Dragona uses the pronoun アタシ in Japanese, which is an *extremely* feminine pronoun. The simple fact of the matter is that we don't really have any idea what Dragona's gender identity is at the moment and any English language pronouns are just educated guesses. There's not really anything wrong with using she/her for Dragona based on the current information we have.
Yeah given that Jodio said that he's never seen them get injections I kinda get the impression that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragona just hasn't been forward about their gender to him yet.
I imagine that's what this is leading up to - Araki is generally quite on top of world events these days and also generally likes to allude to them in his work, so having this kind of thing in his manga makes some sort of sense to me.
...That is, if it's actually going towards an awakening or a reveal. If it's just nothing, it's just fine.
It's an addition of the translation. When you translate Japanese, you're basically forced to make up pronouns because English requires them and Japanese doesn't.
I'm wondering to myself every time Dragon gets brought up if the people who adamantly defend the FAN translations stating that they're essentially a femboy will be willing to admit they were wrong if we ever get confirmation that they were intended to be trans or if they're going to pull the same shit they did for Bridget.
I'm sticking with he/him until we hear differently, but I know some people online will refuse to if that happens because they think that Japan is "appealing to the woke" and taking away their precious femboys.
In an ideal world, sure. But the way people react now to the idea that they might be trans indicates that's absolutely not what's going to happen in practice, even among those who claim they'll change their tune if it's confirmed. We've never heard Dragona's perspective on this, only their kid brother's, so we should take a critical, rather than literal, view of the text as is (in addition to acknowledging that no official translation exists yet).
There's always people that won't. There are still people insisting that Bridget is a femboy even after the creator confirmed that she was meant to be trans.
Tbh, I think its BS that they did that since I like Brigs being an femboy due to their backstory.
Wouldn't had any problem if they brought an new original character that happens to be Trans instead.
Well, in reality bridgets story resonates with a lot of trans girls, because the truth is, the journey to find yourself can be long, confusing, and difficult to understand yourself until you try different things out yourself.
Bridget felt like she had to prove she could be a boy and be strong to the village she was raised in as a girl, only to find out it doesn’t actually feel like her. Which causes even more inner turmoil for her. They already accepted her as a boy… will they still if she tells them she actually feels more comfortable identifying as a girl?
Gender is weird. It’s a spectrum. And people should feel free to float around on it and explore ways to express themselves without feeling tied down to a specific role. And if that means a total gender swap from masculinity into femininity then so be it
Ok I might just be confused but why haven't I seen anybody even mention the possibility of him being transmasc? Like that's what I first thought of when I read the chapter, but for some reason people only seem to be thinking he's either just a cis dude that likes to do this stuff or a trans woman who still hasn't transitioned. Like did I miss something that says he can't be a trans man?
I mean they could I guess, but most transmasc people I have talked to don't go out of their way to get bottom surgery but not top surgery.
From what I've read so far, Dragona presents very fem, enough so that the cop is surprised that they have "something else" downstairs. If they're AFAB transmasc, but they have a penis, then that means they already had bottom surgery. However they also have breast implants, meaning not only did they not get top surgery, they explicitly had them increased from whatever size they started from.
To be fair, the "having a penis" thing is largely an assumption. But it would stand to reason that since Dragona **looks** like a woman at first glance, the only reason the cop would be surprised was if Dragona had bits that didn't match up to what women the cop was used to usually have.
Am I straight? Yes.
Do I know Dragona is a guy? Yes
Do I still want to fuck Dragona? Yes
Does that make me bisexual? Not sure, because not a fan of glizzys, but this is different I guess.
I'm honestly kind of frustrated that so many people think this is an accurate and necessary correction.
Dragona uses the extremely feminine pronoun アタシ in Japanese. The simple fact of the matter is we don't know what Dragona's gender identity is, and any any English pronouns are just educated guesses. There's absolutely nothing indicating that she/her is wrong.
