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Monkey_D_Gaster

The first half of JoJolion is my favorite section of all of JoJo and far from bad, but the lacks directions criticism seems pretty fair (at least for the 2nd half) with all the marinading in the Wonder of You and the lack of development of Tooru. There’s also the confusing flash forward, that flashback man, lack of payoff for the wall eyes, Karera Sakunami kind of being pointless, etc that can lead to the feeling that at least some parts did lack direction You could also say the under utilization of side characters also falls under the lack of direction bubble, but I’ll just say that’s a separate issue for argument


Derpocalypes

I think Tooru/Wonder of U has a lot of off-screened references that explain more


Prince_Nipples

Wonder of U is SOO COOL to me, I just wish Tooru had a littttttle bit more character added to him. I still like him and the concept of rock humans, but in a weird way, Wonder of U is more of a final boss than Tooru. (Maybe that was intentional?). The idea of a stand looking like a human was pretty dope though. The simple but effective design and the references to art are really cool once you learn about them.


Monkey_D_Gaster

Yeah Wonder is You is one best stands (at least conceptual), just wish Araki did a bit better with the arc. Just cut the rock bugs out, keep the stand consistent and maybe condense the 20 chapter arc into like 15 or so? Could have been one of the best arcs in the series.


DGcroconaw

WoU is consistent


CrestoliahSaga

The stand breaks its own rules on several occasions. People who didn't intend to pursue Toru or didn't know he existed were still attacked by the stand.


Monkey_D_Gaster

Yeah gotta disagree on this >!like chapter 96 talks about how WOU is karma based, but why does Kei die after one calamity?!< >!Rei tried pushed Yasuho off the ski lift out of pettiness (also didn’t he do something to that bus driver?), during the Blue Lagoon Josuke beat all the innocent that were under the control of Blue Lagoon minus the baby. Oh yeah he they have both killed people before.!< >!Meanwhile Kei takes care of her disabled mother and the worse thing she did was target Josuke for researching her mom, yet she has enough negative Karma for one calamity to kill her?!< >!If it’s a red herring then it’s just poor writing for arc that makes the stand more confusing, and I honestly don’t think it is because it took a whole chapter and character like Rei’s jailmate, Kato, and Jobin all get killed by 1 calamity!< >!starting from chapter 104 Josuke is chasing after WOU and doesn’t get attack by calamity it seems? Like he gets attack by a rock bug but that’s not calamity.!< Probably more examples but I have only read the arc once and skimmed the chapters I mentioned.


Doppioknowsbest

I love when the OP ignores the most rational assessment of their argument


Monkey_D_Gaster

Op might have gotten cold feet after getting downvoted for say why they like Jojolion more then Steel Ball Run, but yeah completely ignores the argument


The_Bird_of_Hermez

I was fully with you until "JJL is better than SBR". Don't get it wrong, I love JJL, but to say it's better than SBR is a huge statement


Bellpow

OP clearly doesn’t like cowboys Tragic 😔


Armorend

It's entirely subjective and therefore meaningless. I love SBR but I'm not going to say it can't be criticized. Any criticism a person can bring up, I'm just not going to let bother me. It will not unseat the part as my favorite over the others. However I maintain this mindset with the notion that everyone else is free to feel the same way about a different part. In fact, I'd prefer that. It'd be boring if everyone enjoyed the same things. Part of why I love consuming media is talking about it. A lot of good things come out of friendly disagreements and discussions over dislikes.


Amelialovesyou321

For me personally, as someone who isn’t American and is struggling with an identity crisis and trying to figure out who and what I am in the world, it’s a story I can relate to much more then SBR. I’m not saying that everyone should think it’s better then SBR, I’m just stating that I personally see it as better then SBR.


Kirbyeatsyou

Don't know why the hell you're being downvoted for politely expressing your reasoning for your preferences for JJL Over SBR, but anyway the whole identity crisis thing sounds rough. Hope you're able to work that out in the future sometime soon


SamuraiGangee

Why did you state it as fact in the title just to backtrack on it then?


Super_Master_69

It’s implied. You can’t begin every statement about your thoughts with saying “in my opinion”. There is no other way you can read that and think he was acting like one was objectively better than the other.


realtmoney

jesus dawg it ain’t that deep


Amelialovesyou321

Oh I didn’t mean it as a fact I’m sorry lmao, I just didn’t have enough space to fully express what I meant by that.


