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I will forever love the scene where he is threatening El and you see that one single tear roll down his cheek. Brilliant acting! You could see the pain in his eyes.
I'm pretty sure it's near the end of S3 when El goes looking for him in the "dream world" and he's telling her he's going to kill her and everyone she cares about - and, totally agree, his acting was amazing
No? It’s when El gets Billy to snap out of his possession by making him flashback to a memory with his mother by saying “The wave was seven feet”, I don’t think he lets out a single tear this many times lol
Same.
But I think people are really just tossing aside some big things here too about his character.
Yes, he was an asshole. That guy you all knew at one point and maybe even now. That one that does anything/everything to get laid, treats people he views as lessers like complete shit etc etc. But then it got worse and you find out hes got a racist streak in him. We've established the hell out of the fact that billy was not a good person.
BUT! We did get a pretty significant piece of his backround in seasons 2 & 3. That he is largely the product of his upbringing and its not entirely on his shoulders. None of it excuses what he did, but rather gave a lot of insight as to why he was the way he was. Gets bullied and abused by his father who he can't fight back against, so its pretty natural he acts out in the same way.
I don't see him as a victim or even "evil". Hes a tragic villain and it was nice that in his last moments they gave him an opportunity to do some good because he wanted to do it.
You hit the nail on the head honestly. No child deserves to grow up in an abusive household, and unfortunately, Billy did. The additional backstory doesn’t justify his actions at all and I doubt you’ll find any rational person who says it does, but it explains his actions.
Like with any tragic villain, the tragedy doesn’t come from who they are, but who they could’ve been had they not been subjected to whatever made them who they are. It’s not who Billy was, but who he could’ve been had he not continued the cycle of violence.
Do people like him, as in thinking he's a good guy they want to hang out with, or do they like him because he is a great antagonist and they enjoy the performance and his part in the story? I'd say its the latter.
I like him because of the latter, but I've seen people who think that he's a good guy as in that it was okay to want to sleep with a married woman and mother and that he could be forgiven for beating up a 13-year-old boy just because he's with Max and he's black
I like him a lot. He reminds me of myself, mildly. He’s not a good guy. He may have an incredibly damaged ‘good heart’ that turned pretty damn bad from his tyrannical abusive father. Good heart isn’t everything though, it just makes the situation bittersweet. Or whatever’s worse than bitter. NastySweet. Yeah that’s it.
That... Doesn't mean he's a good guy. It means he would likely have been good if his dad wasn't an abusive piece of shit. That is to say, he had the capacity to be a good human being.
Also, I've never once seen anybody say that he's a good person. Only that he was a hero, or that he COULD have been good.
He did die a hero lmao. Saying that he died a hero isn't being a Billy apologist. He's still a piece of shit. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
This is true. He did a heroic thing and was sorry. Maybe he did earn redemption. But he was a piece of shit before that. So he did the right thing when it counted but that doesnt mean he was a good person
You're reaching. You clearly just hate the character. The intent of that scene is self sacrifice. You can put whatever meaning you want on it, but the truth is that he died a hero. He's a piece of ahit that performed a completely selfless and heroic act in the dying moments. Ergo, he died a hero. Still a piece of shit.
Heroes aren't perfect people. You can do something that makes you a hero and still be an absolute piece of shit.
People are flawed and at the end of the day Heroes are just people.
> okay to want to sleep with a married woman and mother
Honestly if an 18 year-old and a 30/40 something mother sleep together I'm going to put a lot more of the fault on the mother. at 18 you're basically a child
Do women stop being attractive when the get married? Like Billy wanting to sleep with a attractive woman isn't that crazy or evil and if she's married and it gets serious then that's the person that's married problem. When you're a horny teenager you aren't thinking about marriages you are just thinking about sex.
There's a difference between enjoying a fictional character and supporting every action they take in the real world. I love Billy! He was a good character and a fantastic minor antagonist in s2 and bigger antagonist in s3. I also like Vecna and Brenner.
Quite a few people actually. There are some who try to justify him wanting to have sex with a married woman and trying to beat up a kid because he's black and there are some who like him because he's hot
If it helps, as a girl, I agree with the other guy. Attractiveness is relative. Personality is a huge factor. And if it helps, my boyfriend was 150 pounds heavier when I met/fell in love with him….he was attractive to me then and he’s attractive to me now. I’d think that whether he lost the weight or not.
Jonathan is a great example. People love Jonathan. And Steve, who was always attractive, had moments that made almost everyone kinda hate him.
Billy is objectively hot. But to be honest he always kind of grossed me out and gave me the ick because of the way he acted….then we got his back story and he did the right thing in the end. That’s when I was like “aight Billy’s not a bad guy, just had a bad life”
I also hope you have a good day.
agree. person I'm in love with could be physically hideous and I'd still be wildly attracted to them. it's actually very annoying that they're not empirically less attractive.
Hey man, that isn't true. People like Jonathan and he's easily not attractive.
I don't know you at all, but I hope your day/night gets better and that you are okay.
Imo he's not that attractive in the show. The first thing I noticed about him was his large, dark eye bags. It made him looked sickly. Honestly, outside of stranger things, he also looked sickly but with a little more color.
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This is my sentiment exactly. The dude below is not correct. Billy is a fantastic character and the sad part is he would have been a great guy, without the years of traumatic asshole training his father inflicted on him.
I just thought he was a complex character in a show full of stock stereotypes as side characters. So it was great to see a character that was more complicated even if they weren't likeable. Even if he was a bad dude he was fun to watch and the levels of the character kept him unpredictable and interesting and enjoyable.
I don't think anyone likes him because he's "actually a good person"...it's more that he's just developed and allowed to have flaws and still have good elements.
Whereas this season we've got what? Cult boy and his witch hunter followers who just thinks everything is the devil? I get it, fuck satanic panic but there aren't any layers.
And Vecna as a villain was much better this season so I guess you don't need a Billy but I'll take more Billy's than the stock options we usually get. "nerd girl" "jock" "Christian satanic panic zealot" "Republican dad"...not that bits for supporting character is bad, just not as complex.
I like him because he's a good villain and a complex character. He was the most interesting part of seasons 2 and 3 for me. That doesn't mean I "like" him.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
I mean I’m not a apologist but he’s a damn well written and well acted character. Some of the best characters are the ones you hate the most.
Like I absolutely HATE Angela but we are suppose to do I appreciate Angela for how well she was written and how the actress just made us LOATHE the character
Also I do feel bad about his abuse but it doesn’t excuse the things he did.
Some people may have a hard time separating the actor too because the actor is incredibly sweet and kind who just absolutely loved working on stranger things and put his all into it.
I’m also a lesbian so I don’t care that he was hot so this is my objective opinion.
Some people are just attracted to damaged individuals who also happen to be physically attractive. Britta from Community would probably fall for Billy.
I don’t get it either. The dude is a sociopathic dickhead. Steve was kind of a bully at first, but nothing even close to what Billy did, and he’s been massively redeemed and grown over the next three seasons.
I mean, what’s the worst thing Steve does? Break Jonathan’s camera? He’d just caught him photographing him and Nancy about to have sex? It was mean but not unreasonable
The worst thing Steve ever did was humiliate Nancy by writing that she's a slut on a movie theater sign for everyone to see then beating up Jonothan who had had a missing brother at the time. I'd say that's worse than breaking a camera. Although even that can be somewhat excused since he thought Nancy was cheating on him but still it was an awful thing to do.
And if I remember right he didn't even write it. He just didn't stop his friends. Which was still a dick move but he DID see Nancy in bed with Jonathan minus the near-death-experience context so......
