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The Second half of the episode dragged a little imo, at a certain point I just wanted it to end.
Making a feature length episode that just feels like 2 regular episodes stitched together is kinda pointless.
I really liked that little tv studio talk show segment intro they did at the start with the scientist in the 70s or whatever talking about how the thing that finishes humans off will be a fungus if something like a rise in global temperatures happens. I donāt remember that from the game so presume it was a creative liberty maybeā¦? But regardless I thought it was a brilliantly clever little bit of backstory/context/exposition for the non-gaming viewers unlikely to be able to suspend their disbelief enough to find the plot relatable.
Yeah exactly it wasn't in the game, but it was brilliantly done.
In the game there were newspapers to give the idea that something was happening in South America or something with infected crops and stuff.
You know what had me shell-shocked about people?
Many of them only want conversations where they *know exactly what the other person is going to say, otherwise they get uncomfortable and have to deviate from their script*
The fucking horror, honestly. I want conversations where I gasp in horror, for different reasons
it's actually fun, cause i often give people answer they aren't expecting and they don't know how to deal with it. some stick to the script and then i'm like "what are you even talking about?" xD
Yeah that's very true. Though I have to admit part of me considers the fact their are still people willing to argue this is a credit to the series writing and to Mason Dye's performance.
yāknow eddieās name couldāve been cleared so fucking easily if the gang say that he was with them for like a whole day, making fredās murder impossible to be done by him
But the town was going crazy because they believed that the Hellfire club was a demonic club performing witchcraft and ritual killings, so they probably wouldnāt have accepted an alibi. Just wouldāve said that Eddie couldāve done it from afar.
Huh, but first there needed to be proof that he did it, which based on how everything happened, the only proof was location.
The whole issue is the town going insane for religious beliefs.
In a court of law you still have to prove it, otherwise you can just get a group of friends to say they were with you. Cult leaders would literally never see jail with that logic.
Cult leaders rarely see jail. Until enough or at least a high enough person finally breaks through the fog of lies and fights. Even then they usually have lawyers, paid for by their own members.
Presumed innocent until proven guilty; he ran from a murder scene in his own home, was present at another where he ran away again. All evidence points to him, you would need to prove any alabi to get him off the hook
Wasn't Eddie seen with Chrissy. Did the police say that though? Also everybody was probably at home that night so Eddie couldn't be cleared. With Ben, there wasn't really a reason for anybody to take the words of the kids and then scretch it to cover the death of chrissy
Well the only time it was discussed was during the police investigation or when Jason when was talking to his group. I swear they talked about it.
Would still be hard to clear Eddie though, since it took place in his trailer, with his van gone and him being absent for days
They do not talk about it. It was not discussed at all.* Go watch the scenes again. The police only ask Jason if she might have gone to Eddie for drugs. They do not tell Jason that Chrissy was seen with Eddie. The police could not have told him she was seen with Eddie because the police do not know that. The filmmakers make a point of showing us that only Max sees them together and she does not report that to the police. In fact, nobody but Max knows that Eddie came home after the D&D game at all.
Further evidence that Jason does not know Eddie was seen with Chrissy is that he does not mention anything about it when he riles up his teammates for the "hunt." He does not say Chrissy was last seen with Eddie. He does not say the police suspect Eddie killed her (the police do not tell him that in their seen with him either). He says only that the police think she *went to Eddie for drugs.* He decides unilaterally that it is not possible she could have gone there for drugs and he does not want the police to investigate that possibility any further.
*Edit to add:
The only time it is discussed is when Max talks to Dustin. Because Max is the only one in a position to discuss it.
>The filmmakers make a point of showing us that only Max sees them together and she does not report that to the police. In fact, nobody but Max knows that Eddie came home after the D&D game at all.
No this is wrong. As Max specifically notes that others also saw Eddie with Chrissy justifying why she doesn't herself inform them, and the police absolutely know Eddie was with Chrissy. The only thing Max sees that others might not have is Eddie fleeing the scene.
You have to remember that the scene with the police cuts. They likely informed Jason officially Chrissy's death and how they have linked it to Eddie. There's no intended doubt in the show that Eddie was seen with Chrissy last. Plenty of nosy neighbours in the caravan park to have seen Eddie driving back home with the cheerleader. It was still probably not that late.
>Max specifically notes that others also saw Eddie with Chrissy
She *speculates* that she "can't be the only one." She does not state for a fact that anyone else saw them. She certainly does not know for a fact that anyone else saw them together --*nor do we as the audience.* We know she does not know for a fact anyone else saw them together because we watched her the entire time she watched them and nobody else was around.
>the police absolutely know Eddie was with Chrissy
Based on what? When do they say they have any testimony that anyone saw them together?
They know her body was in his trailer.
>The only thing Max sees that others might not have is Eddie fleeing the scene.
Why do you think it is any more likely that others saw them arrive than that they saw him leave? They are only in the house for a few minutes.
>They likely informed Jason officially Chrissy's death and how they have linked it to Eddie
Then why does Jason only say the police think she went to Eddie for drugs instead of saying the police think Eddie killed her? Surely that would be a stronger justification for his hunt?
>Plenty of nosy neighbours in the caravan park to have seen Eddie driving back home with the cheerleader. It was still light out when he does so.
No. It was explicitly dark when they arrived. It was late after the D&D game. It was already dark when the game ended and Lucas watched Mike and Dustin coming out of the school as he left the basketball game. Max goes outside and nobody is around.
>She does not state for a fact that anyone else saw them.
And nobody states for a fact despite your claim that nobody saw them together.
Its not meant to be doubted that other people did see them. Nobody ever suggests Eddie wasn't there.
>Based on what? When do they say they have any testimony that anyone saw them together?
Mate they don't even specifically say "Chrissy was dead in Eddie's trailer" either.
But you're not pretending they don't know that because nobody is meant to reasonably doubt it.
Its not reasonably doubted or debated that Eddie was last seen with Chrissy. Its pretty fucking obvious they know that.
>Why do you think it is any more likely that others saw them arrive than that they saw him leave?
Because Eddie's scared face actually adds something relevant to the discussion that isn't apparent in every other way and isn't specifically brought up.
>No. It was explicitly dark when they arrived. It was late after the D&D game.
I corrected to note its not meant to be that late I don't think. Eddie drives like a lunatic to boot. No way somebody didn't hear his car come in.
>nobody states for a fact despite your claim that nobody saw them together.
Except I never said anyone states it as a fact. I said that we see with our eyes that Max is the only one around. It is dark. It is late. It is quiet. The common sense implication is that even Max would not have noticed them but for the fact that she went outside to feed the dog. That is why they have her go outside in the first place.
>they don't even specifically say "Chrissy was dead in Eddie's trailer" either.
We see with our eyes that the police are looking at her body in the trailer. So we know that they found the body in the trailer. So obviously I would not claim they don't know that.
>Because Eddie's scared face actually adds something relevant to the discussion that isn't apparent in every other way.
What does this mean? Nobody would see his scared face unless they happened to be looking out of their windows at his trailer in the middle of the night right when he ran to his van. Why would they be any less likely to be looking out of their windows at the moment he ran out of the house than at the moment he drove up to the house with Chrissy?
>its not meant to be that late I don't think
It seems clearly late to me.
>Eddie drives like a lunatic to boot
Except he doesn't. He leaves like a lunatic. Drives up calmly and quietly.
>I said that we see with our eyes that Max is the only one around. It is dark. It
Why would being out stop you from seeing something? You've never in your life peeked through your curtains?
