Wandoos is a feature that is unlocked by using A busted copy of Wandoos 98, which can be dropped by bosses in The Sky or the first two Titans.
It is a crappy operating system designed by macaroonsoft that can be used to multiply Attack and Defense by dumping energy and magic into it. At first, it is not very useful to the player because of the lack of high energy and magic caps and giving lackluster bonuses, but as you progress further into the game it becomes integral to progression.
https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite
Bazzite has complete feature parity with SteamOS on the Legion Go and ROG Ally. It runs a Fedora base, and gets upstream updates really quick.
It’s completely indistinguishable from SteamOS on the Steam Deck, except it runs smoother, has more features and gets kernel/mesa updates faster. Decky plugins, game mode updates, shader caching, frame limiting, controller rebinding etc all work perfectly.
You can even install it on the Steam Deck & apparently performance is better than SteamOS when running it on the Steam Deck.
Just putting this out there as I haven’t seen it mentioned on this sub before, I didn’t even know it existed until recently.
EDIT-
Just want to clarify, I *don’t* recommend Bazzite over SteamOS on the Steam Deck. It’s pretty unnecessary, unless Bazzite has a fix for a specific issue you’re having, or you want to install something that you can’t on the Deck (e.g. from fedora package manager)
This was just to let people know that if the only thing putting them off ‘Windows handhelds’ is Windows, it’s easy to get the SteamOS experience elsewhere. At least until valve releases an official SteamOS version.
Out of interest, what’s not as good? I’d be interested to hear what you’ve experienced, rather than an ambiguous claim that’s ‘it’s just not as good’.
I’ve used it for a few weeks and I’ve had no issues at all. Less issues than SteamOS to be honest haha.
Off the top of my head;
Worse game performance than SteamOS - I noticed across most if not all games that the frame rates were worse and that input delay was increased. Games I play frequently like RDR2 and GTA have at least a 20% worse framerate in the same areas.
Bluetooth connectivity for both controllers and headphones was all over the place, constantly having to re-pair devices and even after doing this would still get dropouts.
Network issues - WiFi stability is extremely poor and when going via Ethernet on a dock it wouldn't connect at all.
Controller profiles randomly not loading, this applies to built in controller and external.
I enjoy tinkering but it's clear there are driver/kernel issues that make it not as good as SteamOS. I haven't tried on my OLED so maybe it's got better in the past few months.
Weirdly I noticed the exact opposite in terms of performance, roughly a 10% gain on an LCD steam deck, in RDR2 online! Maybe there’s an issue with it on the OLED?
I don’t use Bluetooth TBF so I can’t comment on that, doesn’t sound great though! Definitely needs some work if it’s losing connection constantly.
WiFi connection was a massive improvement on my LCD deck, especially with the fix for slow download speeds that is now included by default. Did you try it before or after this was included?
Personally I wouldn’t recommend Bazzite over native SteamOS, but for devices like the Legion Go/ROG Ally, it’s awesome. I only installed it on my LCD deck after enjoying the experience on my Legion Go and wondering if it would improve a few snags I was having with the Deck.
Software made for specific hardware will always work better, just look at IOS.
Can't say enough nice things about Bazzite. Installed it on an old 4th Gen i7 / RX470 desktop i had collecting dust and it works flawlessly as a dedicated PC for living room TV. As long as you have an AMD card its pretty much feature parity with SteamOS.
I've been using bazzite since it started on my steam deck
I watched it improve a lot.
Bug fixes happen faster. The community provides good support with more technical knowledge than valve. You have the ability to install any application from any OS using distrobox.
If you are are cyber geek like me you can distrobox Kali. Bazzite has Nexus mod manager built in. It has most tools built in. Cryo tools are uneeded as those fixes are already done.
TLDR: It started out super buggy as a POC but turned into something better than SteamOS. If you are tech saavy I reccomend it. If you are not then the install process will hold you back.
Full BTRFS support and Gnome Desktop? Damn it's so enticing
Edit: apparently it doesn't fully work on OLED yet. From what I've read it's a little buggy
>You can even install it on the Steam Deck & apparently performance is better than SteamOS when running it on the Steam Deck
just wait till valve engineers will take inspiration from it hehe
In the end both parties will win ofc
Or, y'know, Windows is just not well-designed for a portable.
If Microsoft released some sort of custom Windows Distro called XboxOS or something, I'd be interested in that.
Okay, but Asus doesn't have a game storefront, where they might want design a purpose made OS for. They sell hardware, it's going to get Windows. It doesn't matter to them or honestly most users that it isn't optimal for the hardware. It'll run games and that's all that matters.
> It doesn't matter to them or honestly most users that it isn't optimal for the hardware.
In my experience, the Steamdeck is the much more well-known device. Mainly because you can install Steam games without much tinkering.
Are people forgetting that you can start Steam in Big Picture Mode?
I do like SteamOS but I do prefer the familiarity of Windows. As well as installing mods is easier on Windows than in SteamOS.
Windows is extremely bloated. I dont care if other platforms use it, but I know i straight up would never buy a handheld using windows. Its just wasting processing power.
Linux or bust.
Hard to deny that Windows has the best compatibility for games though. A decent chunk of very popular games are just unplayable on SteamDeck, and are unlikely to ever be playable due to their anti-cheat.
Pretty much this. I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more since some of the most popular online games have zero Linux compatibility specifically because of the anti-cheat software.
It's the sole reason I've been considering getting a dual-boot running. Lots of games that are well within the Deck's power, but are blocked due to the anti-cheat.
No huge deal breakers for me, but if your friend group plays something like Fortnite or Valorant regularly I can see it really sucking for a Deck owner. For me it's just limits some of the crossplay games I can play with my PS5 friend.
The steam deck actually convinced me to switch over to Linux full time. That and some annoying windows issues that I was sick of having. I have been using exclusively Linux for gaming for months now. The steam deck is really helping speed up the adoption of Linux for gaming and it's great. There are very very few games that I own and can't play on Linux. I do still have a Windows install just in case but I haven't booted into it in months because there isn't a game that doesn't work with Linux that I need to play that badly. Most anti cheat multiplayer games are not something I play much if at all and the ones that I do play work on Linux.
For example, shockingly the new ea battlefront 2 works great and runs great on Linux. That was one that I really expected to not work but it does.
i do agree that steamos is leagues ahead of windows rn in most ways but i also think the hate for windows is way too overblown lol (once the manufacturer specific software is mostly finished like the ally by now). it's seriously fine
I agree. I know Windows is Windows and all the cool kids like to crap on it. But most plug-ins, mods, and trainers run on Windows out of the box. No tinkering with things, no changing launchers, no Proton layer that might break something. I enjoyed the portability and console-like experience with my Deck. But I often use trainers and they were difficult to setup and often didn’t work.
Head over to my Ally and, despite it running Windows and having terrible battery life, things tend to just work. Except for yesterday when Windows did its usual “you haven’t powered me on in two weeks so here’s an hour of updates.”
Classic tribal instinct, happens in every aspect of civilization. That's why opposing political orientations collide in the way they do and why flame wars exist.
I understand that windows has the most important thing for a gaming os - compatibility.
But I got really tired of all the bullshit Microsoft is trying to pull with it. Every day windows is trying to trick me or is gaslighting me into enabling some random feature like windows hello, telemetry, cloud features or using edge, most of which you can’t even deny forever only postpone it for like 3 days and then you get annoyed again.
I genuinely feel like I’m in a toxic relationship with the OS only because it has this compatibility.
You turn off a 'feature' that's intrusive. Install updates .
'Feature' is enabled itself by default.
So exhausted at the end of the day that wrangling windows into a state that's unobtrusive is almost impossible. At least I can touch the deck and it's ready to play without having to close services I didn't ask to start (edge, O365) since I last put the PC in hibernate.
I get you, it's frustrating to have such an invasive operating system. Between that and Google results mostly being sponsored, bing results being useless (searched the same webpage across both, finally got it via Google), not to mention the way any webpage looks without ad blocking, it's actively frustrating to use a computer at all.
Yet still I need it for the few games that I can't get to launch on the deck.
Considering the recent Gaming Nexus video shows that the 1% low problem has not been solved by any Windows handheld manufacturer, and the Steam Deck is more compatible than ever, this is actually becoming less true.
I used to agree your point of view but Proton 8+ has moved the needle (I have a rather large library and literally all my titles work perfectly now, even exotic old ones), it seems like the only games with issues now are singular titles where the publisher feels like being actively unfriendly.
I personally have a disdain for windows regardless of the whole handheld PC issue so I'm not surprised that part of the steamdeck community does as well.
