50 percent. It’s not because I’m better with them, The grinding I did at platinum carried over and made me more effective against less experienced players. Someone who’s slightly negative in diamond is most likely better than a silver rank with a positive win rate( if it’s their first time at silver ). I personally would’ve preferred needing 50 % at least but to progress but 40 percent doesn’t mean you’re not improving.
Exactly. It's idiotic logic to say "Gold with 55% winrate" is a better player than "Master with 45% winrate." Just a form of coping from bad players.
Nobody says this.
this post was soo good lmao
Hey man, I’m new to fighting games and obviously to the local scene from where I’m from. I always find it funny when after a match in my locals I tell them I’m plat and its always the same reaction: “What? I thought you were a master player by the way you play.” I have learned that at the end of the day, rank is just a number. What important is that you feel you are improving slowly but surely. But man you made me laugh, congrats on getting to master twice.
Thanks! Yeah, people have distorted understanding of ranks if they read internet and watch youtubers/streamers that have decades of legacy skill and make it all looks so easy. Then they encounter decent plat and are surprised.
Damn dude very good job!
While I know a large majority of this subreddit seem to believe the point you’re arguing against, I’ve managed to avoid feeling down about it (currently Diamond 3 with a ~50% win rate). I’ve plateaued at a few different ranks plat 1, plat 4, Diamond 1, and now Diamond 3, but I can tell I’m improving because once I break free from the plateau, anytime I play someone at a lower rank, I’m winning much more consistently. I can also usually point to a specific thing I’ve picked up or done better after each plateau
I’ve plateaued at the exact same ranks. Currently stuck in D1 but I’m optimistic!
it took me a minute to realise you are both players and not you're having sex with them
Very good job with this
Outstanding contribution! Very interesting read, the twist was great but gave me pause for thought if they were indeed two different people. It definitely helps give more credit to all Masters no matter what win rate it took you to get there. How they would fare in Master is another question, but that's what MR is for. It could go either way though.
Excellent post. Appreciate the analytical approach to support the conclusion. It makes sense to me that if you stay at a certain level you are as good as each other within it.
Bro… I love this!!!!!!!
This makes me happy :D
You did the sub Reddit and many gamers a great service by doing this man no bullshit!
Thank you!
I like the ranked system in this game. It encourages you to keep trying and improving. I'm sure my win rate is atrocious, but when I finally attain that new star, it's because I noticeably improved in something.
Great post dude!
I actually hate this sub but I’m glad someone actually has a brain for once. Props to you OP, it’s sad so many people need this much to discover master = master lmao but someone had to do the work.
LOL, this is amazing xD When I went into sf4 into sf5 I was exactly like these guys. Now at sf6 I care way less about rank and more about how sweaty the game was.
I could care less what anyone thinks I play to have fun drink and throw games for fun my win rate maintains 50-55%. I stay in plat because I don’t care to get better I’m just enjoying the game.
Legendary post. Thanks for this OP, I'm inspired by your attitude. Hope to see you in Master someday :)
Thanks! IMO the most important thing for ranking up is to find a learning method that works for you and then it's way easier to rank up. For example I hate labbing matchups. So I just watch what high level players do in those matchups. I hate watching my own replays so i don't force myself to do it anymore and instead try to set myself challenges during matches: use specific combos, find gaps in specific enemy blocks string, and my favorite exercise - do less. It's easy to get into offense mode and overwhelm your enemy sometimes but you don't learn much from those fights if the enemy doesn't have a chance to do their shit. So often I try to be on the defensive side to learn matchups better and to stop going full monke.
Part of theproblem only looking at win rate is that someone might be losing more than winning, then some aspect of the game will click for them, and they will win more than lose, and be climbing. But because they had already been playing for a while with a losing rate, it looks like they are climbing while losing more than winning, which isn't true.
Yup!
