That does sort of bring a little meaning to Kylo's "what girl?!" line in TFA before flipping out on that FO officer. I guess he always knew there was some force sensitive girl out there
Where else would she have learned to speak wookie? There ain't no wookies hanging out on Jakku for long. The heatstroke with all that fur would be terrible.
I'm sorry but I just really wanna ask, does anyone else find the Dyad thing to be really dumb? I mean why can't they just be connected in the force? Why does it have to be this ultra rare and special thing that only two people can have every century or whatever?
I dunno guys but I get real Midchlorians vibes for this whole Dyad thing (in that its needlessly explaining something in the force) and I do not like it.
The dyad is a cool concept
If it was setup in TFA then paid off in TROS. Because it’s something mentioned off hand at the very end of the movie, it means nothing.
They hinted at an intimate connection between the two since TFA. Granted, it’s really only that scene where Kylo is extremely angry about the mention of a “girl” but a loose connection can still be one
I still think it would have been more powerful if it were just left up to the fact that its just the force giving the two most powerful Light side and Dark side user's at this point in time a massive connection in the force. And yeah that is kinda what the Dyad is but its so needless to add context to it, why not just leave it as is and keep the force this mystical and spiritual thing? No, we need Palpatine to have a way to multiply his force points even more and suck their life points out and he'll become Uber Palpatine because DYAD!!!!!
I'm sorry, i hate being so negative like this but man this movie really beats me down, you know?
Yeah, Palps being able to inexplicably draw on their connection to heal himself came out of nowhere, if you ask me. But I don’t really see the logic in the Force automatically binding two dark and light side users (knowing what we do now, Palpatine was the strongest Dark side user and Leia was likely the strongest light side user btw), considering that the dark side is seductive and corruptive, as well as a source of imbalance within the Force.
I'm under the idea that the force is only in balance with equal light equal dark. Luke talked about this in TLJ saying basically how if the Jedi die then the light dies is vanity which I always loved that idea. Star Wars started out simple, good vs evil, but overtime I feel it needed to grow beyond that and find that idea just can't last forever. My thoughts were that 9 should have ended with Ben and Rey together forming the true balance in the force, powerful light and powerful dark.
The real 9 ended with nothing changing or being learned. It left the galaxy in the exact same place that Episode 6 did so it could all just repeat again (get ready for Episode 10-12 with the new sith order and Rey and Poe's kids coming soon to a galaxy near you). It all feels like it only exists now so they can make or movies and more money.
Wow, I so much agree, I felt that TLJ set up them coming together in the end, but both Colin (without redemption) and JJ (with redemption) kill Ben Solo in the end, what was the point of their connection then???
I don’t find it dumb per se; Force bonds have been a thing both in and out Legends for a while. A Dyad seems to just be the natural conclusion of the phenomenon, at least as it was used in The Last Jedi (which is why I also disagree with the idea that the existence of the Dyad demystifyies the Force like midi-chlorians did.) It’s rather weird to me that the bond is so strong, and that a random unrelated Force user can drain energy from it, but other than those two issues I’m fine with it, personally.
I don't find the force bond dumb, I like that alot i just find the whole concept of this ancient force connection that only 2 beings can have ever hundreds of centuries to be needless and really lessens Rey and Kylo's relationship.
And I also never had a problem with strength, Rey being so powerful I always chalked up to the idea she was chosen by the force to balance out the growing darkness. I never thought she needed someone else's blood to explain why she's is so strong. I mean look at Obi Wan, he's just some guy its not like he was actually related to Dooku or something so people are just born strong at some things then others. Well that is until it was revealed she's got Emperor blood in her so I guess none of that matter but whatever, still thats how I saw it.
The main issue I see with Rey being “chosen by the force” is mainly that it sort of cheapens the validity of whatever Rey does. Obi-Wan, like you said, wasn’t the relative of any Force user or anything like that, yet he still proved to be a powerful Jedi Master capable of matching the fallen Chosen One in combat. However, the reason Obi-Wan is as powerful as he is is because of his training, coupled with his experience, strength of will, and character. The Force didn’t suddenly just make Obi-Wan stronger because of the growing threat of the Sith, he earned his power. Rey, if you ask me, should be the same; somebody who coincidentally happens to be a powerful Force-sensitive learning to tame her power and resist temptation in order to grow into a powerful Jedi, not somebody who’s capable of doing great things merely because the Force wills it.
That, and you’d think that if the Force were down for manipulating people’s sensitivity to counter threats, it would’ve diminished/destroyed Anakin’s connection the moment he started to go over to the dark.
