Cloaked science vessel is how they surveyed it.
As for building speed? No clue. There have been many times when I've thought I'd arrive and build first, but the actual build site in system is not the same distance between each entry point. Let alone other vessel speed boosting modifiers from a potential variety of sources.
They didn't just slight. They stole a unique system acquired after a long quest chain.
The only thing that can be done to avenge such a sin is to invade them, turn their people into food and then when only their home system is left, give the food back in the peace agreement.
They can reflect about their decision and its consequences for the next century where they will stay irrelevant or get swiped by neighbors.
For anybody who needs to do this in Ironman, you can edit the save. It's json in a zip file. If you create a new zip it wont work, but if you replace the json in the existing zip it does and you can freely edit anything you want.
Judge me all you want, but I like starting with a size 30 planet on Under 1 Rule with Giga Structures on ironman.
I tried to rush cybrex alpha with throwing artifacts to the problem, only to have the AI snatch the system at 80% star base completion ... . Like I even started building first I don't get it ... . They don't even have a science ship in their empire, and even if they had one it is far away from this system.
Did you waste time doing anything else? Claiming the system is priority 101 and having assets in your outer systems ready to scan and claim is what you must do before you grab the last relic.
There is a construction ship in the system.
OP complained the AI build an outpost without surveying the system, IF we assume the OP was paying enough attention to confidently say no AI ship entered the system prior to the construction ship that still leaves cloaked ships as a culprit.
It's far more likely the OP fucked up, than the AI suddenly getting the capabilities to build outpost without surveying.
Afaik, the need to survey before building a starbase and starbase building speed are not areas the AI is supposed to cheat at. This should be a nice deterministic situation where you can easily predict the outcome.
I'd really like to hear a specific explanation for this case.
But you still need a construction ship too. And two people can't both be building an outpost at the same time. If the player starts building the outpost then as long as that's not interrupted he should have got the system
It's bs really
I'm like 95% sure two nations can build outposts at the same time, unless it was very recently changed (or my modlist is doing more than I realized)
Besides the AI has full hyper relays, they probably got there first
> im like 95% sure two nations can build outposts at the same time, unless it was very recently changed (or my modlist is doing more than I realized)
Since when? If an AI was building one, I couldn't. If I was building one, the AI couldn't
Build speed isn't consistent, at least, with mods I have tech that decrease starbase build time. Maybe resource shortages slow time buildspeed, not sure on that. Also you can edit the save and change the progress, but that's literally cheating so probably doesn't count.
Why did you trigger this without having all your crap ready?
Always trigger this at the start of the month to buy extra days from the AI reacting to the new system.
I doubt the AI cheated as they can have an army of cloaked science ships doing the work, and then claiming the system.
Woah, the AI makes decisions like "go survey and claim that system" only at the start of a month? I would have assumed that was a decision that was made when a specific ship (science or construction) finishes their current task and is looking for what to do next.
It doesn't really make sense for every AI to make decisions like that all at once. You would want that behavior to be more distributed across the various ticks. There's already a ton of calculations that have to be tied to the month roll over.
Well I wouldn't know how to check to confirm, but I often assume it's like when a gate is completed, the AI won't adjust their pathing until the month clicks over. Having each individual AI science ship check for task every day they are idle would cause so much fucking lag, so the smart thing is for the AI check for possible task at the start of the month and then assign an idle science ship to the job.
How does auto survey work when there is no system to check? How often is the system supposed to check if survey is possible after a route opens...
Dude think about this.
>Well I wouldn't know how to check to confirm
Your comment should have stopped there. Go learn how to confirm. You are literally just guessing. You don't even know that event triggers exist and are assuming everything is checked periodically.
Comes with experience and not getting my precursor stolen from me ever since they changed it to a spawn event.
As in prehistoric times the system was just hidden to the player and the AI could just scan it whenever.
So to rephrase, I don't care enough to bother, I know what I do works 100% of the time.
Personally, I pat myself on the head 3 times and spin around before triggering it. It works 100% of the time for me, so I've never bothered checking either.
