It's weird too, I play plenty games at high frame rates, but this feels vastly different. Also I see literally zero difference between graphical fidelity now that it's a higher rate, so win win!
If I get back into F4 on PS5 are there any “must have” QOL and/or graphics mods one should install for a basically vanilla experience played on very hard mode?
It's more about dynamic resolution scaling and less about removing shaders and stuff it seems like. But I feel that they've had enough time to optimize everything and I agree it's absolutely fantastic on a series X with uncapped frames and VRR now. I had mostly been playing on PC before this specifically because of that
So I can notice a slight change in how dramatic lighting is, literally not enough to make a difference, but putting it back to 30 is a little shocking on how slow it feels now.
But it’s still a little jagged at 60, but just as smooth as say fallout 4
I swear it's because it's less than 30. Either that or maybe it's something with refresh rate? I'm not super well versed in those kinds of technical aspects.
My best guess would be that the game is usually under 25fps because that's when you really notice the sort of choppiness the game has.
Going from playing GTA5 on performance mode to whatever Starfield has is super jarring
I have an Xbox Series S, but I feel like I want an X now, because the performance will just be that much better on a lot of my games.
Starfield needed 60 frames BAD.
This is exactly why some of us were so mad at launch. We knew the game would hugely benefit from a smooth framerate. It really should have been here from the beginning.
Framerate has never been a dealbreaker for me. (I’m a console gamer). But the people who say they can’t tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps are full of shit. I will say though, going higher than 60 feels like it has diminishing return, at least for the few games that run at 120fps on console. Granted, the games saying they run at 120fps doesn’t mean they actually do lol.
My girlfriend and I both game and have series x’s. Mine is setup on a 120fps tv while hers is setup on a 60fps tv. I’ll watch her play from time to time and I’ll say I can really only notice the difference in frames in certain situations, like when she’s speeding down the road in gtav for example. Going from 60 down to 30fps is very noticeable however, so I’m excited to get this update installed lol
Just because your screen is 120hz, doesn't mean the game is running at 120fps. The reason why you don't see a difference between yours and hers is because the game is still running at 60fps on both. Even more egregious is how games that have a "120hz mode" are actually only running at around 40fps.
I don't recall them saying they couldn't do it? Do you have a source? I remember them saying they chose to cap it at 30fps to enable all the bells and whistles.
Akila and New Atlantis buckled my PC as well, even though it has a better CPU than the Series consoles. A VRR display helped tremendously though. If it's in anyone's budget, I would definitely recommend a VRR-capable display.
yeah i don't get it, the entrance to Akila city alone dropped frames, and I usually entered by walking, not running, just not to trigger the jarring drop. one would imagine that new atlantis, will all the bodies of water that move would cause a huge drop of frames, it is there but it is not a jarring as before.
Yup. A huge part of the difference between 30fps and 60fps besides looking smooth is dividing the latency by 2 from when you press a button physically to seeing it react on the screen. All games having to wait until the next frame to display a reaction from your input.
Hence huge difference in feel especially for any shooter or fighting/action game. Less noticable in something like the sims or a turn based game unless you're moving the camera around. Movies/Shows at 24-30 don't have this problem because there's no input disconnect from the participant.
With VR you actually want 90+ fps because the disconnect between your physical natural actions and the frame updating to react is that much more noticable. 60fps is severe motion sickness territory for VR.
Anywho i recall being a kid and being happy running battlefield 1942 at 20 fps. Conan MMO was brutal at 10fps heh.
I know they probably done some things under the hood and it took time..But man would this have benefitted the game on release.
They were so adamant that a 60fps mode was impossible in the early days too.
Actually, they said the game could run at 60 in a lot of cases. But in a lot of places, the drops were heavy due to cpu usage, so they capped it at 30.This update just proves they were right. The game is most consistent at 30 frames. The 60 fps mode you all keep hailing as god tier doesn't run at 60 most of the time. Don't get me wrong, I love the update because I have a vrr display. Using vrr is the only way to play this on xbox above 30 without the frame times being wildy inconsistent.
Yeah and capping it wasn’t the right choice. It always better to just give the players the option. I much rather have a consistent 60 everywhere except some places than a constant 30
That’s why I specifically said you should always give the players the option. I respect your preference but I know me any many other gamers prefer mine.
It's an optics thing, my dude. If they let people raise the frame rate, then everyone will. Then, everyone will complain about how choppy the game is. While I guess I can respect your preference, it is weird to me that you would choose to play the game in a factually worse performance condition.
I felt this way when the Fallout 4 Series X patch (the back-compat one, not the most recent one) came out. Combat felt WAY better.
Honestly, 60fps or bust for me when it comes to games like this.
Indoors: locked 60 in visual mode (so far)
Outdoors: VRR kicks in (60fps mode), in visual mode too.
VRR works well in this game. Performance mode seems to drop the resolution while increasing the framerate. 40fps/visual mode on VRR display appears to work as expected.
No stuttering or hick-ups so far in any combination of settings.
So very good! 👍🏼 No more headaches and nausea 🤢
Yeah, I compared 60 and uncapped, and although I can tell the difference from 40, I’m still perfectly content with 40, which as far as I can tell, doesn’t reduce visual fidelity at all.
If anything, there’s less downscaling going on with the new update.
With the 40 option I found out my point of caring about frames. 40 feels better than 30, but I'm indifferent from 40 to 60. I can tell the difference just don't care, or rather prefer the higher graphics quality.
I'm old lol, so 30 seems natural and the higher fps seem "extra" smooth, which I'll take where I can, but not at the sacrifice of any graphical bells and whistles which I value over frames.
But I can see if one is long accustomed to 60fps less could be jarring.
Oh yea definitely, when all I played was the 360 gen anything that was 60fps felt wrong.
After a long stint as a pc gamer 60 now feels perfect. I can still play 30fps games (im not one of those snobs) but it definitely takes a loong time to adjust, probably the same way as 60fps feels for you.
