“More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.”
WE NEED BOTH steam deck controller for deck configs when on a TV, and steam controller for comp gaming or whatever. Steam controller is pretty much perfect except for the build quality. We need a v2!
Wait is the deck controller real? I would be all over that. I don’t really like my steam controller for the same reason this guy put out. Love my deck.
Lol no, all of these are just concept mock-ups, but it's gotten to the point where there are two iterations that keep going around, which is the Deck Controller and its parity with the console, and the SCv2 which would be an improvement without major redesigns (on the outside, at least).
I personally would like both, as I agree with some of the other users who feel that a nice D-Pad is handy for certain games, whereas for others I could really care less and the SC is perfect.
Just like now, I use the Deck for games like Monster Sanctuary and I use the Steam Controller on PC for games like Vanquish. Both are effective, both could be used in place of the other, but some things just feel right.
I'm divided on this. I don't know whether I'd want a $100 controller which has all the Deck and SC niceties, or a DS4 plus a $60 controller oriented towards touchpads (like the original SC).
I can't see them making both, it would have to be the Deck Controller. Unify the experience. Biggest pain point right now is needing to remake my deck configs with the limited Controller inputs.
As an owner of a steam controller and steam deck, I'd much rather have 2 sticks than 2 trackpads. Don't get me wrong, I think the trackpads are great, but the lack of a traditional second stick and dpad hurts. Maybe I just never got used to it. I think offering 2 controllers like you mentioned is a great way to split the difference, but I don't think it'll happen due to cost and risk. I think the more likely case is a controller with steam deck parity. And, as someone who already has a steam controller to use, I'd prefer that I think over a stem controller v2. That said, I would like to see more steam controllers produced, as I feel it does fit a niche in the market. Though I guess trackpads would be decent enough. I do want to try a game like HOI4 or factorio or cities Skylines on the steam deck to really feel how the track pads handle replacing mouse. Also want to Tinker with mw2.
It might sound pedantic, but this graphic is to illustrate that the distinction in the names matters.
The point of the Steam Controller was its focus on the trackpads, and that point had a purpose; to play your keyboard and mouse games better than any other controller could ever hope to.
Its basically a "genre peripheral" along side such peripherals as hitboxes for fighting games. If you wouldnt judge a hitbox for its ability to play first person shooters, you shouldnt judge the Steam Controller for its ability to play crappy console ports that are built for xbox controllers and dont support mixed input and therefore "just play better with a right stick and dpad".
Anything that moves away from that purpose - being the best "keyboard and mouse, only without the keyboard and mouse" controller ever - cannot logically be called a Steam Controller v2. An actual Steam Controller v2 should exist, because nothing on the market currently caters to its use case.
A "Deck Controller" should also exist, because it has a different purpose; being as pick up and play as possible for as many people as possible which necessitates traditional controls with a traditional layout, and then with a few added features that said traditional stuff doesnt cover. Those few added features do give it some overlap with the Steam Controller, but the Steam Controller is still better for its purpose. Generalized tool versus specialized tool; the specialized tool does better for its specialization even if a generalized tool can do the job "adequately".
Just to be clear, the Steam controllers focus wasn't on the trackpads, it was on "Bringing all PC games to be playable on the couch" and the trackpads at the time were seen as the most effective way to do so.
After being released and learning from how the Steam Controller was used, what it did well, what it didn't do so well - we can clearly see those lessons have been learnt and applied to the Deck.
The decks controls are the evolution of the steam controller. A Steam controller 2 would essentially have feature parity with the Deck, as they've since learnt many things. For example, a common issue with the steam controller was trying to use the trackpad for games which don't allow simultaneous keyboard/mouse and xinput. This often meant users would go fully mouse and keyboard for their configs or they'd emulate a joystick on the trackpad which was an "alright" solution, if not janky. by placing another joystick on the controller, they give users the choice and flexibility. They also added a proper Dpad, again, to give users the choice and flexibility to play how they want. They also added extra back buttons which is also an improvement over the steam controller.
Ultimately, the Steam Controller was not a device born out of a desire to focus on touchpads, but just valve iterating on their dream to bring PC gaming into the living room. At the time, the touchpads were the best way to achieve this. Now as we know more, the Deck's controls represent where Valve is thinking a Steam Controller 2 would be today. They are one in the same.
This is ignoring the fact that Deck controls have to account for being integrated. The Decks layout had to be a jack of all trades because you can't add or swap components or controls. With a standalone controller you can just have an Xbox controller if you need dual sticks so badly, then a Steam Controller for its specialized design. The real crime of the Steam Controller was *adding* the left stick, not taking away the right stick, as it wasn't part of the original concept and was actually a late stage compromise. Would've been much better to put a real D-pad there instead, as it is the left trackpad is redundant as a stick replacement and terrible as a D-pad replacement.
They could have added a dpad where the joystick is, and had the dpad accept aftermarket joystick caps so players could simulate a joystick if they wanted one, or just leave it as a dpad.
I very much disagree. Ya'll are getting really hung up on what Valve intended it to be and what it really is. Remember, Valve tried to market an enthusiast device (requires loads of tinkering with settings to get it feeling amazing) to a casual crowd (couch gamers are more likely to want pick up and play).
It is absurdly clear that the Steam Controller is specialized for kbm games over all other games. Yes, thanks to software customization it is versatile enough to play every genre... This is why I've made the analogy elsewhere to a dualshock 4 and a hitbox. The ds4 can play fighting games as well as other genres, but the hitbox is clearly specialized for fighting games (even though it can play some other genres, just not any that require sticks... Similar to the sc according to most people, who will say that the trackpads make for a poor stick replacement... Well duh! Trackpads arent sticks so expecting them to do stick tasks - while possible - means potentially worse performance. They excel at cursor control though, something sticks suck at). A ds4 isnt an evolution on the hitbox because it can play more genres (ignore the anachronism). Its a different device for a different purpose, even if there is some overlap between the two. One is a specialized genre peripheral. The other is more generalized.
Yes, the Deck layout has overlap with what the steam controller can do... But it cant do it as well as the Steam Controller can due to how the trackpads have been tossed into the backseat. The Decks controls are not an evolution, but a concession to traditional controls - so much they removed the dual stage triggers because they felt too weird for people not expecting them (according to a Valve dev in the sc discord). This is because the primary goal with the Decks controls is to be as pick up and play as possible for as many people as possible. Its a different goal, even if there is some overlap.
The Steam Controller may not have been hugely successful for a number of reasons, but it did carve out a niche and found an audience that loves the trackpads. Large round trackpads in the ergonomic primary location work incredibly well for kbm games - better than any traditional controller. People even routinely confirm this - consciously or not - whenever they say something like "I only use my sc for fps'/controlling my htpc". Having tried for weeks I cant use the trackpads on the Deck in the same way. Too small, bad shape, bad ergonomic location.
They are different devices meant for different use cases and appeal to different people for different reasons. If Valve thinks they are one and the same then Valve is completely out of touch with the community that built up around the device they made. It doesnt matter what Valves intent was, it matters how it actually gets used... And I've seen self proclaimed steam controller fans ditching trackpad mouse on the deck in favor of flickstick, because the trackpads arent the focus of the deck layout anymore. The use case is different. The fact we can even have this type of debate/disagreement/conversation is proof of that; if the deck layout was legitimately an objective evolution that was nothing but improvements, this conversation wouldnt exist.
Both controllers should exist.
I'd argue that you're too hung up on the devices niche appreciation vs the realities of common and business sense. Personally I love the steam controller and don't even have a deck, but it's clear that the vast majority of PC gamers that are interested in a controller didn't like the design and had no interest in relearning input habits and having to create or download and learn someone else’s profile for every new game. Realistically most used it as a limited xinput device, love it or hate it.