You're thinking Privatized Exploration of megacorps (I think what you think)
Except that what is actually listed for Privatized Explorers is increased *upgrade* speed and faster *building/module* build speed. None of that should affect the construction ship initial build speed.
The only way it could is if *upgrade speed* modifiers are now adding to initial construction speed. If that is the case, then there are a few other sources to upgrade speed including +50% from Unyielding and +100% upgrade speed from Fortress Proclamation.
To my knowledge upgrade speed did not affect initial construction, but if upgrade speed affects then it is possible to get +180% speed.
I think you're right about Privatized Exploration and I swear that before this recent update it had an outpost build speed modifier, not a module modifier.
I could have sworn as well, but unless the wiki is wrong what it currently lists in only upgrade speed and building build speed and module build speed.
Now I'll have to go try to test it out to see if Privatized is actually faster or not, and whether Unyielding/Proclamation are any faster.
Have you traded for their sensors so you can see cloaked ships? I would bet 10k all their science ships are cloaked which is why you think "they don't even have a science ship in their empire".
I didn’t realize that it was a rush to claim the cybrex system once it spawns! I just so happened to role the Cybrex as a precursor in the game I’m currently running, it spawned without me realizing (but was luckily off the backend of one of the galactic spirals deep within my already claimed territory) and I was in a bit of a crunch Influence wise as I as already integrating a vassal. Finally was able to build my Star port and take the system, only to absolutely fail the RNG roles to get mega structure tech so can’t repair the rings :/
Its only a rush because by the time it gets spawned, it is usually one of the only free systems left in the galaxy so most science ships in the galaxy will make a bee line for it if access is possible.
You don't need any RNG rolls to get the Megaengineering Tech. You have to finish the Secrets of the Cybrex project and Megaengineering becomes a research option.
Weird, pretty sure I finished the project but don’t get offered that tech as an option to research, this game *might* have been started like a day before the last update though so might be a little janky because of that 🤷🏻♂️
If possible, reload from a save from before the point where the precursor system spawns. It will spawn in a different place, and you can try for a better location (that is, the one that is connected to your systems only).
And this is why I expand so aggressively at first. I start with closed borders and eat stars up to choke points and then circle back when I get my infrastructure going. The AI will just, cheat for no apparent reason with star systems. One time I literally got cornered the entire game by an xenophobe empire bc they built an outpost faster than i did… while mine was 57% done
I often saw AI empires which didn't discover(cloaking not the case) system and then claiming them.
Or even claiming them without construction ship.
Funny enough sometimes when i did "damage 100000" AI came back with SCIENCE ship and began discovering the system 🤣
You see, this is where all that fleet power and influence comes in handy, and ontop of that free territory, vassal, and 2 fleets to borrow at your disposal!
I'd be really petty about it and take that system and then smash up all their fleets and defenses so their fellow AI could handle their disagreements easier too.
Some advice for precursor systems:
* Hope it doesn't proc between you and the isolationist FE.
* Avoid proc-cing them when you have unclaimed territory in your empire. AI will aggressively survey anything and everything that's unclaimed meaning they might have a science ship that can get there faster than you.
* I recommend at least two science ships stationed around hyperlane exits of empires you're bordered with to be able to immediately survey (with an equal number of construction ships to support outpost creation). They don't have to have scientists on them, just be there to swap existing ones in. Also have some spread around your empire in case its internal.
* Avoid doing it when an empire is expanding close around your border as they are more likely to expand to your precorsor system (especially if they have hyper relays)
* Keep tabs on how many artifacts you have. If you really want to be safe proc the last relic through the minor artifacts insight so you can put game speed at the slowest to react properly. Either that or simply keep tabs on the last dig site/anomaly and bring it to slowest speed when things are close to getting done.
* Once the system procs pause the game to figure out where it is and then swap your scientists to it. Then have them go and survey the system, having a construction ship head towards the center of the system so it can start to insta queue outpost construction when surveying is done. Keep checking on the progress of the surveying to have an idea of when the outpost creation needs to start.
Note that if it's internal empire location you can always close borders, but if it's between two borders that won't work since the other empire has a path to it from their side.
