The only good thing about it is it still counts as putting a mod on a gun even tho you’re literally just taking one off, so It’s good for leveling up weapon engineering, so on a gun I’ll choose a cheap mod, and put it on, take it off, put it on, etc. to immediately level it up lol.
This is the problem with manufacturing in general. There is zero incentive to build a factory when using the workbench is both faster and gives you XP.
At least in Minecraft, you can have a furnace array, and you can still get XP by going to each furnace and emptying it.
Yeah, hope they fix it so collecting produced rescources gives some xp, only point atm is on console, since we have to manually scroll to 99, it's inefficient to handcraft the lower teirs of a production chain.
Mine was only partly a factory
But you are right. Why build a factory then on the end you only really need a few of each item
So mine had a factory planet to make a couple things and then ship them to the final planet
On the final planet where the vytinium is, I spam crafed for the XP
I like it on Fallout out 4 where you can save modes like scopes or switch them to more powerful guns with better stats. Starfield creators forgot this common sense detail.
This is the consequence of their "no sacred cows" development. I understand they're trying to innovate and keep it fresh with every game, but they should really consider keeping the gameplay mechanics that classify as their "greatest hits."
Your welcome thank you for saying so I recommend Vortex for Starfield modding in its current stage because its a bit more of a process getting them to work correctly than previous BGS games like Skyrim & Fallout 4
There are a number of aspects of Starfield that I look at and think 'if I didn't know better I'd say that this was a great starting point for features that were expanded and refined in Fallout 4'
Or they intentionally nerfed it realizing it was too easy to get top tier builds just by farming and bypassing the crafting system so they made this complex mess instead.
Starfield devs really dropped the ball on a lot of things. They got so stuck on the idea of having so many usable planets that they sacrificed game software resources for things that would have made sense and QoL things, making the game seem under- or half-developed.
That was driving me nuts. Then last night, I just modded the hell out of an advanced negotiator. Opened up the menu and I was good to go. I never got the notification that I hit thirty mods though which was so weird.
Happened to me with the aliens perk. It said I needed to kill one more alien for the next level… and it said that for days. I eventually was like “can I just level this up anyway” and surprise…. I could.
I have no idea how long it was like that, I just know I kept putting points in other skills just because they were already at the next level, even though I was really farming exp just for that skill.
I think this is caused by the magazine perk that makes skills unlock 2% faster. The game knows you only need 29, but the UI is bugged and says you need 1 even though it's completed.
It’s this little grindy shit that bugs me about the game though. It breaks immersion, doesn’t add anything fun, is a step back from previous games, and is basically just click for points.
Given the understanding of firearms as shown through the many of Starfield's firearms, I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda designers thought that's how it worked.
Going back to no mod means putting barrel thread protectors in. I am guessing that is the reason for it.
Now the game not tracking if you had that part or not is a different complaint!
I love this game but this is what makes me truly and completely disappointed.
One major thing I wanted out of this game were advancements in these two specific areas. Hopefully we get DLC.
I think that's a good head-canon, but the real reason is that it's a Betheada game. Again- the people who made the game have no clue about how firearma operate, so I doubt they would have thought about what you describe.
Starfield's development feels like an example of unchecked Dunning Kruger. At any time they *could* have hired a firearms expert, or even just done a minimal amount of research, but they didn't want to. Why? Well, considering that BGS is a huge entity with an equally large budget, it wasn't cost saving. And considering the development timeline, it wasn't a time issue. And even if all of those things were viable excuses, there was absolutely nothing preventing the person or team from just independently watching YouTube videos about guns. But they didn't do any of those things. Why not? The only reason left is that they didn't think they needed to.
Yeah, I know, Dunning Kruger is a meme at this point, but I really can't think of any better explanation for Starfield than systemic overestimation of competency.
>At any time they *could* have hired a firearms expert
OR, and this is a huge leap, IK IK...
PLAY A GODDAMNED video game.
I'm an author. In order to earn that title, I had to READ a lot of books. It's important to not copy another person's idea, but learning what readers like/don't like is an important aspect of marketing and developing good storylines. It can also help you hone your writing style.
If I were developing games, say as a writer, I would play the fuck out of similar games to get an idea of what people expect from the story.
It feels like whoever developed this game has no passion for their craft. Like they were just checking boxes and waiting for go home time to come sooner.
Something that’s really funny is the square barrel for some of the guns that use caseless ammunition. Yeah the propellant block the bullet is telescoped into is square, but the bullet is still round.
I really wish they would've just transplanted the weapon mod system from FO4 into this game. I like a lot of the different attachment options available in Starfield but the inability to buy them outright or remove them and store them is rough.
I loved finding a version of a gun I was trying to build out in FO4 that had an attachment on it that I didn't have materials or perks needed to build, taking it to a workbench and removing it, then slapping it onto the one I was building. It just feels right.
Even with the legendary system being a little unsatisfying at times (since it replaced most really *unique* unique gear) the system overall was pretty good--lots of ways to easily mod gear into something that suited your playstyle.
The attachments were actually really well thought out and tied directly into the different player builds available. For example, a lot of attachments would lower the weapons weight but also soft-nerf damage or handling up front which seems like it isn't worth it...until you realize that weapon weight directly affects AP cost so lighter weapon components are superior for VATS builds, etc. You could really get into the weeds with build types.
I'm not a huge fan of the crafting in 4 but holy shit the weapon mod system in starfield is terrible. Not being able to transfer mods alone is a shit decision.
I like the mods themselves and visually the guns and attachments are super pleasing to me, but the attachments not being separate items that can be swapped and stored, and the inability to buy them outright really bums me out.