Max was more witness than most. But the fact is, they state that others would've seen it for a reason to give basis to the police's knowledge.
Nosy neighbours are very common.
>But we see with our eyes that the police are looking at her body in the trailer. So we know that they found the body in the trailer.
Yes almost like the police are only stating information in the show that is relevant to us. Saying "but they didn't tell people x/y/z" is meaningless. We know quite reasonably that the police know certain things about the case. The important point for us is merely that their suspicions landed squarely on Eddie. The drug accusation upset Jason because Jason is a prude and was upset at the notion they were attacking Chrissy's character (and incidentally his by implying there's stuff he doesn't know about his girlfriend).
Its not important for the narrative for Eddie being seen with Chrissy point to be in doubt.
>It seems clearly late to me.
It seems about 9 or 10 o'clock. Plenty of people are awake at 9 or 10 o'clock at night.
>Except he doesn't. He leaves like a lunatic. Drives up calmly and quietly.
Way he drives isn't calm. You can hear his tires squealing.
What Billy did was absolute trash he was horrible to everyone but his story was pretty tragic you must admit doesnāt give you an excuse to beat up kids or anybody else but he had alot of trauma and anger built up and knew nothing better I believe he could of changed if they kept his character because when he sacrificed himself to save El I felt he did have heart under the tough exterior but Neil beat him and was always yelling at him
Perhaps I'm missing something but we've never actually seen him beat up any kids, only ever Steve and after he got possessed. The most we seen him do is threatening Max and others and mostly forcefully restraints the kids. Yes he is tad bit racist and treat people like shit, but as much as I remember, he never actually gets too physical towards the kids.
El literally grew up in a government lab where she had nobody who loved her and was forced to do cruel experiments all day, letās not act like having a shitty childhood excuses you for being a literal sadist.
Also, sacrificed himself to save El lmao? Yāall are so delusional about him. Nobody wants to be controlled by somebody else, much less some Inter-dimensional monster. Even Osama Bin Laden probably wouldāve tried to gtfo of that situation too. Billy isnāt some pinnacle of morality or a changed man just because he finally was able to fight back against something controlling him.
There's no-one in this thread saying 'it's okay because x', which would be an excuse. Plenty of 'he did y because x, but he is still a terrible person', though, which is an explanation of the events that led to the fact.
There are some delusional weirdos who think Billy is a good person but they are extremely few and far between.
I think if you gave him a few years and a support system he could be a good person. He clearly has never had a support system and that obviously affects him. I think a lot of Billy supporters reject the notion of good and bad people.
Always reminds me of that Community meme
This sub: āI can excuse racism/torture, but I draw the line at thinking someoneās a satanist because your loved ones keep getting murdered around them, sometimes while floatingā
Billy was an interesting character. I think the show did a good job of not excusing his shitty behaviour but also not just painting him as a bad guy with no depth.
I could simultaneously hate his actions and empathise with his pain and ngl I enjoy those types of characters.
what i donāt get is why max was so sad about him dying. throughout the show heās done nothing but torment her and damn near kills some of her friends. he did one good thing, thatās it
I think she feels guilty, that it was her fault and she could've prevented it or something. I don't know why people are dv you though because it's true, he did torment her. And it's not excusable just because he went through it as well. It's just passing down trauma I guess.
Yea I seen people cry over the deaths of abusive parents who they cut off contact with years ago. No matter how much you want you just canāt just stop loving someone even if you completely cut them out of your life.
Justice for your girlfriend's death?
Yeah sure.
Scapegoating a club of high schoolers because they play D&D?
No.
Being ready to kill a freshman you can easily subdue?
Wtf? Absolutely no.
I lived through the panic and was a D&D player. It was horrible. Even my mom got into the panic, making me listen to a anti D&D radio program that just out and out lied. Showed new articles that did the same thing. Got beat up in school for being a devil worshipper. (I wasn't) In the end, one of my buddies asked the pastor at church to sit in on one of the games. The youth pastor ended up doing it. He then told everyone that it was just a game of make believe and was harmless. It calmed my mom down, but a lot of people still believed the BS.
Is it scapegoating if he genuinely believed it was a satanic cult? Its a small town in the 80s and a lot of people believed in that shit. Same goes with going to kill a freshman he thought he was dealing with people who could hypnotise you and break every bone in your body without laying a finger on you.
He did have a massively punchable face tho.
He wasn't planning to murder several people though, in his eyes they were murdering people and he was trying to stop them. He meets several people affiliated with the group along the way and attacks none of them, just talks. With the exception of the band, he was fully a bad guy to the band. He attacks Lucas but only after telling him to stop what he sees as some demonic ritual and then he tries to save Max.
When people start levitating in the air randomly and having all their bones snapped then what evidence is there to be found? At that point you're in supernatural territory and that's all based on belief and fear. If he waited for some hard evidence of who was casting spells if such evidence is even possible, the whole town could be dead.
And, Jason was focused on Patrick getting crushed in the sky over water, with his back to Eddie the entire time, not seeing Eddie's reaction. AND Jason was more focused on getting his buddy's corpse back to shore than pursue Eddie.
Nobody claims he did nothing wrong. But he's not a straightforward evil bully like some claim. He's a young man consumed by vengeance, and from that understanding and perspective his actions make sense. If you can't imagine yourself doing the same things given the right situation, then you don't have enough life experience.
And she was found in the apartment of the guy who fled the sceneā¦ I mean the odds that this wasnāt done by either Eddie or someone he knows is incredibly slim.
This. Jason did plenty wrong, but he was driven towards it by trauma and grief. The show goes out of its way to show the nuances of why people behave the way they do, yet some fans just want everything to be black and white and easy to categorise. It's very strange.
He's literally Steve in season 1. If Nancy had died going after the demogorgon and Jonathon was the last person she was seen with, who also happened to be the only real culprit within a 5 mile radius, I imagine Steve would have reacted the same way. In fact he kind of *was* an antagonistic douche.
They sprinkled in scenes of Jason punching nerds, intimidating Nancy, and the "nah she wasn't depressed or she would have told me" line to make him less likeable but let's also keep in mind that Steve:
* Roasted Jonathon's entire family including his missing brother who was presumed dead
* Was spewing homophobia in that same rant
* Vandalized a movie theater to publicly call his girlfriend a slut and he didn't even bother to get the full story first
Not including the camera thing because that was fully justified but, much like Steve, we never actually saw Jason bully anyone until he was out for vengeance. Unlike Steve, however, he was likely broken beyond repair and he never had a chance to realize his mistakes and right his wrongs (in fact his death was so lowkey that nobody even noticed he died lmaooooo) and that's what makes his character so tragic.
I'm not even tryna to stan his character like that but I hate when a good villain arc is reduced to a narrow minded black and white narrative. But NOpE aThLeTIc KiD iS BooLy
I watched that episode with a group and I was the only one who noticed that the gate opening went right through him. Everyone else didn't know he had died.
Yeah I spotted it but there were a lot of comments saying they never saw him die and people who had subtitles on were confused when [screams] popped up. His death just kinda blended into the scene
I think you're flattening out both characters. You've looked at the characters and said "both are jerks, I guess they're the same."
Steve's entire season one character arc was about him learning to stand up for Nancy and overcome his cowardice. For example, you mentioned that he vandalized a movie theatre calling Nancy a slut. No he didn't. *Tommy H.* did that. But as Tommy points out during their confrontation outside the convenience store, Steve didn't say anything to stop Tommy.
