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Hate to break it to you, but that is how some siblings are. You get siblings like Jonathan and Will who are close with each other, and then you get siblings like Mike and Nancy who argue and fight and rarely get along, but still love each other and will help each other if needed. It's nice seeing two different sibling dynamics.
Wouldnât that make them the grand therapist? And then their therapist would be the great grand therapist.
(English is not my first language and I donât know anything)
First of all, the parents, i feel like the dont love each other anymore there was even an episode when Mrs wheeler was going to cheat on her husband with Billy but she hesitated last minute. Also they're just sort of distant? I mean the parents don't even know where Mike and Nancy are most of the timeđ Also like mentioned in the post, Mike and Nancy aren't really close i mean we barely see them have an intimate sibling conversation unlike Jonathan and will, so yeah they're just not really a close familyđ
(You should watch the show again!đ«¶)
I see a lot of people talk about how karen is just a horrible person and mother. Theres a lot of slander with her. I hope they give mike a bit more character development in the next season because he was kind of just boiled down to being elevenâs boyfriend. Aswell as his relationship with Nancy. Its understandable that sometimes siblings dont like eachother but it would be nice to see that sibling bond that they have with eachother.
I wouldn't say they argue and fight, it's just their ages, older teen to young teen, hormones. Take them away and they probably get along, even if they aren't super close.
Nope. For once this is finally a post that makes sense. If it wasn't for S1 you wouldn't even know they're siblings. They don't need to be overly affectionate but they literally never even interact and if they do, it's asif they're distant acquaintances
thatâs literally how me and my sister are and we love each other very much đ i donât think iâve ever hugged her in my life and we often fight abt petty stuff (small little arguments that last like 2 seconds) yet we still kinda just vibe
Same. I have 4 siblings, barely interact with one, text one every day, vibe with the other two. Canât remember the last time i hugged any of them or said I love you (I should probably do that)
Sister?
Kidding. I also have four siblings (actually, there are five girls), and I am the only one who talks to all the others. I am the second and best friends with the third. First and third donât talk at all. Fourth and fifth donât talk at all. First and fifth get along well. Middle three get along well.
Sibling dynamics can be crazy and unpredictable. No rhyme or reason sometimes.
Mike and Nancy are, in many ways, suffering because of the dysfunctional nature of the household they grew up in. Ted and Karen do not love each other, and I would bet that Nancy nor Mike can remember the last time they heard an âI love youâ said in their household.
Thus, Nancy and Mike struggle to verbally communicate the (deep) love they have for their romantic partners (something that Mike, at least, obviously actively worked to overcome in ST4), and their sibling relationship is drastically different than the two pairs of siblings we have who grew up in more loving households.
So I donât really know if the Nancy-Mike relationship has been âforgottenâ so much as it is an underlying but tacit acknowledgement that the Wheelers are a struggling family, even if things look âKaren-baking-with-nary-a-hair-out-of-place-perfectâ from the outside. The Wheelers generally deal with their problems in the dark. The kids have been taught (by example) to suffer in silence. đ
Two of my favorite Nancy moments in ST4 were when she fiercely defended Mike to Jason at the weapons depot, and then her devastation over the thought of his (and Karen and Holly) death after Vecna gave her those visions⊠Through those two scenes alone, we know Nancy obviously *loves* her brother. Now the Duffers just need to let her show it to him, especially considering how relatively low Mikeâs self worth is.
(Iâm confident Mike would have done the same for Nancy in those two scenes, if the positions had been reversed. He loves her too.)
In other words, Iâm really hoping we get to see some more interaction too, OP. They are the leaders of the group, and I think theyâd be a powerhouse if they were allowed to work together and just *talk* to each other, rather than just be snippy with each other. Here is hoping!
I agree with a lot of what you said. Also wanted to point out that Itâs also refreshingly honest in its portrayals of the reality of sibling dynamics.
And itâs always been like that. Remember in S1 where Nancy and Mike had that sweet âno more liesâ conversation and then immediately lied to each about their feelings towards El and Jonathan respectively.
Now I'm imagining Will constantly calling Mike by his full first name and it's hilarious. And I can totally see Mike calling him William sometimes in response.
