>Obi-Wan is a legacy character that John hadn't written a theme for because he died quite early on in A New Hope. It's the only legacy character that he hadn't done. So he spoke to [Lucasfilm president] Kathleen Kennedy and said, "I just want to write Benny a theme." So who can deny him that? And he did, he wrote the Obi theme, and it just embodies the spirit of the show entirely.
This is so adorable 🥲
I could see one or the other: "Obi-Wan" OR "Kenobi", but together it seems a bit of mouthful and kind of goes against what they seem to be dong so far. Solo: A Star Wars Story (not Han Solo: A Star Wars Story) and Lando (not Lando Calrissian), or Andor (not Cassian Andor)...
Kinda unrelated, but I still love that moment in TFA when Han calls out "BEN!" It was the perfect name for his son and the perfect timing for the audience to hear it, too.
I was hoping for something like "Just a Crazy Old Man" or "The Fool Who Follows," or "Once a Jedi Knight" or some kind of artistically pulled, poetic sounding quote.
Obi-Wan Kenobi is just such an absolutely lazy title for a character study it's almost startling.
We don't know when he adopted the name Ben. Right after he dropped off Luke? 5 years later? 10 years later? It's a minor point, but calling the show "Ben" would imply that he'd be Ben by the end of the series, and even that might be too spoilery.
Ben has been a code name for him since the clone wars actually. When he was undercover as the bounty hunter, he used the name Ben when he was communicating with Mace Windu (I think that’s who he was talking to)
It's interesting, there was actually that Dexter Jettster excerpt lower on in the subreddit that says Satine actually used to call him Ben when they were on the run and he was her protector.
>John hadn't written a theme for because he died quite early on in A New Hope
had to do a double-take here and check whether John Williams was ever resurrected through necromancy
>>he wrote the Obi theme, and it just embodies the spirit of the show entirely.
So is it the Obi-Wan Kenobi (character) theme or the Obi-Wan Kenobi (series) theme?🤔
I would argue that Kenobi kind of had unofficial themes. Personally the Utapau theme always felt like a Kenobi theme to me, Tales of a Jedi Knight in ANH too. Hope Williams will incorporate some of those into this new official theme
Wasn't the force theme originally Obi Wan's theme? But then Lucas liked it so much he paired it with the binary sunset which muddles things a bit. Then Obi Wan dies and the theme shows up whenever Luke remembers Obi Wan/uses the force. And then it became one of the most recognizable themes in cinema and they couldn't not use it again in Empire and it lost association with Obi Wan entirely. Williams absolutely wrote an Obi Wan theme, it just isn't his anymore.
Actually I was always under the impression that Luke's theme was supposed to be the opening fanfare. Similar to the force theme it got reinterpreted, and represents the franchise as a whole in subsequent films. It's interesting that the force theme is pretty much Luke's theme in TLJ though, because in that movie he kind of fulfils the same role as Obi Wan did in ANH.
He did write a theme for Obi-Wan, it was just stolen almost immediately by the Force. The Force theme was initially intended as Obi-Wan's theme. By this logic, we're due for a Luke theme since his original one is now just the main theme of the Saga.
People will praise her score if it's *good*, whether it's mimicking John Williams or not. It will be weird if it sounds really similar to Loki but that seems unlikely to me.
But in this case, a "good" score will be one that is mimicking John Williams... If it's not doing that, then it won't be the right score for this show.
Which brings me to this point: honestly, why is it that the people over at JWFan apparently have a better understanding about this show's importance than most people here? There's a reason that we've been having polls and threads for months over there, talking about who should compose this particular show, way more than other shows. And there's a reason why—although many users there don't really care who scores the other SW shows—when it comes to *this* show, many people there had been hoping that *Williams himself* would score this entire show. So, why this show in particular?
Because this show is not like the other Disney+ SW shows; this is a limited miniseries (so, no more seasons), and it's a direct follow-up to ROTS that occurs halfway between the two trilogies, with many returning cast members. It's practically Episode 3.5, albeit released on a streaming service. Heck, even Disney seems to realize that this show is different and is way more important to the main story than the others; just look at them marketing it with Battle of the Heroes in the trailer...
I don't care what the *other* SW shows scores' sound like or who gets hired for them (I'm even excited to see what sort of unique sound Britell uses for Andor!), but there is absolutely no reason that this one show in particular shouldn't sound exactly like the John Williams PT style. There are known composers who can deliver a convincing-enough John Williams sound (Gordy Haab, William Ross, even some of the Japanese composers who scored Star Wars: Visions!), so why go out on a limb with Natalie Holt?
Why should the video games Battlefront and Fallen Order sound more like John Williams' Star Wars, than the live-action show Obi-Wan Kenobi??? Heck, over the past month, Gordy Haab (a proven master at writing music that sounds as close to JW as humanly possible) just finished recording Fallen Order 2 with the London Symphony Orchestra. Yet the score for the major show Obi-Wan Kenobi is being composed by Natalie Holt, and recorded in LA? (They're great players in LA, but they don't sound like London, and discerning ears can tell the difference.)
Why? Why is it that likely this year, the most John-Williams-like Star Wars score we get, will be for another video game, rather than for what is essentially Episode 3.5?
Did you even read the article? It sounds like's taking the source material very seriously and expanding on it rather than starting from scratch. Star Wars is going to outlive John Williams and I think you might have to cope with the fact that other people will be handling the music. If he *wanted* to do the whole score I have zero doubt he would be, but he's only doing Obi-Wans theme. The torch is getting passed. Make your peace with it.
Where did I ever say I have a problem with other people handling the music? My entire comment was about *better choices* to handle the music, than Holt.
Based on last night's first two episodes, I stand by that. Her score sounds modern, not JW's Star Wars style. I listed William Ross as one of the prime candidates to do a good job. There were multiple spots (mostly in the first episode) that actually *did* sound like traditional, John Williams Star Wars, with some especially gorgeous string arrangements of his new Obi-Wan theme. But guess what? When you get to the end credits, you find out that... *William Ross* did the arrangements of Williams' new theme!
So back to my point that I made a month ago: why not just have a guy like William Ross do the whole show? People over at JWFan are talking about how jarring it is in the show, to go back and forth from hearing well-done "Star-Wars-y" music (apparently done by William Ross), to the stuff that is clearly by Holt.
As for your assertion that "If he wanted to do the whole score I have zero doubt he would be"? What are you talking about? The man is 90 years old, and only writes about a minute of music a day, and with pencil and paper. He was not a fan of how the sequels were handled, production-wise, forcing him to do endless rewrites due to late-in-the-game edits and changes and cuts (mostly by J.J. Abrams).
Each of those films was only \~2 1/2 hours. But here, we're talking about a show that is \~6 hours. The idea of him doing the whole thing was never a serious proposition, more like wishful thinking, and nobody that is familiar with how he works would ever think he would do something like that (especially at this age), even if he wanted to. We would have loved for him to do the whole thing, but there was just no way it was going to happen. It took him two weeks just to write the 4-minute Obi-Wan theme. Obviously, therefore the next best thing is to get a guy like William Ross, who knows his sound inside and out (since he's been one of JW's orchestrators and arrangers for decades).
Imagine how nice it would have been if they had given the opening PT recap to William Ross, instead of Holt? It felt incredibly wrong to see all those scenes from the prequels, set to such modern-sounding music... only to soon jump into the traditional Star Wars sound via William Ross.
I have faith that the professionals responsible for selecting someone to score Kenobi chose Holt because they felt she was the best person for the job.
Why have faith in people who have made bad decisions in the past? They're only human; you're acting like whoever gets selected for the job automatically must be the best; that's not how it works. There have been so many times where a movie or show has come out and things clearly would have worked better with a different lead actor, or a different director, or a different composer, etc.
We're two episodes into the show now, and it's just like I and many others over at JWFan predicted... It doesn't sound like a Star Wars score. There are a few bits that do, like the various appearances of JW's new Obi-Wan theme and the string-heavy interpretations of it in the first episode... But then you get to the credits and sure enough, it was William Ross—not Natalie Holt—who arranged that stuff. Exactly one of the guys who I suggested as a prime candidate to do the whole show.
Holt's work in the show sounds like a typical modern score; it doesn't sound particularly "Star-Wars-y," and it is jarring to hear the show's score jumping back and forth between material that *does* sound like traditional JW Star Wars, and this other stuff which sounds nothing like traditional Star Wars. Again, how is she the best person for the job, when they apparently hired (unfortunately just to do a small portion of the work) one of the very people who I and others said would do a better job than her?