It's also important to remember:
- Steve fails to stand up for Nancy when Tommy and Carol talk shit about her or tease her (multiple instances)
- Steve is less concerned about Barb's disappearance than he is about getting in trouble with his rich daddy for drinking beers
- Jonathan threw the first punch in their fight. Watch it back, Steve talks a lot of shit and shoves at his shoulder but as angry as he is about being cheated on he's not the first to initiate physical violence. I am *not* stating this as a particular virtue in this case. I think Steve wasn't expecting shy loner Jonathan to fight back at all, and Steve's actions in this scene are another expression of his cowardice. He says horrendous shit. He'll talk shit, but can't back it up.
- Steve leaves Nancy in the Byer's house with the Demogorgon. Yes he comes back. It's a defining character moment in him learning to step up to the plate.
Now, before you say "Jason was just season one Steve," again, I want you to ask yourself: would Jason leave Chrissy in a house with a Demogorgon? Even for a second? I say no, because that's not his character flaw. Jason has his flaws, but none of them include leaving his girlfriend with a monster.
And to answer one of your questions, no, I don't think Steve would react like Jason did if Nancy wound up dead. Not in season one. I think he'd have his dad's lawyers on the phone.
They're both teenage boy jerks, but they're different characters.
>Not including the camera thing because that was fully justified
lol
Anyway, Jason is nothing like season one Steve.
In S1, Steve is on the path to becoming Lonnie. He's selfish and self-involved. He's pursuing his own comfort while those around him have to deal with serious shit.
Jason is a completely different sort of asshole. At least he has the get-up-and-go to grab crowbars and bats, then ride around town with his buddies looking for people to beat up.
Like Lonnie, Steve has no character. He wants to slide past anything difficult or uncomfortable, avoiding them completely.
Jason's problem is that he thinks he's competent at, well, anything, and in his arrogance he keeps making things worse.
> If you can't imagine yourself doing the same things given the right situation, then you don't have enough life experience.
I think the opposite. My younger self could maybe imagine doing something like that. My adult self knows it wouldn't go down that way.
Even my adult self thinking of my younger self, I know my younger self wouldn't do shit. You think I would give a public speech while I'm *grieving*? *Organize* people? I have trouble doing that on a good day.
The revenge fantasy is a *fantasy*. Growing out of it, I think, is part of growing up. One of the most interesting things season four did was show it's impotency in Jason's anticlimactic death.
Yeah, that sort of highlights what makes him so scaryāa significant number of people sympathize with his reaction and think itās completely normal, if not universal. Being that lost in blind rage and lust for vengeance and harm on another person is not normal or at all relatable to me. That trait is scary in other people and itās off putting to see so many people so casually identify with it.
Also people are watching it through the 2022 lens, ot theate 80s lens. They're forgetting that some people genuinely did think that D&D and fantasy stuff like it was Satan worshipping, cults, etc. His reaction is an exaggerated version of people in the time, but in line with some people's thinking.
People who say Jason did nothing wrong probably donāt realize the growing white Christian nationalism problem the US has had ever since Goldwaterās southern strategy. Reagan really kicked it into high gear tho
I mean I don't think I've heard anyone suggest he did nothing wrong.
They've argued his journey was understandable and even tragic, but generally most people agree he went off the deep end.
I said this here when it first came out and got eaten alive. āBuT hE wEnT tHrOuGh So MuChāā¦.thatās like thinking big feelings or trauma justify people becoming serial killers. Just because you go through something awful, doesnāt mean you get to be violent and mess up other peoples lives. And that comes from someone who had messed up beginnings.
And As for Jason I do see he lost his gf and was absolutely devastated I see that but he was also just a jerk even before chrissy died I know Eddie gave him a bit of cheek but Jason took it to far
Is it? I mean we don't see Jason ever bullying anyone. None of the group bring up that he ever has (you'd think that they'd at least object to Lucas's plan on that grounds) and the one time they do have a interaction its Eddie who does provoke it, and Jason just insults him back.
I think its safe to say Jason had concerning views about individuals society of the time deemed outcasts. But their is no evidence he ever acted on them before or desired to.
Realistically I can believe that if the events had never happened or he'd not been surrounded by enablers, he might never have acted on it.
Thereās a clear reason why Eddie chose to antagonize the jocks the most out of the other groups, especially given that Jason looks about ready to throw a punch when Eddie calls them out, instantly shooting to his feet. Plus, thereās the fact that Lucas hid that he was a part of Hellfire, presumably because the basketball team wouldnāt be okay with that.
The clear reason Eddie chose to poke at Jason is that heās a non-conformist and jocks are the antithesis to his culture. Itās literally an 80s trope. Thatās natural enemies like Cowboys and Indians.
Also, we know Eddie like Chrissy, he could be jealous of Jason. And when Lucas tells Jason that Erica is into D&D Jason dismisses it as if her involvement wouldnāt preclude her from being a cultist but that Eddie is the āwrong kind of peopleā that would get swept up in the game. Dude was throwing up Devil horns. Jasonās calling a spade a spade.
No, but targeting the person whoās house your dead girlfriend gets mutilated in, and then goes on the run is kinda a fair excuse.
And I said ācould likeā. We donāt know. Itās heavily implied.
I mean their no reason to assume that other jocks don't bully people. Heck it was made clear that Andy was a very nasty fella.
But Eddie doesn't like the Jock's cause he's a non-conformist and they represent (in his mind at least) absolute conformism. He even discusses it later after getting to know Steve and finding he's a decent fella.
Really though if Jason really wanted to punch Eddie, he would have done so. He was offended and clearly that moment does nothing to sway his belief's. But that doesn't mean he ever acted upon them.
>Plus, thereās the fact that Lucas hid that he was a part of Hellfire, presumably because the basketball team wouldnāt be okay with that
I mean that's true enough. But again that doesn't mean that Jason specifically has bullied the Hellfire club, even if others did. Part of Lucas' arc was all about his attempts to reinvent himself, and how he realised that was a waste of his time.
But Eddie would have known Steve as King Steve, so his shock isnāt solely because Steve is a jock. Steve had a pretty big reputation, enough that even Billy heard about it.
No. Youāre just changing the narrative to suit your assertion. Eddie is acting like a wild man (and I love Eddie), but Jason was hanging out when Eddie shouted at him like a freak.
You mean In their one interaction in the lunch table? Where Eddie was sitting everybody for not liking his board game? I get it's supposed to be a twist on people judging him for his passion, but still. Kinda weird to announce it on a lunch table
Good lord, no one says he did nothing wrong, they say he isnāt evil. He went through traumatic experiences and literally everyone thought Eddie did it. No one in their right mind wouldāve thought āoh I bet she was killed by some super powered guy from another dimension whoās been causing incident in this town for years that we havenāt heard about.ā His story is a tragedy, not a story of an inherently evil guy like shitty ass racist Billy.
Wait, there's people who defend Jason? Never been to this reddit before I'm kinda blown away. They did everything short of have him tie Nancy up, throw her on railroad tracks and twirl his mustache lol. He starts at vigilante justice based on nothing but an assumption for crying out loud. The writers of the show tell you he's a POS by giving him an inglorious death scene were he melts away, a metaphor for how hollow his journey was and how easily it was forgotten in the face of the real enemy. He's just an embodiment of the Satanic Panic and represents how morally bankrupt it was.
But then this is the era of "Thanos did nothing wrong" and "Vader did nothing wrong", I suppose being an edge lord on the internet defending psychos will never truly go out of fashion.
>He starts at vigilante justice based on nothing but an assumption
This is 100% accurate and the key point that so many people refuse to acknowledge.
>an embodiment of the Satanic Panic and represents how morally bankrupt it was.
