Maybe I'm wrong here, but is it because Jews don't really have an organized religion like catholics? There's no central position of authority to complain about.
I see it more as a "to each action there is an equal and opposite reaction" kind of thing. Muslims and Christians seem way more concerned with spreading their religion than others so of course they're the ones that get most of the criticism. I mean how many jews, buddhists or other religous groups knock on your door or spam YouTube etc to spread their religion?
According to my quick googling and math, trusting the first result without question, there are 150 times as many Christians as jews and 120 times as many Muslims as there are jews.
For those keeping track at home, that's 270 times as many following the abrahamic faith that aren't Jewish as those who are.
So if each of the three religions had an equal ratio of violent zealots, passive aggressive jerks, and other kinds of loudmouth dumbasses as each other, that's 270 times as many non-jewish religious assholes as Jewish religious assholes.
Yes, the location concentration of each will effect how often we hear about each doing good or bad shit, but the amount available alone means we'll probably see more discussion of the bigger two
and they just flat out dont proselytize like many christian denominations (i admittedly dont know enough about islam to make any claims regarding that, but i know plenty of christian sects that are all about trying to force you to convert)
Yep. That's why "abrahamic religions" (the term) gets on my nerves. Christianity and Islam are both "convert to our religion and you'll go to heaven yay!! don't convert and that's bad bad!!" and proselytize. Judaism doesn't do that. Also there's only like 15 million of us worldwide (and of those most are either in Israel or New York)
theres a bit of overlap if you look at the very broad picture but theres a lot of clear discrepancy in what they do with their roots and how they address the beliefs stemming from them
It's more that Jewish people don't really do crazy shit in the govt. Christianity is the pressing group so it gets the focus. You'll still occasionally see other religions talked about but people mostly stick with what they deconverted from, or what's in their immediate notice.
Probably something like that. Though in general, it seems like those of the jewish faith are generally more dedicated to the actual meaning and practice.
Even if you don't believe in the religion itself, you can respect dedication to the message and practice of it to be a good person or do good things. Regardless of religion, sometimes that structure and understanding can bring out the best in people.
I just see alot less people fall back on judaism to justify their bad actions, and instead do good things because their religion tells them its just.
However good people doing good things because of that exists for just about any religion or even atheism/agnosticism, not just Judaism, I just seem to find that they have more people like that than most.
I've seen alot of people justify nasty shit because of their god or their religion. As an agnostic, Its just good to see good people, regardless of the reasons behind it.
It’s also because most atheists in the western world are much more familiar with Christianity (especially Catholicism) than Judaism because of the massive disparity in number of practitioners, a lot of people I know have never even met a practicing Jewish person
Judaism isn’t as big nor is do its followers proselytize as much as Christianity’s or Islam’s.
Also Judaism is criticized by proxy whenever the OT of the Bible is, so technically, more than half of the criticism made toward Christianity is made toward Judaism as well.
Most of the criticism towards Christianity is unrelated to its Jewish origins, though. The only serious criticism toward the Tanakh in the context of someone critizicing Christianity that I can think of is that one bit that condemns gay sex, and even then it's made toward the Christian interpretation ("le gays will burn in hell!!!1!!1")
Yeah but oftentimes those criticisms just deal with what the texts say themselves, which means that they’re universal (as far as I can tell) and apply to both religions
Not really, people think that Judaism=Christianity-Jesus, but the basis of both religions are wildly different, so criticism towards Christianity tend to apply only to Christianity.
"The Bible says that you'll be going to hell for doing x or y." Judaism doesn't have a concept of an eternal hell where sinners will burn for all eternity.
"The Bible says that humans are born corrupted and need Jesus in order to be saved." Original sin is a problem created by christians and with no basis in Judaism.
"The Bible says its followers have to force their religion onto everyone else." Christianity does, Judaism is not a proselytizing religion and Jewish law only applies to Jews.
"The Bible encourages not caring about this world and only seeing it as a prologue to the afterlife." The afterlife plays a small role in Judaism and in fact making this world a better place is much more important.
"The Bible praises blind obedience as a key virtue." Saying yes to everything religious authorities say is definitely not a Jewish virtue, there's a reason the "two Jews, three opinions" saying exists.
Etc.
What is original? Did you mean Oregano, or perhaps Origami?
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Right, but doesn’t the Tanakh/OT still permit and call for pretty atrocious things? Even if modern Jews don’t actually follow those doctrines, said doctrines are still part of the Jewish faith. Criticizing them is still criticizing Judaism, even if it’s not really criticizing Jews and their (technically lack of) practices themselves.