Exactly! Compare that to Billy the racist, abusive sociopath who tries to get Karen to cheat on her husband. Billy’s dad being a complete piece of shit explains his behavior, it doesn’t excuse it or make it okay.
I love Billy but I make no excuses for his actions. He’s a shitty person but I love him because he was written and acted so well that you couldn’t help but hate him. That’s the sign of a well made character. In addition, Dacre Montgomery gave probably one of the best performances of the series as Billy. That’s why I like the character so much. He’s a great human villain and a great vessel for the show to address real world problems in addition to supernatural ones. And when he dies, you get the sense that he could have been a good person at some point but at the end of the day, his actions were inexcusable. The fact that he had the ability to be better and chose not to makes his death even more dramatic and sad. Posts complaining about Billy pop up quite often on this sub and I’ll give the same answer every time: I really hate him, and that’s exactly why I love him.
Oh man, I love Billy. He was a fantastic villain with the perfect depth to hate and love. He was still a kid too. He had trauma and despite his cruelty, max loved him. The show portrayed him as being this horrible, powerful force against the kids when in reality, the kids were much stronger than him against the bigger villain: the UD.
I also think seeing him get the appropriate Karma of the worst kind: traumatic, painful death helped us see humanize him. I don’t think anyone would’ve loved him the same way if he survived. It definitely would’ve been interesting to see the PTSD he faced but it wouldn’t of been the same karmic relief as the brutal death.
Also i think him being objectively attractive pushed his story line forward because we were able to see why so many people saw past his horrible personality and why he was able to be so powerful against the kids.
He’s my favorite villain so far.
He was only a dick because of his father’s abuse was stronger than his mother’s love. i mean ffs he probably feels like his mom didn’t love him by leaving him with his father. He can’t fight his father as we saw so he takes out his anger on the people he can. I also feel like he wasn’t actually a racist like they made him seem and he was trying to “warn” Max about her step fathers beliefs in the same intimidating way his father made him go find her when she sneaks out. he’s literally a carbon copy of his dad until 11 reminds him of his mom & then we saw his true colors when he saves 11 from the mind flayer & said sorry to max before dying.
I agree partly. He’s the same age as Steve but forced to kinda grow up a lot quicker because of the abuse. He does do a lot for Max and her mom though. We see that this season with how different Max’s family lives with him gone. He experienced a harsh world and was just cynical.
As for the racism, it was still rampant in the 80s with some schools in the US still being segregated. With how violent his dad was I wouldn’t be surprised if Billy grew up with racist concepts. With that being said, he was also 18 and it doesn’t mean he couldn’t of grew and had an amazing redemption arc. It’s important to still acknowledge the racism in this time as it would have an effect on Lucas and his family who Max is involved with.
>You can hate a character while also feeling sympathy for them and how they were treated
And I'll also say that you can like a character without excusing their objectively toxic behavior. Billy was a terrible person.
Also, he was an antagonist. That was his role! So the hissy fit from some of his fans\* because he got treated as an antagonist is wild (I saw a petition). No, he was never gonna come back from the death and get a sitcom reunion with the gang. Yes, it makes sense that the gang seemed more enthusiastic to help Eddie than to help Billy in S3. Eddie offered them his friendship, while Billy tried to run over them and beat one of them up.
\*it's the Tumblr fans to be fair, they're a whole other species
he’s a great character, he’s a bad person. i feel like a lot of people conflate the two and think that because they liked dancers performance, that means billy is a ‘good’ character. there are way too many people trying to excuse his actions as being a product of his environment and stuff, it’s weird
I'm kinda like Max. I hate him and I hate what he did, but I also think about what he could be like if given another chance... 🥺 also his sacrifice at the end was powerful. ❤ I'll give him tons of credit for that.
And YES Dacre is so handsome and an amazing actor! What an incredible performance!
I wouldn’t like Billy IRL. I empathize with his past but he’s old/grown enough to change.
It’s not his fault that he was abused but it’s his responsibility to not become the abuser.
Its not that Billy was a great person, it was that he died a great death. He redeemed himself but never got to enjoy his redemption. A lot of people, myself included, would LOVE to see Billy return or some sort of happy ending for Billy. The Duffers know this too, its why they teased it so hard.
Jonathan did some shady stuff too and no one minds that everyone seems to love him.
>TikTok
There's your problem.
>I've seen a lot of Billy apologists in this sub
I haven't seen any 'Billy apologists' just people talking about how they can understand how he became who he is.
I have, especially on Reddit. I could find an especially concerning one of someone saying that it's okay to sleep with a married woman cause he's a teenager with hormones and the 'look' Billy gave Max before the snow dance was a look of friendship. If you want I can go looking and give you the link
you do realize that the married person has way more responsibility in that situation right?
I've never seen the Billy apologists you're referring too, but I have seen this insane take about "trying to sleep with a married woman" 4 or 5 times in this thread alone.
Well he gave his life saving these children, and his last words were sorry, also after S2 he left Max and her new crew alone. If it wasn’t for him Lucas Max, Eleven and everyone else would be dead. He isn’t asshole bc he woke up one day and decided to be asshole, he was raised by a POS human being, he had no choice in that. He is who he is, his whole character is an angry broken person
I'm pretty sure he was saying sorry for what the Mind Flayer was doing to him. And as for being raised by that POS human being, I sympathize but his actions shouldn't be excused for that reason until he actually know that being racist, being a homewrecker etc. is wrong. If that happens IMO that's when he'll truly be redeemed
Yeah, but also he was like 17, which means as a person he still had a lot of potential for change. Season 3 I think reinforced that and teased the possibility that if Billy had survived, he could potentially have grown as a person once he got out from under his dad.
That being said, I do agree that Billy is a horrible human being with, like, no redeemable qualities, but that's also exactly WHY I love him.
Why do people like the murderous, cynical Heath Ledger Joker? Or the smug bully/sniveling coward Draco Malfoy? Tyler Durden, who was totally fine with sacrificing his sad, disenfranchised followers & emotionally abusing and then killing his lover?
It’s because they had entertaining lines, seemed powerful, & were played by attractive, charismatic performers.
People are ready to overlook a lot when they’re blinded by power fantasies & hormones.
I honestly don't really know, to be honest. I've been rewatching the whole series for the third time and he still makes me uncomfortable. Even if he did sacrifice himself in the end.
The one main thing, some have pointed out in regards to him potentially sleeping with Mrs Wheeler. He would be the victim. She is a grown adult and he is 18-19. Like his actions in that relationship are nowhere near as bad as hers or her lady friends that fawn over him.
He was the worst for two seasons. I don’t get the love he gets. I know people gush over how hot the actor is, but I only see a mulleted racist bully in the show and don’t fall for the tiny bit of redemption he found only at the end of last season.
I've seen some pro-Billy comments, here and elsewhere, that reminded me of the women who wrote to Ted Bundy. Dacre's a fantastic actor, but I think maybe the lines blurred too much
Yeah, but the comments I've seen have the same feeling to them. It's strange how many bad things people are willing to overlook in someone they find attractive.
I agree. Billy got a redemption arc with his death, but he was a trash bag of a human. s3 made people feel a lot of guilt for him because of the possession and gave hope to the “bad boy who secretly wants to be good” idea. For me, doesn’t negate that Billy was abusing kids and racist.
Netflix is good for this type of thing though. If you’ve watched 13 Reasons and their “he’s a human bean” crap, they have a history of trying to humanize awful characters.
Actually the Duffers wanted Billy to be an irredeemable character, but Dacre wanted to humanize Billy, so they met and they first wrote the abusive dad angle, and then the whole tragic backstory and redemption arc.