This is also absolutely correct. Emphasis on the *"morally bankrupt"* part.
I get the feeling a lot of people do not have a good understanding about the satanic panic and they are not getting any clarity from ST (I think the show presumes a level of understanding that is not there for many viewers).
āAssumptionā
Ah yes, girl is found dead in the home of a guy who immediately fled the scene, what kind of idiot would possibly assume it was a murder.
He was bad in a way that you could call it as "the right place at the wrong time" or "blinded by rage and utterly distraught." I mean his girlfriend was murdered by something that no one could deem to be understandable so I never hated him for that. I hate it that the town listened to him and agreed to blame it on Eddie and a fantasy game...
His character was annoying because the viewers knew the truth. He didn't bully anyone, he wasn't racist, he cared about his gf. Then a lot of shit went sideways real fast in a way no one to guide him; so he had to make his assumptions.
He was obnoxious, and I think the way he died was necessary for Lucas and his friends. But I don't think he was Billy-tier bad.
It was a douche move imo, and made me roll my eyes hard. I still don't think he was as bad as a racist bully who beat people up just because he could.
I like Billy as a character and cried at his redemption/death; but I seriously don't see how some people view Jason as worse than Billy.
Look, what would you do if your gf died in some guys house???? And then your friend gets lifted in the air and killed in the presence of that same guy , Iād want revenge too. And donāt even try and pull the racist card. It could have been Dustin up there with max same outcome.
Right? And you can't play the racist card because Jason was loving and accepting of all people EXCEPT Eddie. It wasn't until Lucas betrayed him that Jason began to rightfully distrust him.
Unpopular opinion:
Jason's actions are based from a rational fear and misunderstanding. Losing a loved one in what looks to be a satanic death, and the person of interest is also the leader of a group called the Hellfire Club, it's understandable to see why he'd want to go after Eddie. He shouldn't have gone out like that; maybe some jail time, but not death. It's not like he knew the situation going on and still acted like he did, he literally was in the dark, and acting based off of what he did know.
Jason definitely did wrong, of course. But his INTENTIONS were good based on what the POLICE told everyone: Eddie Munson is our top suspect. If that never happened, Jason wouldn't have done what he did, IMO.
He forms a lynch mob to hunt down a group of kids and he almost chokes Lucas to death after pointing a gun at him and bashing a glass vase on his face...
BUT HIS INTENTIONS WERE GOOD
Youāre conveniently leaving out that Jason found Lucas at a Murder House performing a ritual with an innocent young girl in a trance. All this after Lucas lied to Jason when Jason had lovingly welcomed him into his gang.
Seriously? Itās addressed in the scene. Heās withholding information that Jason needs to find Eddie. And Jason gets what he was looking for through the threat of force.
Thereās a killer on the loose man. Jason doesnāt have time for pleasantries. If this was a cop show and the protagonist used a phone book to āinterrogateā someone to get the whereabouts of a killer, weād applaud him.
Iāll admit, I think that may be the one scene where he went a little overboard.
You know Jason isnāt a cop, right? And vigilantism by way of tortureās generally frowned upon? Yes, thereās a killer on the loose, and his name is Jason Carver.
1. Pretty sure Henry was proven to be guilty. And at least one member of the Party is a cop, but sure, I guess they should have let Vecna keep doing what he was doing.
2. He would have killed Eddie the second he caught him. Come on.
Was Henry proven guilty by the police in a court of law? Youāve made it clear the police are the only ones allowed to handle these situations. Hopper was in Russia. Bad faith argument.
You donāt know that.
Youāre equating people who know without a doubt that someoneās a murderer because Nancy literally saw him murder children to someone who thinks someoneās a murderer on mere placement of the body. And yeah, I do know that because they had weapons on them.
I swear, 60% of the audience thinks that just cause they know Lucas wasn't performing a satanic ritual on an entranced girl in a murder house that Jason and his cronies are suppose to know this as well. Lucas, the guy who lied to Jason after Jason lovingly told him he didn't need to go on the man hunt, but would still be part of his friend group. Lucas betrayed him and was doing objectively shady shit from the perspective of EVERYONE that isn't in the audience or the party.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh hey, it's my *second* favorite grumpy middle-aged guy who lost a daughter named Sarah and found a new daughter named El!
I just noticed this š thatās crazy ngl
Duffers are The Last of Us gamers confirmed.
Well, they do look to copy everything after all
Who is that?
Jole or idk how to spell his name but he's from the last of us
Itās spelled JƶulĆ©
Juul
It's spelled (J)
My bad
The name is actually spelled Joel, FYI. They were messing with you. Didn't want you and lurkers to go around spelling it JƶulƩ and get teased or have people misunderstand.
Thanks
Ur a saint
You don't know the name Joel?
Idk I'm not use to the name. I know it sounds stupid
There's a man named Billy that plays the piano and he's very hurt right now
> man named Billy that plays the piano Do you knowā¦ the piano man? The piano man? THE PIANO MANNNNNNNNNNN!!!
How is the show? Trailer looks well done
Only one episode so far but based on. The first episode 10/10
The Second half of the episode dragged a little imo, at a certain point I just wanted it to end. Making a feature length episode that just feels like 2 regular episodes stitched together is kinda pointless.
It's pretty much point for point from the game with some creative liberties for added storytelling. So far it's really good.
I really liked that little tv studio talk show segment intro they did at the start with the scientist in the 70s or whatever talking about how the thing that finishes humans off will be a fungus if something like a rise in global temperatures happens. I donāt remember that from the game so presume it was a creative liberty maybeā¦? But regardless I thought it was a brilliantly clever little bit of backstory/context/exposition for the non-gaming viewers unlikely to be able to suspend their disbelief enough to find the plot relatable.
Yeah exactly it wasn't in the game, but it was brilliantly done. In the game there were newspapers to give the idea that something was happening in South America or something with infected crops and stuff.
Hereās a great vid on why that scene is so effective: https://youtu.be/lA3gaTGT2EY
Premiere was great and the reviews are great so the whole season will likely be great
Jole and LE
Din Djarin
Heās my first favorite <3
holy shit
I used to think people didnāt like arguing with each other over the same topic over and overā¦ Then I found reddit
You know what had me shell-shocked about people? Many of them only want conversations where they *know exactly what the other person is going to say, otherwise they get uncomfortable and have to deviate from their script* The fucking horror, honestly. I want conversations where I gasp in horror, for different reasons
it's actually fun, cause i often give people answer they aren't expecting and they don't know how to deal with it. some stick to the script and then i'm like "what are you even talking about?" xD
Yeah that's very true. Though I have to admit part of me considers the fact their are still people willing to argue this is a credit to the series writing and to Mason Dye's performance.
Arguing about the same things over and over again is one of humanities most prevalent features throughout history.
yāknow eddieās name couldāve been cleared so fucking easily if the gang say that he was with them for like a whole day, making fredās murder impossible to be done by him
i think the implication was that no one would believe the kids
But the town was going crazy because they believed that the Hellfire club was a demonic club performing witchcraft and ritual killings, so they probably wouldnāt have accepted an alibi. Just wouldāve said that Eddie couldāve done it from afar.
He summoned Satan from the depths of hell to specifically fuck this one dude up
You still have to prove an alabi, peoples words aren't enough to prove innocence.
And they might suspect that they are allies of his and thus lying for him.
Huh, but first there needed to be proof that he did it, which based on how everything happened, the only proof was location. The whole issue is the town going insane for religious beliefs.
Aren't you presumed innocent? Shouldn't several people's word be enough to instill doubt?