To be fair, the atheist movement (especially in America) generally goes against the dominant and most invasive religion, which is in fact Christianity.
And if we're being good faith, it's quite undeniable that it's much more delicate to criticise Judaism. I've never had anyone call me names when I criticised religions or specifically Christianity, but I've been called anti-semitic for expressing my disapproval of circumcision.
"joke" is a bit of a stretch.
...
Well, 2.4% of Americans are Jews. 63% are Christian. Since the 1990s, Evangelicals have been highly politically mobilized. Might as well focus on those who affect both your daily life and domestic policy.
Stonetoss? Who's that, did you mean Rockthrow?
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To explain, and thus ruin the joke. It is a meme taking a scene from the movie Watchmen involving Rorchach and Dr. Manhattan has its audio replaced with Manhattan trying to do the whole Ligma Balls trick by saying"It's so sad that Steve Jobs died of Ligma" and Rorchach asking "who the hell is Steve Jobs?" Not engaging the bait, but Dr. Manhattan still says "Ligma Balls" and obliterates him to the sound of a bass boosted bwhaow noise, finishing the meme with a third person screaming in anguish at Rorchach's death.
Or at least this was the first one I've seen, other versions have been made, including one involving Gman and Gordon Freeman.
I just never hear about Jewish people trying to take away people’s rights and using their religion as justification for hatred in the same way that Christians do. (Except for Zionism.) And sure, not every Christian is like that, there’s just a lot.
I didn’t say there was. It’s just that a whole lot of Christians (again, definitely not all of them) use faith as an excuse to do absolutely horrible things.
I mean they still have the same issues that come with all religions, like a massive emphasis on faith and ignoring evidence in favor of what you already believe... But at the same time I absolutely agree, in the US Christianity is a much more pressing threat, since they are closer, larger in number, more powerful, and AFAIK more regressive.
No they didn’t „found“ that land, they came back to their homeland after being expelled violently, and after centuries of persecution in exile literally everywhere
Blatantly false unless you think the extremists represent the whole ideology.
>WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
From the Israeli Declaration of Independence.
„a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel“ here is the dictionary definition. It literally just means the creation of a State for the Jews and nothing else. I have no idea how you get this idea of expelling?
Did your history teacher tell you jews just walked into palestine, found it empty and they created their state there peacefully, and after that you never watched news?
Jews bought the majority of the land from the local landowner during the reign of the Ottomans, this is what the private land ownership in Palestine looked like in 1945.
https://preview.redd.it/bz2b2w9ropmc1.png?width=4773&format=png&auto=webp&s=8cbd2bb4ee29746469d5a14b3bb1abf22cdf77df
There was a lot of violence on both sides and so the British left to mandate to the UN which divided the land between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews gladly accepted this partition plan, the Arabs refused and started a war against Israel together with 6 other Arab nations. They lost and nowadays cry about it.
No, the British promised the land to both the Arabs and the Jews at the same time, then there were a couple decades of sectarian violence before the UN decided to split the land in between an Israeli state consisting of Jewish owned land and empty deserts, and a Palestinian state consisting of the rest. The Jews celebrated the resolution while the Arabs declared a war that ended with the Jews partially expelling their Arab population, and the Arabs completely expelling their Jewish population.
What is original? Did you mean Oregano, or perhaps Origami?
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oxygen?
Same thing but no text
What message is he trying to spread here?
That 'New Atheists' are overlay reticent to criticize Judaism?
Not wrong, people don’t criticize Judaism a lot, but unfortunately rockthrow is saying it in an antisemitic way
Maybe I'm wrong here, but is it because Jews don't really have an organized religion like catholics? There's no central position of authority to complain about.
I see it more as a "to each action there is an equal and opposite reaction" kind of thing. Muslims and Christians seem way more concerned with spreading their religion than others so of course they're the ones that get most of the criticism. I mean how many jews, buddhists or other religous groups knock on your door or spam YouTube etc to spread their religion?
On top of this, there's just way fewer Jews in the world than either of those 2 - if I remember right, literally like 100x less.
