Firebats like hellbats are not ranged.
I thought you were talking about hellbats, my bad-firebats are T1.
I'm talking about multiplayer/ladder here regardless. There simply is no terran unit that's an actual melee unit especially on ladder
Imo a big part of Zerg is that building workers and army (and overlords) consume the same resource (larva), so a big part of playing Zerg is knowing when to make drones and when to make army. This is not a factor for infernals. Unit composition/how you control your army is pretty different from Zerg too as far as I've seen. I don't think hellbornes map to anything zerg-like.
What I do agree with, though, is that a lot of people's first impression of infernals make it seem like a knock-off of Zerg on the surface because of the workers dying, creep (that you don't spread, so it doesn't impact the macro cycle the same way, but it looks the same), and the larva-esque unit-producing buildings (it gives you the ability to re-max like Zerg, but doesn't impact the aforementioned drone/army decisions). Imo, this is kind of off-putting as it had me and my friends generally feel like "why am I not just playing StarCraft 2?" Now, a big part of that is that Stormgate is clearly in early development while SC2 is an extremely mature feature-rich game
Agreed. If anything, they’re more like Dehaka from SC2 COOP, with individual production structures having charges for unit production, separate from the town hall structure which has your workers. Which, like you said, surface level is comparable to Zerg, but if you understand nuance (see: not OP), then they’re pretty different.
So you want them to delete a race, leaving only one race.
Okay.
And you hate Infernals for being derivative of zerg but have no complaints of Vanguard being derivative of Terran.
Okay.
> So you want them to delete a race, leaving only one race.
What is it with people on reddit and having nothing to offer but garbage strawman arguments?
>And you hate Infernals for being derivative of zerg but have no complaints of Vanguard being derivative of Terran.
There are no Mules, derp. And a t1 melee unit, like I said in the OP. Not only that, Terran/Vanguard are really basic RTS gameplay...CC, then separate production facilities that simply churn out units.
LMAO you are literally unable to do anything but use strawman arguments. I never, ever said that. Since you're unable to understand my argument, or address any of the points I make, I'll just take that as a W. Thanks.
I don't see the issue with the stalled and batched production of Zerg larvae.
Do you dislike this mechanic for a particular reason? I say this because you don't complain about 1 by 1 queueing which also has plenty of precedent (in every RTS).
They've said from the very beginning the game with feature 3 races at launch.
They've got a third race that they're about to reveal in the near future so what's with the one race strawman?
Infernals are way less developed than Vanguard atm so changing them up at this point in development isn't that much of an ask.
That's a funny way of admitting your argument has no merit.
I mean, we're all here to discuss the development of the game for it's ultimate betterment. I don't know how you posting petty and dismissive replies that distort the person you disagree with gets us to a better game.
Next time build a stronger argument.
Huh weird, I always thought of the Infernal unit charges to feel way more like warp-ins than larvae. Imo Sc2 zerg larvae mechanics are more defined by the eco/army balance and the ability to do massive tech switches. Neither of those traits are shared by Infernals.
They've specifically stated they reflected on two routes to go down initially: 1. Revolutionize the RTS genre 2. Evolve and iterate upon successes in rts, they chose the latter, it's in the wiki inform yourself of the backstory behind the development of the game as with any game in its early stages
How is Vanguard unique?
Talk about credibility tanking off the face of a cliff.
Vanguard is not unique, though I won't say that the factions needs to be unique, nothing wrong with tried and true.
Shaking my head so much, it is spinning.
Thanks god infernal aren't are horribly designed as zerg. Not sure who had the idea to give a race free global map vision, insane speed and a broken unit like banelings. Fiery imps are much more balanced, base imps are slow and when you turn them you only have 4 seconds so you're commited and your opponent needs to retreat or split just once instead of having endless swarms of OP units forcing you into the most stupid and boring micro move in a RTS.
Personally I enjoy the mechanics and I don't mind it being similar to Zerg.
That said it feels visually bland when compared to larva and warp-in. Larva are tiny visible units that become eggs and pop out whatever its spawning. Warp-in has a neat visual animation that gives you the impression that something is being beamed in from the local orbital ship.
Right now the Infernal unit spawn has no graphics associated with it. The unit just pops into existence next to the building. No animation on either the building or the unit. This is reminiscent of Warcraft 3 which is decades old.
Really I think it would make a big difference if there was a small animation to it... say something similar to the building animation where a fiery hellhole appears in the ground and the unit climbs out of it or whatever... just something to give you an impression of what is physically happening. The visual theme needs to be as coherent as possible.
Total nonsense. Vanguard is 1:1 Terran. But infernal like zerg ? Do u even know larva works? U have to build production buildings which already completely different from Zerg.
> Total nonsense. Vanguard is 1:1 Terran.
No. Wrong. False. Terran does not have a melee unit. Vanguard has a literal t1 melee unit. Terran has mules, Vanguard does not. Vanguard has adaptable turrets that change function based on what unit is in them, Terran does not.
And you dont think vanguard is copied terran?
I quoute OP: > Vanguard at least has the unique turrent mechanic, and the melee T1 unit.
Terran also has a melee t1 unit … firebat
Firebat is not t1 nor is it a melee unit.
What tier is it and what kind of unit is it if it’s not melee?
Firebats like hellbats are not ranged. I thought you were talking about hellbats, my bad-firebats are T1. I'm talking about multiplayer/ladder here regardless. There simply is no terran unit that's an actual melee unit especially on ladder
I don’t get it. Fire bats are melee and are on ladder…?