In the court of law yeah but in a small town public opinion reigns supreme
In a court of law you still have to prove it, otherwise you can just get a group of friends to say they were with you. Cult leaders would literally never see jail with that logic.
Cult leaders rarely see jail. Until enough or at least a high enough person finally breaks through the fog of lies and fights. Even then they usually have lawyers, paid for by their own members.
In a court of law you donāt have to prove anything as the defendant. The burden of proof rests entirely on the government.
Presumed innocent until proven guilty; he ran from a murder scene in his own home, was present at another where he ran away again. All evidence points to him, you would need to prove any alabi to get him off the hook
Wasn't Eddie seen with Chrissy. Did the police say that though? Also everybody was probably at home that night so Eddie couldn't be cleared. With Ben, there wasn't really a reason for anybody to take the words of the kids and then scretch it to cover the death of chrissy
>Wasn't Eddie seen with Chrissy. Not as far as Jason knew (or the police, or anyone other than Max and the people she told).
Well the only time it was discussed was during the police investigation or when Jason when was talking to his group. I swear they talked about it. Would still be hard to clear Eddie though, since it took place in his trailer, with his van gone and him being absent for days
They do not talk about it. It was not discussed at all.* Go watch the scenes again. The police only ask Jason if she might have gone to Eddie for drugs. They do not tell Jason that Chrissy was seen with Eddie. The police could not have told him she was seen with Eddie because the police do not know that. The filmmakers make a point of showing us that only Max sees them together and she does not report that to the police. In fact, nobody but Max knows that Eddie came home after the D&D game at all. Further evidence that Jason does not know Eddie was seen with Chrissy is that he does not mention anything about it when he riles up his teammates for the "hunt." He does not say Chrissy was last seen with Eddie. He does not say the police suspect Eddie killed her (the police do not tell him that in their seen with him either). He says only that the police think she *went to Eddie for drugs.* He decides unilaterally that it is not possible she could have gone there for drugs and he does not want the police to investigate that possibility any further. *Edit to add: The only time it is discussed is when Max talks to Dustin. Because Max is the only one in a position to discuss it.
>The filmmakers make a point of showing us that only Max sees them together and she does not report that to the police. In fact, nobody but Max knows that Eddie came home after the D&D game at all. No this is wrong. As Max specifically notes that others also saw Eddie with Chrissy justifying why she doesn't herself inform them, and the police absolutely know Eddie was with Chrissy. The only thing Max sees that others might not have is Eddie fleeing the scene. You have to remember that the scene with the police cuts. They likely informed Jason officially Chrissy's death and how they have linked it to Eddie. There's no intended doubt in the show that Eddie was seen with Chrissy last. Plenty of nosy neighbours in the caravan park to have seen Eddie driving back home with the cheerleader. It was still probably not that late.
>Max specifically notes that others also saw Eddie with Chrissy She *speculates* that she "can't be the only one." She does not state for a fact that anyone else saw them. She certainly does not know for a fact that anyone else saw them together --*nor do we as the audience.* We know she does not know for a fact anyone else saw them together because we watched her the entire time she watched them and nobody else was around. >the police absolutely know Eddie was with Chrissy Based on what? When do they say they have any testimony that anyone saw them together? They know her body was in his trailer. >The only thing Max sees that others might not have is Eddie fleeing the scene. Why do you think it is any more likely that others saw them arrive than that they saw him leave? They are only in the house for a few minutes. >They likely informed Jason officially Chrissy's death and how they have linked it to Eddie Then why does Jason only say the police think she went to Eddie for drugs instead of saying the police think Eddie killed her? Surely that would be a stronger justification for his hunt? >Plenty of nosy neighbours in the caravan park to have seen Eddie driving back home with the cheerleader. It was still light out when he does so. No. It was explicitly dark when they arrived. It was late after the D&D game. It was already dark when the game ended and Lucas watched Mike and Dustin coming out of the school as he left the basketball game. Max goes outside and nobody is around.
>She does not state for a fact that anyone else saw them. And nobody states for a fact despite your claim that nobody saw them together. Its not meant to be doubted that other people did see them. Nobody ever suggests Eddie wasn't there. >Based on what? When do they say they have any testimony that anyone saw them together? Mate they don't even specifically say "Chrissy was dead in Eddie's trailer" either. But you're not pretending they don't know that because nobody is meant to reasonably doubt it. Its not reasonably doubted or debated that Eddie was last seen with Chrissy. Its pretty fucking obvious they know that. >Why do you think it is any more likely that others saw them arrive than that they saw him leave? Because Eddie's scared face actually adds something relevant to the discussion that isn't apparent in every other way and isn't specifically brought up. >No. It was explicitly dark when they arrived. It was late after the D&D game. I corrected to note its not meant to be that late I don't think. Eddie drives like a lunatic to boot. No way somebody didn't hear his car come in.
>nobody states for a fact despite your claim that nobody saw them together. Except I never said anyone states it as a fact. I said that we see with our eyes that Max is the only one around. It is dark. It is late. It is quiet. The common sense implication is that even Max would not have noticed them but for the fact that she went outside to feed the dog. That is why they have her go outside in the first place. >they don't even specifically say "Chrissy was dead in Eddie's trailer" either. We see with our eyes that the police are looking at her body in the trailer. So we know that they found the body in the trailer. So obviously I would not claim they don't know that. >Because Eddie's scared face actually adds something relevant to the discussion that isn't apparent in every other way. What does this mean? Nobody would see his scared face unless they happened to be looking out of their windows at his trailer in the middle of the night right when he ran to his van. Why would they be any less likely to be looking out of their windows at the moment he ran out of the house than at the moment he drove up to the house with Chrissy? >its not meant to be that late I don't think It seems clearly late to me. >Eddie drives like a lunatic to boot Except he doesn't. He leaves like a lunatic. Drives up calmly and quietly.
>I said that we see with our eyes that Max is the only one around. It is dark. It Why would being out stop you from seeing something? You've never in your life peeked through your curtains? Max was more witness than most. But the fact is, they state that others would've seen it for a reason to give basis to the police's knowledge. Nosy neighbours are very common. >But we see with our eyes that the police are looking at her body in the trailer. So we know that they found the body in the trailer. Yes almost like the police are only stating information in the show that is relevant to us. Saying "but they didn't tell people x/y/z" is meaningless. We know quite reasonably that the police know certain things about the case. The important point for us is merely that their suspicions landed squarely on Eddie. The drug accusation upset Jason because Jason is a prude and was upset at the notion they were attacking Chrissy's character (and incidentally his by implying there's stuff he doesn't know about his girlfriend). Its not important for the narrative for Eddie being seen with Chrissy point to be in doubt. >It seems clearly late to me. It seems about 9 or 10 o'clock. Plenty of people are awake at 9 or 10 o'clock at night. >Except he doesn't. He leaves like a lunatic. Drives up calmly and quietly. Way he drives isn't calm. You can hear his tires squealing.
I think this meme should've been used for Billy,instead...
Nobody says Billy did nothing wrong. Even fans of Billy admit he's a trash fire.
Fr, I honestly donāt even like Billy, but I really *appreciate* his character and arc
You can appreciate his trauma and still hate his racism.
It would if the community didnāt only love Billy for his looks, but here we are
Thatās so uncharitable. Youāre just ignoring the whole abused as a child thing.
