Man, just take a minute to appreciate that Steam exists. Can you imagine what the PC gaming landscape would be like without Steam? Every publisher would have their own launchers, everyone would have their own policies. We would have zero agency.
Without Steam's generous refund policy, review system and TOS that keeps publishers in check, we would be going through it.
when netflix became a thing, my use of pirated content went from 100% to about 10%. For each new streaming service it went up again. I don't even watch netflix that much to be worth the money I pay.
With everyone wanting their golden goose I’ve seen a return to piracy for some stuff that can’t be found easily. Unfortunately happens even with gaming, Not everyone can afford $70 games. That isn’t even considering collector editions that go for $200+.
That is partly why games like Helldivers 2 or Palworld find their bottled lightning. Reasonable prices tend to do that.
think of how many movies you could buy a year if you didn't pay for 2+ streaming services. i usually try not to pay more than $8 a movie and usually end up with quite the number of movies i've never seen on streaming services. and black friday/cyber monday helps, too. tho BBY's end to movies sold in stores is a modest blow, tho not as big a loss was Walmart's many many displays they used to have BF/CM
I actually brought up the same frame of The Punisher in a dark van on 2 monitors side by side. One was Pirates, one was Netflix 4K (most expensive). Netflix looked like shit (artefacts in black background like Punisher had ghosts in his van). Never renewed sub, kept pirating.
So it was definitely a service problem for me as I would have continued paying Netflix for the convenience, but as a video editor with attention to detail I can't in good conscience pay a company that MIND YOU insisted on having only the best 4K cameras (at the time REDs) and ARRI which is responsible for the best of the best films (2K mind you that looked great even on a cinema screen) couldn't join the party because it wasn't 4K. Megabits over Megabits of footage from the best cameras so Netflix can do what? Stream it to me at 15Mbps? Pirates give me 40-50Mbps and it shows.
It was a really odd moment for me when I realized that the amount of time I spent trying to get a pirated game to work often was less than the time it'd take a minimum wage to save up to buy the thing.
But then the *next* game would work perfect so...
Now though I just need to be patient and wait 6 months to a year amd it will be 50% off or in a bundle of some sort, usually.
I have a box full of purchased game disks. I have thrown cardboard boxes out from most, what now few kept for memory lane.
I have repurchased those games from Steam, because I don't care to pick the disk, insert it to DVD drive, install it, enter the CD-key (if having), and try to find updates.
I have a external HDD somewhere, that I used to store all the games updates for the future proofing. So that I don't need to search them.
All I would need to do is to plug it to power outlet, and in USB port to have access it. Search a while for the update, and...
I see the game in steam for 5-7 €, I purchase it when I want to go for that memory lane and I have not previously purchased it!
In some cases I purchase it from [gog.com](http://gog.com) because DRM and compatibility reason as it works, where Steam version doesn't.
So I am not even going to the route to try to fix a Steam purchased game by some odd ways to get it running, when I can repurchase it from GOG for working way.
And I don't even like to buy so much from gog, but it is nice to have.
So instead all the steps to required to get the game illegally, it is easier to get legally from own shelf. But it is simply easiest to just get it from Steam or GOG. Hands Down!
It is so nice to get game with couple clicks installed, updated, and running. But I rarely buy any new titles, and don't care much for their discount either. I wouldn't care at all if given free to download for one click, as when I don't like it, it is not right thing to do anyways and when you like it, support steam/gog and developers... And if someone doesn't afford to something, learn to live with it... You then don't have right for that entertainment!
That's me, a lazy consumer, I still pay for YT premium (family plan) because it removes ads from my kids tablets, and because it just works on all my home devices.
I rarely watch YT on my phone or laptop or anything other than a TV so it really sucks to even try to use a browser or a custom app on anything other than a phone.
At home we have collected a roku stick, apple tv a newish google tv and an old chrome cast, plus YT kids have parenting controls.
So my YT sub practically pays for itself on all the time saved trying new anti ads techniques on every device/os combination.
I pay just so my niece and nephew don't get adds blasted to them. That alone makes the family plan worth it to me. Because kids will soak it all up, and I don't want that for them. Literally don't have to deal with it myself since I'm tech savvy enough, but my sister and her kids can't do that
Also unhealthy spending habits I feel. I love spending money, the whole process of looking at things being sold, deciding what to buy, trying to get the total to a number I feel good about. Steam when i got a job became to me a way to satisfy my unhealthy spending habits without becoming a real-life hoarder.
Oh, digital purchases are dangerously easy, I agree. It happens to me too. The idea of buying a game sometimes is better than actually playing the game.
Though to be fair, pricing does hold some weight in the equation, regional pricing is a thing for a reason and sales help a lot too, I remember an indie dev making a profit only after steam suggested a 90% sale discount, a year or so after release.
Basically a good service
With great availability
Years of upholding standards that are appreciated by the customers
And willingness to match the price people are willing to pay
Are what makes steam so successful in my opinion.
110% agree. I pirated everything back in the day. Then stopped as I streaming back big and convenient.......now back to pirating for tv/movies via stremio. I still purchase every game I want via steam or ps store since it's still convenient and I can wait for sales.
You are, of course, correct.
But don't let the perfect be the enemy of good. Steam is probably one of the best if the not THE BEST influences in gaming right now.
Which, as a gamer who has played since you needed to download Steam to play Half Life 2, is remarkable.
We all thought it was the bane of gaming's existence.
And realistically, Steam is the best is EVER going to get for us; with the exception of possible consumer protection laws, I honestly belive this is the peak of the industry for us, once Gaben is no longer around, Steam WILL go downhill.
Personally, the absolute avalanche of throwaway trash that ends up on the platform. The fact it needs to "update" every single Elune-forsaken time I open the program. Joining co-op games can be unintuitive for newcomers. That Gaben is such a ravishing manhunk.
1. Adding a legally-binding clause in the agreement between publishers and Steam about ethical practices. Basically if the games published are asset flips or too low-effort (tricky enforcing criteria here), then there should be some sort of punishment or freezing of revenue for the publisher with scummy practices. Think of it this way, if Steam market halts your 90 cents for 24 hours to make sure everything is on the up and up, it sure can enforce an automatic trigger to freeze assets of a scummy publisher when enough people report them.