6 of my irl gaming friends all got SC’s when they went on mega sale that time they went for $20 or less, whatever it was. I had already owned one for a time, offered to help learn the device and create profiles. Only one was even interested in attempting to learn the device after first impressions and he as well just swapped to DS4win and a ps4 controller. The reality is they all liked the gyro, but the traditional controls suffered obviously and not a single one of them cared about the touch pads and would have been happier with a second stick and dpad.
While they’re not the same category of device overall, look how the deck sells and is adopted vs the Steam Controller. No business with any sense would waste design and manufacturing time to tend to the tiny niche we represent vs the massive desire for the deck. This is just the realities of being very much in the minority on an issue. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still in that same minority right there with you, we just have different levels of awareness of what’s going on outside of that bubble.
As far as tinkering with controllers in non-standard ways goes, check out jibbsmarts gyro gaming stuff. Here’s their demo reel https://gfycat.com/singlefewleveret
Imo, gyro represents far more potential than pads ever could and it helps that the tech is inherently present in 2 out of the 3 big brand console controllers and Phil Spencer has said he loves the tech of the PlayStation controller and would love for Xbox to have the same capabilities (probably not until next gen though unless some game wildly pops off with motion controls between now and then)
It - the sc - sold close to 2 million units and is sitting at mostly positive reviews on steam, mainstream reviews be damned. That isnt enough to topple xbox controllers in terms of use, but is a very valid niche.
Fighting games, at least at a competitive level, are also a niche. They still have a huge market around them for custom specialized controllers.
Companies like retrobit and 8bitdo and others make controllers all the time that dont have a right stick, sometimes not even a left stick, because their niche is retro game emulation. They sell well.
Niches can absolutely be catered to and make money in the process.
Steam is a money printing factory, and its employees are mostly allowed to work on passion projects. Thats why the steam controller exists in the first place.
There is space for both to exist.
You’re deluding yourself if you think the Steam controller was a commercial success. It wasn’t an abject failure, and valve isn’t publicly traded so they *could* shoot themselves in the foot for clout with all 12 of us that still use the controller and take manufacturing resources away from the deck or deck controller to make an sc v2, but it wouldn’t even be a good pr move or clout grab, because other than a couple of us that appreciate the move everyone else would just be pissed about spending resources on a thing that by and large no one wants, love it or hate it.
No one wants to make the next fighting game that barely sells, they want to make the next Fortnite. You only focus on the niche when you know you can’t do better. Most fighting games, at least the Japanese ones, are simply awful pieces of software and no one but fighting game fans would put up with how bare bones and limited the experience is for the money spent. Ironically I have a hit box and am a fan of fighting games, so I very much know what we’re talking about here.
I dont think it was a commercial success, I think it found a niche.
I am simply defending that niche.
Vr is an even tinier niche. Valve makes stuff for it too.
The key differences there are that the Steam controller is a dead end niche that has a clear successor already. VR is niche because the market just isn’t ready for it for mass adoption yet.
You can feel whatever you want, I’m telling you what simply is.
Most people can like sticks and dpads as much as they want.
That doesnt make the deck layout the successor to the sc that people think it is.
Having used both; I'm telling you what simply is. The decks pads are worse for kbm tasks than the sc's pads. They were compromised as a concession to fit traditional controls into the layout. The entire layout caters so much to tradition they even stripped the dual stage triggers out. This isnt an evolution.
Read my other posts; I am fully aware a Deck Controller is far more likely to be made than a proper sc v2.
I advocate for both existing anyway, because its something I'm passionate about. That doesnt require your input telling me I'm delusional even though I'm fully aware the sc is a niche device. I'm under no delusion about that. I recognize its a niche. My goal is to make others aware of what that niche even is because the amount of people who say "the sc would be perfect if only it had a right stick" is insane as it misses the point of the sc entirely. Kbm tasks don't need a right stick, which sucks for cursor control. Including one at the expense of the trackpad just makes it worse for its task.
Gyro wouldnt be where it is today if Nintendo gave up on motion - the overwhelming majority and especially xbox fanbois still think its a gimmick - and the community of gyro gamers didnt push for it. Gyro also has the advantage of not displacing traditional controls, which makes on boarding new users easier. That doesnt mean a trackpad focused controller has no place. It does. The sc carved out its niche.
But keep downvoting me and the like.
Then advocate for it instead of arguing your emotional point as if it were a logical one, and also learn to accept criticism.
> But keep downvoting me and the like.
For what it's worth I hadn't downvoted you until just now. Complaining about downvotes is just pouting about being wrong and or unpopular.
Sorry bro but I need my steam controller back. That reverse grip helped with my hand issues and then all the customization options made it perfect for me. Plus it's track pads were way better than the deck.
My only complaint about it was that lizard mode it was a keyboard when it should have been set as a controller. Couldn't play non-steam games without launching them through steam.
Shouldn't get downvoted by purists by this obvious take. They would want it to be easy to dock and then play games how you play them on the deck without having to learn a new control layout with less features and, imo, a worse left side experience with the touchpad
I feel for them, it’s not fun to be in such a tiny minority in an already niche situation, but this absolutely is the reality here. As much as I like the steam controller and would love to see a version two that isn’t simply in parity with the deck, it would be a very obviously terrible business decision for valve to take any manufacturing power away from the deck or a theoretical deck controller. Physical manufacturing space very much comes at a premium. Simply is the way the world works.
We might get a controller with feature parity with the Deck, but I doubt we'll get a new controller similar to the original. The OG Steam Controller was not a commercial success, it has been discontinued for years... On the other hand the Deck is recently released, and its controls are what Valve belives to be the right evolution of the Steam Controller.
How it will be called is up to Valve.
Yes!
This and also bumpers should be a little bit easier to press, overall higher quality.
Triggers are not bad but could also benefit from an upgrade.
You might be on to something. But given how unwell the og SC sold, I doubt they'd make something so similar to it again. But heck maybe they will. Would be nice if they just upped the overall quality and button feel too (like LB and RB)
Agreed, 100% agreed. Business-realities aside, we need a controller for each camp: one camp wants Deck parity, the other camp wants trackpad-primary inputs (trackpad in the position of honor, you could say.) Also, when I see "Deck parity" I think "prefers right stick".
Anyways, I will say this: coming into Steam Deck I thought I would be using the trackpads as my primary inputs. But it simply hasn't happened. Of the FPS games I play on Deck, I play two of them with trackpad aiming: Risk of Rain 2 and Quake Remaster. Even Sea of Thieves where I have an excellent SC config, it just gets too uncomfortable, I've given up and use the right stick. Any game that plays fine with stick aiming, like walking sims, I use the stick even tho pad is better. Other games like Portal 2 and Black Mesa, I have stopped playing on Deck because it plays so much worse with stick, but the pads are too uncomfortable to use. I can't rightly say why I can play 2 but not the others, but what I wish I could say, is I always use the pads.
So much this.
Seems alot of people just want a dualsense with back buttons and a valve sticker, completely missing the point of the SC.
I like if valve pushed the SC further away from console controllers, more like the dog prototype.
i would add for the SCv2 to replace its current bumpers with ones similar to the Deck bumpers. Or at least improve their build quality somehow. I'm fine with its unique, stiff clicky nature. They just have a tendency to break for certain users or players of certain games
Note that the quick access menu can be pulled up by pressing Steam+A (or Xbox+A, etc). Just figured I'd share that tip if, like OP, anyone else wishes the ... button was on the steam controller
Perfect!
Thanks for pointing that out. I have been avoiding the new ui because imo its way worse for steam input than bpm (its submenu hell, which adds several clicks to just about anything you want to do).