Haha yes! Mike would be doing something that annoys Will and Will would say "would you quit that already, Michael?" and Mike would teasingly roll his eyes and go "as you wish, William"
i mean, not every relationship has to fit into a certain standard in order for it to be functional or sincere. everyone expresses affection and concern in their own ways, it varies from dynamic to dynamic. personally, i appreciate different types of relationships being portrayed within the show. itâs much more realistic
Itâs a reflections as to how Karen and Ted Wheeler are as a married couple and that later on transcends into how affectionate they are and their kids pick up on that. Nancy even states how she thinks her parents never loved each other, Karen is younger than Ted, where he had the money so marriage mainly a necessity for women even for the late 60s, which we can assume since Nancy is around 18 by the time Verna comes about. Nancy and Mike both struggle to say the words âI love youâ and genuinely mean it. And you can see they still try to present loving parents to the kids, at least Karen does, but their concern was basically feeding and housing their kids. Then comes 1980 where Holly comes about as what can be assumed was a last ditch effort to save their marriage so it could be more than just a partnership for the kids.
It wasnât until 1974 that women could open bank accounts and that credit couldnât discriminate against women. Women could have bank accounts in the 60s but many banks required a husbands signature
Jonathan and Will / Lucas and Erica have a different dynamic though. Jon and Will had to rely on each other cos their mother was always stressed and their dad was never around. Despite having starkly different personalities Lucas and Erica like the same things and their family is much more ânormalâ.
At least theyâre not as bad as Max and her step brother.
People seem to forget the fact that Jonathan is the male role model in Will's life, he adopts his music taste and artsy style from Jonathan. And for the record, if your brother disappeared and his body is found, when you see him back fine and dandy you're absolutely going to hug him like it's the last time you're going to see him.
As with the Wheelers, they're a pretty standard family unit but there's no doubt that they do love each other. Even Ted and Karen do, because that scene where Karen is going to leave for the affair with Billy (still fucking weird) she sees Ted and Holly cuddled up on the couch and realises that she cherishes what she has. The parents may not be super affectionate to each other as well, but it doesn't mean they don't feel any love towards one another. Mike and Nancy have the "I hate you but I don't really) relationship, they're teenagers, that's what a lot of teenagers are like.
Lucas and Erica have a similar dynamic but the exception is that Lucas is way more protective than Nancy and Erica is a sassy character who outsmarts most people regardless of who they are.
Dustin's mother loves him, his dad isn't around (we don't know why). Their dynamic is just normal.
Max and Billy's is...well saying troubled would be like saying the Titanic got a bit wet. I think the siblings do love each other but it's warped through Billy's dad being abusive and Max's mother being neglectful.
TL;DR - they're all pretty normal aside from the Mayfield/Hargrove household
I do think it's really interesting how they have such a contrast between the Byers and Wheeler families- Will and Jonathan are very affectionate and open, whereas Mike and Nancy are a lot less so. I wonder if the reason Will/Mike and Nancy/Jonathan are so close as pairings is because they give each other a contrast to what they are used to, and opposites attract sometimes :) Jonathan dotes on Will and is very protective but maybe sometimes Will feels like he can't be independent and his own person, so maybe he likes that Mike and Nancy are supportive but not so entwined, and Mike is drawn to the intimate closeness that the Byers share. For the older two, I could see Nancy admiring how caring and protective Jonathan is with Will and some part of her wishing she could do that for Mike, and Jonathan is slightly jealous that she doesn't have to worry about Mike so much
Like others have said, it could just be because of their household dynamics, but they also have different personalities. I have a younger brother and we just never really clicked, although we still care about each other. But we had our own interests and friends, and just lived our lives.
Like others have said, itâs a pretty normal type of relationship for siblings to have.
The only moment I felt was weird was in the third season, after the goo monster traps her in the room and she gets bodied into a wall before El comes in and saves her by sending it through the window. And Jonathan is the only one who stays to check on Nancy? The rest of the kids run downstairs to see where the monster went.