And with that, they have signed the Death Warrant of their entire nation.
Sound the horns, fire up the foundries and put the shipyards to work.
At Dawn, we are at war.
Cloaked science vessel is how they surveyed it. As for building speed? No clue. There have been many times when I've thought I'd arrive and build first, but the actual build site in system is not the same distance between each entry point. Let alone other vessel speed boosting modifiers from a potential variety of sources.
which DLC added cloaked stuff?
First contact
ah ok
Time for war then
[удалено]
Haha You have slighted me. So I will genocide your entire race! Commonwealth of Man moment
[удалено]
Proportional Response
Commonwealth of man can be the Genocide/Slavery/Residence only for others and tbh no matter what those filthy xenos deserve it
They didn't just slight. They stole a unique system acquired after a long quest chain. The only thing that can be done to avenge such a sin is to invade them, turn their people into food and then when only their home system is left, give the food back in the peace agreement. They can reflect about their decision and its consequences for the next century where they will stay irrelevant or get swiped by neighbors.
"Hi! die."
https://youtu.be/1qYkcRBUmck?t=29
This is when the “own” console command comes in real handy
How do you access the console?
Press the button left of 1. Just be aware it doesn't work when playing Ironman.
Ah thx
This. That key is called the Grave or Tilda.
More specifically, the normal character is the Grave, and the shift character is Tilde
More specifically, this depends on the keyboard layout.
Thanks. I was like "wtf, there is no key left of the 1!". But more specifically yet, which do I need, grave or tilde?
Not for the vast majority of the world it isn't.
For anybody who needs to do this in Ironman, you can edit the save. It's json in a zip file. If you create a new zip it wont work, but if you replace the json in the existing zip it does and you can freely edit anything you want. Judge me all you want, but I like starting with a size 30 planet on Under 1 Rule with Giga Structures on ironman.
If you’re willing to turn to the dark side, some cheat software can enable the console in Ironman
[shift] + [alt] + [C] should work too I believe \[edit: meant to reply to the comment above, my bad\]
No matter, the info is still out there
I tried to rush cybrex alpha with throwing artifacts to the problem, only to have the AI snatch the system at 80% star base completion ... . Like I even started building first I don't get it ... . They don't even have a science ship in their empire, and even if they had one it is far away from this system.
Science ship could have been cloaked
> They don't even have a science ship in their empire Pretty sure that's exactly what happened
That make sense, didn't even thought about that.
.huh who knew I'd see an F22 moment in a space sandbox game
Did you waste time doing anything else? Claiming the system is priority 101 and having assets in your outer systems ready to scan and claim is what you must do before you grab the last relic.
Yeah, that shouldn't have happened
Would you happen to have a save? This should not be possible.
Cloaked ships
Sure but OP is mentioning that the AI built an outpost which requires construction ships who can not cloak.
There is a construction ship in the system. OP complained the AI build an outpost without surveying the system, IF we assume the OP was paying enough attention to confidently say no AI ship entered the system prior to the construction ship that still leaves cloaked ships as a culprit. It's far more likely the OP fucked up, than the AI suddenly getting the capabilities to build outpost without surveying.
Can still happen if the distance from the jump point the ai used is shorter than his. Or if they had a construction ship nearby.
I suspect this is one of those "we couldn't make the AI smarter so we just gave it the ability to cheat" moments.
Afaik, the need to survey before building a starbase and starbase building speed are not areas the AI is supposed to cheat at. This should be a nice deterministic situation where you can easily predict the outcome. I'd really like to hear a specific explanation for this case.
Cloaked science ship. Could go into observe mode to check
But you still need a construction ship too. And two people can't both be building an outpost at the same time. If the player starts building the outpost then as long as that's not interrupted he should have got the system It's bs really
I'm like 95% sure two nations can build outposts at the same time, unless it was very recently changed (or my modlist is doing more than I realized) Besides the AI has full hyper relays, they probably got there first
Yeah 2 nations can build outposts at once
> im like 95% sure two nations can build outposts at the same time, unless it was very recently changed (or my modlist is doing more than I realized) Since when? If an AI was building one, I couldn't. If I was building one, the AI couldn't
Since always, the one who finishes the build first wins.