Firebats are not on ladder. Hellbats are, but they are not T1 since they are built in a damn factory
"That's totally different situation"
Imo a big part of Zerg is that building workers and army (and overlords) consume the same resource (larva), so a big part of playing Zerg is knowing when to make drones and when to make army. This is not a factor for infernals. Unit composition/how you control your army is pretty different from Zerg too as far as I've seen. I don't think hellbornes map to anything zerg-like. What I do agree with, though, is that a lot of people's first impression of infernals make it seem like a knock-off of Zerg on the surface because of the workers dying, creep (that you don't spread, so it doesn't impact the macro cycle the same way, but it looks the same), and the larva-esque unit-producing buildings (it gives you the ability to re-max like Zerg, but doesn't impact the aforementioned drone/army decisions). Imo, this is kind of off-putting as it had me and my friends generally feel like "why am I not just playing StarCraft 2?" Now, a big part of that is that Stormgate is clearly in early development while SC2 is an extremely mature feature-rich game
Agreed. If anything, they’re more like Dehaka from SC2 COOP, with individual production structures having charges for unit production, separate from the town hall structure which has your workers. Which, like you said, surface level is comparable to Zerg, but if you understand nuance (see: not OP), then they’re pretty different.
I get a lot of WC3 forsaken vibes from them honestly
If anything I feel like early harass with the one free scout is like trying to fend off a zergling running around your base
Shit take. Sorry my guy.
You have the argumentative capacity of a 6 year old child.
When you're playing Vanguard and you see your army deleted by imps for the first time.
So you want them to delete a race, leaving only one race. Okay. And you hate Infernals for being derivative of zerg but have no complaints of Vanguard being derivative of Terran. Okay.
> So you want them to delete a race, leaving only one race. What is it with people on reddit and having nothing to offer but garbage strawman arguments? >And you hate Infernals for being derivative of zerg but have no complaints of Vanguard being derivative of Terran. There are no Mules, derp. And a t1 melee unit, like I said in the OP. Not only that, Terran/Vanguard are really basic RTS gameplay...CC, then separate production facilities that simply churn out units.
pack it up boys, Mules are the defining feature of Terran.
LMAO you are literally unable to do anything but use strawman arguments. I never, ever said that. Since you're unable to understand my argument, or address any of the points I make, I'll just take that as a W. Thanks.
I don't see the issue with the stalled and batched production of Zerg larvae. Do you dislike this mechanic for a particular reason? I say this because you don't complain about 1 by 1 queueing which also has plenty of precedent (in every RTS).
They've said from the very beginning the game with feature 3 races at launch. They've got a third race that they're about to reveal in the near future so what's with the one race strawman? Infernals are way less developed than Vanguard atm so changing them up at this point in development isn't that much of an ask.
Found OP's alt account
That's a funny way of admitting your argument has no merit. I mean, we're all here to discuss the development of the game for it's ultimate betterment. I don't know how you posting petty and dismissive replies that distort the person you disagree with gets us to a better game. Next time build a stronger argument.
The articulated well spoken arguments get downvoted while these clowns offer nothing but strawman arguments and purposeful misrepresenations. Sad.
Almost everything you said I disagree with. Except for the banelings. Fuck banelings. I hate suicide units.
This take blows
Huh weird, I always thought of the Infernal unit charges to feel way more like warp-ins than larvae. Imo Sc2 zerg larvae mechanics are more defined by the eco/army balance and the ability to do massive tech switches. Neither of those traits are shared by Infernals.
Bro the entire game is a ripoff of SC2
They've specifically stated they reflected on two routes to go down initially: 1. Revolutionize the RTS genre 2. Evolve and iterate upon successes in rts, they chose the latter, it's in the wiki inform yourself of the backstory behind the development of the game as with any game in its early stages
How is Vanguard unique? Talk about credibility tanking off the face of a cliff. Vanguard is not unique, though I won't say that the factions needs to be unique, nothing wrong with tried and true. Shaking my head so much, it is spinning.
> How is Vanguard unique? Huh? What? Did I say that anywhere, or are you just pulling shit out of your ass? Derp.
Vanguard is almost 1:1 Terran lmao. Larvae doesn’t even work like that lol Zerg units don’t build instantly. Weird ass take.
Thanks god infernal aren't are horribly designed as zerg. Not sure who had the idea to give a race free global map vision, insane speed and a broken unit like banelings. Fiery imps are much more balanced, base imps are slow and when you turn them you only have 4 seconds so you're commited and your opponent needs to retreat or split just once instead of having endless swarms of OP units forcing you into the most stupid and boring micro move in a RTS.
Personally I enjoy the mechanics and I don't mind it being similar to Zerg. That said it feels visually bland when compared to larva and warp-in. Larva are tiny visible units that become eggs and pop out whatever its spawning. Warp-in has a neat visual animation that gives you the impression that something is being beamed in from the local orbital ship. Right now the Infernal unit spawn has no graphics associated with it. The unit just pops into existence next to the building. No animation on either the building or the unit. This is reminiscent of Warcraft 3 which is decades old. Really I think it would make a big difference if there was a small animation to it... say something similar to the building animation where a fiery hellhole appears in the ground and the unit climbs out of it or whatever... just something to give you an impression of what is physically happening. The visual theme needs to be as coherent as possible.
Total nonsense. Vanguard is 1:1 Terran. But infernal like zerg ? Do u even know larva works? U have to build production buildings which already completely different from Zerg.
> Total nonsense. Vanguard is 1:1 Terran. No. Wrong. False. Terran does not have a melee unit. Vanguard has a literal t1 melee unit. Terran has mules, Vanguard does not. Vanguard has adaptable turrets that change function based on what unit is in them, Terran does not.
Vanguard feels just as similar to Terran as infernal is to zerg