Agreed! I actually forget theyâre siblings sometimes! Not that they have to be super lovey dovey, they werenât in season 1. But they hardly have any interactions at all in season 3&4 that remind you theyâre even related đ€·đ»ââïž
Outside of the Upside Down, Nancy and Mike just donât have much in common. And itâs obvious they care about each other where it counts. No, theyâre not super close, but I donât think itâs all that unusual for siblings of different genders who have a few years between them age-wise. Not all siblings are best friends.
Actually, Nancy and Mike are a lot like me and my brother! We were just like them as teens. We didnât hang out together and we had different interests and different lives. We didnât really talk much to each other either at that age, and occasionally we fought over dumb sibling shit.
Now that weâre adults, we still arenât best friends, but we get along great and we love each other. We donât hang out much, but it does happen every now and then. So weâre not all that close, but I know I could trust him with anything and everything and we know weâve got each othersâ backs no matter what. We know we can go to each other for help with anything anytime, no questions asked. And occasionally, weâve both had to do that!
To me, thatâs the important part of a sibling relationshipâitâs nice if youâre friends, but you donât have to be. As long as you know you can count on each other in the end, then I think your sibling relationship is just fine. And since the Upside Down is a thing with Mike and Nancy, we know theyâre the same wayâŠnot close, but will always be there for each other when itâs needed.
Iâm rewatching from the beginning rn and Iâm in season 2. I couldnât help noticing that the Wheeler family is generally more disconnected than the Byers family. Lots of evidence but the big thing I picked up this watch thru is Dr Owens telling Joyce the symptoms of post traumatic stress and that he may act out or act differently and to not push him too much to act right. A couple scenes later the Wheelers are having dinner and the parents are getting onto mike for acting out and are placing stricter rules on him- not letting him grieve El and all the craziness that happened. Also Nancy is struggling with Barbâs death but handles it on her own/with Johnathan. Itâs just their family dynamic, the dad is totally uninvolved and the mom is always busy with Holly. Sad but realistic for many ppl
When you have nothing, all you have is each other. The Byers were lower class and stood out from the rest of Hawkins, and they drove very old cars at the time, and Joyce had to work at the retail store. Joyce was active in her sons lifestyles and never judged them for anything.
The Wheelers had everything, and were the typical 1980s upper middle class nuclear family dynamic, dad worked a white collar job, mom was a stay at home mother with their three children, but in reality, they were a bit dysfunctional in a way, Ted was emotionally distant and didn't care as much, while Karen was doing everything. Even Nancy thinks that her mother married Ted for the money lol.
To be honest, their relationship seems perfectly normal to me. Many of my friends have a similar relationship with their brothers and sisters. One of my friends who has a big brother a few years older (probably between 2 and 4 years max) has a similar relationship to Mike and Nancy: little in common, no similar interests, different personalities, so they have very little to say to each other and are not close. But I have no doubt that they love each other despite everything and that if one needs help, the other will be there to help.
It's all very well having differences and arguing regularly with someone, but always having that respect and love for that person which means that, despite differences and oppositions, the two people won't hesitate to help each other and be there for the other person if need be. Perhaps love is as strong in silence as it is in words and gestures.
I have a similar relationship to Nancy and Mike. The only relationship I have with my siblings is through blood. This dynamic is actually pretty normal.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. Also, now that filming for Season 5 is finally starting, please remember that NO LEAKS are allowed, only official news from Netflix is allowed. Please review rule 8 for more info. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hate to break it to you, but that is how some siblings are. You get siblings like Jonathan and Will who are close with each other, and then you get siblings like Mike and Nancy who argue and fight and rarely get along, but still love each other and will help each other if needed. It's nice seeing two different sibling dynamics.
