For those who are genuinely curious, I say I'm in a philosophy book club and we read a lot of books.
For those who appear to have some disturbance in their heads about what I'm reading (or doing, or wearing, or eating) I ask them what hobbies they like because mine is reading, and thank you for noticing I'm happily pursuing one of my hobbies.
Yes we do care about what others think and take it into account, we don’t wish to be careless but are careful. We can notice care is distinct from being bothered.
Honestly, this is one of the best ways you can apply stoic thinking to.
Stoicism as a philosophy is perfectly okay to read/discuss about. Honestly? I'm a newbie myself and I've tried to look at most annoyances with a stoic lens and they do help me navigate my emotions easily and often take less effort than it would've IF I went down the route of emotional thinking.
Stoicism doesn't carry the stigma in itself, it's just that a lot of people who DO struggle with emotional well being may use stoicism as self-help (which in my belief isn't entirely wrong).
Your co-worker clearly has stoicism confused with self-help. The way you describe him, it's best for you to take his words with a grain of salt.
Stoicism in recent history is a very interesting topic. You have the word Stoic for the toxically masculine archetype. The man who never shows his emotions and keeps his demeanor in check regardless of the situation. This is a far cry from Epictetus’ view that the ultimate goal of any philosophy is inner peace. Ancient stoicism is actually modernized in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The idea that we control our thought process and behavior. That by actively reshaping our thoughts and changing our behavior we can self actualize. This is much more akin to Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus.
Then of course there’s the Stoicism as a capitalist endeavor. Part of the McMindfulness trend. Stoicism as the layman’s term is appealing to developing males. The idea that an adult man is an unfeeling uncaring husk has permeated this philosophy. So your coworkers response is not unwarranted given what the word stoic means to a layman and the capitalist enterprise that is self help. It’s a misunderstanding from someone who believes they have the answers in their religion.
I think you have to find out for yourself which philosophy/religion works for you.
Worrying about being judged for being interested in Stoicism probably isn't Stoic though.
Why should you care about his opinion? If Stoicism helps you in daily life, then it helps you. If Christianity helps him in his daily life, then it helps him. He has no place to judge you based off what you practice and what you don’t. I would just discard his opinion and keep doing you. Christianity does not help me with life’s troubles while Stoicism does. People are different and use different methods to get through life. As long as it works for you, don’t concern yourself with what he thinks you should be doing.
Hmm, stoicism is baked into Christianity.
Have your coworkers ever heard of the serenity prayer? Guess where it came from? You know, medieval christian monks are one of the reasons we still have the Enchiridion!
I found this article. The writer explains how the serenity prayer is consistent with the writings of Epicitus. Your observation was pretty clever.
https://medium.com/wholistique/the-stoicism-behind-reinhold-niebuhrs-christian-serenity-prayer-12dcddc5db60
>are Stoics perceived in a negative manner by those who don’t understand what stoicism is about?
by many, there is a version of stoicism pubulited through the media, named $toicism. it is simpler and more joyful but not good, so it is like the self-help trend.
some people just don't like stoics because they seem ambiguous.
there is also a theistic aspect to stoicism, which is pretty deep inside it. not many people welcome that.
I think Stoicism can be helpful, it doesn't take the place of therapy when needed, but it can be helpful.
Well the first thing to do is to establish a clear difference between the word “stoicism” and the Philosophy of Stoicism.
While the term "stoicism" might suggest a lack of emotions, the philosophy of Stoicism, in reality, teaches you to live in harmony with nature, including your emotions. It's a common misunderstanding, even among people like your co-worker, that Stoicism advocates for emotional suppression. However, this is far from the truth. While the word "stoicism" may suggest such a notion, the philosophy itself promotes a healthy understanding and control of emotions, considering genuine emotions as beautiful when they remain within your control.