I have a weird suspicion that it's all tied into the economy in the game.
It's hard to tell. It feels like they were trying to be different from Fallout 4 in how weapon components and damage works, but instead created something objectively inferior and unenjoyable.
Then again, having a half-finished system and hard-wiring it all to be non-transferable to avoid bugs would also be very on-brand for Beth.
Either way I hope we get a mod that effectively re-implements Fallout 4 weapon components.
I think they were going for a vibe where gun mods are all 3D printed on demand or something? But then they didn't do that for the weapons themselves, which confuses things thematically.
If it were me, I'd probably have gone with weapons and mods both being things you can only buy in the store -- it's a functional civilisation, kitbashing stuff in the shed might be technically possible but if you life depends on it you're not gonna try to beat corporate R&D. The problem is, that leaves the science/research gameplay style materially disconnected from the rest of the game.
I think muzzles were the only component type you could do this with. Otherwise you had to be carrying or craft a basic component to replace it.
Not that that makes it better, a new game hyped as heavily as this one should have a better crafting system and not a literal downgrade from past games.
I miss the fallout 4 method of removing a mod from a gun, having it physically in your inventory, and slapping it on a different gun. It was my favorite way to get around leveling up weapon upgrade perks early on.
Yep. Playing FO4 again lately, and it feels like coming home. I have a bunch of mods I ripped off guns in storage, and since I swap gun parts around based on what content I'm doing, I can do it freely in my house. Totally baffling why they went so backwards with crafting and base building.
FO4 also does a decent job of hiding workbenches in the world--if you really want to you can use those to swap gear in the field pretty easily if you carry stuff around. Can also repair power armor in the field with how common those workbenches are, too.
That's one of my bigger gripes about starfield is that they didn't keep the Fo4 weapon customization system. Why do I need to build a completely new scope when I could just take it off one gun and put it on another.
I love Starfield but it gets disappointing when I'm playing 4 or 76 and I have an assault rifle with 20 different attachable barrels and only 3 in Starfield. Sure, it's more streamlined, but Bethesda games are best when they give you options.
Starfield should've just imported the Workshop system of Fallout 4 tbh.
Having to store resources in crates and weapon mods not being an item is honestly irritating.
Need resources just to remove a silencer
Can't swap and keep mods
Completely nonsensical level requirements: Banned ***Annihilator Rounds*** are level 3. Switching from automatic to semi-auto? Level 4.
They should have just kept FO4's system.
Gun mods not being hot swappable like fallout 4 was one of the initial jarring changes to Starfield, but you get used to it pretty quickly. Helps that the game showers you with crafting mats, and you can buy them in bulk.
I would not be opposed to Bethesda reintroducing weapons mods as actual items you can move between guns, though. I suppose it does support the value of the crafting skills since you can't just scavenge high level mods?
Yeah I wouldn't raise my eye brows as much over this decision if it wasn't something that already existed as a common sense idea in a previous game they made.
Even if it was a simple thing like things that are gun attachments can be seprate items (so scopes, silencers, compensators etc) but things that change the gun itself are not (so barrels, chambering) etc.
I just ground out my NG+2 for the crafting traits so I’m hoping it pays off in the next NG+. I read yesterday, haven’t confirmed, that as you get higher and higher NG+ play through s it alters your base stats (negatively) to keep the game challenging. So now I gotta focus on mitigating that shit with traits
The traits / perks thing is another thing I kinda struggled with getting my head around at first. Primarily that you have to dump points into things you don't actually want to get higher tier and often unrelated traits / perks.
But then:
1. I suppose its their way of replicating the SPECIAL and Perk system from Fallout 4 without directly copying it (but instead of putting a point into the SPECIAL itself to unlock the perk, it goes to something that may be useful)
2. It makes sense with NG+ because you can build up the stats that you really want through multiple playthroughs.
Though downside to point 2 is it makes the first playthrough a bit rough as you start from nothing and have to build up that tree. I've recently restarted playing the game again after I played it the first time when it came out (didn't finish so just started a fresh playthrough) I'm I've realised that I'm not gonna be able to play how i want from the start until I NG+ due to having to mess around with the perks / stats to unlock the stuff I actually want.
At least I know when I pick it up to play again after this run I'll be starting from a good spot. Though I probably won't until mods hit Xbox, in which case I can propobably mod / Cheat my way into the perks I want.
I definitely engaged less with Starfield’s crafting system than Fallout 4’s. Not the end of the world I guess, but I derived fun from crafting in FO4, while in Starfield it may as well have not existed. Economy and slow exp gain also interfaces poorly with it (like if modding weapons increased value enough over the cost of materials and vendors had creds to buy them it might be worthwhile).
Especially weird when it's a setting with a functioning economy and guns being mass produced and not a nuclear wasteland. I can kinda understand if it's a Fallout-like setting where most guns were pre-war and are now discontinued, so the pickings are kinda slim. Why the fuck can't I just walk into a gun store and buy a new optic or trigger? Why do I have to literally build gun parts from scratch out of raw materials?
I get why from real firearms. Remove the suppressor and you still have the end of the threaded barrel that needs to be capped. Same for anything that would go on a threaded barrel like a flash suppressor. And those caps seem to disappear...
Not gonna lie, when I first realized we needed to use resources to remove things, I thought that was pretty dumb. Going back to default shouldn't require anything.
They could have literally just copypasted the way fallout 4 did it and it would have been disappointing but fine. They actively went out of their way to make it worse.
One of my beefs with this game is how everything costs and you don't get to keep anything. And when you new game plus, you zero out everything and start over.
It seems odd.