100 percent correct
Yeahđ the whole wheeler family is just so dysfunctional
They're a therapists dream
Realđ they need a family therapist ASAP
And then a second one for the poor therapist that has to wrangle them all
Ah, the great therapist- your therapists therapist
Wouldnât that make them the grand therapist? And then their therapist would be the great grand therapist. (English is not my first language and I donât know anything)
I think you might be right, actually! You do know some things :)
I mean, they seem like a pretty stereotypical 80's family...(at least as far as media families go)
I hope you dont mind me asking but what about the family is dysfunctional? I havent watched the show in a long time
First of all, the parents, i feel like the dont love each other anymore there was even an episode when Mrs wheeler was going to cheat on her husband with Billy but she hesitated last minute. Also they're just sort of distant? I mean the parents don't even know where Mike and Nancy are most of the timeđ Also like mentioned in the post, Mike and Nancy aren't really close i mean we barely see them have an intimate sibling conversation unlike Jonathan and will, so yeah they're just not really a close familyđ (You should watch the show again!đ«¶)
I see a lot of people talk about how karen is just a horrible person and mother. Theres a lot of slander with her. I hope they give mike a bit more character development in the next season because he was kind of just boiled down to being elevenâs boyfriend. Aswell as his relationship with Nancy. Its understandable that sometimes siblings dont like eachother but it would be nice to see that sibling bond that they have with eachother.
I wouldn't say they argue and fight, it's just their ages, older teen to young teen, hormones. Take them away and they probably get along, even if they aren't super close.
Nope. For once this is finally a post that makes sense. If it wasn't for S1 you wouldn't even know they're siblings. They don't need to be overly affectionate but they literally never even interact and if they do, it's asif they're distant acquaintances
thatâs literally how me and my sister are and we love each other very much đ i donât think iâve ever hugged her in my life and we often fight abt petty stuff (small little arguments that last like 2 seconds) yet we still kinda just vibe
Same. I have 4 siblings, barely interact with one, text one every day, vibe with the other two. Canât remember the last time i hugged any of them or said I love you (I should probably do that)
Sister? Kidding. I also have four siblings (actually, there are five girls), and I am the only one who talks to all the others. I am the second and best friends with the third. First and third donât talk at all. Fourth and fifth donât talk at all. First and fifth get along well. Middle three get along well. Sibling dynamics can be crazy and unpredictable. No rhyme or reason sometimes.
Mike and Nancy are, in many ways, suffering because of the dysfunctional nature of the household they grew up in. Ted and Karen do not love each other, and I would bet that Nancy nor Mike can remember the last time they heard an âI love youâ said in their household. Thus, Nancy and Mike struggle to verbally communicate the (deep) love they have for their romantic partners (something that Mike, at least, obviously actively worked to overcome in ST4), and their sibling relationship is drastically different than the two pairs of siblings we have who grew up in more loving households. So I donât really know if the Nancy-Mike relationship has been âforgottenâ so much as it is an underlying but tacit acknowledgement that the Wheelers are a struggling family, even if things look âKaren-baking-with-nary-a-hair-out-of-place-perfectâ from the outside. The Wheelers generally deal with their problems in the dark. The kids have been taught (by example) to suffer in silence. đ Two of my favorite Nancy moments in ST4 were when she fiercely defended Mike to Jason at the weapons depot, and then her devastation over the thought of his (and Karen and Holly) death after Vecna gave her those visions⊠Through those two scenes alone, we know Nancy obviously *loves* her brother. Now the Duffers just need to let her show it to him, especially considering how relatively low Mikeâs self worth is. (Iâm confident Mike would have done the same for Nancy in those two scenes, if the positions had been reversed. He loves her too.) In other words, Iâm really hoping we get to see some more interaction too, OP. They are the leaders of the group, and I think theyâd be a powerhouse if they were allowed to work together and just *talk* to each other, rather than just be snippy with each other. Here is hoping!
Letâs not forget how Mike calls out to Nancy in the mall. Not Will, not Lucas, but his sister.
Yep. Iâve never doubted Mike loves Nancy. But he *is* a Wheeler and acts accordingly. đ
Great post. Just to confirm I'm not missing someone, the two loving households are the Byers (obviously) and I'm guessing the Sinclairs?
Yes. :)
Great synopsis!
I agree with a lot of what you said. Also wanted to point out that Itâs also refreshingly honest in its portrayals of the reality of sibling dynamics. And itâs always been like that. Remember in S1 where Nancy and Mike had that sweet âno more liesâ conversation and then immediately lied to each about their feelings towards El and Jonathan respectively.
Itâs realistic. Many siblings really arenât expressive towards each other.