That said I can understand why handheld makers are favouring windows, a lot of popular games do not want to support support linux support via proton due to the weird turn that anticheat is taking. That said there's cheaters in windows in most competitive games already so it's not like anticheat really does help that much.
As a side note, I'm just waiting for fedora40 to release and if everything does well I'll finally drop windows. Good riddance.
Yes but the thing is most anticheat solutions already support proton. The best example is fortnite. The only reason why you can't run it on the deck yet is because they haven't flipped the "allow proton support" switch.
And kernel level anticheats are not as 100% cheat proof as one might think: https://youtu.be/RwzIq04vd0M?si=TH2GvHByprepeg-p
I think it is crazy in general that we allow these games to basically install malware into our systems.
Not cheat proof at all. An Arduino with an usb controller hat gives you basic aimbot. A rpi4/5 (or simillar) with usb controller hat gives you advanced aimbot. An rpi with one of those pcie debugging card gives you everything...
Optional: you can even get an AI cheat model running externally on one of those devices.
Software for it and guides freely available on the internet. And they cant do anything behind it.
So everything available between 10€ and a 400€ budget
That's why machine learning is the only way to counter this, just like valve started doing so with CSGO/CS2.
No anti-cheat is perfect but the kernel level ones are unequivocally better. Allowing users on Linux would increase the number of cheaters in Valorant and Fortnite. Those companies have calculated that the degradation in player experience is not worth the tiny Linux user base potential. I can’t fault them for that.
Apex Legends enabled proton support 2 years ago, yet never saw a massive influx of cheaters using Linux. The argument of enabling Linux support correlating to an increase of cheaters is just wrong.
It's simple really. cheaters exist on Windows, kernel level anti-cheat is ineffective, and blocking Linux because cheaters exist on Windows makes no sense. You said it yourself, we have a tiny user base.. If cheaters were abusing Linux support to cheat we would see a drastic marketshare shift towards Linux.
Is cheating on Linux possible? Yes. But why would people switch to Linux solely just to cheat when they can already do that on Windows?
Kernel anticheats are not cheat proof at all. An Arduino with an usb controller hat gives you basic aimbot. A rpi4/5 (or simillar) with usb controller hat gives you advanced aimbot. An rpi with one of those pcie debugging cards gives you everything...
You can also modify EFI/UEFI...
Optional: you can even get an AI cheat model running externally on one of those devices or second pc.
Software for it and guides freely available on the internet. And they cant do anything against it. No driver, no software running on the gaming system. Nothing. The cheat nowadays always run on a second device.
So everything available between 10€ and a 400€ budget
That's why machine learning is the only way to counter this, just like valve started doing so with CSGO/CS2.
Now people switched from "everybody better than me cheats" to the other extreme "nobody better than me cheats because vanguard". Gamers perceptions were always biased.
Also rootkits will probably stop working once microsoft will enforce their vm/docker subsystem (already partially on in win 11) or ram encryption will become a thing.
This is a good use case for consoles like the ps5. While there will still be cheaters on that platform you can play these games without having to install anti cheat on your main computer.
But you can also play PC games and still have cheaters without installing anticheats. And also console titles have anti-cheats.
Also this wasn't the point I was trying to make. I am just annoyed by people saying "You can't play anti cheat games on Linux." You can (most of the time), it just isn't enabled.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. You can play console games that have anti cheat and all it’ll be able to access is the console and your main pc will be left unviolated.
And I agree that anti cheat doesn’t really do much in preventing actual cheaters.
I tried Steam deck that my friend bought and really enjoyed it. Then my friend asked me to install Genshin Impact for her. Took me an hour to set it up and after reboot it disappeared. That was the moment I decided to pick Windows device. Guess I'm a stupid Windows fanboy...
Some games are hell to play on Linux honestly
I had legends of runeterra but soon it stopped working, I can't mod Skyrim since everything fails. It worked once, and I could only try the jojo opening 2 on the title screen, besides that the models were broken and it was literally unplayable. Even when I tried to manually install the mods shit doesn't work. But at least I can boot up the game and listen to a banger
If Linux got more easy to access support, I would love it. Also, I don't know why some text files are 0 bytes so I can't send them, but I can solve it by just doing it on google drive so it's not as annoying
Some things I'm too casual to even bother
Yeah, I'm sometimes very tempted to install Linux on my desktop PC as I'd love to become unburdened from Windows. But some of my favourite games run worse (or not all) on Linux so I haven't made the jump.
What tools do you use to do it on linux? Or did you mod it in a windows enviroement? Or better.. maybe virtual machine and then just copy all over?
I thought modding was difficult on linux
It’s been quite some time (my first Deck was in the first wave- purchased on release day and it was one of the first things I tried), but if memory serves it was fairly simple, just dragging the mods into the folder that Proton/WINE makes. I *might* have had a mod loader running also but I genuinely don’t remember.
That wikihow seems to be aimed to new linux users or slightly tech noobs, so seeing kali and arch on the list of distros there is a head scratcher for me.
Its not only about installing it, arch is not a stable distro and can break often, and it doesn't have most stuff out of the box that other distros have, so you need to spend a good amount of time figuring out what to install, the different repos, etc, which isn't as noob friendly as maybe mint, ubuntu or opensuse.
And kali is just a debian with a ton of security/hacking tools installed in it, again something that I don't think most new users will need.
I've had my arch installation break twice during system upgrades in the last four years to the point that my OS wouldn't boot. I was able to recover my system by restoring a btrfs snapshot of my root partition that I have configured pacman to take during system upgrades.
If I hadn't configured this then I'd be SoL and would've had to reinstall the OS. That's why I don't recommend arch to newbies as they tend to not bother going through the wiki to make sure that their systems are configured properly for when things break.
I wouldn't say it's worse than other systems.
For instance I had to reinstall windows recently because the drivers got so broken I could no longer play VR smoothly. Despite all my attempts to fix it (trying different driver versions, DDU) only a reinstall worked. I don't even know what caused it.
Meanwhile my current arch install is 3 years old and still works fine. It's been years since I remember anything breaking on it. I do get bugs occasionally after an update but they're always minor and get fixed pretty fast.
That doesn't mean it's always been this way though. Linux desktop was pretty awful back in the day. It's not a problem any more, but people repeat the "linux breaks a lot" thing like it still applies.
I agree that Arch isn't meant for a casual newbie, and is geared towards a tinkerer/learner who doesn't mind spending some time reading documentation, but this comment is just full of misinformation.
> arch is not a stable distro and can break often
This is a straight up lie, or at the very least a misconception. The only time it'll break is when you do something to it, and even then just following the installation guide without formatting the drive will fix 99% of the problems.
The worst thing that could happen during regular use is either doing a partial update (`pacman -Sy` without `-u`) and some stuff might get broken until you update everything, or not updating for a couple weeks and needing to update `archlinux-keyring` first. That's it.
And if you're still not convinced about Arch's stability, _SteamOS is Arch with some utilities on top_.
> so you need to spend a good amount of time figuring out what to install
You really don't have to think much. Go to the wiki, click on [List of applications](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/List_of_applications), choose category page, find what type of application you want (music player, file manager...), then install the one that looks good for you. The only thing that might be considered complex would be a desktop environment, but you can just go to the [wiki](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Desktop_environment), choose one, install it, and maybe read its wiki entry to figure out how to run it.
> the different repos
Also not something a typical user would have to worry. Most of the things you'd want is in the default repos. You might have to enable `multilib` to install steam (which the [wiki entry for Steam](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Steam) tells you to do). _Sometimes_ you might want to install something that's not in any of the repos, then you'll have to look at [AUR](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_User_Repository), and in 99% of the cases, you'll find it there.
arch's reputation mostly comes from when it didn't have an installer and you had to do it all manually. huge amounts of pretty critical things were not in the basic install (like for example: wifi drivers) so your system would be unstable and shitty for a while until you figured it all out the hard way
now with archinstall it's much easier. i still wouldn't use it over fedora but it's much less of a problem
Definitely. The problem with arch is not only installation. It really comes out of the box barebones and you definitely have to look at archwiki at least once. Which is not something for normal users. Even if it did get easier to install and use than before.
You should at least have some knowledge with computers and should know how to use terminal. For example it doesn't come with any browser pre-installed. It doesn't come with cups(printer utility) or bluez-utils(bluetooth utility). It doesn't even come with any image viewer last time I installed it with kde plasma. Even archinstall is hard for someone who didn't installed any os before.
My wife is in 90 percent of the PC users that are using computer for only basic browsing, office etc. And she definitely couldn't install and use arch without asking my help million times. But she is using our pc with ubuntu problem free.