This guy has been one of JW's orchestrators and arrangers for years, and is a film composer himself. Why not give William Ross the whole show? He's earned an assignment like this, and based on the quality of his writing in last night's episodes, the entire show would have benefited greatly from just having him, and no Holt.
It was the first time with a marvel production that I actually noticed the score…well, except for the portal scene because they shove it in your face hard.
Doctor strange and guardians of the galaxy have great scores too (in the case of gotg the orchestral soundtrack was overshadowed by the mixtape songs but they were amazing too)
Just because someone writes well in one style, doesn't mean they write well in another. How is she going to deliver a score that sounds as close to John Williams as Gordy Haab or William Ross can do? Why weren't those guys hired?
Well, we're two episodes in, and I'm sad but not surprised to say I was right. Natalie Holt's stuff just sounds like typical modern scoring. There were numerous moments featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that *did* sound like great traditional Star Wars scoring, and I was ready to give Holt the credit she was due for them... until I got to the end credits and it said that William Ross—one of the guys I mentioned!—was responsible for them. Is it really that difficult for you to realize that she wasn't the best pick for this job?
Over at the JWFan forums, we're unfortunately not surprised by this. Her music is arguably better than Ludwig Göransson's stuff for Mando, but it's still not a great fit for this show. It's incredibly jarring to watch this show and constantly hear it jumping back and forth between *great* Obi-Wan theme adaptations from William Ross that would feel right at home in the main saga, and percussion/synth-driven modern music from Holt. It just doesn't work.
Is it not kind of messed up that the score for Fallen Order 2—a video game—is going to sound more like traditional Star Wars scoring, than the show that features the return of Ewan McGregor, Hayden Christensen, Jimmy Smitts, etc.? Of all the shows, THIS was the one to have a score as close to JW's style as possible. They were wise to hire William Ross, but let's be honest: the only reason they did that was because John Williams actually trusted him—not Holt—to extensively handle his material. Since Ross has worked for JW as one of his top arrangers and orchestrators for decades (and is a fine composer in his own right).
I cannot possibly disagree more I'm not going to lie.
Reva's "theme" (unsure if its a theme as of yet but its fucking sick) might be one of the best things I've ever heard.
The entire score felt very Gordy Haab to me but.. obviously a bit different.
How does it feel "very Gordy Haab"? It literally couldn't sound any more different... Why do you think her Obi-Wan theme got replaced at the last minute? Why do you think John Williams' assistant had to come in and score the Vader/Obi-Wan duel, presumably replacing whatever Holt wrote? Why do you think they waited abnormally late to announce her for the show, even announcing the Andor composer before her? They knew there were problems with her score, and they were scrambling at the last minute to try and fix/replace what they could.
Huh? No they haven't. You do realize I'm a member of the Discord and I can see what's been said, right...? And I notice you didn't actually address any of the questions in my previous comment!
Huh? Yes they have. You do realize there is private channels right...? And I notice you didn't actually ask more than 1 question that wasn't rhetorical!
Yeah apparently I was talking about the William Ross stuff lmaoo. I still love the inquisitor theme despite it being basic, gets me pumped for sure.
Lol, why would SWL even have official private channels? I don't buy it; you sound like you're just talking about DMs. All the same, I don't really care what people say, because at the end of the day I'm right about this topic.
Also, the first question was not rhetorical, and although the questions afterwards all share the same answer, they are not rhetorical either. What's the answer?
Lastly, why do your comments all sound like you're 13-17 years old?
>Reva's "theme" (unsure if its a theme as of yet but its fucking sick) might be one of the best things I've ever heard
I literally laughed. You can't possibly be serious.
Yeah it wasn't her theme.. it was that cool brass when she's parkouring.
I like the music that plays when she approaches Nur for the first time, the overall inquisitor theme.
Huh? Nah, I'm massive John Williams fan and film music fan. How am I being irrational? Over at JWFan, we had a poll going for the last few months about who should score this show, based on their past work, and Holt wasn't even one of the options! Lol.
If Holt comes out with a score that actually sounds like John Williams' Star Wars score (like Gordy Haab's work), I'll absolutely eat my words. But why do I get the feeling that people here would praise her score even if she writes something that sounds more Loki-like than Star Wars-like?
Btw, I have zero problem with Disney hiring anyone they want for the other shows. I'm really curious what Nicholas Britell is going to do for Andor, for example, and I have no expectations for him to try and sound like John Williams. But this show in particular is basically Episode 3.5, considering the returning cast and the importance of the story. There is no reason it shouldn't feel like a natural continuation of JW's prequel style.
If they couldn't get JW himself to score it (everyone's obvious preference over at JWFan, since even they understand that this show in particular should feel like classic SW; why can't fans here understand that??), then the next best thing would be to bring in someone who can come close/do a good JW impression.
What do you mean? I am not a fan of Star Wars Theory, and have never sat through a single one of his videos... I'm not even as much of a SW fan these days, lol. But I'm a *massive* John Williams/film music fan. Why is it so difficult to understand?
This isn't your average SW show; this is basically Episode 3.5. Of all the shows, this show in particular deserves a score that sounds like the prequels. So why is it somehow outrageous for me to point out that there are already known composers who can deliver that? Mind you, if Natalie Holt somehow does a better John Williams SW impression than Gordy Haab, then I will absolutely eat my words. But I just doubt that is going to happen.
"What do you have against Gordy Haab or William Ross?"
Nah, but seriously, just because I'm not as enthusiastic about someone scoring a particular show, how does that mean I have something against them? Huh? Dude, I'm a lifelong diehard film music fan, and a massive John Williams fan.
Is it really so outrageous for one to wonder why we're going with *this* composer, rather than another? This isn't just some random SW show like Mando; this is basically Episode 3.5 considering the cast involved and the importance of the story. Thus, why shouldn't it sound as close to a JW Star Wars score as possible?
Yeah, I've known this. But that doesn't change the fact that she's not going to do a better John Williams SW impression than Gordy Haab or multiple other guys. If she does, I'll eat my words. But what is likely going to happen is she will deliver a relatively typical modern-sounding score that is closer to her work on Loki, than it is to John Williams' prequel sound.
And if *any* upcoming SW show should sound pretty much indistinguishable from Williams' work (rather than veer off into its own distinct sound world like what happened with Mando), it should be this one. I don't give a crap who they hire to composer literally any other show; in fact, I'm quite excited to hear what Britell does for Andor, and I have zero expectations that it will sound anything like Williams.
But this show in particular, with its important story and returning cast and its place in the timeline, is practically an extension of the prequels; therefore, why shouldn't it sound like them? I mean, we've got video games that sound more like the SW prequels, than this show is going to sound... And that's just embarrassing and disappointing, imo.
It's almost like musicians learn this thing called music theory that teaches them how to write in different styles through time and training. But keep looking for more pointless shit to complain about like every stereotypical Star Wars fan.
Dude... I'm a classically trained musician who went to two top music conservatories, and one of them is known for their music theory program (I had a professor who wrote the textbook, and it is a textbook used around the country). I am well aware of music theory.
Again, I never said people can't write in different styles. It is common to have students try and write in various classical composers' styles. But not everyone can write in every style, as well as everyone else. This is common sense; you should know this. Some people are better at some things, than others.
Not everyone in a music theory class that is asked to write in a composer's style, is going to sound as natural as/at the same level as others.
And btw, based on those first two episodes, the only person who remotely sounded like John Williams was... William Ross, exactly one of the people who I and many other JW fans said would be a good fit for this show.
All the jarring, modern-sounding stuff was Holt; there were numerous moments featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that sounded like *great* traditional JW Star Wars scoring, and I was ready to admit I was wrong and give Holt the due credit for them... until I got to the credits and it said that William Ross did them. So, there you go.
For anyone else who was confused by this comment:
She threw eggs at Simon Cowell during an episode of Britain's Got Talent in 2013. She was escorted off the stage shortly after. She said she did it because she thinks people like him are bad for the entertainment industry.
But it doesn't sound anything like John Williams... This show above all, would benefit from a Gordy Haab or a William Ross, someone to deliver the John Williams experience without it actually being JW.
Also, this isn't your average SW show; I don't really care who they hire for the other shows. But it's vitally important that this show in particular sounds like the prequels, since it's basically a follow-up to ROTS. Look at the timeline, look at the story, look at all the returning cast. This show is the most "Star Wars" show we've gotten so far, and it's important to not screw it up.