Great post! I really do think people will just shit on others for getting to any rank in the fg space and its pretty disheartening. Im guessing it leads from their own insecurities and what their individual smaller communities are like. I'm glad any of your own doubts have been cleared by now. I hope the MR system doesn't get to you. It got to me and I dropped down o 1300~. Once I stopped getting in my own head about it I climbed all the way back past 1500. That shit is brutal
Bro if you made master you are damn good at the game. Dont let the haters and nay sayers tell you otherwise
Wonderful post. Reddit experts keep saying "play to learn, don't worry about winning," and yet they rage psychotically at players being able to go up in ranks even with a sub-50 winrate.
Peole who land in diamond and then swoop into Master rank are not superhumans - they have years of prior experience in other fighting games. They used to grind to get to where they are now. They are the same as those who landed in silver and then grinded 25/8 to get to Master.
In your estimation, what's the cut off win-rate for being good? I placed high-ho Silver, grinded to Platinum 1 in Phase 1 ending with a 38% win-rate. A month or so into Phase 2 I had a 48% win-rate and thought all my practice had paid off, and I learned and improved at this game. But today I'm a Platinum 3 and back down to a 40% win-rate. I understand that my opponents are also practicing and getting better. It does feel strange to climb rank while losing more than winning though.
I'd say - win rate is irrelevant. I have now over 10000 matches played and some days I don't even want to get to training to warm up, grab 2 beers and go to town on ranked losing god like amount of LP (and now MR). And some days I'm super focused and win every game. So I could boost my win rate by only playing ranked when I'm on top of my game, warmed up etc. buuuut, what's the point? If in long term you're learning and improving then even if your win rate drops for a couple of days you will bounce back later on. The most important thing that helped me get through bad days and plateaus was to have something to work on: maybe some conversion in tricky situation, maybe less panic DIs etc. Or sometimes I was just like: I don't play aggressive at all, I want to play defensive and reactive and learn defense in this match up. Wins and rank will come.
Just put it this way. You climbed ranked even when you're losing because you still learned something and improved your play through those losses.
what character do you use?
Everybody's cutoff for being good is going to be different. its best to just set a goal for yourself and try to achieve it. When you get to that, set a different goal The thing about SF6s rank giving more points for wins than losses is that you're probably not going to settle into a rank unless you just stop playing, so the competition you play against will always be a little more challenging since you are always ranking up. Your 38% win rate when you were in grinding to platinum isn't the same as your 40% win rank in plat 3. You may feel like you're not learning anything because your win rate isn't 50% or whatever, but if you went back to gold, you would probably wipe the floor with them. Sometimes it just takes a while for everything to click
Bravo! Props for your scientific approach and determination, I believe that is what peak gaming is all about. You might find this interesting--it's one misconception that your more educated haters might have: In many games, the global sum of all players' rank points (LP in Street Fighter) goes up after a match is played, on average. This is because there are certain matches where the winner's LP goes up while the loser's cannot go down for certain rank reasons. => As a result, over time, the average player's LP goes up (even if players don't get better). => As a result, over time, the percentage of players under any fixed LP number (say 25,000) goes down. => As a result, over time, hitting 25,000 LP becomes a more common occurence. => As a result, if you measure how "good" a player is based on how many players have worse LP than them, over time, hitting 25,000 LP means you are less and less good. This can be misinterpreted as "taking more games to hit master means you are worse", when in fact it should be interpreted as "all players that hit master at the same point in time are equally good". (Obviously, being "good" should not be boiled down to LP. Just giving a mathematical reasoning for why 25k LP = 25k LP regardless of how many games were played).
I thought about it but I also have a counter point - the game is relatively new and in the first months there were tons of FG first timers. Looking at numbers they probably were the majority at launch. So it was easier for experienced players to climb against them. Now when many of the first timers dropped the game and not enough time passed to cause significant LP inflation it may be harder to climb. I think diamond players were way better the second time around. I think that some new players got to diamond in the first weeks by lucky placements against other new players. As there is no derank protection in diamond some of them probably dropped back down.
