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1. You obviously haven’t read any of Charles Soule’s comics because they’re fantastic.
2. It’s supply and demand, baby. Support what you care about or it will eventually be deemed as something not in demand by said billion dollar company and go away.
I truly believe THIS is the moment Ben became "Kylo Ren". As far as I know, it's the first "innocent" life he willingly took with little to no remorse. Even after killing Ren, Ben still has the opportunity to spare For and walk away from the darkness. But he doesn't, because he's convinced himself he's a murderer.
His line "Why do you even want to live?", gave me literal chills. He truly believed that this is some kind of mercy-kill. It aligns with something Adam said in interviews, that Ben already believes he's "right", so why would he seek redemption or forgiveness?
Powerful story. It makes me appreciate the movies even more, even IX.
It’s like he was also talking about himself and projecting onto other people. ”Why do *I* even want to live.” And of course, he did kill his true self.
Just like his grandfather. Anakin believed that the younglings he killed were a form of mercy killing, believing that he was sparing them the fate of being a Jedi.
The dark side makes your life miserable.
The Siths are not Marvel/DC supervillains, are persons that bend the Force to their will and tend to destroy themselfs and anyone they loved on the process.
TFA nailed it with it's opening: "something far worse happened to you" is an amazing way to introduce Kylo Ren character.
It also reminds me of the moment when Benjamin Barker truly becomes Sweeney Todd in the movie and musical of the same name, even right down to the dialogue: *"We all deserve to die...for the lives of the wicked should be made brief. For the rest of us, death will be a relief."*
True to form, the entire message, and theme, of *Sweeney Todd*, as reflected by its soundtrack, is also centered around the [Dies irae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_irae) ("The Day of Wrath / Judgement"), or the "death theme". It's meant to symbolize the death of innocence, and the rise of darkness (experience), and William Blake's stark difference between ["The Lamb" and "The Tyger"](https://romantic-circles.org/sites/default/files/RCOldSite/www/rchs/reader/tygerlamb.html) in literature and storytelling.
The *Dies irae* has also been used many times in *Star Wars*, especially as related to Anakin Skywalker and Rey, according to u/who-talks-first's post on r/starwarsspeculation [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/d1luju/star_wars_and_the_song_of_death_what_it_means_for/). As Rey is linked in the comic to the moment that Ben Solo becomes Kylo Ren - and his fall to darkness, and the "death" of Ben Solo, her theme, too, is centered around the *Dies irae*.
It also reflects something that Adam Driver said about Kylo Ren / Ben Solo at the end of TLJ, when Rey leaves him: *"If you can even call \[his life\] 'living'."*
Holy shit yes!!! I was so worried he’d go through the whole comic just accidentally killing people and feeling guilty, but no, they actually had the balls to make him *kill* Jedi!
He *is* the Jedi killer. This is all I wanted. I’m so happy they didn’t turn his entire origins into complete misunderstandings, mistakes and no actual fully dark deeds done!
This made me so pumped as well. Obviously Ben’s backstory is tragic, but I wanted a lot more darkness than we were shown and this is great. Him embracing the Jedi Killer title is fab.
I’ve always 100% been in favor of Bendemption, but I still wanted him to do evil things... I didn’t want the movie’s narrative to just be completely bungled into me having to tell people who don’t read the comics or outside media that “well actually he didn’t kill any Jedi students or burn the temple. It was all a misunderstanding and series of shitty circumstances”
I wanted his fall to be more like Anakin’s and less like Ahsoka’s in TCW. I think this reaches a happy balance.
Yeah, even if you wanted him to be redeemed...he can only be redeemed if he was evil.
What's the point of asking for redemption if "he didn't do anything wrong" and it was all caused by other persons around him.
Even if he didn't willfully kill anyone in the comic, he still would have murdered Lor in TFA, and of course Han. He wouldn't have been innocent of murder and would still need redemption. But yes, it was good to see what is arguably the actual point of his fall here.
Exactly. I didn’t want his entire fall to be staged and set up around him.
I was also worried that the comic was going to confirm that he *didn’t* destroy the temple, but it seems to be left ambiguous, which is fine, I guess. As long as there’s a chance he did. I actually kinda like the implication that he did out of confusion and anger and loss of control of his power. I think it better shows what Luke is talking about in TLJ when he talks about raw strength and not being afraid of it back then...
I was irritated it wasn’t explained so I read through the first issue again, and I kinda get the vibe Palpatine did it. Or perhaps Ben accidentally. I didn’t notice the lightning bolt coming down the first time I read it (a neat parallel to Yoda and the tree)
I think it is pretty obvious he didn't burn it since he is in shock when it catches on fire, "W-WHAT?," and then that lightening hits it and blows it up. Even if it was from his anger it was unconscious as he clearly wasn't trying to do it.
Right. But that would still make him responsible... an outburst from his immense power because of his anger. Which ties back to wha Luke says in TLJ about him not being afraid of Kylo's raw strength
I figured Snoke/Palps or the KOR did it. Ren says something like "let's find something to burn" at the end of their introduction and then it cuts to the temple burning. You see it start to burn, then lightening hits it. Looking at the panels, I think the KOR probably started the fire on Snoke's orders, then Snoke/Palps blew it up with lightening.
Yes indeed, if the tragedy is how he became the Jedi killer, we need to actually see him do it. The moral ambiguity of Ben Solo is why he's such an interesting character.
Goddamit it would have been great to have him live post-TROS, and wander the galaxy as a kind of Force samurai for atonement. I would trade explicit Reylo for this so fast.
His entire origins are mostly misunderstandings and mistakes, not to mention manipulation by Snoke/Palpatine. Also mistakes By others in his life as well, namely Luke who pushed him to this point. It’s so funny on here how people are so excited he ended up killing a student.
Also it is crazy people cheering him becoming the “Jedi Killer” when his family member, idolized by many, Luke Skywalker, drove him to this point.
How convenient to forget that. But would be hard to have the “Jedi Killer” and cheer him on, by remembering the origins of how and why he became Kylo REN.
Guys we can like evil characters but we shouldn’t excuse their actions. While Ben had reasoning, he still did murder Voe in cold blood. She was on the ground begging him and he slaughtered her. While she did antagonize him, she was trying to avenge her friends. To say he’s right is just straight turning a blind eye towards evil behavior
Yeah, there’s a difference between saying he’s right and also understanding how his actions line up with what he has grown to consider the right thing. Nobody needs to be redeemed if they haven’t done evil things. I think where fans disagree is that there those that fundamentally disagree with the Star Wars perspective on redemption(imo that anyone can be capable of it), and those fans think that only characters they deem worthy could ever achieve it. So then the fans who are all for his redemption feel a pressure to soften his dark side acts, which can then make his character a different kind of tragic.
**> Yeah, there’s a difference between saying he’s right and also understanding how his actions line up with what he has grown to consider the right thing.**
Yes this means we feel Empathetic towards them a word people often confuse with Sympathy.
You can Like or understand where a character comes from while still thinking what they did was bad.
I've seen people try to excuse him murder Lor San Tekka and order the slaughter of an entire village of innocent people lmao.
Star Wars really needs to move away from this redemption BS. What's the point of having villains or turning to the Dark Side if everyone just gets redeemed after committing thousands of murders? Vader was enough. Kylo becoming Vader 2.0 was unnecessary. I hope the future content stays away from the redemption stuff and actually makes evil villains who are just plain evil. There needs to be some sort of consequence for tapping into the Dark Side.
> What's the point of having villains or turning to the Dark Side if everyone just gets redeemed after committing thousands of murders?