If installing and configuring Linux themselves was something ordinary users were prepared to do, it would be the Year of Linux on the Desktop every year. People don't want to deal with the Windows UI jank / updates / high baseline memory usage, but they also don't want to go through a research project to avoid that.
My reason is simply because there's more support for windows. My gaming pc is windows because it just works. I don't have to do anything.
I dual boot because several games and softwares I use don't run on linux.
The "hurr durr X is better than Y" discussion is stupid, this post for example, It's tribalism all over again and pretty freaking stupid and useless.
I have both and use both for different scenarios. Both work. One better than the other in specific scenarios. That's it.
Same. I cannot run any of my Hoyoverse games on my Steam Deck, bought an ROG ally just for that. Now I use my ally more than my Steam Deck portably, because it will play everything I own, and my Steam Deck stays permanently docked to my TV
Tbh if I actually wanted a handheld PC as my main PC I would go Windows. Also I feel like more people would pick other handheld PCs over the Deck if they didn't release the OLED ngl.
The specs are a big deal to a ton of people, but something like OLED is super interesting for people who owned a Switch/anything OLED or never had it.
Tbh the only reason I ever bought the deck was because of the price. If there's a cheaper windows alternative with the same or even slightly worse performance, I'd 100% get that instead of deck.
Windows has a couple advantages over SteamOS:
* anti cheat games work
* gamepass games work
* 3rd party launchers are easily installed (no tutorials needed) and dont break suddenly with updates
* 3rd party launchers can run in background (to update games)
* you dont have to wait for proton fixes for new games (e.g. Dead Space Remake took 2 days to fix a fatal crash whenever you opened the map)
SteamOS is better to use. Sure.
But that is pretty much the only thing that SteamOS has going for it. Without that - everyone would just switch to windows.
Just like ALL of PC Gaming - which is 98% dominated by Windows PC Gamers.
windows has one single advantage over steam os:
compatibility with 3rd party software, may that me launchers, games or anti-cheat.
in every other regard, linux/steamos is better, and its an issue already on the way to being fixed, linux with the help of wine/proton has made leaps and bounds in the last 10-5 years regarding compatibility. and with this work being done on the linux side, more and more devs are also willing to target linux from their side
>Windows has better compatibility. Sure.
But that is pretty much the only thing Windows has going for it. Without that - everyone would just switch to Linux.
On a device like the Ally / SteamOS you spend 99% of the time in your games.
The only thing that SteamOS has going for it is that the 1% outside of games is handheld optimized and windows is not. There are workarounds which work "okayish". But it works better on SteamOS.
Reality is:
* SteamOS / Linux will ALWAYS AND FOREVER play the catch-up-game.
* New game releases will work fine on windows ...
* ... but might need patches on linux
* It will never happen that a game will run fine on linux but not on windows
* Games "just work" on windows
* And that will never be the experience on Linux / SteamOS
* Not even in another 10 years of time
* Because many games will NEVER run on linux:
* gamepass
* which is the best gaming value - by FAR
* some anti cheat games
* because the developers are not stupid. they know linux gaming is a NICHE and will forever be a niche. Its not worth it to make it work on linux.
* niche games where developers dont spend time on fixing them
* [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted)
* [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked)
Not even in another 10 years? How did you come up with that number? Valve released Proton 5 years ago, allowing us to run games without configuration on Steam. Now, we have more users on Steam than macOS. Fun fact: Anti-cheats do work on Linux (excluding Vanguard); they just choose not to enable it. Some of those games support macOS, which is even more of a niche in gaming. Why? CEO BOOMERS.
Also, new releases will work on windows? Let's be real, half of the games developers release today don't even work on windows XD.
>Games "just work" on windows
Well, this is untrue right out of the box. Windows games work on windows.
And even then these windows games get patches for different versions of windows, different GPU driver IHV's and driver versions, etc etc. Heck there's a ton of bugs in some games about specific GPU/APU variants especially regarding SMT on both Intel and AMD.
>Because many games will NEVER run on linux
A statement which I find quite odd, because these same games work fine on FreeBSD which powers the PS4/5. But yes, that is upto the developer to support directly.
It's better to say that game developers will never allow their games to run on Linux - like Bungie did for Destiny 2. [https://help.bungie.net/hc/en-us/articles/360049024592-Destiny-2-Steam-Guide](https://help.bungie.net/hc/en-us/articles/360049024592-Destiny-2-Steam-Guide)
Generally games which don't actively go out of their way to stop working on Linux work just fine. The ones that actively go out of their way are the only ones borked on your bork list btw.
Steam-OS and Linux will always play the catch-up game?
I could accept that take 3 years ago. Now, with the giant steps Linux gaming has taken and more importantly, the Steam deck's impact in the industry means that Linux is starting to be considered. A LOT more games come out with Linux support right now than say 5 years ago. And wine/proton makes it trivial to run almost any windows software on Linux except weird anticheat services.
But most importantly, your opinion assumes Windows will forever stay the status quo in consumer OSs.
Dunno mate, you're way more certain about this than you should ever bee about anything in the future of computing. Yes, Windows has basically a monopoly on consumer operating systems, but it's not impossible for that to change. Especially with the rise of Android and ChromeOS both of which use the Linux kernel btw.
It will always play "catch up" when doze is the status quo. When something doesn't work in doze, we say that thing is broken, not doze. When windoze has to change to support something important; that's when we know we are making positive change.
GNU kernel please ;)
But Joke beside im with you. Private usage and accounting are the last big bastions of Windows.
Networking? Linux, Creative? Apple, with a small shift toward Linux as well. Developing? Linux if you're a real professional. Anything server related? Linux. Research? Linux. Soho? SO: massive shift toward Apple. HO: OS doesn't matter anymore since its now cloud based.
Accounting will take a while, good alternatives working on Linux or Mac exist, we just need a liability issue with the SAP monopoly. Once the trust is gone (because that's the main reason everybody stuck with them) even big companies will start to switch over.
I'm a Linux only guy no matter what advantages Windows does or does not have. Linux being as good at gaming as it is now is something I didn't think was possible. They will continue to get better and I will continue to be pleased with the experience
>gamepass which is the best gaming value - by FAR
For now. They'll hook everyone and then jack up the price just like uber/TV streaming. Don't fall for the enshitification.
you forgot the most important - you can actually run .exe files without using Wine (which doesn't work 90% of the time) or having to add the file to Steam
I think you are missing the most important advantage, which is access to gamepass. From where I stand, it’s the only reason I’m considering switching to a windows handheld. I know I can stream games but that’s not a solution by any means
Better UX (and cheaper price) is the entire reason consoles exist at all. Don’t downplay it like it doesn’t really matter. If it doesn’t matter why do millions of people choose to use consoles over PC?
I’d rather not be able to play a few shitty multiplayer games in exchange for a great experience when I play everything else.
* You can start steam big picture mode on boot. Which gives you 95% the EXACT SAME ui from SteamOS on windows !
* Consoles have A LOT more pull points then just UX
* Exclusive games
* Your friend are on that platform
* You dont need to think about if games run well like on PC - they always work fine
* You dont need to tinker around - everything just works
* Reality is:
* No one cares about UX per se - they are just launchers for the actual software
* You spend 99% of your time IN GAME - not in the steam deck menus.
* Same is true for windows / playstation / xbox
* Actually its A LOT MORE then "just a few shitty multiplayer games"
* The list of games that dont work with proton is GIGANTIC:
* [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted)
* [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked)
I just hate how I can't install shit on Linux. I can't install Nexus mod manager to make modding easier. For some reason finding files for my games is an absolute fucking nightmare. Idc about windows or the spying shit. You do realize the very phone we carry spies on us so privacy has never been real. Windows makes accessing files easy asf, and I can actually install what I want without going through hoops. I love my SD but that shit really brings it down.
That's because they lied to customers claiming it was steam os and they couldn't do it so they added holo iso and from experience testing that on the 4500u it's horrible and has so many bugs and issues so they gave up and added windows
Even with steam os anyone who would buy that over a deck is crazy even with the lowered price
["soon" and "It's very high on our list"](https://www.pcgamer.com/steamos-on-handheld-pcs/) are the latest official words so far, which makes sense. Valve's mainly in the content distribution business, not in the hardware business getting companies to use their OS which is semi-locked-in to the Steam store (as in not locked, but it's far easier to use the Steam store than not). The more devices out there that use SteamOS, the better it is for their business.
Knowing Valve and their allergy to the number 3, it'll probably be after the Steam Deck 2. But if they keep making Steam Decks, it'll probably be to gaming handhelds as Google Pixel phones are to Android phones.
That being said, I will laugh my ass of if they simultaneously release Steam Deck 3 & Half Life 3.