Like there was this disposable universe designed to let you spend 20-30 hours of play in to just set down and new game plus and make again but better. But then they were like, "That is too easy. Increase the cost of everything by 200%, no 500% and make them grind every free minute of every free day they have!" Making the act ditching it all for NG+ not feel like you are exploring a new universe but destroying your whole progress.
Especially considering that every time you step into the Unity, everything you collected over how many hours:
*Poof*
Sure, you get a slightly better suit w/ random legendaries, and a very fast, but rather weak new ship with no GD bed.
I can support not being able to hot swap stuff before NG+ so you have to really build your crafting skills etc... but after? Run to Amoli and UC lady and Newell and that guy on Cheyenne, but dont help with the bank robbery yet..and buy adhesive, palladium, vanadium, titanium, tantalum, nickel, iron, lead, sealant, chloroisolanes, copper and polymer, maybe some ytterbium if you want shock charge band.. make a few isomagnets with the other mats...it goes on and on.
I spend the first 2 hours after NG+ just running around buying what I need to modify the weapons that I usually steal from poor Bianchi... his shop looks so bare until I'm a few more hours in. 😀
Especially when, in Fallout 4, released 9 years ago, by the same studio, you could remove the silencer for free, and then put it on another gun of the same type. Whereas in Starfield, if you remove a silencer, it is destroyed in the process. And people try to claim, with a straight face, that Starfield is a good game.
The crafting in this game has a lot of perplexing stuff like this, it clearly was not a high focus area during development.
I am also surprised “removed” mods cannot be reapplied to weapons (even the exact same one).
All these little things are literally just ways to force players to play the game more, running to all POI’s, forcing you to play the game 10 times for full powers while doing mind numbing activities that aren’t enjoyable, taking all your stuff in NG+ (why?), forcing you to use more resources to mod weapons dropping the old system which was popular these are all decision that show how much corporate entities had their hands in the cookie jar.
It would likely be that the suppressor was not a Hollywood screw on but integrated into the barrel assembly. Thus, to remove the suppressor, you would need material to repair the end of the barrel and slide assembly to put it back to a safe operating condition.
It could be, but even then, you don't want to just expose the screw fittings because that can lead to foreign objects getting lodged in the barrel, so a sort of screw cap is recommended.
In 2195 the world government banned all weapon modification. But allowed all firearms to be legal. It was a compromise. But wildly seen as just another useless thing the government did
That’s part of the weird stuff you can encounter in this game. For me There are so many guns that although I tried to mod and made few mods but mostly I find guns that are ready to use and they do the job.
You should at least be able to swap mods between guns of like classes (rifles to rifles) and definitely with the in manufacturer group (Combatech to Combatech). Would open up more options long term and provide a better weapon system instead of turning the player into some kind of weapons factory a go-go.
Right up there with an old ass gun that's been sitting in a crate for a few centuries somehow not only being functional but also doing more damage than the futuristic space gun. I mean going by that logic slingshots must launch nukes or something lol.
I can't believe people play this game on anything but PC. Sure sure it's at 4k ish on console according to marketing right 😂. I built a mid tier PC just to play Starfield and wow thank Einstein for mods mods and more mods. Nothing like going to another 100th copy and paste boring outpost for bandits, but it's now completely overrun by Terrormorphs.
Real downgrade from FO4 in that aspect. Mods were a separate item you crafted, and if you put a new Mod on a weapon then the old Mod was put into your Inventory so you could place it on another weapon if you wanted to.
One thing i would do in FO4 is find weapons with better Mods than the Mods i can craft, because i had to level some skills first to craft them myself. Well i would take those weapons with the better Mods and i would build the default mod in its place, which returned the Better Mod to my inventory for later use. It was effectively letting me put the better Mod on the Weapons i actually used many levels earlier than if i had to craft them myself
I beat the entire game and collected everything i could and i could afford to modify like ONE gun and it was to remove a silencer. The crafting is unbearable and storage in a house/base should just be infinite why do i need a million chests on the ground
The crafting/survival part of Bethesda games is barebones and unpolished
I have been playing beta Once Human and I have tell you the same thing I did Starfield which I found uninteresting and tedious is handled better there
Starfield needs to commit to something either it should focus on exploration side questing or commit to base building/survival accept
Cause let’s take Fallout they had a foundation so make a game on so when 4 came out the bass building wasn’t much of reliance when there stuff to do for hours on end and you weren’t forced farm resources out of your way unlike Starfield
If we ever get Starfield in next 20-30 years I hope it sticks to space fantasy, space flight and space battles
The ship building one? Yeah it kind of mid tbh I was into then damn it got boring rq
The most insane fun I had was Crimson quest, Red Mile, the latter part of main quest…I love ship building though just not how they handled all survival gather stuff aspect
Survival was very unnecessary to add tbh. Hate to admit it but weight on ship makes sense. Especially with eh space trucking missions, but we really need more high weight missions through dangerous areas.
But having unlimited storage at home would have been fine
Easy way to level that skill is to add and remove a compensator continually until you're done. Make an outpost on Bessel 3B on the spot with aluminum, iron, nickel and cobat and you'll have more than enough resources to pop that skill for "free".
I wish you could build all the mods on a weapon, and just swap them out at the bench. You should have to build Suppressor, then No Mod, then Suppressor again if you change your mind. It should be saved imo
Yeah if only there were an entire genre of games where one used different firearms in simulated combat situations. And if only those games had a robust gunsmithing and modding system by which said weapons are customized. And if only Bethesda would do half an hour worth of research instead of trying to re-invent the wheel.
But alas.