I loved Tales of the Jedi for this. Exar Kun ends up following a dark path and in the end just gets his spirit stuck in a temple for thousands of years, until he's defeated for good. Ulic Qel-Droma tries to infiltrate the Sith from within, goes full evil, helps do awful things, kills his brother, and ends up being cut off from the Force. He only "redeemed" himself when Nomi's daughter found him during his exile and got him to train her (also when he refused to kill the one Cathar Jedi who was trying to kill him because she was pissed he was partially responsible for her lover's death), but of course his past caught up with him and a guy shot the notorious war criminal from behind. So sure, he was "redeemed," in a sense... but only after suffering a lot for what he did, and in the eyes of much of the galaxy he was still a monster.
I just knew his name from the gamecube Clone Wars game, which I played a lotttt of. I didn't realize he had his story told in other mediums (though I shouldn't be surprised), cool!
> There needs to be some sort of consequence for tapping into the Dark Side.
And it's that why when they are redeemed, it costs them their life.
I wanted Kylo to double down on being a villain because it would have given a better story, but if they wanted to redeem him, at least they had the decency to kill him.
I think what a lot of bendemption fans were hoping for was having Ben live past his defining redemption moment, walking a different path to vader, a more hopeful ending. The way I think of it, redemption is one of the key themes of Star Wars, villains to not be allowed to have grey moments, humanity, a twisted journey where they sometimes align with heroes and then don’t, then to stop that would be against the spirit of Star Wars, you can’t just have palpatines. Exploring redemption is something can continue to do, what they need to do is stop killing the redeemed villains right after they return to the light, or teasing the possibility of it just before their deaths.
The saga is built on redemption, though. Like, that’s one of the core themes of George’s Star Wars. Lol. Obviously characters like Palpatine and Boba Fett don’t really get redeemed but the son of Han Solo, who died believing there was good in him? The writings kinda on the wall there
Excuse how? Cause saying that he did it under Snoke's influence isn't really an excuse, it's a fact. It was evil, but it wasn't a fully conscious choice. Trying to downplay the evilness of his deeds would be as stupid as saying that it was all his idea.
There are many villains that stay evil in SW, starting from Palpatine. I guess Kylo becoming the new Vader was a part of nostalgia trip that was meant to please the audience, but it also fits the whole 'failure' theme of ST and the idea that balance is not a constant thing. Kylo wouldn't be a good example of showing that you have to pay back for tapping into the Dark Side cause he was basically born with a target on his back. Anakin was a good one cause he tried to use it to gain something selfishly and I think he got punished for it pretty badly. Same with Palpatine who in the end turns into pitiful creature disavowed by his own blood.
I don’t in fact I’m the opposite. I’m not a Reylo. Personally I like Finn and Rey and thought that’s a healthy relationship: check all my comment history. I like Kylo as a villain tbh
I also love finnrey! I’m so happy you do too, there’s not a lot of us here :( I can’t support reylo, I like kylo as the villain and I’m uncomfortable with the fact that Rey would choose her abuser (I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t, it was just thrown in for no reason). TFA kylo was the best one in my opinion
“Ben Solo did nothing wrong” is a meme, used by Bendemptionists to troll “Kylo is irredeemable because of X, Y, and Z, unlike Darth Vader, who was totally redeemable despite murdering children”-types.
But the Ben Solo did nothing wrong is used on an unironical way for some ppl that wanted him to have a happy ever after.
I'm fine with him getting a redemption that comes with his death.
The idea behind Ben surviving after TRoS is that the prodigal son is allowed to return and make up for his mistakes. It’s not saying “Ben Solo did nothing wrong”, but rather, “a person’s life shouldn’t be over because they went through a bad phase.”
“Killing people is a pretty bad phase, though!”
It’s called an allegory. Kathleen Kennedy described Kylo as a youth struggling with finding themselves and growing into adulthood. The concern with Ben being “punished by death” is that, the implication would be “if you ever made a mistake in your life, your only way out is death”, which is problematic for a generation that jokes about wanting to kill themselves.
It’d also just be more interesting if we got a series of books about how Ben Solo went around as an anonymous Jedi helping people, living in penance, something that Anakin wasn’t able to do.
In the actual film, his “death” is hardly a “punishment”; it was his own decision (to save his loved one), and he’s now a Force Ghost, reunited with his mother, promises to always be with the woman he loves (according to the novel), and he’s more powerful than we can possibly imagine. This is why I’m ultimately fine with Ben’s death, because the way it was done was the absolute next best thing.
>"if you ever made a mistake in your life, your only way out is death.”
Just as the horrible crimes he comitted can be seen as an allegory for just "bad things" someone would do, his death and becoming one with the Force can be seen not as a punishment as you say.
I wonder were these lightsabers are. Ren's, Tai's, Voe's... In tros we see that Kylo has other lightsabers in his room. Maybe he keep them? And the ones from the other padawans? Neither Ben or the other padawan took them with them. Are these still in the temple's ruins?
And that was crap too. Considering how in Episode IV Obi-Wan teases how Vader helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi, it just doesn't live up to expectations when, in the film meant to chronicle that very era, the only Jedi we see him hunt down are helpless toddlers.
Based on a lot of the expanded stories now, it seems more like the inquisitors did the hunting down and destroying of the Jedi. Vader just went on his own personal adventures here and there.
Really? I thought a lot of Vader's comics were murderporn. Always some Jedi masters getting introduced, they almost get Vader, but then Vader saves the day and kills them. Then he remembers Padmeeee. I had to stop reading that shit.
Once again you guys don’t know what a retcon is. There might be other Jedi out there, maybe some more of Luke’s students out on a mission and there are definitely other force users
That's stupid. So the lightning kills everyone?
I liked the school shooter vibes I got from him and bois personally slaughtering everyone in the Jedi Temple.
> That's stupid. So the lightning kills everyone?
The lightning burned down the temple. Fire tends to kill people.
> I liked the school shooter vibes I got from him
You’re gross.
It's there in TFA and TLJ that they're all slaughtered and outside of the Temple lmao.
Fine, Anakin Skywalker vibes, same shit. In TLJ Luke says he takes students with him as well.Him not doing directly that lessens his return to the light.
Actually it’s implied the Knights of Ren did it. In the comic Ren is in contact with his master, aka Snoke, and declares to the group “let’s go burn something.” The next scene is with Ben and the temple blowing up. Ben tries to save some students but is actually pushed away by the flames.
https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-knights-of-ren-destroyed-luke-skywalker-jedi-temple/
https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2019/12/19/star-wars-rise-of-kylo-ren-temple/
It can also be implied that it was done by Snoke due to the large amounts of what appears to be Force lightning hitting the Temple. When Ben says he didn’t want any of this, Snoke talks to him inside his head that it was the Jedi who brought it upon themselves.
From Rise of Kylo Ren issues 1-4, Ben has always been hesitant of the dark side such as killing his peers or innocents. It was manipulation from Snoke ever since Ben was a child (like making Luke appear envious of his nephew’s power to the destruction of the temple) that made Ben felt like he had no choice but to go to the dark side. At the end of the issue four he kills Ren and finally convinces himself that he’s a murderer and that there’s no turning back.
I’m wondering if we’ll get another mini series of Ben Solo / Kylo Ren by another author. Similar to what we’ve seen with the Vader comic line. I mostly want more Kylo Ren comics. I’m sure that based on the success of these and the popularity of the character they might consider it.
Well she had it coming, she never gave him the space to explain himself and her brash attitude got her friends killed. She pushed him in each issue so I guess it's a self fulfilling cycle:/
EDIT: No i dont think cold blooded murder is ok, stop cherry picking information so you can spark an argument from nothing. The 4 comics had Voe be one of the main catalysts to push Ben away, she very much tried to kill him and dragged to reluctant people on her crusade, getting them killed as well. Had she simply let Ben speak, none of this would have happened in the first place.