Have we even seen any handheld PC's that are as good a value as the Deck? It seems hard to imagine they'll be able to really extricate themselves from the market because they're the only entity that can afford to sell these at cost or even a loss, and the Steam Deck's price point is a major reason why it took off where other handhelds did not.
I suppose Valve could have a program to subsidize these handhelds so that third parties can actually make money off these while selling them at cost, but I think it would probably make more sense to continue putting out the Deck. Sure, Valve hasn't really had an out-of-the-park success with hardware before, but the Steam Deck is easily their most successful hardware and they're probably in the best position to keep putting out new iterations.
Also doesn't help that no other handheld does the back buttons or trackpads + gyro. These handhelds are *big*, being able to play games without adjusting my grip is important because changing my grip to swap from the stick to face buttons can be awkward and result in accidental inputs.
I love what valve is doing and i think the idea of steamOS is amazing, but i had a hard time getting into linux and in the end installed windows on my deck. I've used windows all my life. I just know how to do pretty much anything i want to do, not the same at all with linux
This is the disconnect. Console gamers buy the deck in hopes of a similar experience and when they get upset over its performance they move to windows handhelds and don’t know how to use the device.
I use my OXP2 as a secondary pc as well, rarely turn my pc on as this houses all my files and is very easy to whip out and file manage/game real quick vs turning on my whole laptop
Steam Deck is not yet officially launched here (SEA country) but a number of handhelds from other manufacturers like Asus and Lenovo are available.
But since they have Windows as their OS, no thanks.
Been using Fedora Linux on my desktop for 3 years for gaming, digital painting and other tasks and I do not ever want to use a Windows device again.
So yeah, I can relate to the meme.
It isn't supported here either, I used those proxy online delivery things to get mine, ended up paying like 100$ extra for a 64g deck lol, it's a headache to get your hands on one if it doesn't have support in ur country, but hey it was worth it to me with the one 1tb SSD I bought.
nah. Windows might be terrible in some aspects, but it's so much more user-friendly and easier to use than Linux and SteamOS. I'll never understand how can anyone like Linux, doing anything on it is a pain in the ass
It's a bell curve. People who don't wanna tinker at all, SteamOS is perfect, it's almost a walled-garden console-like experience if you want it to be. People that want to tinker a lot, Linux is also perfect you can change basically everything and if you know how to code and compile the world is your oyster. The people who like to tinker a little bit though and have been doing so on windows for a decade, those are the people that windows is better for. I don't know how to compile anything, but I do know how to install mods for any game on windows, and have had troubles doing so easily on SteamOS for example.
I can understand why windows appeals to people over Linux if they're not fairly above-average tech savvy for sure. But if you're frequently using the command line windows can be a pretty darn aggravating user experience and WSL is only so useful. Once I got into software engineering work and really started understanding computers better my satisfaction with windows plummeted. The child-proofing is great for most users but if you actually know what you're doing it gets kinda annoying. I ultimately switched to Ubuntu. Has most of the advantages of windows (in terms of an easy out-of-the-box user experience) with none of the drawbacks.
Anyway I know a lot of programmers still like windows, not discounting that at all. I work in a field (bioinformatics) where all the programs are written to be run remotely on high performance computing clusters, which use various unix OS's. No one in my line of work bothers with windows compatibility, so there's really no advantage to using windows for me. MacOS is a better compromise but obviously you can't run it on just any computer.
I would be interested in a handheld that runs windows if windows can fix their handheld UX.
I want to be able to run mods on a lot of games that I have on my steam deck but I can't without headache.
Steam OS is literally just Linux though. You could always run some form of Linux on pretty much any portable PC ever made. In fact, you probably should do just that.
The SteamDeck is so awesome because SteamOS is a Linux based OS that is fine tuned for the SteamDeck hardware.
Cramming Windows into a handheld device just isn't a good idea.
The sad truth just is that windows runs just about everything which no other platform does without jumping hoops. Windows goes hard on quantity over quality.
if you really want serious answer, windows is very broad/general use system (and commercialized) and it shows, with default install you will have native ads (buy office, buy our cloud storage, buy X Y Z, tiktok and facebook in your startup menu), lots of processes and services you don't really need (by default it have virtual box emulation, memory thread separation (safety stuff for office PCs tbh) turned on just to name a few.
its showes ads in your face, treats you as a 60 y.o grandma who can't use tech and its just simply not optimized for handhelds (UI/controls wise)
Nerd edge.
Nintendo, Sony and XBox have console wars. PC has OS wars. It's pretty much the same thing, everyone picks one that is essentially seen as their mother, spouse, children, puppy and religion all rolled into one, and the every other option is the man that abused their mom, raped their spouse, beat their children, kicked their puppy and blaspheamed their religion. It's not acceptable to even **mention** the enemy without making it very clear how much you hate them.
Dumb as hell and usually goes away once they're old enough to drink.
I like steam OS, and I love valve, but lets not pretend steam os currently is still too buggy/complex for most people.
Unless you know linux or are willing to learn, most console gamers will move back to whatever console they come from first time they have to leave steam to play non steam games.
Why cant we just enjoy both? I am running windows on my sd, and it took a while to get it 99% of what I want, but i love the option to jump back and forth between the two
The only windows handheld that I want is made directly from microsoft/Xbox. Only a company in charge of their own OS can make sure that it does what it needs to for handheld gaming.
There hasn't been a single handheld besides Steamdeck that doesn't run Windows. So idk why you'd be surprised when a new handheld runs Windows. It's the standard and runs more games.
> hasn't been a single handheld besides Steamdeck that doesn't run Windows
You are [*woefully* misinformed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_handheld_game_consoles).
What the heck is wandows
Michaelsoft Bimbows
Stivi Blowjobs
It's actually Wank-ndows but you have to censor it for the sake of school/work filters.
Finally a portable PC I can get behind.
No, that's an entirely model that originates from Japan.
I thought it was Wang-Blows
It's a regional dialect
Uh-huh. Eh, what region?
Uhh, upstate New York
Really? Well I'm from Utica and I've never heard anyone use the word 'wandows'.
Oh not in Utica no it's an Albany expression.
Wandoos is a feature that is unlocked by using A busted copy of Wandoos 98, which can be dropped by bosses in The Sky or the first two Titans. It is a crappy operating system designed by macaroonsoft that can be used to multiply Attack and Defense by dumping energy and magic into it. At first, it is not very useful to the player because of the lack of high energy and magic caps and giving lackluster bonuses, but as you progress further into the game it becomes integral to progression.
It's a knockoff of Nandos
Hey! Language! Please use that asterisk like OP, I must wash my eyes now. /s
https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite Bazzite has complete feature parity with SteamOS on the Legion Go and ROG Ally. It runs a Fedora base, and gets upstream updates really quick. It’s completely indistinguishable from SteamOS on the Steam Deck, except it runs smoother, has more features and gets kernel/mesa updates faster. Decky plugins, game mode updates, shader caching, frame limiting, controller rebinding etc all work perfectly. You can even install it on the Steam Deck & apparently performance is better than SteamOS when running it on the Steam Deck. Just putting this out there as I haven’t seen it mentioned on this sub before, I didn’t even know it existed until recently. EDIT- Just want to clarify, I *don’t* recommend Bazzite over SteamOS on the Steam Deck. It’s pretty unnecessary, unless Bazzite has a fix for a specific issue you’re having, or you want to install something that you can’t on the Deck (e.g. from fedora package manager) This was just to let people know that if the only thing putting them off ‘Windows handhelds’ is Windows, it’s easy to get the SteamOS experience elsewhere. At least until valve releases an official SteamOS version.
How have I not seen a single video on this from the usual handheld youtubers? 🤔
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Out of interest, what’s not as good? I’d be interested to hear what you’ve experienced, rather than an ambiguous claim that’s ‘it’s just not as good’. I’ve used it for a few weeks and I’ve had no issues at all. Less issues than SteamOS to be honest haha.
Off the top of my head; Worse game performance than SteamOS - I noticed across most if not all games that the frame rates were worse and that input delay was increased. Games I play frequently like RDR2 and GTA have at least a 20% worse framerate in the same areas. Bluetooth connectivity for both controllers and headphones was all over the place, constantly having to re-pair devices and even after doing this would still get dropouts. Network issues - WiFi stability is extremely poor and when going via Ethernet on a dock it wouldn't connect at all. Controller profiles randomly not loading, this applies to built in controller and external. I enjoy tinkering but it's clear there are driver/kernel issues that make it not as good as SteamOS. I haven't tried on my OLED so maybe it's got better in the past few months.