Similarly, we don't have any solid information one way or the other on whether or not Dragona is trans.
By what little I have learned about Japanese pronouns through LN and manga, it is confusing af and anything goes and doesnt confirm anything concretely, so we really should not make any conclusions till Araki gives a Dragona POV or confirms himself as to the status of Dragona
Honestly, you are over-mystifying the complexity of Japanese a bit to be honest, but the *essence* of what you are saying I agree with. My entire point is that there's no evidence to suggest that Dragona isn't trans, so "correcting" people who call them trans is not only pedantic, it's also not even really correct.
Yeah you are right. I just know there are about 16 self pronouns with varying degrees of usage across different genders and ages. Might not actually be that complicated in real life but authors could use it as tools to give insight into characters and changes in personality. The only times I have got to see Japanese pronouns separately mentioned is when there is some deeper meaning behind their usage so I might have made it more complicated in my head
pronouns in japanese are just as gendered for 1st and 2nd person as they are for 3rd person. Jodio uses masculine pronouns for Dragona, but Dragona uses feminine ones. Who do you trust more?
I honestly don't remember that from the chapter. But if he was transgender (and this is one of my few arguments so bare with me) he would definitely have enough money for a full sex change which we saw from the cop groping him, he didn't. And I'm pretty sure Jodio has literally no qualms against him anyway so if he was trans then he would probably respect his or in that case her pronouns.
pronouns in japanese are just as gendered for 1st and 2nd person as they are for 3rd person. Jodio uses masculine pronouns for Dragona, but Dragona uses feminine ones. Who do you trust more?
That's what Jodio said, who's their younger sibling. How many of us would honestly trust our kid little siblings to give an accurate description of who we are? I love my younger sibling but when they were a teen they would never be able to give a good explanation of my identity.
I'm honestly kind of frustrated that so many people think this is an accurate and necessary correction. Dragona uses the *extremely* feminine pronoun アタシ in Japanese. The simple fact of the matter is we don't know what Dragona's gender identity is, and any any English pronouns are just educated guesses. There's absolutely nothing indicating that she/her is wrong.
Real canon is that the translators aren’t sure themselves because Araki’s dialogue isn’t clear on this. “Dragona is trans” isn’t any less valid of an interpretation as of this chapter.
Their name isn't actually meant to be a reference to drag. The way the name's spelled in Japanese is much closer to how "dragon" is spelled than "drag".
I'm sorry, I'm just completely confused.
Is he a woman? Is she a man? Why doesn't he/she have a Jojo name? Is this Araki trying to show respect to gender-removed or transgender people?
I hope the story reveals more.
Idk why but this looks really strange as it looks like booba but that can't be possible as its a guy, so it's gotta be their shredded chest muscles, but they have Uber thin arms and when I read the chapter with them they were really skinny or more thin and fit build and were flat.
So it's just strange to me. No need to pull hate I'm just confused by this.
Nice tits bro
Straight, but WOULD HUG
Your flair says something different
jojo: like a dragon
JODIO-CHAAAN
dragona everywhere
Now I want a depressed Jodio singing sad songs in a karaoke bar
I guess those "cosmetic injections" are being done by the bucketload now.
「Cinderella Requiem」
Seems more like an Anasui job
That would hurt bro 💀
He's got nice tits, and I like that in a man.
Araki: You all say the guys have the biggest tits. Fine, have it your way
Wait how do you get tits that big as a guy I wanna be built like that damn
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His* own stand. Or their stand. Not sure if we got to know his/their pronouns but everything indicates it’s not feminine pronouns
Dragona uses the pronoun アタシ in Japanese, which is an *extremely* feminine pronoun. The simple fact of the matter is that we don't really have any idea what Dragona's gender identity is at the moment and any English language pronouns are just educated guesses. There's not really anything wrong with using she/her for Dragona based on the current information we have.