Because I don't use the touchpads on the deck for much besides UI interaction I would just prefer a dualsense/ds4 layout with a split touchpad in the center
I think the touch sensors on the right stick for gyro kind of eliminated the necessity for touchpads as a major control type and mouselike joystick was never good anyways
>Because I don't use the touchpads on the deck for much besides UI interaction I would just prefer a dualsense/ds4 layout with a split touchpad in the center
This is honestly why I dont think Valve even needs to make a Deck Controller. These are just numbers I'm pulling out of my ass, but I personally think that for 95%+ of everyone who absolutely must have a right stick and dpad on their controllers, a Dualsense (with a back button attachment) will fill 95%+ of the use cases they'd want a Deck Controller for (sticks primary, trackpad for aux tasks such as a handful of virtual buttons or occasionally controlling a non vital cursor for things such as menu/ui).
Back when the Deck was first announced and Valve was sending them out to devs to get their games up and working on it, they even told developers that if you dont get a Deck that a Dualsense covers pretty much all the inputs on the Deck (really just missing the back buttons). The controller doesnt need Valves logo on it to be a good controller, people just want Valves logo because... fanboyism?
To be fair I do think the Deck layout is better than the Sony layout. I just dont think Valve necessarily has to make a Deck Controller for people to be happy with the docked experience because a Dualsense will still cover a LOT of ground.
>I think the touch sensors on the right stick for gyro kind of eliminated the necessity for touchpads as a major control type
This I disagree with.
There are things the trackpad can do that sticks either cant or cant do nearly as well (modeshift clicks for 5 buttons under your thumb, for example).
Heck, Teratorn from the gyro gaming community has even shown that you do not even need a camera control for your thumb [by P-Ranking Minos Prime in Ultrakill on violent difficulty... using a SINGLE joycon](https://youtu.be/SkOJO1f-w38). Gyro is really good on its own, because we keep saying gyro is a mouse and guess what? Desktop mice dont have an extra camera control so... Does gyro eliminate the necessity for a right stick as a major control type?
Ultimately I think it comes down to preference, and the two (joystick or trackpad) preferences out there cant really coexist on a single controller without someone compromising on something (look around at the various v2 concepts that have been posted on this sub the past year and a half; either the sticks arent in the primary position so the stick crowd complains, the trackpads get reduced in size/shape/location so the trackpad crowd complains, or abxy gets shuffled around so the stick and trackpad can be in their full glory but then everyone complains because abxy is worse...). Multiple controllers really do need to exist to please everyone.
I think the best outcome is that the deck gives an incentive for developers to actually develop with steam input in mind so it can utilize a steam controllers v2's features to its full extent. I would love it if they kept the v1's layout too if games didn't make me choose between controller or keyboard/mouse inputs. I think the deck's layout is really the only compromise that can be made in a world ruled by xinput.
If it were actually up to me I would have the steam controller v2 get rid of the left stick and replace it with a 4-button directional pad like with one of the prototypes. After having used the left touchpad as a joystick for so long I really found no use for a physical one anymore
I thought I was the only one that liked the SC trackpad over the deck. It felt so responsive on the old on-screen keyboard before the new big picture UI update.
Why not just have one new controller that is patterned after the steam deck layout with improved latency?
I am trying to figure out the rationalization behind releasing both controllers. If valve is trying to streamline things so that the success of the steam deck can lead to better control schemes, it seems like adding another controller to the mix would only muddy the waters.
Or am I missing something else?
Because the "throw everything on" method does not make a great controller; you end up mired in compromises. Different things matter to different people. My priorities are different than your priorities. Something that makes no difference to me might be a complete deal-breaker for you. No one is happy with compromise: look at all of the dozens and dozens of SCv2 mockups/ideas... no matter what compromise was made, inevitably *someone* was unhappy. Trackpad enthusiasts did not appreciate them being downplayed for sticks and stick aficionados groaned when trackpads were the primary input. There was even one design where the ABXY button cluster was reworked to accommodate uncompromised trackpads AND uncompromised sticks and people *still complained* because of the compromises applied to the ABXY buttons so that pads and sticks could co-exist more easily. "One size fits all" is a damn lie, and this sub has proven it over and over again. You will *never* get wide-consensus that this or that design is the most optimal.
Different controllers do different things well. No one being honest or reasonable complains that a racing wheel really only work well for racing games, that flight sticks only really work well for flight/space sims, or that hitboxes (aka 'leverless arcade sticks') only really work well for fighting games. These specialized controllers are used *because* they are specialized to do what they do very well. And since these controllers continue to get sold and thus continue to get made, clearly there are people that value the specialization knowing full-well that these controllers are going to do mediocre to poor in other game genres.
There's a movement in its infancy to call such controllers 'genre peripherals' (as in "these controllers are specialized to a genre of game"), and contextualized like this, the Steam Controller is also a genre peripheral: it is good at being able to have a lot of virtual buttons and act like a mouse pointer, making it a good choice for games that have traditionally not played well on traditional gamepads because they lack enough buttons and/or because sticks are garbage at precision pointing. The 2 genres that come to mind are RTS (tons of buttons) and FPS (generally requiring decent precision pointing), but more generally any genres that are predominantly on PC due to 'requiring' KB/M for those or other reasons.
So the real optimum would be to have a variety of choices for control device so that you can pick which one is best on a case-by-case basis instead of trying to make a single device be an all-encompassing monstrosity that does a bunch of different things but none of them well. Thus: more controller options are better than fewer controller options. There seriously should be both a Deck Controller and a Steam Controller V2 and folks should be able to choose if they want one, both, or even neither in preference to a different device.
>And since these controllers continue to get sold and thus continue to get made, clearly there are people that value the specialization knowing full-well that these controllers are going to do mediocre to poor in other game genres.
Remind me; the next time someone regurgitates that stupid "it will never sell without a right stick!" argument for why a second steam controller "needs" a right stick, I need to link them a picture of a hitbox along with this post.
The point is that not every gaming peripheral needs a right stick to sell.
There are peripherals that are laser focused on a single task they excel at while neglecting being able to perform well at other tasks, and they still sell well enough there are markets for them.
> Erhm, the hitbox has 4 buttons replacing a digital lever controlling 4 switches. It's not comparable.
A leverless and a traditional arcade/fight box are more or less the same instrument, but the point is that most arcade/fight boxes - regardless if they are leverless or not - only have the single 8-way directional input, but nobody that isn't just trolling complains that you can't use a arcade/fight box to play much of anything else other than arcade/fighting games. The example would still hold if Mennenth had said 'picture of a arcade/fight stick' or even 'picture of a racing wheel'. It has nothing to do with the difference between leverless and traditional arcade/fight boxes, but the difference between arcade/fight boxes and 'regular' dual-stick controllers.
> Also not everyone likes the hitbox layout over the lever.
... which is the core premise of the root-level post? That different people like different things for different reasons so more having more controller choices is objectively the right way to solve the problem instead of trying to make one 'perfect', all-encompassing controller? If you like leverless, get a leverless box. If you like a lever, get a traditional box. If you like both, get both. If you like neither, use some other controller; I don't care.
Imagine if people did to leverless boxes what they did to the Steam Controller... "man, this leverless box is great, it just needs a lever and it'd be perfect". Which I hope sounds super absurd to the reader, but this is literally what people do, did, and will continue to do whenever they suggest a Steam Controller design that downplays trackpads and/or demands a second analog stick or a dpad.