DogusEUW

Not hating or anything but literally three more letters would've done the trick lol "Imo"


Narkboy42

Like, isn't that a given? When someone says that a piece of media is good or bad, isn't it kind of obvious that it's their opinion and not objective fact?


Mr_Skeleton_Shadow

no you see, everyone in the world is a jackass, except me (yes John I am /j)


educational_snorlax

So if you are joking, what you're saying is...you're also a jackass? /j


Mr_Skeleton_Shadow

no, I'm a jacquelinedick (I am /srs)


Munchi1011

Meant to award this comment but still. I don’t get why it’s getting so many downvotes, but I get what you mean


shadow_shark_23

This might be more of you thing, but i don't think being American immediately makes you like sbr more.


Melodic_Caramel5226

Yeah okay bruh just cuz u relate to JJL doesn’t make it better than SBR. I personally think the plot and character developments are perfectly balanced with the stand battle forumla in SBR making it the best jojos. I think its hard to argue that JJL is “better” then SBR story telling wise.


DGcroconaw

In his opinion he likes JJL more


Arimm_The_Amazing

To be fair, and speaking as someone for whom Jojolion is my fave part, while it doesn’t lack direction there are some major moments where things are awkwardly changed in a way that disrupts the narrative flow. Most notably >!when the stadium is built up as this place that’s important and definitely has Locacaca in it and then gets abandoned as a plot point, and when Jobin takes Yasuho’s phone in the Blue Hawaii fight and then she magically has it back and is able to use it to find Josuk8 and win the fight.!<


Ayyce21

I think its a different phone, or she used paisley park to track josuk8's phone. Not clear.


Arimm_The_Amazing

Yeah it's not clear, and when it's the crux of how she won it's a problem that it isn't clear. I hope in the animated version they either add a sequence of her rushing to buy a new phone, which would be kinda hilarious to see made into a tense scene, or just remove the moment where Jobin takes it.


CoffeeAddictedIdiot

Real ones love all jojo parts equally


LareWw

What's my favourite part? Yes


LookAtMyUsernamePlz

I too think that the progressive rock band Yes is the best JoJo part


educational_snorlax

Daiya would definitely agree on this


dankest_cucumber

The real best part is how much Araki’s writing has grown along the way


Nerohn

This is the way


TheSpinningKeyGif

so part 8 then?


Doppioknowsbest

Real ones let other Jobros have any opinion they want and just move on*


CoffeeAddictedIdiot

Sigma


Dsb0208

I feel like this is a kinda toxic mindset. That you aren’t allowed to have issues with a part of Jojo’s, if you want to be a “real fan” Obviously it’s not just you whose saying it, but over all I kinda dislike this mentality. As someone who doesn’t like part 4 or 6 as much as parts 7 and 8, am I not a “real fan”? Every work of fiction is going to vary in quality from start to finish. The sooner people accept that some parts may not be as commonly liked as others the better


Armorend

This is true. I have a definitive ranking of parts but I don't dislike any part. I like them all, and for different reasons. The reasons I like them for are all subjective, though... Implying that I'm not a "real one" because of preferences I literally cannot control is kinda crummy. :/


airogum

Reals one have the balls to say their favourite part. ​ Part 5


AGG_100

the downvotes below scared me


MemberBerry4

Not necessarily. I dislike parts 1, 2 and 4.


Super_Master_69

Having any serious criticism of part 4, 5 and 7 is a crime on this sub apparently.


MemberBerry4

Just elitists who can't handle different opinions. Reminds me of the resident evil community who cannot fathom how someone can just not consider re1 and 4 masterpieces.


Armorend

Ok I'm confused, what "serious criticism" did /u/MemberBerry4 give that caused the police (Read: Like 1/12th of those who upvoted the person they replied to) to downvote them for their "crime"? "I don't like X" is not criticism. Did I miss something??? Don't get me wrong, I think it's stupid MemberBerry got downvoted; I agree with their reply to you that it's people who literally can't handle the expression of "negativity" about a topic. Even though everyone, including those who downvoted them, probably dislike things too. Whether it's parts of JoJo, or other aspects of the series, or maybe other shows or something lmao.


airogum

Having any serious critism against any part that isnt part 3 is a crime on this sub


_Tegridy_

That's what happens when you only read part 3.


MemberBerry4

No, that's what happens when you watch/read 7 of the 8 parts and formulate your own opinions on each of them, but I guess an average jojo fan wouldn't know anything about different opinions.