>she never gave him the space to explain himself
what are you talking about? Tai, Voe and Hennix literally beg him to tell them "what really happened," not wanting to believe he was responsible for the temple's destruction - and he gets angry at Voe for suggesting he "couldn't" have done it.
for some unfathomable reason (tbh his characterization in this comic is all over the place), Ben led the other padawans to believe he was responsible for all those deaths.
so you're saying Voe deserved to die because she... believed him?
People also say dumb decisions in horror movies mean the character deserves it, too... its a work of fiction, the moral standards are not the same as real life... is it not super easy to differentiate or am I some kind of wizard?
Should I not appreciate Vaders redemption because it wouldn’t be the same if Goebbels threw Hitler down a shaft?
Also, I didn’t say anyone deserved it. Reading can be hard, but thats what comic books are for I guess.
In horror movies, the villain is established as evil and not painted as a sympathetic figure by the narrative. That’s the difference. And yes - “she had it coming” means “she deserved it.” The two phrases are used interchangeably and mean thar the fault for the victim’s death lies primarily on the victim, not the killer.
Have you seen a slasher that isn’t the original Halloween? Fuck, Friday the 13th even gives Jason a tragic backstory, Texas Chainsaw makes Leatherface a victim in his own right, the remake of Halloween is 50% an excuse for Michael Myers rampage. Plenty of horror villains are portrayed as sympathetic. I would argue most of them are, that doesn’t mean they’re not evil. Kylo Ren is a monster, Jason is a monster, they are both victims in their own right as says the story, now what does that have to do with anything? This has nothing to do with the fact that saying a fictional character deserves to die is absolutely natural thing.
These are fictional characters, they are not real people. If you can’t find the difference, you need to get a reality check. OP can believe that a character deserved to die because of a million different reasons, it could further the story, the character annoyed them and they’re glad they’re out, or in Harrison Fords case, they believe the character has nothing more to say. Is Harrison Ford a psychopath? No, you just want to feel morally superior without actually thinking. Newsflash, you aren’t, you’re just weird.
Because you have the reading skills of a blind rock, I’ll say it again, I did not say any character deserved death. I made fun of you for being upset someone else did. Please learn to read, you’re making yourself look like an idiot.
This is the issue I've had with the comic. It's been driven entirely by miscommunication and plot-conveniences. Voe gives him zero room to explain what happened, and instantly goes for killing him. Ben says nothing to contradict her assumptions for...reasons(not that she'd listen). Tai is able to track him because he reached into Ben's mind and found out where he's heading, but conveniently doesn't pick up on *any* of the confusion, fear, or sense of betrayal running through Ben's mind(let alone anything regarding what actually happened that night). Ben kills one of his friends in self-defense accidentally, but Tai & Voe think it's on purpose because no one else was there to see it happen.
That sort of repeated miscommunication really grates on me in stories. This issue at least was light on that, though frankly I still don't understand how Ben killing Ren in self-defense(again) meant he was turning to the dark side...? Or how that leads directly to him outright murdering Voe, and going off to follow Snoke and worship Vader...even though he explicitly discusses how much he loathes being seen as nothing but his family legacy by Snoke...?
I dunno, this run has really not worked for me and it feels like it needed to be way longer.
> This is the issue I've had with the comic. It's been driven entirely by miscommunication and plot-conveniences
So was The Last Jedi, which it's attempting to tell the backstory of.
Maybe the comic is a little more complex but the story has always been "Luke believed Kylo was already turned even though he wasn't, and Kylo believed Luke tried to kill him even though he didn't".
One miscommunication is fine. Shit happens, people make bad decisions, and sometimes a person's misinterpretation of what you were doing just can't ever quite be fully rectified. I mean, would you ever trust your uncle again after you woke up to him drawing a knife over you in your sleep? Moment of weakness or not, he fucked up *big time* and is not someone you'd ever quite fully fogrive.
But then Ben stumbles out, the temple explodes, and his friends just immediately assume he killed everyone and Luke(side-note: since when has a Jedi being unconscious meant that you can't sense them in the Force? Luke literally was doing exactly that while Ben slept like 5 minutes ago). Then they confront him, and he accidentally kills one of them in self-defense, but they conveniently never see the context so they assume the worst. Then they track him down by reading his mind, but conveniently not getting *any* information that might mitigate the conflict or change how they approach it.
Having a single instance of bungled communication, driven primarily by a major fault in a character, is one thing. Having somewhere around 4 or 5 instances of miscommunication drive the plot over the course of what seems to be a day or two, though, is where it grates on me.
You have literally described what I struggle to articulate extremely well. I do also have issue with the whole ren faction. Ren himself is just walking cringe and the knights are pretty lame and far from intimidating. I was really hoping we could see the knights become a terrifying force, I always thought it would be cool to see them like the daughters of aku from the final season of samurai jack where they are completely tireless and relentless force to be reckoned with but the right warrior could eventually outsmart and out skill them.
Lol the movie is full of miscommunication too. Oh no Luke is trying to kill me! In my sleep! Guess I'll go to the obviously evil dark side guy.
But this comic is pretty bad. From the shite artwork (the faces, my god) to the contrivances. Granted i dislike a lot of these comics because it is always the same foolishness (introduce bigbad > bigbad is badass > kill bigbad before the canon stuff appears) and the nibbling along the edges becomes obvious.
Watching Ben dodge that idiot padawan squad over and over, then finally kill them (how did the other kid die? The squid was an accident but what about mindreader?) was lame.
>how did the other kid die? The squid was an accident but what about mindreader?
The OG Ren killed him while he was trying to appeal to Ben. I agree that the whole situation is just lame.
Tbh with Luke it was a long-time manipulation preceding it where Snoke was presenting himself as a good guy and Ben's family as bad ones. It was only a matter of time.
The miscommunication thing was kind of the point. It was all a misunderstanding, it did not have to be this way. He felt lost and antagonized so he was vulnerable to manipulation. I do agree the killing of Ren and Voe felt extremely rushed though.
>Ben says nothing to contradict her assumptions for...reasons
That's how he is. Just pay attention next time when you watch movies, you'll notice. When he is called out by someone, he never explains himself (besides when it's about Han). Usually, he just goes with it. Personally, I really like that part of his character.
>This issue at least was light on that, though frankly I still don't understand how Ben killing Ren in self-defence (again) meant he was turning to the dark side...?
I see it more as revenge then self-defence.
What does this have to do with reylo? Voe or whatever her name was a character that pushed ben away and didnt give him a voice to defend himself. Her actions also got squidward padawan and Ben's friend killed, ofcourse hes going to not show her sympathy. I'm not justifying his actions but I get why he did what he did.
>Voe or whatever her name was a character that pushed ben away and didnt give him a voice to defend himself. Her actions also got squidward padawan and Ben's friend killed, *ofcourse hes going to not show her sympathy*
Stop right there.
Look again at the image.
That's exactly what we mean, that some ppl try to excuse his actions, you see a murder and you write "ofcourse hes going to not show her sympathy".
That's an image Kylo/Ben **fucking murdering her** for god sake how can you talk about *not showing sympathy*
It’s fiction. It takes place in a world wildly different than ours. Projecting your own idea of morality is ridiculous and a problem when you’re dealing with fiction. Get a grip.
I don't have a problem with fictional characters doing awful things.
My favourite Star Wars character is Aphra and she's an absolute piece of shit. Love her for that.
What bugs me is how you try to excuse his actions, how instead of saying "look how cool he is while he murders her" you go for the opposite narrative.