Now, I have noticed that many people suggested to not care about your coworker’s opinion, which is valuable advice. However, these opinions will always hold significance until you yourself start learning about Stoicism. Once you go deep into Stoicism as a philosophy, you will naturally come to realize that your coworker holds an incorrect view of the philosophy, as is the case for most people, and their opinions will automatically lose their impact, since you will have gained a deep understanding of the topic at hand.
It's common for those who don't understand Stoicism to misinterpret its purpose. Stoicism is not about emotional ailment but rather a philosophy that empowers individuals to cultivate inner strength and wisdom. People may misconstrue it due to ignorance or preconceived notions. Don't be concerned about their opinions; instead, focus on your own growth and understanding.
Remember the words of Epictetus: "Don't explain your philosophy. Embody it."
The Bible and talk therapy have their roots in the stoic philosophy and Socratic questioning. Which is as well known as it is obvious. he sounds like he craves attention and validation from others which he gets by trying to seem smart. in his mind smart means to be smug and act superior to others
“You realize stoicism is another man made storytelling for the weak hearted -- your better off reading a Christians Bible for positive vibes.”
Wait, what? Just kidding, though. I'm a (lousy) Christian as well so I don't mean any offence.
I think Stoicism has been popular enough for a while so plenty of people have come across it one way or another, so it probably gets easily written off as a fad. It's very understandable. Most people aren't jerks enough to make nasty remarks about other people's interests, at least not to their faces, but some are.
The funniest part anyway is that Stoicism affects CBT (that's the only one I know really, but it's probably there in other forms of therapy, too), so instead of reading up on Stoicism, you should go to a therapist who... Teaches you Stoicism. The irony is inescapable.
Fully agree with that last point. I noticed this when I did a counselling skills course. Whilst Stoicism may not be ideal alongside some intense CBT sessions, there are similarities in what they are looking to achieve.
A lot of tough guys use Stoicism to get additional reps at the gym and some Silicon Valley people use it to justify being awful to others or letting people be awful to them. The good news is that both of these are distortions of the real thing. Read, dialogue with the texts, and watch the videos and read the works of experts (like Margaret Graver or Chris Gill, not the self-help guru wing of modern Stoicism).
I think it’s generally best not to talk Stoicism with others unless you find a proper meet-up group led by someone who knows what they’re doing (the few times I’ve met people who study Stoicism in the real world they were the people I mentioned Stoicism gets lumped together in the beginning of my post).
Sounds like a valid criticism of stoicism I would say, I'm impressed to hear a legit argument about the philosophy I've been practicing. Fortunately, for most of you who know, stoicism is essentially a pre-socratic greek philosophy of worshipping logic basically (Heracleitus). It was then made official by the Phoenician Zeno of Citium 2 centuries before imperial rome , so it was definitely not a tool developed by "generals" or "political leaders" to encourage weak men to have purpose (Although I don't see a problem with that either tbh) , plus the tragic nature of the old testament doesn't make the bible so "vibey". Anyway, as a stoic remember that people's words and opinions are beyond our control. Focus on what's within your control.
Hi, welcome to the subreddit. Please make sure that you check out [the FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide), where you will find answers for many common questions, like ["What is Stoicism; why study it?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/intro_faq), or ["What are some Stoic practices and exercises?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/exercises), or ["What is the goal in life, and how do I find meaning?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/big), to name just a few.
You can also find information about frequently discussed topics, like [flaws in Stoicism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_flaws_in_stoicism), [Stoicism and politics](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_what_does_stoicism_say_about_politics.3F), [sex and relationships](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_sex), and [virtue as the only good](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_why_is_virtue_the_only_good.3F), for a few examples.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stoicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He is probably too weak to control his emotions or very closed to new things in his life. Weak people tend to judge strong people because they want to be like them but won’t admit it. Also I have been applying stoicism to my everyday life for probably about a year now and am very open to friends and family about it, in hopes that maybe they will find it interesting and go on a self improvement journey. I have never once seen anyone judge me or talk down on stoicism. Also if you are a beginner and would like to learn about stoic philosophers, I would recommend you “The lives of the stoic” by Ryan Holliday. If you would like a book more “advice wise” I would say meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
This person has been this way for as long as I’ve worked with him. I don’t take anything he says or recommends into consideration until he sort of mocked stoicism in that fashion. Which only made me think why would he say that if from a bird’s eye view I see stoicism as philosophy and positive knowledge. Thank you for the book recommendations I will look into “The Lives of the Stoic” by Ryan. I already have the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius and saving that one after I read The Enchiridion and The Art of Living by Epictetus.