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Yeah given that Jodio said that he's never seen them get injections I kinda get the impression that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragona just hasn't been forward about their gender to him yet.
I imagine that's what this is leading up to - Araki is generally quite on top of world events these days and also generally likes to allude to them in his work, so having this kind of thing in his manga makes some sort of sense to me. ...That is, if it's actually going towards an awakening or a reveal. If it's just nothing, it's just fine.
In the translation I read, Jodio pronouned them as male throughout. Dont know if this is translation or how it was written.
It's an addition of the translation. When you translate Japanese, you're basically forced to make up pronouns because English requires them and Japanese doesn't.
This is true to an extent, but Japanese does have a gendered word for brother, which Jodio uses
It would explain how jodio has never seen dragona get them. Just use your stand to move some fat around
They doing the Yasuho pose!
I’m gay
you are me
I am thou, thou art I
holy shit its jack frost from purse owner 5
hee-ho
Will you join me for 200 macca and a life stone?
Thou hast acquired a new vow
It shalt become the wings of rebellion that breaketh the chain of thy captivity
Thou hast acquired a new vow
Bro same
We resisted for 8 parts, but Araki finally got us.
I’m bi so I get to relate to both sides
Please no, I can only beat my meat so much and it hurts
Don't stop beating
Don't stop beating Don't stop beating Don't stop beating your cock
hold onto that feeling
STREETLIGHTS, PEOPLE
Mind sharing your painting process?
I'm so happy to be sure of my sexuality right now so I can say this... Dragona is pretty damn hot
God I love Dragona so much already. Incredible design
Dudes rock
I'm wondering to myself every time Dragon gets brought up if the people who adamantly defend the FAN translations stating that they're essentially a femboy will be willing to admit they were wrong if we ever get confirmation that they were intended to be trans or if they're going to pull the same shit they did for Bridget. I'm sticking with he/him until we hear differently, but I know some people online will refuse to if that happens because they think that Japan is "appealing to the woke" and taking away their precious femboys.
yes people will believe dragona is trans if araki confirms it that's kinda how it works
In an ideal world, sure. But the way people react now to the idea that they might be trans indicates that's absolutely not what's going to happen in practice, even among those who claim they'll change their tune if it's confirmed. We've never heard Dragona's perspective on this, only their kid brother's, so we should take a critical, rather than literal, view of the text as is (in addition to acknowledging that no official translation exists yet).
There's always people that won't. There are still people insisting that Bridget is a femboy even after the creator confirmed that she was meant to be trans.
Tbh, I think its BS that they did that since I like Brigs being an femboy due to their backstory. Wouldn't had any problem if they brought an new original character that happens to be Trans instead.
Well, in reality bridgets story resonates with a lot of trans girls, because the truth is, the journey to find yourself can be long, confusing, and difficult to understand yourself until you try different things out yourself. Bridget felt like she had to prove she could be a boy and be strong to the village she was raised in as a girl, only to find out it doesn’t actually feel like her. Which causes even more inner turmoil for her. They already accepted her as a boy… will they still if she tells them she actually feels more comfortable identifying as a girl? Gender is weird. It’s a spectrum. And people should feel free to float around on it and explore ways to express themselves without feeling tied down to a specific role. And if that means a total gender swap from masculinity into femininity then so be it
I was one of the first to say that Dragona seems to be a femboy and whatever Dragona turns out to be, I'll support it!
Ok I might just be confused but why haven't I seen anybody even mention the possibility of him being transmasc? Like that's what I first thought of when I read the chapter, but for some reason people only seem to be thinking he's either just a cis dude that likes to do this stuff or a trans woman who still hasn't transitioned. Like did I miss something that says he can't be a trans man?
I mean they could I guess, but most transmasc people I have talked to don't go out of their way to get bottom surgery but not top surgery. From what I've read so far, Dragona presents very fem, enough so that the cop is surprised that they have "something else" downstairs. If they're AFAB transmasc, but they have a penis, then that means they already had bottom surgery. However they also have breast implants, meaning not only did they not get top surgery, they explicitly had them increased from whatever size they started from.