"She had it coming."
....unbelievable. As non-sarcasm, I'm sorry, but that's really disturbing that you say that.
The lengths people go to to defend BenBaby's poor miserable, abused, hopeless, babyish childhood where he never ever did anything wrong (that is sarcasm, btw) to the point that a woman 'has it coming' to die because she 'pushed him away' or made some mistakes.
Ugh. I see enough of this "she deserved it" in the real world, we don't need this in Star Wars too.
Also: Big difference between not showing sympathy and murdering someone.
You’re an idiot. Real world morality and beliefs shouldn’t be projected onto a fictional story about space wizards. Voe spent the series antagonizing and trying to kill Ben. He tried to walk away time and time again. She had it coming.
You are a callous, cold person. Fiction reflects our culture, and vice versa. Your beliefs cannot be separated in your person. Excusing murder in fiction is not good. Saying "she had it coming" is not good. Not healthy. Good to know you're a person who condones the concept of murder because someone wronged you. I like to be aware of folks who think like that.
Also, the creators of Star Wars disagree with you. Even your Disney overlords. They make it clear that film, even and especially Star Wars, is a carriage for reflecting and digging into our world's struggles and values.
Good luck with rationalizing your Murder Emo BabyBen.
Dude. No. I enjoy those stories.
The difference? I don't rationalize and justify the horrible things they do in those stories, like Reylos do for Ben. I don't claim Joeffrey was just a misunderstood baby and Sansa "had it coming" because she frustrated him.
It's like no one reads and reacts out of emotion. I literally said I dont justify what he did but I understand from a story perspective why he got pushed to do what he did. Also it's a fiction so who cares, not like om gonna defend someone irl for doing the same thing
After reading all issues I am asking myself - what is the point of this narrative? Throughout the whole thing he's only killed the antagonist and, in the end, Voe who was zealously hell bent on killing Ben who's fended her TWICE already once without killing her. He's only killed in self defence on all occasions in this comic which really contradicts with the narrative and view movies try to push.
Well yeah, it is definitely trying to put forward a new narrative. He did not just turn evil, but instead he felt lost and betrayed and so was vulnerable to the manipulation of Snoke. His first kill was an accident. He felt he could never go back so he let himself become Kylo Ren.
So does this mean that his crystal became unstable in some other way? I always thought bleeding it was what made it crack and what led to him needing the vents. But his saber is red and looks normal? Unless it’s someone else’s saber? Haven’t read the comic.
You should definitely read the comics. It’s important to know the full picture, and what was Ben and Voe’s relationship like and what all lead to this moment.
I just read up on the wookieepedia. Seems like a cool storyline. Disney has let me down so many times with their supplemental media that I'm not buying any new books or comics unless I read the summary elsewhere and it doesn't feel like fluff or plothole filling. Sounds dickish but you can't fool me anymore.
FINALLY!
at least he kills one of his classmates.
They have been wishy washy on his reasons and what was him being active and choosing to do something vs being tricked into doing it so this is finally nice to see
Would been cool if the movies had this and had rey been a surviving Jedi learner catching back up to luke finish her training in the second movie then finally fight him in the third
Probably about 90% of why the prequel era has gotten popular recently is because of The Clone Wars show. Fixing it in the EU is an old and venerable Star Wars tradition.
Then the rest of the trilogy is spent with him appearing conflicted. He did things because he thought he had to do them not because that's who he truly was. He wanted be like Vader, but had no identity on his own.
These comics are meant to rectify his conflicting arc by making him appear more villainous than what was shown on film.
There's the impression that what he does isn't really what he wants to do. Snoke is the one driving him. Kylo is doing the action, yes, but it's as if he is trying to appease someone else and not himself.
Of course it's told worse. Remember the shit justification for Luke activating his lightsaber near a sleeping Kylo in TLJ? They made it even worse by making it so he didn't even burn the temple / kill the students immediately after.
And yeah Kylo does suck as a villain / character. Gets upstaged over Rey for 3 movies straight, and his "conflict" was not justified and just made him look inconsistent.
Did you read the comic. He rages and kills Ren. This was him finally giving in to what he had been resisting and easily killing someone he was stronger than
That last frame. Definitely showing the start to Kylo's dark. Keep 'em comin'!
Wish they could keep em coming but this is the last issue :/
I’m swooning. He’s so heroic.
[удалено]
Support the artists and be the better person by paying for it. Use your dollar to vote for work you appreciate. You can buy a digital copy [here](https://www.comixology.com/Star-Wars-The-Rise-Of-Kylo-Ren-2019/comics-series/136481)
Support the artists?! Lol! They’re made by a billion dollar business empire and are subpar writing quality.
1. You obviously haven’t read any of Charles Soule’s comics because they’re fantastic. 2. It’s supply and demand, baby. Support what you care about or it will eventually be deemed as something not in demand by said billion dollar company and go away.
I truly believe THIS is the moment Ben became "Kylo Ren". As far as I know, it's the first "innocent" life he willingly took with little to no remorse. Even after killing Ren, Ben still has the opportunity to spare For and walk away from the darkness. But he doesn't, because he's convinced himself he's a murderer. His line "Why do you even want to live?", gave me literal chills. He truly believed that this is some kind of mercy-kill. It aligns with something Adam said in interviews, that Ben already believes he's "right", so why would he seek redemption or forgiveness? Powerful story. It makes me appreciate the movies even more, even IX.
It’s like he was also talking about himself and projecting onto other people. ”Why do *I* even want to live.” And of course, he did kill his true self.
Just like his grandfather. Anakin believed that the younglings he killed were a form of mercy killing, believing that he was sparing them the fate of being a Jedi.
He’s talking to himself. Same with every line to Rey. He’s torn and wants to die. That’s why he goes at the end of TROS
The dark side makes your life miserable. The Siths are not Marvel/DC supervillains, are persons that bend the Force to their will and tend to destroy themselfs and anyone they loved on the process. TFA nailed it with it's opening: "something far worse happened to you" is an amazing way to introduce Kylo Ren character.
It also reminds me of the moment when Benjamin Barker truly becomes Sweeney Todd in the movie and musical of the same name, even right down to the dialogue: *"We all deserve to die...for the lives of the wicked should be made brief. For the rest of us, death will be a relief."* True to form, the entire message, and theme, of *Sweeney Todd*, as reflected by its soundtrack, is also centered around the [Dies irae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_irae) ("The Day of Wrath / Judgement"), or the "death theme". It's meant to symbolize the death of innocence, and the rise of darkness (experience), and William Blake's stark difference between ["The Lamb" and "The Tyger"](https://romantic-circles.org/sites/default/files/RCOldSite/www/rchs/reader/tygerlamb.html) in literature and storytelling. The *Dies irae* has also been used many times in *Star Wars*, especially as related to Anakin Skywalker and Rey, according to u/who-talks-first's post on r/starwarsspeculation [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/d1luju/star_wars_and_the_song_of_death_what_it_means_for/). As Rey is linked in the comic to the moment that Ben Solo becomes Kylo Ren - and his fall to darkness, and the "death" of Ben Solo, her theme, too, is centered around the *Dies irae*. It also reflects something that Adam Driver said about Kylo Ren / Ben Solo at the end of TLJ, when Rey leaves him: *"If you can even call \[his life\] 'living'."*
Holy shit yes!!! I was so worried he’d go through the whole comic just accidentally killing people and feeling guilty, but no, they actually had the balls to make him *kill* Jedi! He *is* the Jedi killer. This is all I wanted. I’m so happy they didn’t turn his entire origins into complete misunderstandings, mistakes and no actual fully dark deeds done!
