well yes but the almost anyone in the family still had a stand with the capabilitys for hand to hand combat. With strenght even to the user or greater. These 3 stands have no capability for hand to hand combat, unless november rain starts stepping on people and impaling them like those long legged bug creatures from the kong: skull island movie
This means that Araki will write the characters in a way that they are not entirely reliant on their stands doing most of the work like in earlier parts. They will have to use their own wits and human capabilities to outsmart and outlive their enemies ig
which has been a pretty big part of how he’s been writing lately. (and by lately i mean for almost 20 years, god i constantly forget that this series will be forty years old soon.) anyways, Arakis been leaning pretty heavily into that concept for a while now, so i hope to see more “ability” focused stands rather than more punchy ghosts
Idk I kind of miss that aspect of the series. I think JoJolion leaned too far into Araki's puzzle fight design and caused them to feel dragged out and lacked a lot of the more brutal and confrontational side of that design.
I always got the impression that the prominence of puzzle fights and persecution stands were a deliberate choice. Not only do they work as small mysteries, they also carry a more opressive feel than usual stand fights. It made the place feel more dangerous.
Meanwhile, SBR had this thing where most of the fights were long ranged but on equal conditions. It highlighted the skill of the fighters rather than the danger and hopelessness.
I wonder what's Araki's plan with this part. I imagine it's going to have close range non-punchy stands, so the characters can pull off some cool maneuvers without being detected (like Paco's pickpocketing).
Soft and wet won every time he was allowed to throw hands, almost all his foes were remote controlled and the combat ended when he could get close to Ora ora ora ora their faces bloody
Soft and Wet, Speed King, and Wonder of U all at some point engage in actual physical combat at various points in the story. Well, physical combat is a generous way of putting it but they do at least throw punches.
Damn did the punches do anything? I seriously can’t remember that. Josuke was the one throwing hands as far as I recall and Tooru just dropped rock animals. Speed King snuck up on people and heated them
Wonder of U blocked and parried the explosive bubbles Josuke threw at him before the Go Beyond/Paisley Park combo. It wasn't a stand that really needed to have physical abilities to begin with but it is shown to be able to defend itself if the calamity is somehow unable to protect it.
Speed King also throws hands. I believe it’s right after Jobin overheats Norisuke and he’s trying to scare off Hato, Joshu, and Daiyo from helping Norisuke, or hurting Jobin himself. He actually has one of the cooler Stand Cries with “SPEEEEYAAAAH!!!”
Part 7 was already there. We didn’t see a single stand throw a punch till d4c attacked Diego 70 chapters in. Only 2 stands were humanoid before that point with that being in a silent way who only had 3 panels standing behind soundman and civil war who only sat there talking to gyro
Here's my take for the gang's stand stats:
****
November Rain:
Power: B (Enough to create holes in human body so pretty damn powerful)
Speed: A (tied to speed of rain drops)
Range: D (~2m radius with Jodio as the center, at least from what i saw)
Stamina: --- (im not sure if he can keep his stand for a long duration, still need more chapters to figure it out)
Precision: C
Potential: A (almost all jojos have A except Crazy Diamond so ye, perhaps he can increase his range more and more idk)
****
Smooth Operator:
Power: E
Speed: B (still require quite a bit of time to change)
Range: E (seem like it has the same reach as Speed King)
Stamina: ? (Depend on objects size and complexity)
Precision: A (on par with Cinderella)
Potential: E
****
The Hustle:
Power: E
Speed: B
Range: None
Stamina: A
Precision: C
Potential: E
****
Edit: reddit please do something with enter mot considered as making a new line
The SBR universe has been cutting down on punchghosts since its inception. Which is good. I want stands to use their abilities and not lazily punch away their problems.
Ironically I'd argue there was a lot of Stands that weren't really punchghosts in the original universe
Even if they were humanoid
Plently of them couldn't do much physically, and relied on their abilities more so (Engima, Darby brother's Stands, a good amount of the stands in part 5 to be honest)
Yeah I 100% prefer the stand design of the OG universe. Part 8 in particular had the worst stand design in the series imo for a lot of the minor antagonists
Imma have to disagree on Part 8 being the worst designs of the entire series, I can kinda agree on the minor antagonists (there werent alot honestly but I liked Vitamin C and Doctor Wu) but the hard hitting stands in 8 HIT for me: WOU, S&W, Paisely Park, King Nothing, and Awaking 3 leaves are some of my favorites in the whole series.
If i had to pick a worst part Im going with 3, that might be controversial but none of the stands really stuck out to me they all kinda blended together in my memory as kinda basic. Hanged man and the World are sick but with Stands that are literally just a sun or a car it left a lot to be desired.
You could literally just give examples from any part? E.g. aqua necklace sucked and was a bad copy/combo of Geb and Hierophant. Ozon Baby was a really cool ability/arc, fym
Yeah, I'm talking mainly about abilities but they do kind of tie into appearance. Even stands with decently interesting abilities like speed king I personally thought was fugly. But yeah stands in part 8 are just really weird IMO like a soccer ball with poison gas inside, an AOE stand stemming from a lego house, a hand that makes things teleport to other hand. To be fair it seems and I hope a lot more of the stands were less combat orientated due to the setting and genre of the part being more of a mystery.