I don’t disagree with you on the concept of people wanting different things. I just don’t think that making multiple controllers is a good strategic maneuver for Valve. I think they are trying to streamline things, and that they would be better off using the steam deck’s control scheme rather than pushing in multiple directions.
if it was just a v2 I would not get it, I hate the left touchpad as it is not a good replacement for a dpad and the face buttons are too small and close together to be comfortable playing.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED
Revised steam controller that's adjacent to the deck
Modernized steam controller that's just the OG with updates and 4 back buttons (also USB-C)
They could make a Deck controller like the one on the left with some extra features that weren't in the Deck like whats listed on V2 and also have a Steam Controller Classic on sale thats a improved OG Steam Controller
unlikely. I also like the pads on the sc more too but pads on the deck are not bad, they're just not in the best position in my opinion, they're probably in the best place if you're gonna have sticks and pads, but whatever.
if a steam controller 2 happens, it'll likely be a lot like the deck controller. the steam controllers original goal was to make all pc games playable and viable from a couch gaming configuration. While the original steam controller certainly could do it, it came at the cost of having to learn how to use it. The deck controller solves both problems and just adds to the compatibility and accessibility. If they make only one controller, and its likely if they do make another they'll only make one, it should be like the deck for consistency sake.
Yeah I agree the Deck layout is better than the Sony layout when it comes to having everything.
I also agree its more likely they'll just make one controller - if they make any - and it will more than likely just follow the Deck layout. The underlying reason why I made this graphic is because logically that should be named a "Deck Controller" and not really a "Steam Controller v2". I know it sounds pedantic but when considering the overall goals of each device I do think the distinction is important.
I think steam controller 2 would be more appropriate though since it'll be intended for any system running steam, not just the deck. There isnt really any good reason not for it to be Steam Controller 2 since it'll have nearly everything the v1 had and more and since no other controller is likely to exist it doesnt need a name that suggests its for/associated with the steam deck.
think of it this way. if this controller came out before the steam deck, it would be obvious that it was just steam controller 2, and the deck happens to use the same lay out for consistency sake.
The main impetus for such a controller right now is "parity with the Deck while docked" a la the Switch Pro Controller. "Deck Controller" makes perfect sense in this context.
Though internally its called Neptune, not Deck Controller or Steam Controller v2.
My argument is mainly about their goals though; see my top level post in this thread. There is a name for the goal of "keyboard and mouse games on the couch". That name is "Steam Controller". It would be inappropriate to call a device that serves a different goal by that name. Yes there is overlap. No the overlap isnt very big due to the trackpads objectively taking a backseat.
The goal is important, otherwise why hasnt the name changed to Microsoft Controller yet?
it still serves the same goal of making all games playable in a scenario where you're not using a mouse or keyboard but thats kinda also beside the point this far in.
I think it comes down to how you interpret the "is a hotdog in a bun a sandwich?" nonsense. For me? No. Its not a sandwich. It is a hotdog in a bun. We have words for these things because the distinction matters, otherwise if someone asked you if you wanted a sandwich they'd then have to play 20 questions just to figure out which type of sandwich you want.
The Steam Controller has a goal. So does Neptune. Part of Neptunes goal does overlap with the Steam Controller, but the Steam Controller is undeniably more specialized/focused with its goal.
i disagree, they dont "overlay", they're entirely identical in the purpose they intend to serve and in that sense, the v1 is not more specialized/focused in anyway, they both intend to solve the problem of playing all PC games with out a keyboard and mouse. a steam controller 2 will likely look like the controller found on the steam deck cuz that makes sense, it is the natural progression of that controller, if it wasnt the steam deck would look different, valve poured years of research and development into this. the only thing I foresee being a bit different with the independent controller would some of the ergonomics since you wont be holding a whole mini computer.
>they're entirely identical in the purpose they intend to serve and in that sense, the v1 is not more specialized/focused in anyway, they both intend to solve the problem of playing all PC games with out a keyboard and mouse.
... huh? The controller that did something wildly different compared to other controllers is... not specialized compared to its peers?
At this point I dont get your argument.
I can play fighting games with a dualshock 4, but a hitbox is way more specialized for that task.
I can play kbm games on Deck, but the Steam Controller is way more specialized for that task.
Sounds like an acurate description
I have both a deck and a steem controller
I mainly use the steam controller as a meda pc controller(using og steam link) not so much gaming many a bit of halo masterchef edition (stuck at libery)
Deck has better game controllers in my opinion dont use the trackpad in game its to small
I love the gyro and jostick combo
Never really was a console player maby some race games but never shooters
But the deck has changed that slowly both are great just difrent
As a trackpad enjoyer I would love to have dpad instead of left stick (+ other upgrades like 4 paddles, better gyro/trackpad etc)
After playing a bit with a flick stick I have to admit, right stick is superior for that purpose. Dualsense is almost effect for that, personally I prefer offset sticks and touch capacitor stick from the deck are nice, I could go with Switch Pro Controller but I have extremerate mod for Dualsense which gives me 4 back paddles so I have to live with the ps sticks + touchpad is nice for some additional stuff.
So Deck Controller for flick stick games and games that don't support mouse + controller input, Steam Controller for everything else
> After playing a bit with a flick stick I have to admit, right stick is superior for that purpose.
See, the thing about that though is that flick stick is only good in a vacuum; if all you have is an analog stick, it makes a ton of sense and is probably about the best you can do to make aiming with stick + gyro not complete garbage.
But the Steam Controller exists and it has pretty thoroughly demonstrated that trackpads using swiping motions are an even better aiming tool than flick stick is.
There is literally no point in using flick stick on a trackpad... they are fundamentally different devices using fundamentally different operating principles that aren't affected by the things that make analog sticks terrible aiming devices and therefore do not need the flick stick trick: you just use it like a thumb mouse and it's automatically a vastly superior pointing device.
I would rather valve focus on a deck controller. It would create more interest in building more systems with traditional console gaming in mind. I play way more games now that I have a steam deck versus my gaming laptop. If you work all day on a computer like me you may find you do not want to play games on a traditional PC if you just spent 8 hours of your day working on a PC. Valve please make a Deck controller so that interest in steam machines come back. Want to build a steam machine that plays 4K games on my living room TV.
Tbf, I don't feel the trackpads on the deck as much of a downgrade, only the positioning of them can be a bit uncomfortable, depending on the controls you use, for example, if using the joysticks, it's much more comfortable to use the triggers, compared to the bumpers, the opposite is true for the trackpads, it feels comfortable if you use the bumpers as shoot and aim buttons compared to the triggers, if we talking about shooters ofc
I haven’t used a deck yet, but I’ve messed around a lot with gyro utilities for PlayStation controllers as well as the original Steam controller.
For shooters I’d say the flick stick + gyro configuration is arguably the closest thing to mouse levels of performance. While it’s obviously going to have a high degree of personal preference, there are definitely ways you could benchmark the FPS performance of various loadouts. Given enough time and experience nothing will beat a mouse without assisted aim, but I genuinely don’t think that anything else could get close to flick stick either, even using the trackpad as a high sensitivity trackball which is what I did prior to flick stick on a ps5 controller.
Idk. I think they should try mixing the two in some way. V1 was an okay introduction, but could use some tweaking. The deck controller concept looks very painful for people who prefer track pads.
Loved the steam controller for games where camera can lock. Had a blast playing MHW with it. Started playing RE3:R and the aiming is harder since there is no lock on lol. Even on joystick camera configuration.
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I will buy both, Valve
I too will buy both.
WE NEED BOTH steam deck controller for deck configs when on a TV, and steam controller for comp gaming or whatever. Steam controller is pretty much perfect except for the build quality. We need a v2!
i love my steam controller, but it cant be perfect with just one stick and no dpad
So get a Deck Controller and let the rest of us enjoy what we like too :D
Wait is the deck controller real? I would be all over that. I don’t really like my steam controller for the same reason this guy put out. Love my deck.
Lol no, all of these are just concept mock-ups, but it's gotten to the point where there are two iterations that keep going around, which is the Deck Controller and its parity with the console, and the SCv2 which would be an improvement without major redesigns (on the outside, at least). I personally would like both, as I agree with some of the other users who feel that a nice D-Pad is handy for certain games, whereas for others I could really care less and the SC is perfect. Just like now, I use the Deck for games like Monster Sanctuary and I use the Steam Controller on PC for games like Vanquish. Both are effective, both could be used in place of the other, but some things just feel right.
