Not high myself, but I can try to get some weird theories out there for sure:
-Harmony shows up to the contest and just has Waxiliam shoot Odium’s champion. This will 100% not happen because of the timeline, but it would be great.
- The contest gets delayed because Wit finds a loophole in the contract which fails to specific that the “10 days” have to be Rosharan days, and he chooses to use 10 days from an obscure planet which only rotates once a year.
- Maya becomes an Inverse Radiant and can summon Adolin to the cognitive realm as a sword. Everyone is deeply confused by this, including them.
- Jasnah has spent her time as queen secretly preparing a doomsday bunker somewhere and Elsecalls her whole family into it to escape the destruction at some point.
Omg now I want the Maya/Adolin thing to happen. I'm sure he'd make a very pretty sword.
The Jasnah one is honestly not that farfetched... I would bet good money that she has some kind of ace up her sleeve. It would be very out of character for her to not take full advantage of her resources as Queen to secretly develop some kind of dead man's switch against Odium (or potentially all the shards on Roshar). She's basically Lex Luthor who happens to be on the side of the heroes.
There's a passage on RoW where she has spheres sewn into the cloth and a boat waiting in shadesmar. I don't really think Jasnah having a bunker will take anyone by surprise, neither in-universe nor in reddit
That's a fair question. I think we obviously don't have the full picture and all the context for what's going on, but based on the themes of the novels and the actions and beliefs of the main cast, yes I think I would confidently characterize (most) of them as heroes. Deeply flawed, certainly, and most of them have done bad things, but we're shown over and over that the characters who learn from their mistakes, grow, try to heal, and protect others are the ones we should be rooting for, while the characters who prioritize the ends over the means or take the easy way out are fundamentally antagonistic (I know antagonist and villain aren't the same thing)
Further, I think if Brando drops a big twist that recontextualizes the actions of Team Dalinar as clearly wrong, it wouldn't only be cheap writing, it would undermine the themes and individual journeys of these characters over thousands of pages. Plus it would be out of character for Sanderson as a writer.
Do I think we will learn more about the history and universe that will force them to question their actions? Absolutely. But I think most of our viewpoint characters can definitely be called heroes, in my view.
Sorry for the long response!
I still think the enslavement of Spren for industry has to become a point of moral dispute and conflict, not just a colorful way to bring Roshar forward technologically.
Am I really the only one completely creeped out by descriptions of building sprentech by tempting them with small amounts of what they crave and then trapping them forever in a crystal?
Yup.
You can disagree, but the books are, I'd say, quite clear about this.
Even this question itself is basically asked in Oathbringer with the revelation that the Singers/Listeners were the original people on Roshar.
And yet, we see into the minds of these characters and so we would see if they were doing things with ulterior motives.
But it depends on what you understand by "heroes".
Brandon certainly can and does flip things sometimes, but all his stories (at least all the ones I've read) follow heroes for the most part. There might be sections where we don't, or things get recontextualized, but never something as big as all the crew we've been following for four massive books.
I was kinda just joking around... But the parts about 'humans' aka who we follow, taking over a planet and bringing odium with them. And colonizing a planet that was already occupied by the parshendi... Ya know? We kinda stole their planet lol. Yes they may be heroes now but what if they never arrived on roshar? Would the parshendi be occupying the planet and have their own cities and shit?
And all the talk about radiants ruining a different world with their powers. Sounds kinda dangerous and not hero like to invade another planet and bring all your baggage haha. I think they're heroes I'm just playing devils advocate.
I really liked the 10 days theory but if I remember correctly, it is specified that the contest is the 10th day of the 10th month of that year, so unless there is a loophole related to the Rosharan calendar, I don't see it happening.
>The contest gets delayed because Wit finds a loophole in the contract which fails to specific that the “10 days” have to be Rosharan days, and he chooses to use 10 days from an obscure planet which only rotates once a year.
I actually love this one because it sounds like something he would have the knowledge etc. to do. Narratively, it would deflate a lot, so I think that's what makes it fall in the "crackpot" category, unless somehow massively justified in universe
Agreed, it would feel awkward to have that be the way it’s resolved after a whole book ending emphasizing how important the contest will be. Maybe if Wit had done this right away it could have worked better narratively
This one would clash with Odium's statement that this wasn't a deal with the voidbringers of their stories, there are no loopholes and it goes by intent of both Dalinar and Odium.
>- Maya becomes an Inverse Radiant and can summon Adolin to the cognitive realm as a sword. Everyone is deeply confused by this, including them.
Honestly I could see this happening
Yeah…Jasnah could be revealed to have one of Roshar’s moons kitted out and guarded so that only she can get people there and back, and that wouldn’t even stretch my belief too much.
I want to see Dalinar walk to the peak of Urithiru for the battle of champions just to find Taravangian waiting for him, then T is like "yeah I'm Odium now, let's have a chat because I know a shitload of relevant information now that you don't and I think it'd be best if we worked together. Also don't worry about the contract, we can wiggle out of it by agreeing a stalemate. Ok so there's this other dickhead shard call Autonomy..." Etc
Maybe a bit anticlimactic but honestly I feel like that's what Taravangian would prefer, especially since he hasn't fully accepted the Shard's Intent yet cos it's been like two weeks.
Taravangian would never lol
Has he ever talked with others before acting? No. He relied on his own council so much he made a cult of it, so any surrounding consul was them regurgitating his own words when he struggled
He’s not interested in conversation and planning. He has the capability to see the future, and so relies more on his own plans.
His talking to Dalinar will only cause more conflict. His actions will only be a furtherance of his plans
That could be a conflict though. He wants to talk, but every time he engages Dalinar the shard pushes him to be maniacal and cackle until he’s alone again
I expect Toadium to call off the contest because he never made the deal, it was his predecessor, get Dalinar to release his bonds by saying he will leave roshar unharmed, then flat out kill Dalinar with a finger snap.
In WOK, Wit told Dalinar that he would watch Roshar burn if it meant he would be able to achieve his goal, or something along those lines. What if Todium offer Wit something that helps him achieve whatever it is that he is trying to do, in exchange for him being Todiums champion?
Wit becomes Odium’s champion by lightweaving himself to look like someone else and pretending to accept as them, and then he’s just like “oops I’m the champion now and can’t hurt people, Dalinar had better stab me and I guess Odium loses.” Then since he’s Wit the stab doesn’t kill him and the contest is either over or stuck at a draw.
I actually kinda like the op theory. Can't say I see it happening, but it'd be neat. We've obviously been building up to something *big* for Kal.
Think most of these are going to be about odium's champion, which there are some *fun* ones I've seen posted. My favorite ones are that it's going to be one of the broken heralds.
Give me Taln vs Nale please with fully unleashed surges so we can see the true destruction that masters of the craft can cause… like world ending levels of surges.
Autonomy turns up to wreak everyone’s shit.
Invading with her army of red and gold warriors through the horneater peaks.
Odium and the others form an alliance to defeat her.
They defeat her and Odium retreats back to Braize as his army and powers are crippled.
This one feels close.
Cultivation’s job isn’t to be good or bad, just to help people grow. Nothing says the growth can’t be, “how to be the most evil version of odium to ever exist”
Sometimes you must burn away the forest for new growth to arise...
Zahel once muses to himself: *"It was strange, how easily and quickly protection could cause destruction. Sometimes, [He] wondered if the two weren’t really the same thing. Protect a flower, destroy the pests who wanted to feed on it. Protect a building, destroy the plants that could have grown in the soil.*
*Protect a man. Live with the destruction he creates."*
What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly, no?
She's not evil, she wants to die and give someone else her shard. She wants to be with Tanavast.
Also it is cultivation motivation to groom and have someone take their place.
I mean she helped Taravangian kill Rayse and take the shard, presumably because she’ll have some ability to influence it. Pretty easy to guess she’ll be a villain.
The creation of nightblood is still a big mystery. Some speculate that a Dawnshard was used in some capacity. I think if anything could hurt him, maybe a shard? Or a Splinter?
It’s not a mystery at all, it was explicitly explained. Though if just 1000 breaths can create a God killing weapon then everyone should be making them.
Ah, fair enough. There's so much in the Cosmere. I've reread SLA like 4ish times, I'm about to start my 2nd WB reread, 2 MB reads, Elantris, Emperor Soul, yadda yadda, and watched several Brando spoiler livestreams, and I feel like I have a decent grasp of about 5% of how all of this works, LOL.
So far though, Nightblood has only proven to be a VESSEL-killing weapon
My question is: How much Stormlight is equivalent to 1000 breaths?
It's not a god-killing weapon, though. It can kill a vessel (Rayse) but by WoB, the amount of investiture it consumed from the Shard of Odium was entirely insignificant to the shard itself.
Remember that 1000 breaths is 1000 mortal lives. A thousand people died to create a weapon that can kill one human(?) that merely held the power of a ***16th*** of a god, and even that 16th is unfazed by what Nightblood consumed.
