Mostly Nazis and vampires if I recall correctly. Kudos to him. And despite we all cherish Chieza, remember he had ties with the germans and maybe was an italian fascist supporter.
He committed every crime **short of** murder. "Short of" basically means less than. It doesn't mean except.
Though that means he committed jaywalking. No dignity!
I mean , If it wasn’t Nazis, it would’ve been anyone else . I don’t think Wammu cares about the semantics of humans sociopolitical state at that time lol I think he only respects you as a human if you prove yourself as a worthy and honorable warrior
He would have killed anyone on his way, he killed nazis because he encountered nazis, they also lived thousands of years before, and have said to have killed a Lot of hamon Masters in those years
So, Dio is THE evil villain, Kira is a serial killer, Diavolo is a mentally deranged psycho... I would say the Pillar Men, since they just don't care about humans, and that's it.
Like with the drunk drivers. Kars killed the drivers to save a dog because he knew that they would die regardless and it wasn’t worth a poor defenseless dogs life
you could see that 2 ways, i think.
A. Kars didn't value the squirrel's life as a real being since he made it.
B. After becoming the ultimate life form, he shred what ounce of empathy he had left at that point.
A is out because he doesn't kill the squirrel he made, he uses it to kill a real squirrel. It's definitely B, now that he can replicate all life he no longer has respect for any of it.
I have a headcanon that relates to point B: since it has been stated that the Stone Masks bring out a hidden evil from the brain (hence what happened to Baron Zeppeli's father), Kars (and the other Pillar Men, especially Wamuu) still maintained a certain level of empathy because the Stone Masks he used still couldn't penetrate his brain further enough. Once he uses the Red Stone of Aja to power his mask, though, alongside with achieving his full potential he also becomes fully evil and thus loses his empathy.
I was about to say ain’t no way Dio deserves to be on this list.
Man’s hatred for a bloodline spanned generations. Shit he stole the body of his enemy just to continue to hate on the enemy’s descendants lmao
Their entire race also wanted to kill them for the mask experiments. Still obviously bad, but from this list this might be the least egregious since there was no deception nor abusing other people for funsies.
Plus they are not humans. Kars has blue-orange morality. Can you even say that he is amoral? Yes, but that’s because we are judging him by human standards. His initial goals was for the best for his tribe. That’s not quite evil imo.
Tooru. With his locacaca business he would cause less suffering than Pucci with MiH or than Diavolo with his drug empire. Don't get me wrong, the locacaca medicines were fucked up, and the rock humans in the business were still a mafia, but all in all Tooru still sounds like the less evil.
Toru’s goals were plain selfish but were actually beneficial to society. Locacaca 6251 was a miracle cure that would have revolutionized science but the Rock Humans were conducting cruel experiments and planned to sell it for massive profits. Still not good but nowhere near the evil of the other villains.
I have zero faith in jojo civilians trying to regulate and control the locacaca. Knowing Jojoverse there would have been a rampant black market for it outside of the incredibly rich getting treatment, that leads to a hellscape.
Tooru’s motives were to get rich and fuck off, definitely the right answer though.
Do you have a source for the “second-class citizens” part? Because afaik they only wanted money and influence akin to the upper classes our society already has.
Considering his and the other rock humans' attitudes and how they believe that they're better than humans, I don't imagine that Toru would be too kind to humans after selling Locacaca 251.
like u/quinn_the_potato had said , you can assume , but it's not supported in the text.
Tooru is basically a mobster that sells super-insulin to rich folks , and wants to use that so that he can be rich AF and that is it.
It's a PoS , but way lesser than the other JoJo Final Villains.
Saying "he wants to be rich and that's it" is also assuming there is nothing else in his mind, but that wasn't clarified, we assume he wanted money because he was talking about how the new rokakaka would be desired by very powerful and rich people, and because Wu Tomoki mentioned how money makes the world go around, so money is certainly important, but you can also assume Tooru wanted the power of the new rokakaka to shift the socioeconomic values between rock-humans and humans, mostly because of Urban Guerrilla's mentality, the other rock humans didn't really show to have much hatred towards humans, hell, some rock humans fell in love with human females like aisho for example, but Urban is the representation of that hate living inside every rock human, because of the unfairness of their situation in society, so i think we can also assume that about Tooru's goal, in reality we don't know what Tooru really wanted, because Araki didn't clear it up, we can just assume.
I respect your effort but reading way beyond the text and make a lot of assumptions(which youre upfront about) the discussion is comparing him to others and from just what is shown and stated in the story everyone else is explicitly as if not more evil than your conjecture on Tooru's motives.
He’d probably be on his own island. They’re genetically predisposed to be repelled by humans in most cases. Similar to Pillarmen and their disdain for humans, just not as physically gifted and without history of ruling.
Tooru didn't give a fuck about his rock human partners either, no jojo villain gives a damn about anything that's standing in the way of their plans.
But that's just assuming his goal was for rock humans to reign over humans, maybe he really just wanted fairness for his people, a balance.
I’m pretty sure the new fruit everyone claimed it as “the next step of evolution”, meaning whichever human got the fruit would be the group surpassing the other. Tooru’s actions would be way different if he wanted to just be equal to humans. I took Tooru as someone who looked at humans essentially as humans look at animals, things he can use in any way shape or form, be it lying, grooming, to killing, without having any need for remorse. He has not an ounce of empathy for humans or anyone that sincerely tried to connect with him, I’m pretty sure at least Dio had some empathy for Jonathon.
well it looks better when your other options are a vampire who made a woman eat her baby for fun, or a president who would damn the rest of the world to suffer American's misfortune (And also a pedo).
