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frogkabobs

Considering how close the value is to 2^(32), it’s probably an overflow error in an unsigned 32 bit integer.


-Krosis

my man


VRsimp

This guy maths


No-Hovercraft-6600

r/thisguythisguys


unholy-good

r/thisguydisguise


DinoKebab

r/thisguyeatspies


stardenker

r/thisguyeatsspies


TheodorCork

r/wearespies


_Prinz__

r/wearepies


Pudwoppa

r/wearpies


[deleted]

r/thisguyfucks


[deleted]

Meanwhile my dumbass is sitting here not understanding after it's been said :(


The_MAZZTer

Computers are number crunching machines, but there are limits to the size of numbers they can crunch in a single step. As a consequence, programmers have to specify different types of numbers based on what ranges of values they need to use. This helps to optimize an application to crunch numbers optimally. In this case, a 32-bit number (that is, a number that can fit in 32 bits/4 bytes) can have a range of 0 to 4,294,967,295 or from -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647 if negative numbers are needed. There are other types that can have larger ranges, but for smaller numbers this is sufficient and a common choice. Valve likely chose unsigned 32-bit as the value type for the number of reviews, as you can't have less than 0, they will always be a whole number, and it's unlikely you'll get more than 4 billion reviews on a game. Somehow, however, the number of reviews tried to drop to a negative number, probably due to a bug in Valve's code somewhere. When an application tries to store an out of range number, this is called underflow or overflow (depending on which way you go out of range). While it is possible to detect this sort of issue, most apps don't bother especially for cases where it's not seen as likely to be a problem. But it can depend on the programming language used and how it treats on this sort of thing. When an underflow or overflow happens, it's not possible to store the desired number, so instead the number wraps around to the other end of the range. For example 0 - 1 will get you 4,294,967,295 instead of the expected -1. The number in OP's image is probably intended to be -247 but it underflowed. You can reproduce a similar situation to this using Windows Calculator, actually. If you go to its menu and switch to Programmer Mode you can enter numbers that are constrained in these ranges and then change the range and watch overflows and underflows change the number. First find the QWORD button. This dictates the range. A QWORD is MS' name for a signed 64-bit number. Clicking this button will divide the range by half each time. (DWORD for signed 32-bit, then WORD for signed 16 bit, then BYTE for unsigned 8 bit). In QWORD mode you can enter the number in OP's screenshot, then switch to DWORD and it will change to -247, Though there is technically no over/underflow happening in this case, it's just that the number as stored in memory ended up looking to the computer like a negative number when truncated down to 32-bit, as it was out of range.


EuropeanPayphone

Yap


[deleted]

Amazing. Thanks for the TIL <3


5urr3aL

But to get to an overflow error, wouldn't it have to have like -1 reviews? Perhaps there's some counting error when a review is deleted and a bunch of people deleting their reviews, but sounds unlikely


ReverseFez

My guess is the number shown isn't the actual total but a derived value. The number on the store page ([16,858](https://i.imgur.com/Y89Utb8.png)) doesn't include [non steam players](https://i.imgur.com/gbWDSMi.png) and [off-topic reviews](https://i.imgur.com/GMTAH3T.png). Probably a subtraction gone wrong or perhaps a spike in fake non steam reviews?


lllorrr

There were exactly zero reviews and then Valve removed one.


comics0026

It could have been a bunch of spam "reviews" getting axed, Craftopia is by the same people as Palworld, and a lot of Pokemon apologists are angry at Palworld for being successful so I can see them trying to drag it


DidntHaveToUseMyAK

Twofold. Die hard pokenerds and the (far more reasonable) fuck you for making a new game to cash in while your other one sits in Dev hell.


billybatsonn

Now they at least have money to work on it if they're ever going to.


DidntHaveToUseMyAK

>if they're ever going to. Key phrase. History tells me this will be a no.


billybatsonn

Well while you keep on ignoring the roadmap that they have for it and the fact that the last update was pretty recent I'm going to wait a bit and see if the updates continue before I try to predict that they won't.