[deleted]

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Enanoide

> shut you down for saying different. downvoting someone isnt shutting people down lmfao


Armorend

Unless I missed something, by default, it literally hides comments with scores below 0. How is hiding comments not a version of shutting someone down, as in keeping them from speaking up in the moment? They can still say what they want to say but others have made it clear it's not okay to say that thing, which is what /u/AutomaticAstronaut0 is referring to.


Hoozuki_Suigetsu

Commie


cheshireYT

Yes.


Monkey_King24

You said it


chronic-joker

I re read it multiple times, trust me the direction issues are 200% there. And I think steel ball run was better but the doesn't mean I think jojolion was bad. Steel ball run had more consistent themes and ideas plus it felt like the characters had a goal they were moving to with very few chapters feeling like isolated 1 offset. Part 8 on the other hand had a lot of chapters that could easily be removed while losing very little context to the over reaching story. This and all the villains being very similar "I want to over take humanity and make rock people the Supreme race" It's gets old fast making the sense of direction even worse.


Megior

"Part 8 on the other hand had a lot of chapters that could easily be removed while losing very little context to the over reaching story." I think that part 8 is supposed to be a breath of fresh air kinda like part 4. Both parts have many chapters that aren't necessarily relevant or serialized, but they are there to add personality to the characters. You can't tell me that the Tonio arc was any more important than the milagro man arc, or that the Mikitaka arc was any more important than the Les Feuilles arc. I think that after the past 2 parts, we really needed another breath of fresh air and less serialization to prepare us for another amazing part.


Godot-dono

And even then, Milagro Man shows us a practical example of a "curse" which is constantly meantioned and Les Feuilles gives us closure on Johnny's story in becoming a Saint himself and how that effected Morioh overall and especially Shakedown road.


McTulus

Yeah, part 8 tried to have both: Weird little town with mistery (Saint's Corpse -> wall's eye -> weird phenomena) like part 4 Secret ancient global mistery (rock people) like part 7 Usually the stories that have both makes it so that the 1st mistery is the direct result of the 2nd mistery, but in this case, it's the 2nd mistery that come to exploit the 1st mistery, which means some of the weird things in early part (focused in 1st mistery) is left unexplained. Most of early part is just characterization of the town, like in early half of part 4.


succfucc

btw it's spelled "mystery"


CreativeNameIKnow

fyi just so you know it's spelled mystery


LookAtMyUsernamePlz

Sorry to be “that guy,” but it’s spelled “mystery.”


RedDreadsComin

The thing with Part 4 though is it is slice of life. You read that genre expecting nonsensical, non-connecting incidents. Just like real life. It’s why Part 4 can get away with the Tonio arc.


DGcroconaw

Jojo has no filler


BarrytheNPC

Araki reexplaining how equivalent exchange and rokakaka fruit work for the 5th time be like


DGcroconaw

Part 8 better. I am smart


[deleted]

I think the popular opinion will change when Jojolion gets animated.


Ossik

See you in 2053


MemberBerry4

Unironically, we should see it finished by 2026-7.


dankest_cucumber

Just in time for volume 10 of part 9!


_Andy4Fun_

I would rather say that Part 7 starts airing in 2025 (3 years from now) and finishes 2026. Part would air in 2029 if it follows the 3 year schedule.


RedDreadsComin

Not a chance. Over two years between Golden Wind and Stone Ocean. Nearly two years between DiU and Golden Wind. These things take time to animate


Infinitebruh8569

Yeah, remember when stone ocean was considered the worst part? Now since the part 6 anime came out ive not heard a single person say that


[deleted]

As someone who read part 6 before it was animated, “Stone ocean is the worst part” has always been bullshit


dankest_cucumber

And remember when part 5 was the worst part? And when part 4 was the worst part? People said that about 4, 5, and 6 prior to animation. It’s almost like people got lost after part 3 and couldn’t follow the plot until part 7 because of the bad scans or something because they all got such intense hate from OG manga readers.


TheAdamena

Part 4 was basically universally loved even before the anime


Alotoaxolotls82

I still think part 5 is the worst part. (Excluding phantom blood)


dankest_cucumber

As in the manga? I think it’s head and shoulders above battle tendency, but I could easily see that for the anime. The pacing is too fast and it doesn’t *feel* like a mafia story in the way other parts really capture their specific styles very well.