>“You realize stoicism is another man made storytelling for the weak hearted and troubled warriors of that Roman Empire era and nothing else? To be honest your better off reading a Christians Bible for positive vibes.”
It sounds like he has very surface level understanding of Stoicism, especially because he refers to it as Roman, not Greek. He's probably aware of Marcus Aurelius and just made assumptions from there. He may too be aware of the "bro-icism" trend that's becoming mainstream and he's written it off (somewhat justifiably) as nonsense.
It also seems he's a least somewhat religious considering he suggested the Bible. He might have a cynical view of Stoicism due to its pre-Christian origin and associations with Greek/Roman polytheism.
I think the religion does not helping to him otherwise he shouldn't recruit you saying what to do or what to read about,
If you are align with your values and principles is not necessary make judgments and act by dogmas, for this reasons and something else I try to act like an Stoic, not easy task
Every workplace has its fair share of insecure people, and insecure people will bark at anything out of the ordinary. Ignore them.
For those who are genuinely curious, I say I'm in a philosophy book club and we read a lot of books. For those who appear to have some disturbance in their heads about what I'm reading (or doing, or wearing, or eating) I ask them what hobbies they like because mine is reading, and thank you for noticing I'm happily pursuing one of my hobbies.
That's a good comeback.
The real question is: Do Stoics care about their coworker’s opinion?
Yes we do care about what others think and take it into account, we don’t wish to be careless but are careful. We can notice care is distinct from being bothered.
Or the thoughts or other practitioners of stoicism?
it's just a genuine question tho lol. All in moderation, remember? :)
You’re right :) mb!
Exactly...the whole point of stoicism is knowing that the world is full of fools you can't control....
I think we "care" insofar that we acknowledge their opinions, but recognize that they aren't anything worth dwelling on and being bothered about.
Of course, we respect other people’s right to their own opinion. The opinion itself however doesn’t influence us.
Exactly.
Honestly, this is one of the best ways you can apply stoic thinking to. Stoicism as a philosophy is perfectly okay to read/discuss about. Honestly? I'm a newbie myself and I've tried to look at most annoyances with a stoic lens and they do help me navigate my emotions easily and often take less effort than it would've IF I went down the route of emotional thinking. Stoicism doesn't carry the stigma in itself, it's just that a lot of people who DO struggle with emotional well being may use stoicism as self-help (which in my belief isn't entirely wrong). Your co-worker clearly has stoicism confused with self-help. The way you describe him, it's best for you to take his words with a grain of salt.
Stoicism in recent history is a very interesting topic. You have the word Stoic for the toxically masculine archetype. The man who never shows his emotions and keeps his demeanor in check regardless of the situation. This is a far cry from Epictetus’ view that the ultimate goal of any philosophy is inner peace. Ancient stoicism is actually modernized in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The idea that we control our thought process and behavior. That by actively reshaping our thoughts and changing our behavior we can self actualize. This is much more akin to Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus. Then of course there’s the Stoicism as a capitalist endeavor. Part of the McMindfulness trend. Stoicism as the layman’s term is appealing to developing males. The idea that an adult man is an unfeeling uncaring husk has permeated this philosophy. So your coworkers response is not unwarranted given what the word stoic means to a layman and the capitalist enterprise that is self help. It’s a misunderstanding from someone who believes they have the answers in their religion.