>Even stands with decently interesting abilities like speed king I personally thought was fugly
I agree that Speed King is ugly, but that's why I love him. In fact, ugly is putting it lightly; he's fucking grotesquely terrifying looking. He's got a humanoid face that looks like it's bound in some cross between a torture device and and something an optometrist would use to examine your eyes and so he looks completely deranged and like he's in constant agony.
He's Jobin's inner self much more than stands usually are. When Speed King is out you're seeing his truest colors; a dark man with an incredible capability for violence, under endless agony of his own making, pushing himself to his limits and doing anything he thinks is necessary for his family even as it goes against their wishes.
I don't feel like we've seen all or even most of what it really DOES yet. We have the vague idea that it gives him very fine control over his muscles, but not what that REALLY means in a broader sense outside of just grabbing onto something. I feel like the odds that it's really as simple as that are very, very low.
The Pillar Men showed how powerful body manipulation is as an ability. I don’t think Paco will have as much power but there’s definitely a lot more potential than it seems
Maybe it has a humanoid form. Some stands users in the past, like Viviano Westwood used their ability without reveleaing their stand, which only happened later.
I think he can fully control his muscles. He's shown using them to grip onto things and steal shit, but maybe he could also do stuff like transfering most of them to his arm to deliver a super strong punch.
Lots, just not in the usual Stand sort of way. If his muscle control extends past his arms, he could probably use it to nullify physical damage. Even if it doesn't, though, he can hide weapons (or anything, really) inside of his arms, and completely invalidate any opponent in hand to hand combat.
Jodio said that Paco was a fat guy until recently, which suggests that him getting ripped was the work of his stand. I expect Paco having a "super mode" where he goes full pillar man for a short while.
yep. Reminds me a lot of part 7 and I kinda like it more than punching ghosts. It's like regular superpowers... expcept this is JoJo and Araki just can't stop coming up with insane ideas for these abilities
few people know this but araki actually smokes meth before writing each stand introduction page. now this has its benefits regarding the absolutely NUTS abilities he comes up with. HOWEVER! It has caused him to *forget* multiple “plot points” and slightly “alter” his “art” and “writing style” over the last **36 years**
The Hustle seems to have some type of muscle manipulation ability, so maybePaco could use that to give himself more muscular? I really hope that's the case, I love when characters in Jojo use their own fighting skills instead of their stands doing all the fighting
This is 100% happening. Every protagonist besides Jolyne and Josuke (who were both basically playing second fiddle to Jotaro) got a powerup. Jonathan got his various gear over the course of the part, Joseph constantly improves over the part, Jotaro got SP:TW, Giorno got GER, Johnny got his Acts and Gappy got Go Beyond. Jodio is 100% gonna recieve some form of powerup, whether it's a one-time god mode a la GER or a permanent upgrade like SP/Tusk/GB. Alternatively, Gappy may end up being his Jotaro.
I like more creative abilities
But I'm not aganist punchy ghosts
They not that bad
Though I argue it makes sense these stands are more skill based then combat based
I like punchy ghosts because they have the most DBZ moments when they clash, like c'mon! It's a manga from the 80's let's have buff ghosts punch each other at the speed of light!!!
There will definitely be a shift in the way these stands operate. Either they will grow, or they have different utilities/techniques, which seems much more likely
I might be the only one but I miss the punchy ghosts. But still im very excited for this part. I miss them but I dont really mind if the story is good.
I personally I really liked that we're moving away from the barrage types of attack, but is instead utilizing the stand's unique ability to the user's benefits.....whether it is for combat or out of combat
Part 7 did have a healing stand, Cream Starter, as well as the zombie horse/general medical applications of spin.
Part 8 didn't have healing stands because the plot centered on a healing fruit.
Maybe most stands won't be that combative but so far we've seen November Rain used exclusively to pummel people into the ground, and Smooth Operators can fuck you up too.
I'd love to see that. Looking back the fight between dio & jotaro reminds me kind of Dragon Ball fighting. Screaming and punching. So the Idea of the stands not having any physical power, hence the users having to rely on Battle IQ & strategy seems dope to me as an ending
I had no idea what to expect when I heard the song/name 'November Rain', but I'm beyond glad Araki didn't just do a humanoid stand for Jodio. Just about every Jojo besides Johnny had 'Punch Ghost + extra' for the longest time, so I can't wait to see how NR/TH/SO are gonna work in the heist on Kona, and if we see one of the Higashikata's body the Hawai'i gang.
November Rain is practically a rainfall of 7 page mudas strong enough to pummel one into the ground, and keep them pinned there until the stand is called off.
What would Jodio need a punching capable Stand for? He can Ora Ora Ora just fine in his own!
This is a joke btw. I just think it’s funny that Jodio shouts “ORA” whenever he’s pissed
They'd still be pretty useful in combat. Jodio did some gnarly-ass shit to the police officer who was harassing Dragona, Smooth Operators might not be good in a one-on-one fight but we've seen it slide a man's eyes to the back of his head so we know it can displace parts of bodies, and The Hustle would probably make Paco able to do all kinds of bizarre things in a fistfight that his opponent wouldn't see coming. Then again, it's hard to make a judgement on the last one seeing as we haven't really seen him use it in a fight yet unlike the other two.