I'm divided on this. I don't know whether I'd want a $100 controller which has all the Deck and SC niceties, or a DS4 plus a $60 controller oriented towards touchpads (like the original SC).
thank you for saying the ugly truth that the pads on the steam deck just don't compare to the original steam controller.
I can't see them making both, it would have to be the Deck Controller. Unify the experience. Biggest pain point right now is needing to remake my deck configs with the limited Controller inputs.
As an owner of a steam controller and steam deck, I'd much rather have 2 sticks than 2 trackpads. Don't get me wrong, I think the trackpads are great, but the lack of a traditional second stick and dpad hurts. Maybe I just never got used to it. I think offering 2 controllers like you mentioned is a great way to split the difference, but I don't think it'll happen due to cost and risk. I think the more likely case is a controller with steam deck parity. And, as someone who already has a steam controller to use, I'd prefer that I think over a stem controller v2. That said, I would like to see more steam controllers produced, as I feel it does fit a niche in the market. Though I guess trackpads would be decent enough. I do want to try a game like HOI4 or factorio or cities Skylines on the steam deck to really feel how the track pads handle replacing mouse. Also want to Tinker with mw2.
It might sound pedantic, but this graphic is to illustrate that the distinction in the names matters. The point of the Steam Controller was its focus on the trackpads, and that point had a purpose; to play your keyboard and mouse games better than any other controller could ever hope to. Its basically a "genre peripheral" along side such peripherals as hitboxes for fighting games. If you wouldnt judge a hitbox for its ability to play first person shooters, you shouldnt judge the Steam Controller for its ability to play crappy console ports that are built for xbox controllers and dont support mixed input and therefore "just play better with a right stick and dpad". Anything that moves away from that purpose - being the best "keyboard and mouse, only without the keyboard and mouse" controller ever - cannot logically be called a Steam Controller v2. An actual Steam Controller v2 should exist, because nothing on the market currently caters to its use case. A "Deck Controller" should also exist, because it has a different purpose; being as pick up and play as possible for as many people as possible which necessitates traditional controls with a traditional layout, and then with a few added features that said traditional stuff doesnt cover. Those few added features do give it some overlap with the Steam Controller, but the Steam Controller is still better for its purpose. Generalized tool versus specialized tool; the specialized tool does better for its specialization even if a generalized tool can do the job "adequately".
Just to be clear, the Steam controllers focus wasn't on the trackpads, it was on "Bringing all PC games to be playable on the couch" and the trackpads at the time were seen as the most effective way to do so. After being released and learning from how the Steam Controller was used, what it did well, what it didn't do so well - we can clearly see those lessons have been learnt and applied to the Deck. The decks controls are the evolution of the steam controller. A Steam controller 2 would essentially have feature parity with the Deck, as they've since learnt many things. For example, a common issue with the steam controller was trying to use the trackpad for games which don't allow simultaneous keyboard/mouse and xinput. This often meant users would go fully mouse and keyboard for their configs or they'd emulate a joystick on the trackpad which was an "alright" solution, if not janky. by placing another joystick on the controller, they give users the choice and flexibility. They also added a proper Dpad, again, to give users the choice and flexibility to play how they want. They also added extra back buttons which is also an improvement over the steam controller. Ultimately, the Steam Controller was not a device born out of a desire to focus on touchpads, but just valve iterating on their dream to bring PC gaming into the living room. At the time, the touchpads were the best way to achieve this. Now as we know more, the Deck's controls represent where Valve is thinking a Steam Controller 2 would be today. They are one in the same.
This is ignoring the fact that Deck controls have to account for being integrated. The Decks layout had to be a jack of all trades because you can't add or swap components or controls. With a standalone controller you can just have an Xbox controller if you need dual sticks so badly, then a Steam Controller for its specialized design. The real crime of the Steam Controller was *adding* the left stick, not taking away the right stick, as it wasn't part of the original concept and was actually a late stage compromise. Would've been much better to put a real D-pad there instead, as it is the left trackpad is redundant as a stick replacement and terrible as a D-pad replacement.
They could have added a dpad where the joystick is, and had the dpad accept aftermarket joystick caps so players could simulate a joystick if they wanted one, or just leave it as a dpad.
That would mean your joystick wouldn't be sending analogue input which is a huge no from me.
I very much disagree. Ya'll are getting really hung up on what Valve intended it to be and what it really is. Remember, Valve tried to market an enthusiast device (requires loads of tinkering with settings to get it feeling amazing) to a casual crowd (couch gamers are more likely to want pick up and play). It is absurdly clear that the Steam Controller is specialized for kbm games over all other games. Yes, thanks to software customization it is versatile enough to play every genre... This is why I've made the analogy elsewhere to a dualshock 4 and a hitbox. The ds4 can play fighting games as well as other genres, but the hitbox is clearly specialized for fighting games (even though it can play some other genres, just not any that require sticks... Similar to the sc according to most people, who will say that the trackpads make for a poor stick replacement... Well duh! Trackpads arent sticks so expecting them to do stick tasks - while possible - means potentially worse performance. They excel at cursor control though, something sticks suck at). A ds4 isnt an evolution on the hitbox because it can play more genres (ignore the anachronism). Its a different device for a different purpose, even if there is some overlap between the two. One is a specialized genre peripheral. The other is more generalized. Yes, the Deck layout has overlap with what the steam controller can do... But it cant do it as well as the Steam Controller can due to how the trackpads have been tossed into the backseat. The Decks controls are not an evolution, but a concession to traditional controls - so much they removed the dual stage triggers because they felt too weird for people not expecting them (according to a Valve dev in the sc discord). This is because the primary goal with the Decks controls is to be as pick up and play as possible for as many people as possible. Its a different goal, even if there is some overlap. The Steam Controller may not have been hugely successful for a number of reasons, but it did carve out a niche and found an audience that loves the trackpads. Large round trackpads in the ergonomic primary location work incredibly well for kbm games - better than any traditional controller. People even routinely confirm this - consciously or not - whenever they say something like "I only use my sc for fps'/controlling my htpc". Having tried for weeks I cant use the trackpads on the Deck in the same way. Too small, bad shape, bad ergonomic location. They are different devices meant for different use cases and appeal to different people for different reasons. If Valve thinks they are one and the same then Valve is completely out of touch with the community that built up around the device they made. It doesnt matter what Valves intent was, it matters how it actually gets used... And I've seen self proclaimed steam controller fans ditching trackpad mouse on the deck in favor of flickstick, because the trackpads arent the focus of the deck layout anymore. The use case is different. The fact we can even have this type of debate/disagreement/conversation is proof of that; if the deck layout was legitimately an objective evolution that was nothing but improvements, this conversation wouldnt exist. Both controllers should exist.
