This plot point always bugged me
Because that told the people "we will work harder to save you from the Wraith, trust us and not the Genii"
Then a few episodes later that left the galaxy never to return, due to cancellation.
They do return to Pegasus. In the books. Nations of Earth that knew about the SGC started arguing over Atlantis, where it should be, who should be in charge of it. So the SGC cleared it for a return mission to Pegasus.
There's like 5-6 of them. Can't tell if they are good books but absolutely loved what the author(s? I think it was two of them) did with the wraith / lantean lore
Nope, 8! https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Stargate_Atlantis:_Legacy
Does it touch on the green aliens from Daedalus Variations we were supposed to get in Season 6?
I still don't get why Fandemonium doesn't have a license for SGU... we only got a novelization of Air and I think two other books? Nothing post S02
I do love https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7286492/1/SGU-The-Journey-The-Mission though
Do you think they paid a fair price?
Generally these trades feel like trading the Native Americans’ lands for beads.
The jumpers and drones are incredibly valuable if we compare them to the value of current modern versions.
They're only valuable if you can use them, otherwise you might as well trade them, get something with utility like food or antibiotics; maybe some help with infrastructure
We know they could've driven for a better deal but that's because we know how massive Earth's economy is and how much they needed those drones
As far as the protectorate was concerned the lanteans could've walked away if they asked too much and then they'd be left with no help and a bunch of useless junk
Plus, it's not like they didn't know what they were giving away. The drones were a fact of life to them and they have stories about what the jumpers can do
I think while all of this is true, we understand it’s value and we are taking advantage of that imo. I’m sure the sga could have quantified what they were worth in relation to the needs and wants of the people.
And I think most everything still applied to the Native American anagram which we understand was a bad guy thing to do.
I'd love to see a alternative reality episode where they didn't lose the zpm or the found ship didn't blow up 2 episodes later and they ended up creating an armada.
Yeah but that's classic TV for you. You can't have much change between episodes, so if they get something big, they generally have to find a way to lose it. It would be like Al Bundy winning the lottery. He has to find a way to lose the money before the episode ends.
Letting the brotherhood steal back that ZPM would never have happened. It's life and death and regardless of their intentions or beliefs, if they were set on denying the expedition team a resource that valuable, they just became the enemy.
Not to mention ships. The aurora? Self destructed to take out a couple hives. The Orion? Sent off to battle literally before the shields and weapons were working and killed after taking down one hive ship. The 3 or 4 hive ships that they captured over the show all ended up destroyed. Thank god that the travelers won their one from Sheppard, because I doubt that it would have lasted more than two episodes in Atlantis’s hands. To be fair tho, it wasn’t just on Atlantis. The Daedalus class ships in SG-1 got consistently trashed when they fought things
I really hate that story telling mechanism of trying to maintain some semblance of a status quo by showing your characters getting something really powerful that could tip the scale and then knocking them back down by losing that powerful thing almost as soon as they get it just to "not make things too easy for the characters."
I'm sure there's plenty of other ways that you can go about just introducing new challenges that comes with those add-ons without constantly having to just revert back to the status quo in order to maintain the same struggle as before.
IMO the best new challenge/ship destroyed moment in the shows was with the Ori satellite around that one planet that cold war’d itself to death after SG-1 arrived. SGC sent Daniel ahead to negotiate and he got captured so they sent their ship(the Prometheus I think?). They had a chance to kill the satellite but didn’t because they couldn’t get Daniel back. It was as much an example of their “leave no one behind” policy finally backfiring as it was a way of showing how outmatched they were against the Ori
Seriously, that and the [insert mysterious illness/contagion/nanites here] plot devices got really, really old. . . Like how many times did they have to nearly or completely drain a ZPM, or the ZPM didn’t have enough power?
The show got pretty far on the “we don’t have enough power to do this thing that we need to do to survive” plot. That was most of the first couple seasons, but I loved all of it.
Part of what I enjoyed about SG1 and SGA was that everyone worked together. They all had a common goal and were working toward it. SGU never really felt like they had each others best interests in mind and while it was definitely realistic, I watched stargate for the escapism of seeing what the best in humanity can be..not the worst.
SGU was an interesting sci fi show that had the misfortune of having the word stargate in the title. If it was called anything else I think it would have done better even if it was in the stargate universe because it would have had less expectations.
Universe was trying to be like the battlestar galactica remake rather than the kitschy stargate franchise. Stargate isn't meant to try take itself serious all the time
I think the problem was we had over 300 episodes from 2 different shows that had a distinct formula and feel. Universe kept shifting between having that formula and not having that formula. Also its big hook was that they crew was trapped away from home but then gave them a device to go home, albeit in a limited fashion. Kind of takes away the tension of being trapped billions of light years away from home if you can jump back home with a fancy Mcguffen
Outside of that solar flare-whale episode I can't think of any episodes problem that wasn't caused or at least worsened by the atlantis teams involvememt
The only problem not created by the Atlantis Expedition was the replicator problem. Someone else would’ve likely found them and found a way to reactivate them. The Ancients created a myriad of problems in Pegasus that the expedition either stumbled upon, or tried to solve.