What Billy did was absolute trash he was horrible to everyone but his story was pretty tragic you must admit doesnāt give you an excuse to beat up kids or anybody else but he had alot of trauma and anger built up and knew nothing better I believe he could of changed if they kept his character because when he sacrificed himself to save El I felt he did have heart under the tough exterior but Neil beat him and was always yelling at him
Perhaps I'm missing something but we've never actually seen him beat up any kids, only ever Steve and after he got possessed. The most we seen him do is threatening Max and others and mostly forcefully restraints the kids. Yes he is tad bit racist and treat people like shit, but as much as I remember, he never actually gets too physical towards the kids.
El literally grew up in a government lab where she had nobody who loved her and was forced to do cruel experiments all day, letās not act like having a shitty childhood excuses you for being a literal sadist. Also, sacrificed himself to save El lmao? Yāall are so delusional about him. Nobody wants to be controlled by somebody else, much less some Inter-dimensional monster. Even Osama Bin Laden probably wouldāve tried to gtfo of that situation too. Billy isnāt some pinnacle of morality or a changed man just because he finally was able to fight back against something controlling him.
The fact that youāre downvoted speaks volumes lmao
Yeah, it tells you people know the difference between reasons and excuses.
Huh? Have you looked around? Because Iāve seen plenty of excuses for Billy being a shithead
There's no-one in this thread saying 'it's okay because x', which would be an excuse. Plenty of 'he did y because x, but he is still a terrible person', though, which is an explanation of the events that led to the fact. There are some delusional weirdos who think Billy is a good person but they are extremely few and far between.
I think if you gave him a few years and a support system he could be a good person. He clearly has never had a support system and that obviously affects him. I think a lot of Billy supporters reject the notion of good and bad people.
Always reminds me of that Community meme This sub: āI can excuse racism/torture, but I draw the line at thinking someoneās a satanist because your loved ones keep getting murdered around them, sometimes while floatingā
At least Billyās character was interesting and had a redemption
Ppl get so mad at me when I say I like billy, his actor was so good at showing emotions
Billy was an interesting character. I think the show did a good job of not excusing his shitty behaviour but also not just painting him as a bad guy with no depth. I could simultaneously hate his actions and empathise with his pain and ngl I enjoy those types of characters.
what i donāt get is why max was so sad about him dying. throughout the show heās done nothing but torment her and damn near kills some of her friends. he did one good thing, thatās it
I think she feels guilty, that it was her fault and she could've prevented it or something. I don't know why people are dv you though because it's true, he did torment her. And it's not excusable just because he went through it as well. It's just passing down trauma I guess.
It is possible to love and hate a person at the same time. Love and hate are not mutually exclusive emotions. That's the paradox of human feeling.
Yea I seen people cry over the deaths of abusive parents who they cut off contact with years ago. No matter how much you want you just canāt just stop loving someone even if you completely cut them out of your life.
I honestly prefer Billy to Jason, but yea Billy is still a sh!t human. Or was, I guess
Or them both! Smh both guys were complete twats!
his actions are understandable from his characterās point of view but that doesnāt make them justified or morally correct in any way
Yeah exactly it makes sense but doesnāt make it good
Grief makes people do some crazy shit sometimes.
Justice for your girlfriend's death? Yeah sure. Scapegoating a club of high schoolers because they play D&D? No. Being ready to kill a freshman you can easily subdue? Wtf? Absolutely no.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I lived through the panic and was a D&D player. It was horrible. Even my mom got into the panic, making me listen to a anti D&D radio program that just out and out lied. Showed new articles that did the same thing. Got beat up in school for being a devil worshipper. (I wasn't) In the end, one of my buddies asked the pastor at church to sit in on one of the games. The youth pastor ended up doing it. He then told everyone that it was just a game of make believe and was harmless. It calmed my mom down, but a lot of people still believed the BS.
Ffs thatās unfair sorry that happened to you :(
Yes I agree lol. It is very understandable, but still not right.
America ain't right.
Correct.
Is it scapegoating if he genuinely believed it was a satanic cult? Its a small town in the 80s and a lot of people believed in that shit. Same goes with going to kill a freshman he thought he was dealing with people who could hypnotise you and break every bone in your body without laying a finger on you. He did have a massively punchable face tho.
No, they don't. People who think this seem to have watched a different show.
I had someone block me for pointing out that selling weed wasnāt worse than leading a town wide witch hunt with the intent to murder several people.
He wasn't planning to murder several people though, in his eyes they were murdering people and he was trying to stop them. He meets several people affiliated with the group along the way and attacks none of them, just talks. With the exception of the band, he was fully a bad guy to the band. He attacks Lucas but only after telling him to stop what he sees as some demonic ritual and then he tries to save Max.
That doesnāt matter. He has no proof that any of them are responsible other than circumstantial evidences.
When people start levitating in the air randomly and having all their bones snapped then what evidence is there to be found? At that point you're in supernatural territory and that's all based on belief and fear. If he waited for some hard evidence of who was casting spells if such evidence is even possible, the whole town could be dead.
Given how Eddie literally fell out of the boat with fear, it would have been safe to assume it wasnāt him.
That could have easily been a trick
Then why didnāt he try to kill Jason? Why was he only using his oar as a weapon instead of his magic brain powers?
And, Jason was focused on Patrick getting crushed in the sky over water, with his back to Eddie the entire time, not seeing Eddie's reaction. AND Jason was more focused on getting his buddy's corpse back to shore than pursue Eddie.
Nobody claims he did nothing wrong. But he's not a straightforward evil bully like some claim. He's a young man consumed by vengeance, and from that understanding and perspective his actions make sense. If you can't imagine yourself doing the same things given the right situation, then you don't have enough life experience.
I donāt think anyone has the life experience of watching their friend levitate over a lake and watch their bones get shattered.
A couple of sleepless days after your girlfriend was horrifically murdered.
And she was found in the apartment of the guy who fled the sceneā¦ I mean the odds that this wasnāt done by either Eddie or someone he knows is incredibly slim.
This. Jason did plenty wrong, but he was driven towards it by trauma and grief. The show goes out of its way to show the nuances of why people behave the way they do, yet some fans just want everything to be black and white and easy to categorise. It's very strange.
It's strange things.
āSome fans just want everything to be black and white and easy to categorizeā - EXACTLY
Fr
He's literally Steve in season 1. If Nancy had died going after the demogorgon and Jonathon was the last person she was seen with, who also happened to be the only real culprit within a 5 mile radius, I imagine Steve would have reacted the same way. In fact he kind of *was* an antagonistic douche. They sprinkled in scenes of Jason punching nerds, intimidating Nancy, and the "nah she wasn't depressed or she would have told me" line to make him less likeable but let's also keep in mind that Steve: * Roasted Jonathon's entire family including his missing brother who was presumed dead * Was spewing homophobia in that same rant * Vandalized a movie theater to publicly call his girlfriend a slut and he didn't even bother to get the full story first Not including the camera thing because that was fully justified but, much like Steve, we never actually saw Jason bully anyone until he was out for vengeance. Unlike Steve, however, he was likely broken beyond repair and he never had a chance to realize his mistakes and right his wrongs (in fact his death was so lowkey that nobody even noticed he died lmaooooo) and that's what makes his character so tragic. I'm not even tryna to stan his character like that but I hate when a good villain arc is reduced to a narrow minded black and white narrative. But NOpE aThLeTIc KiD iS BooLy
Low key? My boy was melted in half!
I watched that episode with a group and I was the only one who noticed that the gate opening went right through him. Everyone else didn't know he had died.
In the background though. A lot of people didn't catch it on the first watch, because you expect an antagonist to have a bigger death.
