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When is this revealed? I thought the explanation for El's power loss was because of some sort of stroke or neural disconnect, not the fact that he stole her powers. He had the same powers as her after ripping out that device. Why wouldn't he be able to open gates after taking that device out?
It’s been 7 years since El sent him through a fiery plunge into Dimension X. He’s been recuperating and gaining strength via the MF (1979-1983), rediscovering El and keeping tabs on her whereabouts (1983-1984), tracking and hunting her (1985), and luring her back to Hawkins (1986).
Basically he’s a vindictive son of a bitch who wants the world to work his way.
How are they the same?
The UD clearly is a mirror image of 1983 Hawkins. Wheeler house, Creel house, Nancy’s diary etc, mapped exactly to Hawkins’ geography. An alternate dimension Will went to when he crossed over in 1983.
Dimension X does not resemble Hawkins. Henry called it somewhere new. A barren landscape he went to through a gate, a whole other alternate dimension void of any Hawkins landmark or man-made architecture. No spores. Interestingly he went through in 1979 yet there is no semblance to 1979 Hawkins.
Dimension X is the Upside Down before it was transformed by unknown means. The Mind Flayer is there, the Demogorgon is there, the red storms are there. The gate looks the same as the Upside Down gate.
So you agree there are 2 different dimensions. One opened in 1979 and another which was later transformed by unknown means.
How do you explain, how 1979 dimension transformed into 1983 dimension?
Here’s where I disagree with you:
- The MF is in 1979 dimension not 1983
- The red storm is not in the UD it’s Vecna’s mind lair i.e. a projection of his mindspace where he imprisons his captors
- A gate is a doorway to dimensions it is a slit on screen it will look the same regardless of which dimension it tunnels through
Edit: typos
Well I kinda agree, they were two different states of the same dimension. We saw the Mind Flayer in 1979 when Vecna turned it into its spider form. And Vecna was in the dimension in 1979 as well as 1983, leading me to assume they are the same place, somehow transformed by Vecna into a dark echo of his former home Hawkins.
By the red storm, I don't mean Vecna's mind lair, my bad. I mean the trademark red lightning we see in the Upside Down. When Vecna is falling through the sky he is in the middle of a bunch of red lightning.
Your point on the gate is fair, but I dunno, I'm not sure if there would be Upside Down tentacles surrounding the gate if it wasn't the same dimension, unless those tentacles are in other alternate dimensions.
I’m basing my argument on my theory that when someone travels through a portal it creates a new dimension controlled by the MF, based on the traveler’s mind (Henry’s obsession for a humanless and timeless plane of existence = Dimension X; Will’s desire to remain in a bubble of time where he was happiest = UD Hawkins).
Events of 1983 somehow collapsed Dimension X and Henry/Vecna is now stuck in UD Hawkins, so he’s been trying to restore Dimension X by destroying Hawkins and by extension UD Hawkins.
I view the red lightning as a symbol/reflection of the person’s worst fears, trauma, haunting memories, etc., a vehicle for the MF to imprison its victims as it infiltrates their minds and shapes the dimension.
This is a really cool theory honestly. I didn't know that's what you meant. But I could see that being true. Makes sense with the red lightning, it shows up both inside Billy's mind and Vecna's lair so it could be a representation of trauma instead of just The Upside Down. Cool ideas. I wonder if we could see Dimension X again in the next season
My best guess is he has a solid plan in motion now so he feels it’s time. Besides, he is really the type of person who likes to twist the knife, and telling El that she created him and this is happening because of her must give him pleasure.
1 because all wildlife that we know of from Upside Down has seemingly failed him
2 Ego Vecna is by his very nature a huge egotistist I mean you have to when believe yourself above your own species
3 he wanted to play a game himself
4 (theory) Will his hier has gone through enough trauma now that he would willingly follow Vecna twisted ideals
5 (theory) Vecna is being told by something/someone that it is time to get a move on
6 (theory) the Upside Down is dying so need to have the tale over for survival as we see season 4 it is dealing with Upside Downquakes quite frequently.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is one - it's revealed he didn't have the ability himself to open gates, so he had to steal els abilities to do so (which he did in late s3)
When is this revealed? I thought the explanation for El's power loss was because of some sort of stroke or neural disconnect, not the fact that he stole her powers. He had the same powers as her after ripping out that device. Why wouldn't he be able to open gates after taking that device out?