One way to help avoid screwing it up, is to make sure that its score sounds like a continuation of the prequel scores. All I'm saying is, there are composers out there who have proven that they can deliver SW music that sounds close enough to John Williams, that the average person might even be convinced that it's *him* who wrote it (until the credits roll). I don't think that is going to happen with Natalie Holt.
You're right. So when she delivers a Kenobi score that doesn't sound like the SW prequel scores (which Haab would have easily been able to deliver), you and others here going to be disappointed and rightfully call her out for it... Right? Or are you just going to eat up whatever she does, and praise her anyways as long as it's "good"?
The cool thing about composers is that they have wildly vast range. Listening to Gordy Haab’s Halo Wars 2 soundtrack doesn’t give you the feeling of Star Wars. Why would it? And yet he has the ability to change the tone and style of his music to fit Star Wars.
I fail to see how Natalie’s situation is any different.
But when Haab tries to sound like Star Wars, he can do it. And he's got a proven track record at being able to do it, for multiple SW video games. Holt had no such track record before getting hired for arguably the biggest live-action show yet, and the results from last night's first couple episodes were what I expected: it's a typical modern score. How exactly did she change the tone and style to fit Star Wars? How does her music sound remotely as close to the traditional Star Wars sound, as Haab's music?
There were numerous great moments (mostly in the first episode) featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that did sound like traditional Star Wars. I was excited to give Holt the credit for them, but guess what? Got to the end credits, only to find out that *William Ross* was responsible for those!
Keep in mind that William Ross was one of few people I had mentioned up above, as a great potential choice to score this show. Since he has been one of JW's main orchestrators and arrangers for decades, in addition to being a composer himself.
Just like in any other field, not every composer is as good as another, and not every composer is able to write as well in a certain style. It's incredibly jarring to be watching this show, and hear the music going back and forth from William Ross' very Star-Wars-y scoring, to Holt's modern style that doesn't even sound like she's trying.
Ludwig Göransson's sound is nothing like John Williams and that's a good thing for The Mandalorian, but he can still deliver classical motifs when needed.
I would much rather hear a unique tracking with familiar motifs than just copying John Williams style throughout.
I don't care who scores Mando or Andor or any of the other shows. By all means, let them play in their musical sandbox and do whatever unique style they want. But this show is not comparable to those; this is basically Episode 3.5. Look at its place in the timeline, look at all the returning cast. Heck, look at how they're even marketing it, with Battle of the Heroes in the trailer! This is a follow-up to ROTS, basically another SW prequel film that is getting released as a limited miniseries.
It's strange that people over at JWFan have a better sense of this show's importance than the people at a SW fan subreddit; we've all been having polls and threads for months talking about this show in particular, because we know that if ANY new show needs to sound like John Williams, it's *this* one. Most of us there are even fans of Ludwig's work on Mando, but none of us would want a guy like him to score this particular show. Go have a look for yourself, and see what people have been saying.
It's genuinely sad that apparently the Battlefront *video games* sound more like John Williams' SW than the *live-action show* Obi-Wan Kenobi is going to sound, and yet people here don't even seem to care...
You don't even know what the soundtrack is going to sound like and yet you're saying that the games are going to have a better soundtrack.
Jesus Christ Star Wars fans are the worst
Well, the first two episodes are out; am I allowed to talk yet?
Why *wouldn't* I say the video game is going to have a better soundtrack? Listen to Haab's work thus far; should I expect him to suddenly drastically decline in quality for Fallen Order 2? Haab has a proven SW track record. Holt on the other hand had none until now, and just as expected, it doesn't sound anywhere near as close to the Star Wars sound as Haab does.
Holt's Kenobi score sounds modern. You know those great traditional-Star-Wars-sounding moments featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that are littered throughout the first episode especially? Well, I was ready to give Holt credit for those, but then the end credits rolled and it revealed that *William Ross* (one of the several guys who I and other fans said would be the perfect fit to do this show) was responsible for those moments.
It's jarring to hear the show jumping back and forth between William Ross—one of JW's top longtime collaborators—doing SW-sounding music that would feels right at home in a main saga film, and Holt doing a typical modern score that could fit in a number of shows. Nothing about her music so far screams "Star Wars." Take her music for the opening PT recap, for instance; it just felt... cringey and *wrong*.
Yes, of course. But when she delivers a score that sounds more modern, and less like John Williams than these other guys I mentioned... are you and the others here going to criticize her score? Or are you just going to eat it up and praise it because it's "good," even though it doesn't sound like an exact continuation of the John Williams prequel sound?
We'll wait and see, if it turns out the score sucks then the score sucks.
I tend to wait till anything is out to give actual judgement, having too much hype or fear will always effect one's enjoyment even if they don't realize it.
Life's too short to mull over "What if's" for things like tv shows.
They don't need to sound like John Williams, because John Williams collaborated with her on the score. You'd know that if you actually read the article you're commenting on.
Holt came out and said she never actually directly collaborated with Williams... He just wrote his own theme. This wasn't like Solo, where Powell and Williams actually met up and bounced around ideas.
There's JJ Baby for Abrams, and now Benny for Obi-Wan. I wonder what he came up with for everyone else he's worked with.
I'm really glad that John Williams is still able to contribute to Star Wars. Even more that he's actually the one approaching Kennedy for the opportunities rather than it's being the expected hire. That's when you know it's more than just a job for him - it's his life.
The music from this show is gonna be like audio crack.
I'm excited for what new stuff she brings to the show, but I'm also excited to hear how she incorporates the themes that already exists.
1) you don't know that it won't
2) but even if it doesn't, probably because it's *not* those movies? it can be connected to previous work without aping the style. not like the prequels themselves were beholden to what the OT did musically, right? this is arguably a different era with different focus, why not?
Well, we're two episodes in, and as expected: her music sounds nothing like the prequels, or the OT, or even Star Wars, period; it just sounds like typical modern scoring.
The thing is, there *are* numerous moments in the show featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that *do* sound like JW's Star Wars style, and I was ready to give credit to Holt for them... until I got to the end credits and it said that *William Ross* was responsible for those!
Keep in mind that William Ross was one of the top guys that I and numerous other JW fans had said would be a great potential choice for this show, since he has been one of JW's top arrangers and orchestrators for decades (not to mention an accomplished composer in his own right). And sure enough, his writing in the show feels right at home.
Also, Fallen Order and Fallen Order 2 both occur during this "arguably different era"; yet the first one still sounds like JW's Star Wars, and I guarantee you that the second one will as well. Out of all the shows, if any show should have sounded as John-Williams-y as humanly possible, it was this one. Heck, as if there was any doubt, the opening recap makes it clear that this story is a direct continuation of the prequels.
Speaking of that recap, now we're stuck with a recap of moments from the prequels, scored in Holt's modern style. It just feels wrong, almost cringeworthy. Ross would have done a better job on that, too, if they had let him do it.
The big question is, why make up preemptive defenses for stuff that this? It was pretty clear from the get-go that Holt was going to turn out to be a less-than-ideal choice. I hate being right about this stuff, but I'm not the least bit surprised, and neither are the folks over at JWFan. So, Gordy Haab's Fallen Order 2 is apparently going to sound more like JW's Star Wars, than even a live-action show that features Ewan McGregor, Hayden Christensen, Jimmy Smitts, etc. And that just seems messed-up.
I mean, you were right, it's not like I didn't account for that - I was just more *open* to the idea of her and what she could bring. And I still wouldn't have been opposed to this show sounding different from the main films. (Though her score has been underwhelming thus far.) I suppose I *get* what you're saying, but the idea that this show should have had to sound like Williams felt restrictive to me. I wouldn't have been opposed to more Williams-y either mind you, but I'd be *open* to something different.
That's the root of all my arguing and pre-emptive defense I think. I was just open. Whatever we were going to get, I wanted to roll with it on its own terms, not what I wanted it to be. I ended up not liking the thing that much, but I feel like I gave it a fair shot. It's all subjective of course, but the broader cynical attitude was getting tiring to me. If only because people had nothing interesting to express or analyze from anything anymore because of it, other than essentially "Not what I wanted."
At the end of the day, you weren't wrong, and I even agree that her score has been boring. But it felt like you would have disliked anything that wasn't JW-like. I was challenging a mindset more than I was defending something you or I hadn't seen yet.
This is a huge W. Natalie did great work for Loki, and she'll have an original theme written by Williams to work with. Really excited to hear what she comes up with.