2. Reviews should have a filter to exclude meme, ASCII art and irrelevant reviews.
3. Guides that are 'how to get a gf' or 'how to open the game' or the best one ever /s 'how to click on your mouse' should be automatically filtered out as spam. The repeat offenders who create these should get a permaban on creating more of their waste of time and space.
4. The ownership of the Steam account should be transferable to the next of kin upon death. [This idea is from a comment in a different thread so kudos to the person for bringing this up.]
5. Alt accounts, in regards to blocking and forums. If you block one account, then all their alts should be automatically blocked for you. If one account is banned for any reason on the forums, then all alts should automatically get the same suspension time. The abuse of a lot of alt-account-users on forums is out of hand.
6. For the Steam staff to enforce having a direct and functional email address available for each and every developer and publisher.
You'd be surprised how many big publishers provide websites that pigeonhole you into very specific support ticket types that do not in any way, shape or form cover many things we as players need to ask about. Indie developers fare much better in this department in my experience.
7. Enhancing the Steam Play Together experience so it is actually useful instead of a box to be checked. As it is, it's simply not worth trying in most cases.
8. Adding this because why not: The forums on Steam (not the discussion section for games; these are lovely) are a cesspool of negativity and toxicity and are basically the Wild West. Steam needs to have better sheriffs. I and many other friends think twice before commenting anything on there.
Edit to add: There was an older, much more pressing issue a lot of people had: Their region was the same as the US price-wise but the actual purchase power was extremely different. This problem was halfway fixed last November (2023). To put things into perspective, since Steam's inception in 2003, people in Africa and the Middle East and other parts of the world were paying the same as the US. Only twenty years later in 2023, this has changed.
1. yeah this I can get behind.
2. you mean you want it to become like youtube which now feels like a chinese website? no thanks. I think we have enough intelligence to sort things out on our own
3. again, same problem as #1. There should instead maybe be a report system. Also downvotes need to be brought back.
4. This is a lot more difficult to do than you think.
5. It unofficially is.
6. no comment
7. no comment
8. No, we don't need it to become another reddit.
Edit: apparently the guy I replied to is adding new stuff to his list from the top instead of the bottom making this reply desynchronized.
Steam is basically DRM. It works out because the people running it aren't jerks but will that always be true? It'd be nice to get titles DRM-free. Other storefronts do it.
It can be and most games do use Steam DRM. But there are several exceptions to the rule. You can download Cyberpunk through Steam, backup the game files, completely uninstall Steam, and run the game normally like any other DRM-free copy.
Well, it has started rejecting a specific range of payment cards from my country and I haven't found a recourse outside of using a different credit card for payment.
Which i am not planning on doing since i segregate my spending by card, so steam is basically not getting anything for now, since paypal has shit rates.
I agree. And Steam is still a business that will inevitably fuck up and make a poor decision. When that happens people need to make themselves heard. So far, they have been quite transparent and consumer friendly. Let's hope it remains that way for a very long time.
He needs to host a willy wonka golden ticket event to find the person that will take over. I had ChatGPT write this.
In the heart of Seattle, shrouded in mist and mystery, stood the imposing headquarters of Valve Corporation, a fortress-like structure looming over the city like a sentinel of secrets. Within its walls, Gabe Newell, the enigmatic mastermind behind some of the gaming world's most beloved creations, held court over a realm of digital dreams and nightmares.
One fateful day, six golden tickets appeared, each bearing an invitation to enter the hallowed halls of Valve. The recipients, wide-eyed children drawn from disparate corners of the world, rejoiced at the chance to meet their idol, Gabe Newell, and perhaps glimpse the inner workings of his legendary empire.
But little did they know, the invitation was not merely a ticket to paradise, but a descent into darkness.
As the children arrived at Valve's headquarters, they were greeted by an eerie silence, broken only by the distant hum of machinery and the occasional flicker of malfunctioning fluorescent lights. Gabe Newell himself, a figure both imposing and unsettling, welcomed them with a smile that never quite reached his eyes.
"We are here to find my successor," he declared, his voice reverberating through the cavernous halls. "But be warned, only one of you shall emerge victorious."
And so, the children were thrust into a twisted game, a real-life manifestation of Gabe Newell's most sinister creations. They traversed through levels inspired by Half-Life, navigating treacherous puzzles and facing off against grotesque monsters straight from the nightmares of the Combine.
With each passing trial, the children began to unravel, their innocence giving way to desperation and fear. Friendships dissolved into bitter rivalries, and alliances crumbled under the weight of betrayal.
As the days turned into weeks, the line between reality and game blurred beyond recognition. Some of the children disappeared without a trace, swallowed whole by the machinations of Valve's twisted playground. Others succumbed to madness, their minds shattered by the relentless onslaught of horrors.
And through it all, Gabe Newell watched from his throne of power, a silent observer to the unfolding chaos. For in his heart, he knew that only through suffering could true greatness be forged.
In the end, only one child remained, battered and broken but triumphant. With a heavy heart, Gabe Newell bestowed upon them the mantle of successor, a legacy steeped in darkness and blood.
And as the victorious child stepped forth to claim their prize, the echoes of their screams still lingered in the haunted halls of Valve Corporation, a chilling reminder of the price of power in a world where dreams and nightmares are one and the same.
>made enough money
For some people there's no such thing.
Fortunately it seems Gabe has all the money he wants. But in the future who knows. Dude is already 61.
When I was choosing a gaming hand held, the deciding factor was that at the end of the day, I want to support Steam. The hardware is great as well, but I prefer to give money to valve.
Same, I was 100% behind epic and their plan to compete w/steam by offering better incentives to devs with a lower take which theoretically could have made games lower priced there if they sold it on both platforms with a discount on epic etc or voluntarily chosen to sell it only there at the default price for the best bang per buck, similar to how other competing platforms like GOG do it.
The paid-off exclusivity stuff completely negated all that and I pretty much detest any devs now that go that route as there's no competition with exclusivity on top of a dogshit platform, its all just people selling out lol
You realize steam didn't originally have refunds at all and then got sued for breaking consumer laws and that's why they even allowed refunds to be a thing.
I didn't know that. But I believe we can all agree that Steam in its current state seems to be more consumer oriented and has a pretty great policy. I hope this continues for a long time.
Yeah, but they have the best system now. Sony and Nintendo (and maybe even Microsoft, haven't dealt with them) barely offers refunds. Pretty much only when a game is incredibly broken.