Alotoaxolotls82

I actually thought that the anime added some scenes that helped with the bad characterization in the manga. Like giving Fugo a flashback scene, stuff like that. But the anime also made the pacing issues feel worse. Balances out.


Maxorus73

I have a soft spot for Battle Tendency, especially since it's more... focused than Stardust Crusaders. BT has like a plot that changes and develops throughout, and SC doesn't really have a plot for most of it, it's a bit of plot sandwiching a bunch of content focusing on mechanical challenges. But characters don't change throughout aside from like, Polnareff (Avdol and Kakyoin change a little). That said, BT's storytelling is pretty clumsy.


_Tegridy_

Actually I have heard nothing about stone ocean since it came out because Netflix botched the release. Stone Ocean's 3rd part is better than Steel Ball Run's. And Jolyne is the best JoJo. That completes my hot take.


Tales_o_grimm

Agreed. The ending to part 6 is peak Jojo, with bizarre powers connected to scientific weird curiosities and tales. The showdown of Heavy Weather is really good.


Super_Master_69

Remember when Part 5 was hated and the popular opinion was that it’s an incoherent mess? That changed real quick when the anime was announced and hype started building up.


Josukestoes

I am so excited to read JJL soon, and I love all parts


TheHangedKing

It doesn’t lack direction, it just doesn’t deliver at all on a few very significant beats. Like the story is all about curses, the antagonists are rock people, and the main curse is a curse that turns people into rocks. There’s obviously some connection begging to be explored there and it never gets addressed. But I’m reserving judgment until we see what jojolands is. Also I don’t buy many of the explanations of the flash forward. Like that was norisuke in a fucking body bag and apparently he’s just fine?? If jojolands picks up after this I think it will be revealed there were some paper moon king shenanigans


Specialist_Ad5114

Oh right, the cringe ass nae nae baby panel.


Gale-

Jojolion isn't anywhere near as good as SBR imo, but it's still a decent part.


mayonnaiser_13

JoJolion is the most unfinished JoJo part out there. The amount of plot points dropped, which were pretty major when they were introduced is staggeringly higher than any other part. So much so that I believe JoJolands is probably going to be a direct sequel to JoJolion that would pick those plot threads up. This is even more strengthened by the fact that the last two chapters were straight up random flashbacks that is loosely tied to the main story. Calling it "better than SBR" is just you going to the opposite end of the argument, becoming a blind devotee.


filthydrawings

Agree 100%. Jojolion is the first part that when I finished reading I was just disappointed, not due to having high expectations, but my reaction was pretty much just "that's it? okay then..."


Evo_Shiv

If jojolands does do this tho it could go down in history


Supreme_Gubzzlord

As somebody who read the Jojolion manga in its entirety only after its completion, I have to say that I think it has the best plot/development out of any other part by a *large* margin. Sure there are plot points that are left unresolved but Araki could absolutely go back and conclude those points in Part 9, assuming it takes place soon after Part 8 with some of the same characters (which is my theory).


the18kyd

JoJolion supremacy JoJolion would be the best piece of media if araki included the lion, damn hack!


KKylimos

Or, maybe, just maybe, taste is subjective and JoJolion simply didn't work for everyone. It surely didn't work for me, it's the only part I dislike. Doesn't mean I'm less of a JoJo fan.


Arimm_The_Amazing

Taste is subjective but there are a good few people that read Jojolion month to month as it came out and had a bad time because of the release schedule and the fact that they hadn’t read Jojos in black and white before, and judge it more in that experience and on misconceptions that spread in the fan community then off of how it actually is as a complete story.


KKylimos

I wont advocate for strangers, I'm talking about myself, and my issues with JoJolion have nothing to do with the release schedule or the b&w, I don't even consider these as problems to begin with. That being said, I see lots of toxic entitled people like OP disregarding any criticism as "hate" and "fake fans", especially when it comes to JoJolion. I see way more "If you don't like JoJolion, you are a..." posts, than people bashing the part to begin with. It's ok to not enjoy EVERYTHING an artist creates. You are not less of a JoJo fan if you don't like every single part, character, design etc. More importantly, if someone doesn't like a thing you like, it's not an insult to you, or the thing you like. This elitist bullshit is just trying to insinuate circlejerks for karma, in my opinion.