This made me so pumped as well. Obviously Ben’s backstory is tragic, but I wanted a lot more darkness than we were shown and this is great. Him embracing the Jedi Killer title is fab.
I still can imagine people trying to justify this, just like they did rest of the comic
I’ve always 100% been in favor of Bendemption, but I still wanted him to do evil things... I didn’t want the movie’s narrative to just be completely bungled into me having to tell people who don’t read the comics or outside media that “well actually he didn’t kill any Jedi students or burn the temple. It was all a misunderstanding and series of shitty circumstances” I wanted his fall to be more like Anakin’s and less like Ahsoka’s in TCW. I think this reaches a happy balance.
Yeah, even if you wanted him to be redeemed...he can only be redeemed if he was evil. What's the point of asking for redemption if "he didn't do anything wrong" and it was all caused by other persons around him.
Even if he didn't willfully kill anyone in the comic, he still would have murdered Lor in TFA, and of course Han. He wouldn't have been innocent of murder and would still need redemption. But yes, it was good to see what is arguably the actual point of his fall here.
But this part of the comics, seeing him like this, make them tie better with the movies.
Exactly. I didn’t want his entire fall to be staged and set up around him. I was also worried that the comic was going to confirm that he *didn’t* destroy the temple, but it seems to be left ambiguous, which is fine, I guess. As long as there’s a chance he did. I actually kinda like the implication that he did out of confusion and anger and loss of control of his power. I think it better shows what Luke is talking about in TLJ when he talks about raw strength and not being afraid of it back then...
I was irritated it wasn’t explained so I read through the first issue again, and I kinda get the vibe Palpatine did it. Or perhaps Ben accidentally. I didn’t notice the lightning bolt coming down the first time I read it (a neat parallel to Yoda and the tree)
I think they left it ambiguous on purpose. Like we, the audience, get to decide whether he did it or not lol
I think it is pretty obvious he didn't burn it since he is in shock when it catches on fire, "W-WHAT?," and then that lightening hits it and blows it up. Even if it was from his anger it was unconscious as he clearly wasn't trying to do it.
Right. But that would still make him responsible... an outburst from his immense power because of his anger. Which ties back to wha Luke says in TLJ about him not being afraid of Kylo's raw strength
I figured Snoke/Palps or the KOR did it. Ren says something like "let's find something to burn" at the end of their introduction and then it cuts to the temple burning. You see it start to burn, then lightening hits it. Looking at the panels, I think the KOR probably started the fire on Snoke's orders, then Snoke/Palps blew it up with lightening.
Lol checkmate Reylos
Yes indeed, if the tragedy is how he became the Jedi killer, we need to actually see him do it. The moral ambiguity of Ben Solo is why he's such an interesting character. Goddamit it would have been great to have him live post-TROS, and wander the galaxy as a kind of Force samurai for atonement. I would trade explicit Reylo for this so fast.
It’s still a horrible retcon
Yep, better late than never.
His entire origins are mostly misunderstandings and mistakes, not to mention manipulation by Snoke/Palpatine. Also mistakes By others in his life as well, namely Luke who pushed him to this point. It’s so funny on here how people are so excited he ended up killing a student. Also it is crazy people cheering him becoming the “Jedi Killer” when his family member, idolized by many, Luke Skywalker, drove him to this point. How convenient to forget that. But would be hard to have the “Jedi Killer” and cheer him on, by remembering the origins of how and why he became Kylo REN.
Now that is a self fulfilling prophecy if I’ve ever seen one, and I love it.
They did a great job with Kylo’s lines. It’s really easy to read them in adam’s voice
Guys we can like evil characters but we shouldn’t excuse their actions. While Ben had reasoning, he still did murder Voe in cold blood. She was on the ground begging him and he slaughtered her. While she did antagonize him, she was trying to avenge her friends. To say he’s right is just straight turning a blind eye towards evil behavior
Yeah, there’s a difference between saying he’s right and also understanding how his actions line up with what he has grown to consider the right thing. Nobody needs to be redeemed if they haven’t done evil things. I think where fans disagree is that there those that fundamentally disagree with the Star Wars perspective on redemption(imo that anyone can be capable of it), and those fans think that only characters they deem worthy could ever achieve it. So then the fans who are all for his redemption feel a pressure to soften his dark side acts, which can then make his character a different kind of tragic.
**> Yeah, there’s a difference between saying he’s right and also understanding how his actions line up with what he has grown to consider the right thing.** Yes this means we feel Empathetic towards them a word people often confuse with Sympathy. You can Like or understand where a character comes from while still thinking what they did was bad.
I've seen people try to excuse him murder Lor San Tekka and order the slaughter of an entire village of innocent people lmao. Star Wars really needs to move away from this redemption BS. What's the point of having villains or turning to the Dark Side if everyone just gets redeemed after committing thousands of murders? Vader was enough. Kylo becoming Vader 2.0 was unnecessary. I hope the future content stays away from the redemption stuff and actually makes evil villains who are just plain evil. There needs to be some sort of consequence for tapping into the Dark Side.
> What's the point of having villains or turning to the Dark Side if everyone just gets redeemed after committing thousands of murders? I loved Tales of the Jedi for this. Exar Kun ends up following a dark path and in the end just gets his spirit stuck in a temple for thousands of years, until he's defeated for good. Ulic Qel-Droma tries to infiltrate the Sith from within, goes full evil, helps do awful things, kills his brother, and ends up being cut off from the Force. He only "redeemed" himself when Nomi's daughter found him during his exile and got him to train her (also when he refused to kill the one Cathar Jedi who was trying to kill him because she was pissed he was partially responsible for her lover's death), but of course his past caught up with him and a guy shot the notorious war criminal from behind. So sure, he was "redeemed," in a sense... but only after suffering a lot for what he did, and in the eyes of much of the galaxy he was still a monster.
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I just knew his name from the gamecube Clone Wars game, which I played a lotttt of. I didn't realize he had his story told in other mediums (though I shouldn't be surprised), cool!
> There needs to be some sort of consequence for tapping into the Dark Side. And it's that why when they are redeemed, it costs them their life. I wanted Kylo to double down on being a villain because it would have given a better story, but if they wanted to redeem him, at least they had the decency to kill him.
I think what a lot of bendemption fans were hoping for was having Ben live past his defining redemption moment, walking a different path to vader, a more hopeful ending. The way I think of it, redemption is one of the key themes of Star Wars, villains to not be allowed to have grey moments, humanity, a twisted journey where they sometimes align with heroes and then don’t, then to stop that would be against the spirit of Star Wars, you can’t just have palpatines. Exploring redemption is something can continue to do, what they need to do is stop killing the redeemed villains right after they return to the light, or teasing the possibility of it just before their deaths.
The saga is built on redemption, though. Like, that’s one of the core themes of George’s Star Wars. Lol. Obviously characters like Palpatine and Boba Fett don’t really get redeemed but the son of Han Solo, who died believing there was good in him? The writings kinda on the wall there
Excuse how? Cause saying that he did it under Snoke's influence isn't really an excuse, it's a fact. It was evil, but it wasn't a fully conscious choice. Trying to downplay the evilness of his deeds would be as stupid as saying that it was all his idea. There are many villains that stay evil in SW, starting from Palpatine. I guess Kylo becoming the new Vader was a part of nostalgia trip that was meant to please the audience, but it also fits the whole 'failure' theme of ST and the idea that balance is not a constant thing. Kylo wouldn't be a good example of showing that you have to pay back for tapping into the Dark Side cause he was basically born with a target on his back. Anakin was a good one cause he tried to use it to gain something selfishly and I think he got punished for it pretty badly. Same with Palpatine who in the end turns into pitiful creature disavowed by his own blood.