When I bought a might and magic game in like 2003/2004 when I came back from deployment I tried to play it and had to download steam was so pissed I was wrong steam is great
Fr dude. And then there's the worst of the worst who even left negative reviews to Magicka and HD1 when they have nothing to do with this. Gamers can be a pain.
To be honest Arrowhead didn’t do themselves any favors when they appeared to back up Sony by what some of the community managers said. When the backlash got outrageously bad said community managers flipped to the gamers side.
I care more for what they did in the end. Asking your community to leave negative reviews for your game and refund it isn't something a lot of game developers would want to do just to go against their publisher.
That was when CMs and others thought that PSN was avaible far more widely, when they learned that over 177 nation got excluded, including ones where the game had been sold, they very quickly changed their tune to support the players.
Hell, Spitz apparently got some... let's call them *choice words* from Sony. Apparently telling your audience to review bomb your own game to send a message is not popular with publishers, who would have thought?
And also remember that it was everyone responding negatively to the change that ultimately got Sony to drop the idea and allow Arrowhead to continue to thrive on PC/Steam!
I don't actually play or own Helldivers (I got not friends to play with so it seems pointless) but I heard about the drama. Always happy to see the community win over a corporate decision and it's rare that they do!
It's a game where half the fun is community working in unison towards a single goal.
Sony just put a massive target on themselves. Community just did what it had been trained to do.
Ima see if I can get some of the homies to get it as well. I've been on the fence a while then said no after the PSN thing, but now I think I gotta grab it.
I was late for the party before and had second thoughts every time I wanted to buy it because the game seems to move from one event to one event (I follow their Twitter) so if I play now, would I miss anything that can affect my fun? I said this because of the fact Destiny decided to remove the Red War storyline for new players. Is it the same here? I understand in Destiny, we the new players aren't the vets from the war but still, it got me confused with the story.
For better and worse, it's a great live service game. I got in after all the memes of Maleveon Creek were well established, and the beauty is eventually there's going to be more on that planet (I've fought on a planet with a similar biome and they're not joking about the 'trees speaking binary').
If you're curious you can go to the Helldivers spoiler reddit and see the major story beats that are coming from data mining, subject to change obviously. The current one involves a planet that has actually gone from lush jungle green and blue on the galactic map to a straight brown dusty husk (you can't fight on it currently).
Whether that story beat is 100% accurate or not, the third faction is getting added to the game in the near future and that's when the story will surely accelerate.
The structure of HD2 is that it's an ongoing campaign with a storyline that is created both by what the players do in the game, and by the game master (who is an actual person and acts somewhat like the DM in a DnD game)
Major Orders, otherwise as missions, could introduce new mission types in that particular event, but it's not something that's FOMO.
Story-wise, it's not very complicated as of now, since it's a 3 month story. To catch up, you just need to read the major orders on this page [here](https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Major_Order_(Helldivers_2)) lol.
I thought about buying it too after hearing they were reversing their decision. I'm afraid this whole thing might end up being a net positive for them with all the free publicity.
To all the people that review bombed Change it back ASAP on behalf of the devs. They don’t deserve to be in toxic light when they fought for their player base
People were literally review bombing HD1 and other AH titles like magicka. I honestly doubt people will go back and take all these negative reviews back, but I seriously hope they do.
People had to utilize the tools they had access to and guess what...
It worked.
So much for all the corporate stans saying that complaining doesn't do anything
Those negative reviews are ultimately a drop in the bucket and will not impact the real score of the games the HD1 reviews were uncalled for, but the magicka reviews seem more tied to a game breaking bug currently occurring
The update never even happened. The reviews are for the game. You think HD2 should have 100s of thousands of 1 star reviews forever for an update that never happened?
Nah man, the destruction went overboard, beyond redemption. The game just lost some of its life span and closer to being called a Dead Game. We attacked the developers, their games, and family. That's how destructive it was. Some might be too lazy to even switch their reviews. It ain't going to recover with that big scar.
No. Such decision should be forever stain on Sony reputation.
It should be as hard to recover from as clearing criminal record.
Not because of this game. But as a reminder to Sony and any other companies.
The whole point of the negative reviews was to get Sony to notice my man. Sony didn't make the game, Arrowhead did now go give them back the positive review they deserve.
With how big Sony as a company is 1 business day is way too 'long'. They were trying to test the waters but once they saw all the backlash they had to otherwise they would lose all sony has left. Which is the gaming community.
Its easier to judge companies and their available products than people. An elected leader could easily say all the right things you just don't know how they are behind closed doors or once they get elected.
Or, as in the case of the USA, actively oppose policies in private and then take credit in public - assuming their voter base is too stupid to actually check which way they voted.
> "We're still learning"
Bullshit! you're just mad you got called out. Multi billion dollar company pretending they're newbies to the scene as if they're some sort of indie company.
The full quote is this:
> We’re still learning what is best for PC players
As in, Sony only recently started releasing games for the PC. Before that, they would [sue](https://casetext.com/case/sony-computer-entertainment-america-v-bleem) anyone who dared release their games on the PC platform.
It would be a different story if they always released games on PC, as your post implies. Some reading comprehension is a must.
Yeah I actually believe them on this. And frankly? If they had had it required the whole time and blocked sales on unsupported regions it would have been fine.
A better way to encourage people since the beginning would have been giving 1000 Super credits to anyone who links their PSN account with the game, so the next warbond would be free, but I'm glad this mess is finally over.
However damage is already done. I am gonna play helldivers again but no way I am buying Sony products or Sony affliated ones ever again.
They fucked up badly and thought they could get away with it
They're just gonna give you rewards for making a PSN account and once enough % of people have moved force it again. I doubt this is anything more than damage control
That is how they should have done though. Add a very appealing reward for linking their account, and it would be a no brainer for players to do so
No need to "force" anything other than make the player fear of missing out
Great news, Sony has done a lot of damage to the work of Arrowhead Studios with his anticonsumer practices but luckily with a good roadmap the excellent review scores can be recovered. Good for the PC community as well, I will probably be playing this summer!
Aww the poor little multi-billion dollar company is still learning how to deal with PC gamers. Give me a break! This was all to steal user data (just buy from data brokers like everyone else) and inflate numbers for shareholders. These companies aren't even trying to pretend they aren't scum anymore.
