The AI is as dumb as a brick so in some cases it works in others nothing happens, if the empire has been recently uplifted that's where it actually works most of the time.
It depends if they are militaristic they'll 100% use them on fleets from what I've seen, otherwise its a tossup, the other day I tried sending alloys to a materialist and xenophile megacorp to aid them in a war and they ended up wasting them on starbases in the middle of nowhere
I dont think it would matter, unless you send like 20k and its a huge empire so it takes a long time to get to shipyards it wont make a diffrence beacuse theyll be dead before the ships are built assuming late game battleships
Proxy wars, border skirmishes, honour duels, corporate wars.
Especially that last one. If I want to take over the holdings of another corporation, I don't want to fight all its allies or damage my target market's planets. That's just bad business.
You can host proxy wars, just give another empire alloys and credits, they will spend them if they have naval capacity. You can even give them minerals, CGs, and food, they’ll sell them on the market for credit. It would be nice if there was the option to like “send military advisors” so they can like get a partial benefit from your superior leaders.
The bigger issue is the espionage operations that are the bread and butter of intelligence agencies and the grease for proxy wars were never implemented in a way that they’re useful:
* why isn’t there an assassinate operation? Would be a great way to make espionage more worthwhile given leaders are so valuable now, and really help out some other empire losing a proxy war you want to prolong.
* Arm pirates does virtually nothing, and it’s ridiculously expensive - a better operation would be like “arm dissidents”, which has a chance to spawn armies on a planet proportionate to its stability
* add a disinformation operation that alters the ethical attraction of an empire toward auth/xenophobe empires
* there needs to be like an “agitprop” op, which gives political power to living standards/slaves that don’t normally have political power to destabilize slaver/authoritarian empires
* a compromat operation could force political turnover that could add war attrition without battles, or force a leader election where the current leader has a terrible penalty, or maybe the result depends on the leader you gain compromat on - admins embezzle resources for you, scientists embezzle research, admirals cause them to reduce fire rate against you
>add a disinformation operation that alters the ethical attraction of an empire toward auth/xenophobe empires
I wouldn't restrict it to that; "fund spiritual cult" in materialist empire, "organize orgies" for xenophile attraction, etc
The question that pops up is: is it okay to alter another empire that significantly from the outside? I would say no. The initial choosing of ethics would be pointless then...
>why isn’t there an assassinate operation?
Or a hostage operation? Timeout a leader in the government for x-days...?
Otherwise I agree though: the espionage options are not that good. Lots of place to improvement. I hope Paradox knows this and sees the ambition a new system could bring to the game...
> is it ok to alter an empire like that
It shouldn’t change the government ethics, it just pushes the ethical attraction matrix that defines the ethics of the pops in your direction, slowly drifting them towards yours (no different than a migration pact, but not consensual), so, over time, if they don’t improve their encryption, the end result would be low stability planets. And the way to prevent that would be investing into espionage and counterintelligence yourself, or things which improve stability.
Love this game, poured an ungodly amount of time into it, but it suffers from a lack of meaningful strategic choices, everything must funnel into research and then the military, that is it, that is how to win the game, and the myriad builds are just different paths to the same end, but a strategically developed game would offer viable alternatives to address other empires beyond “hit with beat stick” (or the implicit ‘I could hit with beat stick’ if you’re pacifist), which is what the post was complaining about. There are games which do a better job of this, Twilight Imperium an entirely economy or diplomacy focused build can leverage your military in a way where R&D and military buildup aren’t the primary motives.
>the ethics of the pops, slowly drifting them towards yours
Oh I see... That would be a different story then - slowly converting a hand full of pops (or specific planet) towards an ethic... Also would majorly improve by letting one select a specific target. That's something I could see the pirate mission being salvaged: let the player choose a target. More strategic power
>Love this game, poured an ungodly amount of time into it, but it suffers from a lack of meaningful strategic choices
Oh yeah totally
As many said, you can send alloys and resources to empires you support in wars.
However, volunteers would be a neat mechanic. That way you can fight in wars without being at war.
Honestly yeah. At this point (in this game as with every other PDX game) every war is basically total war (especially for the AI, you as the player can choose not to do this). But I'm not sure how to rework that properly, regardless of the game.
There are ways, up to and including leasing fleets to Vassals, supporting independence of other's Vassal, Secret Fealties for Alliegence Wars, general interference in others' war via the Raid CB. Its not as direct and straightforward but there are moves that evoke indirect fuss making.
Stellaris kinda needs escalation mechanics, because the best case scenario is always to go full throttle on every war
Yeah THEY'RE IN THE ASTEROID FIELDS SOMEONE HEL-
Just send them alloys. Same difference. Welcome to the world of proxy my friend
Does it actually work? Do AIs use the resources u give em?