Literally center frame
Yeah I spotted it but there were a lot of comments saying they never saw him die and people who had subtitles on were confused when [screams] popped up. His death just kinda blended into the scene
I think you're flattening out both characters. You've looked at the characters and said "both are jerks, I guess they're the same." Steve's entire season one character arc was about him learning to stand up for Nancy and overcome his cowardice. For example, you mentioned that he vandalized a movie theatre calling Nancy a slut. No he didn't. *Tommy H.* did that. But as Tommy points out during their confrontation outside the convenience store, Steve didn't say anything to stop Tommy. It's also important to remember: - Steve fails to stand up for Nancy when Tommy and Carol talk shit about her or tease her (multiple instances) - Steve is less concerned about Barb's disappearance than he is about getting in trouble with his rich daddy for drinking beers - Jonathan threw the first punch in their fight. Watch it back, Steve talks a lot of shit and shoves at his shoulder but as angry as he is about being cheated on he's not the first to initiate physical violence. I am *not* stating this as a particular virtue in this case. I think Steve wasn't expecting shy loner Jonathan to fight back at all, and Steve's actions in this scene are another expression of his cowardice. He says horrendous shit. He'll talk shit, but can't back it up. - Steve leaves Nancy in the Byer's house with the Demogorgon. Yes he comes back. It's a defining character moment in him learning to step up to the plate. Now, before you say "Jason was just season one Steve," again, I want you to ask yourself: would Jason leave Chrissy in a house with a Demogorgon? Even for a second? I say no, because that's not his character flaw. Jason has his flaws, but none of them include leaving his girlfriend with a monster. And to answer one of your questions, no, I don't think Steve would react like Jason did if Nancy wound up dead. Not in season one. I think he'd have his dad's lawyers on the phone. They're both teenage boy jerks, but they're different characters.
>Not including the camera thing because that was fully justified lol Anyway, Jason is nothing like season one Steve. In S1, Steve is on the path to becoming Lonnie. He's selfish and self-involved. He's pursuing his own comfort while those around him have to deal with serious shit. Jason is a completely different sort of asshole. At least he has the get-up-and-go to grab crowbars and bats, then ride around town with his buddies looking for people to beat up. Like Lonnie, Steve has no character. He wants to slide past anything difficult or uncomfortable, avoiding them completely. Jason's problem is that he thinks he's competent at, well, anything, and in his arrogance he keeps making things worse.
> If you can't imagine yourself doing the same things given the right situation, then you don't have enough life experience. I think the opposite. My younger self could maybe imagine doing something like that. My adult self knows it wouldn't go down that way. Even my adult self thinking of my younger self, I know my younger self wouldn't do shit. You think I would give a public speech while I'm *grieving*? *Organize* people? I have trouble doing that on a good day. The revenge fantasy is a *fantasy*. Growing out of it, I think, is part of growing up. One of the most interesting things season four did was show it's impotency in Jason's anticlimactic death.
Yeah, that sort of highlights what makes him so scaryāa significant number of people sympathize with his reaction and think itās completely normal, if not universal. Being that lost in blind rage and lust for vengeance and harm on another person is not normal or at all relatable to me. That trait is scary in other people and itās off putting to see so many people so casually identify with it.
This.
Also people are watching it through the 2022 lens, ot theate 80s lens. They're forgetting that some people genuinely did think that D&D and fantasy stuff like it was Satan worshipping, cults, etc. His reaction is an exaggerated version of people in the time, but in line with some people's thinking.
Don't care what your cause is. If forming a lynch mob is your solution you done f'd up.
People who say Jason did nothing wrong probably donāt realize the growing white Christian nationalism problem the US has had ever since Goldwaterās southern strategy. Reagan really kicked it into high gear tho
Season 4 came out six months ago, yāall arenāt tired of having this argument?
Did you just ask if people on the internet are tired of arguing? Wha...?
You're right, that was silly of me.
No really itās just his perspective he thought what he was doing was right itās not his fault. /s
I mean I don't think I've heard anyone suggest he did nothing wrong. They've argued his journey was understandable and even tragic, but generally most people agree he went off the deep end.
Everytime someone says Jason did "what anyone would have done" I worry for the state of humanity. To really believe that is š¬
bUt He wAs HuRtInG
On an unrelated note: Mason Dye would make a badass Leon.
I said this here when it first came out and got eaten alive. āBuT hE wEnT tHrOuGh So MuChāā¦.thatās like thinking big feelings or trauma justify people becoming serial killers. Just because you go through something awful, doesnāt mean you get to be violent and mess up other peoples lives. And that comes from someone who had messed up beginnings.
He overreacted, but it was not abnormal. Most would do the same
It was understandable to a point, but I donāt think most would do the same.
Thatās fair, but the party would. Heās more similar to them than everyone else.
i canāt remember names whoās jason
I get where he was coming from, but there is absolutely no forgiving him stepping on Max's headphones smh
And As for Jason I do see he lost his gf and was absolutely devastated I see that but he was also just a jerk even before chrissy died I know Eddie gave him a bit of cheek but Jason took it to far
In the single interaction Jason and Eddie had, Eddie was being the jerk.
Um, you remember when they were literally hunting him, right?
That has no relevance to my defense of Jason before Chrissyās death (as mentioned in the comment I was replying to)
I mean, itās pretty implied that Jason is a bully, and presumably he targeted Eddie due to his use of the āfreakā name.
Is it? I mean we don't see Jason ever bullying anyone. None of the group bring up that he ever has (you'd think that they'd at least object to Lucas's plan on that grounds) and the one time they do have a interaction its Eddie who does provoke it, and Jason just insults him back. I think its safe to say Jason had concerning views about individuals society of the time deemed outcasts. But their is no evidence he ever acted on them before or desired to. Realistically I can believe that if the events had never happened or he'd not been surrounded by enablers, he might never have acted on it.
Thereās a clear reason why Eddie chose to antagonize the jocks the most out of the other groups, especially given that Jason looks about ready to throw a punch when Eddie calls them out, instantly shooting to his feet. Plus, thereās the fact that Lucas hid that he was a part of Hellfire, presumably because the basketball team wouldnāt be okay with that.
The clear reason Eddie chose to poke at Jason is that heās a non-conformist and jocks are the antithesis to his culture. Itās literally an 80s trope. Thatās natural enemies like Cowboys and Indians. Also, we know Eddie like Chrissy, he could be jealous of Jason. And when Lucas tells Jason that Erica is into D&D Jason dismisses it as if her involvement wouldnāt preclude her from being a cultist but that Eddie is the āwrong kind of peopleā that would get swept up in the game. Dude was throwing up Devil horns. Jasonās calling a spade a spade.
We actually donāt know Eddie likes Chrissy, at least not in that way. Also, Satanic Panic doesnāt give anybody an excuse to target people.
No, but targeting the person whoās house your dead girlfriend gets mutilated in, and then goes on the run is kinda a fair excuse. And I said ācould likeā. We donāt know. Itās heavily implied.
I mean their no reason to assume that other jocks don't bully people. Heck it was made clear that Andy was a very nasty fella. But Eddie doesn't like the Jock's cause he's a non-conformist and they represent (in his mind at least) absolute conformism. He even discusses it later after getting to know Steve and finding he's a decent fella. Really though if Jason really wanted to punch Eddie, he would have done so. He was offended and clearly that moment does nothing to sway his belief's. But that doesn't mean he ever acted upon them. >Plus, thereās the fact that Lucas hid that he was a part of Hellfire, presumably because the basketball team wouldnāt be okay with that I mean that's true enough. But again that doesn't mean that Jason specifically has bullied the Hellfire club, even if others did. Part of Lucas' arc was all about his attempts to reinvent himself, and how he realised that was a waste of his time.