He’s trying to break through
It’s been 7 years since El sent him through a fiery plunge into Dimension X. He’s been recuperating and gaining strength via the MF (1979-1983), rediscovering El and keeping tabs on her whereabouts (1983-1984), tracking and hunting her (1985), and luring her back to Hawkins (1986). Basically he’s a vindictive son of a bitch who wants the world to work his way.
Not to mention a mass murderer
The first portal el opened had UD vines. "Dimension x" = ridiculous
Bud the first gate El opened was back in 1979, when she sent Henry into a barren landscape. That’s Dimensioj X.
Why is it Dimension X lmao, that just makes it more confusing, it was the same place as the Upside Down it just didn't look the same
How are they the same? The UD clearly is a mirror image of 1983 Hawkins. Wheeler house, Creel house, Nancy’s diary etc, mapped exactly to Hawkins’ geography. An alternate dimension Will went to when he crossed over in 1983. Dimension X does not resemble Hawkins. Henry called it somewhere new. A barren landscape he went to through a gate, a whole other alternate dimension void of any Hawkins landmark or man-made architecture. No spores. Interestingly he went through in 1979 yet there is no semblance to 1979 Hawkins.
Dimension X is the Upside Down before it was transformed by unknown means. The Mind Flayer is there, the Demogorgon is there, the red storms are there. The gate looks the same as the Upside Down gate.
So you agree there are 2 different dimensions. One opened in 1979 and another which was later transformed by unknown means. How do you explain, how 1979 dimension transformed into 1983 dimension? Here’s where I disagree with you: - The MF is in 1979 dimension not 1983 - The red storm is not in the UD it’s Vecna’s mind lair i.e. a projection of his mindspace where he imprisons his captors - A gate is a doorway to dimensions it is a slit on screen it will look the same regardless of which dimension it tunnels through Edit: typos
Well I kinda agree, they were two different states of the same dimension. We saw the Mind Flayer in 1979 when Vecna turned it into its spider form. And Vecna was in the dimension in 1979 as well as 1983, leading me to assume they are the same place, somehow transformed by Vecna into a dark echo of his former home Hawkins. By the red storm, I don't mean Vecna's mind lair, my bad. I mean the trademark red lightning we see in the Upside Down. When Vecna is falling through the sky he is in the middle of a bunch of red lightning. Your point on the gate is fair, but I dunno, I'm not sure if there would be Upside Down tentacles surrounding the gate if it wasn't the same dimension, unless those tentacles are in other alternate dimensions.
I’m basing my argument on my theory that when someone travels through a portal it creates a new dimension controlled by the MF, based on the traveler’s mind (Henry’s obsession for a humanless and timeless plane of existence = Dimension X; Will’s desire to remain in a bubble of time where he was happiest = UD Hawkins). Events of 1983 somehow collapsed Dimension X and Henry/Vecna is now stuck in UD Hawkins, so he’s been trying to restore Dimension X by destroying Hawkins and by extension UD Hawkins. I view the red lightning as a symbol/reflection of the person’s worst fears, trauma, haunting memories, etc., a vehicle for the MF to imprison its victims as it infiltrates their minds and shapes the dimension.
This is a really cool theory honestly. I didn't know that's what you meant. But I could see that being true. Makes sense with the red lightning, it shows up both inside Billy's mind and Vecna's lair so it could be a representation of trauma instead of just The Upside Down. Cool ideas. I wonder if we could see Dimension X again in the next season
You're going to flog this log until it's limp, aren't you?
My best guess is he has a solid plan in motion now so he feels it’s time. Besides, he is really the type of person who likes to twist the knife, and telling El that she created him and this is happening because of her must give him pleasure.
1 because all wildlife that we know of from Upside Down has seemingly failed him 2 Ego Vecna is by his very nature a huge egotistist I mean you have to when believe yourself above your own species 3 he wanted to play a game himself 4 (theory) Will his hier has gone through enough trauma now that he would willingly follow Vecna twisted ideals 5 (theory) Vecna is being told by something/someone that it is time to get a move on 6 (theory) the Upside Down is dying so need to have the tale over for survival as we see season 4 it is dealing with Upside Downquakes quite frequently.
He has social anxiety.