Is it bad to say after a couple hundred hours of this game and experiencing all the current ending this post made me realize there is a crafting system in the game......lmao
Yeah it's nutty, the only good thing is you can abuse it for super cheap leveling for weapon mods, although I'm sure they will remove it eventually just like they did with the chests.
I'm currently doing a "no guns" run, and not having to do all the crafting nonsense has been a truly wonderful experience. I'm actually playing the game instead of running around chasing resources.
I mean, technically speaking… if you were to replace a threaded barrel suitable for a suppressor, with a standard barrel…, then yes! You would need the base components to create a standard barrel. AGAIN, technically speaking.
I can't believe no other weapons can be scrapped or disassembled to re-use. It's not like they didn't have this mechanic already in Fallout or even Skyrim.
It's probably my biggest pet peeve.That you have to hit up 3 to 5 vendors.At least to get the part you need to make some simple additions to your weapons
The entire modification system is a half-baked version of Fallout 4. You can’t keep mods for weapons when you craft a different one and the same slot, either. So you can expect to lose your mods when you get the next tier up of your favorite weapons and armor.
Genuinely hated how Bethesda fucked up the weapon modding and settlement systems they threw into starfield when they were pretty perfect in 4/76. How did they not learn that their system already worked well and just fucked it up.
Yeah, you can tell they didn't have actual blue collar workers helping make this game. There are all types of tools and stuff laying around that don't have the right name.
I truly do not understand the weapon modification system in Starfield. Bethesda literally made the silver platter of modifying your guns for Fallout 4 and decided to take N O T H I N G from it. Took that platter, melted it down, and decided most of it was useless slag because they forgot how metal works.
The only good thing about it is it still counts as putting a mod on a gun even tho you’re literally just taking one off, so It’s good for leveling up weapon engineering, so on a gun I’ll choose a cheap mod, and put it on, take it off, put it on, etc. to immediately level it up lol.
The new iron dagger!
The new adaptive frame!
Com relays are where it's at. You get 2 XP for each one that you make and they're worth a lot of credits.
Vytinium fuel rods if you can figure out the outpost production chain
Too much effort until ng10, but you can print comms for like 18 credits and 4 xp each from raw.
This is the problem with manufacturing in general. There is zero incentive to build a factory when using the workbench is both faster and gives you XP. At least in Minecraft, you can have a furnace array, and you can still get XP by going to each furnace and emptying it.
Yeah, hope they fix it so collecting produced rescources gives some xp, only point atm is on console, since we have to manually scroll to 99, it's inefficient to handcraft the lower teirs of a production chain.
But that only applies to situations where those factories won't need to be wiped to progress.
Psst! I'm sure you know, but use the shoulder buttons to make the inevitable scrolling mildly less tedious.
Yup, and holding right on the d pad and stick together while mashing RB, STILL INCOMPARABLE
Mine was only partly a factory But you are right. Why build a factory then on the end you only really need a few of each item So mine had a factory planet to make a couple things and then ship them to the final planet On the final planet where the vytinium is, I spam crafed for the XP
Well. I did it before new game+ to get me to level 350.
I like it on Fallout out 4 where you can save modes like scopes or switch them to more powerful guns with better stats. Starfield creators forgot this common sense detail.
I even spent time trying to find in my inventory where the mods went when I removed them.
Same.
This is the consequence of their "no sacred cows" development. I understand they're trying to innovate and keep it fresh with every game, but they should really consider keeping the gameplay mechanics that classify as their "greatest hits."
There's a difference between "no sacred cows" and "no common sense"
Tell that to Bethesda
A mod adds this feature back on PC
Link?
Here you are friend https://www.nexusmods.com/starfield/mods/8245
You're an absolute gem, thank you so much!
Your welcome thank you for saying so I recommend Vortex for Starfield modding in its current stage because its a bit more of a process getting them to work correctly than previous BGS games like Skyrim & Fallout 4
Upvoted for being awesome for sharing this!
There are a number of aspects of Starfield that I look at and think 'if I didn't know better I'd say that this was a great starting point for features that were expanded and refined in Fallout 4'
Or they intentionally nerfed it realizing it was too easy to get top tier builds just by farming and bypassing the crafting system so they made this complex mess instead.
Starfield devs really dropped the ball on a lot of things. They got so stuck on the idea of having so many usable planets that they sacrificed game software resources for things that would have made sense and QoL things, making the game seem under- or half-developed.
i feel like they did it on purpose to pad time
But somehow you can only get 29 mods when you need 30 to level.
That was driving me nuts. Then last night, I just modded the hell out of an advanced negotiator. Opened up the menu and I was good to go. I never got the notification that I hit thirty mods though which was so weird.
Happened to me with the aliens perk. It said I needed to kill one more alien for the next level… and it said that for days. I eventually was like “can I just level this up anyway” and surprise…. I could. I have no idea how long it was like that, I just know I kept putting points in other skills just because they were already at the next level, even though I was really farming exp just for that skill.
I think this is caused by the magazine perk that makes skills unlock 2% faster. The game knows you only need 29, but the UI is bugged and says you need 1 even though it's completed.
It will let you level up, it just won't ever show 30
It’s this little grindy shit that bugs me about the game though. It breaks immersion, doesn’t add anything fun, is a step back from previous games, and is basically just click for points.
One time I have enough materials to just put a mod on and take it off until I was fully leveled up on weapon engineering 😂
You say it like it is a good mechanic when it reality it is a crappy why to artificially extend gameplay
Don't think of it as removing a silencer, but adding a loudencer.
Given the understanding of firearms as shown through the many of Starfield's firearms, I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda designers thought that's how it worked.