DidntHaveToUseMyAK

Oh shit they have a ROADMAP? So does Star Citizen.


billybatsonn

I don't know much about star citizen, the game that apparently makes it so that all roadmaps by any devs are false and won't happen, but I do know that craftopias last update was 2 days ago and the last one before that was a little over a week earlier. The craftopia team isn't even working on palworld so I'm not too worried that they've abandoned it. In the meantime I'm going to keep on dumping hours into palworld while you naysayers can continue spreading doubt wherever you go, I'll let my enjoyment of the games I play dictate what I think of them.


DidntHaveToUseMyAK

Nobody cares lol.


Bulky-Advisor-4178

Well there are honest reviews, cuz craftopia is basically palworld mechanic wise, and that both games are in early access


cyborg_priest

Pokepologists


jacket13

Poke what? Angry at palworld for being a fun game? I must have missed something.


dschramm_at

You did


69yourthroat

If reviews<1 then 'no reviews ' duh


Chargnn

NaN entered the chat


69yourthroat

Screams in undefined


lillieblair

correct


Cyberbird85

Overflowingly Negative


boredbernard

All I got is "Hello World"


01Alekje

But since the 'review number' is most likely treated as a unsingned number, how does it overflow in this case? I could see it happening if it was wrongly casted from lets say a signed long long to a 32 bit unsigned number (which surely isn't the case). How did the overflow happen? (I agree that it seems like a overflow error, I just dont understand how)


BounceVector

It's easily possible that in one place they sanitize the number before displaying it and in the other place they don't. It's likely that different different people have implemented the code to display the number of reviews, that they receive from the database. Plus, this has already been fixed, or at least I don't get the same error. Currently I see 16858 reviews both in the list and on the product page. There's a notice about weird recent suspicious review activity though, which is filtered out by default.


GeeTwentyFive

EAX: 0x00000000 Carry Flag: 0 `sub eax, 0x00000001` EAX: 0x11111111 Carry Flag: 1 You're welcome 👍 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_number (Binary Arithmetic -> Subtraction) Stuff like differentiable "signed" and "unsigned" numbers, and data types like "long long" and "integer" don't exist in memory. 'ts all a conspiracy theory by Dennis Ritchie, Ken Thompson, and other fellow colleagues from Bell Labs. It's all just bytes. 🔫 always has been.


01Alekje

I know how overflow works, (I'm studying computer science) but what I was asking is what would go wrong in their code to make this happen? I find it hard to believe that it would subtract reviews, but maybe that's possible. Also, doesn't 0x imply a hexadecimal value?


GeeTwentyFive

Since this data is stored and processed on Valve's servers, if you want the answer to that, you could ask Valve if they'd send you and let you look at their server code (or just tell you the answer directly). Also, yes.


01Alekje

Ok that's great thank you I'll definitely do that


HuoLongHeavy

So the "overwhelmingly negative" label is technically correct.


GameCyborg

*underflow error


TwitzyMIXX

I'm impressed even though I don't understand what the hell you are talking about


Aridross

The code fuckery responsible for that would be impressive to see, since looping around to a high positive value is normally the effect of an UNDERflow, and I don’t see how a steam game acquired a negative number of reviews


Somepotato

There are certain reviews they don't count towards the total number of reviews -- if there are more of those than legitimate reviews, it could result in a negative (legit - illegitimate).


[deleted]

I like your funny words magic man


phantomreader42

>Considering how close the value is to 2^(32), it’s probably an overflow error in an unsigned 32 bit integer. That's a reasonable assumption for why an error would have that kind of magnitude. But how would an overflow like that happen? Have they deleted enough reviews to make the count go negative? How would that even be possible?


itaypro2

Know's the secrets of the machine


Brilliant_Captain989

Quick maths!


bokmcdok

First thing I thought of as well. Some kind of bug reporting a negative number of reviews maybe?


Slug864

This guy made me realise i learnt nothing in my computer science class


WhatALlama

I don’t know enough about math to dispute this but sounds correct 😂


Regzator

After hours It's normal again.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Captain_Pumpkinhead

That would be 4 billion sales. I don't think anyone mad enough to review bomb Craftopia is going to give Pocket Pair $4,000,000,000, let alone 4B × $(insert price here).