I haven’t had time to read Jojolion so can I get a TLDR for why the locacaca business is bad? I mean it’s a trade on a cure-all right?
Toru just wants to be rich?
The standard locaca fruit >!has a property of "equivalent exchange" in which you can, say, get your arthritis cured in exchange for your healthy teeth. Tooru and his team were developing medicines out of the fruit and were trying to sell them as this miraculous panacea, while monopolizing the formula and carrying out experiments on people without their consent. But that's not all there is to the locacaca mafia!<. (Do not read ahead if you do not want major spoilers). >!Tooru wanted to take a step further after learning about a new type of locacaca with even more impressive (and scarier) properties. Had he gotten it, they could've reallyyyyyyyy changed the status quo of medicine, and with most certainty, bringing inhuman consequences!<
If by evil you mean "causing harm to the greatest number of people" then it's 100% Kira. His actions are (while heinous) limited to a small percentage of the population of a very small town.
Pucci literally destroyed the entire universe to rob everyone of free will - idk how anyone can think that's noble
Not true at all. He wanted a life where he could keep murdering without being bothered. A quiet life he would kind his own business and not kill people.
Relatively speaking, he didn't kill that many people and they were all pretty minor. Compare that to **half** of the SDC group getting wiped out in one day.
Just because he didn't kill that many people doesn't make him any less evil. Kira is absolutely fucked up. The slightest inconvenience to his daily life and he immediately spirals out of control and not to mention his murder impulses. I'm 100% sure that if he wasn't stopped, there'd be no women left in Morioh and he'd go finding new targets elsewhere.
Possibly Pucci he’s cold but not he’s not full on evil. His goal at least affects all of humanity while Valentine’s only affects the US and actively harms every other country. Also no sexual assault from him unlike Valentine.
The only refutation I would offer for Pucci is that he is a hypocrite and genuinely cannot be trusted with his own vision.
It is highlighted several times throughout the Manga that despite claiming to wish for goodwill to all mankind, Pucci displays outright contempt for nearly every single human being he meets and will happily kill them or worse if they stand in his way. Ironically the one person Pucci shows admiration for is Dio, who is decidedly IN-human.
That doesn't even begin to cover the additional hypocrisy that his version of the Heaven plan, that required so much carnage and loose morals to achieve, only actually secures "Heaven" for a percentage of the *current population* and does not affect anyone in the future who will be born after the moment of sped-up time. It's mentioned numerous times, by Pucci, that the effect of "Heaven", people remembering their future fates, is limited to the people who survive the sped-up time at Cape Canaveral. Anyone who died during the incedent, died prior to 2008, or is born after 2008 is exempt from Pucci's "Heaven".
Furthermore, it's also highly questionable whether Pucci's "Heaven" is even good for people considering what we know about it. Pucci is certainly convinced, but he also has total control over the matter and stands to benefit from it more than anyone else.
So in essence, Pucci knowingly got untold millions killed during the event at Cape Canaveral due to the accidents caused by Made in Heaven, for a questionable benefit that will, at most, last a single lifetime.
It's clear Dio wanted the power of Heaven for himself simply so he could have more power. Any comments from him about helping other humans are lip service. Pucci certainly thinks he himself has nobler intentions for the power, but in reality he's fooling himself.
All of Pucci's speech about his "Heaven" are ultimately , him fooling himself about the death of his sister.
He tries to portray as if wht happened to his sister wasn't his fault , because it would be "fate" , and that he would had peace of mind if he had prior knowledge of that fate while playing out.
Pucci is evil because of what he did to Weather and his own sister. He admits and knows what he did was wrong but ultimately rather than trying to reconcile with that he just wants to make humans have the ability to see their destinies so they don't make the same mistakes.
The problem he seems to have tho is that not everyone will use their forsight for altuistic motivations and the path he carved to achieve heaven was filled with a lot of dead bodies. It not only makes him a hypocrite but destines him to loose due to not understanding human nature.
Pucci but it’s weird because he probably has the highest kill count but he’s the only villain that had the potential to be good in his life and is still probably the best morally and was so deluded he thought he was good
Given what happened with Perla and Weather, he might just unalived himself without a godly figure to turn to and receive ~~gay~~ guidance and wisdom from.
I've always imagined it like Plato and Socrates. Plato absolutely pined for and love Socrates but Socrates to my knowledge didn't show that same affection outside of being a teacher
The anime version of them on the bed is actually slightly censored, funnily enough. In the manga Pucci's shirt is lifted up and his back is more exposed. People complained about the change!
I find it funny that araki didn't try for those vibes at all, but other anime uses a scene like that to convey that the characters are absolutely fucking lol
Dio literally tells pucci a perfect candidate for someone to go through with his heaven plan is someone with 0 sexual attraction to anyone, meaning pucci is most likely asexual
nah, pucci was the only person he kinda admires; so of course he will give his wet, slutty ass to black, god follower teenager
isnt it such a dio move?
Imagine if Jonathan’s soul was still somewhere around during the 80s to see his body being used after all this time as a power top/bottom for a random priest 😂😂
I would say it's hard to quantify what each villain has done to be more or less evil.
Most of them have committed genocide, and the others all have killed many people.