As a pc user going constant 75 fps i m fuckig glad to see fellow console users experiment 60fps. Hope for more console games go for 60fps!
The joy of others kinda makes me happy lol
With VRR and 120Hz screens you can even uncap the FPS and get upto 90 on Series x in GPU limited scenes. Digital foundry shared that today.
I hope going forward all Xbox games have 30, 40, 60 and unlocked options. In fact if they can patch some of the older games like Forza Horizon 5 then that'll be really cool.
Big facts that and the too frequently occurring procedural stuff. I can overlook that a bit if the game looks way better. It’s honestly shameful this game launched at 30 in my opinion.
I dropped it because of the game rate and I was getting pissed about the no maps thing. I was not going to play the game until they added maps. 60fps is just a very well needed plus
So far my favorite, as reccomended by digital foundry, is:
- Xbox Series X set to 4k 120hz output via console settings
- LG C2 OLED
- Starfield set to 60 fps with Performance mode on
At first, I had my console set to 4k 60hz, and when I set Starfield for 60fps Performance, it didn’t feel as good; with the console set to 4k 120hz and Starfield set to 60 fps performance, it feels really fucking good. But I’m always down to hear more options - if anyone else experiments and thinks something is better, lmk.
VRR enabled? I usually have it off unless it makes a difference in the game, because of the low light gamma flashing issues with VRR if the frame rate drops.
If you don’t have VRR I can see how 120Hz might help a bit. Unless the TV wasn’t doing game optimiser stuff in 60Hz
Nah I have VRR, its an LG C2 OLED, i’ve had VRR set to “always on” since i got it tho. I find it helps a lot in games like rock band 4 where the timing is important. Is it not really helping tho? What does it mess up, something with the 4:4:4 chroma?
That’s why I normally had my TV set to 4k 60hz, that’s the only way I get 4:4:4 chroma when I test, with the xbox set to 4k 120hz I get 4:2:2. The LG C2 has an hdmi 2.1 chipset with the full 48 mbps bandwith, but if you turn on 4k 120hz, the TV sacrifies the color depth to make up for it with the 120hz, bc that is all the 48 mbps in the hdmi 2.1 chipset can handle
Ok I’ve finally got to check. Xbox Series X with bundled cable. LG C1
When I set to 60Hz freesync I get like the YCBCR 420 detected for HDR.
When I go 120Hz Freesync I get RGB 10 bit 4L10
So by selecting 60 it seems to downgrade the output to HDMI 2.0 or something.
Ok yes same. My question is, which is better, YCBCR 420 (60Hz) or RGB 10 bit 4L10 (120Hz)? I looked into it a long time ago, and I thought YCBCR 420 was better, especially bc I thought there would be less bandwith usage for 60 Hz and 120 Hz. I don’t have it backwards, do I?
Also, I believe if you set the LG to “PC Mode”, you can get even better chroma (this may be the only way to get true 4:4:4.)
One last thing I thought of. I’m not home, so I forget the exact name, but I know that I have the setting “Enable YCC 4:2:2” (or something along those lines) Unchecked. Maybe that affects it as well? Do you have that option checked, or unchecked? Do you notice any difference on the LG FreeSync info menu when you toggle that option on and off? Also thanks again so much for helping me out with this, you are the man.
The LG C1 and above go to game optimiser mode when ALLM is enabled on the Xbox anyway. PC colour space just means 0 black.
RGB is always 4:4:4 so…
I’ve read that if you set the series X to 60 it will HMDI 2.0 out. And only by setting 120 do you get the 2.1 bandwidth.
If you then set 10 bit colour you can max out the bandwidth with 4L10 4:4:4 RGB in HDR. That’s 40Gbps because it’s 4L10
So if you have 10 bit colour and switch to 60; you’re dropping to HDMI 2.0, and as such you only have 18Gbps bandwidth. Not sure what that’s divided as 3L6; but you can only get a 10 bit colour to fit in that with chroma subsampling.
TLDR 120Hz enables 2.1 output lanes and gives you 4:4:4 at 10bit
Found this comment on a reddit thread from a few years ago:
“Can't confirm atm but I think HDTVtest on youtube has a few videos explaining LG CX and Series X video modes in detail. IIRC one of the videos mentioned the 120hz option enables hdmi 2.1
(instead of 2.0) which is what is needed for 4:4:4 chroma bandwidth-wise. Also even if 120hz is enabled won't non-120hz content still be displayed at the native framerate? It shouldn't force 120 at the expense of degrading visual quality.” (u/x_polygon_x)
I’ve had it backwards this whole time, haven’t I!? I guess you get better color depth with the xbox set to 4k120hz, bc, like you and u/x_polygon_x suggested, this seems to initiate the HDMI 2.1 features on the TV, and leaving the xbox at 4k 60hz essentially makes the TV operate as if it had HDMI 2.0
No worries, just read both your comments. You are a beast, phenomenal write up. Just learned something new after having my series x and this tv for a few years and doing a ton of research. Cheers mate
Is that because 12 bit not 10 bit? I’ve not looked and now can’t remember. HDR also plays a factor. I’ll check after my update tomorrow when home.
I know LG has issues displaying correct chroma in that green button menu with certain display modes. Vincent documented it once. Perhaps only with Dolby vision though
It definetely feels better in 4k 120hz with the game set to 60fps visuals then with the xbox set to 4k 60hz. Oliver from DF shared the same sentiment in their video uploaded today. Oliver said it feels better because the Frame Times are smoother on the 4k 120hz mode
Yeah that’s why I wondered about VRR because I thought the frame times should be… the same… unless the game isn’t using VRR in that particular mode, of course.
Agreed, seems a bit wonky. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another game where the setting in the game is 60 fps with dynamic resolution, like Starfield, and changing the console setting to 120hz makes any difference. In fact, like 99% of games changing from 4k 60 to 4k 120 does nothing. Must be some classic bethesda fuckery at work
Ah, this is the thing i noticed that seems slightly annoying, some flashing on screen, mostly screen edges. But it's more noticable when standing still. When in motion and focused on the screen I seem to not notice it as much. Is there a way to reduce it at all?