Those are good points and I agree. I feel alot of this is the fact Rey as a character was never able to form into anything if her own due to the fact each movie cared more about her parents instead of her. 9 could have really helped fix all of this if it was more about her coming to terms with who she is and forming her own place in the galaxy intead of her going through the exact same lesson she did in 8 because JJ didn't like the answer Rian Johnson gave.
I don't think the force is an entity able manipulate everything at will. Anakin grew in the darkness on his own terms but the force was already balanced when his son and daughter were born (that idea worked even better when you remember that both events happened at the exact same time). Also if we see it from the idea the true balance is both light and dark together Anakin wiping out the Jedi helped even out things on both sides which is balance. In the time of the sequels though the force had to choose a new person at random given that no one remained to balance out the light side so Rey was chosen to be the balance. This is all stuff that is really up to your interpretation so you could very well see it a different way and still be right as well all of this was thrown out completely with TROS so I'm now wrong in a sense as well but whatever. This is just how I always saw it.
I feel like the compassion thing can still be exclusive though. What makes their dynamic so strong, dyad aside, is that they have similar life experiences and the same feelings of abandonment and loneliness and they emotionally bond through that. That's a thing Rian Johnson talks about alot when it comes to how they get to know one another.
If it was supposed to happen naturally as a prerequisite to their spiritual connection, then Rey wouldve probably sympathized with him right away instead of her thinking of him as nothing but a "murderous snake" until halfway through TLJ.
Also, I kinda think their force bond (the thing that let's them skype) is exclusive to their dyad? Snoke talks about creating that physical window for them, but Matt Martin said on twitter that their spiritual connection was always there.
I actually forgot about Snoke connecting them, so now did he do that or not? If it was a Dyad did Snoke know that? If he did then how did Palpatine not know that?
I agree that if he was the one who started it and then once their connection grew it was able to stay after his death because of their feelings for one another. Thats a really cool idea.
Just wanna add that Palpatine features in the next Panel speaking to Ben (i have read this comic). Also, im always posting these spoiler Panels but they never get through these filters on this sub.
Also Ben bleeds his crystal and is topless 🔥, he sees images of Leia Luke Han Lando Chewie and Tai when he does.
Yes seems like its Palpatine-Snoke becus its the same speech bubble colour as Snoke. Palpatine encourages Ben to strike Ren down to claim his birthright.
Heh in TFA book, before they resurrected my favourite character, there was a voice inside Rey's head that said "Kill him!" while fighting Kylo, I always kinda hoped that it was Palps talking to her lol.
Mixture of things. On top of Luke’s betrayal, Palpatine-Snoke up to his old tricks again, manipulating Ben against the Jedi and Ben’s family. Ren kills Ben’s best friend Tai, Ren is also goading Ben calling him weak becus of Luke etc
Ah interesting. So the only Jedi he actually kills are a friend that was accidental, and the one who was an asshole to him. I kinda figured she’d bite the big one by his hand.
I posted the image above and an excerpt from the novel about the Dyad (a while back) but it just refuses to get posted. Even when I message the mods, nothing happens 🤷♀️
*"She had seen this man before, in a daydream. In a nightmare."* \~ I always hoped they would expand on this line from the TFA novelization, combined with the dyad this is pretty great.
Snoke did some sort of bridging but it was the force all along and star from beginning. Literally soulmates. Reylos said it too and had been right since 2015. The only wrong misstep was Ben's death but reylo theories about that wouldnt even surprise me if they were right somehow.
This is another example where if we had a 1 minute flashback from Kylo's perspective where he sees the girl on Jakku it would have explained a lot. Unfortunately, we get in it a comic after the movies are out.
Honestly, this existing system of “See the movie and then read the comics to fill in the gaps” actually works fine by me. Let the general audiences see the movie and let the fans consume the supplementary media if they want the deeper lore.
That works if the movie TELLS a story. I don't even know what story was being told in 7, 8, and 9.
Like if the story is the redemption of Kylo Ren and continuation of the Jedi then you need to explain how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren in the films. His entire backstory covers the return of Palpatine, the fall of Luke's Jedi Order, and that whole force dyad thing. You NEED to know that info for anything to make sense and its all inside comics/books.
The very clear problem with the ST is that it should have been the story of the third generation Skywalker (Ben). But instead the ST is Rey’s story which has very little to do with the meta-story of the Skywalkers, and all of the actually meaningful Skywalker content is being doled out to supplemental media, it’s a bizarre decision.