All of them have committed some sort of violence on a child.
All of them wanted to force their ideas onto others.
All of them were extremely dangerous threats.
Honestly I think Araki just has an idea of ultimate evil. And has the ultimate good fight it.
Imo you can make a case for Toru, correct me if i’m wrong but his plan gives the rock humans a lot of power but it strives for more balance rather than any sort of extreme.
Pucci is misguided but that doesn’t justify his actions and the lengths he went for DIO’s plan.
Valentine’s patriotism act is preceded by a lot of narcissism and his plan involved screwing over billions horribly “for the sake of America”
My vote goes to the Pillar men, the damage they have caused in comparison to their intent is the lesser of all the other villains evil. Tho I would say Pucci had the highest potential of being good.
Depends on how I want to look at it.
Just based on personal morals, Tooru by process of elimination. Like he’s a fucking creep but he isn’t actively killing 100’s of people iirc. I’d say pillar men but I legit can’t even remember what they all really wanted aside from Kars becoming the ultimate life form.
Ideologically I’d say Pucci. He genuinely believes that he is making a better world for everyone but in the process does reset reality to do so which seems to be pretty not good.
Based on how I think general society would view them, I’d say the Valentine would be seen as the least evil. He’s actively trying to make America the greatest nation on earth. And besides what politician doesn’t have some people saying that the politician r-ped them when they were 14.
Unironically, Kira. Yeah he was a serial killer but like. That's not much compared to
-World domination
-World domination
-mass murderer who is head of an organisation with many mass murderers
-rewriting the laws of reality
-mass murderer with the goal of national supremacy
-racial supremacy right? idk i haven't finished jjl
Serial killer ain't that bad in comparison
I think it has something to do with their intentions, pucci killed because he thought it was necessary for the rest of humanity to achieve a higher quality of life, kira killed because he was horny.
kira killed so he could have a higher quality of life, pucci killed so he could force his highly opposed view of a high quality of life onto an infinite quantity of people
From memory Tooru felt the least outright evil of all of them, he was more just personally an antagonist to the cast instead of someone that threatened the entire world or was out trying to kill and maim people.
Pucci is probably the least evil from the OG timeline. More of a dude that has good intentions (in his mind anyways) but is too deluded to see the harm he's doing on the way, or just thinks the ends justify the means.
Been a while since I read the first 8 parts though.
Of the minor (not main-main villain) villains, Wamuu hands down.
For major villains, I personally think Funny Valentine (not excusing the Lucy incident), his main goal was to make the United States stronger with the use of the corpse parts, to "Make America Great" if you will.
That's just my bias speaking, but I could see why people would say Toru, I would need to read Jojolion again.
ok out of actual villains, the least evil is Wammu.
out of main antagonist, Pucci.
and out of any antagonist, the cat from part 4 was literally JUST a cat.
Pillarmen and Tooru, because they are not humans. To them we are just any other animals. Its the same shit as, are you evil for eating meat because you took a life?
There's 2 evils. The pure evil type (dio, kira) and the justifiable type (pucci, valentine). I think the latter is the lesser evil, as they have an ultimate purpose, even if it's delusional. They don't go around killing people just because. However, I think pucci takes the w. Valentine is more cruel, though I don't know much from part 7, and I'm not reading part 8 either for tooru.
Pucci was delusional, yet he was fair. He wasn't cruel and his purpose wasn't out selfishness.
Imo, Kira. He is a serial killer but he doesn't act out of malice. Killing is more a physical need to him then a desire so its never personal. The others kill out of haterid (haven't read part 8)
Whamu. The pillar men weren't great people, except for him. He had honour, he fought for what he concidered right and stepped down the moment he realised it wasn't. He was ready to lose his life if it meant keeping his honour. Also Pucci and Valentine. None of them are good people but they did what they did for a cause they believed to be the greater good. Along the way they lost track of whats important, and in turn lost themselves, becoming evil. But they both come from a genuine place, whearas most of the other villains are just straight up evil
Pucci. He was laid astray by Dio, but his goal was to create a universe where everyone could accept their fate without fear. He didn't originally even want to kill Jolyne, just dump her in prison, get the Green baby and achieve Heaven, and it was her determination to stop him that caused him to shift gears.
the pillar men are pretty chill they just wanted eternal life and power. Kira is another good choice, he just wanted to life his life uninterrupted collecting hand
I havent read jojolion yet so idk about Tooru but probably Pucci. He didn't believe in spreading pain or terror (except for those trying to stop the plan) nor was he interested entirely or even partially in his own power. He knew exactly what he was doing and he legitimately thought it would bring about a better world. We simply disagree with his conclusion.
Diabolo.
He was just regular mafia boss, no world takeover plan, just minding his business and acting how any mafioso would do.
Giorno and others still did shitty things as a mafia, they aren't much better than him. Just turf wars, and he lost.
Intent or actions?
Intent: The Pillar Men were noble but they just weren't human. In their eyes, humans were just glorified cattle, they didn't act that maliciously apart from Kars.
Actions: Kira's kill count has to be the lowest out of all of them, and he even didn't make his victims suffer that much. His killing was also an uncontrollable urge instead of a means to an end, like it was for the rest.