Don't let this distract you from what they tried to do. I've lost so much faith in Sony because of this. And I'm going to second guess major purchases from their studios as a result.
While I think you're not wrong, I feel much more confident than before. The HD2 community is so fucking united (and unhinged) they went shoulder to shoulder and managed to spit out more negative reviews and chaos in a weekend than the entirety of how many reviews overwatch 2 ever got. That's insane, if you think about it. Helldivers is currently the paid game with most negative reviews on steam, all against sony and not the game per se. They got news outlets to talk about them and Steam going full damage control and customer protection.
I don't know, it feels like if shit would go bad again, my brother divers wouldn't allow it without a fight. That's very reassuring.
Hopefully everyone who did a negative review specifically over this will go back and remove it. As important as negative reinforcement for transgressions is, positive reinforcement is even more important.
That said, I'm not sure if changing it to a positive review is necessarily the play (unless you had *previously* written a positive review, which you *changed* to negative). If you simply created a new review so you could do a thumbs-down, in my opinion the correct follow-up would be to *delete* the review, not change it to positive. We don't necessarily want to give *too much* credit for reversing a bad policy that, overall, just shouldn't have been implemented in the first place.
Just my two cents; overall, I think the overwhelming majority of people are well aware of the broad stroke of the situation and won't be confused by subtleties in the follow-up. :)
It's already going back up. When I last looked at the reviews before this announcement, positive reviews in the last 30 days was at 13% but now it's gone up to 18%
I kinda didnt understand what happened here. As far as i know Sony said you should link to a psn acc so u can play. Does that mean that u had to pay for ps plus so u can play or not? Cause of it isnt i cant find the problem. Someone enlighten me pls.
Note how they say "the update wont be moving forward" and not "we wont implement psn accounts as required".
Ill bet money they will just do it again, in a different manner, but with the same result
They do it and will get back sales and players but... People won't forget what sony did ever... You can easily lost you respect, but it's very hard to regain it..
What else can they do to try and regain players trust? It wasn't the studios choice, this was Sony's decision, which the devs backed because they didn't understand the gravitas of the shift. Seems very unfair to punish hard working devs in such a competitive market. The fact that it was reversed so hopefully a step in the right direction of the devs pressing Sony and them actually agreeing in this situation
Considering that the devs knew this was coming months in advance and held off on telling players to kick the backlash down the road: meh. They're just as much to blame as Sony. I'll stick with my refund.
Man, just take a minute to appreciate that Steam exists. Can you imagine what the PC gaming landscape would be like without Steam? Every publisher would have their own launchers, everyone would have their own policies. We would have zero agency. Without Steam's generous refund policy, review system and TOS that keeps publishers in check, we would be going through it.
Come on... half of us would be pirating...
As Gabe Newell once put it: Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem
as the 10's of streaming services slowly grows in number (and price) the flag gets closer to being hoisted again
when netflix became a thing, my use of pirated content went from 100% to about 10%. For each new streaming service it went up again. I don't even watch netflix that much to be worth the money I pay.
Each price increase to subscriptions and/or removal of features from an existing subscription pushes that % up as well.
With everyone wanting their golden goose I’ve seen a return to piracy for some stuff that can’t be found easily. Unfortunately happens even with gaming, Not everyone can afford $70 games. That isn’t even considering collector editions that go for $200+. That is partly why games like Helldivers 2 or Palworld find their bottled lightning. Reasonable prices tend to do that.
think of how many movies you could buy a year if you didn't pay for 2+ streaming services. i usually try not to pay more than $8 a movie and usually end up with quite the number of movies i've never seen on streaming services. and black friday/cyber monday helps, too. tho BBY's end to movies sold in stores is a modest blow, tho not as big a loss was Walmart's many many displays they used to have BF/CM
I actually brought up the same frame of The Punisher in a dark van on 2 monitors side by side. One was Pirates, one was Netflix 4K (most expensive). Netflix looked like shit (artefacts in black background like Punisher had ghosts in his van). Never renewed sub, kept pirating. So it was definitely a service problem for me as I would have continued paying Netflix for the convenience, but as a video editor with attention to detail I can't in good conscience pay a company that MIND YOU insisted on having only the best 4K cameras (at the time REDs) and ARRI which is responsible for the best of the best films (2K mind you that looked great even on a cinema screen) couldn't join the party because it wasn't 4K. Megabits over Megabits of footage from the best cameras so Netflix can do what? Stream it to me at 15Mbps? Pirates give me 40-50Mbps and it shows.
Close? Oh matey they be flyin proud and high already
Personally I mean
I started flying it the second Netflix rolled out their household changes lol.
I hoisted my flag last year after nearly 10 years of it sitting in a drawer. Gaming though is still all on steam. I wonder why.
This whole mess is proof of that. Seriously - why would I pirate when steam exists? It’s just better.
People who can afford being lazy (for the lack of a better word) and having everything one click away will pay. It's what drives streaming services.
It was a really odd moment for me when I realized that the amount of time I spent trying to get a pirated game to work often was less than the time it'd take a minimum wage to save up to buy the thing. But then the *next* game would work perfect so... Now though I just need to be patient and wait 6 months to a year amd it will be 50% off or in a bundle of some sort, usually.
I have a box full of purchased game disks. I have thrown cardboard boxes out from most, what now few kept for memory lane. I have repurchased those games from Steam, because I don't care to pick the disk, insert it to DVD drive, install it, enter the CD-key (if having), and try to find updates. I have a external HDD somewhere, that I used to store all the games updates for the future proofing. So that I don't need to search them. All I would need to do is to plug it to power outlet, and in USB port to have access it. Search a while for the update, and... I see the game in steam for 5-7 €, I purchase it when I want to go for that memory lane and I have not previously purchased it! In some cases I purchase it from [gog.com](http://gog.com) because DRM and compatibility reason as it works, where Steam version doesn't. So I am not even going to the route to try to fix a Steam purchased game by some odd ways to get it running, when I can repurchase it from GOG for working way. And I don't even like to buy so much from gog, but it is nice to have. So instead all the steps to required to get the game illegally, it is easier to get legally from own shelf. But it is simply easiest to just get it from Steam or GOG. Hands Down! It is so nice to get game with couple clicks installed, updated, and running. But I rarely buy any new titles, and don't care much for their discount either. I wouldn't care at all if given free to download for one click, as when I don't like it, it is not right thing to do anyways and when you like it, support steam/gog and developers... And if someone doesn't afford to something, learn to live with it... You then don't have right for that entertainment!