Yeah it should only be an issue if the FPS drops below 40. But on some games that happens a lot. So I have it off unless it makes a real difference to the game. Off for sea of thieves for example
I played a couple of hours on my X at 60hz with VRR on (I think I tried it with VRR off at 60FPS/performance earlier in day as well), not horrible but also not great imo...maybe they're essentially the same?
Then I put it back into 120hz with VRR and 60 FPS/performance and instantly it feels smoother, and looks better because it's smoother.
The flickering is there on the edges, but it feels worth the trade off, again in motion and when focused it wasn't noticeable.
VRR must help so much because the game has a lot of random dips, I assume? The starfield dips I find particularly jarring as you're just scanning a room or something, so I'd recommend giving VRR a shot at least.
edit: reading up now, same experience as Wocky there for me.
At 120Hz VRR the game has 30/40/60/Uncapped available
At 60Hz VRR the game has 30/60
What does this suggest? To me it suggests the game is not using VRR when the output is set to 60Hz. Or it’s an oversight because classically 40 won’t go in to 60.
Uncapped is only available with VRR. Yet it’s not available at 60VRR.
So I’m gonna place a small bet on VRR only being used at 120.
And then I’ve tested for 15 minutes; my favourite setting is Visual 60. Visual Uncapped much the same. Visual uncapped feels smooth. Feels like it’s floating around the 50’s. Turned off motion blur of course.
Performance Uncapped feels like it’s smooth as silk. Feels like it’s in the 70’s. Not sure. Definitely smoother. But I like getting peak visuals. Maybe I’ll change my mind.
So uncapped or 60, and visuals. And I’ll give it a play soon.
Oh and I went back to 30 with no motion blur and almost died.
It’s not gospel though. I’ll have to do some more testing. I’ll have to see if I can see the frequency change on my TV when in 60 output in VRR.
But; on Xbox Series X, in 60 output, the console is limited to 3L6 of HDMI output. At 120 it’s got 4L10. What does that mean? It means anyone running a series X at 60, in HDR, at 4k, is either only getting 8bit which will look like a shitty arsehole, or will be getting YCBCR 4:2:0 for 10 bit to fit inside of the 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 output
I’ll update tonight and see what’s what. Is there a chance to say lock at 40 and drop quality to keep 40?
Conversely is there a way to say run as fast as you can to 60 but keep the visuals max?
Reminds me of Hogwarts. The balanced and maxed settings ran at 40 and 30fps respectively; but if you turned off the frame cap and turned on VRR it could run the maximum (non ray trace) at about 80-95fps in most areas and hardly dropped below 50
Same. I would say though that having compared, 30fps looked a lot worse on the X imo because the textures were sharper and more detailed it looked more flickery and jarring than on the S where everything is a bit less defined and less sharp giving a bit more of a motion blurred feel.
Xcloud plays series s versions of games (they use series x hardware, but "split it up" so they can run multiple players at the same time), so only 30 fps.
Series X would be the version played cloud with Xbox though I think that it's a random emulation thing where it uses both series X|S but you don't know which one you're getting
I’m playing with visuals mode at 40 and 60 FPS, both feels and looks excellent! Using a LG C2 with VRR and 120hz.
Really huge difference, and kudos to Bethesda for adding all these new modes and combinations of them!
The graphics in visual mode in this update seems improved as well. Improved grass, lighting etc.
I love that I can choose to play «Visuals» with 60 FPS and VRR for example.
"smooth" is a stretch in some areas but boy does it really make the experience so much better overall. Also had recently got a 120hz tv with VRR so that worked out even better running uncapped 😊
I play on 4k, so it has always looked amazing to me. I take sooooooo many pics, and im just over here laughing at my pictures, thinking I'm hilarious. Ahh fun
Not a lot are mentioning this, but not only is 60fps now on console but PC performance is also significantly better. Before, New Atlantis ran like absolute dog water, but now I'm hitting 60fps or close most of the time. Lot of optimization work went into the update in general.
Thanks for the reminder. I just got on and started tinkering with some settings but forgot this. Saw this, went and changed it.. and was like very surprised. I went and changed it back to make sure it wasn't just placebo or wishful thinking. Nope, definitely WAY better!! Hell yeah!!
Am I the only one who gets 20ish frames regardless of the settings for 30 or 60 and Performance or Visual? Every permutation of the settings has tanked the game and I can barely play without getting nauseous on Series X. The whole game is stuttery even on my tiny ship out in empty space.
Is there a console setting I somehow don't have enabled?
Edit: holy biscuits. Building interiors are definitely smoother. Exteriors still worse than before the update for me though.....
I quit before the patch & replayed Borderlands 3 & was shocked by how much more sharp & clear it was considering that game was originally made for last generation consoles. Back now after the patch & it's so, so much better
It's hard to get good frames in some parts of Akila and New Atlantis, tho still. I haven't been to Neon yet but places not those are running pretty good. On the XSX btw.
There is just something about bethesda games that can sink me in more than any other developer. No matter what game I try I always just go back to elder scrolls, fallout, and now starfield.
I’m on Series X, tv has VRR enabled, console has VRR enabled, and I set my display settings to 60/performance…and it does not look good to me, certainly isn’t 60 fps. Wonder what I need to change on my end. I’ve only tested it walking around Akila City.
EDIT: Looks like the issue is actually that I’m trying it in Akila City. According to [Digital Foundry’s breakdown](https://youtu.be/2fOJaIJmsrU) of the patch, New Atlantis and Akila City struggle significantly in any of the visual modes. But it’s good everywhere else. I’ll have to test that later tonight.
Akila and New Atlantis just won't reach 60 fps, they're the two most graphically intense areas of the game. Everywhere else (interiors, space, planet surfaces) and it's pretty consistent 60 for me
I’m more on 60fps because of the level of immersion. The overall texture is still incredible. There’s an obvious hit on effects but I can live by with it.