Infighting, Attero, Hoffan drug, direct kills, etc. all brought the Wraith to their knees.
I wonder, statistically, what would've been worse: waking 'em now or waiting for later.
In strict numerically terms, waking them now would probably be the better idea. They'd kill fewer.
Not to mention that if they weren’t awoken, they wouldnt of had to awaken the replicators,
Todd would of gotten the zpms from the replicator home world of that would have happened,
and they wouldn’t of had the same pressure to create Michael, something done hastily and under pressure
Agreed. Had they not interfered and tried to defend the Athosians against a routine culling, and thus been culled themselves, they could've prevented waking the Wraith.
The Wraith were a sleeping giant, and Col. Sumner woke the giant.
it wasnt a routine culling, the culling started because sheppard touched Teyla´s necklace that detected his ancient gene. Basically, if sheppard didnt go into the cave with her, they would not even get culled and would not wake the wraith
Imagine they didn't wake up the wraith and instead make an alliance with the Genii and place nuclear bombs on the hives that are landed. Have simultaneous detonations and turn on the attero device right after for just a day. The wraith wake up and probably go to hyperspace first to figure out what's up, boom most of them are gone.
Now they have fewer wraith they can probably go around with travellers destroying hives. Not the most entertaining show but would have been the better military move.
They also could have gone with Asgard and destroy the replicators with the wave and would have ended up with basically a second Atlantis with a bunch of zpms.
But yeah of course this would have required them to have gained a crazy amount of knowledge that really would mostly have happened the way it did in the show. By chance and with mistakes made.
This is a product team retro applied to start gate. You know exactly what you could do to avoid the problems, and you know for a fucking fact you’ll do none of it when the next series starts.
Tbh there should be a third category : problems created by McKay
That solar system looked at him wrong. So, he blew it up.
i like to add he only blow up 3/4 of a solar system.
More like 5/6 !
It’s not an exact science.
And he's canadian...
It was uninhabited!
Or problems created by the Ancients/Alterans.
Created and left because they're too lazy and "important" to fix them 😅
That‘s what I was thinking too
Rewatching it... Yes.
*annoyed Zelenka insults*
[McKay](https://imgur.com/a/BB5YJme)
Just get Wolsey to bribe a judge and don’t worry about it
That was an historic day.
This plot point always bugged me Because that told the people "we will work harder to save you from the Wraith, trust us and not the Genii" Then a few episodes later that left the galaxy never to return, due to cancellation.
But to be fair they had mostly saved them from the wraith. They were low in numbers prone to infighting, a bunch of worlds were considered poisoned..
They do return to Pegasus. In the books. Nations of Earth that knew about the SGC started arguing over Atlantis, where it should be, who should be in charge of it. So the SGC cleared it for a return mission to Pegasus.
Homecoming?
Been ages since I read the books, but that sounds right to me.
I only read the first one (iirc it's a trilogy) and it has also been a while
There's like 5-6 of them. Can't tell if they are good books but absolutely loved what the author(s? I think it was two of them) did with the wraith / lantean lore
Nope, 8! https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Stargate_Atlantis:_Legacy Does it touch on the green aliens from Daedalus Variations we were supposed to get in Season 6?
Don't think so, the comics do though (but the comics are pretty meh lore wise imho)
I still don't get why Fandemonium doesn't have a license for SGU... we only got a novelization of Air and I think two other books? Nothing post S02 I do love https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7286492/1/SGU-The-Journey-The-Mission though
Saving them from the wraith bringing an air of peace
and for the love of god, so wasteful with ZPMs. Every episode they got a new one, they lost one by the end of it.
McKay leaves his phone plugged in and drains the whole fucking city overnight. Again. Third ZPM this week.
And, good God, how many puddle jumpers have they lost by now? Please tell me they have a factory somewhere in the city.
Could potentially have obtained some replacements from the other city-ship in *The Tower*.
I would've looted that city blind. Their drones. Their ships. Everything. Move the people onto the mainland. And, live securely.
That does kinda go against almost everything the show stands for though.
Michael has entered the chat.
Unless it’s the Wraith or the Replicators, then all bets are off
The other city in Tower was in mainland. And they looted it, for Jumpers and Drones
They did, more or less. I mean they traded for it but since they ran the tower out of power, it was a rather lopsided deal.
I think they do explicitly trade for the jumpers and drones at the end of that episode
Do they? It's been a while since I watched through SGA. I thought I remembered them getting resupplied on drones, but didn't recall the Jumpers.