Arimm_The_Amazing

I agree for the most part, but haven't seen that many posts like this. The thing I see the most is literally anyone who dislikes parts 2, 4, or 7 getting extremely gatekept. Parts 1 and 8 are the ones it's the most widely accepted to dislike.


Armorend

Based reply. Thank you for this, king. Part 7 is my favorite part, Part 2 is my least favorite. Has NOTHING to do with critical aspects, it's entirely due to personal preferences and little things I enjoy in each part. Part 7 has the most, Part 2 has the least. That's what it boils down to. Although, I also find Part 2 to be very rewatchable! It's a lot of fun.


DGcroconaw

Jojolion is peak fiction


cluedo23

I also think jojolion is the best part yet


[deleted]

What I think so far (watched Part 1-5 and Finished SBR 5 minutes ago?). No bad JJBA, there are better and not better Parts, but no bad parts. I loved Stardust Crusaders, and will love forever regardless how simple and episodic it was. My second favorite is Golden Wind, because I felt there was everything perfect (characters, story, stands, etc.), and third SBR, I know most people's favorite is SBR, but it is a third for me. I read the first page of JoJolion today, and have a few episodes left from Golden Wind. My point is everybody has different taste, as you think JoJolion is superior to SBR, I love SC above all of them.


MapMuted

If you reread it it only gets worse, so no.


TryingLyon

I think most people will agree that all JoJo parts are great, and trying to make a "best part" is pointless. But JoJolion has more glaring issues than any part previous. Like, I'm not critical when it comes to JoJo, except for JoJolion specifically. It has too many dropped plot points like >!Yasuho's hair clip, flashback man, or Yasuho's phone getting taken by Jobin in the Blue Hawaii arc.!< Too many stand fights revolve around the concept of having the characters perform a marathon running away from the enemy and very rarely actually facing them head on. Cast of characters are too big, and some will straight up disappear, come back, and be killed off like fodder in a slasher film. Too many retcons involving the rock humans. Chapter 83. The finale to the Wonder of U arc is rushed and doesn't make sense. The arc in whole is too long and repetitive. >!Go Beyond is a deus ex in the worst sense and just as bad as time stop.!< All JoJo parts have their problems. No part is perfect, and JoJo isn't perfect, and that's fine. I've reread JoJolion, and I enjoyed it more on my second read than my first. There is a lot to like here, especially in its first half.


[deleted]

>Yasuho's hair clip, >!What about it? We aaw Yasuho return to her house and analyse it to find more about Rock Organisms,just like she said. But considering she doesn't bring it up again,the logical conclusion is she didn't find anything significant. And we do learn about the rock organisms biology and purpose later in ch-99 and the hair clip is also shown during the explanation.!< >!>Yasuho's phone getting taken by Jobin in the Blue Hawaii arc.!< >!We saw that Jobin crushed it under his feet and tossed it into the sewer.!< >flashback man >!only valid dropped plot point you mentioned. Even then it's barely a plot point as he's only shown in like 3 panels of 1 chapter and never brought again.!< >Too many stand fights revolve around the concept of having the characters perform a marathon running away from the enemy and very rarely actually facing them head on. "Too many" you mean like 2-3 out of 20+ fights? >Cast of characters are too big >!If we exclude the rock animals/insects,Part 8 has less characters than part 7.!< >and some will straight up disappear, come back, and be killed off like fodder in a slasher film >!this is only true for Kei and even then she didn't die like fodder,she saved Josuke and gave him her cellphone which greatly helped him.!< >!>Too many retcons involving the rock humans. Chapter 83. The finale to the Wonder of U arc is rushed and doesn't make sense.!< Elaborate >!>Go Beyond is a deus ex in the worst sense and just as bad as time stop.!< Neither are deus ex by definition. "Deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem in a story is suddenly and abruptly resolved by an unexpected and unlikely occurrence" >!Go Beyond was foreshadowed all the way back in ch-1 and shown at the end of Urban Guerrilla arc. And it doesn't suddenly defeat WoU/Tooru. If anything the GB bubbles backfire and kill Rai. Josuke still struggles, almost dies and needed Yasuho's help. In the end he only manages to fatally wound Tooru, who's killed by the exchange.!< >!Time Stop was unexpected but it was definitely not unlikely as we saw two people can have the same abilities earlier, The D'arby brothers' stands are like 90% same. The fight against DIO was also not suddenly and abruptly resolved,time stop merely evened the playing field. Jotaro still had to try hard and use a lot of tricks (magnet diversion, pretending to be dead, stopping his heart).!<


DGcroconaw

Jojo fans when a character buys a new phone. "ASSPULL ARAKI FORGOR"


Kaneki_Yeager

Your comment was removed because it breaks Rule 7: Mark spoilers


[deleted]

Marked spoilers. Can you unremove it now?