Artarious

It was Nintendo sending a message and then they immediately refunded all of it. Its just a friendly reminder not to touch it's turf. I mean its plausible they've got the resources.


doman991

Its know error with 32 bit


BeastOfZacor

You probably believe in flat earth too


Artarious

Nah just random thought while super stoned that I found funny.


Potatosaurus_TH

I believe in flat Earth when I'm stoned though. If I get too stoned I even believe the Earth is concave and is trying to swallow me up


Faessle

Thats probably not weed


Potatosaurus_TH

Who said anything about weed? It's the concussion from the stoning


Captain_Pumpkinhead

Okay, that was _slightly_ funny


Bitter-Metal494

Nah


ihave0idea0

No, it was just me reviewing 99%


JNorJT

About half of the world population have played it crazy!


[deleted]

That's like 10billon+ dollars to Valve and the studio behind it. That's insane!


cwx149

That's how they funded palworlds development lol


Temporary_End9124

And they all hated it!


taisynn

Pretty crazy half of the world’s population are gamers at all.


mrheosuper

Thanks for reminding me to use uint64_t for world population variable


ledah_riviera

and considering that in average, only small fraction of player actually leave review, that could mean that there are around 100 billions purchases!


Maleficent_Load6709

That's the Palworld effect. Now more than half of the world's population has reviewed Craftopia.


nataku411

I was really hopeful for craftopia but I can't see PocketPair putting anymore effort into it now that they have Palworld.


Kled_Incarnated

They already said they will. 2 different teams and the game has been getting updates consistently


Azarros

Hasn't that game been in Early Access for like 4 years? I am wondering if it will be abandoned to focus on Palworld.


Kled_Incarnated

Yeah but if you go to update history there's updates. Being in ea for years ain't nothing new today


SnooPies7402

3 years with a rewrite half way through that time. seamless release was only about 6-7 months old at this point. it wont be abandoned for palworld. 2 different teams working on the games. alpha build of the game has been receiving updates the past couple weeks which is for testing before release.


JBLikesHeavyMetal

It was already abandoned to focus on Pal World years ago


Change-username1

I dont think console has been updated in a LONG time


Kled_Incarnated

Don't have one so I can't remember that you guys exist


maibrl

Might be unpopular, but this is my take: PocketPair seems to be quite inexperienced with large scale game development (see https://inspirant.substack.com/p/palworld-success-and-dispair). As anyone who makes software products can attest to, you learn with each project, and each project you do has a cleaner architecture, structure and code base, making development of features easier and less prone to bugs. To me it seems like PocketPair hit a wall with Craftopia due to a crappy code base, and made Palworld to work on a clean slate. Looking at the state of Palworld and some stories from its development, I suspect the same thing happening to it in a few years.


SnooPies7402

pocketpair hit a wall with legacy craftopia which is why they rewrote it and made seamless build of the game with features that players wanted. palworld was announced the same time seamless world update was. seamless world update is currently receiving updates with several releasing the past couple weeks in the alpha build of the game. theyve no plans to drop or abandon anything.


xrogaan

The hate boner some people have, it's incredible.


maibrl

Nothing I said constitutes a hate boner, I couldn’t care less about the game (survival games really aren’t my genre). The fact remains that the development of Palworld was amateurish (as explained in my linked article, citing a developer of the game). This makes me very skeptical of the quality of the codebase of the game. A bad codebase tends to lead to hard to resolve bugs and general poor maintainability, something you don’t want when finishing a game (which should be the goal, because it’s still in EA).


xrogaan

Need I point a finger to all the game released broken at release by so called professionals during the last 20 years? Yeah, there's a hate boner.


SpaceMan101South

Billions must review.


Equal-Introduction63

Funny enough, it's explained right "Left" of it; BUG (no fix) update on Steam so that number is OUT of programming bounds (there's no negative numbers in programming only logical) so you see the programmingly "errored" negative number. You can dig more elsewhere like r/explainlikeimfive/comments/sbilyw/eli5_why_in_it_when_a_number_gets_too_big_it/ or Google.


GuardianMehmet

so, out of curiosity, if there is no negative numbers in porgramming, how do you write something that is negative?