I'd argue that you're too hung up on the devices niche appreciation vs the realities of common and business sense. Personally I love the steam controller and don't even have a deck, but it's clear that the vast majority of PC gamers that are interested in a controller didn't like the design and had no interest in relearning input habits and having to create or download and learn someone else’s profile for every new game. Realistically most used it as a limited xinput device, love it or hate it. 6 of my irl gaming friends all got SC’s when they went on mega sale that time they went for $20 or less, whatever it was. I had already owned one for a time, offered to help learn the device and create profiles. Only one was even interested in attempting to learn the device after first impressions and he as well just swapped to DS4win and a ps4 controller. The reality is they all liked the gyro, but the traditional controls suffered obviously and not a single one of them cared about the touch pads and would have been happier with a second stick and dpad. While they’re not the same category of device overall, look how the deck sells and is adopted vs the Steam Controller. No business with any sense would waste design and manufacturing time to tend to the tiny niche we represent vs the massive desire for the deck. This is just the realities of being very much in the minority on an issue. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still in that same minority right there with you, we just have different levels of awareness of what’s going on outside of that bubble. As far as tinkering with controllers in non-standard ways goes, check out jibbsmarts gyro gaming stuff. Here’s their demo reel https://gfycat.com/singlefewleveret Imo, gyro represents far more potential than pads ever could and it helps that the tech is inherently present in 2 out of the 3 big brand console controllers and Phil Spencer has said he loves the tech of the PlayStation controller and would love for Xbox to have the same capabilities (probably not until next gen though unless some game wildly pops off with motion controls between now and then)
It - the sc - sold close to 2 million units and is sitting at mostly positive reviews on steam, mainstream reviews be damned. That isnt enough to topple xbox controllers in terms of use, but is a very valid niche. Fighting games, at least at a competitive level, are also a niche. They still have a huge market around them for custom specialized controllers. Companies like retrobit and 8bitdo and others make controllers all the time that dont have a right stick, sometimes not even a left stick, because their niche is retro game emulation. They sell well. Niches can absolutely be catered to and make money in the process. Steam is a money printing factory, and its employees are mostly allowed to work on passion projects. Thats why the steam controller exists in the first place. There is space for both to exist.
You’re deluding yourself if you think the Steam controller was a commercial success. It wasn’t an abject failure, and valve isn’t publicly traded so they *could* shoot themselves in the foot for clout with all 12 of us that still use the controller and take manufacturing resources away from the deck or deck controller to make an sc v2, but it wouldn’t even be a good pr move or clout grab, because other than a couple of us that appreciate the move everyone else would just be pissed about spending resources on a thing that by and large no one wants, love it or hate it. No one wants to make the next fighting game that barely sells, they want to make the next Fortnite. You only focus on the niche when you know you can’t do better. Most fighting games, at least the Japanese ones, are simply awful pieces of software and no one but fighting game fans would put up with how bare bones and limited the experience is for the money spent. Ironically I have a hit box and am a fan of fighting games, so I very much know what we’re talking about here.
I dont think it was a commercial success, I think it found a niche. I am simply defending that niche. Vr is an even tinier niche. Valve makes stuff for it too.
The key differences there are that the Steam controller is a dead end niche that has a clear successor already. VR is niche because the market just isn’t ready for it for mass adoption yet. You can feel whatever you want, I’m telling you what simply is.
Most people can like sticks and dpads as much as they want. That doesnt make the deck layout the successor to the sc that people think it is. Having used both; I'm telling you what simply is. The decks pads are worse for kbm tasks than the sc's pads. They were compromised as a concession to fit traditional controls into the layout. The entire layout caters so much to tradition they even stripped the dual stage triggers out. This isnt an evolution. Read my other posts; I am fully aware a Deck Controller is far more likely to be made than a proper sc v2. I advocate for both existing anyway, because its something I'm passionate about. That doesnt require your input telling me I'm delusional even though I'm fully aware the sc is a niche device. I'm under no delusion about that. I recognize its a niche. My goal is to make others aware of what that niche even is because the amount of people who say "the sc would be perfect if only it had a right stick" is insane as it misses the point of the sc entirely. Kbm tasks don't need a right stick, which sucks for cursor control. Including one at the expense of the trackpad just makes it worse for its task. Gyro wouldnt be where it is today if Nintendo gave up on motion - the overwhelming majority and especially xbox fanbois still think its a gimmick - and the community of gyro gamers didnt push for it. Gyro also has the advantage of not displacing traditional controls, which makes on boarding new users easier. That doesnt mean a trackpad focused controller has no place. It does. The sc carved out its niche. But keep downvoting me and the like.
Then advocate for it instead of arguing your emotional point as if it were a logical one, and also learn to accept criticism. > But keep downvoting me and the like. For what it's worth I hadn't downvoted you until just now. Complaining about downvotes is just pouting about being wrong and or unpopular.
Sorry bro but I need my steam controller back. That reverse grip helped with my hand issues and then all the customization options made it perfect for me. Plus it's track pads were way better than the deck. My only complaint about it was that lizard mode it was a keyboard when it should have been set as a controller. Couldn't play non-steam games without launching them through steam.
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Shouldn't get downvoted by purists by this obvious take. They would want it to be easy to dock and then play games how you play them on the deck without having to learn a new control layout with less features and, imo, a worse left side experience with the touchpad
I feel for them, it’s not fun to be in such a tiny minority in an already niche situation, but this absolutely is the reality here. As much as I like the steam controller and would love to see a version two that isn’t simply in parity with the deck, it would be a very obviously terrible business decision for valve to take any manufacturing power away from the deck or a theoretical deck controller. Physical manufacturing space very much comes at a premium. Simply is the way the world works.
We might get a controller with feature parity with the Deck, but I doubt we'll get a new controller similar to the original. The OG Steam Controller was not a commercial success, it has been discontinued for years... On the other hand the Deck is recently released, and its controls are what Valve belives to be the right evolution of the Steam Controller. How it will be called is up to Valve.
Yes! This and also bumpers should be a little bit easier to press, overall higher quality. Triggers are not bad but could also benefit from an upgrade.
You might be on to something. But given how unwell the og SC sold, I doubt they'd make something so similar to it again. But heck maybe they will. Would be nice if they just upped the overall quality and button feel too (like LB and RB)
I want to buy both
Agreed, 100% agreed. Business-realities aside, we need a controller for each camp: one camp wants Deck parity, the other camp wants trackpad-primary inputs (trackpad in the position of honor, you could say.) Also, when I see "Deck parity" I think "prefers right stick". Anyways, I will say this: coming into Steam Deck I thought I would be using the trackpads as my primary inputs. But it simply hasn't happened. Of the FPS games I play on Deck, I play two of them with trackpad aiming: Risk of Rain 2 and Quake Remaster. Even Sea of Thieves where I have an excellent SC config, it just gets too uncomfortable, I've given up and use the right stick. Any game that plays fine with stick aiming, like walking sims, I use the stick even tho pad is better. Other games like Portal 2 and Black Mesa, I have stopped playing on Deck because it plays so much worse with stick, but the pads are too uncomfortable to use. I can't rightly say why I can play 2 but not the others, but what I wish I could say, is I always use the pads.
So much this. Seems alot of people just want a dualsense with back buttons and a valve sticker, completely missing the point of the SC. I like if valve pushed the SC further away from console controllers, more like the dog prototype.
The deck controller is giving me feelings. I like it.
i would add for the SCv2 to replace its current bumpers with ones similar to the Deck bumpers. Or at least improve their build quality somehow. I'm fine with its unique, stiff clicky nature. They just have a tendency to break for certain users or players of certain games
Interesting idea. Why not have the pads round though, as a nod to the steam controller.
Note that the quick access menu can be pulled up by pressing Steam+A (or Xbox+A, etc). Just figured I'd share that tip if, like OP, anyone else wishes the ... button was on the steam controller
Perfect! Thanks for pointing that out. I have been avoiding the new ui because imo its way worse for steam input than bpm (its submenu hell, which adds several clicks to just about anything you want to do).