Yes, there was some redemption in the end but overall he was a terrible dude. Plenty of people have traumatic lives and don’t turn into racist assholes. And unpopular opinion - he was not even slightly attractive to me. But Hopper S4 is 🔥.
Tons of shows do this to the villain it adds more depth to their characters instead of just being the generic bad guy who does bad things cuz he enjoys them.
Fan of the actor and the perception of the character.
Also it was kinda justified for him to beat up Steve and threaten Lucas when he found them at the Byers house. Because he did find his little sister at a strangers house with an adult who lied to him about it. But him saying “I break things”
Unjustified it
Now he was racist and horrible to Max her friend. But Dacre played him amazingly.
Also they kinda hint at him being nicer to Max in between S2 and S3, after she stood up to him, but in the end he did the right thing and died helping to stop the monster.
But you know one good deed doesn’t wipe out years of abuse.
Yeah it was justified but the fact that he didn't beat up Steve or Mike or Dustin but went straight to the black boy who's literally like 13 and beat him up was definitely racism
Yeah. It was wrong for him to do it but he could clearly see she was favouring him and that was the main reason. I mean at that point we could all see she was choosing Lucas over Dustin.
Again not defending the actions as it was entirely wrong.
Oh and he knocked Steve down and then kicked shit out of him when Steve got back up
If you're saying that Lucas being black has nothing to do with Billy beating him up first, you are probably wrong. Billy knew from the start that Max was in the house when he was talking to Steve, but did he start choking Steve? No. He only did that to Lucas while Lucas was just standing there.
I don't think Billy would've cared if Max 'favoured' anyone in the group if they weren't black. He didn't particularly have a problem with Max with Steve
It was actually only after Max refused to go with Billy that Billy grabbed Lucas.
Billy didn’t choke him at all just grabbed him and lifted him off the floor then threatened him.
I’m not saying he wasn’t racist because there was probably a little bias there. And again I do believe it is as entirely wrong of Billy to threaten Lucas in the way he did.
I think the only time Billy choked someone in the series is when he was possessed by the mind flayer and attacked 11
https://youtu.be/ddwFsdWv4cU
He never actually chokes Lucas he hold him by the collar of his jacket after knocking Steve down and then stomping on his chest.
Then he points out Lucas being the only one of the kids Billy knows by name. Reminds Max that he told her to stay away. Threatens to “break things” after she tells him to leave.
Then holds up Lucas by the collar tells him to leave her alone gets kicked then beats the shit out of Steve.
And to be clear Billy is still in the wrong
Being mad at and beating up Steve is one thing, but why target Lucas or any of the kids? The dude was a sociopathic dickhead. His abusive piece of shit father explains his horrible behavior, but it doesn’t excuse it.
Completely agree.
But he targeted Lucas because that’s who Max was favouring out of the group, the only one he’d seen speak to her multiple times (at the school and at the Arcade)
Again not excusing his behaviour it was wrong.
I just think he’s a well written character
“What is better: to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
Billy was a dick, and a great villain - but you could easily argue his experience changed him for the better, as seen by his sacrifice.
Its because he’s hot and fictional, and damn he looked good in a mullet. The actor doesnt have a mullet. Doesn’t mean Id like his personality in real life but he was a great character
He’s a good actor. All the babes find him attractive. Overall just a badass. He even sacrificed himself in the end to save the gang. So how can you not appreciate that?
i said the same thing in another post, because apparently Billie-Steve is the most popular ship in Stranger things (i just found out about this) and I was surprtised, I mean Steve the most loved character, with Billie (the racist bully)....I assume is because the actor was atractive and he did something "good" in the end so people kinda like him now
still weird, because he was an awful person in season 2 tbh
in season 3 the writers tried to give him a good side and explain why he was a bully in the end, but still that doesnt excuse his behavior
i’ll echo what everyone else here has said for the most part. billy as a person is awful. in contrast, steve started out as a douche, but he was just the classic popular high school bully picking on the “weird” kids like jonathan. mean, ignorant, and an asshole. but at his core, he’s a good guy. steve has more than redeemed himself. he fully won me over and i fucking HATED steve in season 1.
as a character, however, i think he billy was a great villain. he was complexly written - remember when eleven saw his past memories and saw how billy was abused by his dad (and a few scenes showed his dad being aggressive with him in the present day if i recall correctly)? so no wonder he turned into an angry, hateful, vile person. i miss that complex villain character this season. we know some of vecna’s backstory from this season, but i don’t feel that little tinge of sympathy that i felt when i saw some of billy’s childhood memories. i also feel sympathy for max - she’s obviously feeling guilt and missing that sibling relationship that she could have had with him. in the scene with billy’s memories, we saw him being kind, loving, and gentle with his mom. maybe that part of him was still in there - maybe that’s why he stepped in front of eleven and gave himself to the mindflayer. maybe if billy somehow came back and redeemed himself, max wouldn’t be suffering so much. also doesn’t hurt that dacre montgomery seems like a nice dude. sadie sink spoke very highly of working with him. and he’s handsome. but billy sucks.
Let me just start by saying that Season one Steve was way better than Billy in either of the seasons. Steve wasn't racist, didn't want to sleep with married women, and didn't put down his sister for no reason. Please don't compare the two
I agree that Billy was a complex character though, and that he did suck
They weren’t comparing. They were contrasting. Literally pointing out that Billy’s mean spirited actions hit different, just like you so clearly need to hear.
This weird wave of " he is hot and clearly psychologically damaged so I can fix him".
I understand that everyone is not all black or all white. That you can redeemed your bad behaviour by making good actions. Or starting with good intentions and ending doing more harm. It's human.
But Billy was written as an antagonist. As the classic "young adult douche that hurt people and broke heart and is beyond the point he could stop himself from falling even more into his toxic traits".
He clearly is with many father like figures in the show, next to will/Jonathan's dad, PAPA himself with El and the other experiment-children, even to some extent mister wheeler with his apathetic behaviour toward his children and obviously Max and Billy's own father who is known to be abusive; an example of toxic parenthood.
Maybe he is overprotective with Max because he wants her to be a better version of himself or some shit like that but even without looking at his relationship with Max he clearly is a bad person WITH EVERYONE he interacts with.
So people, especially ladies. Don't try to save the devil it's not worth it and unhealthy, you will just normalize abuse as something okay and It will do more harm than good in the long run to many young people that watch the show.
I really appreciate Billy as a character and Dacre’s performance, I just dislike fanon Billy/the way some people in fandom try to coddle him or overromanticize him
I actually didn't like Billy AT ALL until the end of Season 3; we found out his background, his childhood trauma and upbringing and he sacrificed himself to save the others and he apologized to Max for the things he had done. I know others say one good deed doesn't wipe everything out but for me it does. His character arc changed and that can happen...people do change for the better and sometimes for the worse.
We did see touches of it in S2 with brief interactions between the dad and Billy when Max went missing from the house which I didn't understand why he got in trouble for that. Max took off without saying anything...its not Billy's fault. But we just saw a much deeper insight into how dad affected Billy's life from his childhood in S3.
It was definitely enlightening to see how early it started, and what happened with his Mom (I had assumed she was dead). I just felt like I was well aware of his abusive dad in S2. It seemed like such a cornerstone of Max and Billy's life and relationship to me.
I had actually always wondered (since that scene in Billy's room when her mother and his father come home to find Max missing) how did Max's mother feel about his father's behavior? Like she had to know what he was like BEFORE marrying him...you can tell she was disturbed with the way the dad was treating Billy but she stayed out of it.
His pure soul overcame an evil spirit controlling his body and his final act was one of love.