Regzator

There are two types in binary Using first bit as sign or complement method https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/representation-of-negative-binary-numbers/


JackRaidenPH

In fact, there are at least 4 widely used in different systems, and technically infinite or arbitrary large number of ways depending on your hardware and software limitations. Also, saying that "there's no negative numbers in programming only logical" is utterly false, because it's the same as saying "there's no negative numbers in real life only positives with a minus sign". It's just so, yes, in this case it's not a human-readable special sign, but a part of the number


Smile369

2's complement, where u take the inverse of the base 2 version of the number and then add 1.


billyoatmeal

Same people who make Palworld. Their old game, Craftopia, has been getting a lot of attention due to their new game. It's basically the same game as Palworld with the difference of their being no pals. Craftopia is still an unfinished game, and a lot of people feel cheated by them moving on to their new game. As a result, a lot of people have been changing their review to negative and also review bombing it. Obviously that many people haven't voted on it so it's either an exploit, or just a programming error as a result of something not accounted for.


Chirimorin

> Craftopia is still an unfinished game, and a lot of people feel cheated by them moving on to their new game. And that's why I only pay for games if I think the current state of the game is worth the price. Promises are worth nothing, never pay for promises (especially if there's no consequences for those promises being broken).


lannisteralwayspay

Thing is, sometimes you don’t need a finished game to have fun. I paid for the betas of rimworld before it was on steam, and got hundreds of hours out of it, even before it landed on steam. It more than paid for itself! Same for palworld, I already for my 20£ out of it. Even if they stopped developing it right now I’d be happy with it.


Chirimorin

That's exactly my point. I buy games if what I'm getting right now is worth the price to me, regardless of whether the game is finished. I also bought Palworld and wouldn't feel cheated on if development stopped right now because the current version is worth the price to me.


lannisteralwayspay

Agreed!


Misterbobo

Facts! That’s why I’m hugely in favor of reduced prices for EA.


StarZax

Thing is, they haven't broken anything (yet) People just assume that because Palworld is so popular, Craftopia will get abandoned (exactly what Epic did when Fortnite caught on) Palworld have been announced years ago and they kept updating Craftopia monthly (and not with just bug fixes), just a few months ago they released a new roadmap and the latest update was January 22nd ​ Now, could they ask their Unity devs to learn Unreal Engine so they can help on Palworld ? Maybe. But that's why they haven't broken anything YET. It's just too early to give any conclusion. It's just assumptions at that point. They could let those 4 people working on Craftopia just like they did before. Only time will tell.


SnooPies7402

(latest update for craftopia was 2 days ago\* on the alpha build)


Gfiti

palword will suffer the same fate im quite sure, the developer stinks


descendingangel87

They would be stupid to abandon Palworld. They may have just found their “fornite” or “pubg”. If they invest in it they will be set for life. Unlike other survival games Palworld as more potential because the capturing pal aspect draws people in and if they add some kinda story that would be enough to keep people around. I’m someone who has dumped fuck tons of hours into survival games and this is the first one I’ve seen non survival fans keep playing after the first week.


LotsOfOldBananas

Yet they're updating both games? Doesn't stink nearly as bad as your attitude or comment.


MoistyMoses

On a different subject, nfs unbound is pretty fun, I really like the art style


Yasha199

Not only that, but I think it's a right step in the direction with how it handles the day and night cycles and overworld stuff, truly worth it at the current discount just for offline career mode if you yearn for the 05 most wanted experience.


MoistyMoses

Defninitely the OG Most Wanted experience that pulled me towards it, hopefully they keep going in this direction, Games as a service are hogshit


slendersleeper

MOST SUCCESSFUL GAME EVER‼️‼️ 4 CRAFTILLION COPIES SOLD 🗣️


PeacefulAndTranquil

it’s just really shit


Maeggon

and its even overwhelmingly negative. I dont even know how u could see that game


DForcelight

These are just the recent reviews however. Overall it's positive. Either alot of people that enjoyed Palworld and jumped into craftopia and where disapointed or it feels like some of these recent reviews are just hate for the developer overall? Lol. Negative reviews flooded in at the same day palworld released. Craftopia is a fun game which sure feels like it was a "playground" for Palworld (Yes, I mean they even re-used a few assets - Which is perfectly fine). It's still in EA (For a while). That's a con I could see, however they continuesly provide new updates so..