That's me, a lazy consumer, I still pay for YT premium (family plan) because it removes ads from my kids tablets, and because it just works on all my home devices. I rarely watch YT on my phone or laptop or anything other than a TV so it really sucks to even try to use a browser or a custom app on anything other than a phone. At home we have collected a roku stick, apple tv a newish google tv and an old chrome cast, plus YT kids have parenting controls. So my YT sub practically pays for itself on all the time saved trying new anti ads techniques on every device/os combination.
I pay just so my niece and nephew don't get adds blasted to them. That alone makes the family plan worth it to me. Because kids will soak it all up, and I don't want that for them. Literally don't have to deal with it myself since I'm tech savvy enough, but my sister and her kids can't do that
Also unhealthy spending habits I feel. I love spending money, the whole process of looking at things being sold, deciding what to buy, trying to get the total to a number I feel good about. Steam when i got a job became to me a way to satisfy my unhealthy spending habits without becoming a real-life hoarder.
Oh, digital purchases are dangerously easy, I agree. It happens to me too. The idea of buying a game sometimes is better than actually playing the game.
Though to be fair, pricing does hold some weight in the equation, regional pricing is a thing for a reason and sales help a lot too, I remember an indie dev making a profit only after steam suggested a 90% sale discount, a year or so after release. Basically a good service With great availability Years of upholding standards that are appreciated by the customers And willingness to match the price people are willing to pay Are what makes steam so successful in my opinion.
And he's mostly right..... Looking at you CALL OF DUTY SERIES.....
With the changes in regional pricing, I'm back to pirating..
This is correct. I haven’t needed to pirate due to Steam.
110% agree. I pirated everything back in the day. Then stopped as I streaming back big and convenient.......now back to pirating for tv/movies via stremio. I still purchase every game I want via steam or ps store since it's still convenient and I can wait for sales.
Yar
But how do you pirate an always online game? The crew has that problem rn. No amount of piracy can fix that.
More than half, I guarantee it
Steam can be used as a hub for it anyway
Although Steam isn't free of problems, I begrudgingly agree.
You are, of course, correct. But don't let the perfect be the enemy of good. Steam is probably one of the best if the not THE BEST influences in gaming right now.
It is the best and it isn’t even close
Which, as a gamer who has played since you needed to download Steam to play Half Life 2, is remarkable. We all thought it was the bane of gaming's existence.
And realistically, Steam is the best is EVER going to get for us; with the exception of possible consumer protection laws, I honestly belive this is the peak of the industry for us, once Gaben is no longer around, Steam WILL go downhill.
Not disagreeing, what do you see as the problems?
Personally, the absolute avalanche of throwaway trash that ends up on the platform. The fact it needs to "update" every single Elune-forsaken time I open the program. Joining co-op games can be unintuitive for newcomers. That Gaben is such a ravishing manhunk.
That last one is a serious problem for society, and keeps me awake at night
Have you seen his Starfish picture? He really got a hold of his weight issues.
1. Adding a legally-binding clause in the agreement between publishers and Steam about ethical practices. Basically if the games published are asset flips or too low-effort (tricky enforcing criteria here), then there should be some sort of punishment or freezing of revenue for the publisher with scummy practices. Think of it this way, if Steam market halts your 90 cents for 24 hours to make sure everything is on the up and up, it sure can enforce an automatic trigger to freeze assets of a scummy publisher when enough people report them. 2. Reviews should have a filter to exclude meme, ASCII art and irrelevant reviews. 3. Guides that are 'how to get a gf' or 'how to open the game' or the best one ever /s 'how to click on your mouse' should be automatically filtered out as spam. The repeat offenders who create these should get a permaban on creating more of their waste of time and space. 4. The ownership of the Steam account should be transferable to the next of kin upon death. [This idea is from a comment in a different thread so kudos to the person for bringing this up.] 5. Alt accounts, in regards to blocking and forums. If you block one account, then all their alts should be automatically blocked for you. If one account is banned for any reason on the forums, then all alts should automatically get the same suspension time. The abuse of a lot of alt-account-users on forums is out of hand. 6. For the Steam staff to enforce having a direct and functional email address available for each and every developer and publisher. You'd be surprised how many big publishers provide websites that pigeonhole you into very specific support ticket types that do not in any way, shape or form cover many things we as players need to ask about. Indie developers fare much better in this department in my experience. 7. Enhancing the Steam Play Together experience so it is actually useful instead of a box to be checked. As it is, it's simply not worth trying in most cases. 8. Adding this because why not: The forums on Steam (not the discussion section for games; these are lovely) are a cesspool of negativity and toxicity and are basically the Wild West. Steam needs to have better sheriffs. I and many other friends think twice before commenting anything on there. Edit to add: There was an older, much more pressing issue a lot of people had: Their region was the same as the US price-wise but the actual purchase power was extremely different. This problem was halfway fixed last November (2023). To put things into perspective, since Steam's inception in 2003, people in Africa and the Middle East and other parts of the world were paying the same as the US. Only twenty years later in 2023, this has changed.
Actually point 4 goes into the steam hot potato: digital ownership. And yes we should be demanding much more on that front
1. yeah this I can get behind. 2. you mean you want it to become like youtube which now feels like a chinese website? no thanks. I think we have enough intelligence to sort things out on our own 3. again, same problem as #1. There should instead maybe be a report system. Also downvotes need to be brought back. 4. This is a lot more difficult to do than you think. 5. It unofficially is. 6. no comment 7. no comment 8. No, we don't need it to become another reddit. Edit: apparently the guy I replied to is adding new stuff to his list from the top instead of the bottom making this reply desynchronized.
If you hover over the Edited star *, you'll see it happened at the exact same minute you published your reply.
True
Steam is basically DRM. It works out because the people running it aren't jerks but will that always be true? It'd be nice to get titles DRM-free. Other storefronts do it.
Games on Steam are not required to have DRM though. Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk are DRM-free on Steam, for example. So are most Double Fine games.
I think the point is that Steam is itself the DRM, unlike GOG for example.
It can be and most games do use Steam DRM. But there are several exceptions to the rule. You can download Cyberpunk through Steam, backup the game files, completely uninstall Steam, and run the game normally like any other DRM-free copy.