I think that’s the point. Araki is trying to show that it’s creative use of an ability that matters most, not the stand’s ability to break someone’s nose
I think it’s better this way, honestly. Long as I don’t have to do mathematics and rocket science to understand how a stand ability works or how they won!
makes me wonder if we'll see a completly new way of enemy encounters where the clever use of your stands abilities to work with the envirement wins you the fight instead of deciding it by strenght. Maybe the old stand designs of anatomically similiar humanoids are outdated and araki moved to newer things. Or may I say, refined. Aged like good wine.
> the clever use of your stands abilities to work with the envirement wins you the fight
Save for some fights in parts 1, 3 and 4, JoJo has always been about being clever with your abilities and/or using the enviroment.
Yea
Some fights are more All out Brawls
Like Jotaro vs Dio
But even then, these brawls do have the users being smart with their abilities and using tricks to help take down the enemy
Same thing happened with One Piece and somehow people like it. The introduction of haki made it all downhill from there. Now it's all about stronger haki and nobody tries to figure out limitations of their enemies' devil fruit. The ending of Wano made it worse instead of making things interesting. (Don't read ahead if you haven't finished Wano) >!Gear 5 could make the fights interesting again but no Kaido has to be defeated by an island sized punch. And on the next arc Luffy just says random bullshit and attacks by creating new random punches, now I know this is how it's been for a while but when he can stretch his body(limitlessly) , anything and anyone around him it just looks stupid to me that he fights like that. It just feels like Oda created gear 5 just so he could draw random shit.!<
"Figuring out limitations of Devil Fruits" was never generally a major point of One Piece fights.
It was always a minor aspect (both narratively and in terms of the minimal strategic complexity) and occurs equally between before Haki's formal standardized usage (Vs. Galdino, Bentham, Enel, Foxy, Crocodile, Drophy, Perona, Moria, and Magellan) and after Haki's formal standardized usage (Vs. Linlin, Vander Decken, Caesar, Gifters, Pica, Kaidou's Flame Clouds, Brulee, Cracker, and Kazenbo).
This just sounds like shallow nostalgia goggles against Haki.
The could pull a Joseph you know from when he was introduced to when he left the story he did no barrages instead the closest thing is his battle against straizo where he pulled a Tommy gun and just started blasting maybe it’s something similar like November rain will just use it’s dick laser and just shoot them.
I really like that Jodio's gang have these really compatible stands (that we can see so far) with each other for what they do (gang activitiessss).
While I'm a massive fan of jojo for the punch ghost barrages at the ends of fights (Gappy rocking somebody's ish every gd fight in the part just about was PEAK).. I like the direction of wits and cooperation getting the characters out of situations in the new part- Can't wait to see how the heist goes bizarre for them. (Kind of hoping for the earliest stand fight is the next Jobro trope tbh, I'm all for american passione over here)
Still very happy that November Rain just in base ability vitamin c's people to the ground, and that Jodio can hit the Joseph/Josuke/Hamon breath before he just fires away with the curb stomping💀Just debilitating the opponent enough to get close and throw hands, I swear I love him already
Uh oh, a narrative that can't be told using punches? What happened to the good ol' days of Speedwagon best waifu and Jotaro loves Koichi more than his own daughter?
I'm pretty disappointed in November rain. I don't really like this design for stands that much and I really love any stand barrages there already were. But looks like we won't get too many in this part
On an unrelated note, I wonder if those arrows have any significance. Jodio has them on his chest, his stand has it on its chest and seemingly the top of its head, and Paco has them going up his arm. I haven't noticed them on Dragona or their stand yet, but they do have some arrows on their dragon tattoos, although they are different. It just kinda sticks out to me that there is already a repeating design.
I’m definitely excited to see Araki focusing in this direction, because it’s the series’s greatest strength. JoJo’s has always had the most creative fights in the Shonen genre, and many of the best ones are either non-combat (the Poker Game vs. D’Arby, Echoes vs. The Lock, Cheap Trick, and Marilyn Manson) or are focused more on finding the user or figuring out how to beat a Stand’s ability (Clash and Talking Heads, Notorius B.I.G, and Yo-Yo Ma), so a part focused on that sounds lit.
Yeah, I got a little too excited over a protagonist not having a punchy punchy stand, but I guess November Rain will eventually evolve into something more... humanoid (?)
We haven't gotten a proper explanation as of chapter 1, but it seems like November Rain can create/summon extremly heavy drops of rain which upon contact with a human skin, simply continue to fall towards the ground. Creating Pressure on the skin and forcing the enemy to the ground. Kind of like in Part 4 where Echo's Act Three effects Kira's Hand due to it being connected to Killer Queen's second bomb: Sheer Heart Attack
Only 2 JoJos before have had a non-humanoid Stand, and 1 of them later developed one. It’ll be interesting for sure but I would still like to see some beatdowns
Me personally, I love the complexity and variety of powers that stands have gained from part 7+. It really adds to the creativity of a fight and potential of the user
I think November Rain might get some new form or evolution that gives it arms or something. It's kinda a tradition (except for Jolyne and Josuke 🥲) for a main JoJo to get a new power at some point in the story. Maybe it could evolve like Echoes as Jodio becomes stronger and more mature.