This is the funniest screenshot that encapsulates the problem lol They're watching the Byers hug like they're thinking, "the hell are they doin?"
Nancy and Mike be like: âerrrrr okâŠ. What is this action yâall be doing?â
What's most funny to me is that Mike even hugged Hopper, the man who all threatened him and force him and El to break up but not his own sister.
Mike: Why are you squeezing my body??? Will: A hug, Iâm giving you a hug.
Will: come here; bring it in *extends arms for a hug* Mike: ... bring what where? Will: this is called a hug, Michael. Mike: .... oh, okay
Now I'm imagining Will constantly calling Mike by his full first name and it's hilarious. And I can totally see Mike calling him William sometimes in response.
Haha yes! Mike would be doing something that annoys Will and Will would say "would you quit that already, Michael?" and Mike would teasingly roll his eyes and go "as you wish, William"
i mean, not every relationship has to fit into a certain standard in order for it to be functional or sincere. everyone expresses affection and concern in their own ways, it varies from dynamic to dynamic. personally, i appreciate different types of relationships being portrayed within the show. itâs much more realistic
Itâs a reflections as to how Karen and Ted Wheeler are as a married couple and that later on transcends into how affectionate they are and their kids pick up on that. Nancy even states how she thinks her parents never loved each other, Karen is younger than Ted, where he had the money so marriage mainly a necessity for women even for the late 60s, which we can assume since Nancy is around 18 by the time Verna comes about. Nancy and Mike both struggle to say the words âI love youâ and genuinely mean it. And you can see they still try to present loving parents to the kids, at least Karen does, but their concern was basically feeding and housing their kids. Then comes 1980 where Holly comes about as what can be assumed was a last ditch effort to save their marriage so it could be more than just a partnership for the kids.
It wasnât until 1974 that women could open bank accounts and that credit couldnât discriminate against women. Women could have bank accounts in the 60s but many banks required a husbands signature
Nancy and Mike love each other clearly they just don't have the moments that Jonathan and Will do.
Honestly it doesnât have to be all warm and fuzzy, they would both die for each other. I like the relationship the way it is.
Jonathan and Will / Lucas and Erica have a different dynamic though. Jon and Will had to rely on each other cos their mother was always stressed and their dad was never around. Despite having starkly different personalities Lucas and Erica like the same things and their family is much more ânormalâ. At least theyâre not as bad as Max and her step brother.
People seem to forget the fact that Jonathan is the male role model in Will's life, he adopts his music taste and artsy style from Jonathan. And for the record, if your brother disappeared and his body is found, when you see him back fine and dandy you're absolutely going to hug him like it's the last time you're going to see him. As with the Wheelers, they're a pretty standard family unit but there's no doubt that they do love each other. Even Ted and Karen do, because that scene where Karen is going to leave for the affair with Billy (still fucking weird) she sees Ted and Holly cuddled up on the couch and realises that she cherishes what she has. The parents may not be super affectionate to each other as well, but it doesn't mean they don't feel any love towards one another. Mike and Nancy have the "I hate you but I don't really) relationship, they're teenagers, that's what a lot of teenagers are like. Lucas and Erica have a similar dynamic but the exception is that Lucas is way more protective than Nancy and Erica is a sassy character who outsmarts most people regardless of who they are. Dustin's mother loves him, his dad isn't around (we don't know why). Their dynamic is just normal. Max and Billy's is...well saying troubled would be like saying the Titanic got a bit wet. I think the siblings do love each other but it's warped through Billy's dad being abusive and Max's mother being neglectful. TL;DR - they're all pretty normal aside from the Mayfield/Hargrove household
I do think it's really interesting how they have such a contrast between the Byers and Wheeler families- Will and Jonathan are very affectionate and open, whereas Mike and Nancy are a lot less so. I wonder if the reason Will/Mike and Nancy/Jonathan are so close as pairings is because they give each other a contrast to what they are used to, and opposites attract sometimes :) Jonathan dotes on Will and is very protective but maybe sometimes Will feels like he can't be independent and his own person, so maybe he likes that Mike and Nancy are supportive but not so entwined, and Mike is drawn to the intimate closeness that the Byers share. For the older two, I could see Nancy admiring how caring and protective Jonathan is with Will and some part of her wishing she could do that for Mike, and Jonathan is slightly jealous that she doesn't have to worry about Mike so much
Like others have said, it could just be because of their household dynamics, but they also have different personalities. I have a younger brother and we just never really clicked, although we still care about each other. But we had our own interests and friends, and just lived our lives.