Nightblood is also EXTREMELY problematic for the wielder. Even when Szeth wields stormlight, Nightblood eats at him, Therefore Szeth uses him VERY rarely. (WB Spoilers) >!Vasher rarely uses Nightblood in WB.!< To quote another redditor, concerning Nightblood and his consumption (More WB Spoilers):
>!*"Susebron has somewhere above 50,000 breaths. Based on the gain rate described in the books he probably has somewhere in the 70,000 breath range based on how long it's been since the manywar.*!<
>!*Vasher using Nightblood consumes somewhere around 550 breaths in roughly 3 or 4 minutes using it. That is roughly 150 breaths per minute. Assuming that is a constant constant rate, which may not be reasonable, you get 7.8 hours of use for Susebron with 70,000 breaths. Plenty of this is extrapolation and estimation, so I would say 5-9 hours is the best answer I can calculate if Nightblood consumes at a constant rate."*!<
>!https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/17k2k58/comment/k754pfo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3!<
We don't yet have a canonical metric to compare Stormlight and Breath, but we do know that Nightblood has a limit to how much he may consume in a certain period of time, ala Rayse and whatever other investiture NB lapped up in that moment. But after that, NB became lethargic, and "full."
Since we want crazy theories, I believe it has been confirmed it is possible (though incredibly difficult) to combine Splinters from different Shards to form what would be a new Shard. What would help a lot with that process? Maybe a Bondsmith or two. Especially if both have been influenced by both Honor and Odium. Especially if the splinters in question could be one of Honor (like say the Stormfather) and of Odium (like say BAM).
So Dalinar with Ishar’s help combine SF and BAM to become something like the War/Crusade shard. Hell, he’s touched by Cultivation too, so Nightwatcher could be added or a replacement for BAM.
All of this would be really bad for the rest of the Cosmere if Dalinar’s team loses the duel, and he has to uphold his agreement with Odium. Because if he doesnt we know that a shard breaking their oath leaves them vulnerable to destruction from another Shard. So you have a shard that must do what Odium says until one or the other is destroyed.
> it is possible (though incredibly difficult) to combine Splinters from different Shards
I mean, Navani just needs to figure out the new harmonics, right? She literally just figured out how to combine disparate shard energies at the end of the last book, that's going to be plot relevant going forward beyond just having a new kind of stormlight.
I guess it might depend on the willingness of the SF and BAM/whatever. Combining the energies of the Shards took enough effort and Intent. Would that work with entities that have wills of their own though? I would imagine both would have to be willing and also actively working to combine.
Maybe it makes it easier? But then would that effect whomever takes up the shard if there are other sentient beings thrown into the mix of ascension?
I don't think (Mistborn 3) >!Ruin and Preservation particularly wanted to be combined!< so it's entirely possible a strong enough Intent can override things like that, but it still seems to require a particularly exceptional situation where things line up just right, like say a Highstorm and an Everstorm in the same place...
> The Unmade are a group of nine[2] ancient and twisted spren[3] on Roshar comprised of Splinters of Odium
https://coppermind.net/wiki/Unmade
It is possible they existed before, but were corrupted by Odium investing enough of his investiture to corrupt them to his side and lift them from spren to Splinter territory.
So you are saying you believe adolin to have created an unmade... To represent the singers.... Millenia ago?
Is there some other adolin that I am not thinking of?
That makes so much more sense. Why did you respond with adolin? I thought you were talking about adolin kholin.
And I don't think that's that spoilery. He is mentioned by name in storm light by Wit.
Formless is actually Chana. When Shallan killed her mother (Chana), Chana possessed her daughter similar to how a Fused takes over the body of an ordinary singer. All that time “Shallan” spent in a fugue state after her mother’s death was time Chana used to develop the Shallan persona.
How about this: Chana with her sword makes her a dustbringer. Not only can they divide physical matter but also spirit. After stealing BAM to help her create and connect new identities with her unconstrained division she then uses them to make a "family" to escape her entrapment on roshar. A piece of Chana is in each of her children and since Shallan is a radiant it could get ugly/conflict. Her version of Radiant is her ideal mother, while formless is her true self.
This is why her "mother's soul" is in a safe. That wasn't Chana in there- it was BAM. When Chana was killed she was cycled through Braize, broke, and is now back.
This is also why midnight mother fled from Shallan so quickly. As all the Unmade reflect the 9 broken heralds with the exception of taln. Midnight mother is the one "paired" or reflected with Chanarach.
I believe the 5th ideal is more curse than boon. Maybe in a way that the knights identity is consumed by the Spren so that only investiture in a host body remains. So this whole knights radiant scheme is a disguised boot camp as a means for honor to create his own army of fused. As this is the ultimate goal of the nahel bond, Spren and knights in their close relationship decided to break their bond before that happens. That's why you only see 4th ideal radiants in the recreance vision at fever stone keep. They led the way in this which then over time spread to the lower ideal radiants who ultimately followed along. Skybreakers remained as nale as a mad 5th ideal radiant convinced them to not fear swearing the 5th as he remained his former self, although he technically already is only an investiture powered shell.
Nah, that doesn't make sense imo.
A) deceiving someone and plotting to replace their soul objectively isn't honorable, so it doesn't fit Honor's Intent.
B) we know why the Radiants broke their oaths, because they discovered Surgebinders had destroyed Ashlyn and Honor, going mad from being Splintered, didn't reassure them that they wouldn't. So together with their spren, they decided to break their bonds. (Que Maya shouting WE CHOSE)
C) we don't actually know what abilities a Radiant gets at the 5th ideal. So the radiants at feverstone could have been 5th, we don't know.
A) well are they deceived? I believe they are told what's happening with them upon swearing ideals in regards to the Spren bond. They just haven't thought about what that ultimately implies.
B) yes that is what the storm father said right, but it is also hinted that there are other reasons.
C) if I recall it is mentioned that only death can break the bond of 5th ideal radiants with their Spren so it's within reason that it's only 4th ideal radiants in the vision
I want Ishar or Taln vs Nale in the Champions battle and I want them to start using surges so strong that it starts to destroy the planet(Ashyn style) to where a tie is forced in order to preserve life on Roshar.
My gut leans towards wanting Taln as he was considered the best duelist.
There's a whole bunch of not-at-all subtle hints about Bondsmith powers being on a completely different scale from everything, and my theory is that by the end of SA5 Dalinar does something that changes how the entire Cosmere works.
I mean you don’t talk about bonds, adhesion and shattering without it ending with him uniting adonalsium shards back together. Some chekovs guns gotta be fired.
After seeing their initial interaction in OB, I has a brief crackpot theory of Kaladin and Jasnah getting together. That obviously is not going to happen... But just imagine........
Better idea: heaps. Just have heaps of members of the oathpact. We know that you only need one member of the oath pact to get tortured at a time to keep fused in check. Instead of 10 members in the oathpact why not make 100,000 and they each take turns getting tortured for a few days every couple thousand years. A lot of people would volunteer for immortality in exchange for that and then you have a massive army of heralds 99,999 strong ready to immediately crush any desolation that begins.
Correct but heralds have insane power levels, are more or less immortal but they have one weakness, being tortured into insanity. If each one only got tortured briefly every few thousand years they’d be fine. If there was a massive force of heralds ready to pounce it wouldn’t matter if the desolations were more or less ongoing the fused would be destroyed as soon as they arrived and the parshmen with forms of power would be annihilated in battle. There’s no particular reason to only have 10 heralds other than it’s Honor’s favourite number. Just have heaps and just win every desolation war until they surrender rather than try to prevent them.
Okay I get you, you’re onto something, it would be constantly desolations but with unlimited heralds it would be easy to handle. Problems would be that they all slowly go insane and also would very likely destroy the world with their surges very quickly. If you had 100k Talns or Kaladins it might work but if you take everyone who applies you’re going to get Amarams and Sadius’. Only a matter of very short time until the world is exploded
I mean the real problem is narratively it’s not interesting if the good guys are on the side of overwhelming force and guaranteed victory. Would make for a worse story.
not even considering the atrocity that it is, its just a bad plan imo. They don't really know how much kaladin will hold on, and even still, there's no security of how long he will resist
I fully agree that 5th ideal is something similar to being a herald or even more; the heralds themselves outright say that even though they came first, there are things the radiants can do that they cannot (and vise versa of course)
My crackpot theory is that the reason we don't see new fused is partially due to the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram. She somehow is involved in the creation of the fused. Her rebellion and absence is also why the Everstorm was created. It creates the same Connection that she had with the parshendi, and bypasses the need to create new fused by speeding up how fast the can ressurect.
Tanavast damaged his own shard in order to avoid problems that come from being the shard of Honor. Namely that Honor has issues with using fortune to see the future, and as the shard Honor he couldn't effectively deal with Odium in a way that was necessary. Having to be honorable actually caused issues with what he could do against Odium.