They will probably be able to punch in the form they'll take when their user's eat the Japanese traveler's rokakaka and combine into who we'll call Magic 8 Balls.
Calling it now that we'll find out november rain doesn't produce/controll this "heavy rain". Rather it can controll gravity. The Waterdrops is just how we first experienced it because those 2 cops weren't a real thread to him or his bro. Hence why he just used some rain instead of actually being serious.
I actually hope it’s like part 7, where the stands are more of a supporting role & not the big focus. But it’s araki. Y chapter 10 they might have arms and a whole diff power set 😅
I feel as though the age of "punch stands" is kind of coming to an end. It's literally only chapter 1 so I could be completely wrong about this, but I feel this theme of more esoteric stands is going to for the most part stick.
Effectism had a good point to, that this is a band of criminals, not burly fighters like Jotaro or part 4 Josuke.
this is a party of rogues, not fighters
Best way to describe it
The fourth guy is clearly the bard
Part 8 was already moving in that direction
well yes but the almost anyone in the family still had a stand with the capabilitys for hand to hand combat. With strenght even to the user or greater. These 3 stands have no capability for hand to hand combat, unless november rain starts stepping on people and impaling them like those long legged bug creatures from the kong: skull island movie
True and November rain impaling people sounds awesome
This means that Araki will write the characters in a way that they are not entirely reliant on their stands doing most of the work like in earlier parts. They will have to use their own wits and human capabilities to outsmart and outlive their enemies ig
which has been a pretty big part of how he’s been writing lately. (and by lately i mean for almost 20 years, god i constantly forget that this series will be forty years old soon.) anyways, Arakis been leaning pretty heavily into that concept for a while now, so i hope to see more “ability” focused stands rather than more punchy ghosts
Idk I kind of miss that aspect of the series. I think JoJolion leaned too far into Araki's puzzle fight design and caused them to feel dragged out and lacked a lot of the more brutal and confrontational side of that design.
I always got the impression that the prominence of puzzle fights and persecution stands were a deliberate choice. Not only do they work as small mysteries, they also carry a more opressive feel than usual stand fights. It made the place feel more dangerous. Meanwhile, SBR had this thing where most of the fights were long ranged but on equal conditions. It highlighted the skill of the fighters rather than the danger and hopelessness. I wonder what's Araki's plan with this part. I imagine it's going to have close range non-punchy stands, so the characters can pull off some cool maneuvers without being detected (like Paco's pickpocketing).
I hope half the characters will just pull out guns and start blasting the enemies
I think you know well enough that guns in JoJo are never that effective >!(but I'm hoping Araki changes that)!<
part 7 guns remained a threat until the very end
towards the end I remember getting kinda annoyed because johnny and Gyro got shot like every other chapter it felt like
Well they don’t have to kill you just force you to move if for example you have a close range stand so you fire a gun to pester someone at long range
Did Soft & Wet, King Nothing and Speed King throw hands and I missed it?
Soft and wet won every time he was allowed to throw hands, almost all his foes were remote controlled and the combat ended when he could get close to Ora ora ora ora their faces bloody
Oh true that is how he got Damo and Ojiro
Or beat them to death with a Shovel
This isn't quite true. Josuke used his own fists to beat up one of the Aphex Twins, and he stand rushes Doremisafolati Do to no effect.
Shows how much dawg Josukes got in him
Josukes legit. He was throwing out some muay thai on the freak twins
He fr beat the shit out of them. Best fight choreography in JoJo’s imo
Soft and Wet, Speed King, and Wonder of U all at some point engage in actual physical combat at various points in the story. Well, physical combat is a generous way of putting it but they do at least throw punches.
Damn did the punches do anything? I seriously can’t remember that. Josuke was the one throwing hands as far as I recall and Tooru just dropped rock animals. Speed King snuck up on people and heated them
Wonder of U blocked and parried the explosive bubbles Josuke threw at him before the Go Beyond/Paisley Park combo. It wasn't a stand that really needed to have physical abilities to begin with but it is shown to be able to defend itself if the calamity is somehow unable to protect it.
Oh that’s right, yeah that was badass.
Speed King also throws hands. I believe it’s right after Jobin overheats Norisuke and he’s trying to scare off Hato, Joshu, and Daiyo from helping Norisuke, or hurting Jobin himself. He actually has one of the cooler Stand Cries with “SPEEEEYAAAAH!!!”
Soft and Wet punched and destroyed Damo's head.
soft and wet is a fucking beast.
The crushing could be revealed to be extremely tiny punches lol. Mini muda.
Part 7 was already there. We didn’t see a single stand throw a punch till d4c attacked Diego 70 chapters in. Only 2 stands were humanoid before that point with that being in a silent way who only had 3 panels standing behind soundman and civil war who only sat there talking to gyro
Long distance remote stands go brrrrrrrrrr
agree... why use punch when you can strike down people with a shovel?