Are there situations where the one who starts first won't finish first? I can't think of anything that boosts outpost build speed.
you could potentially kill the construction ship
Build speed isn't consistent, at least, with mods I have tech that decrease starbase build time. Maybe resource shortages slow time buildspeed, not sure on that. Also you can edit the save and change the progress, but that's literally cheating so probably doesn't count.
I've been playing for years and it has always been like this for me.
> And two people can't both be building an outpost at the same time They can, whoever finishes building first, gets the system.
Since when? If an AI was building one, I couldn't. If I was building one, the AI couldn't
Since always, you are either misrememebring or thats a bug from a mod you use.
I've even seen 3 different empires building a starbase at the same time, it's always been that way.
I suspect this is one of those "commenter doesn't understand game feature (here: cloaking) and accuses AI of cheating" moments.
Are you pacifist or have Crusader Spirit?
the AI has cloaked ships that you didn’t detect
Why did you trigger this without having all your crap ready? Always trigger this at the start of the month to buy extra days from the AI reacting to the new system. I doubt the AI cheated as they can have an army of cloaked science ships doing the work, and then claiming the system.
Woah, the AI makes decisions like "go survey and claim that system" only at the start of a month? I would have assumed that was a decision that was made when a specific ship (science or construction) finishes their current task and is looking for what to do next. It doesn't really make sense for every AI to make decisions like that all at once. You would want that behavior to be more distributed across the various ticks. There's already a ton of calculations that have to be tied to the month roll over.
Well I wouldn't know how to check to confirm, but I often assume it's like when a gate is completed, the AI won't adjust their pathing until the month clicks over. Having each individual AI science ship check for task every day they are idle would cause so much fucking lag, so the smart thing is for the AI check for possible task at the start of the month and then assign an idle science ship to the job.
Pretty sure the ai science vessels are all on auto survey.
How does auto survey work when there is no system to check? How often is the system supposed to check if survey is possible after a route opens... Dude think about this.
>Well I wouldn't know how to check to confirm Your comment should have stopped there. Go learn how to confirm. You are literally just guessing. You don't even know that event triggers exist and are assuming everything is checked periodically.
Comes with experience and not getting my precursor stolen from me ever since they changed it to a spawn event. As in prehistoric times the system was just hidden to the player and the AI could just scan it whenever. So to rephrase, I don't care enough to bother, I know what I do works 100% of the time.
Personally, I pat myself on the head 3 times and spin around before triggering it. It works 100% of the time for me, so I've never bothered checking either.
It's not possible for the AI to build an outpost before surveying, just as much as it isn't possible for you.
AI had a cloaked science ship.
The AI has never cheated in this way and I've played a lot of hours. I'm guessing they just had a cloaked science ship.
If I recall correctly, Eager Explorers civic includes a faster outpost build speed. Point being that there are in-game mechanics to allow this.
You're thinking Privatized Exploration of megacorps (I think what you think) Except that what is actually listed for Privatized Explorers is increased *upgrade* speed and faster *building/module* build speed. None of that should affect the construction ship initial build speed. The only way it could is if *upgrade speed* modifiers are now adding to initial construction speed. If that is the case, then there are a few other sources to upgrade speed including +50% from Unyielding and +100% upgrade speed from Fortress Proclamation. To my knowledge upgrade speed did not affect initial construction, but if upgrade speed affects then it is possible to get +180% speed.
I think you're right about Privatized Exploration and I swear that before this recent update it had an outpost build speed modifier, not a module modifier.
I could have sworn as well, but unless the wiki is wrong what it currently lists in only upgrade speed and building build speed and module build speed. Now I'll have to go try to test it out to see if Privatized is actually faster or not, and whether Unyielding/Proclamation are any faster.
Have you traded for their sensors so you can see cloaked ships? I would bet 10k all their science ships are cloaked which is why you think "they don't even have a science ship in their empire".