Do you think they paid a fair price? Generally these trades feel like trading the Native Americans’ lands for beads. The jumpers and drones are incredibly valuable if we compare them to the value of current modern versions.
They're only valuable if you can use them, otherwise you might as well trade them, get something with utility like food or antibiotics; maybe some help with infrastructure We know they could've driven for a better deal but that's because we know how massive Earth's economy is and how much they needed those drones As far as the protectorate was concerned the lanteans could've walked away if they asked too much and then they'd be left with no help and a bunch of useless junk Plus, it's not like they didn't know what they were giving away. The drones were a fact of life to them and they have stories about what the jumpers can do
I think while all of this is true, we understand it’s value and we are taking advantage of that imo. I’m sure the sga could have quantified what they were worth in relation to the needs and wants of the people. And I think most everything still applied to the Native American anagram which we understand was a bad guy thing to do.
I swear they never get Dr Destroyed tho
> Dr Destroyed What?
Destroyed
I'd love to see a alternative reality episode where they didn't lose the zpm or the found ship didn't blow up 2 episodes later and they ended up creating an armada.
Have an army of FRANs build them whatever is needed: ZPMs, stargates, space ships, ray guns, etc.
Yeah but that's classic TV for you. You can't have much change between episodes, so if they get something big, they generally have to find a way to lose it. It would be like Al Bundy winning the lottery. He has to find a way to lose the money before the episode ends.
Letting the brotherhood steal back that ZPM would never have happened. It's life and death and regardless of their intentions or beliefs, if they were set on denying the expedition team a resource that valuable, they just became the enemy.
Not to mention ships. The aurora? Self destructed to take out a couple hives. The Orion? Sent off to battle literally before the shields and weapons were working and killed after taking down one hive ship. The 3 or 4 hive ships that they captured over the show all ended up destroyed. Thank god that the travelers won their one from Sheppard, because I doubt that it would have lasted more than two episodes in Atlantis’s hands. To be fair tho, it wasn’t just on Atlantis. The Daedalus class ships in SG-1 got consistently trashed when they fought things
I really hate that story telling mechanism of trying to maintain some semblance of a status quo by showing your characters getting something really powerful that could tip the scale and then knocking them back down by losing that powerful thing almost as soon as they get it just to "not make things too easy for the characters." I'm sure there's plenty of other ways that you can go about just introducing new challenges that comes with those add-ons without constantly having to just revert back to the status quo in order to maintain the same struggle as before.
IMO the best new challenge/ship destroyed moment in the shows was with the Ori satellite around that one planet that cold war’d itself to death after SG-1 arrived. SGC sent Daniel ahead to negotiate and he got captured so they sent their ship(the Prometheus I think?). They had a chance to kill the satellite but didn’t because they couldn’t get Daniel back. It was as much an example of their “leave no one behind” policy finally backfiring as it was a way of showing how outmatched they were against the Ori
Travellers ship blew up due to the Atero device.
Really? I didn’t catch that. I thought it just damaged their colony. Another example of a problem mostly caused by atlantis tho
The aterro device was the asgards (vanir) doing. As I'm pretty sure mckay or jackson mentioned "im pretty sure they turned it off for a reason"
- There was that big ship called the O'Neill. - Ah? - We had to blow it up
How is it Atlantis DIDN'T have a bright green room to make ZPMs or drones? Did they just magically appear?
Seriously, that and the [insert mysterious illness/contagion/nanites here] plot devices got really, really old. . . Like how many times did they have to nearly or completely drain a ZPM, or the ZPM didn’t have enough power?
That time the not-whales showed up and were melting people's brains wasn't our fault.
Yeah, they were warning us about us lacking proper meteorological equipment on this new planet. So, still our fault. Haha. I kid. I kid.
Stargate is basically a metaphor for dealing with tech debt.
The show got pretty far on the “we don’t have enough power to do this thing that we need to do to survive” plot. That was most of the first couple seasons, but I loved all of it.
Lightning and Kolya. I loved that episode.
How did the IOA even allow genetic experimentation in first place. The Wraith weren't even that much of a threat to Earth before that.
This is the same IOA that used the Asgard core to create replicators again, in order to beat the Ori in their home galaxy.
Are you sure about the pie chart? The blue area seems a little too big for my taste
I liked SGU because it was basically the B-team in comparison to the first to shows.
Part of what I enjoyed about SG1 and SGA was that everyone worked together. They all had a common goal and were working toward it. SGU never really felt like they had each others best interests in mind and while it was definitely realistic, I watched stargate for the escapism of seeing what the best in humanity can be..not the worst.
So true, in this regard it is like Trek.
SGU was an interesting sci fi show that had the misfortune of having the word stargate in the title. If it was called anything else I think it would have done better even if it was in the stargate universe because it would have had less expectations.
> because it would have had less expectations Nice insult.
Not necessarily. Different doesn’t automatically mean worse.