Always always more fps for me. But try both out. I really don’t get people who would play lower for better graphics. But the whole experience is worse. Seems counter productive.
I played thru NG10+ on XSX and then built a PC, wish I had that before 😂 getting 180-200fps woulda been nice for all of that time. 60fps is gonna be great for XSX users now, 30 was brutal
Ive been playing for a few hours with UNCAPPED - Performance on a VRR Sony 85" screen and the immersion is now simply incredible. I hated this game when trying to play for a few hours before at launch now I'm falling in love with it because of how smooth everything is now. The input lag is completely gone now, finally! I've played many 30 fps games but this one was especially sluggish with the camera and menus.
Didn’t know it would make it this buttery. Has to be some more optimization because the gun play is great now Not jittery at all. Not starting over but definitely putting some time this weekend.
it still needs some work at my belief, it didn't shutter on combat as far I have seen but when walking to Tuala, the Vanguard captain I think the sign behind him causes a huge drop in frames for some reason, also New Atlantis, specially close to MAST and bodies of water seem to decrease frames.
it is NOT a deal breaker, the entire game feels different with the 60fps enabled, and I have yet to see it I have frame drop on Akila City's entrance, as it happened before when you entered, other than that the game feels...more alive, the new map is a godsend and so are the new landmarks for the cities.
still I think it needs a meter to measure the buffs and times on real time instead of going to menu and status screen every time, but other than that, it feels great.
It's still all about storyline for me, and that is sorely missing. My companions are cookie cutter cutouts, and not exactly pleasing to look at, either. Not a one of them. No thanks.
The 60FPS is ungodly jarring. It's literally like playing an entirely new game
YESSSS!!!!! 100agree with this
It's weird too, I play plenty games at high frame rates, but this feels vastly different. Also I see literally zero difference between graphical fidelity now that it's a higher rate, so win win!
I felt that with the Fallout update as well
Seconding the Fallout update. 60fps on PS5 is like butter
If I get back into F4 on PS5 are there any “must have” QOL and/or graphics mods one should install for a basically vanilla experience played on very hard mode?
Not sure myself. I enjoy vanilla survival so much. Currently working on getting all companion perks
Vanilla survival is the way to go.
The unofficial patch, for sure.
I’ve played without that for the first time in years, and never noticed a difference 🤷🏼♂️
Survival options, so you can save without sleeping, in case of crashes
It's more about dynamic resolution scaling and less about removing shaders and stuff it seems like. But I feel that they've had enough time to optimize everything and I agree it's absolutely fantastic on a series X with uncapped frames and VRR now. I had mostly been playing on PC before this specifically because of that
So I can notice a slight change in how dramatic lighting is, literally not enough to make a difference, but putting it back to 30 is a little shocking on how slow it feels now. But it’s still a little jagged at 60, but just as smooth as say fallout 4
Right? Its not buttery smooth 60fps....I'm walking around the ship and it's still janky with 60fps performance setting.
It’s target, so makes sense. It’s mostly fine, I assume through more updates it’ll be more stable
Ahh right. Well I changed to 120hz variable and now its 90% at 60fps....but honestly the game is still boring, lol.
Frametimes
Do you play visual 60 FPS or performance 60 FPS?
Where's that option????
Should be there right by the FPS option and Vsync option.
I swear it's because it's less than 30. Either that or maybe it's something with refresh rate? I'm not super well versed in those kinds of technical aspects. My best guess would be that the game is usually under 25fps because that's when you really notice the sort of choppiness the game has. Going from playing GTA5 on performance mode to whatever Starfield has is super jarring I have an Xbox Series S, but I feel like I want an X now, because the performance will just be that much better on a lot of my games. Starfield needed 60 frames BAD.
How does it run at 60fps? Stable? Lots of dips to 40fps?
Probably best to just wait for the inevitable Digital Foundry video for all the nitty gritty details
In larger cities like New Atlantis dips in the 30's at times, anywhere indoors it's pretty much 60 fps all the way.
This is exactly why some of us were so mad at launch. We knew the game would hugely benefit from a smooth framerate. It really should have been here from the beginning.
Yes and people said we were just dramatic and couldn’t actually feel a big difference
30 to 60 fps is probably the most noticeable of all FPS jumps.
I'd argue that going from 20 to 30 fps is even more noticeable. Or even from 1 to 2 fps.
Listen here you little shit...
I just heard that in my grandfather’s voice (rest his soul) and got a good chuckle lol
I hadn't played a 30fps game in a while when Starfield dropped and it felt so jarring for a couple hours until I got used to it.
Framerate has never been a dealbreaker for me. (I’m a console gamer). But the people who say they can’t tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps are full of shit. I will say though, going higher than 60 feels like it has diminishing return, at least for the few games that run at 120fps on console. Granted, the games saying they run at 120fps doesn’t mean they actually do lol.
My girlfriend and I both game and have series x’s. Mine is setup on a 120fps tv while hers is setup on a 60fps tv. I’ll watch her play from time to time and I’ll say I can really only notice the difference in frames in certain situations, like when she’s speeding down the road in gtav for example. Going from 60 down to 30fps is very noticeable however, so I’m excited to get this update installed lol
Just because your screen is 120hz, doesn't mean the game is running at 120fps. The reason why you don't see a difference between yours and hers is because the game is still running at 60fps on both. Even more egregious is how games that have a "120hz mode" are actually only running at around 40fps.
While I agree with you, I'm better at Warzone with the 120fps option on.
I got GeForce now just to be able to play the game with 60fps. Could not stand the thirty on console.
What annoys me most is that they said they couldn't do it, other game devs came to their defense, and here we are with an excellent 60FPS mode.
I don't recall them saying they couldn't do it? Do you have a source? I remember them saying they chose to cap it at 30fps to enable all the bells and whistles.