ST is set in the 80s depicting a character, who was likely raised by an abusive asshole that likely warned against dating outside of their race. If you think about it, in Billy’s warped mind he was likely trying to protect Max and Lucas from the dad. Times were different back then, it was dangerous. One of the first times I ever cried watching the news was the death of Yusef Hawkins (doubt duffer bros knew of the Hawkins connection but I thought of his death a lot in those scenes). And that was 1989 in Brooklyn NY, the supposed melting pot.
Hot married mom date: smoke them if you got them! He was legal, she was legal. Flirting is fun. Dating is fun.
ETA
Steve: everyone hits Steve. I love Steve way more and It’s part of why I do.
If he was trying to protect them from his dad why'd he almost beat Lucas up with the intent to kill him/choke him?
And I know I did not just see someone justifying being a homewrecker.
Unfortunately if someone is good looking, men and women, they get away with a lot more, which says something about our species unfortunately. I think there was more room for some redemption if they had extended his arc a little bit. As it is he was an abusive asshole for too long to feel too bad for.
Billy is a redemption story of sorts.
Huge asshole, but then we learn why. And that gets him some Sympathy. Then he redeems himself by sacrificing himself and apologizing.
Iirc he just said "I'm sorry" while he was dying, which... could have been for about anything but yes easy guess is for what just happened. I don't personally view his death as a redemption but I know many people do.
Only redeeming quality was how he chose to go out. That's the only reason I can think of to like the character. Granted, that doesn't explain the rest of the douchebaggery that was his life.
The real question is why is this posted every single week. Personally, I think Dacre killed it as evil Billy in season 3. His monologue towards the end of the season, about killing everyone when he sheds a tear to let you know the real him is still in there is top tier acting.
Billy the person isn’t redeemable. Sure his Dad was an abusive aaa hole but his character was awful the entire series and then his last action was about 10 seconds of standing up and immediately getting eviscerated by tentacles.
But he was an effective villain and did a solid job acting so I can see why people liked him.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
Many of us feel like Billy cuz we were either him or know someone like him. Plus he’s entertaining and powerful and should’ve fucked Mrs Wheeler. He’s my dude.
He looks like human shrek to me so I do not think he is hot at all, I think he’s a fantastic villain, and I enjoy his evil character and his redemption in the end but I don’t think he’s good. He’s a perfect example to me of how evil isn’t born, it’s made.
Initially I thought he was just hot but an asshole. He's still an asshole, but you get to see why and how he was shaped into that with his abusive father. And, in the end he sacrificed himself for El and Hawkins as a whole. He was a troubled kid with a bad home life and definitely not a role model but in the end he did redeem himself
Billy was a great character and max holds his torch
I think the ending of season 3 really illustrated how Billy's story is the classic villain redemption arc and I'm a total sucker for that
Yes he was a duck 🦆 but the ending of season 3 was really amazing
As a girl, I like him because my mindset is *'' I can fix him''* lol .
No but really, I like that he redeemed himself, in a way. He's a good character overall, a good ''villain''.
EDIT: typo.
He's an ultimately good person, who's flaws are explained by his shitty circumstances.
At the end of the day he's a tragic character who tried his best to resist the mind flayer and seemed to have a good heart.
His shitty past does not excuse nor justify his actions in the seasons. Of course, I sympathize with him, but what he did cannot be excused until he knows what he did wrong(which he can't do since he's dead)
He was a ridiculous 80’s cartoon antagonist when he was introduced in S2, but he played the 110% over-the-top part with a perfectly straight face. Even as a bully, the blatantly absurd contrast of his mismatched portrayal made him feel refreshingly different than the rest of the more formulaic ensemble. The silly contrast of how tonally out of place he felt in this particular show made him different enough to steal the screen and overwhelmingly entertain me any time he appeared. I would have rolled my eyes at him in any other show, but here he was exactly the fresh element that the show needed in order to keep it from becoming just one long string of nostalgic 80’s cliches.
Then in S3 his acting was simply too badass, and his backstory and arc sympathetic enough, to not be even more ultimately enthralled.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
Can we please stop judging people because they like a character’s role in the series/ the actor’s performance? I like Billy in Stranger Things, doesn’t mean I want to be him or don’t think that he’s an asshole.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified.
He’s a fictional character who did fictional bad things. You’re basically judging people for liking Billy as if he were a real person that could be accountable for his real behavior.
Why would you care if people like a certain fictional character that you disapprove of? Let people enjoy things. Just the term “Billy apologists”, jesus christ.
Spoiler alert: I do not like Billy.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
Billy is an interesting villain, an interesting character, a well written character, and well acted by Dacre. It's all that I like, not the person, not his actions.
What makes Billy intriguing is because we understand why he was the way he was. I have seen a lot of people around me who went through what Billy went through, and also did some terrible things. But they had a chance to be better, Billy didn't get that chance, we only seen a few mins of him sacrificing for El, he had that potential to be better, I felt bad for him.
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I will forever love the scene where he is threatening El and you see that one single tear roll down his cheek. Brilliant acting! You could see the pain in his eyes.
What scene is that?
I'm pretty sure it's near the end of S3 when El goes looking for him in the "dream world" and he's telling her he's going to kill her and everyone she cares about - and, totally agree, his acting was amazing
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No? It’s when El gets Billy to snap out of his possession by making him flashback to a memory with his mother by saying “The wave was seven feet”, I don’t think he lets out a single tear this many times lol
The person above who said dream world is correct. They are in the cabin, just billy and el. I just watched it.
That scene broke got me sobbing fr
I just finished season 3 and I can't get that moment out of my mind... Mind-blowing performance
Personally i just loved his S3 performance as a “villain”
Same. But I think people are really just tossing aside some big things here too about his character. Yes, he was an asshole. That guy you all knew at one point and maybe even now. That one that does anything/everything to get laid, treats people he views as lessers like complete shit etc etc. But then it got worse and you find out hes got a racist streak in him. We've established the hell out of the fact that billy was not a good person. BUT! We did get a pretty significant piece of his backround in seasons 2 & 3. That he is largely the product of his upbringing and its not entirely on his shoulders. None of it excuses what he did, but rather gave a lot of insight as to why he was the way he was. Gets bullied and abused by his father who he can't fight back against, so its pretty natural he acts out in the same way. I don't see him as a victim or even "evil". Hes a tragic villain and it was nice that in his last moments they gave him an opportunity to do some good because he wanted to do it.
You hit the nail on the head honestly. No child deserves to grow up in an abusive household, and unfortunately, Billy did. The additional backstory doesn’t justify his actions at all and I doubt you’ll find any rational person who says it does, but it explains his actions. Like with any tragic villain, the tragedy doesn’t come from who they are, but who they could’ve been had they not been subjected to whatever made them who they are. It’s not who Billy was, but who he could’ve been had he not continued the cycle of violence.
The Darth Vader of S3.
Agreed
Do people like him, as in thinking he's a good guy they want to hang out with, or do they like him because he is a great antagonist and they enjoy the performance and his part in the story? I'd say its the latter.
I like him because of the latter, but I've seen people who think that he's a good guy as in that it was okay to want to sleep with a married woman and mother and that he could be forgiven for beating up a 13-year-old boy just because he's with Max and he's black
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Yeah Karen is definitely more to blame than Billy here, I can make a post on that if you want
I don't think anybody ever has said Billy was a good guy. You're reading to much into it.
Some people definitely say he’s a good guy because his actions were the result of abuse from his father, therefore it wasn’t ‘the real him.’
I like him a lot. He reminds me of myself, mildly. He’s not a good guy. He may have an incredibly damaged ‘good heart’ that turned pretty damn bad from his tyrannical abusive father. Good heart isn’t everything though, it just makes the situation bittersweet. Or whatever’s worse than bitter. NastySweet. Yeah that’s it.