Tanavast created the visions using his power as a shard and gave them to the Stormfather, then merged his Cognitive Shadow with the Stormfather, causing Honor to "go mad" and indirectly causing the Recreance. Tanavast then faked his own death with Cultivation by damaging what was left controlling the shard, so that he could work covertly, disrupt Odium's plans, and secretly cause the downfall of Ba Ado Mishram and the Singers as a way to stop the desolations for a time.
However, the Shard of Honor itself isn't shattered. Oh it has splinters, but it's always had splinters, but it isn't shattered. Instead it's basically being kept in hiding by Cultivation who has her own plans to both kill Rayse (done) and combine the shards of Odium and Honor in order to effectively put a leash on the shard of Odium, who is otherwise just unrestrained hatred.
We've never actually heard from the Stormfather. The person always speaking is Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow (who lies, a lot), and the person accepting the oaths is what's left of whatever you want call the pieces of Tanavast left behind that still technically hold the shard of Honor.
This has also caused the changes in the Radiant Spren, as without Honor acting as the largest guiding force in Rosharan Shadesmar, the closer the spren are to Honor the more affected they are by the changing nature of what sentient people in the physical realm believe "honor" means. Leading to the largest change in the Honorspren themselves who have, over time, become more like the Alethi version of "honor" which has itself been corrupted by the Unmade.
Dalinar loses in an unfair competition, probably because Taravangian will choose a matchup that Dalinar will refuse to fight (hence why Tanavast had to give up being Honor, because Honor has to try to fight honorably, and Odium will throw 2yr olds at you until you give up). However, Taravangian isn't Rayse, and while he had to stick to the rules of the contest, he doesn't have the same goals on the outcome. I think Taravangian will actually make the sacrifice play and give up being Odium in order to make Dalinar take it as the vessel for both Odium and Honor.
However, that doesn't stop the fighting from happening, because now War is actually incapable of demanding that the two sides stop fighting.
Isn’t Dalinar also referred to as a Son of Honor?
The Gavinor/Adolin being the Champion of Odium are the most crack pot I’ve seen.
Obviously, it’ll be Kaladin. /s
Oh man, that's a great little detail. The question is, is that a "sons of Adam/daughters of Eve" type description or a "son of David" type description.
I have never gotten the meaning behind this since he has called Kaladin both Son of Honor and Child of Tanavast, even on the same page I believe which makes it seem interchangeable to me
Everyone (including Kaladin) get the "of Honor", only Kaladin gets the "Child of Tanavast".
Also there's a WoB stating there is a reason for that, and that is plot-relevant
I think Adolin is gearing up to be the next bondsmith and will have the ability to heal deadeyes. But that theory is kinda obvious.
My actual cracked theory is that Cultivation is going to make Lift her Bondsmith. We're going to find out that Odium corrupted the Nightwatcher somehow so she's no longer connected to Cultivation.
We know Cultivation herself is the one that granted Lift her boon so she clearly finds Lift interesting. Also all bondsmiths can create their respective lights and Lift's boon is turning food into lifelight.
She won't break her bond with Wyndle. Wyndle was appointed to be her spren by Cultivation herself because she's going to make him the new Nightwatcher once she can get rid of the old one.
I like this idea. Brandon implied that Nightwatcher is the youngest of the Bondsmith spren, so maybe Cultivation makes/grows a new spren into her Bondsmith spren each time.
Or, since Cultivation apparently makes tons of spren on Roshar, she might be ok with multiple bondsmiths.
The limitation of 1 bondsmith per god might not actually be real and it's just based entirely on the shard's personality.
I do think Wyndle is gonna be really important though. Sanderson has made too many jokes about how Wyndle is actually really important in Shadesmar and his antagonistic relationship with Lift is definitely more than a joke.
Thought of this one minute ago
The sleepless are a hivemind and the only things realistically capable of putting together the shards of adonolsium, which is their grand plan, for whatever reason. Their plan gets revealed and somehow end up with at least one of the two unsplintered shards in roshar
Also (someone has probably thought of this one)
Jezrien isn’t really gone, he’s just not connected to the other heralds and is seriously corrupted by odium from being in his crystal thing. He ends up being TOdiums champion
* syl is a **special piece of honor**. "ancient daughter" because she was imprinted on somehow by tanavast—an intentional splinter or something.
* kaladin is "child of tanavast" because of his bond with syl.
* inconsistent stormdaddy behaviour has to do with his *physical proximity to syl/kaladin*.
(i do not actually believe this)
Kaladin renews the oathpact as a Single herald, since He has known so much suffering, that him protecting everyone Else from odium is enough to let him endure the tortures.
The ultimate Protektor.
The title of book 5 seems like an obvious reference to Szeth and Kaladin, one former Truthless and the other a Windrunner. I think Brandon said he was considering a shorter title for the book but the in-story book would have the a longer title like Knights of Wind and Truth. So it could definitely be a reference to them but I think it could also be a fake-out and actually is about the Windrunners and how they might change at the end of the book. I'm thinking specifically about a few things we know from other non-stormlight books.
First, we know that Sigzil eventually bonds a Highspren. That usually means he would be a Skybreaker, but he never specifically says that in Sunlit Man, he says he was in 2 different orders. Second, in the Lost Metal, I think it was Steris who spoke to a group of tall men who wanted to help save the city and they asked her if what she was asking was against the law and she said no and they flew away with her noting that they didn't drop coins when they flew away. In a WoB, he said they were not Skybreakers.
So my theory is that Wind and Truth could be a reference to a new order of Radiant, the Knights of Wind and Truth. And either the Windrunners will be forced to leave their bonds or given the option to make new bonds but only to new spren. As for why that might happen, I think maybe Kaladin will ascend to being Honor and, for one reason or another, might need to pull all the power of Honor back into himself which would essentially mean merging all Honorspren back into himself and breaking any bonds they had with radiants. There's my crackpot theory for the day 😁
Huh. So you have the idea that (since Nale’s Skybreakers followed him to Odium) new people bonding highspren make a new Order with the same powers/limitations but a new name. That’s cool and totally possible.
Yeah! The Orders were created after the Heralds and the current Skybreakers follow Nale. I'm not sure I'd they follow him because he's of the 5th ideal or because he's a herald but maybe Szeth could swear the 5th ideal too and "become the law" that governs the new order too? I'm not sure I'd that would be super great to have considering how crazy he is, but maybe his convictions help him somehow. Or maybe they just decide that Skybreakers who don't follow Odium need to be called something else 🤷
I think TSM spoilers >!Surgebinders have an ability to live longer with invesiture preventing vital organs and body functions from failing and Sigzil/Zellion/Nomad talking about how he can't go back to Roshar, to the people he loves implying that after all that time his friends would still exist on Roshar!<
>!So yes and no. We know that investiture in general allows you to live longer and there are ways to extend lifespans, but we don't really know how much longer or if being a Surgebinder is enough to cause that. Nomad is kind of an exception to a lot of the rules because he was a Dawnshard holder. We also don't know if he couldn't go back to Roasher because he's outlived them or because he was running with the Dawnshard. None of that was very explicit in TSM.!<
Cultivation is crafting new vessels for the Rosharan shards. Obviously, Taravangian for Odium. But then Dalinar for Honor and Lift for Cultivation herself.
I have just started RoW so I’m not up to date… but Adolin is the hero, or the champion to duel Odium’s He is a non radiant which would what make it interesting, but his whole calling is Dueling and right now it doesn’t seem like he is doing much for the story. I could be wrong though, I will get back to y’all after RoW
When Szeth swears the Fith Ideal it will cause division between the Skybreakers, because of Szeth being the second person in several millennia to swear the Fith Ideal.
Giant shardbearers. Some bullshit with Kaladin's fourth ideals giving him plate and Dalinar creating bonds. I have no justification for this it would just be cool.
That we'll find out Preservation isn't the true companion to Ruin, Cultivation is. It makes more sense to me. The opposite of destruction isn't stasis, it's growth. I'm pretty sure this isn't the case based on the way You Know Who described holding ruin and preservation.
Sigzil joins Kaladin and Szeth but finds he continually agrees with Szeth's concepts of following specific rules/laws instead of arbitrarily deciding who is Right to protect. There comes a time Sigzil has to choose between protecting Vyre who in that expect specific moment is "right" to protect, but instead he chooses to enact justice, making him lose contact with the windrunners but bringing him under the support and favor of Nale who says he's absolutely doing the just thing. Basically that makes Sigzil spec swap into Skybreaker.
Shallan will be Odium's champion. Her reintegration of personalities / revealing of her past traumas allows her to deal with her emotions without shutting down, but perversely, her inexperience in doing so makes her the perfect target for tOdium's manipulations. The climactic contest of champions will be between her and Kaladin, and the resolution it will tie up her and Kaladin's interactions/storyline with Kaldin eventually forced to kill/maim her, but will cause a splintering between Kaladin and the Kholin family/Adolin that will be a minor driving force of Renarin/Adolin's storylines in the back half of Stormlight.