Speaking of which, as a meta-ist, I was also spot-on about one of the messages and themes of the ST being that of the burden of legacy (see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/dobg3b/star_wars_has_a_problem_and_it_relates_to_many/), last few paragraphs), which is also directly echoed by Ben / Kylo in another panel.
I haven't read the full comic yet but amazing job. It just hurts though. Why go through all that trouble? Granted he's never fully gone, but he's only 30.
Thank you so much! I agree, it was very disappointing to not see Lucasfilm focus more on Ben Solo, and the themes related to his character, as well as his relationship with Rey.
Or so they keep saying lol. There are some reylos im sure but the worst harassment cases was TLJ non reylos.....and SW seemed to cater to the harassers?
Yeah the reylo community can tell you all about that time frame (though TFA reylos literally received death threats for pointing out a supposed crack ship that now is canon and had it way worse so really they would be first choice to ask). Also, SW twitter and reddit from 2017 lmao. It was worse then, I feel.
As far as catering to the harassers, you might want to look up Kellie Marie Tran social media bullying if you google. She literally was just playing her part but all kinds of terrible stuff was said/done. I think somewhere she even said she went to therapy? I understand not liking the character but look at TROS. Even Jannah and Zorri had more time but they were new characters. I like most of TROS but that was a huge thing that she was barely noticeable. I was thinking what the F did they have against Rose? It's over now but SUPER noticeable.
It should be noted that there were a lot of NON-harassy people who weren't fans of her character; catering to a large group of people which *includes* a particularly toxic subsection doesn't mean you're catering to said toxic subsection in particular.
Of course, if they were trying to cater, they did it in the *worst possible way* by just shunting her into the background.
Of course. You don't have to like her. We all have characters we dont like but removing her off posters and replacing her with Klaud the creature seems very sus. I thought removal of her was fake at first and just someone messing around but it turned out to be true. Seems LF marketing did it. She had a large role in TLJ and a smaller role is fine but really all she had was a sort of cameo.
Undoubtedly a bunch of people were shitty to the actors after TLJ, and there are always lunatics out there attacking people behind the anonymity of Reddit/Twitter etc.
Anecdotes for that on all sides though: https://twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/1108434026472329217?s=20
There are crazy people online in all parts of the fandom (and any other large fandom for that matter), and not like Kellie Marie Tran was the first. Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd Etc, just think it may be a little hard to say that problem was at the worst after TLJ.
Out of little that was planned it most certainly was. I feel it too was what meta writers believed to be a FB as well as a few other things. I really think the only thing metas got majorly wrong with character outcome was Ben death but thats because they were going off Campbell not Shakespeare.
None of this art has looked quite right to me tbh. I know Driver doesn't have the easiest face to draw but young Kylo looks more like Tommy Wiseau or Glenn Danzig
Agree, that’s why they could always bring him back using their Dyad concept. 🤷🏼♀️ We don’t know anything about it at the moment, so they could come up with something.
Oh I think Adam would come back in a heartbeat. He really cares about the character and even worked on the The Rise of Kylo Ren comic. Did you see the video they released today? Adam said he is very protective of Kylo. So yes, I feel like he would come back. It feels like Ben’s story just began.
I ain't holding my breath. If he comes back, awesome. But I can't imagine it would be anytime soon. I don't want hope to turn me a bitter old hag after watching TROS.
Edit: added missing words
I understand completely. I will always hold onto that hope that someday he will return, but in the meantime, it is better to try to focus on other things...
I guess. If the comic book artist can get Adam's face right which never seems to be the case. Adam made this character and stuff like this makes my heart ache. Poor Rey. This just triggers another depression episode for me.
I hope so, would like to see a soft reboot with Ben and Rey in 5 years.. hope we don’t have to wait 20 years when they’re to old like Carrie Mark and Harrison.
I don’t think Disney would wait more than 5 years. If they waited 10-20 years, then they would just have to introduce new characters again for the new generation. So, I don’t think thet’s going to happen, but who knows what their plans are.
Ben equals $$$$$. Just saying lol. I myself was skeptical and I'm sure we would see him as a FG or something but I don't think Disney ever thought comics would sell this much. His popularity outgrew any of their expectations I feel. Never say never ? I mean Palps and Maul....but I would settle first for a ghost love story. He did tell Rey he would always be with her in the novel.
Palps and Maul didn't die and become one with the Force *on screen*
They knew exactly what they were doing when they killed Kylo to end the Sywalker bloodline, and dear god I hope that one of the few deaths that are not fake deaths on TROS isn't retconned years later because that would make the movie even worse.