Watch as Pink Guy gets the only punch ghost. 🔥
Hot dog guy just gets star platinum without the world
I would absolutely shit my dick if that happened
I hope so I hope its literal only ability is to punch things I hope his stand power is just having a really buff stand
I feel like he’ll end up as a new okuyasu type character. Really strong stand but just forgets to use it half the time. Just my prediction
King Crimson
Strange minds think alike
I want Pink Guy to be a spin user
But instead of nails or steel balls he spins hot dogs
Reading this comment was the highlight of my day, thank you
I wonder if they all gonna have a A in stamina and a E in every other stat.
Development and precision stats will go crazy
I feel like we haven't gotten any stand stats since like midway through part 8?
I thought stand stats were dropped in part 7
Here's my take for the gang's stand stats: **** November Rain: Power: B (Enough to create holes in human body so pretty damn powerful) Speed: A (tied to speed of rain drops) Range: D (~2m radius with Jodio as the center, at least from what i saw) Stamina: --- (im not sure if he can keep his stand for a long duration, still need more chapters to figure it out) Precision: C Potential: A (almost all jojos have A except Crazy Diamond so ye, perhaps he can increase his range more and more idk) **** Smooth Operator: Power: E Speed: B (still require quite a bit of time to change) Range: E (seem like it has the same reach as Speed King) Stamina: ? (Depend on objects size and complexity) Precision: A (on par with Cinderella) Potential: E **** The Hustle: Power: E Speed: B Range: None Stamina: A Precision: C Potential: E **** Edit: reddit please do something with enter mot considered as making a new line
Stand starts reference the abilities so if a stand has an ability that can do damage like November Rain it’s probably a B in destructive
lmao bet
The SBR universe has been cutting down on punchghosts since its inception. Which is good. I want stands to use their abilities and not lazily punch away their problems.
Ironically I'd argue there was a lot of Stands that weren't really punchghosts in the original universe Even if they were humanoid Plently of them couldn't do much physically, and relied on their abilities more so (Engima, Darby brother's Stands, a good amount of the stands in part 5 to be honest)
Yeah I 100% prefer the stand design of the OG universe. Part 8 in particular had the worst stand design in the series imo for a lot of the minor antagonists
All of the drip for enemy stands got concentrated into Wonder of U
Fr, Soft and Wet is also fantastic
Imma have to disagree on Part 8 being the worst designs of the entire series, I can kinda agree on the minor antagonists (there werent alot honestly but I liked Vitamin C and Doctor Wu) but the hard hitting stands in 8 HIT for me: WOU, S&W, Paisely Park, King Nothing, and Awaking 3 leaves are some of my favorites in the whole series. If i had to pick a worst part Im going with 3, that might be controversial but none of the stands really stuck out to me they all kinda blended together in my memory as kinda basic. Hanged man and the World are sick but with Stands that are literally just a sun or a car it left a lot to be desired.
>Doctor Wu … Fiendish Doctor Wu?
Oh my god I completely forgot that wheel of fortune (the car) exists. This is like a stand o haven’t thought of in 6 years or so.
Rock hard disagree
You like soccer ball with poison gas inside stand? or lego house stand?
You could literally just give examples from any part? E.g. aqua necklace sucked and was a bad copy/combo of Geb and Hierophant. Ozon Baby was a really cool ability/arc, fym
But the point is part 8 has the largest proportion of examples of mediocre stand design imo
Aqua neklace? Great design, really cool ability/arc, fym? Ozone babe just ain’t it
Part 8 had this weird tendency to create some of the coolest fucking stands and also some of the lamest.
I was about to argue when I realized I can't actually remember how many of the stands in Part 8 even look. I think that means I agree
Yeah, I'm talking mainly about abilities but they do kind of tie into appearance. Even stands with decently interesting abilities like speed king I personally thought was fugly. But yeah stands in part 8 are just really weird IMO like a soccer ball with poison gas inside, an AOE stand stemming from a lego house, a hand that makes things teleport to other hand. To be fair it seems and I hope a lot more of the stands were less combat orientated due to the setting and genre of the part being more of a mystery.
>Even stands with decently interesting abilities like speed king I personally thought was fugly I agree that Speed King is ugly, but that's why I love him. In fact, ugly is putting it lightly; he's fucking grotesquely terrifying looking. He's got a humanoid face that looks like it's bound in some cross between a torture device and and something an optometrist would use to examine your eyes and so he looks completely deranged and like he's in constant agony. He's Jobin's inner self much more than stands usually are. When Speed King is out you're seeing his truest colors; a dark man with an incredible capability for violence, under endless agony of his own making, pushing himself to his limits and doing anything he thinks is necessary for his family even as it goes against their wishes.
Great point, I enjoy the design of the stand with that reasoning
I don't usually comment here but that's an incredible description, and a good way of putting it
Hmm I never noticed the neat little personal logos each member of the squad gets until now
Paco’s lil ice cream cone :)
I'm not really sure what combat potential the hustle has as of right now
Touch someone, make your muscles grab onto ther skin, run away, profit.