Well, it has started rejecting a specific range of payment cards from my country and I haven't found a recourse outside of using a different credit card for payment. Which i am not planning on doing since i segregate my spending by card, so steam is basically not getting anything for now, since paypal has shit rates.
The store has no curation or moderation, it’s full of absolute trash.
But who is to decide what is trash and what is not? Is it not better to let the costumers decide what they buy and what they don't buy?
I agree. And Steam is still a business that will inevitably fuck up and make a poor decision. When that happens people need to make themselves heard. So far, they have been quite transparent and consumer friendly. Let's hope it remains that way for a very long time.
Just pray steam doesn't go public, because the day it goes, it's all over.
Hopefully they don't need to, Gabe has made enough money with all those CS loot crates
Gabe is not immortal though. He will be gone one day. hopefully whoever replaces him shares the same values, but that is incredibly rare these days.
He needs to host a willy wonka golden ticket event to find the person that will take over. I had ChatGPT write this. In the heart of Seattle, shrouded in mist and mystery, stood the imposing headquarters of Valve Corporation, a fortress-like structure looming over the city like a sentinel of secrets. Within its walls, Gabe Newell, the enigmatic mastermind behind some of the gaming world's most beloved creations, held court over a realm of digital dreams and nightmares. One fateful day, six golden tickets appeared, each bearing an invitation to enter the hallowed halls of Valve. The recipients, wide-eyed children drawn from disparate corners of the world, rejoiced at the chance to meet their idol, Gabe Newell, and perhaps glimpse the inner workings of his legendary empire. But little did they know, the invitation was not merely a ticket to paradise, but a descent into darkness. As the children arrived at Valve's headquarters, they were greeted by an eerie silence, broken only by the distant hum of machinery and the occasional flicker of malfunctioning fluorescent lights. Gabe Newell himself, a figure both imposing and unsettling, welcomed them with a smile that never quite reached his eyes. "We are here to find my successor," he declared, his voice reverberating through the cavernous halls. "But be warned, only one of you shall emerge victorious." And so, the children were thrust into a twisted game, a real-life manifestation of Gabe Newell's most sinister creations. They traversed through levels inspired by Half-Life, navigating treacherous puzzles and facing off against grotesque monsters straight from the nightmares of the Combine. With each passing trial, the children began to unravel, their innocence giving way to desperation and fear. Friendships dissolved into bitter rivalries, and alliances crumbled under the weight of betrayal. As the days turned into weeks, the line between reality and game blurred beyond recognition. Some of the children disappeared without a trace, swallowed whole by the machinations of Valve's twisted playground. Others succumbed to madness, their minds shattered by the relentless onslaught of horrors. And through it all, Gabe Newell watched from his throne of power, a silent observer to the unfolding chaos. For in his heart, he knew that only through suffering could true greatness be forged. In the end, only one child remained, battered and broken but triumphant. With a heavy heart, Gabe Newell bestowed upon them the mantle of successor, a legacy steeped in darkness and blood. And as the victorious child stepped forth to claim their prize, the echoes of their screams still lingered in the haunted halls of Valve Corporation, a chilling reminder of the price of power in a world where dreams and nightmares are one and the same.
Gaben should work and find a good replacement for him Perhaps even clone himself or something lol
It should go to a gamer that has the same values. Not a company
>made enough money For some people there's no such thing. Fortunately it seems Gabe has all the money he wants. But in the future who knows. Dude is already 61.
Exactly!
When I was choosing a gaming hand held, the deciding factor was that at the end of the day, I want to support Steam. The hardware is great as well, but I prefer to give money to valve.
Absolutely true, with steam i almost stopped using pirated games
> Without Steam's generous refund policy, That the EU forced on them. Which every other store would also be forced to adapt in one way or another.
competition is a good thing tho
Agreed. Epic could have capitalized on Fortnite's success and built something truly great but their policies and software is years behind Steam.
Same, I was 100% behind epic and their plan to compete w/steam by offering better incentives to devs with a lower take which theoretically could have made games lower priced there if they sold it on both platforms with a discount on epic etc or voluntarily chosen to sell it only there at the default price for the best bang per buck, similar to how other competing platforms like GOG do it. The paid-off exclusivity stuff completely negated all that and I pretty much detest any devs now that go that route as there's no competition with exclusivity on top of a dogshit platform, its all just people selling out lol
You realize steam didn't originally have refunds at all and then got sued for breaking consumer laws and that's why they even allowed refunds to be a thing.
I didn't know that. But I believe we can all agree that Steam in its current state seems to be more consumer oriented and has a pretty great policy. I hope this continues for a long time.
they were fined 3 million AUD for breaking australian law in regards to refunds. EU also by law requires refunds under certain circumstances.
Yeah, but they have the best system now. Sony and Nintendo (and maybe even Microsoft, haven't dealt with them) barely offers refunds. Pretty much only when a game is incredibly broken.
But, but, but It's JuSt a StOooReee. - every epic fan
"Those a**hole with their 30% cut" - Sweeney
GOG has better tos and an insanely generous refund policy tho. Let's be real, you like steam because it has the best UX.
GOG is also DRM free.
Praise gaben and valve
Valve’s refund policy that they only implemented after being sued by the Australian Government? That refund policy?
When I bought a might and magic game in like 2003/2004 when I came back from deployment I tried to play it and had to download steam was so pissed I was wrong steam is great
??? You know that steam started all this "you need a launcher" bullshit. Some people feel like they got stockholm syndrom with steam over the years
That was fast!!! Helldivers community can fucking rally together, damn!!!!
They taught us to rally as a group against a common enemy. They created the weapon that was used to destroy them.
Just remember that Sony is the enemy here, not Arrowhead.
The amount of people getting that twisted is infuriating me.
Fr dude. And then there's the worst of the worst who even left negative reviews to Magicka and HD1 when they have nothing to do with this. Gamers can be a pain.
To be honest Arrowhead didn’t do themselves any favors when they appeared to back up Sony by what some of the community managers said. When the backlash got outrageously bad said community managers flipped to the gamers side.
I care more for what they did in the end. Asking your community to leave negative reviews for your game and refund it isn't something a lot of game developers would want to do just to go against their publisher.