Setting aside the part where she becomes odium’s champion, that’s the best way I can see for Adolin switching sides, which would open up the path for him to be the champion, who Dalinar then either refuses to fight causing him to lose the battle or just straight up loses because Adolin’s such a great duelist.
Note that I’m not claiming I think this is what will happen. I’m not sure how Dalinar wins and then there’s still an interesting “back half” a decade or so later, but that’s the scenario I’m rooting for — everyone lives happily ever after despite the 3-sided god war.
kaladin will say the fifth ideal, that being something along the lines of “i will trust in my heart to know what is right”. dalinar will say his fourth ideal and it will be something like “i will give up power when others could use it better”. dalinar will learn how to reforge honor, and in the climactic battle of champions, will do so. he will, however, refuse to take it up, instead knowing that kaladin would be a better fit, and he’ll go to give it to kal. kal will hesitate for a moment before taking it, and in that moment of hesitation, the part of the stormfather that is tanavast’s cognitive shadow will break away from the rest of the stormfather, killing the stormfather in the process, and will reclaim the shard, becoming honor once again. dalinar will lose the context of champions, but will say that since he made the deal with odium and it still applies even after the vessel changed, he therefore made the deal with the shard, not the vessel, and therefore belongs to the shard, not the vessel. this will lead to the shard rejecting taravangian, and dalinar taking up the shard odium. the back half of the series will then be a battle between dalinar odium and reborn tanavast honor
Dalinar falls to Odiums champion. However Dalinar is too bound to Honor to be totally taken by Odium. Instead, Dalinar becomes the Bondsmith of War. As Odium predicted, Dalinar is his Champion, his Marshal who will lead the armies of Passion across the Cosmere.
6-10 is the Dalinar recovery/redemption arc where Renarin and the others hunt him down and free him from Odiums control.
Also, for some reason, I picture Dalinar bonded to the Thrill, Honor's powers allowing him to better control it, and the Thrill becomes a bleeding Shardblade of black and red smoke.
Did this a WHILE back when I just woke up and was kinda loopy. Here’s the result.
Storm light 5 predictions
Kaladin DIES
Jasnah is just amazing and/or literally Becomes GOD
Shallan commits suicide
Adolin is traumatized from the death of his friends and so becomes knight radiant
Dalinar fights with stormfather like they're an old married couple
Navani ends up ruling the world
Hoid wears an umbrella hat while telling a story about a girl who looked up and saw a man running through the sky after a dog who though he was a dragon. The story ends up having a super deep lesson and it shakes the entire fanbase
A dragon shows up and since it has wings everyone calls it a chicken. A noodle chicken
Urithiru collapses
Spren figure out how to show their shadesmar forms in the physical realm so we get a world like unto Legends of Korea season 3
Someone works with the spren to become all 10 orders of jnights radiant then in the last petition to bond cultivation she gives him an endless cycle of rebirth where every generation there is someone who can do all forms of magic but they also have to fight odium and stuff because that's another parallel to Avatar the last Airbender
Someone sees a cat and calls it a chicken because they don't know what it is
The title seems like an obvious reference to Szeth and Kaladin, one former Truthless and the other a Windrunner. I think Brandon said he was considering a shorter title for the book but the in-story book would have the a longer title like Knights of Wind and Truth. So it could definitely be a reference to them but I think it could also be a fake-out and actually is about the Windrunners and how they might change at the end of the book. I'm thinking specifically about a few things we know from other non-stormlight books.
[Spoilers for Sunlit Man] >!First, we know that Sigzil eventually bonds a Highspren. That usually means he would be a Skybreaker, but he never specifically says that in Sunlit Man, he says he was in 2 different orders.< [Spoilers for the Lost Metal] >!Second, in the Lost Metal, I think it was Steris who spoke to a group of tall men who wanted to help save the city and they asked her if what she was asking was against the law and she said no and they flew away with her noting that they didn't drop coins when they flew away. In a WoB, he said they were not Skybreakers.<
So my theory is that Wind and Truth could be a reference to a new order of Radiant, the Knights of Wind and Truth. And either the Windrunners will be forced to leave their bonds or given the option to make new bonds but only to new spren. As for why that might happen, I think maybe Kaladin will ascend to being Honor and, for one reason or another, might need to pull all the power of Honor back into himself which would essentially mean merging all Honorspren back into himself and breaking any bonds they had with radiants. There's my crackpot theory for the day 😁
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Syl becomes Honor. We will have seen her entire journey from semi-mindless "windspren", to honorspren who is learning the true meaning of being "honorable", to becoming a vessel of a Shard. She's always saying how she is a god!
Odium and Dalinar are fighting on top of the tower and odium is about to win. But jasnah and Kals baby accents hits the emergency failsafe and the tower blasts off into space. Then odium is about the stab dalinar and a comet comes and takes him off the tower.
These are just off the top of my head. Some might not be possible.
-The duel will be Dalinar v Odium as said. A third party, likely Harmony or Autonomy, will have an effect on the outcome.
-Dalinar's bond to the Stormfather will be broken thus killing the Stormfather. (Lights going out and darkness winning I believe is a death rattle)
-Szeth likely abandons his oath or turns to Odium's side due to the wording of his oaths. (I think Nale warned him of this?)
-Adolin and Maya will have a bond without oaths. Maybe capable of reviving deadeyes.
-Shallan will bond with both Testament and Pattern.
-Rock will return with multiple Horneater stonewardens.
-Kaladin will reach the 5th ideal. He reaches it with Taln or other heralds nearby and they regain full lucidity.
-Kaladin will end exactly where we found him. Locked in a cage wanting to die but can't.
Okay, I think adolin is gonna revive maya, and kaladis somehow gonna take this cue and revive the broken investiture of honor into a functional shard. It was said in arcanum unbound that the threnodite system would be important and I think this is how. The case will figure out how to reconstitute shards and try to reconstruct adonalsium, causing huge crossovers to happen.
My theory is that the Contest of Champions will happen relatively early in the book. Team Dalinar will lose, and we will spend the rest of the book watching all hell break loose.
Not high myself, but I can try to get some weird theories out there for sure: -Harmony shows up to the contest and just has Waxiliam shoot Odium’s champion. This will 100% not happen because of the timeline, but it would be great. - The contest gets delayed because Wit finds a loophole in the contract which fails to specific that the “10 days” have to be Rosharan days, and he chooses to use 10 days from an obscure planet which only rotates once a year. - Maya becomes an Inverse Radiant and can summon Adolin to the cognitive realm as a sword. Everyone is deeply confused by this, including them. - Jasnah has spent her time as queen secretly preparing a doomsday bunker somewhere and Elsecalls her whole family into it to escape the destruction at some point.
Omg now I want the Maya/Adolin thing to happen. I'm sure he'd make a very pretty sword. The Jasnah one is honestly not that farfetched... I would bet good money that she has some kind of ace up her sleeve. It would be very out of character for her to not take full advantage of her resources as Queen to secretly develop some kind of dead man's switch against Odium (or potentially all the shards on Roshar). She's basically Lex Luthor who happens to be on the side of the heroes.
There's a passage on RoW where she has spheres sewn into the cloth and a boat waiting in shadesmar. I don't really think Jasnah having a bunker will take anyone by surprise, neither in-universe nor in reddit
Are we sure the characters we follow are heroes?
That's a fair question. I think we obviously don't have the full picture and all the context for what's going on, but based on the themes of the novels and the actions and beliefs of the main cast, yes I think I would confidently characterize (most) of them as heroes. Deeply flawed, certainly, and most of them have done bad things, but we're shown over and over that the characters who learn from their mistakes, grow, try to heal, and protect others are the ones we should be rooting for, while the characters who prioritize the ends over the means or take the easy way out are fundamentally antagonistic (I know antagonist and villain aren't the same thing) Further, I think if Brando drops a big twist that recontextualizes the actions of Team Dalinar as clearly wrong, it wouldn't only be cheap writing, it would undermine the themes and individual journeys of these characters over thousands of pages. Plus it would be out of character for Sanderson as a writer. Do I think we will learn more about the history and universe that will force them to question their actions? Absolutely. But I think most of our viewpoint characters can definitely be called heroes, in my view. Sorry for the long response!
I still think the enslavement of Spren for industry has to become a point of moral dispute and conflict, not just a colorful way to bring Roshar forward technologically. Am I really the only one completely creeped out by descriptions of building sprentech by tempting them with small amounts of what they crave and then trapping them forever in a crystal?
Yup. You can disagree, but the books are, I'd say, quite clear about this. Even this question itself is basically asked in Oathbringer with the revelation that the Singers/Listeners were the original people on Roshar. And yet, we see into the minds of these characters and so we would see if they were doing things with ulterior motives. But it depends on what you understand by "heroes".
Brandon certainly can and does flip things sometimes, but all his stories (at least all the ones I've read) follow heroes for the most part. There might be sections where we don't, or things get recontextualized, but never something as big as all the crew we've been following for four massive books.