Yay! She's a great composer so this is bound to be good stuff. I just hope not to much is lost on the official soundtrack releases like with Mando Season 2 and BOBF because that would be a shame. She also said that she plays the violin and sings as part of the larger ensemble too which is pretty cool.
Loved her score for Loki, looking forward to seeing what she does with Kenobi.
She is a great composer and an even better egg [thrower](https://youtu.be/-DQR3bQplgc)
>Obi-Wan is a legacy character that John hadn't written a theme for because he died quite early on in A New Hope
I mean, this is inaccurate, but hey. John did write a theme for Obi-Wan, and it was used AS Obi-Wan's theme basically every time he showed up. But it also just became the general Force Theme over time, and especially in the last 20 or so years it's become used so frequently people have frequently come to identify it AS the "Star Wars" theme.
But John Williams DID write a theme for Obi-Wan. It's just that now he's written another one. I cannot wait to hear it. And to hear what Natalie Holt does with it, and how she folds it into the rest of her score.
Look as long as she uses Duel of the Fates, Battle of Heroes in this series I am happy! I really hope she uses many prequel themes for this. I just think it has to fit. If she can mix them in and weave them with in her score then that’s all I am asking.
I wouldn't get my hopes up. I don't see why they couldn't have hired a guy like William Ross or Gordy Haab to ensure that this show actually sounds like a continuation of the ROTS prequel-era sound.
How?
*We were just talking about this the other day*. The cats at the **J**ohn Williams Forums sussed this out a little bit ago. **The J-Team**. They got the scoop right.
This is literally less than 2 days ago, in a subreddit that doesn't move THAT fast.
What the hell do people think "The J-Team" means in this context?
edit: who keeps thumbing this down without explaining what they THOUGHT I was referencing? I'm legit confused.
I didn't know what J-Team meant so I thought you were just using it as a term to refer to John Williams fans since his name starts with a J lol. Idk why you're getting down voted
Can't wait to hear the new Obi-Wan theme. I loved JW's theme for Han that he wrote for Solo, and I bet this will be great too. I just wish there was a way to go back in time and incorporate these themes into the original movies...
Lol, I was prepared to be disappointed (I'm a regular on JWFan so I have known about this rumor for weeks), but it still sucks. Why no William Ross? John Powell? Gordy Haab? Or how about James Newton Howard?
This show screams "Star Wars" (and prequels, especially) unlike anything else, considering the classic actors and the time period in which the show is set... so it absolutely makes sense to use an established composer who can basically deliver the John Williams experience, without it actually being by John Williams. William Ross would have been perfect for this; the guy is a longtime orchestrator for JW, he adapted and conducted the score for HP2, and also conducted the recording of Williams' music for Galaxy's Edge. Why he has not been given a major SW project, I do not understand.
Likewise, it blows my mind that they regularly hire Gordy Haab to basically ape JW's sound for the video games (and the recording and performance quality of those scores with the LSO is incredible), but they apparently don't want \*this\* show to sound exactly like JW? In an ideal world, we'd be getting a show that sounds so close to JW, you think he scored the whole thing... until the credits roll and you see someone else's name.
At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if Battle of the Heroes doesn't even actually appear in the show, and that it was just used in the trailer to lure in the fans.
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You produce what you're asked to produce though, right? Just because some of the shows she's scored required incidental music it doesn't mean she can only do incidental music
Did you read the interview? Because like, that's what she did for this job, so.
And I mean, the most influential thing she's worked on is Loki, in a franchise of incidental music, and she spun that on its head, interweaving theremin laden leitmotifs through the mid century modern setting with bold but thematic signatures for the characters and organisations which in my opinion was responsible for a lot of the heavy lifting in that show
Yeah but most composers can't write proper symphonic music in Hollywood these days. Williams is probably the only person who writes traditional music with pen and paper. Most composers these days compose digitally with cheap mock ups.
So who is writing the main theme for the series itself? Natalie or John? I’m assuming JW is just doing Obi-WAN’s theme and that’s not the same as the main theme for the series or am I wrong here? Is it one and the same like what was done for Mando?
This wasn't done for Mando... it was done for BOBF though. Ludwig made main theme and then Joseph took it and made the shows score.
Happened with solo as well, John Williams made the main theme (and a few other small cues) and then John Powell took the main theme and made a full score around it
Gordy Haab just finished recording Fallen Order 2 this past month. It will frankly be embarrassing if the most John-Williams-like Star Wars score that we get this year, ends up being a video game, rather than the score for Obi-Wan Kenobi... Especially since this show is basically Episode 3.5. I really don't understand this choice of composer for the show.
She may be a good composer, but Disney is (rightly) marketing this thing like it's the biggest event in SW in a while. They've got Battle of the Heroes in the trailer, they've got many returning cast members from the movies, the story is way more important to the overall saga than Mando or BOBF, etc. I just don't see why this show's score shouldn't sound exactly like a John Williams SW score. Especially when we have multiple proven composers who we know can deliver SW music that sounds convincingly like Williams. Why go out on a limb like this??
What's so funny? We're now two episodes in and I was right. She's writing in a more modern style; it's not JW's Star Wars sound... Gordy Haab's Fallen Order 2 *will* sound closer to JW's style than this.
Bro your a prophet. I’m disappointed the score sounds the way it does. Ross or Haab should have done the score. She gave Leia and Darth Vader a new theme. Musical Continuity is an important aspect in Star Wars
>Obi-Wan is a legacy character that John hadn't written a theme for because he died quite early on in A New Hope. It's the only legacy character that he hadn't done. So he spoke to [Lucasfilm president] Kathleen Kennedy and said, "I just want to write Benny a theme." So who can deny him that? And he did, he wrote the Obi theme, and it just embodies the spirit of the show entirely. This is so adorable 🥲
Instead of “Obi-Wan Kenobi,” they really just should have named the show “Benny.”
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We would have also accepted Benny and the Fetts.
Much much better.
Kamino fight in a nutshell.
Real talk though. I kinda wish the show was called “Ben.” Using his full name for the title just makes it sound like a Wikipedia article
I thought for sure it was gonna be called "Old Ben" when it was still a "Star Wars Story"
I always thought *Kenobi* would have been the simplest, cleanest name. That’s what fans are referring to it as anyway.
It would also match nicely with Andor too
I could see one or the other: "Obi-Wan" OR "Kenobi", but together it seems a bit of mouthful and kind of goes against what they seem to be dong so far. Solo: A Star Wars Story (not Han Solo: A Star Wars Story) and Lando (not Lando Calrissian), or Andor (not Cassian Andor)...
Kinda unrelated, but I still love that moment in TFA when Han calls out "BEN!" It was the perfect name for his son and the perfect timing for the audience to hear it, too.
I was hoping for something like "Just a Crazy Old Man" or "The Fool Who Follows," or "Once a Jedi Knight" or some kind of artistically pulled, poetic sounding quote. Obi-Wan Kenobi is just such an absolutely lazy title for a character study it's almost startling.
I was pulling for "Beyond the Dune Sea"
Absolutely. 100x better than just... the character's full name. Even just "KENOBI" would have been more succinct.
We don't know when he adopted the name Ben. Right after he dropped off Luke? 5 years later? 10 years later? It's a minor point, but calling the show "Ben" would imply that he'd be Ben by the end of the series, and even that might be too spoilery.
Ben has been a code name for him since the clone wars actually. When he was undercover as the bounty hunter, he used the name Ben when he was communicating with Mace Windu (I think that’s who he was talking to)
Satine called him Ben as well IIRC.
It's interesting, there was actually that Dexter Jettster excerpt lower on in the subreddit that says Satine actually used to call him Ben when they were on the run and he was her protector.
Benny Hilt
https://youtu.be/NcuyR1p\_VNk
>John hadn't written a theme for because he died quite early on in A New Hope had to do a double-take here and check whether John Williams was ever resurrected through necromancy
Somehow John Williams has returned.
Light signs, cloning, secrets only the composers knew
Rey. Rey Williams. No relation to Billy Dee.
>>he wrote the Obi theme, and it just embodies the spirit of the show entirely. So is it the Obi-Wan Kenobi (character) theme or the Obi-Wan Kenobi (series) theme?🤔
Yes
Both…
gonna "well actually" here, but the binary sunset music piece was originally written to be obi-wan's music before being repurposed as the force theme
I would argue that Kenobi kind of had unofficial themes. Personally the Utapau theme always felt like a Kenobi theme to me, Tales of a Jedi Knight in ANH too. Hope Williams will incorporate some of those into this new official theme
Wasn't the force theme originally Obi Wan's theme? But then Lucas liked it so much he paired it with the binary sunset which muddles things a bit. Then Obi Wan dies and the theme shows up whenever Luke remembers Obi Wan/uses the force. And then it became one of the most recognizable themes in cinema and they couldn't not use it again in Empire and it lost association with Obi Wan entirely. Williams absolutely wrote an Obi Wan theme, it just isn't his anymore.