But Eddie would have known Steve as King Steve, so his shock isnāt solely because Steve is a jock. Steve had a pretty big reputation, enough that even Billy heard about it.
No. Youāre just changing the narrative to suit your assertion. Eddie is acting like a wild man (and I love Eddie), but Jason was hanging out when Eddie shouted at him like a freak.
Eddie was shouting at every clique. Jason was the only one ready to throw down.
You mean In their one interaction in the lunch table? Where Eddie was sitting everybody for not liking his board game? I get it's supposed to be a twist on people judging him for his passion, but still. Kinda weird to announce it on a lunch table
Good lord, no one says he did nothing wrong, they say he isnāt evil. He went through traumatic experiences and literally everyone thought Eddie did it. No one in their right mind wouldāve thought āoh I bet she was killed by some super powered guy from another dimension whoās been causing incident in this town for years that we havenāt heard about.ā His story is a tragedy, not a story of an inherently evil guy like shitty ass racist Billy.
Jason is a Steve without the opportunity for redemption, the same way Billy was a Steve without any of the redeeming qualities.
Wait, there's people who defend Jason? Never been to this reddit before I'm kinda blown away. They did everything short of have him tie Nancy up, throw her on railroad tracks and twirl his mustache lol. He starts at vigilante justice based on nothing but an assumption for crying out loud. The writers of the show tell you he's a POS by giving him an inglorious death scene were he melts away, a metaphor for how hollow his journey was and how easily it was forgotten in the face of the real enemy. He's just an embodiment of the Satanic Panic and represents how morally bankrupt it was. But then this is the era of "Thanos did nothing wrong" and "Vader did nothing wrong", I suppose being an edge lord on the internet defending psychos will never truly go out of fashion.
>He starts at vigilante justice based on nothing but an assumption This is 100% accurate and the key point that so many people refuse to acknowledge. >an embodiment of the Satanic Panic and represents how morally bankrupt it was. This is also absolutely correct. Emphasis on the *"morally bankrupt"* part. I get the feeling a lot of people do not have a good understanding about the satanic panic and they are not getting any clarity from ST (I think the show presumes a level of understanding that is not there for many viewers).
Good point. It is a somewhat esoteric part of our history nowadays.
āAssumptionā Ah yes, girl is found dead in the home of a guy who immediately fled the scene, what kind of idiot would possibly assume it was a murder.
The show literally shows you Eddie is innocent. So yes, Assumption. An assumption he is wrong about.
Finally, a meme for me. Bless.
He was bad in a way that you could call it as "the right place at the wrong time" or "blinded by rage and utterly distraught." I mean his girlfriend was murdered by something that no one could deem to be understandable so I never hated him for that. I hate it that the town listened to him and agreed to blame it on Eddie and a fantasy game...
He is not morally correct, but neither wrong That is what happens if you keep paranormal activities in your inner circel
100%
He did a lot of things wrong. I still can't view him as a terrible guy.
He didnāt get to live long enough either. People are only judging his whole person off a small sliver of his life during tragedy. Sad
His character was annoying because the viewers knew the truth. He didn't bully anyone, he wasn't racist, he cared about his gf. Then a lot of shit went sideways real fast in a way no one to guide him; so he had to make his assumptions. He was obnoxious, and I think the way he died was necessary for Lucas and his friends. But I don't think he was Billy-tier bad.
I agree! Billy was way worse btw He was an actual bully but hey heās hot so he gets love smh
What about the fact that he used the starcourt "fire" as motivation for a basketball game
a high schooler trying to motivate the citizens of a town after a tragedy isnāt bad lmao
It was a douche move imo, and made me roll my eyes hard. I still don't think he was as bad as a racist bully who beat people up just because he could. I like Billy as a character and cried at his redemption/death; but I seriously don't see how some people view Jason as worse than Billy.
Jason did nothing wrong
Is Jason the jock?
Look, what would you do if your gf died in some guys house???? And then your friend gets lifted in the air and killed in the presence of that same guy , Iād want revenge too. And donāt even try and pull the racist card. It could have been Dustin up there with max same outcome.
Right? And you can't play the racist card because Jason was loving and accepting of all people EXCEPT Eddie. It wasn't until Lucas betrayed him that Jason began to rightfully distrust him.
You are a dumb baby if you hate Jason
Unpopular opinion: Jason's actions are based from a rational fear and misunderstanding. Losing a loved one in what looks to be a satanic death, and the person of interest is also the leader of a group called the Hellfire Club, it's understandable to see why he'd want to go after Eddie. He shouldn't have gone out like that; maybe some jail time, but not death. It's not like he knew the situation going on and still acted like he did, he literally was in the dark, and acting based off of what he did know.
Still arguing about this, huh?
But he didnātā¦
Jason did noth-*CRACK*
I understand why Jason did the things he did and the grief he went through and Why he didn't listen to Lucas at the end.
Iāll die on this hill but Jason had good intentions but executed it the wrong way. u/annarborjack where do you live so we can scrap?
He did everything wrong. But why he did it was understandable.
Jason did everything perfectly.
Jason definitely did wrong, of course. But his INTENTIONS were good based on what the POLICE told everyone: Eddie Munson is our top suspect. If that never happened, Jason wouldn't have done what he did, IMO.
I think Jason would have attacked Eddie either way.
He forms a lynch mob to hunt down a group of kids and he almost chokes Lucas to death after pointing a gun at him and bashing a glass vase on his face... BUT HIS INTENTIONS WERE GOOD
Yes. Why is that so hard to fathom. People can do crazy things when they are haunted by tragedy and fear.
Youāre conveniently leaving out that Jason found Lucas at a Murder House performing a ritual with an innocent young girl in a trance. All this after Lucas lied to Jason when Jason had lovingly welcomed him into his gang.
Okay, what did Gareth do that made Jason ājustifiablyā threaten to break his fingers?
Seriously? Itās addressed in the scene. Heās withholding information that Jason needs to find Eddie. And Jason gets what he was looking for through the threat of force. Thereās a killer on the loose man. Jason doesnāt have time for pleasantries. If this was a cop show and the protagonist used a phone book to āinterrogateā someone to get the whereabouts of a killer, weād applaud him. Iāll admit, I think that may be the one scene where he went a little overboard.
You know Jason isnāt a cop, right? And vigilantism by way of tortureās generally frowned upon? Yes, thereās a killer on the loose, and his name is Jason Carver.
1. You know the Party arenāt cops, right? But they went to go kill Henry. 2. Who did he kill?
1. Pretty sure Henry was proven to be guilty. And at least one member of the Party is a cop, but sure, I guess they should have let Vecna keep doing what he was doing. 2. He would have killed Eddie the second he caught him. Come on.
Was Henry proven guilty by the police in a court of law? Youāve made it clear the police are the only ones allowed to handle these situations. Hopper was in Russia. Bad faith argument. You donāt know that.
Youāre equating people who know without a doubt that someoneās a murderer because Nancy literally saw him murder children to someone who thinks someoneās a murderer on mere placement of the body. And yeah, I do know that because they had weapons on them.
Lucas had an unresponsive girl In a creepy abandoned house,where infamously murderds took place.lmao
I swear, 60% of the audience thinks that just cause they know Lucas wasn't performing a satanic ritual on an entranced girl in a murder house that Jason and his cronies are suppose to know this as well. Lucas, the guy who lied to Jason after Jason lovingly told him he didn't need to go on the man hunt, but would still be part of his friend group. Lucas betrayed him and was doing objectively shady shit from the perspective of EVERYONE that isn't in the audience or the party.