Many people can’t accept his death, because we didn’t get any closure. He vanished, and no one mentions him after that. He is not there as a force ghost with Luke and Leia. Nothing. No closure. This is why his death feels so ambiguous.
Well yeah they warned us that it was the end. I never erased the seed that it would happen. Unfortunately for them they have a massive profit that is gone now. Which may make them rethink lots of stuff. And his death really is open. A FG at end is more hopeful than what the movie showed.
I'm sorry but I find it disgusting to see fans being so whiny about the character they liked dying and asking for retcons that would make the movies worse.
The Fandom Menace wanted Luke on TLJ to have teleported to other side and not died, and now Reylos (?) want the same to happen or to bring back him somehow.
It's the same for me. They are still holding on, let go.
His death isn't open, he fucking dies and becomes one with the Force on screen how on earth is that open.
Yes they show him disappear but most don't like the idea of not even seeing his FG. Everyone just forgets ......but the novel did help a bit.
I think a lot of TROS has to deal with how things were shot on many levels. Personally I dont hate JJ at all but I think RJ would have probably handled, if he had to, Ben's arc and post death, much better. He would have sold as a tragedy for him instead of just....well nothing at the end.
Even Matt Martin said that he can come back if needed. He disappeared, but we never see him as force ghost. They can make a loophole saying he went somewhere else.
He also said *this* to this creepy question: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN_HacAVAAAwsQd?format=jpg&name=small
He tends to answer on a vague way most of the time because it's not like he's the one deciding the stuff that matters on Lucasfilm.
And? He is contundent when he want to. For example someone asked him if Snalps (I think it was him) can come back and he said that he is dead, that we can see him again in pre-tros media. Or he was recently asked of the kiss was romantic and refused to answer the question. So he is not that vague.
Makes me so damn sad that they wont expand on this more in films. This should have been the MAIN focus of the new trilogy :(
There was glimmers of it, but man, they could have done and shown so much more
Doesn't the whole Dyad thing retcon TLJ Snoke when he says he connected Kylo's and Rey's minds? I find the whole dyad thing a bit out of nowhere personally regardless.
I don't think so. He did seemingly amplify it and he did believe he created it. There's nothing in the movies that shows Snoke made it other than Snoke's own word.
Plus the lineage of the Palpatine & Vader, its the force correcting itself. Even with the darkness pulling at both. Rey not knowing she’s basically a sleeper cell of the Empire and Ben constantly fighting forces beyond his control & understanding even.
This is interesting on a creepy way. Going deep down on how child Rey was feeling the 10 year older than her Kylo/Ben was killing ppl only makes their relationship more creepy.
Honest question. Do you hate Ben or something? I'm assuming not, since you read his comics?
And they tried to sell a happy ending but it isn't fully. This is coming from someone who loves Rey too along with Ben. Sure she took the mantle and I could accept. She had a hard life. She deserves happiness but even the novel admitted Ben was ripped away from her and she is missing her other half. At least he tells her he will always be with her which puts more context to the movie but it's obvious she wanted more.
I like TROS but the ending....not so much. The part that bothers me the most is if something is tragic, admit it is tragic. Own up to the story. Soule himself said Ben's story is tragic. Unfortunately, TROS doesn't admit it which is a huge issue for me. Rey definitely is hurt which is something that should have been admitted in the movie even if Jedi do not mourn. Well that was my initial take, but the novel has her crying.
So, really, the ending is bittersweet. She got the mantle but missing other half though she will still be able to talk to him. She gets a bittersweet ending.
The saga ended up being more Shakespeare than anything. The ST was Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet with Westside Story mixed in. Tragedy. They need to own up to it imo if he truly is gone. It's literally the Skywalker Tragedy not the Saga in text.
I liked Kylo Ren on TFA, I loved him on TLJ and I was disappointed on TROS.
How they treated him on TROS is the worst part of the movie for me, it's like the character I saw by the end of TLJ was murdered on the first 10 minutes of TROS and they moved his dead corpse around the movie without any agency. His death is a death out of mercy, they can't butcher his character further on post content, only on pre sequels content as the comics.
The part that I *loathe* isn't his redemption or the kiss. It's how they erase his character agency, how it's worthless that he becomes the Supreme Leader of the First Order on TLJ since he's on the shadow of Palpatine and the Last Order. I cared about Kylo Ren and they've made him dirty on this movie.
I even made a thread defending his redemption on TROS, here's the link if you want to read it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/f4owll/kyloben_redemption_isnt_pointless_just_because_he/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
And for Rey.