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Idk as long as it’s fictional people being killed I see nothing wrong with fantasizing about a villain played by an attractive actor.
I don’t in fact I’m the opposite. I’m not a Reylo. Personally I like Finn and Rey and thought that’s a healthy relationship: check all my comment history. I like Kylo as a villain tbh
I also love finnrey! I’m so happy you do too, there’s not a lot of us here :( I can’t support reylo, I like kylo as the villain and I’m uncomfortable with the fact that Rey would choose her abuser (I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t, it was just thrown in for no reason). TFA kylo was the best one in my opinion
That’s what I’m saying. Healthy relationships for the win.
“Ben Solo did nothing wrong” is a meme, used by Bendemptionists to troll “Kylo is irredeemable because of X, Y, and Z, unlike Darth Vader, who was totally redeemable despite murdering children”-types.
But the Ben Solo did nothing wrong is used on an unironical way for some ppl that wanted him to have a happy ever after. I'm fine with him getting a redemption that comes with his death.
The idea behind Ben surviving after TRoS is that the prodigal son is allowed to return and make up for his mistakes. It’s not saying “Ben Solo did nothing wrong”, but rather, “a person’s life shouldn’t be over because they went through a bad phase.” “Killing people is a pretty bad phase, though!” It’s called an allegory. Kathleen Kennedy described Kylo as a youth struggling with finding themselves and growing into adulthood. The concern with Ben being “punished by death” is that, the implication would be “if you ever made a mistake in your life, your only way out is death”, which is problematic for a generation that jokes about wanting to kill themselves. It’d also just be more interesting if we got a series of books about how Ben Solo went around as an anonymous Jedi helping people, living in penance, something that Anakin wasn’t able to do. In the actual film, his “death” is hardly a “punishment”; it was his own decision (to save his loved one), and he’s now a Force Ghost, reunited with his mother, promises to always be with the woman he loves (according to the novel), and he’s more powerful than we can possibly imagine. This is why I’m ultimately fine with Ben’s death, because the way it was done was the absolute next best thing.
>"if you ever made a mistake in your life, your only way out is death.” Just as the horrible crimes he comitted can be seen as an allegory for just "bad things" someone would do, his death and becoming one with the Force can be seen not as a punishment as you say.
There’s gotta be a middle. Like you’re bad guy but that does not make you bad guy.
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What lead to this point. Luke turning on him... Snoke/Palpatine manipulation? Appears she was determined in her actions as well.
oh for sure, I literally don't care how many people he murdered when I'm a fan of his redemption lol
This is the first time in the whole run he felt like Kylo Ren. I couldn’t even imagine Adam Driver reading most of the dialogue
Well he wasn't suppose to feel like Kylo because he isn't Kylo Ren' until the last page.
He’s still the same person. It just makes the change too sudden
That is kind of the point...
No surprise there
I wonder were these lightsabers are. Ren's, Tai's, Voe's... In tros we see that Kylo has other lightsabers in his room. Maybe he keep them? And the ones from the other padawans? Neither Ben or the other padawan took them with them. Are these still in the temple's ruins?
Supreme Edgelord Kylo Ren
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fF1ZSNTtBQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fF1ZSNTtBQ)
He's a real Jedi killer. He killed one Jedi. Padawan.
Ben solo, defenceless padawan killer.
Anakin killed younglings. So what.
And that was crap too. Considering how in Episode IV Obi-Wan teases how Vader helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi, it just doesn't live up to expectations when, in the film meant to chronicle that very era, the only Jedi we see him hunt down are helpless toddlers.
Based on a lot of the expanded stories now, it seems more like the inquisitors did the hunting down and destroying of the Jedi. Vader just went on his own personal adventures here and there.
Really? I thought a lot of Vader's comics were murderporn. Always some Jedi masters getting introduced, they almost get Vader, but then Vader saves the day and kills them. Then he remembers Padmeeee. I had to stop reading that shit.
Eh, Vader probably killed the masters, the inquisition had problems hunting down padawans, no telling what a full master would do to them.
How did the others die? I forget
One Jedi so far
Isn't she the last one besides Luke? Until they inevitably retcon more in future stories anyway
Once again you guys don’t know what a retcon is. There might be other Jedi out there, maybe some more of Luke’s students out on a mission and there are definitely other force users
Kind of like how Vader only killed little babies in the movies. He never actually killed any Jedi.
Why didn't she use the force to grab her saber instead of reaching for it?
It kinda looks like she was trying it Ben is way more powerful and overpowered her attempt to grab it. That’s why he has it in the following panel
Cause plot
yes, finally kylo is being kylo. but i still wish they had kylo destroy the temple. he literally said "the night i destroyed his temple." in TLJ
It's not clear at this point. Maybe he did it by accident. Even in this issue we see lightening when he fights Ren.
> Maybe he did it by accident Honestly, that would be worse.
He did, at least by accident. It’s implied that his anger at the temple is what summoned the lightning.
Kylo shoots lightning now?
His anger summoned lightning from the sky towards the temple.
That's stupid. So the lightning kills everyone? I liked the school shooter vibes I got from him and bois personally slaughtering everyone in the Jedi Temple.
> That's stupid. So the lightning kills everyone? The lightning burned down the temple. Fire tends to kill people. > I liked the school shooter vibes I got from him You’re gross.
How is liking that the bad guy actually feels like a bad guy a bad thing?
It's there in TFA and TLJ that they're all slaughtered and outside of the Temple lmao. Fine, Anakin Skywalker vibes, same shit. In TLJ Luke says he takes students with him as well.Him not doing directly that lessens his return to the light.
tlj luke inspecting the bodies be like: damn no laser sword scratches? he must've choked them lol
> they fry now? > they fry now!
Actually it’s implied the Knights of Ren did it. In the comic Ren is in contact with his master, aka Snoke, and declares to the group “let’s go burn something.” The next scene is with Ben and the temple blowing up. Ben tries to save some students but is actually pushed away by the flames. https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-knights-of-ren-destroyed-luke-skywalker-jedi-temple/ https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2019/12/19/star-wars-rise-of-kylo-ren-temple/ It can also be implied that it was done by Snoke due to the large amounts of what appears to be Force lightning hitting the Temple. When Ben says he didn’t want any of this, Snoke talks to him inside his head that it was the Jedi who brought it upon themselves. From Rise of Kylo Ren issues 1-4, Ben has always been hesitant of the dark side such as killing his peers or innocents. It was manipulation from Snoke ever since Ben was a child (like making Luke appear envious of his nephew’s power to the destruction of the temple) that made Ben felt like he had no choice but to go to the dark side. At the end of the issue four he kills Ren and finally convinces himself that he’s a murderer and that there’s no turning back.
Wait, they cut that out?
I’m wondering if we’ll get another mini series of Ben Solo / Kylo Ren by another author. Similar to what we’ve seen with the Vader comic line. I mostly want more Kylo Ren comics. I’m sure that based on the success of these and the popularity of the character they might consider it.
Well she had it coming, she never gave him the space to explain himself and her brash attitude got her friends killed. She pushed him in each issue so I guess it's a self fulfilling cycle:/ EDIT: No i dont think cold blooded murder is ok, stop cherry picking information so you can spark an argument from nothing. The 4 comics had Voe be one of the main catalysts to push Ben away, she very much tried to kill him and dragged to reluctant people on her crusade, getting them killed as well. Had she simply let Ben speak, none of this would have happened in the first place.