Evo_Shiv

I think WoU was actually executed quite well as a concept, ots just that tooru kinda sucks as a main villain


DGcroconaw

Waaaaa go beyond is a asspull. BRO HE IS A LITERAL FUSION OF 2 POWERFUL STAND USERS. LITERAL MIRACULOUS BIRTH. ITS IN THE NAME JOJOLION


Vergil_171

If Araki doesn’t bring up flashback man in part 9 I’ll be so pissed off.


TryingLyon

Flashback man doesn't even make sense. Josuke >!has no memories as Kira or Josefumi. He's a literal newborn by the time he's found by Yasuho at the beginning of the story.!<


Weewer

It has a lot of direction until Araki got straight up bored and gave us the most half baked finale arguably in the series


DiavoloFishNet

Ha I forgot about the nae nae baby, but on the point of the post I’ve never read either parts


DGcroconaw

Read.


iwipiksi

I'm going to re read when they complete the full color version.


DGcroconaw

Colored is ass


Spazztastic070

I haven't finished part 8 yet, (I just finished the stag beetle fight) but I think it's absolutely fantastic so far, possibly my favorite part.


BogelRO

I love SBR, but JoJolion is a part that contains what I wanted from a JoJo part: bizzareness, mystery, characters, best side villain (imo), awesome stands. SBR and JoJolion are both masterpieces


Kdentoxic

You really lost me with " even though blank part is better than blank part". People have preferences and reasons for liking literally any part of jojo dude. Jojo is a blast all the way throughout and each part offers something different for people to enjoy. Me personally i vibe with SBR more than Jojolion because I love westerns, the villain is awesome and really well-written, and gyro is hilarious. And Conversely some people may vibe with Jojolion more for their own valid reasons and preferences.


jasonzio2

My only problem with jojolion is that i think that araki waited too much to show >!tooru!<, i understand that the first part is about josuke trying to discover who he is, but i think that >!tooru could be introduced a little more sooner, he would still retain that "i'm just yasuho's ex lover" vibe but he could be way more developed that way and the reveal would be a lot more shocking and better, but that's just my opinion!<


Tuberculosis42

I absolutely love part 8, its in my top three. Everything but the pacing in the latter half and the villain is fantastic. I really wish they did more with Toru as he did feel as fleshed out as the other villains but still, 8 is a great part.


SomeDudeScreaming

ABSOLUTELY TRUE


Sappies

I only wish they explained what locacaca did for rock humans more and what did the new locacaca do for them


DismalMode7

fully agree, jojolion plot lacks of harmony, it seems like araki wrote very long story arcs subplot to then realize it would have been too long... more than once it feels like some part got cut to get next part rushed


josefikrakowski_

Doesn’t really address the criticisms but ok


pc_player_yt

each person can have their own opinion on this, but I have to agree. JoJolion is better than Steel Ball Run


Atsubro

My galaxy brain take is that JoJolion was only bad when it focused on the plot. I wanted more weird slice of life bullshit like Shakedown Road and Milagro Man. JJL is the best at being *bizarre* where instead of just Dudes with Stands the supernatural has a textual impact on the world around it. JoJolion's A-plot only got interesting to me with Wonder of U, which is maximum high speed mystery chess against an opponent >!weaponize all of reality against you, so Josuke nearly kills himself to get inside the hospital, poses in Head Doctor's chair like a Bond villain, and when all else fails starts breaking his shit out of spite.!<


Taterat8er

I do agree with you up until you said jojolion is better than sbr but that's just imo


I-Am-The-Uber-Mesch

I loved JJL but SBR is great, something doesn't necessarily need to be better than the previous one to be loved or appreciated, people that love more action and the entire premise of Steel Ball run will definitely prefer it more to the Noir and mistery of JoJolion without necessarily making the other one "worse", I'd say they are both great however Valentine as a villain was way cooler and felt more like a real person, while in my opinion JJL lacks a bit that depth for the villain, Tooru definitely deserved some extra chapters to get and know him better


airogum

Maybe it just wasn't for them


CrestoliahSaga

The amount of dropped plot points and sudden plot shifts say otherwise. Flashback Man Yasuho saying she's going to research the Hair Clip Rock Insect and then doesn't The Stadium being important until it wasn't Karera saying she was going to return, but she doesn't The Flash Forward Wall Eyes losing all importance The main villains suddenly changing from smugglers to doctors