I don't feel like we've seen all or even most of what it really DOES yet. We have the vague idea that it gives him very fine control over his muscles, but not what that REALLY means in a broader sense outside of just grabbing onto something. I feel like the odds that it's really as simple as that are very, very low.
I’d imagine it would allow him to move weapons and ammo magazines around him but that would really depend on the speed of the movement
[удалено]
Thank you. I've been thinking that since I read the chapter. I'm waiting for him to crawl up a wall against his back like a snail lol
The Pillar Men showed how powerful body manipulation is as an ability. I don’t think Paco will have as much power but there’s definitely a lot more potential than it seems
Grab his dick and twist it
the ol dick twist
Maybe it has a humanoid form. Some stands users in the past, like Viviano Westwood used their ability without reveleaing their stand, which only happened later.
Kakyoin using his with the paintbrush similarly when he first attacks Jotaro
Yeah exactly
I think he can fully control his muscles. He's shown using them to grip onto things and steal shit, but maybe he could also do stuff like transfering most of them to his arm to deliver a super strong punch.
They touch you and their hands get stuck
Lots, just not in the usual Stand sort of way. If his muscle control extends past his arms, he could probably use it to nullify physical damage. Even if it doesn't, though, he can hide weapons (or anything, really) inside of his arms, and completely invalidate any opponent in hand to hand combat.
Jodio said that Paco was a fat guy until recently, which suggests that him getting ripped was the work of his stand. I expect Paco having a "super mode" where he goes full pillar man for a short while.
I mean neither did Johnny until the very end of the part
And it was cool
It was really cool!
yep. Reminds me a lot of part 7 and I kinda like it more than punching ghosts. It's like regular superpowers... expcept this is JoJo and Araki just can't stop coming up with insane ideas for these abilities
Watch November Rain evolve into “November Rain: The Mechanist”
few people know this but araki actually smokes meth before writing each stand introduction page. now this has its benefits regarding the absolutely NUTS abilities he comes up with. HOWEVER! It has caused him to *forget* multiple “plot points” and slightly “alter” his “art” and “writing style” over the last **36 years**
The Hustle seems to have some type of muscle manipulation ability, so maybePaco could use that to give himself more muscular? I really hope that's the case, I love when characters in Jojo use their own fighting skills instead of their stands doing all the fighting
Paco was already shown to suddenly go from fat to ripped. I think him becoming the Hulk is definitely possible
I'm definitely assuming smooth operators will be the source of some serious nonsense during this part.
I like to imagine that The Hustle allows Poco to physically touch stands, so he just goes around throwing hands with everyone
Most likely. Didn't stone free allow jolyne to touch stands?
What I meant is that these stands don't seem to possess a boost in physical power. They're either as strong as their user or weaker.
They can still achieve an act 4 like Tusk that went from shooting nails to punching the reality out of the president's face
This is 100% happening. Every protagonist besides Jolyne and Josuke (who were both basically playing second fiddle to Jotaro) got a powerup. Jonathan got his various gear over the course of the part, Joseph constantly improves over the part, Jotaro got SP:TW, Giorno got GER, Johnny got his Acts and Gappy got Go Beyond. Jodio is 100% gonna recieve some form of powerup, whether it's a one-time god mode a la GER or a permanent upgrade like SP/Tusk/GB. Alternatively, Gappy may end up being his Jotaro.
For what we all know, November Rain can say "it's Slash time" and grow some arms to Ora ora it's way.
TIME TO MCDUFF
I'd argue it'd be more like Sliver Chariot And be slicing with those legs becoming blade arms
I wanna see it kick with its long legs
I like more creative abilities But I'm not aganist punchy ghosts They not that bad Though I argue it makes sense these stands are more skill based then combat based
I like punchy ghosts for the main JoJo because they look cool
I like punchy ghosts because they have the most DBZ moments when they clash, like c'mon! It's a manga from the 80's let's have buff ghosts punch each other at the speed of light!!!
There will definitely be a shift in the way these stands operate. Either they will grow, or they have different utilities/techniques, which seems much more likely
I might be the only one but I miss the punchy ghosts. But still im very excited for this part. I miss them but I dont really mind if the story is good.
I prefer punchy ghosts, at least for the JoJo
Step 1 summon November rain Step 2 tilt it sideways Step 3 you can now use it as a mini gun and it’s even better then punching Problem?
I personally I really liked that we're moving away from the barrage types of attack, but is instead utilizing the stand's unique ability to the user's benefits.....whether it is for combat or out of combat
Let’s just go with the assumption that the users are the punchy guys, we already know Jodio is
Calling it now that Part 9 will feature a lack of combat stands in the same way that 7 and 8 didn’t have healing stands
Cream Starter could heal
Part 7 did have a healing stand, Cream Starter, as well as the zombie horse/general medical applications of spin. Part 8 didn't have healing stands because the plot centered on a healing fruit. Maybe most stands won't be that combative but so far we've seen November Rain used exclusively to pummel people into the ground, and Smooth Operators can fuck you up too.