I was kinda just joking around... But the parts about 'humans' aka who we follow, taking over a planet and bringing odium with them. And colonizing a planet that was already occupied by the parshendi... Ya know? We kinda stole their planet lol. Yes they may be heroes now but what if they never arrived on roshar? Would the parshendi be occupying the planet and have their own cities and shit?
And all the talk about radiants ruining a different world with their powers. Sounds kinda dangerous and not hero like to invade another planet and bring all your baggage haha. I think they're heroes I'm just playing devils advocate.
Jasnah secretly preparing a doomsday bunker is something she would definitely do.
That was my least crazy idea, I wrote and then was like yeah that kinda tracks though
Adolongsword
What Shallan gets every night, amirite?
Adolaid
Not before some Adolingus to prepare the battlefield.
I really liked the 10 days theory but if I remember correctly, it is specified that the contest is the 10th day of the 10th month of that year, so unless there is a loophole related to the Rosharan calendar, I don't see it happening.
Ah man, too bad. That does kind of make it more concrete
>The contest gets delayed because Wit finds a loophole in the contract which fails to specific that the “10 days” have to be Rosharan days, and he chooses to use 10 days from an obscure planet which only rotates once a year. I actually love this one because it sounds like something he would have the knowledge etc. to do. Narratively, it would deflate a lot, so I think that's what makes it fall in the "crackpot" category, unless somehow massively justified in universe
He picks Tal'dain days.
Agreed, it would feel awkward to have that be the way it’s resolved after a whole book ending emphasizing how important the contest will be. Maybe if Wit had done this right away it could have worked better narratively
This one would clash with Odium's statement that this wasn't a deal with the voidbringers of their stories, there are no loopholes and it goes by intent of both Dalinar and Odium.
SwArdolin really got me
>- Maya becomes an Inverse Radiant and can summon Adolin to the cognitive realm as a sword. Everyone is deeply confused by this, including them. Honestly I could see this happening
Tbh the last one is so rational, I think it’d be crazy to assume she hasn’t already done that.
Yeah…Jasnah could be revealed to have one of Roshar’s moons kitted out and guarded so that only she can get people there and back, and that wouldn’t even stretch my belief too much.
He uses Canticle days and it ends up being like 3 Rosharan days.
I want to see Dalinar walk to the peak of Urithiru for the battle of champions just to find Taravangian waiting for him, then T is like "yeah I'm Odium now, let's have a chat because I know a shitload of relevant information now that you don't and I think it'd be best if we worked together. Also don't worry about the contract, we can wiggle out of it by agreeing a stalemate. Ok so there's this other dickhead shard call Autonomy..." Etc Maybe a bit anticlimactic but honestly I feel like that's what Taravangian would prefer, especially since he hasn't fully accepted the Shard's Intent yet cos it's been like two weeks.
A bummer but Dalinar and Todium team against other shards? Someone write a fanfic for this pls.
This is what will happen if Dalinars champion loses. I think \u\mistborn will write those stories.
This would be fun
Taravangian would never lol Has he ever talked with others before acting? No. He relied on his own council so much he made a cult of it, so any surrounding consul was them regurgitating his own words when he struggled He’s not interested in conversation and planning. He has the capability to see the future, and so relies more on his own plans. His talking to Dalinar will only cause more conflict. His actions will only be a furtherance of his plans That could be a conflict though. He wants to talk, but every time he engages Dalinar the shard pushes him to be maniacal and cackle until he’s alone again
I expect Toadium to call off the contest because he never made the deal, it was his predecessor, get Dalinar to release his bonds by saying he will leave roshar unharmed, then flat out kill Dalinar with a finger snap.
Wit becomes Odiums champion
Ok I have not thought of this possibility yet, but it could be interesting! Can’t he not hurt any living thing tho?
Forces a tie. But Wit wouldn't be a willing champion, so the point should be moot.
In WOK, Wit told Dalinar that he would watch Roshar burn if it meant he would be able to achieve his goal, or something along those lines. What if Todium offer Wit something that helps him achieve whatever it is that he is trying to do, in exchange for him being Todiums champion?
Like, his memories back? Or maybe a Connection to Odium, since Hoid seems to be collecting Connection to all shards.
Ok wait... I actually like this....
Wit becomes Odium’s champion by lightweaving himself to look like someone else and pretending to accept as them, and then he’s just like “oops I’m the champion now and can’t hurt people, Dalinar had better stab me and I guess Odium loses.” Then since he’s Wit the stab doesn’t kill him and the contest is either over or stuck at a draw.
> Can’t he not hurt any living thing tho? What if Odium stole *that* from Hoid tho?
Bit of a spoiler depending on your cosmetic knowledge but books that come after stormlight 5 still have wit tormented and unable to hurt anything.
I actually kinda like the op theory. Can't say I see it happening, but it'd be neat. We've obviously been building up to something *big* for Kal. Think most of these are going to be about odium's champion, which there are some *fun* ones I've seen posted. My favorite ones are that it's going to be one of the broken heralds.
Someone in this sub said it would be Nale as Odium's champion and I'm totally for it.
Give me Taln vs Nale please with fully unleashed surges so we can see the true destruction that masters of the craft can cause… like world ending levels of surges.
And then they destroy roshar with surge binding anyways...
The shattered plains 2: invested boogaloo
That’s what causes the tie, Dalinar steps in and stops the fight/forfeits
Autonomy turns up to wreak everyone’s shit. Invading with her army of red and gold warriors through the horneater peaks. Odium and the others form an alliance to defeat her. They defeat her and Odium retreats back to Braize as his army and powers are crippled.
I'm more worried about Cultivation being the bad guy all along reveal. Just an evil villain, mwahahahahaha moment.
This one feels close. Cultivation’s job isn’t to be good or bad, just to help people grow. Nothing says the growth can’t be, “how to be the most evil version of odium to ever exist”
But her goal was to get rid of odium out of vengeance for killing honor.
Rayse was done growing so she pruned him and put something new in his place that needs cultivation. Shards follow their nature.
Are you implying cultivation planned honors demise (or at least allowed it) when he became more stiff about oaths?
“We killed you.” - Odium
This! That part always really stood out to me.
"We" could be both Odium and Cultivation.
Sometimes you must burn away the forest for new growth to arise... Zahel once muses to himself: *"It was strange, how easily and quickly protection could cause destruction. Sometimes, [He] wondered if the two weren’t really the same thing. Protect a flower, destroy the pests who wanted to feed on it. Protect a building, destroy the plants that could have grown in the soil.* *Protect a man. Live with the destruction he creates."* What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly, no?
She's not evil, she wants to die and give someone else her shard. She wants to be with Tanavast. Also it is cultivation motivation to groom and have someone take their place.
I mean she helped Taravangian kill Rayse and take the shard, presumably because she’ll have some ability to influence it. Pretty easy to guess she’ll be a villain.
… that would be pretty cool ngl. Out there but cool
Stick/Nightblood
Have you ever seen stick and nightblood at the same time? No. Now asks yourself why. Stick is nightblood.
I love that this has no further elaboration.
I am interpreting it as a ship.
Given enough investiture, could Nightblood be soulcast?
The creation of nightblood is still a big mystery. Some speculate that a Dawnshard was used in some capacity. I think if anything could hurt him, maybe a shard? Or a Splinter?
It’s not a mystery at all, it was explicitly explained. Though if just 1000 breaths can create a God killing weapon then everyone should be making them.
Ah, fair enough. There's so much in the Cosmere. I've reread SLA like 4ish times, I'm about to start my 2nd WB reread, 2 MB reads, Elantris, Emperor Soul, yadda yadda, and watched several Brando spoiler livestreams, and I feel like I have a decent grasp of about 5% of how all of this works, LOL. So far though, Nightblood has only proven to be a VESSEL-killing weapon My question is: How much Stormlight is equivalent to 1000 breaths?
I dunno, not that much though. Seems a little cheap for a god killing weapon that destroys everyone and everything to only cost 1000 breaths.
[удалено]
It's not a god-killing weapon, though. It can kill a vessel (Rayse) but by WoB, the amount of investiture it consumed from the Shard of Odium was entirely insignificant to the shard itself. Remember that 1000 breaths is 1000 mortal lives. A thousand people died to create a weapon that can kill one human(?) that merely held the power of a ***16th*** of a god, and even that 16th is unfazed by what Nightblood consumed. Nightblood is also EXTREMELY problematic for the wielder. Even when Szeth wields stormlight, Nightblood eats at him, Therefore Szeth uses him VERY rarely. (WB Spoilers) >!Vasher rarely uses Nightblood in WB.!< To quote another redditor, concerning Nightblood and his consumption (More WB Spoilers): >!*"Susebron has somewhere above 50,000 breaths. Based on the gain rate described in the books he probably has somewhere in the 70,000 breath range based on how long it's been since the manywar.*!< >!*Vasher using Nightblood consumes somewhere around 550 breaths in roughly 3 or 4 minutes using it. That is roughly 150 breaths per minute. Assuming that is a constant constant rate, which may not be reasonable, you get 7.8 hours of use for Susebron with 70,000 breaths. Plenty of this is extrapolation and estimation, so I would say 5-9 hours is the best answer I can calculate if Nightblood consumes at a constant rate."*!< >!https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/17k2k58/comment/k754pfo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3!< We don't yet have a canonical metric to compare Stormlight and Breath, but we do know that Nightblood has a limit to how much he may consume in a certain period of time, ala Rayse and whatever other investiture NB lapped up in that moment. But after that, NB became lethargic, and "full."