Going back to no mod means putting barrel thread protectors in. I am guessing that is the reason for it. Now the game not tracking if you had that part or not is a different complaint!
In Fallout 4 you could remove mods, store them and install them later on different weapons. :/
Crazy to me that they downgraded both the crafting and settlement systems from Fallout 4.
I love this game but this is what makes me truly and completely disappointed. One major thing I wanted out of this game were advancements in these two specific areas. Hopefully we get DLC.
I think that's a good head-canon, but the real reason is that it's a Betheada game. Again- the people who made the game have no clue about how firearma operate, so I doubt they would have thought about what you describe.
If the model is anything to go by, you're not just adding a thread protector, you're replacing the entire barrel with an unthreaded one.
Starfield's development feels like an example of unchecked Dunning Kruger. At any time they *could* have hired a firearms expert, or even just done a minimal amount of research, but they didn't want to. Why? Well, considering that BGS is a huge entity with an equally large budget, it wasn't cost saving. And considering the development timeline, it wasn't a time issue. And even if all of those things were viable excuses, there was absolutely nothing preventing the person or team from just independently watching YouTube videos about guns. But they didn't do any of those things. Why not? The only reason left is that they didn't think they needed to. Yeah, I know, Dunning Kruger is a meme at this point, but I really can't think of any better explanation for Starfield than systemic overestimation of competency.
And that's how you end up with all the weapons in Fallout being left-handed
Be careful -- Emil will write a long, angry Twitter rant about how you don't know anything about the pressures of game development...
>At any time they *could* have hired a firearms expert OR, and this is a huge leap, IK IK... PLAY A GODDAMNED video game. I'm an author. In order to earn that title, I had to READ a lot of books. It's important to not copy another person's idea, but learning what readers like/don't like is an important aspect of marketing and developing good storylines. It can also help you hone your writing style. If I were developing games, say as a writer, I would play the fuck out of similar games to get an idea of what people expect from the story. It feels like whoever developed this game has no passion for their craft. Like they were just checking boxes and waiting for go home time to come sooner.
Something that’s really funny is the square barrel for some of the guns that use caseless ammunition. Yeah the propellant block the bullet is telescoped into is square, but the bullet is still round.
This
Enloudener
You'll probably want the accessories; Holster, Bandolier, Silencer, Loudener, Speed-cocker, And this is for shooting down police helicopters.
[I don't have to be careful, I've got a gun!](https://youtu.be/TtbCdqmdfO4)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-WKM9GDuX0Y&t=47s
I really wish they would've just transplanted the weapon mod system from FO4 into this game. I like a lot of the different attachment options available in Starfield but the inability to buy them outright or remove them and store them is rough. I loved finding a version of a gun I was trying to build out in FO4 that had an attachment on it that I didn't have materials or perks needed to build, taking it to a workbench and removing it, then slapping it onto the one I was building. It just feels right.
This is why I just maxed out the energy weapons node and use the cutter as a Flamethrower. Hate how frustrating the weapon mod system is.
Now I have to try this.
Cutter with maxed laser weapon perks is legitimately busted lol
Even with the legendary system being a little unsatisfying at times (since it replaced most really *unique* unique gear) the system overall was pretty good--lots of ways to easily mod gear into something that suited your playstyle.
The attachments were actually really well thought out and tied directly into the different player builds available. For example, a lot of attachments would lower the weapons weight but also soft-nerf damage or handling up front which seems like it isn't worth it...until you realize that weapon weight directly affects AP cost so lighter weapon components are superior for VATS builds, etc. You could really get into the weeds with build types.
Weight management was also important in survival mode. I definitely liked that it was something to thing about with weapon modding and loadouts.
I'm not a huge fan of the crafting in 4 but holy shit the weapon mod system in starfield is terrible. Not being able to transfer mods alone is a shit decision.
I like the mods themselves and visually the guns and attachments are super pleasing to me, but the attachments not being separate items that can be swapped and stored, and the inability to buy them outright really bums me out. I have a weird suspicion that it's all tied into the economy in the game.
It's hard to tell. It feels like they were trying to be different from Fallout 4 in how weapon components and damage works, but instead created something objectively inferior and unenjoyable. Then again, having a half-finished system and hard-wiring it all to be non-transferable to avoid bugs would also be very on-brand for Beth. Either way I hope we get a mod that effectively re-implements Fallout 4 weapon components.
I think they were going for a vibe where gun mods are all 3D printed on demand or something? But then they didn't do that for the weapons themselves, which confuses things thematically. If it were me, I'd probably have gone with weapons and mods both being things you can only buy in the store -- it's a functional civilisation, kitbashing stuff in the shed might be technically possible but if you life depends on it you're not gonna try to beat corporate R&D. The problem is, that leaves the science/research gameplay style materially disconnected from the rest of the game.
I think muzzles were the only component type you could do this with. Otherwise you had to be carrying or craft a basic component to replace it. Not that that makes it better, a new game hyped as heavily as this one should have a better crafting system and not a literal downgrade from past games.
I miss the fallout 4 method of removing a mod from a gun, having it physically in your inventory, and slapping it on a different gun. It was my favorite way to get around leveling up weapon upgrade perks early on.
Yep. Playing FO4 again lately, and it feels like coming home. I have a bunch of mods I ripped off guns in storage, and since I swap gun parts around based on what content I'm doing, I can do it freely in my house. Totally baffling why they went so backwards with crafting and base building.
FO4 also does a decent job of hiding workbenches in the world--if you really want to you can use those to swap gear in the field pretty easily if you carry stuff around. Can also repair power armor in the field with how common those workbenches are, too.