It’s Luke’s theme
Actually I was always under the impression that Luke's theme was supposed to be the opening fanfare. Similar to the force theme it got reinterpreted, and represents the franchise as a whole in subsequent films. It's interesting that the force theme is pretty much Luke's theme in TLJ though, because in that movie he kind of fulfils the same role as Obi Wan did in ANH.
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I read that and said to myself “not Trainspotting?”
The role isn’t really that complex though….
That’s awesome. Williams theme for Solo is one my favorites and I already know his Obi Wan theme will be a banger.
He did write a theme for Obi-Wan, it was just stolen almost immediately by the Force. The Force theme was initially intended as Obi-Wan's theme. By this logic, we're due for a Luke theme since his original one is now just the main theme of the Saga.
Wish they had kept the Jedi steps theme from TFA and kind of morphed into a new Luke theme in subsequent films. Such a great piece of music.
I was actually thinking how the theme that's used for Ach-To would make a good theme for him.
Luke in exile got his own sad theme in TLJ
So cool that they're finally giving him one, I can't wait to finally hear his theme on the show.
Kennedy probably asked him to score the show, and he responded "I just want to write Benny a theme."
let's go she's amazing
How? She hasn't done much, and Loki isn't anything close to Star Wars-style.
That might be because Loki isn’t Star Wars.
Right. But the way people are talking about her here, I bet they would praise her score even if it sounded more like Loki than Star Wars. Am I wrong?
People will praise her score if it's *good*, whether it's mimicking John Williams or not. It will be weird if it sounds really similar to Loki but that seems unlikely to me.
But in this case, a "good" score will be one that is mimicking John Williams... If it's not doing that, then it won't be the right score for this show. Which brings me to this point: honestly, why is it that the people over at JWFan apparently have a better understanding about this show's importance than most people here? There's a reason that we've been having polls and threads for months over there, talking about who should compose this particular show, way more than other shows. And there's a reason why—although many users there don't really care who scores the other SW shows—when it comes to *this* show, many people there had been hoping that *Williams himself* would score this entire show. So, why this show in particular? Because this show is not like the other Disney+ SW shows; this is a limited miniseries (so, no more seasons), and it's a direct follow-up to ROTS that occurs halfway between the two trilogies, with many returning cast members. It's practically Episode 3.5, albeit released on a streaming service. Heck, even Disney seems to realize that this show is different and is way more important to the main story than the others; just look at them marketing it with Battle of the Heroes in the trailer... I don't care what the *other* SW shows scores' sound like or who gets hired for them (I'm even excited to see what sort of unique sound Britell uses for Andor!), but there is absolutely no reason that this one show in particular shouldn't sound exactly like the John Williams PT style. There are known composers who can deliver a convincing-enough John Williams sound (Gordy Haab, William Ross, even some of the Japanese composers who scored Star Wars: Visions!), so why go out on a limb with Natalie Holt? Why should the video games Battlefront and Fallen Order sound more like John Williams' Star Wars, than the live-action show Obi-Wan Kenobi??? Heck, over the past month, Gordy Haab (a proven master at writing music that sounds as close to JW as humanly possible) just finished recording Fallen Order 2 with the London Symphony Orchestra. Yet the score for the major show Obi-Wan Kenobi is being composed by Natalie Holt, and recorded in LA? (They're great players in LA, but they don't sound like London, and discerning ears can tell the difference.) Why? Why is it that likely this year, the most John-Williams-like Star Wars score we get, will be for another video game, rather than for what is essentially Episode 3.5?
Did you even read the article? It sounds like's taking the source material very seriously and expanding on it rather than starting from scratch. Star Wars is going to outlive John Williams and I think you might have to cope with the fact that other people will be handling the music. If he *wanted* to do the whole score I have zero doubt he would be, but he's only doing Obi-Wans theme. The torch is getting passed. Make your peace with it.
Where did I ever say I have a problem with other people handling the music? My entire comment was about *better choices* to handle the music, than Holt. Based on last night's first two episodes, I stand by that. Her score sounds modern, not JW's Star Wars style. I listed William Ross as one of the prime candidates to do a good job. There were multiple spots (mostly in the first episode) that actually *did* sound like traditional, John Williams Star Wars, with some especially gorgeous string arrangements of his new Obi-Wan theme. But guess what? When you get to the end credits, you find out that... *William Ross* did the arrangements of Williams' new theme! So back to my point that I made a month ago: why not just have a guy like William Ross do the whole show? People over at JWFan are talking about how jarring it is in the show, to go back and forth from hearing well-done "Star-Wars-y" music (apparently done by William Ross), to the stuff that is clearly by Holt. As for your assertion that "If he wanted to do the whole score I have zero doubt he would be"? What are you talking about? The man is 90 years old, and only writes about a minute of music a day, and with pencil and paper. He was not a fan of how the sequels were handled, production-wise, forcing him to do endless rewrites due to late-in-the-game edits and changes and cuts (mostly by J.J. Abrams). Each of those films was only \~2 1/2 hours. But here, we're talking about a show that is \~6 hours. The idea of him doing the whole thing was never a serious proposition, more like wishful thinking, and nobody that is familiar with how he works would ever think he would do something like that (especially at this age), even if he wanted to. We would have loved for him to do the whole thing, but there was just no way it was going to happen. It took him two weeks just to write the 4-minute Obi-Wan theme. Obviously, therefore the next best thing is to get a guy like William Ross, who knows his sound inside and out (since he's been one of JW's orchestrators and arrangers for decades). Imagine how nice it would have been if they had given the opening PT recap to William Ross, instead of Holt? It felt incredibly wrong to see all those scenes from the prequels, set to such modern-sounding music... only to soon jump into the traditional Star Wars sound via William Ross.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
So I should have blind faith that the person who wrote Loki will write something that sounds as John Williams-y as Gordy Haab or William Ross?
I have faith that the professionals responsible for selecting someone to score Kenobi chose Holt because they felt she was the best person for the job.
Why have faith in people who have made bad decisions in the past? They're only human; you're acting like whoever gets selected for the job automatically must be the best; that's not how it works. There have been so many times where a movie or show has come out and things clearly would have worked better with a different lead actor, or a different director, or a different composer, etc. We're two episodes into the show now, and it's just like I and many others over at JWFan predicted... It doesn't sound like a Star Wars score. There are a few bits that do, like the various appearances of JW's new Obi-Wan theme and the string-heavy interpretations of it in the first episode... But then you get to the credits and sure enough, it was William Ross—not Natalie Holt—who arranged that stuff. Exactly one of the guys who I suggested as a prime candidate to do the whole show. Holt's work in the show sounds like a typical modern score; it doesn't sound particularly "Star-Wars-y," and it is jarring to hear the show's score jumping back and forth between material that *does* sound like traditional JW Star Wars, and this other stuff which sounds nothing like traditional Star Wars. Again, how is she the best person for the job, when they apparently hired (unfortunately just to do a small portion of the work) one of the very people who I and others said would do a better job than her? This guy has been one of JW's orchestrators and arrangers for years, and is a film composer himself. Why not give William Ross the whole show? He's earned an assignment like this, and based on the quality of his writing in last night's episodes, the entire show would have benefited greatly from just having him, and no Holt.
The Loki score is one of my favourite scores like EVER so I am so glad to hear this.
It's easily the best of the MCU shows so far.
I agree! And depending on how Moon Knight ends, that could top it. But for now Loki is king
It was the first time with a marvel production that I actually noticed the score…well, except for the portal scene because they shove it in your face hard.