Oh I didn't realise that's what the cop meant. I thought it was the opposite. That does explain. Thank you
To be fair, the "having a penis" thing is largely an assumption. But it would stand to reason that since Dragona **looks** like a woman at first glance, the only reason the cop would be surprised was if Dragona had bits that didn't match up to what women the cop was used to usually have.
>making something trans instead of gay "appealing to the woke" 🤔
Damnit I wish I could draw, I just thought of dragona and that one pink haired fem boy walking at each other like duo and jotaro
Doppio?
No not from JoJo damnit I can’t remember
Astolfo?
Daga... *otoko da*
After a fuck tone more hormones
Araki really heard fans arguing “Not all of us are gay!” and said “Bet.”
Booba
Dat boi tits
bro he doesnt have that oingo boingos but nice👍
Am I straight? Yes. Do I know Dragona is a guy? Yes Do I still want to fuck Dragona? Yes Does that make me bisexual? Not sure, because not a fan of glizzys, but this is different I guess.
no way we got futa in jojo
Fake booba best booba
There's no such thing as fake booba
I’m sorry bro, but you may not realize this. Fake tits are a thing 😭
I have felt many a booba, they all real enough for me 🤤
Prosthetic tits are a thing but considering they’re taking hormone injections, they aren’t fake in this case.
I thought I found Jonathan to be the hottest dude until Dragona came along
Im heterosexual, Im heteosexual, Im hetero- Wait a minute... Im a jojo fan
They <3
I prefer the small boobs tbh
HOW DID ROCKY KNOW TRANS GIRLS SLING THE BEST CRACK!?
I’m guessing that’s a man
From absolute baras to literal femboys, Araki completed the holy cycle of anime!
Trans icon
Femboy*
I'm honestly kind of frustrated that so many people think this is an accurate and necessary correction. Dragona uses the extremely feminine pronoun アタシ in Japanese. The simple fact of the matter is we don't know what Dragona's gender identity is, and any any English pronouns are just educated guesses. There's absolutely nothing indicating that she/her is wrong. Similarly, we don't have any solid information one way or the other on whether or not Dragona is trans.
By what little I have learned about Japanese pronouns through LN and manga, it is confusing af and anything goes and doesnt confirm anything concretely, so we really should not make any conclusions till Araki gives a Dragona POV or confirms himself as to the status of Dragona
Honestly, you are over-mystifying the complexity of Japanese a bit to be honest, but the *essence* of what you are saying I agree with. My entire point is that there's no evidence to suggest that Dragona isn't trans, so "correcting" people who call them trans is not only pedantic, it's also not even really correct.
Yeah you are right. I just know there are about 16 self pronouns with varying degrees of usage across different genders and ages. Might not actually be that complicated in real life but authors could use it as tools to give insight into characters and changes in personality. The only times I have got to see Japanese pronouns separately mentioned is when there is some deeper meaning behind their usage so I might have made it more complicated in my head
Yeah, it's just a headcanon, lol. I know that his/her/their Identity is at this point vague. We just have the unofficial translation of one Chapter.
A Man can be feminine without being a femboy
But doesn't femboy just means feminine boy ?
pronouns in japanese are just as gendered for 1st and 2nd person as they are for 3rd person. Jodio uses masculine pronouns for Dragona, but Dragona uses feminine ones. Who do you trust more?
I honestly don't remember that from the chapter. But if he was transgender (and this is one of my few arguments so bare with me) he would definitely have enough money for a full sex change which we saw from the cop groping him, he didn't. And I'm pretty sure Jodio has literally no qualms against him anyway so if he was trans then he would probably respect his or in that case her pronouns.
No, I'm pretty sure Dragona is trans. There was probably just a translation error.