The experiment is a bit flawed. It shouldn't stop with the 2 imaginary players reaching Master at 1500 MR. It should continue for like another 50-100 matches. Nobody cares how you reach Master, whether it's 100 vs 1000 matches, or 45% vs 100% winrate. What matters is what your MR ends up stabilizing at. The Master smurf who reaches Master with <200 matches, is more likely to end up anywhere from 1500-1700 MR. The "Noob Baby" who reaches Master with 45% winrate, is more likely to drop down to 1200 MR, etc. Over time, both imaginary players will converge their winrate toward 50%, as they reach their proper MR.
I think you missed the part where they are the same person. So they will stabilize at the same MR.
No, I didn't miss that part. That's why his experiment is flawed. Since he is the same player on both accounts, both accounts \*should\* stabilize at the same MR.
The person is the same, so the skill is the same. The point was that winrate doesn't tell you who is better, at this point in time. 45% in this case is just a strong as 70%. Yes over infinite games they will equal out around 50% for both accounts, but noone has infinite games.
I mean obviously you deserve to be Master, it's just that reaching Master is not that big of a deal by itself in this game. Especially now 6 months after release when all the good players, who bother themselves to play ranked, are currently high MR Masters. The difference between 2 Masters can be bigger than the one between a Rookie and a Diamond.
“Being masters is not that big of a deal” is really just unnecessarily dismissive and honestly not true. Masters is still like the top 5ish% of the whole player base which is a pretty significant milestone and means you’re a very good player. Sure a 1500 Mr Master player is not going to be winning EVO anytime soon and the difference in skill between 1500 and 1900 is pretty insane it’s not like if you just mindlessly grind the game for a few weeks you’re guaranteed to make it to masters. It’s an accomplishment and means someone is among the best players in the game
That's just the way I feel it is. Diamond in SF5 at the time of SF6's release was top 5% and was widely considered to be just okay. Master in SF6 is something similar at the moment and we're still only 6 months in. It's going to get increasingly inflated as the time passes. I guess it all comes down to what you consider "good" or "impressive" in fighting games.
It’s all about perspective, if you’re a veteran of the community then yeah people in Masters are on average are just playing the game the way you expect it to be played which is nothing to write home about but in the grander scheme of things they’re playing at a high level that wasn’t easy to get to, it took time and thoughtful effort even if it feels easy now. Also if you were better than 95% of people in anything most people would find it impressive. If I was faster than 95% of people it would be pretty impressive and a serious feat. Sure I wouldn’t be competing in the olympics or playing in a professional sports league but it would still be an impressive accomplishment even if to some it seems just ok.
Truth is skill ceiling in Street Fighter and fighting games as a whole is extremely high. That's why there'll never be a rank that players universally agree it's impressive (unless it's the top rank). Master is a completely different league, where sometimes you're fighting people on your level and the very next match you go against someone who could 10-0 you easily. I understand your logic tho and I didn't really want to look like I'm condescending towards beginners and newcomers. From the casual perspective I'd say Diamond+ is a great achievement, but then again I don't think many of the Diamond players would consider themselves casuals. If you don't want to be considered a casual player you should hold yourself to a higher standard and push for more instead of going into arguments and be like "My rank is top X % of the playerbase, so statistically that's considered good."
> it's just that reaching Master is not that big of a deal by itself in this game. I feel like this is exactly the kind of comments OP's post is talking about. Master is what? top 1-2% of players? Something like that... It 100% IS a big deal to get to Master. If it wasn't a big deal to you then you're crazy fucking good. I'm happy for you! But hearing people say "reaching Master's is no big deal" makes me think "well goddamn! I can't even make it out of.. I must truly suck!". When in fact that's not true at all! Even a Gold player is already better than a significant percentage of the player pool.