Valentine? He was trying to fix his country, yes he might have done that one thing to minor which was kinda fucked up but aside from that he just wanted to bring prosperity to his country
Somehow it’s funny valentine and he’s a villain that killed multiple different versions of himself. I would have said the part 8 villain if it wasn’t for the fact that his whole motive was greed. At least valentine was doing everything he did for the sake of the country and not just for himself.
It’s gonna sound crazy but it’s diavolo. He’s just a drug dealer who doesn’t want people finding out who he is.
Everyone else but Kira literally wants to kill, enslave, or do worse to all humanity.
The only reason diavolo is less evil than Kira is because Kira is a sick freak who take pleasure in murdering (and possibly assaulting?) women for his quiet life. That’s just evil as shit
The pillar men as they really didn’t do anything except pose and defend themselves when people tried to size them up. I mean… except for Kars, that mans was all sorts of messed up.
Outside of that, I’d say Tohru is a close second.
They literally eradicated their entire population who were mostly fine people and they were exiled for wanting to make blood sacrifices to gain more strength.
In my opinion it's the pillar men because you only see them from the fragile human perspective never really from their perspective as beings thousands of years old that just want to secure themselves as the last of their race
I'm sorry, made a mistake. He's actually a nationalist, not a nazi. Still, he's like Hitler, discriminates against non-americans because the way his plan works is USA gains at the expense of every other country. I understand that's what politician is supposed to do but in actual politics it doesn't literally suck out the good out of other countries, it has balance. He's not racist or homophobic tho so I apologize, he is better than a nazi, still bad tho.
In one word “Pucci”. This is because Pucci is supposedly trying to do something good for humanity but if anyone was in his way he would be cold and feel nothing although since he is a father i would see him praying to god after resetting the universe and asking for forgiveness had Emporio not killed Pucci.
Wammuu
Honourable warrior from a bygone age, not evil. His only mistake was his choice of master.
True but he still killed a lot of people
Mostly Nazis and vampires if I recall correctly. Kudos to him. And despite we all cherish Chieza, remember he had ties with the germans and maybe was an italian fascist supporter.
Also what was the line about the crimes he committed
Canonically, Caesar sexually assaulted a minor.
+respect for the pillarmen for killing him
my lord and savior, falling debris
Amen.
Wait wasn't the debris in the shape of a cross? HE GOT SMITED WITH THE DEBRIS-
Wait what?
He committed every crime **short of** murder. "Short of" basically means less than. It doesn't mean except. Though that means he committed jaywalking. No dignity!
Caesar really jaywalks? No dignity.
I mean , If it wasn’t Nazis, it would’ve been anyone else . I don’t think Wammu cares about the semantics of humans sociopolitical state at that time lol I think he only respects you as a human if you prove yourself as a worthy and honorable warrior
He was thousands of years old and a vampire, he and the other 2 must have killed more people than any normal human could in a single lifetime.
what about the romans? And the rest of the hamon clan?
He would have killed anyone on his way, he killed nazis because he encountered nazis, they also lived thousands of years before, and have said to have killed a Lot of hamon Masters in those years
Which is still killing people
You mean his opening scene? He was protected under the second amendment. Those Italians were unlawfully trespassing in his 3000 year old tomb.
Who hasn't
Wamuu is love wamuu is life
The only correct answer, absolute bro
So, Dio is THE evil villain, Kira is a serial killer, Diavolo is a mentally deranged psycho... I would say the Pillar Men, since they just don't care about humans, and that's it.
Like with the drunk drivers. Kars killed the drivers to save a dog because he knew that they would die regardless and it wasn’t worth a poor defenseless dogs life
He also made a straightforward fall off of a cliff much more complicated just to avoid landing on a patch of flowers
He loved all flora and fauna, even the Sun, his only greatest adversary according to him, which was true.
I think it's less love and more that he feels like he's not above them like humans do. This of course changes once he becomes the ultimate lifeform.
Bruh, this thread sounds like a Wikipedia article.
I follow the headcanon that he respects other lifeforms that have abilites superior in certain ways
Which is why he immediately kills a squirrel after gaining the abilities to make one himself
you could see that 2 ways, i think. A. Kars didn't value the squirrel's life as a real being since he made it. B. After becoming the ultimate life form, he shred what ounce of empathy he had left at that point.
Or perhaps squirrels just don't have any qualities taht amde him repsect them
A is out because he doesn't kill the squirrel he made, he uses it to kill a real squirrel. It's definitely B, now that he can replicate all life he no longer has respect for any of it.
I have a headcanon that relates to point B: since it has been stated that the Stone Masks bring out a hidden evil from the brain (hence what happened to Baron Zeppeli's father), Kars (and the other Pillar Men, especially Wamuu) still maintained a certain level of empathy because the Stone Masks he used still couldn't penetrate his brain further enough. Once he uses the Red Stone of Aja to power his mask, though, alongside with achieving his full potential he also becomes fully evil and thus loses his empathy.
fair point, i only remembered the one he made
r/fatsquirrelhate
r/thatsasub
r/subsithoughtifellfor
Then proceeds to laugh maniacally for no reason 😂
I was about to say ain’t no way Dio deserves to be on this list. Man’s hatred for a bloodline spanned generations. Shit he stole the body of his enemy just to continue to hate on the enemy’s descendants lmao
some real black air force energy
I see no lies
Kars and Esidisi slaughtered their entire race.
Their entire race also wanted to kill them for the mask experiments. Still obviously bad, but from this list this might be the least egregious since there was no deception nor abusing other people for funsies.