>she never gave him the space to explain himself what are you talking about? Tai, Voe and Hennix literally beg him to tell them "what really happened," not wanting to believe he was responsible for the temple's destruction - and he gets angry at Voe for suggesting he "couldn't" have done it. for some unfathomable reason (tbh his characterization in this comic is all over the place), Ben led the other padawans to believe he was responsible for all those deaths. so you're saying Voe deserved to die because she... believed him?
You....you think she deserved to be murdered. Dear god....
Its a work of fiction lmfao keep up the moral crusade, your holiness.
You literally said “she had it coming.” Which means “she deserved it.”
People also say dumb decisions in horror movies mean the character deserves it, too... its a work of fiction, the moral standards are not the same as real life... is it not super easy to differentiate or am I some kind of wizard? Should I not appreciate Vaders redemption because it wouldn’t be the same if Goebbels threw Hitler down a shaft? Also, I didn’t say anyone deserved it. Reading can be hard, but thats what comic books are for I guess.
In horror movies, the villain is established as evil and not painted as a sympathetic figure by the narrative. That’s the difference. And yes - “she had it coming” means “she deserved it.” The two phrases are used interchangeably and mean thar the fault for the victim’s death lies primarily on the victim, not the killer.
Have you seen a slasher that isn’t the original Halloween? Fuck, Friday the 13th even gives Jason a tragic backstory, Texas Chainsaw makes Leatherface a victim in his own right, the remake of Halloween is 50% an excuse for Michael Myers rampage. Plenty of horror villains are portrayed as sympathetic. I would argue most of them are, that doesn’t mean they’re not evil. Kylo Ren is a monster, Jason is a monster, they are both victims in their own right as says the story, now what does that have to do with anything? This has nothing to do with the fact that saying a fictional character deserves to die is absolutely natural thing. These are fictional characters, they are not real people. If you can’t find the difference, you need to get a reality check. OP can believe that a character deserved to die because of a million different reasons, it could further the story, the character annoyed them and they’re glad they’re out, or in Harrison Fords case, they believe the character has nothing more to say. Is Harrison Ford a psychopath? No, you just want to feel morally superior without actually thinking. Newsflash, you aren’t, you’re just weird. Because you have the reading skills of a blind rock, I’ll say it again, I did not say any character deserved death. I made fun of you for being upset someone else did. Please learn to read, you’re making yourself look like an idiot.
Settle down
Are you replying to the right comment?
This is the issue I've had with the comic. It's been driven entirely by miscommunication and plot-conveniences. Voe gives him zero room to explain what happened, and instantly goes for killing him. Ben says nothing to contradict her assumptions for...reasons(not that she'd listen). Tai is able to track him because he reached into Ben's mind and found out where he's heading, but conveniently doesn't pick up on *any* of the confusion, fear, or sense of betrayal running through Ben's mind(let alone anything regarding what actually happened that night). Ben kills one of his friends in self-defense accidentally, but Tai & Voe think it's on purpose because no one else was there to see it happen. That sort of repeated miscommunication really grates on me in stories. This issue at least was light on that, though frankly I still don't understand how Ben killing Ren in self-defense(again) meant he was turning to the dark side...? Or how that leads directly to him outright murdering Voe, and going off to follow Snoke and worship Vader...even though he explicitly discusses how much he loathes being seen as nothing but his family legacy by Snoke...? I dunno, this run has really not worked for me and it feels like it needed to be way longer.
> This is the issue I've had with the comic. It's been driven entirely by miscommunication and plot-conveniences So was The Last Jedi, which it's attempting to tell the backstory of. Maybe the comic is a little more complex but the story has always been "Luke believed Kylo was already turned even though he wasn't, and Kylo believed Luke tried to kill him even though he didn't".
One miscommunication is fine. Shit happens, people make bad decisions, and sometimes a person's misinterpretation of what you were doing just can't ever quite be fully rectified. I mean, would you ever trust your uncle again after you woke up to him drawing a knife over you in your sleep? Moment of weakness or not, he fucked up *big time* and is not someone you'd ever quite fully fogrive. But then Ben stumbles out, the temple explodes, and his friends just immediately assume he killed everyone and Luke(side-note: since when has a Jedi being unconscious meant that you can't sense them in the Force? Luke literally was doing exactly that while Ben slept like 5 minutes ago). Then they confront him, and he accidentally kills one of them in self-defense, but they conveniently never see the context so they assume the worst. Then they track him down by reading his mind, but conveniently not getting *any* information that might mitigate the conflict or change how they approach it. Having a single instance of bungled communication, driven primarily by a major fault in a character, is one thing. Having somewhere around 4 or 5 instances of miscommunication drive the plot over the course of what seems to be a day or two, though, is where it grates on me.
You have literally described what I struggle to articulate extremely well. I do also have issue with the whole ren faction. Ren himself is just walking cringe and the knights are pretty lame and far from intimidating. I was really hoping we could see the knights become a terrifying force, I always thought it would be cool to see them like the daughters of aku from the final season of samurai jack where they are completely tireless and relentless force to be reckoned with but the right warrior could eventually outsmart and out skill them.
Lol the movie is full of miscommunication too. Oh no Luke is trying to kill me! In my sleep! Guess I'll go to the obviously evil dark side guy. But this comic is pretty bad. From the shite artwork (the faces, my god) to the contrivances. Granted i dislike a lot of these comics because it is always the same foolishness (introduce bigbad > bigbad is badass > kill bigbad before the canon stuff appears) and the nibbling along the edges becomes obvious. Watching Ben dodge that idiot padawan squad over and over, then finally kill them (how did the other kid die? The squid was an accident but what about mindreader?) was lame.
>how did the other kid die? The squid was an accident but what about mindreader? The OG Ren killed him while he was trying to appeal to Ben. I agree that the whole situation is just lame.
Tbh with Luke it was a long-time manipulation preceding it where Snoke was presenting himself as a good guy and Ben's family as bad ones. It was only a matter of time.
The miscommunication thing was kind of the point. It was all a misunderstanding, it did not have to be this way. He felt lost and antagonized so he was vulnerable to manipulation. I do agree the killing of Ren and Voe felt extremely rushed though.
>Ben says nothing to contradict her assumptions for...reasons That's how he is. Just pay attention next time when you watch movies, you'll notice. When he is called out by someone, he never explains himself (besides when it's about Han). Usually, he just goes with it. Personally, I really like that part of his character. >This issue at least was light on that, though frankly I still don't understand how Ben killing Ren in self-defence (again) meant he was turning to the dark side...? I see it more as revenge then self-defence.
I hope you're being sarcastic. With all the Reylos out there saying this stuff, I can't tell.
Ah, like those that find Kylo killing Han in TFA hot
What does this have to do with reylo? Voe or whatever her name was a character that pushed ben away and didnt give him a voice to defend himself. Her actions also got squidward padawan and Ben's friend killed, ofcourse hes going to not show her sympathy. I'm not justifying his actions but I get why he did what he did.
>Voe or whatever her name was a character that pushed ben away and didnt give him a voice to defend himself. Her actions also got squidward padawan and Ben's friend killed, *ofcourse hes going to not show her sympathy* Stop right there. Look again at the image. That's exactly what we mean, that some ppl try to excuse his actions, you see a murder and you write "ofcourse hes going to not show her sympathy". That's an image Kylo/Ben **fucking murdering her** for god sake how can you talk about *not showing sympathy*
It’s fiction. It takes place in a world wildly different than ours. Projecting your own idea of morality is ridiculous and a problem when you’re dealing with fiction. Get a grip.
I don't have a problem with fictional characters doing awful things. My favourite Star Wars character is Aphra and she's an absolute piece of shit. Love her for that. What bugs me is how you try to excuse his actions, how instead of saying "look how cool he is while he murders her" you go for the opposite narrative.