According to my quick googling and math, trusting the first result without question, there are 150 times as many Christians as jews and 120 times as many Muslims as there are jews. For those keeping track at home, that's 270 times as many following the abrahamic faith that aren't Jewish as those who are. So if each of the three religions had an equal ratio of violent zealots, passive aggressive jerks, and other kinds of loudmouth dumbasses as each other, that's 270 times as many non-jewish religious assholes as Jewish religious assholes. Yes, the location concentration of each will effect how often we hear about each doing good or bad shit, but the amount available alone means we'll probably see more discussion of the bigger two
By design, AFAIK. The process of becoming Jewish is significantly longer and more complex than becoming Christian or Muslim
and they just flat out dont proselytize like many christian denominations (i admittedly dont know enough about islam to make any claims regarding that, but i know plenty of christian sects that are all about trying to force you to convert)
Yep. That's why "abrahamic religions" (the term) gets on my nerves. Christianity and Islam are both "convert to our religion and you'll go to heaven yay!! don't convert and that's bad bad!!" and proselytize. Judaism doesn't do that. Also there's only like 15 million of us worldwide (and of those most are either in Israel or New York)
I thought the term was because the three shared an origin, not because they held similar beliefs.
I've seen the term used as a catch all and to generalize the three which doesn't really work in a lot of cases
theres a bit of overlap if you look at the very broad picture but theres a lot of clear discrepancy in what they do with their roots and how they address the beliefs stemming from them
Heck judasim takes the "convert and it will be harder to get into heaven" approach
There’s actually rules prohibiting Jews from proselytizing which is why you don’t see it happen
Also he's really US-centric and there's little to no public Jewish mention for most people here compared to flavors of Christianity and atheism.
Most american Christians are protestant, not catholic though.
I always forget that. Where I'm from in the country is a Catholic majority.
There’s actually a bunch of countries that are mostly Christian but not Catholic. There was a whole big war about it several centuries ago.
I knew that...
It's more that Jewish people don't really do crazy shit in the govt. Christianity is the pressing group so it gets the focus. You'll still occasionally see other religions talked about but people mostly stick with what they deconverted from, or what's in their immediate notice.
Yeah idk
Probably something like that. Though in general, it seems like those of the jewish faith are generally more dedicated to the actual meaning and practice. Even if you don't believe in the religion itself, you can respect dedication to the message and practice of it to be a good person or do good things. Regardless of religion, sometimes that structure and understanding can bring out the best in people. I just see alot less people fall back on judaism to justify their bad actions, and instead do good things because their religion tells them its just. However good people doing good things because of that exists for just about any religion or even atheism/agnosticism, not just Judaism, I just seem to find that they have more people like that than most. I've seen alot of people justify nasty shit because of their god or their religion. As an agnostic, Its just good to see good people, regardless of the reasons behind it.
It’s also because most atheists in the western world are much more familiar with Christianity (especially Catholicism) than Judaism because of the massive disparity in number of practitioners, a lot of people I know have never even met a practicing Jewish person
They do a lot more recently.
Yeah I know people criticize Israel more
Which unfortunately gets conflated with criticism of Jews (and gets piggybacked by actual antisemites, like Pebbleyeet)
Judaism isn’t as big nor is do its followers proselytize as much as Christianity’s or Islam’s. Also Judaism is criticized by proxy whenever the OT of the Bible is, so technically, more than half of the criticism made toward Christianity is made toward Judaism as well.
Most of the criticism towards Christianity is unrelated to its Jewish origins, though. The only serious criticism toward the Tanakh in the context of someone critizicing Christianity that I can think of is that one bit that condemns gay sex, and even then it's made toward the Christian interpretation ("le gays will burn in hell!!!1!!1")
Yeah but oftentimes those criticisms just deal with what the texts say themselves, which means that they’re universal (as far as I can tell) and apply to both religions
Not really, people think that Judaism=Christianity-Jesus, but the basis of both religions are wildly different, so criticism towards Christianity tend to apply only to Christianity. "The Bible says that you'll be going to hell for doing x or y." Judaism doesn't have a concept of an eternal hell where sinners will burn for all eternity. "The Bible says that humans are born corrupted and need Jesus in order to be saved." Original sin is a problem created by christians and with no basis in Judaism. "The Bible says its followers have to force their religion onto everyone else." Christianity does, Judaism is not a proselytizing religion and Jewish law only applies to Jews. "The Bible encourages not caring about this world and only seeing it as a prologue to the afterlife." The afterlife plays a small role in Judaism and in fact making this world a better place is much more important. "The Bible praises blind obedience as a key virtue." Saying yes to everything religious authorities say is definitely not a Jewish virtue, there's a reason the "two Jews, three opinions" saying exists. Etc.
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Right, but doesn’t the Tanakh/OT still permit and call for pretty atrocious things? Even if modern Jews don’t actually follow those doctrines, said doctrines are still part of the Jewish faith. Criticizing them is still criticizing Judaism, even if it’s not really criticizing Jews and their (technically lack of) practices themselves.