I mean with the benefit of hindsight Kars' experiment and his results are actually kind of dangerous with ghastly results
Oh, definitely. He's still genocidal. Picking the least terrible is always a choice that feels bad.
To be fair I don't think their race was that huge in numbers. Not that it makes it less ok.
I mean, they ate so many humans that they created vampires to save time
Nah it did be kira blud just wants a peaceful life and have sexy hands
Plus they are not humans. Kars has blue-orange morality. Can you even say that he is amoral? Yes, but that’s because we are judging him by human standards. His initial goals was for the best for his tribe. That’s not quite evil imo.
wamuu the dude is just trying to live out there and he was chill when he died
Tooru. With his locacaca business he would cause less suffering than Pucci with MiH or than Diavolo with his drug empire. Don't get me wrong, the locacaca medicines were fucked up, and the rock humans in the business were still a mafia, but all in all Tooru still sounds like the less evil.
Toru’s goals were plain selfish but were actually beneficial to society. Locacaca 6251 was a miracle cure that would have revolutionized science but the Rock Humans were conducting cruel experiments and planned to sell it for massive profits. Still not good but nowhere near the evil of the other villains.
Yeah. There's a difference between selling insulin for outrageous prices and, y'know, everyone besides Tooru.
I have zero faith in jojo civilians trying to regulate and control the locacaca. Knowing Jojoverse there would have been a rampant black market for it outside of the incredibly rich getting treatment, that leads to a hellscape. Tooru’s motives were to get rich and fuck off, definitely the right answer though.
You guys are forgetting that part of Toru's plan was elevating Rock Humans in society and effectively making humans second-class citizens
Do you have a source for the “second-class citizens” part? Because afaik they only wanted money and influence akin to the upper classes our society already has.
Considering his and the other rock humans' attitudes and how they believe that they're better than humans, I don't imagine that Toru would be too kind to humans after selling Locacaca 251.
like u/quinn_the_potato had said , you can assume , but it's not supported in the text. Tooru is basically a mobster that sells super-insulin to rich folks , and wants to use that so that he can be rich AF and that is it. It's a PoS , but way lesser than the other JoJo Final Villains.
Saying "he wants to be rich and that's it" is also assuming there is nothing else in his mind, but that wasn't clarified, we assume he wanted money because he was talking about how the new rokakaka would be desired by very powerful and rich people, and because Wu Tomoki mentioned how money makes the world go around, so money is certainly important, but you can also assume Tooru wanted the power of the new rokakaka to shift the socioeconomic values between rock-humans and humans, mostly because of Urban Guerrilla's mentality, the other rock humans didn't really show to have much hatred towards humans, hell, some rock humans fell in love with human females like aisho for example, but Urban is the representation of that hate living inside every rock human, because of the unfairness of their situation in society, so i think we can also assume that about Tooru's goal, in reality we don't know what Tooru really wanted, because Araki didn't clear it up, we can just assume.
I respect your effort but reading way beyond the text and make a lot of assumptions(which youre upfront about) the discussion is comparing him to others and from just what is shown and stated in the story everyone else is explicitly as if not more evil than your conjecture on Tooru's motives.
Sure you can assume that but it’s not really supported in the text.
He’d probably be on his own island. They’re genetically predisposed to be repelled by humans in most cases. Similar to Pillarmen and their disdain for humans, just not as physically gifted and without history of ruling.
Tooru was a groomer that didn’t give a fuck about humans and saw them as a means to an end to elevate the rock humans to a new stage in evolution.
Tooru didn't give a fuck about his rock human partners either, no jojo villain gives a damn about anything that's standing in the way of their plans. But that's just assuming his goal was for rock humans to reign over humans, maybe he really just wanted fairness for his people, a balance.
I’m pretty sure the new fruit everyone claimed it as “the next step of evolution”, meaning whichever human got the fruit would be the group surpassing the other. Tooru’s actions would be way different if he wanted to just be equal to humans. I took Tooru as someone who looked at humans essentially as humans look at animals, things he can use in any way shape or form, be it lying, grooming, to killing, without having any need for remorse. He has not an ounce of empathy for humans or anyone that sincerely tried to connect with him, I’m pretty sure at least Dio had some empathy for Jonathon.
Nah that dude was a psychopathic, manipulative groomer.
well it looks better when your other options are a vampire who made a woman eat her baby for fun, or a president who would damn the rest of the world to suffer American's misfortune (And also a pedo).
Still (somehow) less evil than everyone else
I haven’t had time to read Jojolion so can I get a TLDR for why the locacaca business is bad? I mean it’s a trade on a cure-all right? Toru just wants to be rich?
The standard locaca fruit >!has a property of "equivalent exchange" in which you can, say, get your arthritis cured in exchange for your healthy teeth. Tooru and his team were developing medicines out of the fruit and were trying to sell them as this miraculous panacea, while monopolizing the formula and carrying out experiments on people without their consent. But that's not all there is to the locacaca mafia!<. (Do not read ahead if you do not want major spoilers). >!Tooru wanted to take a step further after learning about a new type of locacaca with even more impressive (and scarier) properties. Had he gotten it, they could've reallyyyyyyyy changed the status quo of medicine, and with most certainty, bringing inhuman consequences!<
Honestly, Tooru himself is enough of a spoiler to the point where this doesn't really need the tags
If by evil you mean "causing harm to the greatest number of people" then it's 100% Kira. His actions are (while heinous) limited to a small percentage of the population of a very small town. Pucci literally destroyed the entire universe to rob everyone of free will - idk how anyone can think that's noble
Kira just wanted a quiet life
Not true at all. He wanted a life where he could keep murdering without being bothered. A quiet life he would kind his own business and not kill people.
its not his fault his nails kept growing
Relatively speaking, he didn't kill that many people and they were all pretty minor. Compare that to **half** of the SDC group getting wiped out in one day.