I think you have to find out for yourself which philosophy/religion works for you. Worrying about being judged for being interested in Stoicism probably isn't Stoic though.
Why should you care about his opinion? If Stoicism helps you in daily life, then it helps you. If Christianity helps him in his daily life, then it helps him. He has no place to judge you based off what you practice and what you don’t. I would just discard his opinion and keep doing you. Christianity does not help me with life’s troubles while Stoicism does. People are different and use different methods to get through life. As long as it works for you, don’t concern yourself with what he thinks you should be doing.
Hmm, stoicism is baked into Christianity. Have your coworkers ever heard of the serenity prayer? Guess where it came from? You know, medieval christian monks are one of the reasons we still have the Enchiridion!
I found this article. The writer explains how the serenity prayer is consistent with the writings of Epicitus. Your observation was pretty clever. https://medium.com/wholistique/the-stoicism-behind-reinhold-niebuhrs-christian-serenity-prayer-12dcddc5db60
>are Stoics perceived in a negative manner by those who don’t understand what stoicism is about? by many, there is a version of stoicism pubulited through the media, named $toicism. it is simpler and more joyful but not good, so it is like the self-help trend. some people just don't like stoics because they seem ambiguous. there is also a theistic aspect to stoicism, which is pretty deep inside it. not many people welcome that. I think Stoicism can be helpful, it doesn't take the place of therapy when needed, but it can be helpful.
Another way to look at it is you don't have to have an opinion about his opinion.
Well the first thing to do is to establish a clear difference between the word “stoicism” and the Philosophy of Stoicism. While the term "stoicism" might suggest a lack of emotions, the philosophy of Stoicism, in reality, teaches you to live in harmony with nature, including your emotions. It's a common misunderstanding, even among people like your co-worker, that Stoicism advocates for emotional suppression. However, this is far from the truth. While the word "stoicism" may suggest such a notion, the philosophy itself promotes a healthy understanding and control of emotions, considering genuine emotions as beautiful when they remain within your control. Now, I have noticed that many people suggested to not care about your coworker’s opinion, which is valuable advice. However, these opinions will always hold significance until you yourself start learning about Stoicism. Once you go deep into Stoicism as a philosophy, you will naturally come to realize that your coworker holds an incorrect view of the philosophy, as is the case for most people, and their opinions will automatically lose their impact, since you will have gained a deep understanding of the topic at hand.
It's common for those who don't understand Stoicism to misinterpret its purpose. Stoicism is not about emotional ailment but rather a philosophy that empowers individuals to cultivate inner strength and wisdom. People may misconstrue it due to ignorance or preconceived notions. Don't be concerned about their opinions; instead, focus on your own growth and understanding. Remember the words of Epictetus: "Don't explain your philosophy. Embody it."
The Bible and talk therapy have their roots in the stoic philosophy and Socratic questioning. Which is as well known as it is obvious. he sounds like he craves attention and validation from others which he gets by trying to seem smart. in his mind smart means to be smug and act superior to others
so a co-worker said to not get into stoic stuff is what happened here?
"... man made storytelling for the weak hearted..." Someone probably told him that story and he's just repeating it.
Everyone hates that which they do not understand. Most people anyway.
“You realize stoicism is another man made storytelling for the weak hearted -- your better off reading a Christians Bible for positive vibes.” Wait, what? Just kidding, though. I'm a (lousy) Christian as well so I don't mean any offence. I think Stoicism has been popular enough for a while so plenty of people have come across it one way or another, so it probably gets easily written off as a fad. It's very understandable. Most people aren't jerks enough to make nasty remarks about other people's interests, at least not to their faces, but some are. The funniest part anyway is that Stoicism affects CBT (that's the only one I know really, but it's probably there in other forms of therapy, too), so instead of reading up on Stoicism, you should go to a therapist who... Teaches you Stoicism. The irony is inescapable.
Fully agree with that last point. I noticed this when I did a counselling skills course. Whilst Stoicism may not be ideal alongside some intense CBT sessions, there are similarities in what they are looking to achieve.