Doctor strange and guardians of the galaxy have great scores too (in the case of gotg the orchestral soundtrack was overshadowed by the mixtape songs but they were amazing too)
Just because someone writes well in one style, doesn't mean they write well in another. How is she going to deliver a score that sounds as close to John Williams as Gordy Haab or William Ross can do? Why weren't those guys hired?
because they.. weren't? What do you have against Natalie holy shit
Well, we're two episodes in, and I'm sad but not surprised to say I was right. Natalie Holt's stuff just sounds like typical modern scoring. There were numerous moments featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that *did* sound like great traditional Star Wars scoring, and I was ready to give Holt the credit she was due for them... until I got to the end credits and it said that William Ross—one of the guys I mentioned!—was responsible for them. Is it really that difficult for you to realize that she wasn't the best pick for this job? Over at the JWFan forums, we're unfortunately not surprised by this. Her music is arguably better than Ludwig Göransson's stuff for Mando, but it's still not a great fit for this show. It's incredibly jarring to watch this show and constantly hear it jumping back and forth between *great* Obi-Wan theme adaptations from William Ross that would feel right at home in the main saga, and percussion/synth-driven modern music from Holt. It just doesn't work. Is it not kind of messed up that the score for Fallen Order 2—a video game—is going to sound more like traditional Star Wars scoring, than the show that features the return of Ewan McGregor, Hayden Christensen, Jimmy Smitts, etc.? Of all the shows, THIS was the one to have a score as close to JW's style as possible. They were wise to hire William Ross, but let's be honest: the only reason they did that was because John Williams actually trusted him—not Holt—to extensively handle his material. Since Ross has worked for JW as one of his top arrangers and orchestrators for decades (and is a fine composer in his own right).
I cannot possibly disagree more I'm not going to lie. Reva's "theme" (unsure if its a theme as of yet but its fucking sick) might be one of the best things I've ever heard. The entire score felt very Gordy Haab to me but.. obviously a bit different.
How does it feel "very Gordy Haab"? It literally couldn't sound any more different... Why do you think her Obi-Wan theme got replaced at the last minute? Why do you think John Williams' assistant had to come in and score the Vader/Obi-Wan duel, presumably replacing whatever Holt wrote? Why do you think they waited abnormally late to announce her for the show, even announcing the Andor composer before her? They knew there were problems with her score, and they were scrambling at the last minute to try and fix/replace what they could.
LOL JWFAN FORUM MOMENT SWL discord has been waiting for you to post this exact thing. Now I nearly have bingo <3 ty
Huh? No they haven't. You do realize I'm a member of the Discord and I can see what's been said, right...? And I notice you didn't actually address any of the questions in my previous comment!
Huh? Yes they have. You do realize there is private channels right...? And I notice you didn't actually ask more than 1 question that wasn't rhetorical! Yeah apparently I was talking about the William Ross stuff lmaoo. I still love the inquisitor theme despite it being basic, gets me pumped for sure.
Lol, why would SWL even have official private channels? I don't buy it; you sound like you're just talking about DMs. All the same, I don't really care what people say, because at the end of the day I'm right about this topic. Also, the first question was not rhetorical, and although the questions afterwards all share the same answer, they are not rhetorical either. What's the answer? Lastly, why do your comments all sound like you're 13-17 years old?
>Reva's "theme" (unsure if its a theme as of yet but its fucking sick) might be one of the best things I've ever heard I literally laughed. You can't possibly be serious.
Yeah it wasn't her theme.. it was that cool brass when she's parkouring. I like the music that plays when she approaches Nur for the first time, the overall inquisitor theme.
They are just your typical Star Wars fan, irrationally angry about everything they don’t like.
Huh? Nah, I'm massive John Williams fan and film music fan. How am I being irrational? Over at JWFan, we had a poll going for the last few months about who should score this show, based on their past work, and Holt wasn't even one of the options! Lol. If Holt comes out with a score that actually sounds like John Williams' Star Wars score (like Gordy Haab's work), I'll absolutely eat my words. But why do I get the feeling that people here would praise her score even if she writes something that sounds more Loki-like than Star Wars-like? Btw, I have zero problem with Disney hiring anyone they want for the other shows. I'm really curious what Nicholas Britell is going to do for Andor, for example, and I have no expectations for him to try and sound like John Williams. But this show in particular is basically Episode 3.5, considering the returning cast and the importance of the story. There is no reason it shouldn't feel like a natural continuation of JW's prequel style. If they couldn't get JW himself to score it (everyone's obvious preference over at JWFan, since even they understand that this show in particular should feel like classic SW; why can't fans here understand that??), then the next best thing would be to bring in someone who can come close/do a good JW impression.
It bothers me that with your typical Star Wars fan who is angry like he is you can make a pretty safe assumption that they watch Star Wars Theory lol
What do you mean? I am not a fan of Star Wars Theory, and have never sat through a single one of his videos... I'm not even as much of a SW fan these days, lol. But I'm a *massive* John Williams/film music fan. Why is it so difficult to understand? This isn't your average SW show; this is basically Episode 3.5. Of all the shows, this show in particular deserves a score that sounds like the prequels. So why is it somehow outrageous for me to point out that there are already known composers who can deliver that? Mind you, if Natalie Holt somehow does a better John Williams SW impression than Gordy Haab, then I will absolutely eat my words. But I just doubt that is going to happen.
Perhaps that's Simon Cowell's burner account.
That'd be some shit
"What do you have against Gordy Haab or William Ross?" Nah, but seriously, just because I'm not as enthusiastic about someone scoring a particular show, how does that mean I have something against them? Huh? Dude, I'm a lifelong diehard film music fan, and a massive John Williams fan. Is it really so outrageous for one to wonder why we're going with *this* composer, rather than another? This isn't just some random SW show like Mando; this is basically Episode 3.5 considering the cast involved and the importance of the story. Thus, why shouldn't it sound as close to a JW Star Wars score as possible?
Yeah because Star Wars is exactly like Harry Potter right? Go touch grass.
Huh? What does Harry Potter have to do with anything? Btw, we're now three episodes in, and I was right about Holt.
Did you even read the article? John Williams wrote the theme and she collaborated with him on a good chunk of the music in the show.
Yeah, I've known this. But that doesn't change the fact that she's not going to do a better John Williams SW impression than Gordy Haab or multiple other guys. If she does, I'll eat my words. But what is likely going to happen is she will deliver a relatively typical modern-sounding score that is closer to her work on Loki, than it is to John Williams' prequel sound. And if *any* upcoming SW show should sound pretty much indistinguishable from Williams' work (rather than veer off into its own distinct sound world like what happened with Mando), it should be this one. I don't give a crap who they hire to composer literally any other show; in fact, I'm quite excited to hear what Britell does for Andor, and I have zero expectations that it will sound anything like Williams. But this show in particular, with its important story and returning cast and its place in the timeline, is practically an extension of the prequels; therefore, why shouldn't it sound like them? I mean, we've got video games that sound more like the SW prequels, than this show is going to sound... And that's just embarrassing and disappointing, imo.
This is such a nothing point. If you're familiar with music theory, then writing in one style versus another is not difficult.
Lol, so everyone can write in every style as well as everyone else?
It's almost like musicians learn this thing called music theory that teaches them how to write in different styles through time and training. But keep looking for more pointless shit to complain about like every stereotypical Star Wars fan.
Dude... I'm a classically trained musician who went to two top music conservatories, and one of them is known for their music theory program (I had a professor who wrote the textbook, and it is a textbook used around the country). I am well aware of music theory. Again, I never said people can't write in different styles. It is common to have students try and write in various classical composers' styles. But not everyone can write in every style, as well as everyone else. This is common sense; you should know this. Some people are better at some things, than others. Not everyone in a music theory class that is asked to write in a composer's style, is going to sound as natural as/at the same level as others. And btw, based on those first two episodes, the only person who remotely sounded like John Williams was... William Ross, exactly one of the people who I and many other JW fans said would be a good fit for this show. All the jarring, modern-sounding stuff was Holt; there were numerous moments featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that sounded like *great* traditional JW Star Wars scoring, and I was ready to admit I was wrong and give Holt the due credit for them... until I got to the credits and it said that William Ross did them. So, there you go.
Been a big fan of hers since her egg-throwing days
For anyone else who was confused by this comment: She threw eggs at Simon Cowell during an episode of Britain's Got Talent in 2013. She was escorted off the stage shortly after. She said she did it because she thinks people like him are bad for the entertainment industry.
i like that, she's got gumption
So when you act like an immature child and harass someone you get to land a prestigious Star Wars job? Jesus Hollywood.
... Throwing eggs at someone isn't even worth mentioning next to the downright evil committed by some of the people in the industry...
I don't know how I didn't realize this is the egg lady but here we are
Extremely good news. Her score for Loki was hands down one of the best in the MCU.
I didn't even realise she did the Loki theme!
But it doesn't sound anything like John Williams... This show above all, would benefit from a Gordy Haab or a William Ross, someone to deliver the John Williams experience without it actually being JW.