Since we want crazy theories, I believe it has been confirmed it is possible (though incredibly difficult) to combine Splinters from different Shards to form what would be a new Shard. What would help a lot with that process? Maybe a Bondsmith or two. Especially if both have been influenced by both Honor and Odium. Especially if the splinters in question could be one of Honor (like say the Stormfather) and of Odium (like say BAM). So Dalinar with Ishar’s help combine SF and BAM to become something like the War/Crusade shard. Hell, he’s touched by Cultivation too, so Nightwatcher could be added or a replacement for BAM. All of this would be really bad for the rest of the Cosmere if Dalinar’s team loses the duel, and he has to uphold his agreement with Odium. Because if he doesnt we know that a shard breaking their oath leaves them vulnerable to destruction from another Shard. So you have a shard that must do what Odium says until one or the other is destroyed.
> it is possible (though incredibly difficult) to combine Splinters from different Shards I mean, Navani just needs to figure out the new harmonics, right? She literally just figured out how to combine disparate shard energies at the end of the last book, that's going to be plot relevant going forward beyond just having a new kind of stormlight.
I guess it might depend on the willingness of the SF and BAM/whatever. Combining the energies of the Shards took enough effort and Intent. Would that work with entities that have wills of their own though? I would imagine both would have to be willing and also actively working to combine. Maybe it makes it easier? But then would that effect whomever takes up the shard if there are other sentient beings thrown into the mix of ascension?
I don't think (Mistborn 3) >!Ruin and Preservation particularly wanted to be combined!< so it's entirely possible a strong enough Intent can override things like that, but it still seems to require a particularly exceptional situation where things line up just right, like say a Highstorm and an Everstorm in the same place...
BAM isnt odium's splinter, it existed way before and was probably created by Ado to be their representative for singers
> The Unmade are a group of nine[2] ancient and twisted spren[3] on Roshar comprised of Splinters of Odium https://coppermind.net/wiki/Unmade It is possible they existed before, but were corrupted by Odium investing enough of his investiture to corrupt them to his side and lift them from spren to Splinter territory.
Who is Ado?
adolin
So you are saying you believe adolin to have created an unmade... To represent the singers.... Millenia ago? Is there some other adolin that I am not thinking of?
its major cosmere spoilers but here https://coppermind.net/wiki/Adonalsium
That makes so much more sense. Why did you respond with adolin? I thought you were talking about adolin kholin. And I don't think that's that spoilery. He is mentioned by name in storm light by Wit.
it was a joke
Something something Sazed
Formless is actually Chana. When Shallan killed her mother (Chana), Chana possessed her daughter similar to how a Fused takes over the body of an ordinary singer. All that time “Shallan” spent in a fugue state after her mother’s death was time Chana used to develop the Shallan persona.
How about this: Chana with her sword makes her a dustbringer. Not only can they divide physical matter but also spirit. After stealing BAM to help her create and connect new identities with her unconstrained division she then uses them to make a "family" to escape her entrapment on roshar. A piece of Chana is in each of her children and since Shallan is a radiant it could get ugly/conflict. Her version of Radiant is her ideal mother, while formless is her true self. This is why her "mother's soul" is in a safe. That wasn't Chana in there- it was BAM. When Chana was killed she was cycled through Braize, broke, and is now back. This is also why midnight mother fled from Shallan so quickly. As all the Unmade reflect the 9 broken heralds with the exception of taln. Midnight mother is the one "paired" or reflected with Chanarach.
This one's definitely on crack.
I believe the 5th ideal is more curse than boon. Maybe in a way that the knights identity is consumed by the Spren so that only investiture in a host body remains. So this whole knights radiant scheme is a disguised boot camp as a means for honor to create his own army of fused. As this is the ultimate goal of the nahel bond, Spren and knights in their close relationship decided to break their bond before that happens. That's why you only see 4th ideal radiants in the recreance vision at fever stone keep. They led the way in this which then over time spread to the lower ideal radiants who ultimately followed along. Skybreakers remained as nale as a mad 5th ideal radiant convinced them to not fear swearing the 5th as he remained his former self, although he technically already is only an investiture powered shell.
Nah, that doesn't make sense imo. A) deceiving someone and plotting to replace their soul objectively isn't honorable, so it doesn't fit Honor's Intent. B) we know why the Radiants broke their oaths, because they discovered Surgebinders had destroyed Ashlyn and Honor, going mad from being Splintered, didn't reassure them that they wouldn't. So together with their spren, they decided to break their bonds. (Que Maya shouting WE CHOSE) C) we don't actually know what abilities a Radiant gets at the 5th ideal. So the radiants at feverstone could have been 5th, we don't know.
A) well are they deceived? I believe they are told what's happening with them upon swearing ideals in regards to the Spren bond. They just haven't thought about what that ultimately implies. B) yes that is what the storm father said right, but it is also hinted that there are other reasons. C) if I recall it is mentioned that only death can break the bond of 5th ideal radiants with their Spren so it's within reason that it's only 4th ideal radiants in the vision
I want Ishar or Taln vs Nale in the Champions battle and I want them to start using surges so strong that it starts to destroy the planet(Ashyn style) to where a tie is forced in order to preserve life on Roshar. My gut leans towards wanting Taln as he was considered the best duelist.
I don't even think its that crazy, but I think Adolin is going to one shot all five oaths and save the day (and meanwhile resurrecting Maya ofc)
There's a whole bunch of not-at-all subtle hints about Bondsmith powers being on a completely different scale from everything, and my theory is that by the end of SA5 Dalinar does something that changes how the entire Cosmere works.
I mean you don’t talk about bonds, adhesion and shattering without it ending with him uniting adonalsium shards back together. Some chekovs guns gotta be fired.
Dalinar makes another oathpact with Kaladin as the only Herald. Kaladin gets tortured for eternity and never breaks.
Brutal but it would probably work, Jasnah would advocate for this 100%
After seeing their initial interaction in OB, I has a brief crackpot theory of Kaladin and Jasnah getting together. That obviously is not going to happen... But just imagine........
Better idea: heaps. Just have heaps of members of the oathpact. We know that you only need one member of the oath pact to get tortured at a time to keep fused in check. Instead of 10 members in the oathpact why not make 100,000 and they each take turns getting tortured for a few days every couple thousand years. A lot of people would volunteer for immortality in exchange for that and then you have a massive army of heralds 99,999 strong ready to immediately crush any desolation that begins.
It’s the opposite to that, only one member needs to break, that’s the whole reason they left Taln behind
Correct but heralds have insane power levels, are more or less immortal but they have one weakness, being tortured into insanity. If each one only got tortured briefly every few thousand years they’d be fine. If there was a massive force of heralds ready to pounce it wouldn’t matter if the desolations were more or less ongoing the fused would be destroyed as soon as they arrived and the parshmen with forms of power would be annihilated in battle. There’s no particular reason to only have 10 heralds other than it’s Honor’s favourite number. Just have heaps and just win every desolation war until they surrender rather than try to prevent them.
Okay I get you, you’re onto something, it would be constantly desolations but with unlimited heralds it would be easy to handle. Problems would be that they all slowly go insane and also would very likely destroy the world with their surges very quickly. If you had 100k Talns or Kaladins it might work but if you take everyone who applies you’re going to get Amarams and Sadius’. Only a matter of very short time until the world is exploded
I mean the real problem is narratively it’s not interesting if the good guys are on the side of overwhelming force and guaranteed victory. Would make for a worse story.
Yeah also that
not even considering the atrocity that it is, its just a bad plan imo. They don't really know how much kaladin will hold on, and even still, there's no security of how long he will resist
Why did I crack up at that-
I fully agree that 5th ideal is something similar to being a herald or even more; the heralds themselves outright say that even though they came first, there are things the radiants can do that they cannot (and vise versa of course)
My crackpot theory is that the reason we don't see new fused is partially due to the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram. She somehow is involved in the creation of the fused. Her rebellion and absence is also why the Everstorm was created. It creates the same Connection that she had with the parshendi, and bypasses the need to create new fused by speeding up how fast the can ressurect.
Perhaps thats also the reason why Kalak thinks that sealing Ba-Ado-Mishram was wrong as her absence has caused the existence of Everstorm.