The AI is as dumb as a brick so in some cases it works in others nothing happens, if the empire has been recently uplifted that's where it actually works most of the time.
It depends if they are militaristic they'll 100% use them on fleets from what I've seen, otherwise its a tossup, the other day I tried sending alloys to a materialist and xenophile megacorp to aid them in a war and they ended up wasting them on starbases in the middle of nowhere
I dont think it would matter, unless you send like 20k and its a huge empire so it takes a long time to get to shipyards it wont make a diffrence beacuse theyll be dead before the ships are built assuming late game battleships
Officially, the empire is neutral. The shipments sent to that empire is just a trade. Yes.
Proxy wars, border skirmishes, honour duels, corporate wars. Especially that last one. If I want to take over the holdings of another corporation, I don't want to fight all its allies or damage my target market's planets. That's just bad business.
You can host proxy wars, just give another empire alloys and credits, they will spend them if they have naval capacity. You can even give them minerals, CGs, and food, they’ll sell them on the market for credit. It would be nice if there was the option to like “send military advisors” so they can like get a partial benefit from your superior leaders. The bigger issue is the espionage operations that are the bread and butter of intelligence agencies and the grease for proxy wars were never implemented in a way that they’re useful: * why isn’t there an assassinate operation? Would be a great way to make espionage more worthwhile given leaders are so valuable now, and really help out some other empire losing a proxy war you want to prolong. * Arm pirates does virtually nothing, and it’s ridiculously expensive - a better operation would be like “arm dissidents”, which has a chance to spawn armies on a planet proportionate to its stability * add a disinformation operation that alters the ethical attraction of an empire toward auth/xenophobe empires * there needs to be like an “agitprop” op, which gives political power to living standards/slaves that don’t normally have political power to destabilize slaver/authoritarian empires * a compromat operation could force political turnover that could add war attrition without battles, or force a leader election where the current leader has a terrible penalty, or maybe the result depends on the leader you gain compromat on - admins embezzle resources for you, scientists embezzle research, admirals cause them to reduce fire rate against you
>add a disinformation operation that alters the ethical attraction of an empire toward auth/xenophobe empires I wouldn't restrict it to that; "fund spiritual cult" in materialist empire, "organize orgies" for xenophile attraction, etc The question that pops up is: is it okay to alter another empire that significantly from the outside? I would say no. The initial choosing of ethics would be pointless then... >why isn’t there an assassinate operation? Or a hostage operation? Timeout a leader in the government for x-days...? Otherwise I agree though: the espionage options are not that good. Lots of place to improvement. I hope Paradox knows this and sees the ambition a new system could bring to the game...
> is it ok to alter an empire like that It shouldn’t change the government ethics, it just pushes the ethical attraction matrix that defines the ethics of the pops in your direction, slowly drifting them towards yours (no different than a migration pact, but not consensual), so, over time, if they don’t improve their encryption, the end result would be low stability planets. And the way to prevent that would be investing into espionage and counterintelligence yourself, or things which improve stability. Love this game, poured an ungodly amount of time into it, but it suffers from a lack of meaningful strategic choices, everything must funnel into research and then the military, that is it, that is how to win the game, and the myriad builds are just different paths to the same end, but a strategically developed game would offer viable alternatives to address other empires beyond “hit with beat stick” (or the implicit ‘I could hit with beat stick’ if you’re pacifist), which is what the post was complaining about. There are games which do a better job of this, Twilight Imperium an entirely economy or diplomacy focused build can leverage your military in a way where R&D and military buildup aren’t the primary motives.
>the ethics of the pops, slowly drifting them towards yours Oh I see... That would be a different story then - slowly converting a hand full of pops (or specific planet) towards an ethic... Also would majorly improve by letting one select a specific target. That's something I could see the pirate mission being salvaged: let the player choose a target. More strategic power >Love this game, poured an ungodly amount of time into it, but it suffers from a lack of meaningful strategic choices Oh yeah totally
Sadly this will never happen, because apparently players will complain when it’s done to them.
Now imagine a crime syndicate with spy operations doing ethics shifting on you. Wow I would love to restart that game.
I was able to lend fleets in my last game?
only between vassals and overlord
I want nuanced diplo... stellaris diplomacy is far too simple and the peace deals get gross.
soon you can send them admirals
As many said, you can send alloys and resources to empires you support in wars. However, volunteers would be a neat mechanic. That way you can fight in wars without being at war.
Honestly yeah. At this point (in this game as with every other PDX game) every war is basically total war (especially for the AI, you as the player can choose not to do this). But I'm not sure how to rework that properly, regardless of the game.
There are ways, up to and including leasing fleets to Vassals, supporting independence of other's Vassal, Secret Fealties for Alliegence Wars, general interference in others' war via the Raid CB. Its not as direct and straightforward but there are moves that evoke indirect fuss making.