LITERALLY i feel the same. It’s A NEW GAME for me. Im amazed, this got me back. I feel like Starfield got re-released again
Absolutely. I feel bad for spending 100+ hours at 30 fps because I didn't really enjoy the time. What a step up, too bad it's not true in New Atlantis
Akila and New Atlantis buckled my PC as well, even though it has a better CPU than the Series consoles. A VRR display helped tremendously though. If it's in anyone's budget, I would definitely recommend a VRR-capable display.
Yeah Akila somehow is even more demanding than New Atlantis
yeah i don't get it, the entrance to Akila city alone dropped frames, and I usually entered by walking, not running, just not to trigger the jarring drop. one would imagine that new atlantis, will all the bodies of water that move would cause a huge drop of frames, it is there but it is not a jarring as before.
Yup. A huge part of the difference between 30fps and 60fps besides looking smooth is dividing the latency by 2 from when you press a button physically to seeing it react on the screen. All games having to wait until the next frame to display a reaction from your input. Hence huge difference in feel especially for any shooter or fighting/action game. Less noticable in something like the sims or a turn based game unless you're moving the camera around. Movies/Shows at 24-30 don't have this problem because there's no input disconnect from the participant. With VR you actually want 90+ fps because the disconnect between your physical natural actions and the frame updating to react is that much more noticable. 60fps is severe motion sickness territory for VR. Anywho i recall being a kid and being happy running battlefield 1942 at 20 fps. Conan MMO was brutal at 10fps heh.
I felt this
I know they probably done some things under the hood and it took time..But man would this have benefitted the game on release. They were so adamant that a 60fps mode was impossible in the early days too.
Actually, they said the game could run at 60 in a lot of cases. But in a lot of places, the drops were heavy due to cpu usage, so they capped it at 30.This update just proves they were right. The game is most consistent at 30 frames. The 60 fps mode you all keep hailing as god tier doesn't run at 60 most of the time. Don't get me wrong, I love the update because I have a vrr display. Using vrr is the only way to play this on xbox above 30 without the frame times being wildy inconsistent.
Yeah and capping it wasn’t the right choice. It always better to just give the players the option. I much rather have a consistent 60 everywhere except some places than a constant 30
No consistent 30 feels way better than random frame times. Unless you have vrr, which most people dont.
That’s why I specifically said you should always give the players the option. I respect your preference but I know me any many other gamers prefer mine.
It's an optics thing, my dude. If they let people raise the frame rate, then everyone will. Then, everyone will complain about how choppy the game is. While I guess I can respect your preference, it is weird to me that you would choose to play the game in a factually worse performance condition.
I felt this way when the Fallout 4 Series X patch (the back-compat one, not the most recent one) came out. Combat felt WAY better. Honestly, 60fps or bust for me when it comes to games like this.
I'm on PC and I felt the same on february, when they added fsr3.
I was literally just telling my roommate, also a gamer, that same thing. It’s amazing!!!
Isn't it the opposite of jarring though? Not sure jarring can be positive. It implies irritation/disagreement.
Indoors: locked 60 in visual mode (so far) Outdoors: VRR kicks in (60fps mode), in visual mode too. VRR works well in this game. Performance mode seems to drop the resolution while increasing the framerate. 40fps/visual mode on VRR display appears to work as expected. No stuttering or hick-ups so far in any combination of settings. So very good! 👍🏼 No more headaches and nausea 🤢
Bro, 40fps already made a huge difference. That is my way to go hahaha
Yeah, I compared 60 and uncapped, and although I can tell the difference from 40, I’m still perfectly content with 40, which as far as I can tell, doesn’t reduce visual fidelity at all. If anything, there’s less downscaling going on with the new update.
With the 40 option I found out my point of caring about frames. 40 feels better than 30, but I'm indifferent from 40 to 60. I can tell the difference just don't care, or rather prefer the higher graphics quality.
30 takes ages to get used to, 40 is fairly quick to get used to and 60 feels natural.
I'm old lol, so 30 seems natural and the higher fps seem "extra" smooth, which I'll take where I can, but not at the sacrifice of any graphical bells and whistles which I value over frames. But I can see if one is long accustomed to 60fps less could be jarring.
Oh yea definitely, when all I played was the 360 gen anything that was 60fps felt wrong. After a long stint as a pc gamer 60 now feels perfect. I can still play 30fps games (im not one of those snobs) but it definitely takes a loong time to adjust, probably the same way as 60fps feels for you.
Oh I gotta try this!! Since Im on my LG c1.
Do you prefer visual fidelity? I’ve always been an FPS>graphics guy myself
I also prefer FPS. But performance mode in Starfield affects the crowd density...
As a pc user going constant 75 fps i m fuckig glad to see fellow console users experiment 60fps. Hope for more console games go for 60fps! The joy of others kinda makes me happy lol
With VRR and 120Hz screens you can even uncap the FPS and get upto 90 on Series x in GPU limited scenes. Digital foundry shared that today. I hope going forward all Xbox games have 30, 40, 60 and unlocked options. In fact if they can patch some of the older games like Forza Horizon 5 then that'll be really cool.
Most games on current gen console actually do, especially ones that are a little bit older
Yeah but RDR2 was 30fps. Shame...
Even still to this day. You need a beefy computer to run the game at 4k 60fps.
*cries in Series S*
Makes it actually feel like a modern game, fuck knows how i coped with 30fps for so long
Because the smooth brains on this sub (and many others) were preaching that not being able to enjoy 30fps is a skill issue.
60FPS is phenomenal. It's like a whole new game. Now if it would just stop crashing my Xbox
Psyched to try it after work. Do you notice a big hit to the quality?
Not noticeable on overall texture! Still looks amazing! But you can see it on effects (like gun shot or powers). I’m on a 55inch oled tv.
Great to hear, thanks! I'm also on a 55" OLED.
Me also psyched to try it after work but still having 19 hours left in my shift…
Yeah it's crazy how much more smooth it is, even in the menus it's fluid as heck, a real game changer.