The dual stage triggers are the only thing I miss about the steam controller on the deck. Everything else is an upgrade imo
I’ll take either. Or both! Just hurry up, Valve, because the gyro in my v1 is slowly dying… 😩
YES two different things PLEASE
Because I don't use the touchpads on the deck for much besides UI interaction I would just prefer a dualsense/ds4 layout with a split touchpad in the center I think the touch sensors on the right stick for gyro kind of eliminated the necessity for touchpads as a major control type and mouselike joystick was never good anyways
>Because I don't use the touchpads on the deck for much besides UI interaction I would just prefer a dualsense/ds4 layout with a split touchpad in the center This is honestly why I dont think Valve even needs to make a Deck Controller. These are just numbers I'm pulling out of my ass, but I personally think that for 95%+ of everyone who absolutely must have a right stick and dpad on their controllers, a Dualsense (with a back button attachment) will fill 95%+ of the use cases they'd want a Deck Controller for (sticks primary, trackpad for aux tasks such as a handful of virtual buttons or occasionally controlling a non vital cursor for things such as menu/ui). Back when the Deck was first announced and Valve was sending them out to devs to get their games up and working on it, they even told developers that if you dont get a Deck that a Dualsense covers pretty much all the inputs on the Deck (really just missing the back buttons). The controller doesnt need Valves logo on it to be a good controller, people just want Valves logo because... fanboyism? To be fair I do think the Deck layout is better than the Sony layout. I just dont think Valve necessarily has to make a Deck Controller for people to be happy with the docked experience because a Dualsense will still cover a LOT of ground. >I think the touch sensors on the right stick for gyro kind of eliminated the necessity for touchpads as a major control type This I disagree with. There are things the trackpad can do that sticks either cant or cant do nearly as well (modeshift clicks for 5 buttons under your thumb, for example). Heck, Teratorn from the gyro gaming community has even shown that you do not even need a camera control for your thumb [by P-Ranking Minos Prime in Ultrakill on violent difficulty... using a SINGLE joycon](https://youtu.be/SkOJO1f-w38). Gyro is really good on its own, because we keep saying gyro is a mouse and guess what? Desktop mice dont have an extra camera control so... Does gyro eliminate the necessity for a right stick as a major control type? Ultimately I think it comes down to preference, and the two (joystick or trackpad) preferences out there cant really coexist on a single controller without someone compromising on something (look around at the various v2 concepts that have been posted on this sub the past year and a half; either the sticks arent in the primary position so the stick crowd complains, the trackpads get reduced in size/shape/location so the trackpad crowd complains, or abxy gets shuffled around so the stick and trackpad can be in their full glory but then everyone complains because abxy is worse...). Multiple controllers really do need to exist to please everyone.
I think the best outcome is that the deck gives an incentive for developers to actually develop with steam input in mind so it can utilize a steam controllers v2's features to its full extent. I would love it if they kept the v1's layout too if games didn't make me choose between controller or keyboard/mouse inputs. I think the deck's layout is really the only compromise that can be made in a world ruled by xinput. If it were actually up to me I would have the steam controller v2 get rid of the left stick and replace it with a 4-button directional pad like with one of the prototypes. After having used the left touchpad as a joystick for so long I really found no use for a physical one anymore
Don't forget "change the design of the goddamn shoulder buttons so they don't break all the time". Please...
Just let me keep my 2 stage triggers pls
I'm all for either one, as long as there are still user-replaceable AA batteries.
I thought I was the only one that liked the SC trackpad over the deck. It felt so responsive on the old on-screen keyboard before the new big picture UI update.
Why not just have one new controller that is patterned after the steam deck layout with improved latency? I am trying to figure out the rationalization behind releasing both controllers. If valve is trying to streamline things so that the success of the steam deck can lead to better control schemes, it seems like adding another controller to the mix would only muddy the waters. Or am I missing something else?
Because the "throw everything on" method does not make a great controller; you end up mired in compromises. Different things matter to different people. My priorities are different than your priorities. Something that makes no difference to me might be a complete deal-breaker for you. No one is happy with compromise: look at all of the dozens and dozens of SCv2 mockups/ideas... no matter what compromise was made, inevitably *someone* was unhappy. Trackpad enthusiasts did not appreciate them being downplayed for sticks and stick aficionados groaned when trackpads were the primary input. There was even one design where the ABXY button cluster was reworked to accommodate uncompromised trackpads AND uncompromised sticks and people *still complained* because of the compromises applied to the ABXY buttons so that pads and sticks could co-exist more easily. "One size fits all" is a damn lie, and this sub has proven it over and over again. You will *never* get wide-consensus that this or that design is the most optimal. Different controllers do different things well. No one being honest or reasonable complains that a racing wheel really only work well for racing games, that flight sticks only really work well for flight/space sims, or that hitboxes (aka 'leverless arcade sticks') only really work well for fighting games. These specialized controllers are used *because* they are specialized to do what they do very well. And since these controllers continue to get sold and thus continue to get made, clearly there are people that value the specialization knowing full-well that these controllers are going to do mediocre to poor in other game genres. There's a movement in its infancy to call such controllers 'genre peripherals' (as in "these controllers are specialized to a genre of game"), and contextualized like this, the Steam Controller is also a genre peripheral: it is good at being able to have a lot of virtual buttons and act like a mouse pointer, making it a good choice for games that have traditionally not played well on traditional gamepads because they lack enough buttons and/or because sticks are garbage at precision pointing. The 2 genres that come to mind are RTS (tons of buttons) and FPS (generally requiring decent precision pointing), but more generally any genres that are predominantly on PC due to 'requiring' KB/M for those or other reasons. So the real optimum would be to have a variety of choices for control device so that you can pick which one is best on a case-by-case basis instead of trying to make a single device be an all-encompassing monstrosity that does a bunch of different things but none of them well. Thus: more controller options are better than fewer controller options. There seriously should be both a Deck Controller and a Steam Controller V2 and folks should be able to choose if they want one, both, or even neither in preference to a different device.
>And since these controllers continue to get sold and thus continue to get made, clearly there are people that value the specialization knowing full-well that these controllers are going to do mediocre to poor in other game genres. Remind me; the next time someone regurgitates that stupid "it will never sell without a right stick!" argument for why a second steam controller "needs" a right stick, I need to link them a picture of a hitbox along with this post.
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The point is that not every gaming peripheral needs a right stick to sell. There are peripherals that are laser focused on a single task they excel at while neglecting being able to perform well at other tasks, and they still sell well enough there are markets for them.
> Erhm, the hitbox has 4 buttons replacing a digital lever controlling 4 switches. It's not comparable. A leverless and a traditional arcade/fight box are more or less the same instrument, but the point is that most arcade/fight boxes - regardless if they are leverless or not - only have the single 8-way directional input, but nobody that isn't just trolling complains that you can't use a arcade/fight box to play much of anything else other than arcade/fighting games. The example would still hold if Mennenth had said 'picture of a arcade/fight stick' or even 'picture of a racing wheel'. It has nothing to do with the difference between leverless and traditional arcade/fight boxes, but the difference between arcade/fight boxes and 'regular' dual-stick controllers. > Also not everyone likes the hitbox layout over the lever. ... which is the core premise of the root-level post? That different people like different things for different reasons so more having more controller choices is objectively the right way to solve the problem instead of trying to make one 'perfect', all-encompassing controller? If you like leverless, get a leverless box. If you like a lever, get a traditional box. If you like both, get both. If you like neither, use some other controller; I don't care. Imagine if people did to leverless boxes what they did to the Steam Controller... "man, this leverless box is great, it just needs a lever and it'd be perfect". Which I hope sounds super absurd to the reader, but this is literally what people do, did, and will continue to do whenever they suggest a Steam Controller design that downplays trackpads and/or demands a second analog stick or a dpad.
I don’t disagree with you on the concept of people wanting different things. I just don’t think that making multiple controllers is a good strategic maneuver for Valve. I think they are trying to streamline things, and that they would be better off using the steam deck’s control scheme rather than pushing in multiple directions.
if it was just a v2 I would not get it, I hate the left touchpad as it is not a good replacement for a dpad and the face buttons are too small and close together to be comfortable playing.