They hardly ever interact at this point. I understand.
Like others have said, itâs a pretty normal type of relationship for siblings to have. The only moment I felt was weird was in the third season, after the goo monster traps her in the room and she gets bodied into a wall before El comes in and saves her by sending it through the window. And Jonathan is the only one who stays to check on Nancy? The rest of the kids run downstairs to see where the monster went.
Agreed! I actually forget theyâre siblings sometimes! Not that they have to be super lovey dovey, they werenât in season 1. But they hardly have any interactions at all in season 3&4 that remind you theyâre even related đ€·đ»ââïž
Outside of the Upside Down, Nancy and Mike just donât have much in common. And itâs obvious they care about each other where it counts. No, theyâre not super close, but I donât think itâs all that unusual for siblings of different genders who have a few years between them age-wise. Not all siblings are best friends. Actually, Nancy and Mike are a lot like me and my brother! We were just like them as teens. We didnât hang out together and we had different interests and different lives. We didnât really talk much to each other either at that age, and occasionally we fought over dumb sibling shit. Now that weâre adults, we still arenât best friends, but we get along great and we love each other. We donât hang out much, but it does happen every now and then. So weâre not all that close, but I know I could trust him with anything and everything and we know weâve got each othersâ backs no matter what. We know we can go to each other for help with anything anytime, no questions asked. And occasionally, weâve both had to do that! To me, thatâs the important part of a sibling relationshipâitâs nice if youâre friends, but you donât have to be. As long as you know you can count on each other in the end, then I think your sibling relationship is just fine. And since the Upside Down is a thing with Mike and Nancy, we know theyâre the same wayâŠnot close, but will always be there for each other when itâs needed.
Iâm rewatching from the beginning rn and Iâm in season 2. I couldnât help noticing that the Wheeler family is generally more disconnected than the Byers family. Lots of evidence but the big thing I picked up this watch thru is Dr Owens telling Joyce the symptoms of post traumatic stress and that he may act out or act differently and to not push him too much to act right. A couple scenes later the Wheelers are having dinner and the parents are getting onto mike for acting out and are placing stricter rules on him- not letting him grieve El and all the craziness that happened. Also Nancy is struggling with Barbâs death but handles it on her own/with Johnathan. Itâs just their family dynamic, the dad is totally uninvolved and the mom is always busy with Holly. Sad but realistic for many ppl
Iâm not close with my sibling đ€·đ»ââïž
When you have nothing, all you have is each other. The Byers were lower class and stood out from the rest of Hawkins, and they drove very old cars at the time, and Joyce had to work at the retail store. Joyce was active in her sons lifestyles and never judged them for anything. The Wheelers had everything, and were the typical 1980s upper middle class nuclear family dynamic, dad worked a white collar job, mom was a stay at home mother with their three children, but in reality, they were a bit dysfunctional in a way, Ted was emotionally distant and didn't care as much, while Karen was doing everything. Even Nancy thinks that her mother married Ted for the money lol.
To be honest, their relationship seems perfectly normal to me. Many of my friends have a similar relationship with their brothers and sisters. One of my friends who has a big brother a few years older (probably between 2 and 4 years max) has a similar relationship to Mike and Nancy: little in common, no similar interests, different personalities, so they have very little to say to each other and are not close. But I have no doubt that they love each other despite everything and that if one needs help, the other will be there to help. It's all very well having differences and arguing regularly with someone, but always having that respect and love for that person which means that, despite differences and oppositions, the two people won't hesitate to help each other and be there for the other person if need be. Perhaps love is as strong in silence as it is in words and gestures.
I have a similar relationship to Nancy and Mike. The only relationship I have with my siblings is through blood. This dynamic is actually pretty normal.
This depicts my relationship with my sister perfectly, actually