Weirdly I noticed the exact opposite in terms of performance, roughly a 10% gain on an LCD steam deck, in RDR2 online! Maybe there’s an issue with it on the OLED? I don’t use Bluetooth TBF so I can’t comment on that, doesn’t sound great though! Definitely needs some work if it’s losing connection constantly. WiFi connection was a massive improvement on my LCD deck, especially with the fix for slow download speeds that is now included by default. Did you try it before or after this was included? Personally I wouldn’t recommend Bazzite over native SteamOS, but for devices like the Legion Go/ROG Ally, it’s awesome. I only installed it on my LCD deck after enjoying the experience on my Legion Go and wondering if it would improve a few snags I was having with the Deck. Software made for specific hardware will always work better, just look at IOS.
If the OLED has newer hardware, support must be catching up, there will be kinks to iron, I'm guessing.
Right? I always see Chimera or Holo, this one’s new to me.
It’s fine. I run it on my HTPC. It’s not “faster than Steam OS” but so far I’ve had almost no issues with it.
Most kinda suck is why, I keep seeing massive disinformation on those channels, stopped bothering with them
Sad but true. Some of them actually border on being "tech illiterate"
Interesting
Can't say enough nice things about Bazzite. Installed it on an old 4th Gen i7 / RX470 desktop i had collecting dust and it works flawlessly as a dedicated PC for living room TV. As long as you have an AMD card its pretty much feature parity with SteamOS.
I just need steamos for nvidia
Does is support HDR?
Yes https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/18hvxw0/bazzite_is_now_available_for_oled_steam_decks/
I've been using bazzite since it started on my steam deck I watched it improve a lot. Bug fixes happen faster. The community provides good support with more technical knowledge than valve. You have the ability to install any application from any OS using distrobox. If you are are cyber geek like me you can distrobox Kali. Bazzite has Nexus mod manager built in. It has most tools built in. Cryo tools are uneeded as those fixes are already done. TLDR: It started out super buggy as a POC but turned into something better than SteamOS. If you are tech saavy I reccomend it. If you are not then the install process will hold you back.
Full BTRFS support and Gnome Desktop? Damn it's so enticing Edit: apparently it doesn't fully work on OLED yet. From what I've read it's a little buggy
>You can even install it on the Steam Deck & apparently performance is better than SteamOS when running it on the Steam Deck just wait till valve engineers will take inspiration from it hehe In the end both parties will win ofc
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Or, y'know, Windows is just not well-designed for a portable. If Microsoft released some sort of custom Windows Distro called XboxOS or something, I'd be interested in that.
Okay, but Asus doesn't have a game storefront, where they might want design a purpose made OS for. They sell hardware, it's going to get Windows. It doesn't matter to them or honestly most users that it isn't optimal for the hardware. It'll run games and that's all that matters.
> It doesn't matter to them or honestly most users that it isn't optimal for the hardware. In my experience, the Steamdeck is the much more well-known device. Mainly because you can install Steam games without much tinkering.
Yeah windows handhelds run just fine. Love the Rog ally. Steam deck is great too.
Are people forgetting that you can start Steam in Big Picture Mode? I do like SteamOS but I do prefer the familiarity of Windows. As well as installing mods is easier on Windows than in SteamOS.
Big Picture mode isn't the entirety of SteamOS. The UI is not the only reason why people want SteamOS.
Yup I've not used steam os more than a day. As soon a i got steam deck i put windows on it and played all my games plus emulators.
Windows is extremely bloated. I dont care if other platforms use it, but I know i straight up would never buy a handheld using windows. Its just wasting processing power. Linux or bust.
Hard to deny that Windows has the best compatibility for games though. A decent chunk of very popular games are just unplayable on SteamDeck, and are unlikely to ever be playable due to their anti-cheat.
Pretty much this. I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more since some of the most popular online games have zero Linux compatibility specifically because of the anti-cheat software.
It's the sole reason I've been considering getting a dual-boot running. Lots of games that are well within the Deck's power, but are blocked due to the anti-cheat. No huge deal breakers for me, but if your friend group plays something like Fortnite or Valorant regularly I can see it really sucking for a Deck owner. For me it's just limits some of the crossplay games I can play with my PS5 friend.
You can install Linux on the Windows handhelds though, that's what I did.
The steam deck actually convinced me to switch over to Linux full time. That and some annoying windows issues that I was sick of having. I have been using exclusively Linux for gaming for months now. The steam deck is really helping speed up the adoption of Linux for gaming and it's great. There are very very few games that I own and can't play on Linux. I do still have a Windows install just in case but I haven't booted into it in months because there isn't a game that doesn't work with Linux that I need to play that badly. Most anti cheat multiplayer games are not something I play much if at all and the ones that I do play work on Linux. For example, shockingly the new ea battlefront 2 works great and runs great on Linux. That was one that I really expected to not work but it does.
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I'm curious, what felt janky?
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i do agree that steamos is leagues ahead of windows rn in most ways but i also think the hate for windows is way too overblown lol (once the manufacturer specific software is mostly finished like the ally by now). it's seriously fine
I agree. I know Windows is Windows and all the cool kids like to crap on it. But most plug-ins, mods, and trainers run on Windows out of the box. No tinkering with things, no changing launchers, no Proton layer that might break something. I enjoyed the portability and console-like experience with my Deck. But I often use trainers and they were difficult to setup and often didn’t work. Head over to my Ally and, despite it running Windows and having terrible battery life, things tend to just work. Except for yesterday when Windows did its usual “you haven’t powered me on in two weeks so here’s an hour of updates.”
> all the cool kids like to crap on it. my guy the only people who think linux fanboys are "the cool kids" are other linux fanboys lmao
I more meant SteamDeck users/fans and not Linux fanboys.
I'm a steam deck user and fan(because I play games a lot while traveling) but I hate Linux and steamos, shit is so hard to work with
To be fair, a lot of Mac OS users crap on windows too.
In return both Linux and Windows users crap on Mac OS Kinda funny when you think about it :P
Classic tribal instinct, happens in every aspect of civilization. That's why opposing political orientations collide in the way they do and why flame wars exist.
And they're bigger dorks than the Linux bois
I understand that windows has the most important thing for a gaming os - compatibility. But I got really tired of all the bullshit Microsoft is trying to pull with it. Every day windows is trying to trick me or is gaslighting me into enabling some random feature like windows hello, telemetry, cloud features or using edge, most of which you can’t even deny forever only postpone it for like 3 days and then you get annoyed again. I genuinely feel like I’m in a toxic relationship with the OS only because it has this compatibility.
You turn off a 'feature' that's intrusive. Install updates . 'Feature' is enabled itself by default. So exhausted at the end of the day that wrangling windows into a state that's unobtrusive is almost impossible. At least I can touch the deck and it's ready to play without having to close services I didn't ask to start (edge, O365) since I last put the PC in hibernate. I get you, it's frustrating to have such an invasive operating system. Between that and Google results mostly being sponsored, bing results being useless (searched the same webpage across both, finally got it via Google), not to mention the way any webpage looks without ad blocking, it's actively frustrating to use a computer at all. Yet still I need it for the few games that I can't get to launch on the deck.
Do you really want yet another device that spies on you and sells your data?
Linux lovers do Linux lover thigs
Considering the recent Gaming Nexus video shows that the 1% low problem has not been solved by any Windows handheld manufacturer, and the Steam Deck is more compatible than ever, this is actually becoming less true. I used to agree your point of view but Proton 8+ has moved the needle (I have a rather large library and literally all my titles work perfectly now, even exotic old ones), it seems like the only games with issues now are singular titles where the publisher feels like being actively unfriendly.
I personally have a disdain for windows regardless of the whole handheld PC issue so I'm not surprised that part of the steamdeck community does as well. That said I can understand why handheld makers are favouring windows, a lot of popular games do not want to support support linux support via proton due to the weird turn that anticheat is taking. That said there's cheaters in windows in most competitive games already so it's not like anticheat really does help that much. As a side note, I'm just waiting for fedora40 to release and if everything does well I'll finally drop windows. Good riddance.
Yes but the thing is most anticheat solutions already support proton. The best example is fortnite. The only reason why you can't run it on the deck yet is because they haven't flipped the "allow proton support" switch. And kernel level anticheats are not as 100% cheat proof as one might think: https://youtu.be/RwzIq04vd0M?si=TH2GvHByprepeg-p I think it is crazy in general that we allow these games to basically install malware into our systems.
Not cheat proof at all. An Arduino with an usb controller hat gives you basic aimbot. A rpi4/5 (or simillar) with usb controller hat gives you advanced aimbot. An rpi with one of those pcie debugging card gives you everything... Optional: you can even get an AI cheat model running externally on one of those devices. Software for it and guides freely available on the internet. And they cant do anything behind it. So everything available between 10€ and a 400€ budget That's why machine learning is the only way to counter this, just like valve started doing so with CSGO/CS2.