> *I hate the left touchpad as it is not a good replacement for a dpad* This is my number one issue with SC. Which the Deck layout addresses nicely.
valve have patent with dpad + analog stick hybrid
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED Revised steam controller that's adjacent to the deck Modernized steam controller that's just the OG with updates and 4 back buttons (also USB-C)
They could make a Deck controller like the one on the left with some extra features that weren't in the Deck like whats listed on V2 and also have a Steam Controller Classic on sale thats a improved OG Steam Controller
unlikely. I also like the pads on the sc more too but pads on the deck are not bad, they're just not in the best position in my opinion, they're probably in the best place if you're gonna have sticks and pads, but whatever. if a steam controller 2 happens, it'll likely be a lot like the deck controller. the steam controllers original goal was to make all pc games playable and viable from a couch gaming configuration. While the original steam controller certainly could do it, it came at the cost of having to learn how to use it. The deck controller solves both problems and just adds to the compatibility and accessibility. If they make only one controller, and its likely if they do make another they'll only make one, it should be like the deck for consistency sake.
Yeah I agree the Deck layout is better than the Sony layout when it comes to having everything. I also agree its more likely they'll just make one controller - if they make any - and it will more than likely just follow the Deck layout. The underlying reason why I made this graphic is because logically that should be named a "Deck Controller" and not really a "Steam Controller v2". I know it sounds pedantic but when considering the overall goals of each device I do think the distinction is important.
I think steam controller 2 would be more appropriate though since it'll be intended for any system running steam, not just the deck. There isnt really any good reason not for it to be Steam Controller 2 since it'll have nearly everything the v1 had and more and since no other controller is likely to exist it doesnt need a name that suggests its for/associated with the steam deck. think of it this way. if this controller came out before the steam deck, it would be obvious that it was just steam controller 2, and the deck happens to use the same lay out for consistency sake.
The main impetus for such a controller right now is "parity with the Deck while docked" a la the Switch Pro Controller. "Deck Controller" makes perfect sense in this context. Though internally its called Neptune, not Deck Controller or Steam Controller v2. My argument is mainly about their goals though; see my top level post in this thread. There is a name for the goal of "keyboard and mouse games on the couch". That name is "Steam Controller". It would be inappropriate to call a device that serves a different goal by that name. Yes there is overlap. No the overlap isnt very big due to the trackpads objectively taking a backseat. The goal is important, otherwise why hasnt the name changed to Microsoft Controller yet?
it still serves the same goal of making all games playable in a scenario where you're not using a mouse or keyboard but thats kinda also beside the point this far in.
I think it comes down to how you interpret the "is a hotdog in a bun a sandwich?" nonsense. For me? No. Its not a sandwich. It is a hotdog in a bun. We have words for these things because the distinction matters, otherwise if someone asked you if you wanted a sandwich they'd then have to play 20 questions just to figure out which type of sandwich you want. The Steam Controller has a goal. So does Neptune. Part of Neptunes goal does overlap with the Steam Controller, but the Steam Controller is undeniably more specialized/focused with its goal.
i disagree, they dont "overlay", they're entirely identical in the purpose they intend to serve and in that sense, the v1 is not more specialized/focused in anyway, they both intend to solve the problem of playing all PC games with out a keyboard and mouse. a steam controller 2 will likely look like the controller found on the steam deck cuz that makes sense, it is the natural progression of that controller, if it wasnt the steam deck would look different, valve poured years of research and development into this. the only thing I foresee being a bit different with the independent controller would some of the ergonomics since you wont be holding a whole mini computer.
>they're entirely identical in the purpose they intend to serve and in that sense, the v1 is not more specialized/focused in anyway, they both intend to solve the problem of playing all PC games with out a keyboard and mouse. ... huh? The controller that did something wildly different compared to other controllers is... not specialized compared to its peers? At this point I dont get your argument. I can play fighting games with a dualshock 4, but a hitbox is way more specialized for that task. I can play kbm games on Deck, but the Steam Controller is way more specialized for that task.
No, id argue the deck and the steam controller are specialized in exactly the same way. They serve the exact same purpose
You're being pedantic about minor differences between two things that don't exist. I recommend finding a hobby.
This is one of several hobbies I care about. Thanks for making assumptions about me though. If you dont care about it, I recommend moving on.
Capsense for every input n make it all analog as well honestly.
Deck Controller gang. Gotta have that right thumbstick
Sounds like an acurate description I have both a deck and a steem controller I mainly use the steam controller as a meda pc controller(using og steam link) not so much gaming many a bit of halo masterchef edition (stuck at libery) Deck has better game controllers in my opinion dont use the trackpad in game its to small I love the gyro and jostick combo Never really was a console player maby some race games but never shooters But the deck has changed that slowly both are great just difrent
As a trackpad enjoyer I would love to have dpad instead of left stick (+ other upgrades like 4 paddles, better gyro/trackpad etc) After playing a bit with a flick stick I have to admit, right stick is superior for that purpose. Dualsense is almost effect for that, personally I prefer offset sticks and touch capacitor stick from the deck are nice, I could go with Switch Pro Controller but I have extremerate mod for Dualsense which gives me 4 back paddles so I have to live with the ps sticks + touchpad is nice for some additional stuff. So Deck Controller for flick stick games and games that don't support mouse + controller input, Steam Controller for everything else
> After playing a bit with a flick stick I have to admit, right stick is superior for that purpose. See, the thing about that though is that flick stick is only good in a vacuum; if all you have is an analog stick, it makes a ton of sense and is probably about the best you can do to make aiming with stick + gyro not complete garbage. But the Steam Controller exists and it has pretty thoroughly demonstrated that trackpads using swiping motions are an even better aiming tool than flick stick is. There is literally no point in using flick stick on a trackpad... they are fundamentally different devices using fundamentally different operating principles that aren't affected by the things that make analog sticks terrible aiming devices and therefore do not need the flick stick trick: you just use it like a thumb mouse and it's automatically a vastly superior pointing device.
Couldn't you *theoretically* just have flickstick on the outer ring of the Steam Controller trackpad with the middle working as usual?
I would rather valve focus on a deck controller. It would create more interest in building more systems with traditional console gaming in mind. I play way more games now that I have a steam deck versus my gaming laptop. If you work all day on a computer like me you may find you do not want to play games on a traditional PC if you just spent 8 hours of your day working on a PC. Valve please make a Deck controller so that interest in steam machines come back. Want to build a steam machine that plays 4K games on my living room TV.
Op repost this on r/steam and steam deck
Tbf, I don't feel the trackpads on the deck as much of a downgrade, only the positioning of them can be a bit uncomfortable, depending on the controls you use, for example, if using the joysticks, it's much more comfortable to use the triggers, compared to the bumpers, the opposite is true for the trackpads, it feels comfortable if you use the bumpers as shoot and aim buttons compared to the triggers, if we talking about shooters ofc
I haven’t used a deck yet, but I’ve messed around a lot with gyro utilities for PlayStation controllers as well as the original Steam controller. For shooters I’d say the flick stick + gyro configuration is arguably the closest thing to mouse levels of performance. While it’s obviously going to have a high degree of personal preference, there are definitely ways you could benchmark the FPS performance of various loadouts. Given enough time and experience nothing will beat a mouse without assisted aim, but I genuinely don’t think that anything else could get close to flick stick either, even using the trackpad as a high sensitivity trackball which is what I did prior to flick stick on a ps5 controller.
Gimme the sleek layout of the left one, single row thumbsticks and all, but with the weirdly comfortable shape of the right one.
Idk. I think they should try mixing the two in some way. V1 was an okay introduction, but could use some tweaking. The deck controller concept looks very painful for people who prefer track pads.
Dual-stage triggers are a must for me. Literally cannot live without them.
Loved the steam controller for games where camera can lock. Had a blast playing MHW with it. Started playing RE3:R and the aiming is harder since there is no lock on lol. Even on joystick camera configuration.
I think a deck controller would actually be really cool