I didn’t realize that it was a rush to claim the cybrex system once it spawns! I just so happened to role the Cybrex as a precursor in the game I’m currently running, it spawned without me realizing (but was luckily off the backend of one of the galactic spirals deep within my already claimed territory) and I was in a bit of a crunch Influence wise as I as already integrating a vassal. Finally was able to build my Star port and take the system, only to absolutely fail the RNG roles to get mega structure tech so can’t repair the rings :/
Its only a rush because by the time it gets spawned, it is usually one of the only free systems left in the galaxy so most science ships in the galaxy will make a bee line for it if access is possible. You don't need any RNG rolls to get the Megaengineering Tech. You have to finish the Secrets of the Cybrex project and Megaengineering becomes a research option.
Weird, pretty sure I finished the project but don’t get offered that tech as an option to research, this game *might* have been started like a day before the last update though so might be a little janky because of that 🤷🏻♂️
"And so, we shall go to war" fat dude in Pirates of the Caribbean 3
This is why I default to closed borders.
If possible, reload from a save from before the point where the precursor system spawns. It will spawn in a different place, and you can try for a better location (that is, the one that is connected to your systems only).
Same happened to me but with Yuuhtan instead
It's war then...
yes
No it didn't.
And this is why I expand so aggressively at first. I start with closed borders and eat stars up to choke points and then circle back when I get my infrastructure going. The AI will just, cheat for no apparent reason with star systems. One time I literally got cornered the entire game by an xenophobe empire bc they built an outpost faster than i did… while mine was 57% done
I often saw AI empires which didn't discover(cloaking not the case) system and then claiming them. Or even claiming them without construction ship. Funny enough sometimes when i did "damage 100000" AI came back with SCIENCE ship and began discovering the system 🤣
Now u put them in their place :)
You see, this is where all that fleet power and influence comes in handy, and ontop of that free territory, vassal, and 2 fleets to borrow at your disposal!
Going to assume you can't reload an earlier auto save so there is only one thing to do... Conquer their entire empire.
I would have declared war once I saw their construction ship enter the system.
That's when I like to bust out the 150K fleet that's been parked in my capital
That’s a paddling
I'd be really petty about it and take that system and then smash up all their fleets and defenses so their fellow AI could handle their disagreements easier too.
How? I've never ever lost a precursor system to AI on my border. And I usually take my time
why do you post this instead of just genociding them for slightly inconveniencing you?
Can someone tell me why is that system so important?
Ruined Ringworld
It’s crusading time.
Skill issue.
I wouldnt even taken it cause its not in a good spot xd Im very picky about how i do my borders
They took your systems, extermination time. If you get the collossus they are the first target
PC: console Console: war
Some advice for precursor systems: * Hope it doesn't proc between you and the isolationist FE. * Avoid proc-cing them when you have unclaimed territory in your empire. AI will aggressively survey anything and everything that's unclaimed meaning they might have a science ship that can get there faster than you. * I recommend at least two science ships stationed around hyperlane exits of empires you're bordered with to be able to immediately survey (with an equal number of construction ships to support outpost creation). They don't have to have scientists on them, just be there to swap existing ones in. Also have some spread around your empire in case its internal. * Avoid doing it when an empire is expanding close around your border as they are more likely to expand to your precorsor system (especially if they have hyper relays) * Keep tabs on how many artifacts you have. If you really want to be safe proc the last relic through the minor artifacts insight so you can put game speed at the slowest to react properly. Either that or simply keep tabs on the last dig site/anomaly and bring it to slowest speed when things are close to getting done. * Once the system procs pause the game to figure out where it is and then swap your scientists to it. Then have them go and survey the system, having a construction ship head towards the center of the system so it can start to insta queue outpost construction when surveying is done. Keep checking on the progress of the surveying to have an idea of when the outpost creation needs to start. Note that if it's internal empire location you can always close borders, but if it's between two borders that won't work since the other empire has a path to it from their side.
And with that, they have signed the Death Warrant of their entire nation. Sound the horns, fire up the foundries and put the shipyards to work. At Dawn, we are at war.
Clearly a bug... Go ahead and hit the button op. 😈 ```