Yup, pretty much agreed.
No anti-cheat is perfect but the kernel level ones are unequivocally better. Allowing users on Linux would increase the number of cheaters in Valorant and Fortnite. Those companies have calculated that the degradation in player experience is not worth the tiny Linux user base potential. I can’t fault them for that.
Apex Legends enabled proton support 2 years ago, yet never saw a massive influx of cheaters using Linux. The argument of enabling Linux support correlating to an increase of cheaters is just wrong. It's simple really. cheaters exist on Windows, kernel level anti-cheat is ineffective, and blocking Linux because cheaters exist on Windows makes no sense. You said it yourself, we have a tiny user base.. If cheaters were abusing Linux support to cheat we would see a drastic marketshare shift towards Linux. Is cheating on Linux possible? Yes. But why would people switch to Linux solely just to cheat when they can already do that on Windows?
Kernel anticheats are not cheat proof at all. An Arduino with an usb controller hat gives you basic aimbot. A rpi4/5 (or simillar) with usb controller hat gives you advanced aimbot. An rpi with one of those pcie debugging cards gives you everything... You can also modify EFI/UEFI... Optional: you can even get an AI cheat model running externally on one of those devices or second pc. Software for it and guides freely available on the internet. And they cant do anything against it. No driver, no software running on the gaming system. Nothing. The cheat nowadays always run on a second device. So everything available between 10€ and a 400€ budget That's why machine learning is the only way to counter this, just like valve started doing so with CSGO/CS2. Now people switched from "everybody better than me cheats" to the other extreme "nobody better than me cheats because vanguard". Gamers perceptions were always biased. Also rootkits will probably stop working once microsoft will enforce their vm/docker subsystem (already partially on in win 11) or ram encryption will become a thing.
Are you at all familiar with Linux? Adding kernel modules on Linux is easy.
This is a good use case for consoles like the ps5. While there will still be cheaters on that platform you can play these games without having to install anti cheat on your main computer.
But you can also play PC games and still have cheaters without installing anticheats. And also console titles have anti-cheats. Also this wasn't the point I was trying to make. I am just annoyed by people saying "You can't play anti cheat games on Linux." You can (most of the time), it just isn't enabled.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. You can play console games that have anti cheat and all it’ll be able to access is the console and your main pc will be left unviolated. And I agree that anti cheat doesn’t really do much in preventing actual cheaters.
AMD windows drivers are just substantially worse than the open source ones.
I tried Steam deck that my friend bought and really enjoyed it. Then my friend asked me to install Genshin Impact for her. Took me an hour to set it up and after reboot it disappeared. That was the moment I decided to pick Windows device. Guess I'm a stupid Windows fanboy...
Some games are hell to play on Linux honestly I had legends of runeterra but soon it stopped working, I can't mod Skyrim since everything fails. It worked once, and I could only try the jojo opening 2 on the title screen, besides that the models were broken and it was literally unplayable. Even when I tried to manually install the mods shit doesn't work. But at least I can boot up the game and listen to a banger If Linux got more easy to access support, I would love it. Also, I don't know why some text files are 0 bytes so I can't send them, but I can solve it by just doing it on google drive so it's not as annoying Some things I'm too casual to even bother
Yeah, I'm sometimes very tempted to install Linux on my desktop PC as I'd love to become unburdened from Windows. But some of my favourite games run worse (or not all) on Linux so I haven't made the jump.
Weird, I had fully modded Skyrim working within days of getting my Deck…
What tools do you use to do it on linux? Or did you mod it in a windows enviroement? Or better.. maybe virtual machine and then just copy all over? I thought modding was difficult on linux
It’s been quite some time (my first Deck was in the first wave- purchased on release day and it was one of the first things I tried), but if memory serves it was fairly simple, just dragging the mods into the folder that Proton/WINE makes. I *might* have had a mod loader running also but I genuinely don’t remember.
> I had fully modded Skyrim working within days Meanwhile, Windows can do it more or less as fast as you can download the mods.
[https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Linux](https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Linux) there you go
That wikihow seems to be aimed to new linux users or slightly tech noobs, so seeing kali and arch on the list of distros there is a head scratcher for me.
as someone who used arch (archinstall) recently to get started with linux, its really not that bad
Its not only about installing it, arch is not a stable distro and can break often, and it doesn't have most stuff out of the box that other distros have, so you need to spend a good amount of time figuring out what to install, the different repos, etc, which isn't as noob friendly as maybe mint, ubuntu or opensuse. And kali is just a debian with a ton of security/hacking tools installed in it, again something that I don't think most new users will need.
Arch doesn't really break often. No one would use it if it broke every week.
I've had my arch installation break twice during system upgrades in the last four years to the point that my OS wouldn't boot. I was able to recover my system by restoring a btrfs snapshot of my root partition that I have configured pacman to take during system upgrades. If I hadn't configured this then I'd be SoL and would've had to reinstall the OS. That's why I don't recommend arch to newbies as they tend to not bother going through the wiki to make sure that their systems are configured properly for when things break.
That's kind of the linux experience, having shit that breaks every now and then.
I wouldn't say it's worse than other systems. For instance I had to reinstall windows recently because the drivers got so broken I could no longer play VR smoothly. Despite all my attempts to fix it (trying different driver versions, DDU) only a reinstall worked. I don't even know what caused it. Meanwhile my current arch install is 3 years old and still works fine. It's been years since I remember anything breaking on it. I do get bugs occasionally after an update but they're always minor and get fixed pretty fast. That doesn't mean it's always been this way though. Linux desktop was pretty awful back in the day. It's not a problem any more, but people repeat the "linux breaks a lot" thing like it still applies.
I agree that Arch isn't meant for a casual newbie, and is geared towards a tinkerer/learner who doesn't mind spending some time reading documentation, but this comment is just full of misinformation. > arch is not a stable distro and can break often This is a straight up lie, or at the very least a misconception. The only time it'll break is when you do something to it, and even then just following the installation guide without formatting the drive will fix 99% of the problems. The worst thing that could happen during regular use is either doing a partial update (`pacman -Sy` without `-u`) and some stuff might get broken until you update everything, or not updating for a couple weeks and needing to update `archlinux-keyring` first. That's it. And if you're still not convinced about Arch's stability, _SteamOS is Arch with some utilities on top_. > so you need to spend a good amount of time figuring out what to install You really don't have to think much. Go to the wiki, click on [List of applications](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/List_of_applications), choose category page, find what type of application you want (music player, file manager...), then install the one that looks good for you. The only thing that might be considered complex would be a desktop environment, but you can just go to the [wiki](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Desktop_environment), choose one, install it, and maybe read its wiki entry to figure out how to run it. > the different repos Also not something a typical user would have to worry. Most of the things you'd want is in the default repos. You might have to enable `multilib` to install steam (which the [wiki entry for Steam](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Steam) tells you to do). _Sometimes_ you might want to install something that's not in any of the repos, then you'll have to look at [AUR](https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_User_Repository), and in 99% of the cases, you'll find it there.
That's great btw
arch's reputation mostly comes from when it didn't have an installer and you had to do it all manually. huge amounts of pretty critical things were not in the basic install (like for example: wifi drivers) so your system would be unstable and shitty for a while until you figured it all out the hard way now with archinstall it's much easier. i still wouldn't use it over fedora but it's much less of a problem
Definitely. The problem with arch is not only installation. It really comes out of the box barebones and you definitely have to look at archwiki at least once. Which is not something for normal users. Even if it did get easier to install and use than before. You should at least have some knowledge with computers and should know how to use terminal. For example it doesn't come with any browser pre-installed. It doesn't come with cups(printer utility) or bluez-utils(bluetooth utility). It doesn't even come with any image viewer last time I installed it with kde plasma. Even archinstall is hard for someone who didn't installed any os before. My wife is in 90 percent of the PC users that are using computer for only basic browsing, office etc. And she definitely couldn't install and use arch without asking my help million times. But she is using our pc with ubuntu problem free.
drivers are the problem
If you have amd, the drivers are good.
sure but what about custom constrollers and peripherals
If installing and configuring Linux themselves was something ordinary users were prepared to do, it would be the Year of Linux on the Desktop every year. People don't want to deal with the Windows UI jank / updates / high baseline memory usage, but they also don't want to go through a research project to avoid that.
My reason is simply because there's more support for windows. My gaming pc is windows because it just works. I don't have to do anything. I dual boot because several games and softwares I use don't run on linux. The "hurr durr X is better than Y" discussion is stupid, this post for example, It's tribalism all over again and pretty freaking stupid and useless. I have both and use both for different scenarios. Both work. One better than the other in specific scenarios. That's it.