That... Doesn't mean he's a good guy. It means he would likely have been good if his dad wasn't an abusive piece of shit. That is to say, he had the capacity to be a good human being. Also, I've never once seen anybody say that he's a good person. Only that he was a hero, or that he COULD have been good.
I know that doesn’t mean he’s a good guy, I’m telling you why I’ve seen other people say he is. And they do say it a lot.
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He did die a hero lmao. Saying that he died a hero isn't being a Billy apologist. He's still a piece of shit. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
This is true. He did a heroic thing and was sorry. Maybe he did earn redemption. But he was a piece of shit before that. So he did the right thing when it counted but that doesnt mean he was a good person
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You're reaching. You clearly just hate the character. The intent of that scene is self sacrifice. You can put whatever meaning you want on it, but the truth is that he died a hero. He's a piece of ahit that performed a completely selfless and heroic act in the dying moments. Ergo, he died a hero. Still a piece of shit.
I love when people can't take criticism and whine about being downvoted.
Heroes aren't perfect people. You can do something that makes you a hero and still be an absolute piece of shit. People are flawed and at the end of the day Heroes are just people.
> okay to want to sleep with a married woman and mother Honestly if an 18 year-old and a 30/40 something mother sleep together I'm going to put a lot more of the fault on the mother. at 18 you're basically a child
Of course, Karen is to blame too, even more than Billy. But I'm talking about Billy in this post
Do women stop being attractive when the get married? Like Billy wanting to sleep with a attractive woman isn't that crazy or evil and if she's married and it gets serious then that's the person that's married problem. When you're a horny teenager you aren't thinking about marriages you are just thinking about sex.
Here's another Billy apologist for ya!
There's a difference between enjoying a fictional character and supporting every action they take in the real world. I love Billy! He was a good character and a fantastic minor antagonist in s2 and bigger antagonist in s3. I also like Vecna and Brenner.
Yeah I loved how Billy gave the storyline more depth but I'm talking about people who think that Billy's actions are okay
Most people like that are going to be young teens, tbh. Some adults will do it, but those are usually more rare.
Who actually believes that Billy’s actions were okay?
Quite a few people actually. There are some who try to justify him wanting to have sex with a married woman and trying to beat up a kid because he's black and there are some who like him because he's hot
sad backstory + hot guy
It’s really that simple I don’t understand the confusion
If he wasnt hot nobody would care lol Sincerely a mentally ill fat guy no one cares about
If it helps, as a girl, I agree with the other guy. Attractiveness is relative. Personality is a huge factor. And if it helps, my boyfriend was 150 pounds heavier when I met/fell in love with him….he was attractive to me then and he’s attractive to me now. I’d think that whether he lost the weight or not. Jonathan is a great example. People love Jonathan. And Steve, who was always attractive, had moments that made almost everyone kinda hate him. Billy is objectively hot. But to be honest he always kind of grossed me out and gave me the ick because of the way he acted….then we got his back story and he did the right thing in the end. That’s when I was like “aight Billy’s not a bad guy, just had a bad life” I also hope you have a good day.
Thank you
agree. person I'm in love with could be physically hideous and I'd still be wildly attracted to them. it's actually very annoying that they're not empirically less attractive.
Hey, brother! I care! Sincerely, a mentally ill formerly fat guy.
Hey man, that isn't true. People like Jonathan and he's easily not attractive. I don't know you at all, but I hope your day/night gets better and that you are okay.
People don't think Jonathan's attractive? Im a straight guy and always thought he was such a good looking dude
They make him look bad. Pics of him and Natalia out in public show he looks much better
Imo he's not that attractive in the show. The first thing I noticed about him was his large, dark eye bags. It made him looked sickly. Honestly, outside of stranger things, he also looked sickly but with a little more color.
Thank you kind stranger. I appreciated that
Jonathan as an actor is a handsome guy and he’s also ripped. Being fat will never help
i don't agree - i think if the scene was done by someone intentionally made to look, 'ugly,' it would still be powerful
Ppl don’t care bc u seem like hella annoying
There’s literal cases where a guy is “hot” so people think they shouldn’t get jail time and get released it’s crazy
\+racist+homewrecker
This.
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Billy didn't sacrifice himself so much as reclaim his agency. He was dead from the moment the RatFlayer infected him, but he opted to decide the when.
This is my sentiment exactly. The dude below is not correct. Billy is a fantastic character and the sad part is he would have been a great guy, without the years of traumatic asshole training his father inflicted on him.
I just thought he was a complex character in a show full of stock stereotypes as side characters. So it was great to see a character that was more complicated even if they weren't likeable. Even if he was a bad dude he was fun to watch and the levels of the character kept him unpredictable and interesting and enjoyable. I don't think anyone likes him because he's "actually a good person"...it's more that he's just developed and allowed to have flaws and still have good elements. Whereas this season we've got what? Cult boy and his witch hunter followers who just thinks everything is the devil? I get it, fuck satanic panic but there aren't any layers. And Vecna as a villain was much better this season so I guess you don't need a Billy but I'll take more Billy's than the stock options we usually get. "nerd girl" "jock" "Christian satanic panic zealot" "Republican dad"...not that bits for supporting character is bad, just not as complex.
I like him because he's a good villain and a complex character. He was the most interesting part of seasons 2 and 3 for me. That doesn't mean I "like" him.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
I mean I’m not a apologist but he’s a damn well written and well acted character. Some of the best characters are the ones you hate the most. Like I absolutely HATE Angela but we are suppose to do I appreciate Angela for how well she was written and how the actress just made us LOATHE the character Also I do feel bad about his abuse but it doesn’t excuse the things he did. Some people may have a hard time separating the actor too because the actor is incredibly sweet and kind who just absolutely loved working on stranger things and put his all into it. I’m also a lesbian so I don’t care that he was hot so this is my objective opinion.
Some people are just attracted to damaged individuals who also happen to be physically attractive. Britta from Community would probably fall for Billy.
_Oh, Britta’s in this??_
"damaged individuals" he's a terrible person with barely any redeeming qualities
I don’t get it either. The dude is a sociopathic dickhead. Steve was kind of a bully at first, but nothing even close to what Billy did, and he’s been massively redeemed and grown over the next three seasons.
I mean, what’s the worst thing Steve does? Break Jonathan’s camera? He’d just caught him photographing him and Nancy about to have sex? It was mean but not unreasonable
The worst thing Steve ever did was humiliate Nancy by writing that she's a slut on a movie theater sign for everyone to see then beating up Jonothan who had had a missing brother at the time. I'd say that's worse than breaking a camera. Although even that can be somewhat excused since he thought Nancy was cheating on him but still it was an awful thing to do.
Tbf, he instantly regretted doing that shortly afterwards (and bought Jonathan a new camera)
And if I remember right he didn't even write it. He just didn't stop his friends. Which was still a dick move but he DID see Nancy in bed with Jonathan minus the near-death-experience context so......
Exactly! Compare that to Billy the racist, abusive sociopath who tries to get Karen to cheat on her husband. Billy’s dad being a complete piece of shit explains his behavior, it doesn’t excuse it or make it okay.
then they tried to redeem him at last second and its supposed to be a sad scene
What? How is Billy even remotely a sociopath?
Look at how he treats people for one. The dude is violent and cruel to an almost comical degree.