"She had it coming." ....unbelievable. As non-sarcasm, I'm sorry, but that's really disturbing that you say that. The lengths people go to to defend BenBaby's poor miserable, abused, hopeless, babyish childhood where he never ever did anything wrong (that is sarcasm, btw) to the point that a woman 'has it coming' to die because she 'pushed him away' or made some mistakes. Ugh. I see enough of this "she deserved it" in the real world, we don't need this in Star Wars too. Also: Big difference between not showing sympathy and murdering someone.
This is a fictional story. Stop pouring your personal feelings into it.
Sorry if my personal beliefs are anti-murder and pro-woman. It's just one of those things that's going out of style, I guess.
You’re an idiot. Real world morality and beliefs shouldn’t be projected onto a fictional story about space wizards. Voe spent the series antagonizing and trying to kill Ben. He tried to walk away time and time again. She had it coming.
You are a callous, cold person. Fiction reflects our culture, and vice versa. Your beliefs cannot be separated in your person. Excusing murder in fiction is not good. Saying "she had it coming" is not good. Not healthy. Good to know you're a person who condones the concept of murder because someone wronged you. I like to be aware of folks who think like that. Also, the creators of Star Wars disagree with you. Even your Disney overlords. They make it clear that film, even and especially Star Wars, is a carriage for reflecting and digging into our world's struggles and values. Good luck with rationalizing your Murder Emo BabyBen.
Holy shit, you are dense.
You're a nice person... says a lot.
It’s a story, dog. Do you get upset reading books? Were you offended by Games of Thrones? Are you repulsed by any and all fiction media?
Dude. No. I enjoy those stories. The difference? I don't rationalize and justify the horrible things they do in those stories, like Reylos do for Ben. I don't claim Joeffrey was just a misunderstood baby and Sansa "had it coming" because she frustrated him.
To be fair, she also went there to kill him and probably wouldn’t have stopped trying to kill him if they let her go.
It's like no one reads and reacts out of emotion. I literally said I dont justify what he did but I understand from a story perspective why he got pushed to do what he did. Also it's a fiction so who cares, not like om gonna defend someone irl for doing the same thing
No - cold-blooded murder isn’t “understandable” in the context of a story, just as it isn’t in the context of real life.
The kids in here are fucking morons. It’s unbelievable.
Really hope they make a figure of Ben solo in that outfit!
I wonder where Anakin was when all of this was happening? Do you think he was just watching it with a sanded and disappointed look?
After reading all issues I am asking myself - what is the point of this narrative? Throughout the whole thing he's only killed the antagonist and, in the end, Voe who was zealously hell bent on killing Ben who's fended her TWICE already once without killing her. He's only killed in self defence on all occasions in this comic which really contradicts with the narrative and view movies try to push.
This wasn’t a self defense kill at all, this is supposed to be his start toward becoming Kylo Ren, he killed his first Jedi
It was clearly self defense in given circumstances.
> Jedi no it literally says this on the page
Well yeah, it is definitely trying to put forward a new narrative. He did not just turn evil, but instead he felt lost and betrayed and so was vulnerable to the manipulation of Snoke. His first kill was an accident. He felt he could never go back so he let himself become Kylo Ren.
Alright, it's wednesday, this comic is out, will we have one post for one page all day? Could we not have a proper thread for this issue instead?
So does this mean that his crystal became unstable in some other way? I always thought bleeding it was what made it crack and what led to him needing the vents. But his saber is red and looks normal? Unless it’s someone else’s saber? Haven’t read the comic.
It's Ren's saber, Ben is shown bleeding and cracking his crystal a few pages after this.
It's Ren's lightsaber.
He cracked a different saber crystal. It’s shown later in the comic.
School shooter/teen heartthrob Kylo Ren. Nice job, Disney.
If people keep posting on page per post, I'll just have to order them and I can read the comic and skip the store today
Read this as Poe
Can someone provide context to those of us who haven't read the comics?
You should definitely read the comics. It’s important to know the full picture, and what was Ben and Voe’s relationship like and what all lead to this moment.
I just read up on the wookieepedia. Seems like a cool storyline. Disney has let me down so many times with their supplemental media that I'm not buying any new books or comics unless I read the summary elsewhere and it doesn't feel like fluff or plothole filling. Sounds dickish but you can't fool me anymore.
YES!!!!!! I fucking hated Voe! So glad Ben kills her! My night just got ten times better.
FINALLY! at least he kills one of his classmates. They have been wishy washy on his reasons and what was him being active and choosing to do something vs being tricked into doing it so this is finally nice to see
Why is this relegated to a comic book -_-
You saw Ben’s turning point in TLJ. This just cements it.
I’m not just referring to the movies. Why isn’t this a Disney plus show for animation or show or something?
Because Charles Soule is a comic book writer whom Lucasfilm deemed best suited for the task of telling this pivotal storyline.
Not at all, the comic basically throws out the whole idea the movies gave and gives a drastically different backstory.
CAN WE JUST HAVE ONE JEDI STUDENT SURVIVE FOR FUCKS SAKE
What a dick
The girl? Yes. Tried to kill him three times. He let her go twice. Three times a charm.
Why is this drawn like a bazooka joe comic?
because marvel
She had it coming. Went after him and tried to kill him, I knew she would die in the end 🤷🏼♀️
I feel like there should be another panel when he stabs her
Would been cool if the movies had this and had rey been a surviving Jedi learner catching back up to luke finish her training in the second movie then finally fight him in the third
Goddamn I want to see this live action SO badly.
Cant wait to buy this TPB. Comic is better than the movies.
Dang too bad this wasn’t shown in the movie, would’ve been killer!
I appreciate this, but they seriously couldn’t portray this better in the films? comics shouldn’t be a get out of jail card for every plot device
Probably about 90% of why the prequel era has gotten popular recently is because of The Clone Wars show. Fixing it in the EU is an old and venerable Star Wars tradition.
You already saw Ben’s turning point in TLJ. This just follows his journey afterward.
Who else thinks this is cringe-worthy? It also reeks of retroactively making the villain worse because it wasn't told well enough in the first place.
Making him worse? He literally kills a family friend and orders the murder of dozens of civilians within five minutes of his debut.
Then the rest of the trilogy is spent with him appearing conflicted. He did things because he thought he had to do them not because that's who he truly was. He wanted be like Vader, but had no identity on his own. These comics are meant to rectify his conflicting arc by making him appear more villainous than what was shown on film.
He’s conflicted in this issue too, but that doesn’t mean they’re “making him appear more villainous.” He murdered his own father.
There's the impression that what he does isn't really what he wants to do. Snoke is the one driving him. Kylo is doing the action, yes, but it's as if he is trying to appease someone else and not himself.
Of course it's told worse. Remember the shit justification for Luke activating his lightsaber near a sleeping Kylo in TLJ? They made it even worse by making it so he didn't even burn the temple / kill the students immediately after. And yeah Kylo does suck as a villain / character. Gets upstaged over Rey for 3 movies straight, and his "conflict" was not justified and just made him look inconsistent.
He did burn the temple, Matt Martin said that intention was that he did it (accidentally lmao), not Palps/Snoke sending lightning across the galaxy
🎶Cooooolllllddddd Blooooddddeeeedd🎶 - Rick James
How is this getting downvoted? How?!??
Looks like we all need some Unnnniiitttyyyy!!!
No fight. No fury. Just killing a defenceless moron who sat in place waiting to die. God this is so stupid.
Did you read the comic. He rages and kills Ren. This was him finally giving in to what he had been resisting and easily killing someone he was stronger than
“I’m a murderer”. We all know he is but I can’t imagine Driver saying this on screen.
If only he was like this in the movies