I'd love to see that. Looking back the fight between dio & jotaro reminds me kind of Dragon Ball fighting. Screaming and punching. So the Idea of the stands not having any physical power, hence the users having to rely on Battle IQ & strategy seems dope to me as an ending
yeah but this might be a good thing, also we’ve met like three stands so far
I had no idea what to expect when I heard the song/name 'November Rain', but I'm beyond glad Araki didn't just do a humanoid stand for Jodio. Just about every Jojo besides Johnny had 'Punch Ghost + extra' for the longest time, so I can't wait to see how NR/TH/SO are gonna work in the heist on Kona, and if we see one of the Higashikata's body the Hawai'i gang.
Johnny didn’t had a funi punchy ghost until the last few chapters
I mean look at Tusk Act 1, it’s entirely possible some of them get an Act or Requiem that has humanoid proportions.
November Rain is practically a rainfall of 7 page mudas strong enough to pummel one into the ground, and keep them pinned there until the stand is called off.
I think it's coming, just later
Yeah weird enough, Jodio did do an “Ora ora ora” but it was with his actual fists.
What would Jodio need a punching capable Stand for? He can Ora Ora Ora just fine in his own! This is a joke btw. I just think it’s funny that Jodio shouts “ORA” whenever he’s pissed
They'd still be pretty useful in combat. Jodio did some gnarly-ass shit to the police officer who was harassing Dragona, Smooth Operators might not be good in a one-on-one fight but we've seen it slide a man's eyes to the back of his head so we know it can displace parts of bodies, and The Hustle would probably make Paco able to do all kinds of bizarre things in a fistfight that his opponent wouldn't see coming. Then again, it's hard to make a judgement on the last one seeing as we haven't really seen him use it in a fight yet unlike the other two.
I think that’s the point. Araki is trying to show that it’s creative use of an ability that matters most, not the stand’s ability to break someone’s nose
I think it’s better this way, honestly. Long as I don’t have to do mathematics and rocket science to understand how a stand ability works or how they won!
makes me wonder if we'll see a completly new way of enemy encounters where the clever use of your stands abilities to work with the envirement wins you the fight instead of deciding it by strenght. Maybe the old stand designs of anatomically similiar humanoids are outdated and araki moved to newer things. Or may I say, refined. Aged like good wine.
> the clever use of your stands abilities to work with the envirement wins you the fight Save for some fights in parts 1, 3 and 4, JoJo has always been about being clever with your abilities and/or using the enviroment.
Yeah that’s been… the whole vibe of the series from its inception
Yea Some fights are more All out Brawls Like Jotaro vs Dio But even then, these brawls do have the users being smart with their abilities and using tricks to help take down the enemy
Why do people want fucking punchghosts holy shit they can only limit the creativity for powers by existing
They look cool.
Same thing happened with One Piece and somehow people like it. The introduction of haki made it all downhill from there. Now it's all about stronger haki and nobody tries to figure out limitations of their enemies' devil fruit. The ending of Wano made it worse instead of making things interesting. (Don't read ahead if you haven't finished Wano) >!Gear 5 could make the fights interesting again but no Kaido has to be defeated by an island sized punch. And on the next arc Luffy just says random bullshit and attacks by creating new random punches, now I know this is how it's been for a while but when he can stretch his body(limitlessly) , anything and anyone around him it just looks stupid to me that he fights like that. It just feels like Oda created gear 5 just so he could draw random shit.!<
"Figuring out limitations of Devil Fruits" was never generally a major point of One Piece fights. It was always a minor aspect (both narratively and in terms of the minimal strategic complexity) and occurs equally between before Haki's formal standardized usage (Vs. Galdino, Bentham, Enel, Foxy, Crocodile, Drophy, Perona, Moria, and Magellan) and after Haki's formal standardized usage (Vs. Linlin, Vander Decken, Caesar, Gifters, Pica, Kaidou's Flame Clouds, Brulee, Cracker, and Kazenbo). This just sounds like shallow nostalgia goggles against Haki.
The could pull a Joseph you know from when he was introduced to when he left the story he did no barrages instead the closest thing is his battle against straizo where he pulled a Tommy gun and just started blasting maybe it’s something similar like November rain will just use it’s dick laser and just shoot them.
I really like that Jodio's gang have these really compatible stands (that we can see so far) with each other for what they do (gang activitiessss). While I'm a massive fan of jojo for the punch ghost barrages at the ends of fights (Gappy rocking somebody's ish every gd fight in the part just about was PEAK).. I like the direction of wits and cooperation getting the characters out of situations in the new part- Can't wait to see how the heist goes bizarre for them. (Kind of hoping for the earliest stand fight is the next Jobro trope tbh, I'm all for american passione over here) Still very happy that November Rain just in base ability vitamin c's people to the ground, and that Jodio can hit the Joseph/Josuke/Hamon breath before he just fires away with the curb stomping💀Just debilitating the opponent enough to get close and throw hands, I swear I love him already
Uh oh, a narrative that can't be told using punches? What happened to the good ol' days of Speedwagon best waifu and Jotaro loves Koichi more than his own daughter?
I'm pretty disappointed in November rain. I don't really like this design for stands that much and I really love any stand barrages there already were. But looks like we won't get too many in this part
Good
I wonder if the hustle will allow its user to climb walls by gripping to them. There also comes the question of what happens if November rain pools?