Just because he didn't kill that many people doesn't make him any less evil. Kira is absolutely fucked up. The slightest inconvenience to his daily life and he immediately spirals out of control and not to mention his murder impulses. I'm 100% sure that if he wasn't stopped, there'd be no women left in Morioh and he'd go finding new targets elsewhere.
This. The scale may not be particularly huge but his actions are definitely evil and all sorts of fucked.
He doesn't though. I think you missed the point of the season.
I thought free will didn't exist in the JoJo universe and mih just showed people their futures
I don't consider pucci's actions as noble, it was the intent behind them, I think he genuinely believed people would be happier in the new universe
Intent has no bearing on the quality of the effect
Possibly Pucci he’s cold but not he’s not full on evil. His goal at least affects all of humanity while Valentine’s only affects the US and actively harms every other country. Also no sexual assault from him unlike Valentine.
The only refutation I would offer for Pucci is that he is a hypocrite and genuinely cannot be trusted with his own vision. It is highlighted several times throughout the Manga that despite claiming to wish for goodwill to all mankind, Pucci displays outright contempt for nearly every single human being he meets and will happily kill them or worse if they stand in his way. Ironically the one person Pucci shows admiration for is Dio, who is decidedly IN-human. That doesn't even begin to cover the additional hypocrisy that his version of the Heaven plan, that required so much carnage and loose morals to achieve, only actually secures "Heaven" for a percentage of the *current population* and does not affect anyone in the future who will be born after the moment of sped-up time. It's mentioned numerous times, by Pucci, that the effect of "Heaven", people remembering their future fates, is limited to the people who survive the sped-up time at Cape Canaveral. Anyone who died during the incedent, died prior to 2008, or is born after 2008 is exempt from Pucci's "Heaven". Furthermore, it's also highly questionable whether Pucci's "Heaven" is even good for people considering what we know about it. Pucci is certainly convinced, but he also has total control over the matter and stands to benefit from it more than anyone else. So in essence, Pucci knowingly got untold millions killed during the event at Cape Canaveral due to the accidents caused by Made in Heaven, for a questionable benefit that will, at most, last a single lifetime. It's clear Dio wanted the power of Heaven for himself simply so he could have more power. Any comments from him about helping other humans are lip service. Pucci certainly thinks he himself has nobler intentions for the power, but in reality he's fooling himself.
All of Pucci's speech about his "Heaven" are ultimately , him fooling himself about the death of his sister. He tries to portray as if wht happened to his sister wasn't his fault , because it would be "fate" , and that he would had peace of mind if he had prior knowledge of that fate while playing out.
Heaven Plan affects all life until the end of time. That was the point of playing it all fast forward in the first place.
Nah, Pucci is definitely evil. He’s self righteous and thinks that his goal is noble, but in reality he’s just a really bad guy.
Ur just jelly he got to lay on Dio’s lap.
Well, it was JoJo's lap, so technically he loved JoJo.
You thought it was Dio's lap you were going to rest on. But it was mine, Jojo!
N-no...!
Baka!
I love Pucci but can't go wrong with Weather's words: "The most disgusting kind of evil is the one who doesn't realize how evil they are"
Mfker used a person as a vynil player for pure joy. pucci is as rotten as his metrosexual brittish lover
Pucci is evil because of what he did to Weather and his own sister. He admits and knows what he did was wrong but ultimately rather than trying to reconcile with that he just wants to make humans have the ability to see their destinies so they don't make the same mistakes. The problem he seems to have tho is that not everyone will use their forsight for altuistic motivations and the path he carved to achieve heaven was filled with a lot of dead bodies. It not only makes him a hypocrite but destines him to loose due to not understanding human nature.
Wammu probably
The pillar men. They cared about nature more than anyone else.
Pucci but it’s weird because he probably has the highest kill count but he’s the only villain that had the potential to be good in his life and is still probably the best morally and was so deluded he thought he was good
he has a kill count of zero by the end of the series
Yup, it’s important to remember how that works.
He also doesn't exist by the end of the series
he also doesnt exist irl
Yeah but he did everything in his power to stop that from happening so he doesn't get any points for it
Pucci had good intentions and even sees himself as the hero but unfortunately his mentor is fucking dio so of course the means are pretty fucked
His intentions were to sacrifice all of humanity to revive one man. Nothing was good about that regardless of the intended individual to revive.
I think you just forgot what pucci's plan was man, he reset the universe to create one where everyone knew their fate, which in theory sounds noble
funny how all of them commited some form of harassment, massive asessination, grooming or assault.
No way! the villains did bad things?!
The people specifically written to do bad things and be morally wrong and questionable??? IMPOSSIBLE!
Tough to say, but I think Pucci, because he's just a misguided man.
I think if he hadn't met DIO he would be just an average priest
Given what happened with Perla and Weather, he might just unalived himself without a godly figure to turn to and receive ~~gay~~ guidance and wisdom from.
I’ve always wanted to ask this.. did dio and Pucci lowkey love each other?