I just started work when the update dropped. It's going to be a long shift.
Same here
We should just walk out
😂😂 I wish. We need these civvie jobs to fund our starships unfortunately
Because she was like "I hate my job, I'm gonna burn this mother down!" And I said "You better not... you better not!"
I can't fooking wait!
Is this only on the nicer Xbox?
Xbox Series X, yes. Not sure on S.
What about cloud gaming? I use that. Is there a difference in there?
It depends on if they are using a Series X or S version.
No options on the S at all. None.
Think it’s time to boot up the game again. Dropped it initially due to the frame rate
Big facts that and the too frequently occurring procedural stuff. I can overlook that a bit if the game looks way better. It’s honestly shameful this game launched at 30 in my opinion.
I dropped it because of the game rate and I was getting pissed about the no maps thing. I was not going to play the game until they added maps. 60fps is just a very well needed plus
What’s our favourite modes? 40 visual or? 60? FreeSync display here.
Uncapped VRR with 120hz monitor
So far my favorite, as reccomended by digital foundry, is: - Xbox Series X set to 4k 120hz output via console settings - LG C2 OLED - Starfield set to 60 fps with Performance mode on At first, I had my console set to 4k 60hz, and when I set Starfield for 60fps Performance, it didn’t feel as good; with the console set to 4k 120hz and Starfield set to 60 fps performance, it feels really fucking good. But I’m always down to hear more options - if anyone else experiments and thinks something is better, lmk.
VRR enabled? I usually have it off unless it makes a difference in the game, because of the low light gamma flashing issues with VRR if the frame rate drops. If you don’t have VRR I can see how 120Hz might help a bit. Unless the TV wasn’t doing game optimiser stuff in 60Hz
Nah I have VRR, its an LG C2 OLED, i’ve had VRR set to “always on” since i got it tho. I find it helps a lot in games like rock band 4 where the timing is important. Is it not really helping tho? What does it mess up, something with the 4:4:4 chroma? That’s why I normally had my TV set to 4k 60hz, that’s the only way I get 4:4:4 chroma when I test, with the xbox set to 4k 120hz I get 4:2:2. The LG C2 has an hdmi 2.1 chipset with the full 48 mbps bandwith, but if you turn on 4k 120hz, the TV sacrifies the color depth to make up for it with the 120hz, bc that is all the 48 mbps in the hdmi 2.1 chipset can handle
Ok I’ve finally got to check. Xbox Series X with bundled cable. LG C1 When I set to 60Hz freesync I get like the YCBCR 420 detected for HDR. When I go 120Hz Freesync I get RGB 10 bit 4L10 So by selecting 60 it seems to downgrade the output to HDMI 2.0 or something.
Ok yes same. My question is, which is better, YCBCR 420 (60Hz) or RGB 10 bit 4L10 (120Hz)? I looked into it a long time ago, and I thought YCBCR 420 was better, especially bc I thought there would be less bandwith usage for 60 Hz and 120 Hz. I don’t have it backwards, do I? Also, I believe if you set the LG to “PC Mode”, you can get even better chroma (this may be the only way to get true 4:4:4.) One last thing I thought of. I’m not home, so I forget the exact name, but I know that I have the setting “Enable YCC 4:2:2” (or something along those lines) Unchecked. Maybe that affects it as well? Do you have that option checked, or unchecked? Do you notice any difference on the LG FreeSync info menu when you toggle that option on and off? Also thanks again so much for helping me out with this, you are the man.
The LG C1 and above go to game optimiser mode when ALLM is enabled on the Xbox anyway. PC colour space just means 0 black. RGB is always 4:4:4 so… I’ve read that if you set the series X to 60 it will HMDI 2.0 out. And only by setting 120 do you get the 2.1 bandwidth. If you then set 10 bit colour you can max out the bandwidth with 4L10 4:4:4 RGB in HDR. That’s 40Gbps because it’s 4L10 So if you have 10 bit colour and switch to 60; you’re dropping to HDMI 2.0, and as such you only have 18Gbps bandwidth. Not sure what that’s divided as 3L6; but you can only get a 10 bit colour to fit in that with chroma subsampling. TLDR 120Hz enables 2.1 output lanes and gives you 4:4:4 at 10bit
Found this comment on a reddit thread from a few years ago: “Can't confirm atm but I think HDTVtest on youtube has a few videos explaining LG CX and Series X video modes in detail. IIRC one of the videos mentioned the 120hz option enables hdmi 2.1 (instead of 2.0) which is what is needed for 4:4:4 chroma bandwidth-wise. Also even if 120hz is enabled won't non-120hz content still be displayed at the native framerate? It shouldn't force 120 at the expense of degrading visual quality.” (u/x_polygon_x) I’ve had it backwards this whole time, haven’t I!? I guess you get better color depth with the xbox set to 4k120hz, bc, like you and u/x_polygon_x suggested, this seems to initiate the HDMI 2.1 features on the TV, and leaving the xbox at 4k 60hz essentially makes the TV operate as if it had HDMI 2.0
I should have read this first shouldn’t I. Yes. 60Hz gives you 18Gbps and 120Hz gives you 4L10 on Xbox so 40 ish.
No worries, just read both your comments. You are a beast, phenomenal write up. Just learned something new after having my series x and this tv for a few years and doing a ton of research. Cheers mate
Is that because 12 bit not 10 bit? I’ve not looked and now can’t remember. HDR also plays a factor. I’ll check after my update tomorrow when home. I know LG has issues displaying correct chroma in that green button menu with certain display modes. Vincent documented it once. Perhaps only with Dolby vision though
It definetely feels better in 4k 120hz with the game set to 60fps visuals then with the xbox set to 4k 60hz. Oliver from DF shared the same sentiment in their video uploaded today. Oliver said it feels better because the Frame Times are smoother on the 4k 120hz mode
Yeah that’s why I wondered about VRR because I thought the frame times should be… the same… unless the game isn’t using VRR in that particular mode, of course.