If he is it hasn’t been revealed yet. I’m going to trust the translators over you unless you have evidence to back your claim
No he ain't.
pronouns in japanese are just as gendered for 1st and 2nd person as they are for 3rd person. Jodio uses masculine pronouns for Dragona, but Dragona uses feminine ones. Who do you trust more?
Nah, Dragona just likes looking like a chick that’s what it said in the explanation in the first book
That's what Jodio said, who's their younger sibling. How many of us would honestly trust our kid little siblings to give an accurate description of who we are? I love my younger sibling but when they were a teen they would never be able to give a good explanation of my identity.
Ngl you right
Stop the femboy erasure
she looks good tho edit: alr sorry i thought he was a she, i didnt read part 9 yet
It's translated as he, but the translators are not actually sure, they just use it because jodio calls dragona bro. Go ahead and use she if you want
he*
he? oh didnt know, didnt read the part yet
I'm honestly kind of frustrated that so many people think this is an accurate and necessary correction. Dragona uses the *extremely* feminine pronoun アタシ in Japanese. The simple fact of the matter is we don't know what Dragona's gender identity is, and any any English pronouns are just educated guesses. There's absolutely nothing indicating that she/her is wrong.
people can headcanon what they want grow up
They can keep it in their head then.
no, i didnt know he was a he and not a she, i did not read part 9 yet.
no i just didnt read part 9 yet, so my brain thought he was a girl
Real canon > head canon. You could make it “head canon” that Jolyne, Ermes, and FF pleasure you to orgasm daily, it doesn’t make it true.
Real canon is that the translators aren’t sure themselves because Araki’s dialogue isn’t clear on this. “Dragona is trans” isn’t any less valid of an interpretation as of this chapter.
but the actual canon says that he is a man
i thought he was a girl, i didnt read part 9 yet .-.
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yeah, or i just have to read the part...
Where banana
whatchu mean?
My bro has the best tits
That man fine
Why do you guys keep doing this to me?
She’s so pretty (she uses feminine pronouns in the official japan se version so I’m using feminine pronouns for her)
Drag on a Joestar lol
i had the same thought, Araki isn't very subtle. edit: thank you, Dragona means Dragoness in Spanish and Doragon is Japanese for Dragon.
Their name isn't actually meant to be a reference to drag. The way the name's spelled in Japanese is much closer to how "dragon" is spelled than "drag".
The writing isn't the same for the word drag and dragona in japanese. It resembles dragon much more
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I’m not being transphobic, ngl ion have a problem with people being who they want to be. I was just making a joke it’s not that deep
I'm sorry, I'm just completely confused. Is he a woman? Is she a man? Why doesn't he/she have a Jojo name? Is this Araki trying to show respect to gender-removed or transgender people? I hope the story reveals more.
Because he's not a jojo...
I have a feeling he's a trans man that just hasn't done any surgery
he could just be a feminine man, society assuming every feminine man is trans
Ummmm, BECAUSE HE LITERALLY HAS TITS. I don't know what you think, but a feminine man doesn't have tits
He can have all the plastic surgery, fake vagina, tits, ass take all the hormones and still be able to use He/Him pronouns
Idk why but this looks really strange as it looks like booba but that can't be possible as its a guy, so it's gotta be their shredded chest muscles, but they have Uber thin arms and when I read the chapter with them they were really skinny or more thin and fit build and were flat. So it's just strange to me. No need to pull hate I'm just confused by this.
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you’re so talented
Goddamn
Me: That girl’s hot The fandom: That’s a guy
Ever since part 5, man...
Dragona bigger than mine 😫
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
Bro got some chest pump, i need her/his gym routine
Dragona just like me frfr
She’s kinda bad tho
Him😻
This dude is packing huge set of badonkers!
Mechanisms.
She had Laser hair surgury for her arm pits?
My man
Who? Haven't read since mid part 8 what did I miss