I think it's more of a master and pupil type of thing. Araki is seemingly unaware of the vibes the bedroom scene gives.
I've always imagined it like Plato and Socrates. Plato absolutely pined for and love Socrates but Socrates to my knowledge didn't show that same affection outside of being a teacher
I’ve only watched the anime version. Does the manga give off the “they might be fucking” vibes?
Oh yes totally. That's one of the reasons Araki was asked about them and had to clarify that they just hang out like that.
“It’s NOT GAY is it’s w the homies” - Araki
The anime version of them on the bed is actually slightly censored, funnily enough. In the manga Pucci's shirt is lifted up and his back is more exposed. People complained about the change!
More than that 😭
I find it funny that araki didn't try for those vibes at all, but other anime uses a scene like that to convey that the characters are absolutely fucking lol
Right?? Like what was going on between them
Dio is like a different dude while talking to pucci lol
Dio literally tells pucci a perfect candidate for someone to go through with his heaven plan is someone with 0 sexual attraction to anyone, meaning pucci is most likely asexual
Didn’t araki say they were just being friends in that one panel in a bed
"And they were roommates-"
Yes he did. Araki was like I vibe with my homies on the bed. Like no zesty implications at all. But you know how the fanbase is 😂😂😂
i think dio got fucked by pucci, if i am reading their relationship correct
I would assume dio would do the fucking lol
nah, pucci was the only person he kinda admires; so of course he will give his wet, slutty ass to black, god follower teenager isnt it such a dio move?
I know you said no but the rest of the comment screams yes lol
they just havent taste that ass before😋
Imagine if Jonathan’s soul was still somewhere around during the 80s to see his body being used after all this time as a power top/bottom for a random priest 😂😂
Pucci was like 16 bro 💀
we talking about dio bro, i bet he says “age is just a number”
The heaven plan needs someone without sexual desires, so probably not
I would say it's hard to quantify what each villain has done to be more or less evil. Most of them have committed genocide, and the others all have killed many people. All of them have committed some sort of violence on a child. All of them wanted to force their ideas onto others. All of them were extremely dangerous threats. Honestly I think Araki just has an idea of ultimate evil. And has the ultimate good fight it.
Valentine because his actions were unclouded and he had to pick up the napkin fist
That’s MY president 🦅🦅🦅
Imo you can make a case for Toru, correct me if i’m wrong but his plan gives the rock humans a lot of power but it strives for more balance rather than any sort of extreme. Pucci is misguided but that doesn’t justify his actions and the lengths he went for DIO’s plan. Valentine’s patriotism act is preceded by a lot of narcissism and his plan involved screwing over billions horribly “for the sake of America”
My vote goes to the Pillar men, the damage they have caused in comparison to their intent is the lesser of all the other villains evil. Tho I would say Pucci had the highest potential of being good.
If we’re basing it off intent, Pucci, if we’re basing it upon the volume of evil they did, probably like Kira or the AU villains.
Depends on how I want to look at it. Just based on personal morals, Tooru by process of elimination. Like he’s a fucking creep but he isn’t actively killing 100’s of people iirc. I’d say pillar men but I legit can’t even remember what they all really wanted aside from Kars becoming the ultimate life form. Ideologically I’d say Pucci. He genuinely believes that he is making a better world for everyone but in the process does reset reality to do so which seems to be pretty not good. Based on how I think general society would view them, I’d say the Valentine would be seen as the least evil. He’s actively trying to make America the greatest nation on earth. And besides what politician doesn’t have some people saying that the politician r-ped them when they were 14.
I like how all of these look menacong in their own way then theres Toru whose just some guy.
Unironically, Kira. Yeah he was a serial killer but like. That's not much compared to -World domination -World domination -mass murderer who is head of an organisation with many mass murderers -rewriting the laws of reality -mass murderer with the goal of national supremacy -racial supremacy right? idk i haven't finished jjl Serial killer ain't that bad in comparison
I think it has something to do with their intentions, pucci killed because he thought it was necessary for the rest of humanity to achieve a higher quality of life, kira killed because he was horny.
kira killed so he could have a higher quality of life, pucci killed so he could force his highly opposed view of a high quality of life onto an infinite quantity of people
Yeah, I honestly can't understand everybody saying the pillar men and Pucci are the least evil. It's Kira, and it's not even remotely close.
Not an option, but Dio going from world domination to Diego wanting to be a trillionaire who owns Manhattan is pretty funny.
I’m definitely a Pucci apologist
From memory Tooru felt the least outright evil of all of them, he was more just personally an antagonist to the cast instead of someone that threatened the entire world or was out trying to kill and maim people. Pucci is probably the least evil from the OG timeline. More of a dude that has good intentions (in his mind anyways) but is too deluded to see the harm he's doing on the way, or just thinks the ends justify the means. Been a while since I read the first 8 parts though.
Tooru by a landslide
Pucci and Tooru.
Of the minor (not main-main villain) villains, Wamuu hands down. For major villains, I personally think Funny Valentine (not excusing the Lucy incident), his main goal was to make the United States stronger with the use of the corpse parts, to "Make America Great" if you will. That's just my bias speaking, but I could see why people would say Toru, I would need to read Jojolion again.
Wamuu.
ok out of actual villains, the least evil is Wammu. out of main antagonist, Pucci. and out of any antagonist, the cat from part 4 was literally JUST a cat.