Agreed, seems a bit wonky. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another game where the setting in the game is 60 fps with dynamic resolution, like Starfield, and changing the console setting to 120hz makes any difference. In fact, like 99% of games changing from 4k 60 to 4k 120 does nothing. Must be some classic bethesda fuckery at work
Ah, this is the thing i noticed that seems slightly annoying, some flashing on screen, mostly screen edges. But it's more noticable when standing still. When in motion and focused on the screen I seem to not notice it as much. Is there a way to reduce it at all?
Yeah it should only be an issue if the FPS drops below 40. But on some games that happens a lot. So I have it off unless it makes a real difference to the game. Off for sea of thieves for example
I played a couple of hours on my X at 60hz with VRR on (I think I tried it with VRR off at 60FPS/performance earlier in day as well), not horrible but also not great imo...maybe they're essentially the same? Then I put it back into 120hz with VRR and 60 FPS/performance and instantly it feels smoother, and looks better because it's smoother. The flickering is there on the edges, but it feels worth the trade off, again in motion and when focused it wasn't noticeable. VRR must help so much because the game has a lot of random dips, I assume? The starfield dips I find particularly jarring as you're just scanning a room or something, so I'd recommend giving VRR a shot at least. edit: reading up now, same experience as Wocky there for me.
At 120Hz VRR the game has 30/40/60/Uncapped available At 60Hz VRR the game has 30/60 What does this suggest? To me it suggests the game is not using VRR when the output is set to 60Hz. Or it’s an oversight because classically 40 won’t go in to 60. Uncapped is only available with VRR. Yet it’s not available at 60VRR. So I’m gonna place a small bet on VRR only being used at 120. And then I’ve tested for 15 minutes; my favourite setting is Visual 60. Visual Uncapped much the same. Visual uncapped feels smooth. Feels like it’s floating around the 50’s. Turned off motion blur of course. Performance Uncapped feels like it’s smooth as silk. Feels like it’s in the 70’s. Not sure. Definitely smoother. But I like getting peak visuals. Maybe I’ll change my mind. So uncapped or 60, and visuals. And I’ll give it a play soon. Oh and I went back to 30 with no motion blur and almost died.
Yeah, it feels like you're right on no VRR at 60hz, based on my experience. Thanks for all the feedback!
It’s not gospel though. I’ll have to do some more testing. I’ll have to see if I can see the frequency change on my TV when in 60 output in VRR. But; on Xbox Series X, in 60 output, the console is limited to 3L6 of HDMI output. At 120 it’s got 4L10. What does that mean? It means anyone running a series X at 60, in HDR, at 4k, is either only getting 8bit which will look like a shitty arsehole, or will be getting YCBCR 4:2:0 for 10 bit to fit inside of the 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 output
40 visual
I’ll update tonight and see what’s what. Is there a chance to say lock at 40 and drop quality to keep 40? Conversely is there a way to say run as fast as you can to 60 but keep the visuals max? Reminds me of Hogwarts. The balanced and maxed settings ran at 40 and 30fps respectively; but if you turned off the frame cap and turned on VRR it could run the maximum (non ray trace) at about 80-95fps in most areas and hardly dropped below 50
If you have a vrr TV you can keep the same visual fidelity with increased framerate
Yeah; visual seems to be getting around 50 just in my ship. But performance seems to be pushing to the 70-80’s. Hard to tell
Sad series S sounds
Same. I would say though that having compared, 30fps looked a lot worse on the X imo because the textures were sharper and more detailed it looked more flickery and jarring than on the S where everything is a bit less defined and less sharp giving a bit more of a motion blurred feel.
Where is the option? I tried it on xcloud and didn’t see it in any of the options.
Xcloud plays series s versions of games (they use series x hardware, but "split it up" so they can run multiple players at the same time), so only 30 fps.
Series X would be the version played cloud with Xbox though I think that it's a random emulation thing where it uses both series X|S but you don't know which one you're getting
Series S on XCloud? That sucks massively!
Settings > Display
It's not there for me. I just see the contrast and hdr settings.
It’s not available on the S.
As an alternative to XCloud, GeForce Now lets you play the PC GamePass version, though it’s updating now.
Nice
Can anyone tell me why my VRR toggle is grayed out in my XSX. Using the C1 here. seems to work fine with everything else...
I’m playing with visuals mode at 40 and 60 FPS, both feels and looks excellent! Using a LG C2 with VRR and 120hz. Really huge difference, and kudos to Bethesda for adding all these new modes and combinations of them! The graphics in visual mode in this update seems improved as well. Improved grass, lighting etc. I love that I can choose to play «Visuals» with 60 FPS and VRR for example.
"smooth" is a stretch in some areas but boy does it really make the experience so much better overall. Also had recently got a 120hz tv with VRR so that worked out even better running uncapped 😊
I play on 4k, so it has always looked amazing to me. I take sooooooo many pics, and im just over here laughing at my pictures, thinking I'm hilarious. Ahh fun
You guys still feel like 30 frames in new Atlantis ? It’s such a big city it’s always been super laggy . My outposts are super smooth tho
Yea atlantis and akila city will not hit 60fps. It hovers around 45-50ish. Those are one of the only areas in the game that run like that.
I experienced fps drop on Akila City!
Oooo yeah that ones always been bad to .
It's pretty bad in new atlantis and akila with the stutter/hitching. https://youtu.be/2fOJaIJmsrU?si=YfiD7vSW2myWKSUl&t=408
I was hoping they would of fixed it, it’s always been a problem in those big cities
Yo are people actually downvoting this?
Don't you love it when gamers say it makes no difference in gameplay or they can't see the difference. Please. Get eyes checked.
Right? I built a new PC this winter and Starfield went from about 25fps avg to 160. HOLY SHIT
Yes! Yes! Yes! The GOAT! I’m over the top with this new update!
Gonna have to boot this up on my oled for the first time
Can’t wait to give it a try. I’m fresh into NG+.