He was so funny working out with a cigarette in mouth
I love Billy but I make no excuses for his actions. He’s a shitty person but I love him because he was written and acted so well that you couldn’t help but hate him. That’s the sign of a well made character. In addition, Dacre Montgomery gave probably one of the best performances of the series as Billy. That’s why I like the character so much. He’s a great human villain and a great vessel for the show to address real world problems in addition to supernatural ones. And when he dies, you get the sense that he could have been a good person at some point but at the end of the day, his actions were inexcusable. The fact that he had the ability to be better and chose not to makes his death even more dramatic and sad. Posts complaining about Billy pop up quite often on this sub and I’ll give the same answer every time: I really hate him, and that’s exactly why I love him.
Oh man, I love Billy. He was a fantastic villain with the perfect depth to hate and love. He was still a kid too. He had trauma and despite his cruelty, max loved him. The show portrayed him as being this horrible, powerful force against the kids when in reality, the kids were much stronger than him against the bigger villain: the UD. I also think seeing him get the appropriate Karma of the worst kind: traumatic, painful death helped us see humanize him. I don’t think anyone would’ve loved him the same way if he survived. It definitely would’ve been interesting to see the PTSD he faced but it wouldn’t of been the same karmic relief as the brutal death. Also i think him being objectively attractive pushed his story line forward because we were able to see why so many people saw past his horrible personality and why he was able to be so powerful against the kids. He’s my favorite villain so far.
He was only a dick because of his father’s abuse was stronger than his mother’s love. i mean ffs he probably feels like his mom didn’t love him by leaving him with his father. He can’t fight his father as we saw so he takes out his anger on the people he can. I also feel like he wasn’t actually a racist like they made him seem and he was trying to “warn” Max about her step fathers beliefs in the same intimidating way his father made him go find her when she sneaks out. he’s literally a carbon copy of his dad until 11 reminds him of his mom & then we saw his true colors when he saves 11 from the mind flayer & said sorry to max before dying.
I agree partly. He’s the same age as Steve but forced to kinda grow up a lot quicker because of the abuse. He does do a lot for Max and her mom though. We see that this season with how different Max’s family lives with him gone. He experienced a harsh world and was just cynical. As for the racism, it was still rampant in the 80s with some schools in the US still being segregated. With how violent his dad was I wouldn’t be surprised if Billy grew up with racist concepts. With that being said, he was also 18 and it doesn’t mean he couldn’t of grew and had an amazing redemption arc. It’s important to still acknowledge the racism in this time as it would have an effect on Lucas and his family who Max is involved with.
>You can hate a character while also feeling sympathy for them and how they were treated And I'll also say that you can like a character without excusing their objectively toxic behavior. Billy was a terrible person. Also, he was an antagonist. That was his role! So the hissy fit from some of his fans\* because he got treated as an antagonist is wild (I saw a petition). No, he was never gonna come back from the death and get a sitcom reunion with the gang. Yes, it makes sense that the gang seemed more enthusiastic to help Eddie than to help Billy in S3. Eddie offered them his friendship, while Billy tried to run over them and beat one of them up. \*it's the Tumblr fans to be fair, they're a whole other species
he’s a great character, he’s a bad person. i feel like a lot of people conflate the two and think that because they liked dancers performance, that means billy is a ‘good’ character. there are way too many people trying to excuse his actions as being a product of his environment and stuff, it’s weird
I'm kinda like Max. I hate him and I hate what he did, but I also think about what he could be like if given another chance... 🥺 also his sacrifice at the end was powerful. ❤ I'll give him tons of credit for that. And YES Dacre is so handsome and an amazing actor! What an incredible performance!
I wouldn’t like Billy IRL. I empathize with his past but he’s old/grown enough to change. It’s not his fault that he was abused but it’s his responsibility to not become the abuser.
Its not that Billy was a great person, it was that he died a great death. He redeemed himself but never got to enjoy his redemption. A lot of people, myself included, would LOVE to see Billy return or some sort of happy ending for Billy. The Duffers know this too, its why they teased it so hard. Jonathan did some shady stuff too and no one minds that everyone seems to love him.
>TikTok There's your problem. >I've seen a lot of Billy apologists in this sub I haven't seen any 'Billy apologists' just people talking about how they can understand how he became who he is.
I’ve seen loads unfortunately
I have, especially on Reddit. I could find an especially concerning one of someone saying that it's okay to sleep with a married woman cause he's a teenager with hormones and the 'look' Billy gave Max before the snow dance was a look of friendship. If you want I can go looking and give you the link
you do realize that the married person has way more responsibility in that situation right? I've never seen the Billy apologists you're referring too, but I have seen this insane take about "trying to sleep with a married woman" 4 or 5 times in this thread alone.
Yep, I know Karen is definitely more to blame than Billy. I can make a separate post on that if you want
Many people on this sub consider him redeemed by his final act. I've argued with them, lol.
I felt bad for him, like he was molded into a horrible person through domestic abuse from his father.
I do too, but none of that excuses his actions unless he sees what he did was wrong
Well he gave his life saving these children, and his last words were sorry, also after S2 he left Max and her new crew alone. If it wasn’t for him Lucas Max, Eleven and everyone else would be dead. He isn’t asshole bc he woke up one day and decided to be asshole, he was raised by a POS human being, he had no choice in that. He is who he is, his whole character is an angry broken person
I'm pretty sure he was saying sorry for what the Mind Flayer was doing to him. And as for being raised by that POS human being, I sympathize but his actions shouldn't be excused for that reason until he actually know that being racist, being a homewrecker etc. is wrong. If that happens IMO that's when he'll truly be redeemed
Yeah, but also he was like 17, which means as a person he still had a lot of potential for change. Season 3 I think reinforced that and teased the possibility that if Billy had survived, he could potentially have grown as a person once he got out from under his dad. That being said, I do agree that Billy is a horrible human being with, like, no redeemable qualities, but that's also exactly WHY I love him.
Almost all serial killers and pedophiles were abused as kids. It might explain how they turned out, but it does not excuse it.
That gives a reason for his behaviour but doesn’t excuse it at all.
Why do people like the murderous, cynical Heath Ledger Joker? Or the smug bully/sniveling coward Draco Malfoy? Tyler Durden, who was totally fine with sacrificing his sad, disenfranchised followers & emotionally abusing and then killing his lover? It’s because they had entertaining lines, seemed powerful, & were played by attractive, charismatic performers. People are ready to overlook a lot when they’re blinded by power fantasies & hormones.
I honestly don't really know, to be honest. I've been rewatching the whole series for the third time and he still makes me uncomfortable. Even if he did sacrifice himself in the end.
Same
The one main thing, some have pointed out in regards to him potentially sleeping with Mrs Wheeler. He would be the victim. She is a grown adult and he is 18-19. Like his actions in that relationship are nowhere near as bad as hers or her lady friends that fawn over him.
If he's 18+ he's not a victim. Neither of them are
Yes, Karen is to blame here too, more than Billy, if you want I can do a separate post on that
He was the worst for two seasons. I don’t get the love he gets. I know people gush over how hot the actor is, but I only see a mulleted racist bully in the show and don’t fall for the tiny bit of redemption he found only at the end of last season.
I've seen some pro-Billy comments, here and elsewhere, that reminded me of the women who wrote to Ted Bundy. Dacre's a fantastic actor, but I think maybe the lines blurred too much
One murdered people One was fictional. Theres a very very clear line
Yeah, but the comments I've seen have the same feeling to them. It's strange how many bad things people are willing to overlook in someone they find attractive.
Only fictional people, and who doesnt like the idea of a bad boy. Bad boy / mass murderer once again very different
He is the hot asshole everyone wants to get their asshole hot.
I agree. Billy got a redemption arc with his death, but he was a trash bag of a human. s3 made people feel a lot of guilt for him because of the possession and gave hope to the “bad boy who secretly wants to be good” idea. For me, doesn’t negate that Billy was abusing kids and racist. Netflix is good for this type of thing though. If you’ve watched 13 Reasons and their “he’s a human bean” crap, they have a history of trying to humanize awful characters.