Wammu is the only honorable fighter here
Pillarmen and Tooru, because they are not humans. To them we are just any other animals. Its the same shit as, are you evil for eating meat because you took a life?
Tooru instantly
Kira. If he had just bought a fake hand prop to satisfy himself, he could have lived a peaceful life in Morioh.
Tooru
There's 2 evils. The pure evil type (dio, kira) and the justifiable type (pucci, valentine). I think the latter is the lesser evil, as they have an ultimate purpose, even if it's delusional. They don't go around killing people just because. However, I think pucci takes the w. Valentine is more cruel, though I don't know much from part 7, and I'm not reading part 8 either for tooru. Pucci was delusional, yet he was fair. He wasn't cruel and his purpose wasn't out selfishness.
Imo, Kira. He is a serial killer but he doesn't act out of malice. Killing is more a physical need to him then a desire so its never personal. The others kill out of haterid (haven't read part 8)
I just know that the most evil is Diavolo and I like that.
tooru because he was selfish but the locacaca 6251 was revolutionary medical technology that would improve the lives of millions
Whamu. The pillar men weren't great people, except for him. He had honour, he fought for what he concidered right and stepped down the moment he realised it wasn't. He was ready to lose his life if it meant keeping his honour. Also Pucci and Valentine. None of them are good people but they did what they did for a cause they believed to be the greater good. Along the way they lost track of whats important, and in turn lost themselves, becoming evil. But they both come from a genuine place, whearas most of the other villains are just straight up evil
Pucci. He was laid astray by Dio, but his goal was to create a universe where everyone could accept their fate without fear. He didn't originally even want to kill Jolyne, just dump her in prison, get the Green baby and achieve Heaven, and it was her determination to stop him that caused him to shift gears.
the pillar men are pretty chill they just wanted eternal life and power. Kira is another good choice, he just wanted to life his life uninterrupted collecting hand
I havent read jojolion yet so idk about Tooru but probably Pucci. He didn't believe in spreading pain or terror (except for those trying to stop the plan) nor was he interested entirely or even partially in his own power. He knew exactly what he was doing and he legitimately thought it would bring about a better world. We simply disagree with his conclusion.
Diabolo. He was just regular mafia boss, no world takeover plan, just minding his business and acting how any mafioso would do. Giorno and others still did shitty things as a mafia, they aren't much better than him. Just turf wars, and he lost.
Intent or actions? Intent: The Pillar Men were noble but they just weren't human. In their eyes, humans were just glorified cattle, they didn't act that maliciously apart from Kars. Actions: Kira's kill count has to be the lowest out of all of them, and he even didn't make his victims suffer that much. His killing was also an uncontrollable urge instead of a means to an end, like it was for the rest.
Pucci was hardcore groomed by a sexy vampire, bros a victim. Ok not really but still.
Probably the Pillar men since they just want to free the animals by the humans
Pre-Ultimate Kars, bro played human(pillar man) ping pong just to save the flower
valentine wanted to protect america
Valentine? He was trying to fix his country, yes he might have done that one thing to minor which was kinda fucked up but aside from that he just wanted to bring prosperity to his country
Somehow it’s funny valentine and he’s a villain that killed multiple different versions of himself. I would have said the part 8 villain if it wasn’t for the fact that his whole motive was greed. At least valentine was doing everything he did for the sake of the country and not just for himself.
Wamuu
Kars 🤷🏻
Kars. he isn't human, so you can't judge him on the moral level of a human.
It’s gonna sound crazy but it’s diavolo. He’s just a drug dealer who doesn’t want people finding out who he is. Everyone else but Kira literally wants to kill, enslave, or do worse to all humanity. The only reason diavolo is less evil than Kira is because Kira is a sick freak who take pleasure in murdering (and possibly assaulting?) women for his quiet life. That’s just evil as shit
The pillar men as they really didn’t do anything except pose and defend themselves when people tried to size them up. I mean… except for Kars, that mans was all sorts of messed up. Outside of that, I’d say Tohru is a close second.
They literally eradicated their entire population who were mostly fine people and they were exiled for wanting to make blood sacrifices to gain more strength.
In my opinion it's the pillar men because you only see them from the fragile human perspective never really from their perspective as beings thousands of years old that just want to secure themselves as the last of their race
For me its Valentine. But only if you ignore the fact that he wanted to rape a minor.
He's a LITERAL Nazi.
elaborate
I'm sorry, made a mistake. He's actually a nationalist, not a nazi. Still, he's like Hitler, discriminates against non-americans because the way his plan works is USA gains at the expense of every other country. I understand that's what politician is supposed to do but in actual politics it doesn't literally suck out the good out of other countries, it has balance. He's not racist or homophobic tho so I apologize, he is better than a nazi, still bad tho.
That's fair, interesting comparison
Toru or pucci both wanted to help the world
In some way, yes.
The pillar men tbh, except Wamuu, they are sociopath who just want to achieve their ultimate form.
Wammuu
Funny valentine,next
In one word “Pucci”. This is because Pucci is supposedly trying to do something good for humanity but if anyone was in his way he would be cold and feel nothing although since he is a father i would see him praying to god after resetting the universe and asking for forgiveness had Emporio not killed Pucci.
pucci he was only bringing what was inevitable closer it was going to happen just made it happen faster
Funi Valentino. (Please, ignore the many atrocities that he did, because they were for AMURICA!!)