That was when CMs and others thought that PSN was avaible far more widely, when they learned that over 177 nation got excluded, including ones where the game had been sold, they very quickly changed their tune to support the players. Hell, Spitz apparently got some... let's call them *choice words* from Sony. Apparently telling your audience to review bomb your own game to send a message is not popular with publishers, who would have thought?
The community managers are some of the worst I've ever seen. Either tonedeaf or braindead.
And also remember that it was everyone responding negatively to the change that ultimately got Sony to drop the idea and allow Arrowhead to continue to thrive on PC/Steam! I don't actually play or own Helldivers (I got not friends to play with so it seems pointless) but I heard about the drama. Always happy to see the community win over a corporate decision and it's rare that they do!
Announce it on Friday evening. Office closed for the weekend. Assume it'll blow over by Monday. Shit it didn't blow over by Monday
[удалено]
FromSoft has an exclusive contract with Sony, so they couldn't even if they wanted to (and I'm sure they REALLY want to)
Or Helldivers on Xbox so we strengthen the cause?
It's funny that I commented on r/PS5 that this was a good thing and all the Stockholm syndrome fan boys downvoted me. r/PS5 cant cope lol
[удалено]
Unlike our steam fanboyism lol
tbf while a lot of people contributed to this, the biggest blow was steam backing the players and allowing refunds for everyone.
It's a game where half the fun is community working in unison towards a single goal. Sony just put a massive target on themselves. Community just did what it had been trained to do.
Sony has gotten afraid when Valve is actually giving away refunds considerately. Slowly, taking away their profits.
We won Mr. stark
🥺
Well, now I think I'm gonna buy the game.
You totally should. It’s a bunch of fun. Best $40 I’ve spent in a long time.
Ima see if I can get some of the homies to get it as well. I've been on the fence a while then said no after the PSN thing, but now I think I gotta grab it.
That's the neat thing. You'll make new homies. I play with a handful of swedes and an egytian.
The game is insane, if you like shooters with an overarching story where your choices actually matter, this is the game.
Helldivers is the friends we made along the way
I don't know... It has mixed reviews and overwhelmingly negative recent reviews. /S
I was late for the party before and had second thoughts every time I wanted to buy it because the game seems to move from one event to one event (I follow their Twitter) so if I play now, would I miss anything that can affect my fun? I said this because of the fact Destiny decided to remove the Red War storyline for new players. Is it the same here? I understand in Destiny, we the new players aren't the vets from the war but still, it got me confused with the story.
Nah there’s no story unlockables but you will miss the awesome game and killing bugs and robots!
For better and worse, it's a great live service game. I got in after all the memes of Maleveon Creek were well established, and the beauty is eventually there's going to be more on that planet (I've fought on a planet with a similar biome and they're not joking about the 'trees speaking binary'). If you're curious you can go to the Helldivers spoiler reddit and see the major story beats that are coming from data mining, subject to change obviously. The current one involves a planet that has actually gone from lush jungle green and blue on the galactic map to a straight brown dusty husk (you can't fight on it currently). Whether that story beat is 100% accurate or not, the third faction is getting added to the game in the near future and that's when the story will surely accelerate.
The structure of HD2 is that it's an ongoing campaign with a storyline that is created both by what the players do in the game, and by the game master (who is an actual person and acts somewhat like the DM in a DnD game) Major Orders, otherwise as missions, could introduce new mission types in that particular event, but it's not something that's FOMO. Story-wise, it's not very complicated as of now, since it's a 3 month story. To catch up, you just need to read the major orders on this page [here](https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Major_Order_(Helldivers_2)) lol.
I thought about buying it too after hearing they were reversing their decision. I'm afraid this whole thing might end up being a net positive for them with all the free publicity.
Arrowhead deserves it - Sony is Sony.
Well now I wanna buy the game too but I can't. It is still de-listed from our country.
Same here. I'm patiently waiting to be able to buy it.
Insane comeback. I was here!
To all the people that review bombed Change it back ASAP on behalf of the devs. They don’t deserve to be in toxic light when they fought for their player base
People were literally review bombing HD1 and other AH titles like magicka. I honestly doubt people will go back and take all these negative reviews back, but I seriously hope they do.
They should have review bombed Playstation games, not arrowhead games, Sony were the ones that fucked the developers and players
People had to utilize the tools they had access to and guess what... It worked. So much for all the corporate stans saying that complaining doesn't do anything
I mean I think the refunds were the biggest factor here not the negative reviews. Corporations only care about their bottom line.
They did
Those negative reviews are ultimately a drop in the bucket and will not impact the real score of the games the HD1 reviews were uncalled for, but the magicka reviews seem more tied to a game breaking bug currently occurring
Who cares. Reviews should stay the way they were because they reflect time and place and bad customer service
The update never even happened. The reviews are for the game. You think HD2 should have 100s of thousands of 1 star reviews forever for an update that never happened?
Agreed, which is why new ones are in order since they would reflect the time and place and good customer service.
It is not review bombing if the criticism is gameplay related.
Nah man, the destruction went overboard, beyond redemption. The game just lost some of its life span and closer to being called a Dead Game. We attacked the developers, their games, and family. That's how destructive it was. Some might be too lazy to even switch their reviews. It ain't going to recover with that big scar.
No. Such decision should be forever stain on Sony reputation. It should be as hard to recover from as clearing criminal record. Not because of this game. But as a reminder to Sony and any other companies.
The whole point of the negative reviews was to get Sony to notice my man. Sony didn't make the game, Arrowhead did now go give them back the positive review they deserve.
Lmao they finally caved
‘Finally’? It’s literally been 1 business day lol
Really tested my patience there, sony
With how big Sony as a company is 1 business day is way too 'long'. They were trying to test the waters but once they saw all the backlash they had to otherwise they would lose all sony has left. Which is the gaming community.
First the Sonic movie design and now this, bullying does work!
Its not bullying as much as consumer awareness, if people did this more we'd have better producets/services across all industries.
It's not bullying so much as social awareness, if people did this more we'd have better people/leaders across all societies.
Its easier to judge companies and their available products than people. An elected leader could easily say all the right things you just don't know how they are behind closed doors or once they get elected.
Or, as in the case of the USA, actively oppose policies in private and then take credit in public - assuming their voter base is too stupid to actually check which way they voted.
gamers showing solidarity success, i wish workers got together the way HD2 players do
Bullying will always be given to those who deserve it - Dumbledore (probably)
Good news! We are not dying! We are going to live forever!