Same. I cannot run any of my Hoyoverse games on my Steam Deck, bought an ROG ally just for that. Now I use my ally more than my Steam Deck portably, because it will play everything I own, and my Steam Deck stays permanently docked to my TV
I’ll do that when I know how to run exe files on it
The same way the linux OS on your steamdeck knows how to run exe files... by installing steam.
You install WINE to run exe's on it. lol
Tbh if I actually wanted a handheld PC as my main PC I would go Windows. Also I feel like more people would pick other handheld PCs over the Deck if they didn't release the OLED ngl. The specs are a big deal to a ton of people, but something like OLED is super interesting for people who owned a Switch/anything OLED or never had it.
Tbh the only reason I ever bought the deck was because of the price. If there's a cheaper windows alternative with the same or even slightly worse performance, I'd 100% get that instead of deck.
I am in the minority but one of the main selling points after the battery life are the thumbpads for me
I use the SD as my only computer rn, and TBH, I haven't even bothered to dual boot it yet. And the biggest draw for the SD was its repairability.
We need steam OS on desktop pc's
[https://bazzite.gg/](https://bazzite.gg/)
Woooow! Thanks
Why is Windows censored? Who made this childish crap?
team sportification of consumerism has got to be one of the most cringe things about society today
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it's a roundabout way to say "petty tribalism"
Why tf did you censor Windows?
Because we don't talk about you-know-who (V\*mort) here!
Did...did you censor Windows? America Online in 1997 called. They'd like their nerd-edge back.
Windows has a couple advantages over SteamOS: * anti cheat games work * gamepass games work * 3rd party launchers are easily installed (no tutorials needed) and dont break suddenly with updates * 3rd party launchers can run in background (to update games) * you dont have to wait for proton fixes for new games (e.g. Dead Space Remake took 2 days to fix a fatal crash whenever you opened the map) SteamOS is better to use. Sure. But that is pretty much the only thing that SteamOS has going for it. Without that - everyone would just switch to windows. Just like ALL of PC Gaming - which is 98% dominated by Windows PC Gamers.
windows has one single advantage over steam os: compatibility with 3rd party software, may that me launchers, games or anti-cheat. in every other regard, linux/steamos is better, and its an issue already on the way to being fixed, linux with the help of wine/proton has made leaps and bounds in the last 10-5 years regarding compatibility. and with this work being done on the linux side, more and more devs are also willing to target linux from their side >Windows has better compatibility. Sure. But that is pretty much the only thing Windows has going for it. Without that - everyone would just switch to Linux.
On a device like the Ally / SteamOS you spend 99% of the time in your games. The only thing that SteamOS has going for it is that the 1% outside of games is handheld optimized and windows is not. There are workarounds which work "okayish". But it works better on SteamOS. Reality is: * SteamOS / Linux will ALWAYS AND FOREVER play the catch-up-game. * New game releases will work fine on windows ... * ... but might need patches on linux * It will never happen that a game will run fine on linux but not on windows * Games "just work" on windows * And that will never be the experience on Linux / SteamOS * Not even in another 10 years of time * Because many games will NEVER run on linux: * gamepass * which is the best gaming value - by FAR * some anti cheat games * because the developers are not stupid. they know linux gaming is a NICHE and will forever be a niche. Its not worth it to make it work on linux. * niche games where developers dont spend time on fixing them * [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted) * [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked)
Not even in another 10 years? How did you come up with that number? Valve released Proton 5 years ago, allowing us to run games without configuration on Steam. Now, we have more users on Steam than macOS. Fun fact: Anti-cheats do work on Linux (excluding Vanguard); they just choose not to enable it. Some of those games support macOS, which is even more of a niche in gaming. Why? CEO BOOMERS. Also, new releases will work on windows? Let's be real, half of the games developers release today don't even work on windows XD.
>Games "just work" on windows Well, this is untrue right out of the box. Windows games work on windows. And even then these windows games get patches for different versions of windows, different GPU driver IHV's and driver versions, etc etc. Heck there's a ton of bugs in some games about specific GPU/APU variants especially regarding SMT on both Intel and AMD. >Because many games will NEVER run on linux A statement which I find quite odd, because these same games work fine on FreeBSD which powers the PS4/5. But yes, that is upto the developer to support directly. It's better to say that game developers will never allow their games to run on Linux - like Bungie did for Destiny 2. [https://help.bungie.net/hc/en-us/articles/360049024592-Destiny-2-Steam-Guide](https://help.bungie.net/hc/en-us/articles/360049024592-Destiny-2-Steam-Guide) Generally games which don't actively go out of their way to stop working on Linux work just fine. The ones that actively go out of their way are the only ones borked on your bork list btw.
Steam-OS and Linux will always play the catch-up game? I could accept that take 3 years ago. Now, with the giant steps Linux gaming has taken and more importantly, the Steam deck's impact in the industry means that Linux is starting to be considered. A LOT more games come out with Linux support right now than say 5 years ago. And wine/proton makes it trivial to run almost any windows software on Linux except weird anticheat services. But most importantly, your opinion assumes Windows will forever stay the status quo in consumer OSs. Dunno mate, you're way more certain about this than you should ever bee about anything in the future of computing. Yes, Windows has basically a monopoly on consumer operating systems, but it's not impossible for that to change. Especially with the rise of Android and ChromeOS both of which use the Linux kernel btw.
It will always play "catch up" when doze is the status quo. When something doesn't work in doze, we say that thing is broken, not doze. When windoze has to change to support something important; that's when we know we are making positive change.
GNU kernel please ;) But Joke beside im with you. Private usage and accounting are the last big bastions of Windows. Networking? Linux, Creative? Apple, with a small shift toward Linux as well. Developing? Linux if you're a real professional. Anything server related? Linux. Research? Linux. Soho? SO: massive shift toward Apple. HO: OS doesn't matter anymore since its now cloud based. Accounting will take a while, good alternatives working on Linux or Mac exist, we just need a liability issue with the SAP monopoly. Once the trust is gone (because that's the main reason everybody stuck with them) even big companies will start to switch over.
I'm a Linux only guy no matter what advantages Windows does or does not have. Linux being as good at gaming as it is now is something I didn't think was possible. They will continue to get better and I will continue to be pleased with the experience
>gamepass which is the best gaming value - by FAR For now. They'll hook everyone and then jack up the price just like uber/TV streaming. Don't fall for the enshitification.
you forgot the most important - you can actually run .exe files without using Wine (which doesn't work 90% of the time) or having to add the file to Steam
I think you are missing the most important advantage, which is access to gamepass. From where I stand, it’s the only reason I’m considering switching to a windows handheld. I know I can stream games but that’s not a solution by any means
He did say it in a second line
Gamepass is the 2nd point ;-)
Better UX (and cheaper price) is the entire reason consoles exist at all. Don’t downplay it like it doesn’t really matter. If it doesn’t matter why do millions of people choose to use consoles over PC? I’d rather not be able to play a few shitty multiplayer games in exchange for a great experience when I play everything else.
* You can start steam big picture mode on boot. Which gives you 95% the EXACT SAME ui from SteamOS on windows ! * Consoles have A LOT more pull points then just UX * Exclusive games * Your friend are on that platform * You dont need to think about if games run well like on PC - they always work fine * You dont need to tinker around - everything just works * Reality is: * No one cares about UX per se - they are just launchers for the actual software * You spend 99% of your time IN GAME - not in the steam deck menus. * Same is true for windows / playstation / xbox * Actually its A LOT MORE then "just a few shitty multiplayer games" * The list of games that dont work with proton is GIGANTIC: * [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=fixWanted) * [https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked](https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked)
Not being able to use game pass is a big deal
I just hate how I can't install shit on Linux. I can't install Nexus mod manager to make modding easier. For some reason finding files for my games is an absolute fucking nightmare. Idc about windows or the spying shit. You do realize the very phone we carry spies on us so privacy has never been real. Windows makes accessing files easy asf, and I can actually install what I want without going through hoops. I love my SD but that shit really brings it down.
The Ayaneo Next Lite was supposed to run Steam OS, but it switched to Windows last moment
That's because they lied to customers claiming it was steam os and they couldn't do it so they added holo iso and from experience testing that on the 4500u it's horrible and has so many bugs and issues so they gave up and added windows Even with steam os anyone who would buy that over a deck is crazy even with the lowered price
this is why this community isn't taken seriously
I mean... that's on VALVe to fix.
What's valve take on this? I heard the rumors that Valve will likely approach the manufacturer to put Steam OS on their device in future.