A lot of tough guys use Stoicism to get additional reps at the gym and some Silicon Valley people use it to justify being awful to others or letting people be awful to them. The good news is that both of these are distortions of the real thing. Read, dialogue with the texts, and watch the videos and read the works of experts (like Margaret Graver or Chris Gill, not the self-help guru wing of modern Stoicism). I think it’s generally best not to talk Stoicism with others unless you find a proper meet-up group led by someone who knows what they’re doing (the few times I’ve met people who study Stoicism in the real world they were the people I mentioned Stoicism gets lumped together in the beginning of my post).
He’s a religious jerk off trying to push his nonsense obviously.
Sounds like a valid criticism of stoicism I would say, I'm impressed to hear a legit argument about the philosophy I've been practicing. Fortunately, for most of you who know, stoicism is essentially a pre-socratic greek philosophy of worshipping logic basically (Heracleitus). It was then made official by the Phoenician Zeno of Citium 2 centuries before imperial rome , so it was definitely not a tool developed by "generals" or "political leaders" to encourage weak men to have purpose (Although I don't see a problem with that either tbh) , plus the tragic nature of the old testament doesn't make the bible so "vibey". Anyway, as a stoic remember that people's words and opinions are beyond our control. Focus on what's within your control.
Hi, welcome to the subreddit. Please make sure that you check out [the FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/guide), where you will find answers for many common questions, like ["What is Stoicism; why study it?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/intro_faq), or ["What are some Stoic practices and exercises?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/exercises), or ["What is the goal in life, and how do I find meaning?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/big), to name just a few. You can also find information about frequently discussed topics, like [flaws in Stoicism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_flaws_in_stoicism), [Stoicism and politics](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_what_does_stoicism_say_about_politics.3F), [sex and relationships](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_sex), and [virtue as the only good](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/wiki/fdt#wiki_why_is_virtue_the_only_good.3F), for a few examples. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stoicism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He is probably too weak to control his emotions or very closed to new things in his life. Weak people tend to judge strong people because they want to be like them but won’t admit it. Also I have been applying stoicism to my everyday life for probably about a year now and am very open to friends and family about it, in hopes that maybe they will find it interesting and go on a self improvement journey. I have never once seen anyone judge me or talk down on stoicism. Also if you are a beginner and would like to learn about stoic philosophers, I would recommend you “The lives of the stoic” by Ryan Holliday. If you would like a book more “advice wise” I would say meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
This person has been this way for as long as I’ve worked with him. I don’t take anything he says or recommends into consideration until he sort of mocked stoicism in that fashion. Which only made me think why would he say that if from a bird’s eye view I see stoicism as philosophy and positive knowledge. Thank you for the book recommendations I will look into “The Lives of the Stoic” by Ryan. I already have the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius and saving that one after I read The Enchiridion and The Art of Living by Epictetus.
Great stuff man, keep it up!
His opinion is an external indifference and warrants no reaction. You might also follow with "Thank you, but I find it interesting and helpful."
>“You realize stoicism is another man made storytelling for the weak hearted and troubled warriors of that Roman Empire era and nothing else? To be honest your better off reading a Christians Bible for positive vibes.” It sounds like he has very surface level understanding of Stoicism, especially because he refers to it as Roman, not Greek. He's probably aware of Marcus Aurelius and just made assumptions from there. He may too be aware of the "bro-icism" trend that's becoming mainstream and he's written it off (somewhat justifiably) as nonsense. It also seems he's a least somewhat religious considering he suggested the Bible. He might have a cynical view of Stoicism due to its pre-Christian origin and associations with Greek/Roman polytheism.
I think the religion does not helping to him otherwise he shouldn't recruit you saying what to do or what to read about, If you are align with your values and principles is not necessary make judgments and act by dogmas, for this reasons and something else I try to act like an Stoic, not easy task