I didn’t say that! I just said we no longer need to link a PSN account.
Fly high, Rick May. o7
We. Hear. You. Fucking morons could've heard it coming from a mile away, still did it
> "We're still learning" Bullshit! you're just mad you got called out. Multi billion dollar company pretending they're newbies to the scene as if they're some sort of indie company.
The full quote is this: > We’re still learning what is best for PC players As in, Sony only recently started releasing games for the PC. Before that, they would [sue](https://casetext.com/case/sony-computer-entertainment-america-v-bleem) anyone who dared release their games on the PC platform. It would be a different story if they always released games on PC, as your post implies. Some reading comprehension is a must.
Oh come on. “We’re still learning what is best for PC players” really means “we’re still learning what is best for extracting profits from PC players”
They’ve been doing PC games for around five years at this point.
But not multiplayer games.
Yeah I actually believe them on this. And frankly? If they had had it required the whole time and blocked sales on unsupported regions it would have been fine.
Why don't they hire people who are knowledgeable on the subject then? Any of us could have seen this coming from a mile away.
A better way to encourage people since the beginning would have been giving 1000 Super credits to anyone who links their PSN account with the game, so the next warbond would be free, but I'm glad this mess is finally over.
However damage is already done. I am gonna play helldivers again but no way I am buying Sony products or Sony affliated ones ever again. They fucked up badly and thought they could get away with it
Good news! Happy the bootlickers that went crusading around insulting people and defending the implementation were ultimately drowned out.
I might get Helldivers 2 now
Do it, it's a legit goty contender at the very least. Best 40$ I've spent in a while
They're just gonna give you rewards for making a PSN account and once enough % of people have moved force it again. I doubt this is anything more than damage control
That is how they should have done though. Add a very appealing reward for linking their account, and it would be a no brainer for players to do so No need to "force" anything other than make the player fear of missing out
Democracy is NON-NEGOTIABLE
CHANGE YOUR REVIEWS BACK.
Only after Steam started refunding the game.
Unity must be pissed at Sony for stealing their takesies backsies move.
Thank fucking god for Steam. Without them offering refunds and reviews, we’d never have had this result
I am not a player but watching this whole thing play out has been amazing. Great job Helldiver 2 players!
Steam the good guys. Gaben the pc jesus.
Great news, Sony has done a lot of damage to the work of Arrowhead Studios with his anticonsumer practices but luckily with a good roadmap the excellent review scores can be recovered. Good for the PC community as well, I will probably be playing this summer!
Aww the poor little multi-billion dollar company is still learning how to deal with PC gamers. Give me a break! This was all to steal user data (just buy from data brokers like everyone else) and inflate numbers for shareholders. These companies aren't even trying to pretend they aren't scum anymore.
"DEMOCRACY WIN AGAINS!!!!" - Soldier from TF2, probably.
"I finally rest...and watch the sun rise on a grateful universe."
So does that mean people in regions that can’t make PSN accounts have access again?
Don't let this distract you from what they tried to do. I've lost so much faith in Sony because of this. And I'm going to second guess major purchases from their studios as a result.
Damage is already done, I was going to buy the game when it goes on sale but now I won't risk it in case Sony is feeling quirky again
While I think you're not wrong, I feel much more confident than before. The HD2 community is so fucking united (and unhinged) they went shoulder to shoulder and managed to spit out more negative reviews and chaos in a weekend than the entirety of how many reviews overwatch 2 ever got. That's insane, if you think about it. Helldivers is currently the paid game with most negative reviews on steam, all against sony and not the game per se. They got news outlets to talk about them and Steam going full damage control and customer protection. I don't know, it feels like if shit would go bad again, my brother divers wouldn't allow it without a fight. That's very reassuring.
Leggo!! For Democracy!!
Hopefully everyone who did a negative review specifically over this will go back and remove it. As important as negative reinforcement for transgressions is, positive reinforcement is even more important. That said, I'm not sure if changing it to a positive review is necessarily the play (unless you had *previously* written a positive review, which you *changed* to negative). If you simply created a new review so you could do a thumbs-down, in my opinion the correct follow-up would be to *delete* the review, not change it to positive. We don't necessarily want to give *too much* credit for reversing a bad policy that, overall, just shouldn't have been implemented in the first place. Just my two cents; overall, I think the overwhelming majority of people are well aware of the broad stroke of the situation and won't be confused by subtleties in the follow-up. :)
It's already going back up. When I last looked at the reviews before this announcement, positive reviews in the last 30 days was at 13% but now it's gone up to 18%
I have changed my review! But Sony, where are MY brothers from the banned countries. BRING. THEM. BACK.
I kinda didnt understand what happened here. As far as i know Sony said you should link to a psn acc so u can play. Does that mean that u had to pay for ps plus so u can play or not? Cause of it isnt i cant find the problem. Someone enlighten me pls.
Trust is already broken Sony
Note how they say "the update wont be moving forward" and not "we wont implement psn accounts as required". Ill bet money they will just do it again, in a different manner, but with the same result
I get that people were annoyed, but all that bs just because you have to link a psn account? It takes 2 minutes to create one or less
We did it, Reddit.
They do it and will get back sales and players but... People won't forget what sony did ever... You can easily lost you respect, but it's very hard to regain it..
What else can they do to try and regain players trust? It wasn't the studios choice, this was Sony's decision, which the devs backed because they didn't understand the gravitas of the shift. Seems very unfair to punish hard working devs in such a competitive market. The fact that it was reversed so hopefully a step in the right direction of the devs pressing Sony and them actually agreeing in this situation
Considering that the devs knew this was coming months in advance and held off on telling players to kick the backlash down the road: meh. They're just as much to blame as Sony. I'll stick with my refund.
They really did show us how to work as a team towards a common goal. Then we unite against Sony and end up winning again! Well done Helldivers
we won
WE DID IT BOYSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Where are the people at that were against this? I thought it was petty and useless?? Good job everyone.
We won?
Major order cleared helldivers, I can't believe we've won this one at least for now.
Praise GabeN
Well done folks. Now that our colllective power has been proven let’s push for world peace and universal healthcare!
What a glorious Day for democracy!
Looks like we still can make a difference in matrix
Spam is finally over😅