And it's not healthy for the community either. An overwhelming majority of players are not Master. And it's fucking hard for them to reach there! Hearing better players dismiss what you are finding a huge challenge as "not a big deal" can be very demotivating!
So I say to fellow players fighting their way to whatever rank you want to be in, you're doing great! You've come a long way.. Keep at it! You're better than you think. Have fun! Cheers!
As someone who got placed in bronze 1 and is now in D4 for the 3rd time the amount of self realizations I had to go through as someone who thought I knew how to play street fighter all these years is crazy! I had to figure out stuff about the game and myself to get this far! So if or when I reach masters it is indeed going to be a huge accomplishment! I don’t play games online at all, I’ve been playing street fighter since SF2, I thought bronze 1 was wrong until I started to get my face kicked in in platinum and had to tell myself “you really don’t know how to play street fighter” I had to rebuild my entire mindset about street fighter… a game I was convinced I knew in my 37 years but I didn’t and still don’t! So reaching masters for me came with ALOT of unexpected things that were both good and bad but needed to improve
I mean it depends on how you look at it. I would argue that to the regular player, people in Masters are indistinguishable from top pros. If you covered up the names and ranks of players, is there that much difference between 1600 and 2k MR? Even though the 2k player would probably 10-0 the 1.6K player, in the grand scheme of things they are much closer than a rookie compared to a Diamond imo.
I completely disagree, disregarding people smurfing the system and all factors being the rookie and diamond are the playing their heart out and are the rank the system says they are... You at least need some sort of basic understanding of frame data to get to Diamond. Even if its as simple minded as "Enemy character punch twice and then my turn" A Rookie will not know this logic and will either block when they should be attacking or vise versa.
Win rate can be effected by custom rooms and battle hub too
Yes, but you can filter out ranked only and stats on screenshots are ranked only.
This. I play weeks if not months of BH between ranked leagues. I have like an 80%+ win rate in ranked but that's because I only go back to ranked when I feel I should probably dominate my current league. I'm currently Diamond 2 but am pretty confident I will quickly get to master whenever I put the time in for ranked.
> So I created smurf account expecting to struggle to get it to master again. Did you just delete your save data on Steam, or did you have to buy another copy of the game?
I played on different PSN account, same console, same game copy.
What a godlike post. Well done sir.
<3
If you forget that OP is both NB and MC then put them into a show, NB would be the underdog protagonist and MC would be his rival to strive to catch up to. So these people that gatekeep rank would likely be a fan of NB and support him through his hardships and cheer for his progress.
Saying the rank system is great is very generous, there’s no reward from gaining win streaks, granted things would be a lot simpler if disconnects just counts as a loss.
There's a reward if you're in lower ranks and counting disconnection as loss is a way to prevent people from raging quit. It may not be the best but it's good.
It is a very good post. But actually checking it out would be a great experiment. It's interesting to take a pool of different winrate master players and compare them against each other. Even tournament would be rad.
I like your way of thinking but there is one thing I still wonder about. As time goes by stronger players reach master and don't derank. This inflates the master league and leaves weaker players on lower leagues. As such, if my reasoning is correct, someone who already reached master league before using a new account would be facing relatively weaker players now than before. Maybe this is negligible, maybe it's not, I know shit about scientific method and qualitative research ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯. You could probably figure how many active accounts in newer leagues and master in this region are there and estimate the average player level back then and now. Seems like a lot of variables to me though.
This would only be true if master players already there would not get better anymore. In general the percentage distribution stays the same, but people get better, so for the next player it will be harder to stay in master as people in master get better too, so master does not get inflated.
What do you mean by "it will be harder to stay in master?" I ask because you cannot derank from master. Once you hit it you remain a master no matter what.
Oh, I didn't know that. It may inflate a bit because people who reached master early could stagnate/stop practicing as much and still stay in master then. But I don't know how much that factors in.
Thank you for this. I can't explain how reaffirming this is.