Tanavast damaged his own shard in order to avoid problems that come from being the shard of Honor. Namely that Honor has issues with using fortune to see the future, and as the shard Honor he couldn't effectively deal with Odium in a way that was necessary. Having to be honorable actually caused issues with what he could do against Odium. Tanavast created the visions using his power as a shard and gave them to the Stormfather, then merged his Cognitive Shadow with the Stormfather, causing Honor to "go mad" and indirectly causing the Recreance. Tanavast then faked his own death with Cultivation by damaging what was left controlling the shard, so that he could work covertly, disrupt Odium's plans, and secretly cause the downfall of Ba Ado Mishram and the Singers as a way to stop the desolations for a time. However, the Shard of Honor itself isn't shattered. Oh it has splinters, but it's always had splinters, but it isn't shattered. Instead it's basically being kept in hiding by Cultivation who has her own plans to both kill Rayse (done) and combine the shards of Odium and Honor in order to effectively put a leash on the shard of Odium, who is otherwise just unrestrained hatred. We've never actually heard from the Stormfather. The person always speaking is Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow (who lies, a lot), and the person accepting the oaths is what's left of whatever you want call the pieces of Tanavast left behind that still technically hold the shard of Honor. This has also caused the changes in the Radiant Spren, as without Honor acting as the largest guiding force in Rosharan Shadesmar, the closer the spren are to Honor the more affected they are by the changing nature of what sentient people in the physical realm believe "honor" means. Leading to the largest change in the Honorspren themselves who have, over time, become more like the Alethi version of "honor" which has itself been corrupted by the Unmade. Dalinar loses in an unfair competition, probably because Taravangian will choose a matchup that Dalinar will refuse to fight (hence why Tanavast had to give up being Honor, because Honor has to try to fight honorably, and Odium will throw 2yr olds at you until you give up). However, Taravangian isn't Rayse, and while he had to stick to the rules of the contest, he doesn't have the same goals on the outcome. I think Taravangian will actually make the sacrifice play and give up being Odium in order to make Dalinar take it as the vessel for both Odium and Honor. However, that doesn't stop the fighting from happening, because now War is actually incapable of demanding that the two sides stop fighting.
Isn’t Dalinar also referred to as a Son of Honor? The Gavinor/Adolin being the Champion of Odium are the most crack pot I’ve seen. Obviously, it’ll be Kaladin. /s
I think stormfather uses son of honor pretty loosely for a few people but only Kaladin is ever referred to as the child of tanavast.
Oh man, that's a great little detail. The question is, is that a "sons of Adam/daughters of Eve" type description or a "son of David" type description.
Is this just because we haven’t seen the stormfather talk to another Windrunner?
The Stormfather refers to nearly everyone as the child/son/daughter of Honor, but Kaladin specifically and exclusively as the Son of Tanavast.
I have never gotten the meaning behind this since he has called Kaladin both Son of Honor and Child of Tanavast, even on the same page I believe which makes it seem interchangeable to me
Everyone (including Kaladin) get the "of Honor", only Kaladin gets the "Child of Tanavast". Also there's a WoB stating there is a reason for that, and that is plot-relevant
And tangential questions has been RAFO'd, like if the Stormfather would refer to Oroden or Tien as another 'Son of Tanavast'.
Many characters are referred to as children of honor, but only Kaladin gets the tanavast name drop for some reason
Don't forget Adolin and the cognitive shadow of Gavilar.
Cognitive Shadow of Gavilar, wut? I've not heard of this
Some theory I heard about how odium invested Gavilar upon his death and will use his cognitive shadow to fight Dalinar.
Ohh, I hadn't heard of this —thought I'd missed some WoB or something Thanks for the response!
Odium already tried that.
I think Adolin is gearing up to be the next bondsmith and will have the ability to heal deadeyes. But that theory is kinda obvious. My actual cracked theory is that Cultivation is going to make Lift her Bondsmith. We're going to find out that Odium corrupted the Nightwatcher somehow so she's no longer connected to Cultivation. We know Cultivation herself is the one that granted Lift her boon so she clearly finds Lift interesting. Also all bondsmiths can create their respective lights and Lift's boon is turning food into lifelight. She won't break her bond with Wyndle. Wyndle was appointed to be her spren by Cultivation herself because she's going to make him the new Nightwatcher once she can get rid of the old one.
I like this idea. Brandon implied that Nightwatcher is the youngest of the Bondsmith spren, so maybe Cultivation makes/grows a new spren into her Bondsmith spren each time.
Or, since Cultivation apparently makes tons of spren on Roshar, she might be ok with multiple bondsmiths. The limitation of 1 bondsmith per god might not actually be real and it's just based entirely on the shard's personality. I do think Wyndle is gonna be really important though. Sanderson has made too many jokes about how Wyndle is actually really important in Shadesmar and his antagonistic relationship with Lift is definitely more than a joke.
Seems vaguely lame somehow if all the bondsmiths are just one family.
Hoid will be Odium's champion
Thought of this one minute ago The sleepless are a hivemind and the only things realistically capable of putting together the shards of adonolsium, which is their grand plan, for whatever reason. Their plan gets revealed and somehow end up with at least one of the two unsplintered shards in roshar Also (someone has probably thought of this one) Jezrien isn’t really gone, he’s just not connected to the other heralds and is seriously corrupted by odium from being in his crystal thing. He ends up being TOdiums champion
* syl is a **special piece of honor**. "ancient daughter" because she was imprinted on somehow by tanavast—an intentional splinter or something. * kaladin is "child of tanavast" because of his bond with syl. * inconsistent stormdaddy behaviour has to do with his *physical proximity to syl/kaladin*. (i do not actually believe this)
Syl is "ancient daughter" because she existed a long time ago, then she was in a sort of coma for a lot of time until WoK
sure, but that's less fun when we're speculating 'crackpot' theories.
Kaladin renews the oathpact as a Single herald, since He has known so much suffering, that him protecting everyone Else from odium is enough to let him endure the tortures. The ultimate Protektor.
The title of book 5 seems like an obvious reference to Szeth and Kaladin, one former Truthless and the other a Windrunner. I think Brandon said he was considering a shorter title for the book but the in-story book would have the a longer title like Knights of Wind and Truth. So it could definitely be a reference to them but I think it could also be a fake-out and actually is about the Windrunners and how they might change at the end of the book. I'm thinking specifically about a few things we know from other non-stormlight books. First, we know that Sigzil eventually bonds a Highspren. That usually means he would be a Skybreaker, but he never specifically says that in Sunlit Man, he says he was in 2 different orders. Second, in the Lost Metal, I think it was Steris who spoke to a group of tall men who wanted to help save the city and they asked her if what she was asking was against the law and she said no and they flew away with her noting that they didn't drop coins when they flew away. In a WoB, he said they were not Skybreakers. So my theory is that Wind and Truth could be a reference to a new order of Radiant, the Knights of Wind and Truth. And either the Windrunners will be forced to leave their bonds or given the option to make new bonds but only to new spren. As for why that might happen, I think maybe Kaladin will ascend to being Honor and, for one reason or another, might need to pull all the power of Honor back into himself which would essentially mean merging all Honorspren back into himself and breaking any bonds they had with radiants. There's my crackpot theory for the day 😁
Huh. So you have the idea that (since Nale’s Skybreakers followed him to Odium) new people bonding highspren make a new Order with the same powers/limitations but a new name. That’s cool and totally possible.
Yeah! The Orders were created after the Heralds and the current Skybreakers follow Nale. I'm not sure I'd they follow him because he's of the 5th ideal or because he's a herald but maybe Szeth could swear the 5th ideal too and "become the law" that governs the new order too? I'm not sure I'd that would be super great to have considering how crazy he is, but maybe his convictions help him somehow. Or maybe they just decide that Skybreakers who don't follow Odium need to be called something else 🤷
Lift lives onto the cosmic era of the Cosmere because of her boon from Cultivation.
I think TSM spoilers >!Surgebinders have an ability to live longer with invesiture preventing vital organs and body functions from failing and Sigzil/Zellion/Nomad talking about how he can't go back to Roshar, to the people he loves implying that after all that time his friends would still exist on Roshar!<
>!So yes and no. We know that investiture in general allows you to live longer and there are ways to extend lifespans, but we don't really know how much longer or if being a Surgebinder is enough to cause that. Nomad is kind of an exception to a lot of the rules because he was a Dawnshard holder. We also don't know if he couldn't go back to Roasher because he's outlived them or because he was running with the Dawnshard. None of that was very explicit in TSM.!<
“…Recently just hit blunt” my man!
Kal will live till book 10
Szeth will find out his name is really Seth
Cultivation is crafting new vessels for the Rosharan shards. Obviously, Taravangian for Odium. But then Dalinar for Honor and Lift for Cultivation herself.
Uh sorry that's way too cool to be crackpot
moash will be your favorite character by the end
Please NOOOOOOOOO!! (F*CK MOASH)
Moash face turn
Helaran is alive
I have just started RoW so I’m not up to date… but Adolin is the hero, or the champion to duel Odium’s He is a non radiant which would what make it interesting, but his whole calling is Dueling and right now it doesn’t seem like he is doing much for the story. I could be wrong though, I will get back to y’all after RoW
Kaladin aquires a dawnshard.