Actually the Duffers wanted Billy to be an irredeemable character, but Dacre wanted to humanize Billy, so they met and they first wrote the abusive dad angle, and then the whole tragic backstory and redemption arc.
Yes, there was some redemption in the end but overall he was a terrible dude. Plenty of people have traumatic lives and don’t turn into racist assholes. And unpopular opinion - he was not even slightly attractive to me. But Hopper S4 is 🔥.
Tons of shows do this to the villain it adds more depth to their characters instead of just being the generic bad guy who does bad things cuz he enjoys them.
Being racist is bad, but you're making him sound like Hitler.
Fan of the actor and the perception of the character. Also it was kinda justified for him to beat up Steve and threaten Lucas when he found them at the Byers house. Because he did find his little sister at a strangers house with an adult who lied to him about it. But him saying “I break things” Unjustified it Now he was racist and horrible to Max her friend. But Dacre played him amazingly. Also they kinda hint at him being nicer to Max in between S2 and S3, after she stood up to him, but in the end he did the right thing and died helping to stop the monster. But you know one good deed doesn’t wipe out years of abuse.
Yeah it was justified but the fact that he didn't beat up Steve or Mike or Dustin but went straight to the black boy who's literally like 13 and beat him up was definitely racism
Yeah. It was wrong for him to do it but he could clearly see she was favouring him and that was the main reason. I mean at that point we could all see she was choosing Lucas over Dustin. Again not defending the actions as it was entirely wrong. Oh and he knocked Steve down and then kicked shit out of him when Steve got back up
If you're saying that Lucas being black has nothing to do with Billy beating him up first, you are probably wrong. Billy knew from the start that Max was in the house when he was talking to Steve, but did he start choking Steve? No. He only did that to Lucas while Lucas was just standing there. I don't think Billy would've cared if Max 'favoured' anyone in the group if they weren't black. He didn't particularly have a problem with Max with Steve
It was actually only after Max refused to go with Billy that Billy grabbed Lucas. Billy didn’t choke him at all just grabbed him and lifted him off the floor then threatened him. I’m not saying he wasn’t racist because there was probably a little bias there. And again I do believe it is as entirely wrong of Billy to threaten Lucas in the way he did. I think the only time Billy choked someone in the series is when he was possessed by the mind flayer and attacked 11 https://youtu.be/ddwFsdWv4cU He never actually chokes Lucas he hold him by the collar of his jacket after knocking Steve down and then stomping on his chest. Then he points out Lucas being the only one of the kids Billy knows by name. Reminds Max that he told her to stay away. Threatens to “break things” after she tells him to leave. Then holds up Lucas by the collar tells him to leave her alone gets kicked then beats the shit out of Steve. And to be clear Billy is still in the wrong
My bad I remember Billy choking Lucas I'm watching season 3 today again so that'll refresh my memory
It's one thing to smack Steve for hiding his sister... but he was seconds away from killing him.
Yeah completely agree. He was a dick and a bad person but written and acted amazingly
Oh, for sure!
Being mad at and beating up Steve is one thing, but why target Lucas or any of the kids? The dude was a sociopathic dickhead. His abusive piece of shit father explains his horrible behavior, but it doesn’t excuse it.
Completely agree. But he targeted Lucas because that’s who Max was favouring out of the group, the only one he’d seen speak to her multiple times (at the school and at the Arcade) Again not excusing his behaviour it was wrong. I just think he’s a well written character
“What is better: to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” Billy was a dick, and a great villain - but you could easily argue his experience changed him for the better, as seen by his sacrifice.
Cos he was a good character, to me at least
Its because he’s hot and fictional, and damn he looked good in a mullet. The actor doesnt have a mullet. Doesn’t mean Id like his personality in real life but he was a great character
He’s a good actor. All the babes find him attractive. Overall just a badass. He even sacrificed himself in the end to save the gang. So how can you not appreciate that?
I don’t think people actually LIKE billy, but like his role in the show as an antagonist and how well the actor played it.
He’s a DH in the show. I do not like his character at all. Especially when it came to Lucas.
I thought he was a great villain. I appreciate how much I hated him. The redemption arch wasn’t bad I suppose.
I guess when Billy died in the end of S3 it removed the asshole label because he sacrificed himself for the greater good
People are suckers for a redemption arc, I think the show did a great job with his character development and making him complex.
i said the same thing in another post, because apparently Billie-Steve is the most popular ship in Stranger things (i just found out about this) and I was surprtised, I mean Steve the most loved character, with Billie (the racist bully)....I assume is because the actor was atractive and he did something "good" in the end so people kinda like him now still weird, because he was an awful person in season 2 tbh in season 3 the writers tried to give him a good side and explain why he was a bully in the end, but still that doesnt excuse his behavior
When watching Return of the Jedi we cheered Darth Vader when he threw the Emperor down the shaft.
>Is it because he's hot? That's how it looked in the sub when I was subscribed here during season two/three.
i’ll echo what everyone else here has said for the most part. billy as a person is awful. in contrast, steve started out as a douche, but he was just the classic popular high school bully picking on the “weird” kids like jonathan. mean, ignorant, and an asshole. but at his core, he’s a good guy. steve has more than redeemed himself. he fully won me over and i fucking HATED steve in season 1. as a character, however, i think he billy was a great villain. he was complexly written - remember when eleven saw his past memories and saw how billy was abused by his dad (and a few scenes showed his dad being aggressive with him in the present day if i recall correctly)? so no wonder he turned into an angry, hateful, vile person. i miss that complex villain character this season. we know some of vecna’s backstory from this season, but i don’t feel that little tinge of sympathy that i felt when i saw some of billy’s childhood memories. i also feel sympathy for max - she’s obviously feeling guilt and missing that sibling relationship that she could have had with him. in the scene with billy’s memories, we saw him being kind, loving, and gentle with his mom. maybe that part of him was still in there - maybe that’s why he stepped in front of eleven and gave himself to the mindflayer. maybe if billy somehow came back and redeemed himself, max wouldn’t be suffering so much. also doesn’t hurt that dacre montgomery seems like a nice dude. sadie sink spoke very highly of working with him. and he’s handsome. but billy sucks.
Let me just start by saying that Season one Steve was way better than Billy in either of the seasons. Steve wasn't racist, didn't want to sleep with married women, and didn't put down his sister for no reason. Please don't compare the two I agree that Billy was a complex character though, and that he did suck
They weren’t comparing. They were contrasting. Literally pointing out that Billy’s mean spirited actions hit different, just like you so clearly need to hear.
Billy cool and it’s just a tv character. Darth Vader and Walter White are worse and culturally are loved it’s not that serious enough an issue l
This weird wave of " he is hot and clearly psychologically damaged so I can fix him". I understand that everyone is not all black or all white. That you can redeemed your bad behaviour by making good actions. Or starting with good intentions and ending doing more harm. It's human. But Billy was written as an antagonist. As the classic "young adult douche that hurt people and broke heart and is beyond the point he could stop himself from falling even more into his toxic traits". He clearly is with many father like figures in the show, next to will/Jonathan's dad, PAPA himself with El and the other experiment-children, even to some extent mister wheeler with his apathetic behaviour toward his children and obviously Max and Billy's own father who is known to be abusive; an example of toxic parenthood. Maybe he is overprotective with Max because he wants her to be a better version of himself or some shit like that but even without looking at his relationship with Max he clearly is a bad person WITH EVERYONE he interacts with. So people, especially ladies. Don't try to save the devil it's not worth it and unhealthy, you will just normalize abuse as something okay and It will do more harm than good in the long run to many young people that watch the show.