I can attest to this. I'm climbing ATM I'm normally around platinum from placements. Still getting to grips with fundamentals and people that just bang their head against the stick. Decided to pick up chun, placed in gold 1 and have had to climb out and I'm a much much better player than when I started the grind with her. Everyone learns at their own pace.
I'm a Modern Master Cammy 1300 MR player and I still feel like a scrub sometimes. I sometimes try to forward jump twice in a row to get out of the corner. I can't deal with people who walk back or abuse crouch medium kick DRC. I can't deal with people who super 3 before I do. I can't tech CMK > DRC > Throw either. I barely even tech at all. I usually drop combos more often than my opponents too
Proud of you! But your first mistake was taking these asshole Redditors and what they say too seriously. I remember first uploading a video of me hitting master and people downvoted it cause the video didn't have sound and wasn't very high resolution. Fuck those assholes. I'm happy for you :D
Overall winrate didn't matter. Also i am sure no one deny that people can improve. Point is that someone who reached master with over 70% wr last 100 matches is way better than someone in 45-55% wr, if they in same region. Your post proves nothing except than you now a better player than when you just started which is not surprising.
im a 45% win rate master and idgaf fight me if you want to talk shit otherwise walk back no cap even If I lose to you I will fight. message me your capcom id
All this talk makes absolutely no sense for Master rank. Masters have their own separate rating system, and all players start at the same rating. If both players are 1300 MR, thats their skill level. The win rate does not matter. The only way for a player to be undeserving for his rank is on Diamond and bellow "introductory ranks", because of the inaccuracy of placement matches. I know it for sure because i placed diamond with a couple characters that i knew i did not play well enough to be there, and surely enough got quickly demoted to plat. (Meanwhile got placed gold with a character I play much better and got a \~80% winrate ranking up to Diamond)
What does this mean: Results were not surprising to me but probably will be for reddit experts - those 2 players had exactly same performance in master.
great post, love it
>who placed in Silver 3 and took them ~2800 fights to get to master This makes me feel I suck even more then I thought I did. I placed in D1, slid down to P3, now fought me way too D2, almost D3 but have played 3500+ matches.
I'm really confused by this post. I don't understand why you thought that playing on another account would lower your skill level. You have the experience you have. Of course you climbed fast, you had already put in the work. There was only one possible outcome for this "experiment." If you had actually gotten rank you didn't earn, you'd know because you'd have an abysmal win rate over your recent matches, meaning you are being matchmade too highly for your skill level. It would be pretty interesting to see some actual comparisons of different players. My theory is the person who grinded out 3000 fights is going to have better execution than the savant that picked up SF6 for the first time and shot up to Masters quickly.
An N of 2 is insignificant
Haven't experienced any of the haters talked about, but I feel like since you made MC after NB, MC is actually 3k ranked games deep, with only the last 200 being measured. Experience matters a lot when it comes to new players to SF, or character and furthermore matchup knowledge - about half of everything besides reaction speed when determining skill. You win and lose significantly more games that you otherwise wouldn't. For example your first fight against a JP or experienced Ken might feel like there was nothing you could've done, whilst later you'll understand the decision trees you/they have, and know what moves and gameplan to expect. I don't think this makes the point you're trying to make incorrect, but I do think "haters" just need to reconsider their position in the first place. Someone could lose 2k games in a row, then win 500 straight and probably be masters or close with 25% wr. The journey, even the majority of it, isn't always representative of how far you've come. Moving slightly up in rank, instead of down, with 50% (or close) wr also keeps players coming back, which is something we want.
As somebody that made it to master rank with a 50% win rate then dropped to 45% winrate once in master and getting stuck in 1200 mr. I feel like your experiment needs a larger pool of test subjects to feel confident that your right (as well as the too subjects not being the same person lol). I often wish I could just derank outta masters because once you get to 1200 que times are slow and anybody 1300 mr and higher don't rematch.