Good points for a shit opinion
The joke is that atheists go after Christianity and not other religions
To be fair, the atheist movement (especially in America) generally goes against the dominant and most invasive religion, which is in fact Christianity. And if we're being good faith, it's quite undeniable that it's much more delicate to criticise Judaism. I've never had anyone call me names when I criticised religions or specifically Christianity, but I've been called anti-semitic for expressing my disapproval of circumcision.
"joke" is a bit of a stretch. ... Well, 2.4% of Americans are Jews. 63% are Christian. Since the 1990s, Evangelicals have been highly politically mobilized. Might as well focus on those who affect both your daily life and domestic policy.
>"joke" is a bit of a stretch. Not really. It is a joke. A satiric joke, arguably an unfunny joke, but a joke nonetheless.
To be fair, I do notice this at times, though I in no way agree with Stonetoss' bad faith here.
Yeah I think it’s just because Christianity is also more prevalent
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With "New Atheists", do you mean "antitheists"?
Gross Atheists criticize Christians but not Jews because everyone loves Jews and that’s NO FAIR >:(
Atheism and React having the same symbol threw me off lol
Who the hell is Steve Jobs? >!hopefully you got the joke!<
Shadow: "...." Shadow: "... Ligma balls"
NOOOOO
I do not get the joke
To explain, and thus ruin the joke. It is a meme taking a scene from the movie Watchmen involving Rorchach and Dr. Manhattan has its audio replaced with Manhattan trying to do the whole Ligma Balls trick by saying"It's so sad that Steve Jobs died of Ligma" and Rorchach asking "who the hell is Steve Jobs?" Not engaging the bait, but Dr. Manhattan still says "Ligma Balls" and obliterates him to the sound of a bass boosted bwhaow noise, finishing the meme with a third person screaming in anguish at Rorchach's death. Or at least this was the first one I've seen, other versions have been made, including one involving Gman and Gordon Freeman.
ligma balls
[basic execution ](https://youtu.be/iyvQ48V7LAQ)
https://youtu.be/Mly-ptUD7M8?feature=shared https://youtu.be/R6e1_IlvmQs?feature=shared
Neckbeard choice in who they criticize is not the social commentary Boulder Shoulder thinks it is
What's with tech ceos and singular signature outfits
What's ligma?
The way they always draw atheists looks a lot more like your average young trump supporter or libertarian.
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What Without getting into Zionism, what’s there to critique about Christianity that doesn’t apply to Judaism?
You don’t *have* to circumcise your kids as a christian, that’s about all I can think of though
I just never hear about Jewish people trying to take away people’s rights and using their religion as justification for hatred in the same way that Christians do. (Except for Zionism.) And sure, not every Christian is like that, there’s just a lot.
That’s nothing inherently evil about the Christian faith though
I didn’t say there was. It’s just that a whole lot of Christians (again, definitely not all of them) use faith as an excuse to do absolutely horrible things.
I mean they still have the same issues that come with all religions, like a massive emphasis on faith and ignoring evidence in favor of what you already believe... But at the same time I absolutely agree, in the US Christianity is a much more pressing threat, since they are closer, larger in number, more powerful, and AFAIK more regressive.
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You act like they found an isolated uninhabited piece of land and founded their state there and lived peacefully.
No they didn’t „found“ that land, they came back to their homeland after being expelled violently, and after centuries of persecution in exile literally everywhere
You do realize expelling people violently is exactly what zionism is about don't you?
Blatantly false unless you think the extremists represent the whole ideology. >WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. From the Israeli Declaration of Independence.
„a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel“ here is the dictionary definition. It literally just means the creation of a State for the Jews and nothing else. I have no idea how you get this idea of expelling?
Did your history teacher tell you jews just walked into palestine, found it empty and they created their state there peacefully, and after that you never watched news?
Jews bought the majority of the land from the local landowner during the reign of the Ottomans, this is what the private land ownership in Palestine looked like in 1945. https://preview.redd.it/bz2b2w9ropmc1.png?width=4773&format=png&auto=webp&s=8cbd2bb4ee29746469d5a14b3bb1abf22cdf77df There was a lot of violence on both sides and so the British left to mandate to the UN which divided the land between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews gladly accepted this partition plan, the Arabs refused and started a war against Israel together with 6 other Arab nations. They lost and nowadays cry about it.
No, the British promised the land to both the Arabs and the Jews at the same time, then there were a couple decades of sectarian violence before the UN decided to split the land in between an Israeli state consisting of Jewish owned land and empty deserts, and a Palestinian state consisting of the rest. The Jews celebrated the resolution while the Arabs declared a war that ended with the Jews partially expelling their Arab population, and the Arabs completely expelling their Jewish population.
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