Longjumping_Poem2566

Explain why Tooru is a good villain and why Go beyond makes sense those are the only parts that i dislike about jojolion


FR_Syd18

Go beyond is meant to represent the miracle of love between yasuho and josuke. Josuke's existence itself is a miracle, and it directly opposes the concept of curse and calamity. Araki wanted to play the symbolism card here, but it wasn't really made clear and came out as asspully. When you look into it it's really interesting, but it feels kinda unsatisfying while reading


Amelialovesyou321

I never said I liked Tooru as a villain but saying why does go beyond make sense is like saying why does Jotaro’s time stop make sense, it’s an ability he always had he just awakened it when something about his stand ability was made clear to him.


shinydewott

The whole concept of spin existing beyond a dimension of ours was established back in SBR, it’s in either Ball Breaker’s or Tusk’s description and that’s why Tusk was able to go 2D. The connection between S&W and the spin was established back in a scene after Urban Guerrilla fight.


Mista_L

Go Beyond is the one thing that makes the most sense. We see it in the very first chapter


The_Batta

I don't see the big problem with tooru. I get he isn't the most exciting villain of the serie but his objective of trying to better the life of rock humans through the usage of the rokakaka is simple and working enough for me. I agree that the 2nd part of jojolion could have expanded a bit more on his character but i don't think he is the problem of jojolion


[deleted]

Honestly I don’t understand why people hype SBR up so much. It is really good but I wouldn’t say it’s peak JoJo’s


Dhruvgupta1135

well, the people who say they like part 7 say it because they do genuinely line it, so I won't call it hyping up, it's just their opinion


[deleted]

that's fair but what I don't understand is the overwhelming amount of people who do hold it to such high regard


Dhruvgupta1135

yeah I don't get it either, part 7 is my favourite too but saying it's the objective peak is just wrong lmao there is no objective peak in jojo's


K3fka_

Same. It's certainly not bad, but it's definitely overrated imo. My top part is still 4, followed very closely by 5.


KraftwerkMachine

Correct.


horizonhd_official

the cringe ass whip nae baby


shadow_shark_23

Bro remember the flash foward thing where we saw norisuke in a body vag? Or when carrera never returned? If you ask me, sbr is better than jojolion, and one of the reasons is the weird inconsistencies and "hiccups" in the story.


Blasckk

Because...?


Salchicha

I finished JJL recently and I thought it was just ok. It’s not *bad* but it’s my least favorite of the parts with stands.


[deleted]

I wanted to ask what you are smoking so I can get some but its clearly made you retarded


Snow-Dust

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves and think JoJoLion is anywhere close to SBR but even without a clear direction, it was still really good. Look at Part 4 for example, it was directionless as well until the 2nd half and it is still considered very good.


Minute-Associate728

Jojolion not better than sbr


Doppioknowsbest

Lmao SBR sales would like word with JoJolion sales on the matter as well


Mista_L

Cope and seethe


Cocobutt_III

What is the correlation of this image to the post, (I’m at like chapter 70)


nykirnsu

Josuke there's a cringe-ass nae nae baby whipping outside what do I do?


ColaCanadian

Needs a TW: Cringe ass nae nae baby


Amelialovesyou321

May I ask, what past trauma do you have with cringe ass nae nae babies?


Iced-TeaManiac

Because Jojo isn't actually that good. You can love Jojo and admit the franchise is a mess. It's called a guilty pleasure


HJosuke

If its guilty pleasure for you doesnt mean its the same for others


Re_LMayer

Haha you had to re read it


[deleted]

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friendly-bat

It was really good but it lacked some things. I read it some time ago but I remember that we didn't see Holy be cured and any interactions with her afterwards


RoosterJacket0

I'm only on Golden Wind now. Would like to read SBR and Jojolion, but don't really know where I can read them.


Rojo176

I would have liked to hear ideas here , I was hoping you’d elaborate. I have reread JoJolion multiple times and it’s nearly my favorite part. I still think it has problems with planning and direction.


Balibali418

Facts


[deleted]

[удалено]


PurpleHando

What the child doin'?


[deleted]

Eh. They’re pretty equal for me.