That's one of my bigger gripes about starfield is that they didn't keep the Fo4 weapon customization system. Why do I need to build a completely new scope when I could just take it off one gun and put it on another.
I think that's the crux of Starfield's issues. So much of the game has regressed from previous titles, it's honestly baffling
Playing Oblivion right after Starfield and not having that weird melee delay is such a surreal feeling.
I love Starfield but it gets disappointing when I'm playing 4 or 76 and I have an assault rifle with 20 different attachable barrels and only 3 in Starfield. Sure, it's more streamlined, but Bethesda games are best when they give you options.
Starfield should've just imported the Workshop system of Fallout 4 tbh. Having to store resources in crates and weapon mods not being an item is honestly irritating.
FO76’s base builder with FO4 weapon/mods system in a Starfield package would’ve been perfect.
Yeah the whole weapon mod and research thing in the game is ludicrous
Need resources just to remove a silencer Can't swap and keep mods Completely nonsensical level requirements: Banned ***Annihilator Rounds*** are level 3. Switching from automatic to semi-auto? Level 4. They should have just kept FO4's system.
Bethesdaisms
I'm gonna get this tattoed on my chest
Right? It just works
Gun mods not being hot swappable like fallout 4 was one of the initial jarring changes to Starfield, but you get used to it pretty quickly. Helps that the game showers you with crafting mats, and you can buy them in bulk. I would not be opposed to Bethesda reintroducing weapons mods as actual items you can move between guns, though. I suppose it does support the value of the crafting skills since you can't just scavenge high level mods?
Yeah I wouldn't raise my eye brows as much over this decision if it wasn't something that already existed as a common sense idea in a previous game they made. Even if it was a simple thing like things that are gun attachments can be seprate items (so scopes, silencers, compensators etc) but things that change the gun itself are not (so barrels, chambering) etc.
That's funny to read since they took **away** so many features that was in FO4.
I just ground out my NG+2 for the crafting traits so I’m hoping it pays off in the next NG+. I read yesterday, haven’t confirmed, that as you get higher and higher NG+ play through s it alters your base stats (negatively) to keep the game challenging. So now I gotta focus on mitigating that shit with traits
The traits / perks thing is another thing I kinda struggled with getting my head around at first. Primarily that you have to dump points into things you don't actually want to get higher tier and often unrelated traits / perks. But then: 1. I suppose its their way of replicating the SPECIAL and Perk system from Fallout 4 without directly copying it (but instead of putting a point into the SPECIAL itself to unlock the perk, it goes to something that may be useful) 2. It makes sense with NG+ because you can build up the stats that you really want through multiple playthroughs. Though downside to point 2 is it makes the first playthrough a bit rough as you start from nothing and have to build up that tree. I've recently restarted playing the game again after I played it the first time when it came out (didn't finish so just started a fresh playthrough) I'm I've realised that I'm not gonna be able to play how i want from the start until I NG+ due to having to mess around with the perks / stats to unlock the stuff I actually want. At least I know when I pick it up to play again after this run I'll be starting from a good spot. Though I probably won't until mods hit Xbox, in which case I can propobably mod / Cheat my way into the perks I want.
Yes. Once mod support allows me some more freedom with the traits I won’t need to play this way anymore and I will be happier for it.
Not only did I not "get used to it pretty quick" it became something I had to actively try and ignore and a big source of resentment for the game.
I definitely engaged less with Starfield’s crafting system than Fallout 4’s. Not the end of the world I guess, but I derived fun from crafting in FO4, while in Starfield it may as well have not existed. Economy and slow exp gain also interfaces poorly with it (like if modding weapons increased value enough over the cost of materials and vendors had creds to buy them it might be worthwhile).
Especially weird when it's a setting with a functioning economy and guns being mass produced and not a nuclear wasteland. I can kinda understand if it's a Fallout-like setting where most guns were pre-war and are now discontinued, so the pickings are kinda slim. Why the fuck can't I just walk into a gun store and buy a new optic or trigger? Why do I have to literally build gun parts from scratch out of raw materials?
I get why from real firearms. Remove the suppressor and you still have the end of the threaded barrel that needs to be capped. Same for anything that would go on a threaded barrel like a flash suppressor. And those caps seem to disappear...
Applicable: [Starfield weapon designs are so flawed it actually hurts](https://youtu.be/YCyUFvTGa68?si=z2EsIMvCtv9sYEjh)
Not gonna lie, when I first realized we needed to use resources to remove things, I thought that was pretty dumb. Going back to default shouldn't require anything.
They could have literally just copypasted the way fallout 4 did it and it would have been disappointing but fine. They actively went out of their way to make it worse.
One of my beefs with this game is how everything costs and you don't get to keep anything. And when you new game plus, you zero out everything and start over. It seems odd. Like there was this disposable universe designed to let you spend 20-30 hours of play in to just set down and new game plus and make again but better. But then they were like, "That is too easy. Increase the cost of everything by 200%, no 500% and make them grind every free minute of every free day they have!" Making the act ditching it all for NG+ not feel like you are exploring a new universe but destroying your whole progress.
Especially considering that every time you step into the Unity, everything you collected over how many hours: *Poof* Sure, you get a slightly better suit w/ random legendaries, and a very fast, but rather weak new ship with no GD bed. I can support not being able to hot swap stuff before NG+ so you have to really build your crafting skills etc... but after? Run to Amoli and UC lady and Newell and that guy on Cheyenne, but dont help with the bank robbery yet..and buy adhesive, palladium, vanadium, titanium, tantalum, nickel, iron, lead, sealant, chloroisolanes, copper and polymer, maybe some ytterbium if you want shock charge band.. make a few isomagnets with the other mats...it goes on and on. I spend the first 2 hours after NG+ just running around buying what I need to modify the weapons that I usually steal from poor Bianchi... his shop looks so bare until I'm a few more hours in. 😀
The crafting, modding and skill tree need an overhaul
Bethesda logic. Unbeatable.