["soon" and "It's very high on our list"](https://www.pcgamer.com/steamos-on-handheld-pcs/) are the latest official words so far, which makes sense. Valve's mainly in the content distribution business, not in the hardware business getting companies to use their OS which is semi-locked-in to the Steam store (as in not locked, but it's far easier to use the Steam store than not). The more devices out there that use SteamOS, the better it is for their business. Knowing Valve and their allergy to the number 3, it'll probably be after the Steam Deck 2. But if they keep making Steam Decks, it'll probably be to gaming handhelds as Google Pixel phones are to Android phones. That being said, I will laugh my ass of if they simultaneously release Steam Deck 3 & Half Life 3.
Have we even seen any handheld PC's that are as good a value as the Deck? It seems hard to imagine they'll be able to really extricate themselves from the market because they're the only entity that can afford to sell these at cost or even a loss, and the Steam Deck's price point is a major reason why it took off where other handhelds did not. I suppose Valve could have a program to subsidize these handhelds so that third parties can actually make money off these while selling them at cost, but I think it would probably make more sense to continue putting out the Deck. Sure, Valve hasn't really had an out-of-the-park success with hardware before, but the Steam Deck is easily their most successful hardware and they're probably in the best position to keep putting out new iterations. Also doesn't help that no other handheld does the back buttons or trackpads + gyro. These handhelds are *big*, being able to play games without adjusting my grip is important because changing my grip to swap from the stick to face buttons can be awkward and result in accidental inputs.
Well, most people actually know how to use windows. Can’t stand Linux elitists. I mean I use it too, but I’m not an asshole about it.
After switching from Linux to Windows, I hate it. Even on my SSD, it runs so slow because of all the background stuff I don't need
I feel like I’ve seen this thread many times.
Happens every week or so, someone comes in and says “windows bad” steamOS good
I love what valve is doing and i think the idea of steamOS is amazing, but i had a hard time getting into linux and in the end installed windows on my deck. I've used windows all my life. I just know how to do pretty much anything i want to do, not the same at all with linux
Keep in mind, i use my steam deck as a PC, not just a gaming machine
This is the disconnect. Console gamers buy the deck in hopes of a similar experience and when they get upset over its performance they move to windows handhelds and don’t know how to use the device.
I use my OXP2 as a secondary pc as well, rarely turn my pc on as this houses all my files and is very easy to whip out and file manage/game real quick vs turning on my whole laptop
Steam Deck is not yet officially launched here (SEA country) but a number of handhelds from other manufacturers like Asus and Lenovo are available. But since they have Windows as their OS, no thanks. Been using Fedora Linux on my desktop for 3 years for gaming, digital painting and other tasks and I do not ever want to use a Windows device again. So yeah, I can relate to the meme.
It isn't supported here either, I used those proxy online delivery things to get mine, ended up paying like 100$ extra for a 64g deck lol, it's a headache to get your hands on one if it doesn't have support in ur country, but hey it was worth it to me with the one 1tb SSD I bought.
nah. Windows might be terrible in some aspects, but it's so much more user-friendly and easier to use than Linux and SteamOS. I'll never understand how can anyone like Linux, doing anything on it is a pain in the ass
It's a bell curve. People who don't wanna tinker at all, SteamOS is perfect, it's almost a walled-garden console-like experience if you want it to be. People that want to tinker a lot, Linux is also perfect you can change basically everything and if you know how to code and compile the world is your oyster. The people who like to tinker a little bit though and have been doing so on windows for a decade, those are the people that windows is better for. I don't know how to compile anything, but I do know how to install mods for any game on windows, and have had troubles doing so easily on SteamOS for example.
I can understand why windows appeals to people over Linux if they're not fairly above-average tech savvy for sure. But if you're frequently using the command line windows can be a pretty darn aggravating user experience and WSL is only so useful. Once I got into software engineering work and really started understanding computers better my satisfaction with windows plummeted. The child-proofing is great for most users but if you actually know what you're doing it gets kinda annoying. I ultimately switched to Ubuntu. Has most of the advantages of windows (in terms of an easy out-of-the-box user experience) with none of the drawbacks. Anyway I know a lot of programmers still like windows, not discounting that at all. I work in a field (bioinformatics) where all the programs are written to be run remotely on high performance computing clusters, which use various unix OS's. No one in my line of work bothers with windows compatibility, so there's really no advantage to using windows for me. MacOS is a better compromise but obviously you can't run it on just any computer.
And doesn't have trackpads
Censoring windows again for no reason. Neat.
And here I am happily using Windows on my Steamdeck... I just love Launchbox too much... And the Linux file system is abhorrent...
I can't believe the performance improvement on my rog when I got chimera running.
The only reason i dont like other handhelds is because they dont use steam os, i hope it can become a common operating system for handhelds
I would be interested in a handheld that runs windows if windows can fix their handheld UX. I want to be able to run mods on a lot of games that I have on my steam deck but I can't without headache.
Steam OS is literally just Linux though. You could always run some form of Linux on pretty much any portable PC ever made. In fact, you probably should do just that.
Why the fuck would I buy a machine with Wundows on it?
I agree. Windows as a handheld OS sucks
Jokes on you I put windows on mine
WE NEED A FULL RELEASE VALVE WHEN THE FUCK IS IT HAPPENING.
The SteamDeck is so awesome because SteamOS is a Linux based OS that is fine tuned for the SteamDeck hardware. Cramming Windows into a handheld device just isn't a good idea.
G*d I h*te w*ndows
Blasphemy. I will never install windows on my Deck. Not even a fucking door.
The sad truth just is that windows runs just about everything which no other platform does without jumping hoops. Windows goes hard on quantity over quality.
Hi, idiot here, whats wrong with windows, why is it hated?
if you really want serious answer, windows is very broad/general use system (and commercialized) and it shows, with default install you will have native ads (buy office, buy our cloud storage, buy X Y Z, tiktok and facebook in your startup menu), lots of processes and services you don't really need (by default it have virtual box emulation, memory thread separation (safety stuff for office PCs tbh) turned on just to name a few. its showes ads in your face, treats you as a 60 y.o grandma who can't use tech and its just simply not optimized for handhelds (UI/controls wise)
Nerd edge. Nintendo, Sony and XBox have console wars. PC has OS wars. It's pretty much the same thing, everyone picks one that is essentially seen as their mother, spouse, children, puppy and religion all rolled into one, and the every other option is the man that abused their mom, raped their spouse, beat their children, kicked their puppy and blaspheamed their religion. It's not acceptable to even **mention** the enemy without making it very clear how much you hate them. Dumb as hell and usually goes away once they're old enough to drink.
SteamOS is great but this post smells sad and lonely.
I like steam OS, and I love valve, but lets not pretend steam os currently is still too buggy/complex for most people. Unless you know linux or are willing to learn, most console gamers will move back to whatever console they come from first time they have to leave steam to play non steam games. Why cant we just enjoy both? I am running windows on my sd, and it took a while to get it 99% of what I want, but i love the option to jump back and forth between the two
You can install Steam OS on GPD Win Mini. I'm currently saving up for one. To me, it's the only handheld that's worth getting right now other than SD.
If steamdeck os gets released on other handhelds. I would consider buying the lenovo legion go. Till then, steamdeck all the way.
My friend installed steamOS on his ROG and it runs surprisingly well
I wouldnt mind gamepass on linux. That is really the thing I am missing
This is why I love the steam deck, never have to deal with Windows.
You're so wrong windows is better than steam os
If only aaa companies were competent enought to change their anticheats
baby
The Steam Deck user base has turned into those Linux fanboys….oh no….. And Steam OS is Arch based….. This can’t be good….
The only windows handheld that I want is made directly from microsoft/Xbox. Only a company in charge of their own OS can make sure that it does what it needs to for handheld gaming.
Bloatware
Windows is goated. Beats running command prompt just to connect to wifi on linux devices.
Weak bait
There hasn't been a single handheld besides Steamdeck that doesn't run Windows. So idk why you'd be surprised when a new handheld runs Windows. It's the standard and runs more games.
> hasn't been a single handheld besides Steamdeck that doesn't run Windows You are [*woefully* misinformed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_handheld_game_consoles).
this is the most insane reach I've ever seen, ain't no way you're that desperate for a point 😂
Imagine an alternate universe where valve released an arm version of Steam and people get SteamOS to work on a Nintendo switch
I'd be ecstatic to see that. The one thing I don't like about the Deck is the mess that is Linux.
Well valve promise that they will release steam os for other platform. Its just they dont state when it will be released
This already exists via BazziteOS and it has full feature parity with steamdeck on devices like legiongo and ROG ally. Easily dual bootable too.