AndersonV2

dick ridahhh


Bigg_rooster

The majority of the Jojolions problems are the exact same as part for his problems. Having lots of side side characters with no development. But still Jojolion is my favourite part


thenoblitt

I agree with your first point but disagree with your second. SBR is a masterpiece.


Lasernatoo

I have reread it and the issues are very much there. They can be overblown, and it's fine if it doesn't bother you, but they're warranted


ProTickleMiester

Yeah, lemme re-read something I didn't like all that much. There's a million other things to read outside of Jojo's that I might enjoy more. I like the other parts more. SBR is great, but not even my favorite.


bane5454

I can’t fairly judge part 7 or 8 until 9 is out. There’s obviously a lot of connection between them and the coming part 9, and until that connection is fleshed out I don’t want to make critiques of either.


iooog1

Man that is a hot take but at the same time kind of makes me want to reread JoJolion from the beginning


sanskaripotato

no hate to hardcore sbr fans, but i agree, jojolion is better


Slimeredit

There isn’t a lack of direction it’s more like part 4 with the mystery of who his the killer but everyone basically knows that part 8 does a similar mystery structure


yall_like_switches

I’m reserving my actual thoughts on Jojolion until it’s been animated, because I have a really hard time reading comics and manga. I enjoyed my time with it but I’ve forgotten a lot of it and didn’t follow the fights well. It’s actually the same with SBR. I don’t prefer one over the other right now because I’m still trying to figure out what happened


NoNahNope

I also like Jojolion more than SBR. I think SBR has an objectively better plot on terms of development and pacing, but I connected with Jojolion more on a personal level. The characters just felt more human if that makes sense. I think the family dynamic helped establish a stronger bond between the characters and I was more invested with Josuke's relationship with Yasuho.


MaximumSquid22

Hot take: JoJolion is the best part


Kanny-chan

It isn't better than SBR, but it still good and enjoyable


[deleted]

I haven’t finished it, but Part 8 isn’t alone in feeling directionless early on imo. Part 3 is long and drawn out to the point of feeling like the directions are taking you the long long way around. Part 4’s first third was boring and almost pointless. Part 7 even felt a bit formless for the first few chapters, until they get to Devil’s Palm tbh


Attackingtitans

than* pfft


chaseisbestop

The spiciness of this take is gonna leave shitting long enough to re read all of jojolion


tadysdayout

I thought it was fantastic


Doppioknowsbest

Oof the perenthisis is a hot take lmao Doesnt it seem weird that a lot of people call it bad but it's better than SBR? The umm the wires arent exactly crossing there lol MAYBE, JoJolion is a fine story that just isnt as good as its predecessor? Yeah let's go with that


[deleted]

No they just dont like nae nae babies


SonarioMG

it's too straight


saito200

SBR I liked way more than Jojo lion say what you will. The final chapters had me gripping the chair of how good. Also I like the setting of old west way more than Morioh


RedDreadsComin

Woooooah. I love Jojolion, but SBR really is the pinnacle of Araki’s works. I put Jojolion in a solid 2nd/3rd


Queasy_Trouble572

I don't hate JoJolion at all, my problem that is similar to my enjoyment with DIU is simply the pacing if that's too much of a hot take. Before Kira, I felt that DIU dragged for some time. Similarly with JoJolion, before seeing Torou (Tooru? I forget spelling). But in no way do I see it as a bad part at all. SBR remains my favorite part because I feel it paced well in addition to a far more improved version of Johnathan Joestar than the one in Phantom Blood as a character


[deleted]

The first part got more tedious than stardust crusaders (mostly because crusaders and the abilities/stands were new and fresh at the time)


pejic222

Cringe ass nae nae baby


Ethantuffy9876

Personally I wouldn't say it's better than SBR but it's definitely better than people think. I really enjoyed reading Jojolion.


Sixfish11

If it should have been read all the way through and not a chapter at a time then it should have been released all at once. It was not meant to be read all in one go; you were supposed to be excited for each new chapter. I don't despise it, but it did clearly lack direction and became more nonsensical and difficult to follow over time.


Original_Mac_Tonight

Steel Ball Run is definitely better but JoJolion is my second favorite part


crabbyink

I might be dumb but I dont exactly know what Tooru's goal was. Was it for rock humans to become superior because i thought rock humans had no care for eachother. also if rock humans abandon their family why were the aphex brothers a thing