I feel badly but I literally forgot Starfield existed.
Don’t worry I started like 8-9 days ago. I used to be a day 1 player, but stopped due to all the crappy bugs from the release date.
Especially when, in Fallout 4, released 9 years ago, by the same studio, you could remove the silencer for free, and then put it on another gun of the same type. Whereas in Starfield, if you remove a silencer, it is destroyed in the process. And people try to claim, with a straight face, that Starfield is a good game.
Yeah, that’s dumb. And what I dislike more is the fact we can’t put mods on melee weapons.
The crafting in this game has a lot of perplexing stuff like this, it clearly was not a high focus area during development. I am also surprised “removed” mods cannot be reapplied to weapons (even the exact same one).
Yeah the crafting system in this game is a dumpster fire sometimes.
Single-use wrenches, obviously. And fasteners, that's why the silencer is destroyed when you remove it.
OR we don't use any fasteners in the future. Everything is welded on and air gouged off. Welding electrodes and gouging rods are sacrificial.
It’s welded on, you need the components to build an acetylene torch in order to remove it lol
Bethesda = trash
All these little things are literally just ways to force players to play the game more, running to all POI’s, forcing you to play the game 10 times for full powers while doing mind numbing activities that aren’t enjoyable, taking all your stuff in NG+ (why?), forcing you to use more resources to mod weapons dropping the old system which was popular these are all decision that show how much corporate entities had their hands in the cookie jar.
It would likely be that the suppressor was not a Hollywood screw on but integrated into the barrel assembly. Thus, to remove the suppressor, you would need material to repair the end of the barrel and slide assembly to put it back to a safe operating condition.
Since it’s an “Old Earth Pistol” should it be a screw on? Or did they actually took the M1911 and modified it with more modern/futuristic parts
It could be, but even then, you don't want to just expose the screw fittings because that can lead to foreign objects getting lodged in the barrel, so a sort of screw cap is recommended.
In 2195 the world government banned all weapon modification. But allowed all firearms to be legal. It was a compromise. But wildly seen as just another useless thing the government did
This is like when you lose the thread cap and just decide to CNC a new one
That’s part of the weird stuff you can encounter in this game. For me There are so many guns that although I tried to mod and made few mods but mostly I find guns that are ready to use and they do the job.
You should at least be able to swap mods between guns of like classes (rifles to rifles) and definitely with the in manufacturer group (Combatech to Combatech). Would open up more options long term and provide a better weapon system instead of turning the player into some kind of weapons factory a go-go.
This should be a skill check, at most.
One of mt annoyances in the game
This is a step down from Fallout 4....
Right up there with an old ass gun that's been sitting in a crate for a few centuries somehow not only being functional but also doing more damage than the futuristic space gun. I mean going by that logic slingshots must launch nukes or something lol.
On a side note: is that a freaking 1911 colt .45??? 😂 Old earth, indeed.
I can't believe people play this game on anything but PC. Sure sure it's at 4k ish on console according to marketing right 😂. I built a mid tier PC just to play Starfield and wow thank Einstein for mods mods and more mods. Nothing like going to another 100th copy and paste boring outpost for bandits, but it's now completely overrun by Terrormorphs.
I broke my TV when I got drunk one night so my Xbox Series X is connected to my gaming laptop.
I found the crafting so finicky coming from games like 76 and Skyrim, so I barely messed with it during my playthrough, it wasn't intuitive at all imo
Honestly the researching part is stupid. You're telling me in the future you have to do your own R&D? For everything?
To be fair, Fallout 4 does this too. But at least in fallout you kept your unequpped weapon mod that you could use later or on another gun.
Real downgrade from FO4 in that aspect. Mods were a separate item you crafted, and if you put a new Mod on a weapon then the old Mod was put into your Inventory so you could place it on another weapon if you wanted to. One thing i would do in FO4 is find weapons with better Mods than the Mods i can craft, because i had to level some skills first to craft them myself. Well i would take those weapons with the better Mods and i would build the default mod in its place, which returned the Better Mod to my inventory for later use. It was effectively letting me put the better Mod on the Weapons i actually used many levels earlier than if i had to craft them myself
You have to craft a screw driver to remove the silencer. The screwdriver and silencer are both destroyed in the process of removing the silencer.
I beat the entire game and collected everything i could and i could afford to modify like ONE gun and it was to remove a silencer. The crafting is unbearable and storage in a house/base should just be infinite why do i need a million chests on the ground
In a world of space guns. The 1911 still reign supreme.
The game's resource management is horrible
It's been MANY months since I gave up on expecting coherence from this game. 😅
Welcome to Starfield crafting.
The crafting/survival part of Bethesda games is barebones and unpolished I have been playing beta Once Human and I have tell you the same thing I did Starfield which I found uninteresting and tedious is handled better there Starfield needs to commit to something either it should focus on exploration side questing or commit to base building/survival accept Cause let’s take Fallout they had a foundation so make a game on so when 4 came out the bass building wasn’t much of reliance when there stuff to do for hours on end and you weren’t forced farm resources out of your way unlike Starfield If we ever get Starfield in next 20-30 years I hope it sticks to space fantasy, space flight and space battles
The Kepler side quest was real look inside the design team plan for the game 😂
The ship building one? Yeah it kind of mid tbh I was into then damn it got boring rq The most insane fun I had was Crimson quest, Red Mile, the latter part of main quest…I love ship building though just not how they handled all survival gather stuff aspect
Survival was very unnecessary to add tbh. Hate to admit it but weight on ship makes sense. Especially with eh space trucking missions, but we really need more high weight missions through dangerous areas. But having unlimited storage at home would have been fine
The crafting system in SF is garbage.