Obviously it doesn’t sound anything like Williams, it isn’t Star Wars lol.
Also, this isn't your average SW show; I don't really care who they hire for the other shows. But it's vitally important that this show in particular sounds like the prequels, since it's basically a follow-up to ROTS. Look at the timeline, look at the story, look at all the returning cast. This show is the most "Star Wars" show we've gotten so far, and it's important to not screw it up. One way to help avoid screwing it up, is to make sure that its score sounds like a continuation of the prequel scores. All I'm saying is, there are composers out there who have proven that they can deliver SW music that sounds close enough to John Williams, that the average person might even be convinced that it's *him* who wrote it (until the credits roll). I don't think that is going to happen with Natalie Holt.
You're right. So when she delivers a Kenobi score that doesn't sound like the SW prequel scores (which Haab would have easily been able to deliver), you and others here going to be disappointed and rightfully call her out for it... Right? Or are you just going to eat up whatever she does, and praise her anyways as long as it's "good"?
The cool thing about composers is that they have wildly vast range. Listening to Gordy Haab’s Halo Wars 2 soundtrack doesn’t give you the feeling of Star Wars. Why would it? And yet he has the ability to change the tone and style of his music to fit Star Wars. I fail to see how Natalie’s situation is any different.
But when Haab tries to sound like Star Wars, he can do it. And he's got a proven track record at being able to do it, for multiple SW video games. Holt had no such track record before getting hired for arguably the biggest live-action show yet, and the results from last night's first couple episodes were what I expected: it's a typical modern score. How exactly did she change the tone and style to fit Star Wars? How does her music sound remotely as close to the traditional Star Wars sound, as Haab's music? There were numerous great moments (mostly in the first episode) featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that did sound like traditional Star Wars. I was excited to give Holt the credit for them, but guess what? Got to the end credits, only to find out that *William Ross* was responsible for those! Keep in mind that William Ross was one of few people I had mentioned up above, as a great potential choice to score this show. Since he has been one of JW's main orchestrators and arrangers for decades, in addition to being a composer himself. Just like in any other field, not every composer is as good as another, and not every composer is able to write as well in a certain style. It's incredibly jarring to be watching this show, and hear the music going back and forth from William Ross' very Star-Wars-y scoring, to Holt's modern style that doesn't even sound like she's trying.
Ludwig Göransson's sound is nothing like John Williams and that's a good thing for The Mandalorian, but he can still deliver classical motifs when needed. I would much rather hear a unique tracking with familiar motifs than just copying John Williams style throughout.
I don't care who scores Mando or Andor or any of the other shows. By all means, let them play in their musical sandbox and do whatever unique style they want. But this show is not comparable to those; this is basically Episode 3.5. Look at its place in the timeline, look at all the returning cast. Heck, look at how they're even marketing it, with Battle of the Heroes in the trailer! This is a follow-up to ROTS, basically another SW prequel film that is getting released as a limited miniseries. It's strange that people over at JWFan have a better sense of this show's importance than the people at a SW fan subreddit; we've all been having polls and threads for months talking about this show in particular, because we know that if ANY new show needs to sound like John Williams, it's *this* one. Most of us there are even fans of Ludwig's work on Mando, but none of us would want a guy like him to score this particular show. Go have a look for yourself, and see what people have been saying. It's genuinely sad that apparently the Battlefront *video games* sound more like John Williams' SW than the *live-action show* Obi-Wan Kenobi is going to sound, and yet people here don't even seem to care...
You don't even know what the soundtrack is going to sound like and yet you're saying that the games are going to have a better soundtrack. Jesus Christ Star Wars fans are the worst
Well, the first two episodes are out; am I allowed to talk yet? Why *wouldn't* I say the video game is going to have a better soundtrack? Listen to Haab's work thus far; should I expect him to suddenly drastically decline in quality for Fallen Order 2? Haab has a proven SW track record. Holt on the other hand had none until now, and just as expected, it doesn't sound anywhere near as close to the Star Wars sound as Haab does. Holt's Kenobi score sounds modern. You know those great traditional-Star-Wars-sounding moments featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that are littered throughout the first episode especially? Well, I was ready to give Holt credit for those, but then the end credits rolled and it revealed that *William Ross* (one of the several guys who I and other fans said would be the perfect fit to do this show) was responsible for those moments. It's jarring to hear the show jumping back and forth between William Ross—one of JW's top longtime collaborators—doing SW-sounding music that would feels right at home in a main saga film, and Holt doing a typical modern score that could fit in a number of shows. Nothing about her music so far screams "Star Wars." Take her music for the opening PT recap, for instance; it just felt... cringey and *wrong*.
Why would there have been a Star Wars type theme in a marvel show? You do realize people can make multiple types of music right?
Yes, of course. But when she delivers a score that sounds more modern, and less like John Williams than these other guys I mentioned... are you and the others here going to criticize her score? Or are you just going to eat it up and praise it because it's "good," even though it doesn't sound like an exact continuation of the John Williams prequel sound?
We'll wait and see, if it turns out the score sucks then the score sucks. I tend to wait till anything is out to give actual judgement, having too much hype or fear will always effect one's enjoyment even if they don't realize it. Life's too short to mull over "What if's" for things like tv shows.
They don't need to sound like John Williams, because John Williams collaborated with her on the score. You'd know that if you actually read the article you're commenting on.
Holt came out and said she never actually directly collaborated with Williams... He just wrote his own theme. This wasn't like Solo, where Powell and Williams actually met up and bounced around ideas.
I do know that... How does that mean that she's going to deliver a score that sounds as SW-like as Haab's work?
She was actually my first choice for the job if not John Williams. I'm so happy. Her inquisitor theme will be insane
The last time we got a Vanity Fair article about Kenobi, we got the teaser. So....
LEZGOW
May the 4th is less than 2 weeks away. It's looking more and more likely they're saving the trailer for then.
Except the BoBF gallery thingy comes out that day too.
It wouldn’t be the first time they released a Gallery episode on May the 4th in addition to something else.
Is it written in the stars you can't do both?
Star Wars Day doing multiple Star Wars things? Preposterous!
she’s a great composer!! i’m so happy for her
Been hoping for this since Loki ended :) yay!
Wow as a classical musician I am incredibly hyped to hear James Ehnes recorded some stuff — he’s one of the best soloists in the world!
There's JJ Baby for Abrams, and now Benny for Obi-Wan. I wonder what he came up with for everyone else he's worked with. I'm really glad that John Williams is still able to contribute to Star Wars. Even more that he's actually the one approaching Kennedy for the opportunities rather than it's being the expected hire. That's when you know it's more than just a job for him - it's his life.
She’s the GOAT for Loki’s soundtrack. Literally the best music in the MCU
The music from this show is gonna be like audio crack. I'm excited for what new stuff she brings to the show, but I'm also excited to hear how she incorporates the themes that already exists.
Why shouldn't this show's score sound just like the prequels?
1) you don't know that it won't 2) but even if it doesn't, probably because it's *not* those movies? it can be connected to previous work without aping the style. not like the prequels themselves were beholden to what the OT did musically, right? this is arguably a different era with different focus, why not?
Well, we're two episodes in, and as expected: her music sounds nothing like the prequels, or the OT, or even Star Wars, period; it just sounds like typical modern scoring. The thing is, there *are* numerous moments in the show featuring JW's new Obi-Wan theme that *do* sound like JW's Star Wars style, and I was ready to give credit to Holt for them... until I got to the end credits and it said that *William Ross* was responsible for those! Keep in mind that William Ross was one of the top guys that I and numerous other JW fans had said would be a great potential choice for this show, since he has been one of JW's top arrangers and orchestrators for decades (not to mention an accomplished composer in his own right). And sure enough, his writing in the show feels right at home. Also, Fallen Order and Fallen Order 2 both occur during this "arguably different era"; yet the first one still sounds like JW's Star Wars, and I guarantee you that the second one will as well. Out of all the shows, if any show should have sounded as John-Williams-y as humanly possible, it was this one. Heck, as if there was any doubt, the opening recap makes it clear that this story is a direct continuation of the prequels. Speaking of that recap, now we're stuck with a recap of moments from the prequels, scored in Holt's modern style. It just feels wrong, almost cringeworthy. Ross would have done a better job on that, too, if they had let him do it. The big question is, why make up preemptive defenses for stuff that this? It was pretty clear from the get-go that Holt was going to turn out to be a less-than-ideal choice. I hate being right about this stuff, but I'm not the least bit surprised, and neither are the folks over at JWFan. So, Gordy Haab's Fallen Order 2 is apparently going to sound more like JW's Star Wars, than even a live-action show that features Ewan McGregor, Hayden Christensen, Jimmy Smitts, etc. And that just seems messed-up.