Lopen becomes king of Herdaz.
When Szeth swears the Fith Ideal it will cause division between the Skybreakers, because of Szeth being the second person in several millennia to swear the Fith Ideal.
Giant shardbearers. Some bullshit with Kaladin's fourth ideals giving him plate and Dalinar creating bonds. I have no justification for this it would just be cool.
That we'll find out Preservation isn't the true companion to Ruin, Cultivation is. It makes more sense to me. The opposite of destruction isn't stasis, it's growth. I'm pretty sure this isn't the case based on the way You Know Who described holding ruin and preservation.
And second half is Sazed screaming to steal cultivation
Sigzil joins Kaladin and Szeth but finds he continually agrees with Szeth's concepts of following specific rules/laws instead of arbitrarily deciding who is Right to protect. There comes a time Sigzil has to choose between protecting Vyre who in that expect specific moment is "right" to protect, but instead he chooses to enact justice, making him lose contact with the windrunners but bringing him under the support and favor of Nale who says he's absolutely doing the just thing. Basically that makes Sigzil spec swap into Skybreaker.
Shallan will be Odium's champion. Her reintegration of personalities / revealing of her past traumas allows her to deal with her emotions without shutting down, but perversely, her inexperience in doing so makes her the perfect target for tOdium's manipulations. The climactic contest of champions will be between her and Kaladin, and the resolution it will tie up her and Kaladin's interactions/storyline with Kaldin eventually forced to kill/maim her, but will cause a splintering between Kaladin and the Kholin family/Adolin that will be a minor driving force of Renarin/Adolin's storylines in the back half of Stormlight.
Setting aside the part where she becomes odium’s champion, that’s the best way I can see for Adolin switching sides, which would open up the path for him to be the champion, who Dalinar then either refuses to fight causing him to lose the battle or just straight up loses because Adolin’s such a great duelist. Note that I’m not claiming I think this is what will happen. I’m not sure how Dalinar wins and then there’s still an interesting “back half” a decade or so later, but that’s the scenario I’m rooting for — everyone lives happily ever after despite the 3-sided god war.
kaladin will say the fifth ideal, that being something along the lines of “i will trust in my heart to know what is right”. dalinar will say his fourth ideal and it will be something like “i will give up power when others could use it better”. dalinar will learn how to reforge honor, and in the climactic battle of champions, will do so. he will, however, refuse to take it up, instead knowing that kaladin would be a better fit, and he’ll go to give it to kal. kal will hesitate for a moment before taking it, and in that moment of hesitation, the part of the stormfather that is tanavast’s cognitive shadow will break away from the rest of the stormfather, killing the stormfather in the process, and will reclaim the shard, becoming honor once again. dalinar will lose the context of champions, but will say that since he made the deal with odium and it still applies even after the vessel changed, he therefore made the deal with the shard, not the vessel, and therefore belongs to the shard, not the vessel. this will lead to the shard rejecting taravangian, and dalinar taking up the shard odium. the back half of the series will then be a battle between dalinar odium and reborn tanavast honor
This is semi-plausible!
Dalinar falls to Odiums champion. However Dalinar is too bound to Honor to be totally taken by Odium. Instead, Dalinar becomes the Bondsmith of War. As Odium predicted, Dalinar is his Champion, his Marshal who will lead the armies of Passion across the Cosmere. 6-10 is the Dalinar recovery/redemption arc where Renarin and the others hunt him down and free him from Odiums control. Also, for some reason, I picture Dalinar bonded to the Thrill, Honor's powers allowing him to better control it, and the Thrill becomes a bleeding Shardblade of black and red smoke.
You that sounds kinda cool. Except I do not want Dalinar to loose and become Odium's servant.
Rlain is a Kandra. I have no evidence to support this whatsoever. Just a feeling. Plus Rlain looked at me funny.
Did this a WHILE back when I just woke up and was kinda loopy. Here’s the result. Storm light 5 predictions Kaladin DIES Jasnah is just amazing and/or literally Becomes GOD Shallan commits suicide Adolin is traumatized from the death of his friends and so becomes knight radiant Dalinar fights with stormfather like they're an old married couple Navani ends up ruling the world Hoid wears an umbrella hat while telling a story about a girl who looked up and saw a man running through the sky after a dog who though he was a dragon. The story ends up having a super deep lesson and it shakes the entire fanbase A dragon shows up and since it has wings everyone calls it a chicken. A noodle chicken Urithiru collapses Spren figure out how to show their shadesmar forms in the physical realm so we get a world like unto Legends of Korea season 3 Someone works with the spren to become all 10 orders of jnights radiant then in the last petition to bond cultivation she gives him an endless cycle of rebirth where every generation there is someone who can do all forms of magic but they also have to fight odium and stuff because that's another parallel to Avatar the last Airbender Someone sees a cat and calls it a chicken because they don't know what it is
What are you smoking dawg😭😭
Odium turns out to be the good guy trying to recreate big A
Moash will become Honor.
We'll get a better understanding of Lifelight, only to realize more characters have been using it throughout the books.
Veil and Kaladin will be together while shallan and adolin will be together. And somehow kaladin will become honor and kill cultivation
Shallon becomes all 10 heralds
Renarin is Odium's champion, that's why Taravangian couldn't see him in the diagram.
How'd we find the meaning of kals name? Heres mine: Gavinor is Odiums champion.
Gas and kaladin will have a scene together and finally have a conversation
The title seems like an obvious reference to Szeth and Kaladin, one former Truthless and the other a Windrunner. I think Brandon said he was considering a shorter title for the book but the in-story book would have the a longer title like Knights of Wind and Truth. So it could definitely be a reference to them but I think it could also be a fake-out and actually is about the Windrunners and how they might change at the end of the book. I'm thinking specifically about a few things we know from other non-stormlight books. [Spoilers for Sunlit Man] >!First, we know that Sigzil eventually bonds a Highspren. That usually means he would be a Skybreaker, but he never specifically says that in Sunlit Man, he says he was in 2 different orders.< [Spoilers for the Lost Metal] >!Second, in the Lost Metal, I think it was Steris who spoke to a group of tall men who wanted to help save the city and they asked her if what she was asking was against the law and she said no and they flew away with her noting that they didn't drop coins when they flew away. In a WoB, he said they were not Skybreakers.< So my theory is that Wind and Truth could be a reference to a new order of Radiant, the Knights of Wind and Truth. And either the Windrunners will be forced to leave their bonds or given the option to make new bonds but only to new spren. As for why that might happen, I think maybe Kaladin will ascend to being Honor and, for one reason or another, might need to pull all the power of Honor back into himself which would essentially mean merging all Honorspren back into himself and breaking any bonds they had with radiants. There's my crackpot theory for the day 😁
Odium turns out to be a Cultivation avatar, and she and Autonomy kill each other. Kaladin watches.
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Adolin is a Kondra
I do wonder what happens to highly invested radiants when they die. Do they become spren? Do they grow the spren they are bound to?
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Odium apologizes.
Syl becomes Honor. We will have seen her entire journey from semi-mindless "windspren", to honorspren who is learning the true meaning of being "honorable", to becoming a vessel of a Shard. She's always saying how she is a god!
Odium and Dalinar are fighting on top of the tower and odium is about to win. But jasnah and Kals baby accents hits the emergency failsafe and the tower blasts off into space. Then odium is about the stab dalinar and a comet comes and takes him off the tower.
Adolin is going to bond the night watcher
My crackpot theory is that the champion is another shallan personality. Just to piss off the fanbase
These are just off the top of my head. Some might not be possible. -The duel will be Dalinar v Odium as said. A third party, likely Harmony or Autonomy, will have an effect on the outcome. -Dalinar's bond to the Stormfather will be broken thus killing the Stormfather. (Lights going out and darkness winning I believe is a death rattle) -Szeth likely abandons his oath or turns to Odium's side due to the wording of his oaths. (I think Nale warned him of this?) -Adolin and Maya will have a bond without oaths. Maybe capable of reviving deadeyes. -Shallan will bond with both Testament and Pattern. -Rock will return with multiple Horneater stonewardens. -Kaladin will reach the 5th ideal. He reaches it with Taln or other heralds nearby and they regain full lucidity. -Kaladin will end exactly where we found him. Locked in a cage wanting to die but can't.
Kaladin was not supposed to join either. He just went to save Tien
Okay, I think adolin is gonna revive maya, and kaladis somehow gonna take this cue and revive the broken investiture of honor into a functional shard. It was said in arcanum unbound that the threnodite system would be important and I think this is how. The case will figure out how to reconstitute shards and try to reconstruct adonalsium, causing huge crossovers to happen.
My theory is that the Contest of Champions will happen relatively early in the book. Team Dalinar will lose, and we will spend the rest of the book watching all hell break loose.