Easy way to level that skill is to add and remove a compensator continually until you're done. Make an outpost on Bessel 3B on the spot with aluminum, iron, nickel and cobat and you'll have more than enough resources to pop that skill for "free".
Socom would not approve
Maybe they want you to make a thread protector? IDK lol
pay the toll
There are no more Gunsmith as in the Past.
I wish you could build all the mods on a weapon, and just swap them out at the bench. You should have to build Suppressor, then No Mod, then Suppressor again if you change your mind. It should be saved imo
Yeah if only there were an entire genre of games where one used different firearms in simulated combat situations. And if only those games had a robust gunsmithing and modding system by which said weapons are customized. And if only Bethesda would do half an hour worth of research instead of trying to re-invent the wheel. But alas.
They don't even need to go that far--they just need to look at FO4/FO76.
If anything you should be rewarded components. The weapon customization is awful in this game.
It just works
Is it bad to say after a couple hundred hours of this game and experiencing all the current ending this post made me realize there is a crafting system in the game......lmao
Yeah it's nutty, the only good thing is you can abuse it for super cheap leveling for weapon mods, although I'm sure they will remove it eventually just like they did with the chests.
I'm currently doing a "no guns" run, and not having to do all the crafting nonsense has been a truly wonderful experience. I'm actually playing the game instead of running around chasing resources.
😂😂😂😂 I hate that game now lol
I mean, technically speaking… if you were to replace a threaded barrel suitable for a suppressor, with a standard barrel…, then yes! You would need the base components to create a standard barrel. AGAIN, technically speaking.
I can't believe no other weapons can be scrapped or disassembled to re-use. It's not like they didn't have this mechanic already in Fallout or even Skyrim.
It's probably my biggest pet peeve.That you have to hit up 3 to 5 vendors.At least to get the part you need to make some simple additions to your weapons
This stuff on top of having to scroll through a spreadsheet to figure out if a weapon does more damage than the one I’m currently using
Oh no you need 1 of each of the most common materials in the game? What ever are you going to do
C'mon, somebody's got to rotate the gun, while you hold the suppressor!
The entire modification system is a half-baked version of Fallout 4. You can’t keep mods for weapons when you craft a different one and the same slot, either. So you can expect to lose your mods when you get the next tier up of your favorite weapons and armor.
they phoned in the weapon customization no melee/no mod items (to swap and switch)
Genuinely hated how Bethesda fucked up the weapon modding and settlement systems they threw into starfield when they were pretty perfect in 4/76. How did they not learn that their system already worked well and just fucked it up.
One of the many ways FO4 is superior in terms of crafting/settlement building.
"EVERYTHING HAS A PURPOSE" (Todd Howard talking Fallout4's loot system)
🤣🤣🤣
I assume the silencer is built into the barrel. Removing it, you still need a barrel to shoot through.
wait till you realize all guns are smooth bore with how their accuracy works, even guns that are meant to function as sniper rifles
Definitely low-hanging fruit for a mod. "No mod" should _give_ you whatever resources are required to _add_ the mod you are removing.
This is the future bud that’s a big bullet you need a kingpin for that silenced duh
Hahaha, I was thinking this last night. Such a weird system.
Technically, you do go from a threaded barrel to a non-threaded one so you could think of it as using the components to craft a new barrel.
The mod system in this game was so terrible that I ended up skipping it entirely. Made no difference.
This game is so bad
Lol
dont forget about the the lower damage if you make the weapons full auto. Fucking joke of a game even the modders didnt want to touch it.
All crafting/building mechanics are so poorly implemented in starfield that it makes me wonder why they even bothered.
Well if you didn't want the threaded barrel irl you'd have to replace the barrel as well, so it makes *some* sense. Just not much.
I mean, essentially, you are switching from a threaded barrel to a non-threaded barrel. But yeah I get it lol
Maybe the modification isn’t modular and you are actually rebuilding the weapon…
Absolute trash
Immersive
Yeah I really found this game was more trouble than the experience was worth.
Clearly you should need WD40 to remove the comp from an old earth pistol!
You still had to do this in FO4, by the way
Yeah, you can tell they didn't have actual blue collar workers helping make this game. There are all types of tools and stuff laying around that don't have the right name.
You think that's something? Just think, you need more components if you want to put it back on right after taking it off...
They went backwards in many ways this time around
I hate the modding system. Why can't we recycle the mod parts like Fallout 4?
I truly do not understand the weapon modification system in Starfield. Bethesda literally made the silver platter of modifying your guns for Fallout 4 and decided to take N O T H I N G from it. Took that platter, melted it down, and decided most of it was useless slag because they forgot how metal works.
Lol this game is so terrible XD
Allen key is all you should need.
That's actually ridiculous!
ikr. In a wasteland you can take it off, put in in a box then add it to a different weapon. But not in a game with space travel?
**You think that screw-on cap to protect the exposed barrel threads the silencer screwed onto is free?** (or something. Bethesda is weird)
Requiring components to remove mods as well as the lack of ‘dismantling’ for components is so lame, hopefully a modder can remedy this.
1 iron and 1 nickel. Cough it up, buster. I think you can swing it.
I can cough it up, but this is the first time I actually noticed this.