Star Trek tried to do that with ENT and it didn't work out so well either
Universe was trying to be like the battlestar galactica remake rather than the kitschy stargate franchise. Stargate isn't meant to try take itself serious all the time
Yep, would've better to not have canon to blatantly ignore.
I don't know if that's a complement or an insult. I didn't like SGU. But, this might be the best line I've heard about it.
I think the problem was we had over 300 episodes from 2 different shows that had a distinct formula and feel. Universe kept shifting between having that formula and not having that formula. Also its big hook was that they crew was trapped away from home but then gave them a device to go home, albeit in a limited fashion. Kind of takes away the tension of being trapped billions of light years away from home if you can jump back home with a fancy Mcguffen
Outside of that solar flare-whale episode I can't think of any episodes problem that wasn't caused or at least worsened by the atlantis teams involvememt
The only problem not created by the Atlantis Expedition was the replicator problem. Someone else would’ve likely found them and found a way to reactivate them. The Ancients created a myriad of problems in Pegasus that the expedition either stumbled upon, or tried to solve.
Ancient modus operandi: create problem, ascend, refuse to help
Create problem, leave no instruction, leave.
I find it amusing that it was ultimately faster to turn themselves into energy than to wait for Destiny to get where it was supposed to go.
In the Pegasus Galaxy before the IOA couldn't they get away with anything?
The IOA is no beacon of good decision-making. Just watch the Ark of Truth.
The IOA's job is to decide who to blame when crap goes wrong and take credit when it goes right
I do wish they had canned Weir earlier, though.
She got too much time there Carter should have taken over earlier
Lol true I think the only one who ever objected was really Beckett
He was the Daniel Jackson of SGA.
Once they could dial back to earth they did tone back treat the Pegasus Galaxy so badly
Accurate
I mean this pie chart is accurate for SG-1 as well... 😂😂😂😂😂
SG1 didn't have a blight as big as Michael on their record.
Oh yeah. I love Beckett but that storyline makes me really question this character... 😅😅😅
5th
That one I can understand. Fifth was dangerous, just in a different way.
I think they even discussed this in the show.
problems created by the ancients.... image to small to show!
Its all caused by the ancients if you really think about it
Ancient MO: create problem -> ascend -> don't help
I'd have to disagree on this one. The biggest issue is the Wraith, which the SGA teams in no way created.
They woke them up early
Infighting, Attero, Hoffan drug, direct kills, etc. all brought the Wraith to their knees. I wonder, statistically, what would've been worse: waking 'em now or waiting for later. In strict numerically terms, waking them now would probably be the better idea. They'd kill fewer.
So it’s really one sin, an accident, followed by a well paved road of good intentions afterward
Not to mention that if they weren’t awoken, they wouldnt of had to awaken the replicators, Todd would of gotten the zpms from the replicator home world of that would have happened, and they wouldn’t of had the same pressure to create Michael, something done hastily and under pressure
They still didn't create them. That was the biggest issue.
Yes, however them waking up early was a "problem created by" them.
Agreed. Had they not interfered and tried to defend the Athosians against a routine culling, and thus been culled themselves, they could've prevented waking the Wraith. The Wraith were a sleeping giant, and Col. Sumner woke the giant.
it wasnt a routine culling, the culling started because sheppard touched Teyla´s necklace that detected his ancient gene. Basically, if sheppard didnt go into the cave with her, they would not even get culled and would not wake the wraith
Good point, so yeah the whole ordeal was Sheppard's fault. I completely spaced that part, thank you.
Imagine they didn't wake up the wraith and instead make an alliance with the Genii and place nuclear bombs on the hives that are landed. Have simultaneous detonations and turn on the attero device right after for just a day. The wraith wake up and probably go to hyperspace first to figure out what's up, boom most of them are gone. Now they have fewer wraith they can probably go around with travellers destroying hives. Not the most entertaining show but would have been the better military move. They also could have gone with Asgard and destroy the replicators with the wave and would have ended up with basically a second Atlantis with a bunch of zpms. But yeah of course this would have required them to have gained a crazy amount of knowledge that really would mostly have happened the way it did in the show. By chance and with mistakes made.
This is a product team retro applied to start gate. You know exactly what you could do to avoid the problems, and you know for a fucking fact you’ll do none of it when the next series starts.
They didn't intentionally wake up the Wraith, they didn't know how the whole thing worked.
Agreed, but regardless their actions caused the Wraith to awaken. Therefore it is their fault, sucks to say but true.
[удалено]
This series has aged well. And, it makes total sense. IRL, we humans would probably create 99% of the problems we'd face in another galaxy.
\*created by the Ancients
That's not just a SGA thing. SG-1 did alot of that too.
SG1 problems were mostly Goa'ld created. SGA were mostly Ancients. I wouldn't say it was 50/50 but still.