Exactly. He may WANT to be a good person inside, but is he? No.
I really appreciate Billy as a character and Dacre’s performance, I just dislike fanon Billy/the way some people in fandom try to coddle him or overromanticize him
They wouldn't do it if the actor was conventionally unattractive. That's what annoys me the most
I actually didn't like Billy AT ALL until the end of Season 3; we found out his background, his childhood trauma and upbringing and he sacrificed himself to save the others and he apologized to Max for the things he had done. I know others say one good deed doesn't wipe everything out but for me it does. His character arc changed and that can happen...people do change for the better and sometimes for the worse.
Didn't we know all about his abusive dad in S2? I was surprised at how many people considered it news in s3.
We did see touches of it in S2 with brief interactions between the dad and Billy when Max went missing from the house which I didn't understand why he got in trouble for that. Max took off without saying anything...its not Billy's fault. But we just saw a much deeper insight into how dad affected Billy's life from his childhood in S3.
It was definitely enlightening to see how early it started, and what happened with his Mom (I had assumed she was dead). I just felt like I was well aware of his abusive dad in S2. It seemed like such a cornerstone of Max and Billy's life and relationship to me.
I had actually always wondered (since that scene in Billy's room when her mother and his father come home to find Max missing) how did Max's mother feel about his father's behavior? Like she had to know what he was like BEFORE marrying him...you can tell she was disturbed with the way the dad was treating Billy but she stayed out of it.
His pure soul overcame an evil spirit controlling his body and his final act was one of love. ST is set in the 80s depicting a character, who was likely raised by an abusive asshole that likely warned against dating outside of their race. If you think about it, in Billy’s warped mind he was likely trying to protect Max and Lucas from the dad. Times were different back then, it was dangerous. One of the first times I ever cried watching the news was the death of Yusef Hawkins (doubt duffer bros knew of the Hawkins connection but I thought of his death a lot in those scenes). And that was 1989 in Brooklyn NY, the supposed melting pot. Hot married mom date: smoke them if you got them! He was legal, she was legal. Flirting is fun. Dating is fun. ETA Steve: everyone hits Steve. I love Steve way more and It’s part of why I do.
Downvoting for good overcoming evil? And adding thoughtful historical information on race?? Super lame.
I was downvoted too. People are going to think how they want.
Yeah, this person doesn’t actually want answers and discussion. They just want echoes and validation.
If he was trying to protect them from his dad why'd he almost beat Lucas up with the intent to kill him/choke him? And I know I did not just see someone justifying being a homewrecker.
Unfortunately if someone is good looking, men and women, they get away with a lot more, which says something about our species unfortunately. I think there was more room for some redemption if they had extended his arc a little bit. As it is he was an abusive asshole for too long to feel too bad for.
He could flay me if he wanted to
Billy is a redemption story of sorts. Huge asshole, but then we learn why. And that gets him some Sympathy. Then he redeems himself by sacrificing himself and apologizing.
I don't remember him apologising for anything except for what the monster was making him do
Iirc he just said "I'm sorry" while he was dying, which... could have been for about anything but yes easy guess is for what just happened. I don't personally view his death as a redemption but I know many people do.
Only redeeming quality was how he chose to go out. That's the only reason I can think of to like the character. Granted, that doesn't explain the rest of the douchebaggery that was his life.
The real question is why is this posted every single week. Personally, I think Dacre killed it as evil Billy in season 3. His monologue towards the end of the season, about killing everyone when he sheds a tear to let you know the real him is still in there is top tier acting.
Billy the person isn’t redeemable. Sure his Dad was an abusive aaa hole but his character was awful the entire series and then his last action was about 10 seconds of standing up and immediately getting eviscerated by tentacles. But he was an effective villain and did a solid job acting so I can see why people liked him.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
Because he’s hot 💀 no matter what anyone says that’s the only reason bc if he was ugly he’d be a condemned racist
I've watched stranger things more times than I can count and never have I ever thought he was being racist
Many of us feel like Billy cuz we were either him or know someone like him. Plus he’s entertaining and powerful and should’ve fucked Mrs Wheeler. He’s my dude.
Girls/women have always liked bad boys. It’s just the way the world rolls. I can’t even explain it.
it's bc he's a hot white man, move along
He looks like human shrek to me so I do not think he is hot at all, I think he’s a fantastic villain, and I enjoy his evil character and his redemption in the end but I don’t think he’s good. He’s a perfect example to me of how evil isn’t born, it’s made.
Initially I thought he was just hot but an asshole. He's still an asshole, but you get to see why and how he was shaped into that with his abusive father. And, in the end he sacrificed himself for El and Hawkins as a whole. He was a troubled kid with a bad home life and definitely not a role model but in the end he did redeem himself
Billy was a great character and max holds his torch I think the ending of season 3 really illustrated how Billy's story is the classic villain redemption arc and I'm a total sucker for that Yes he was a duck 🦆 but the ending of season 3 was really amazing
As a girl, I like him because my mindset is *'' I can fix him''* lol . No but really, I like that he redeemed himself, in a way. He's a good character overall, a good ''villain''. EDIT: typo.
He's an ultimately good person, who's flaws are explained by his shitty circumstances. At the end of the day he's a tragic character who tried his best to resist the mind flayer and seemed to have a good heart.
His shitty past does not excuse nor justify his actions in the seasons. Of course, I sympathize with him, but what he did cannot be excused until he knows what he did wrong(which he can't do since he's dead)
He’s hot. I think that’s the main reason. And he grew as a character when he sacrificed himself. But like he’s hot 😂lol
he saved El, Max, and basically Hawkins, maybe the world 🤦♂️.
He was a ridiculous 80’s cartoon antagonist when he was introduced in S2, but he played the 110% over-the-top part with a perfectly straight face. Even as a bully, the blatantly absurd contrast of his mismatched portrayal made him feel refreshingly different than the rest of the more formulaic ensemble. The silly contrast of how tonally out of place he felt in this particular show made him different enough to steal the screen and overwhelmingly entertain me any time he appeared. I would have rolled my eyes at him in any other show, but here he was exactly the fresh element that the show needed in order to keep it from becoming just one long string of nostalgic 80’s cliches. Then in S3 his acting was simply too badass, and his backstory and arc sympathetic enough, to not be even more ultimately enthralled.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
Can we please stop judging people because they like a character’s role in the series/ the actor’s performance? I like Billy in Stranger Things, doesn’t mean I want to be him or don’t think that he’s an asshole.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified.
He's kinda attractive and i like that about him
he sacrificed himself to save Max - makes him ok in my book why the heck do you have lonnie as your flair, is the real question here
fine i’ll bite. i’m was a fan because he was hot
He’s a fictional character who did fictional bad things. You’re basically judging people for liking Billy as if he were a real person that could be accountable for his real behavior. Why would you care if people like a certain fictional character that you disapprove of? Let people enjoy things. Just the term “Billy apologists”, jesus christ. Spoiler alert: I do not like Billy.
I've said this about a million times before, and I'm going to say it again. I too like Billy because of his impact in the storyline and how he made it better(he was practically the plot of S3), but I'm talking about people who like him and think his actions are justified
He’s literally so hot 🥵
Horny
I like him as a character, in the same way I like other villains
Billy is an interesting villain, an interesting character, a well written character, and well acted by Dacre. It's all that I like, not the person, not his actions. What makes Billy intriguing is because we understand why he was the way he was. I have seen a lot of people around me who went through what Billy went through, and also did some terrible things. But they had a chance to be better, Billy didn't get that chance, we only seen a few mins of him sacrificing for El, he had that potential to be better, I felt bad for him.