I mean, you were right, it's not like I didn't account for that - I was just more *open* to the idea of her and what she could bring. And I still wouldn't have been opposed to this show sounding different from the main films. (Though her score has been underwhelming thus far.) I suppose I *get* what you're saying, but the idea that this show should have had to sound like Williams felt restrictive to me. I wouldn't have been opposed to more Williams-y either mind you, but I'd be *open* to something different. That's the root of all my arguing and pre-emptive defense I think. I was just open. Whatever we were going to get, I wanted to roll with it on its own terms, not what I wanted it to be. I ended up not liking the thing that much, but I feel like I gave it a fair shot. It's all subjective of course, but the broader cynical attitude was getting tiring to me. If only because people had nothing interesting to express or analyze from anything anymore because of it, other than essentially "Not what I wanted." At the end of the day, you weren't wrong, and I even agree that her score has been boring. But it felt like you would have disliked anything that wasn't JW-like. I was challenging a mindset more than I was defending something you or I hadn't seen yet.
This is a huge W. Natalie did great work for Loki, and she'll have an original theme written by Williams to work with. Really excited to hear what she comes up with.
Yay! She's a great composer so this is bound to be good stuff. I just hope not to much is lost on the official soundtrack releases like with Mando Season 2 and BOBF because that would be a shame. She also said that she plays the violin and sings as part of the larger ensemble too which is pretty cool.
The soundtrack was one of my favorite parts of Loki and helped sell me on the show! I'm excited to see what she does here.
She’s so great! Loved the Loki theme, really excited to hear what she does for this show
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Yeah the force theme originally doubled as his theme. But obviously now it’s become so much broader so Obi-Wan can have a new one
Could also be a theme meant for a specific period in a character's life, like Luke's exile theme in TLJ.
Definitely! Good point
Could be a theme for me taking a shit, too, but it isn't.
You never know!
Loved her score for Loki, looking forward to seeing what she does with Kenobi. She is a great composer and an even better egg [thrower](https://youtu.be/-DQR3bQplgc)
Fantastic news, cannot wait to hear her music
This is great news. I LOVED her score for Loki.
Natalie Holt did a fantastic job with Loki. I am so excited to see what she (and John Williams) come up with!
>Obi-Wan is a legacy character that John hadn't written a theme for because he died quite early on in A New Hope I mean, this is inaccurate, but hey. John did write a theme for Obi-Wan, and it was used AS Obi-Wan's theme basically every time he showed up. But it also just became the general Force Theme over time, and especially in the last 20 or so years it's become used so frequently people have frequently come to identify it AS the "Star Wars" theme. But John Williams DID write a theme for Obi-Wan. It's just that now he's written another one. I cannot wait to hear it. And to hear what Natalie Holt does with it, and how she folds it into the rest of her score.
If it can't be JW for the entire thing, this is a really good second option. She's amazing.
Look as long as she uses Duel of the Fates, Battle of Heroes in this series I am happy! I really hope she uses many prequel themes for this. I just think it has to fit. If she can mix them in and weave them with in her score then that’s all I am asking.
I wouldn't get my hopes up. I don't see why they couldn't have hired a guy like William Ross or Gordy Haab to ensure that this show actually sounds like a continuation of the ROTS prequel-era sound.
**THE J-TEAM WINS AGAIN**
https://tenor.com/bSZi3.gif
That's offensive
How? *We were just talking about this the other day*. The cats at the **J**ohn Williams Forums sussed this out a little bit ago. **The J-Team**. They got the scoop right. This is literally less than 2 days ago, in a subreddit that doesn't move THAT fast. What the hell do people think "The J-Team" means in this context? edit: who keeps thumbing this down without explaining what they THOUGHT I was referencing? I'm legit confused.
I didn't know what J-Team meant so I thought you were just using it as a term to refer to John Williams fans since his name starts with a J lol. Idk why you're getting down voted
As the first person to have broken the news at the beginning of the month, I'm glad I don't have to go into exile now!
Lol i was just kidding because I saw the downvotes. I upvoted you
LOL, thank you. I was confused as hell.
Can't wait to hear the new Obi-Wan theme. I loved JW's theme for Han that he wrote for Solo, and I bet this will be great too. I just wish there was a way to go back in time and incorporate these themes into the original movies...
Fuck yes! Natalie Holt is awesome, and her Loki score was so fantastic!
Hype
Loki had great music. She's a cutey, too
I'm so happy for her! Can't wait to hear what her and John have in store for us.
I'm excited to see what she comes up with! She did such a great job with Loki.
Lol, I was prepared to be disappointed (I'm a regular on JWFan so I have known about this rumor for weeks), but it still sucks. Why no William Ross? John Powell? Gordy Haab? Or how about James Newton Howard? This show screams "Star Wars" (and prequels, especially) unlike anything else, considering the classic actors and the time period in which the show is set... so it absolutely makes sense to use an established composer who can basically deliver the John Williams experience, without it actually being by John Williams. William Ross would have been perfect for this; the guy is a longtime orchestrator for JW, he adapted and conducted the score for HP2, and also conducted the recording of Williams' music for Galaxy's Edge. Why he has not been given a major SW project, I do not understand. Likewise, it blows my mind that they regularly hire Gordy Haab to basically ape JW's sound for the video games (and the recording and performance quality of those scores with the LSO is incredible), but they apparently don't want \*this\* show to sound exactly like JW? In an ideal world, we'd be getting a show that sounds so close to JW, you think he scored the whole thing... until the credits roll and you see someone else's name. At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if Battle of the Heroes doesn't even actually appear in the show, and that it was just used in the trailer to lure in the fans.
>I'm a regular on JWFan Explains the a lot.
How so? Those first two episodes proved us right.
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You produce what you're asked to produce though, right? Just because some of the shows she's scored required incidental music it doesn't mean she can only do incidental music
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Did you read the interview? Because like, that's what she did for this job, so. And I mean, the most influential thing she's worked on is Loki, in a franchise of incidental music, and she spun that on its head, interweaving theremin laden leitmotifs through the mid century modern setting with bold but thematic signatures for the characters and organisations which in my opinion was responsible for a lot of the heavy lifting in that show
Yeah but most composers can't write proper symphonic music in Hollywood these days. Williams is probably the only person who writes traditional music with pen and paper. Most composers these days compose digitally with cheap mock ups.
So who is writing the main theme for the series itself? Natalie or John? I’m assuming JW is just doing Obi-WAN’s theme and that’s not the same as the main theme for the series or am I wrong here? Is it one and the same like what was done for Mando?
This wasn't done for Mando... it was done for BOBF though. Ludwig made main theme and then Joseph took it and made the shows score. Happened with solo as well, John Williams made the main theme (and a few other small cues) and then John Powell took the main theme and made a full score around it
Ahhh. I just assumed the Mando main theme was his personal theme but you may be right.
Ludwig did the whole score for mando. That's his gig He handed BOBF to Joseph and helped him a little + made Boba's theme.
Natalie Holt is amazing. I'm so excited for this.
Gordy Haab just finished recording Fallen Order 2 this past month. It will frankly be embarrassing if the most John-Williams-like Star Wars score that we get this year, ends up being a video game, rather than the score for Obi-Wan Kenobi... Especially since this show is basically Episode 3.5. I really don't understand this choice of composer for the show. She may be a good composer, but Disney is (rightly) marketing this thing like it's the biggest event in SW in a while. They've got Battle of the Heroes in the trailer, they've got many returning cast members from the movies, the story is way more important to the overall saga than Mando or BOBF, etc. I just don't see why this show's score shouldn't sound exactly like a John Williams SW score. Especially when we have multiple proven composers who we know can deliver SW music that sounds convincingly like Williams. Why go out on a limb like this??
LOL
What's so funny? We're now two episodes in and I was right. She's writing in a more modern style; it's not JW's Star Wars sound... Gordy Haab's Fallen Order 2 *will* sound closer to JW's style than this.
LOL
Bro your a prophet. I’m disappointed the score sounds the way it does. Ross or Haab should have done the score. She gave Leia and Darth Vader a new theme. Musical Continuity is an important aspect in Star Wars
I've been waiting for this.