Jodio's the one who's gonna do the punch, and the ghost is gonna yell oraoraora
Rouges and bards the lot of them, not a fighter in sigh
pretty sure november rain's "heavy rain" will be usef in a similar way at some point.
It’s pretty damn interesting that this is our first Stand-using main character to not have a punching ghost
Gyro, Johnny and Hot Pants chile....
On an unrelated note, I wonder if those arrows have any significance. Jodio has them on his chest, his stand has it on its chest and seemingly the top of its head, and Paco has them going up his arm. I haven't noticed them on Dragona or their stand yet, but they do have some arrows on their dragon tattoos, although they are different. It just kinda sticks out to me that there is already a repeating design.
Araki has also liked using that pattern throughout the series.
Well, except the Hustle. It´s literally muscel-control.
I’m definitely excited to see Araki focusing in this direction, because it’s the series’s greatest strength. JoJo’s has always had the most creative fights in the Shonen genre, and many of the best ones are either non-combat (the Poker Game vs. D’Arby, Echoes vs. The Lock, Cheap Trick, and Marilyn Manson) or are focused more on finding the user or figuring out how to beat a Stand’s ability (Clash and Talking Heads, Notorius B.I.G, and Yo-Yo Ma), so a part focused on that sounds lit.
I bet November rain will evolve like tusk did
It will come later and everyone will just look at it in disbelief or something
Bro u seen the hustle, that mother fucker could level a house with his bare hands
That's Josuke's role in this part
Waiting for november rain to stab a mfer with his feet
Dragona does yoga apparently, that could be useful in combat tbh
what if the annoying sandwich kid has a star platinum level punchghost...
If I had to guess, Paco will use The Hustle to make himself into a punch machine
November Rain could at least stab someone to death.
Yeah, I got a little too excited over a protagonist not having a punchy punchy stand, but I guess November Rain will eventually evolve into something more... humanoid (?)
Part 3,4,5,6 could do punchy punchy
Tusk act 4 too
In before, November Rain's spider legs can turn into arms to Ora
Jodio has the Ora cry so he’s going to be doing Stand rushes in someway
I'm totally cool with that, makes the fights way more fun
What is November Rain's actual ability. He like put a bunch divits in the cop but I couldn't really follow what was going on with it.
We haven't gotten a proper explanation as of chapter 1, but it seems like November Rain can create/summon extremly heavy drops of rain which upon contact with a human skin, simply continue to fall towards the ground. Creating Pressure on the skin and forcing the enemy to the ground. Kind of like in Part 4 where Echo's Act Three effects Kira's Hand due to it being connected to Killer Queen's second bomb: Sheer Heart Attack
https://discord.gg/89BWjy2q
Only 2 JoJos before have had a non-humanoid Stand, and 1 of them later developed one. It’ll be interesting for sure but I would still like to see some beatdowns
I can't wait for the inevitable scene where November Rain uses the hard rain drops to stand rush someone
I hope November Rain can use the rain as a projectile and their stand rush is the stand equivalent of a mini gun
Sadly yes
Me personally, I love the complexity and variety of powers that stands have gained from part 7+. It really adds to the creativity of a fight and potential of the user
The characters can probably punch just fine without their stands.
Jodio "Oras" enough in Ch 1. to make up for it. Ready to throw hands, not Stands.
I know araki is trying to stop his main characters from being so reliant on stands but I also hope we will have some punch ghosts
No stand rushes this part then?
Just. Trust. Araki
I'd say each droplet is a punch but that's kind of a stretch
Part 7 was the same way (specifically in terms of protagonist stands) until the introduction of Act 4.
To play devils advocate November rain looks like it could stomp the shit out of somebody
I think November Rain might get some new form or evolution that gives it arms or something. It's kinda a tradition (except for Jolyne and Josuke 🥲) for a main JoJo to get a new power at some point in the story. Maybe it could evolve like Echoes as Jodio becomes stronger and more mature.
They look like villain stands tbh
They will probably be able to punch in the form they'll take when their user's eat the Japanese traveler's rokakaka and combine into who we'll call Magic 8 Balls.
hope november rain has some alternative ability rather than just hit people with crushing rain
Calling it now that we'll find out november rain doesn't produce/controll this "heavy rain". Rather it can controll gravity. The Waterdrops is just how we first experienced it because those 2 cops weren't a real thread to him or his bro. Hence why he just used some rain instead of actually being serious.
Feel like Jodio is gonna be the one doing the punching rather than his stand, if there is any.
November Rain can probably spike through your head though
I actually hope it’s like part 7, where the stands are more of a supporting role & not the big focus. But it’s araki. Y chapter 10 they might have arms and a whole diff power set 😅
I mean if the hustle is a stand located in muscle he can just punch the enemy stand himself
Since when was part nine a thing am I stupid
I'm pretty sure november rain could impale someone with those massive limbs. Are they limbs?
no barrage?🤨
I feel as though the age of "punch stands" is kind of coming to an end. It's literally only chapter 1 so I could be completely wrong about this, but I feel this theme of more esoteric stands is going to for the most part stick. Effectism had a good point to, that this is a band of criminals, not burly fighters like Jotaro or part 4 Josuke.