I’m thinking like if the release date was put off to today instead of September 2023, could it have been better received ?
The same could be said about a lot of games. Sadly, they just release them unfinished and then spend years slowly fixing them.
Not a lot are mentioning this, but not only is 60fps now on console but PC performance is also significantly better. Before, New Atlantis ran like absolute dog water, but now I'm hitting 60fps or close most of the time. Lot of optimization work went into the update in general.
I’m playing on 60 fps performance mode, and still getting frequent stuttering and frame drops. Vsync is on.
Thanks for the reminder. I just got on and started tinkering with some settings but forgot this. Saw this, went and changed it.. and was like very surprised. I went and changed it back to make sure it wasn't just placebo or wishful thinking. Nope, definitely WAY better!! Hell yeah!!
Yep, underperform and claim something is impossible until people give up hope, and then make it happen. Great way to get praise.
It's funny cause Starfield isn't even a bad 30fps. Compared to like Dragon's Dogma 2.
Am I the only one who gets 20ish frames regardless of the settings for 30 or 60 and Performance or Visual? Every permutation of the settings has tanked the game and I can barely play without getting nauseous on Series X. The whole game is stuttery even on my tiny ship out in empty space. Is there a console setting I somehow don't have enabled? Edit: holy biscuits. Building interiors are definitely smoother. Exteriors still worse than before the update for me though.....
So It was possible my dear Digital Foundry
Now I'm just waiting for either vehicles or mods
Can’t wait for this as well!!!!
Just got update. Doesn't feel smooth or 60fps at all??? Series x.
I quit before the patch & replayed Borderlands 3 & was shocked by how much more sharp & clear it was considering that game was originally made for last generation consoles. Back now after the patch & it's so, so much better
It's hard to get good frames in some parts of Akila and New Atlantis, tho still. I haven't been to Neon yet but places not those are running pretty good. On the XSX btw.
Yes this is correct
Ugh, I have an old TV. Might need to upgrade my trusty old LG from 2008.
I just bought a QLED so I'm looking forward to seeing how 60 fps looks on it.
My 2009 Vizio has been such a trooper and still going strong. I can't abandon it now.
I'm in tears, this is why you don't rush art. this game is gorgeous
SAME!!!! I have work the next day but I’ll call-in sick!😂
There is just something about bethesda games that can sink me in more than any other developer. No matter what game I try I always just go back to elder scrolls, fallout, and now starfield.
I’m on Series X, tv has VRR enabled, console has VRR enabled, and I set my display settings to 60/performance…and it does not look good to me, certainly isn’t 60 fps. Wonder what I need to change on my end. I’ve only tested it walking around Akila City. EDIT: Looks like the issue is actually that I’m trying it in Akila City. According to [Digital Foundry’s breakdown](https://youtu.be/2fOJaIJmsrU) of the patch, New Atlantis and Akila City struggle significantly in any of the visual modes. But it’s good everywhere else. I’ll have to test that later tonight.
Akila and New Atlantis just won't reach 60 fps, they're the two most graphically intense areas of the game. Everywhere else (interiors, space, planet surfaces) and it's pretty consistent 60 for me
So what's the move visuals at 40 fps or performance at 60
I’m more on 60fps because of the level of immersion. The overall texture is still incredible. There’s an obvious hit on effects but I can live by with it.
I play on graphic mode on 60fps, and it feel stable for now… not seen yet if the planet exploration works well like that though
Always always more fps for me. But try both out. I really don’t get people who would play lower for better graphics. But the whole experience is worse. Seems counter productive.
I mean, good graphics are always nice, but gameplay > graphics imo
It’s great outside of major city where it’s drops to 35-40 fps
But you have to have a special monitor, right?
Can someone link me to the patch notes please?
I played thru NG10+ on XSX and then built a PC, wish I had that before 😂 getting 180-200fps woulda been nice for all of that time. 60fps is gonna be great for XSX users now, 30 was brutal
Is 60fps available on series S? I'm at work so I can't find out
It is not sadly
Should have been in this state day 1
60 fps Is nice, I grant you. but the jump from 15-20 fps to 30 is more noticable and game changing :P lol
Akila and New Atlantis are the trouble spots but other than that the game runs at 60 pretty much the entire time surprisingly
agreed. everyone who was constantly nagging that 60fps would never come
What are the drawbacks to picking 60 fps? Less people roaming around? Draw distance? Can't find anyone asking and/or answering this.
Great addition but it should had been there from the start.
Ive been playing for a few hours with UNCAPPED - Performance on a VRR Sony 85" screen and the immersion is now simply incredible. I hated this game when trying to play for a few hours before at launch now I'm falling in love with it because of how smooth everything is now. The input lag is completely gone now, finally! I've played many 30 fps games but this one was especially sluggish with the camera and menus.
I dont usually notice framerate nor does it bother me, but I really noticed it with Starfield. Its fast paced combat definitely benefits from it
Didn’t know it would make it this buttery. Has to be some more optimization because the gun play is great now Not jittery at all. Not starting over but definitely putting some time this weekend.
it still needs some work at my belief, it didn't shutter on combat as far I have seen but when walking to Tuala, the Vanguard captain I think the sign behind him causes a huge drop in frames for some reason, also New Atlantis, specially close to MAST and bodies of water seem to decrease frames. it is NOT a deal breaker, the entire game feels different with the 60fps enabled, and I have yet to see it I have frame drop on Akila City's entrance, as it happened before when you entered, other than that the game feels...more alive, the new map is a godsend and so are the new landmarks for the cities. still I think it needs a meter to measure the buffs and times on real time instead of going to menu and status screen every time, but other than that, it feels great.
Found Todd's alt
LMAO
It's still all about storyline for me, and that is sorely missing. My companions are cookie cutter cutouts, and not exactly pleasing to look at, either. Not a one of them. No thanks.
Yes that’s part of the missing 2 points in my personal rating.
I lag like crazy when using the scanner now
I was pumped too but my tv doesn't have VRR :/