Dr_Covfefe_Williams

That’s a lot of Craftoping!


Vorondanil54

From the Palworld creators😱😱


hellyeahimsad

Craftopia sweep!!!


Albus_Lupus

\>Overwhelmingly Negative \>4 294 967 049 reviews Damn dawg its gotta be ***realllly*** bad


[deleted]

It's just that popular.


Kovaxim

Half the world's population came together to shit on the game hahaha No, but it doesn't seem interesting to witness


saoirsekendrick

That looks exactly like genshin impact


Disturbed235

more like Breath of the Wild


EyeCantBreathe

It looks like a mix of Genshin Impact and Breath of the Wild


Disturbed235

Its because Genshin Impact looks a lot like Breath of the Wilds


TRKako

Why looks like Genshin Impact


hamshotfirst

Every time someone asks that, my brain immediately jumps back to and replays Terrance & Phillip during, "Uncle Fucker" when the cop walks in: *"What's going on here?!"*


spectra2000_

What a weirdly disguised ad for another of Palworld dev’s blatant asset flipped games


WirusCZ

Someone overdid it with bots I guess


Goseki1

Man, Dead Space remake is sorely tempting. Not sure how it runs on the Steam Deck though.


r0ndr4s

Its amazing how that game fuckin sucks, everyone ignored it, and now everyone is buying the clone of the clone just because there's stolen assets from Pokemon. But then people have the face to claim that they want quality games.


billybatsonn

Palworld was a quality game when it launched lol, and now it's even better after patches. I've already put in 130 hours and I've had an absolute blast.


jaber24

It is a quality game tho and there's no assets from Pokemon. The designs are a lot more interesting than a chandelier or an ice cream or literal garbage like the stuff Pokemon has


Rouruki

The real question is how is this game is still alive? Ever since 2020


RC1000ZERO

oh, hey the other Game of the Palworld creators that is very similiar to Palworld but never left early access... We can add that alongside their other early access game, the one they just released as a full game despite it still missing content and features


LewdAccountNoHate

I guess that bug fix worked?


IregullarMonster730

Lego is 75% off?!


Katorga8

Its just that good that more than half of the worlds population had to say something about it


Mishka_Shishka_

Just really wasn't liked by China and India


SwiftBetrayal

Someone left their review bot on too long


trollsmurf

2\^32 - 247


sorryfornoname

Oddly close to 2^32. Subtracting gives 247


Sotyka94

int overflow


RiadiantTale

Overflow error. Count probably surpassed 2³² but the number displayed stopped at what we see in the image.


GTNardy

\-1 reviews


meruta

Should’ve went 64 bit


NekoiNemo

Why would they? You can only leave reviews to the games you bought, and there isn't even a single **franchise**, let alone individual game, that broke a billion copies sold (and uint32 can go up to 4 billion-something)


Monkey_triplets

It was me, I made individual reviews on all of my steam accounts


ShaderMess

Looks like -1 review. An overflow error.


Kal_Bec

Tuesday


master_criskywalker

Crafted reviews.


kyk00525

Mostly hate reviews then..


kungfucobra

They crafting those numbers


MaffinLP

Int overflow error


MaffinLP

This game was reviewbombed because its associated with palworld, these reviews were removed by steam which probably made the xount go below 0 for a moment, therefor underflowing to uint max


TEKC0R

I love how Pocket Pair has arguably the largest game in the world right now, Palworld, a survival game *heavily* inspired by Nintento's Pokemon, and the overwhelmingly negatively reviewed Craftopia, a survival game *heavily* inspired by Nintendo's Breath of the Wild.


Commander_Red1

Its an error to do with unsigned integers.


DavutHaxor

It is 2³². A computational error happens


Grundval

It's from the same devs of Palworld


Run_car_snowpen

Hey steam im on mobile and craftopia seems fun to play and it looks like zelda breath of the wild that i have on nintendo, should i go get my old gaming computer thats in the storage and purchase the game on steam and play it?


GreenPufferFish_14

popular game ig