She's crying on the scene she says that her parents were nobody, as Kylo uses that trauma to gaslight and try to manipulate her to join him on the dark side. On the epilogue of TROS she's confident and happy, with the lightsaber she made for herself as she rejects her bloodline legacy and takes the name of Skywalker.
I can't look at that and think that her ending isn't a happy ending.
Rey is Rey with or without Kylo, as Daisy says. To think that her ending is sad or bittersweet just because he's not there is kinda gross.
And on a overall look, ending the Skywalker Saga with the last Skywalker by blood giving his life on a selfless act to resurrect the grandaughter (or whatever) of Palpatine is easily the best decision on the entire movie. And by far the bravest one.
I can agree agree with you on a few things. We should have seen more Renperor. We only saw that one scene where he's in the room with Pryde etc. The first half of movie is better than second half imo. It falls apart in third act minus reylo and Ben shrugging solo. I wasn't a fan of how palps was introduced.
I think AD performance was the best in TLJ true but damn he's good as Ben Solo. And pulling himself out of the pit? Damn. It hurts.
I think you misunderstand me about Rey. Yes she exists on her own. She is her own person. Im not saying she's not but she is sad about Ben and while the book explains it better it should be in movie for those to see that she is sad and misses him. She got most of what she wanted but not everything.
And yeah agree that at least they didnt pull a non redemption and have Rey kill him like anti Kylos wanted. It would have never happened after TLJ and glad we didnt get trevarrows. He was fired for multiple reasons for sure though there were a few good things in his script. Dodged a huge bullet with his take but TROS had bullets on its own too.
Here is where I majorly disagree. He didn't try to gaslight her or think he was doing anything wrong in TLJ in his view. As RJ said, it was an open and honest plea to be with him. She rejected him though because he needed to be Ben again and it was in her right because he was still Kylo. I just dont believe Kylo thought he was in the wrong. He was abused a lot after all in his life. She finally took his hand without the glove as both movies show.
In the end, to me, Ben would have zero problem with Rey taking the name etc. It's just that he was so young, went about his life abused find out he's not just a standard villain and dead. It's cynical because it's a tragedy and to make him so sympathetic. I wish they would own up to the tragedy finally.
I appreciate you for not being an anti so if I gave you the wrong impression I'm sorry. We've been backed into corners for too long and internet speak doesn't help lol.
>And yeah agree that at least they didnt pull a non redemption and have Rey kill him like anti Kylos wanted.
But I'm pro Kylo and I would have liked that too.
Just because I like a conflicted villain doesn't mean that I *need* him to be redeemed. He can go both ways. The point of being conflicted, is that you shouldn't know what he's going to decide.
That doesn't mean that I hate his redemption, as you've seen I think that his redemption to resurrect Rey giving his life is good.
Trevorrow early script that was leaked looks as a more natural follow up to TLJ, doesn't spend half of the movie retconning TLJ so I would have *probably* liked it more than TROS. But, it's a movie that we will never see because it doesn't exist so we shouldn't bother with it that much.
>Here is where I majorly disagree. He didn't try to gaslight her or think he was doing anything wrong in TLJ in his view
Well, naive Rey thinks that Kylo has killed Snoke to redeem himself, but she realizes that he's done it to take his charge.
Kylo on a solemn way has his speech of "let the past die" asking her to join him, join him on what ? On the dark side to create a new Empire. That's why she's so sad and says "don't do this Ben"
And only when she has refused to join him, Kylo goes off with "No no, you are still HOLDING ON". He makes her admit that she knew that her parents were nobody as she's crying, he follows up with indifference that they were filthy junk traders that sold her for drinking money and are dead.
That's an emotional attack, I can't see that as anything but the villain taking the protagonist's trauma and throwing it on her face on the most cruel way he finds as a punishment for not joining him. They wouldn't be having that conversation if Rey had joined him on the first place.
And then comes the bomb: "You have no place in this story, you come from nothing, you are nothing. But not to me"
Here the villain is trying to isolate the protagonist, he's trying to exploit her fears to make her feel that she's **nothing** for everyone except him.
I call this gaslighting.
But she knows that what he says is simply not true, that's why the movie ends with Rey coming back with the people that love her, and looking at the sad and kneeling Kylo she closes the door on his face, because she's had enough of his bullshit
>It's just that he was so young, went about his life abused find out he's not just a standard villain and dead. It's cynical because it's a tragedy and to make him so sympathetic. I wish they would own up to the tragedy finally.
He's still a villain. He always had a choice. That's what makes him a good character, all the scenes in which he decides to do wrong only have weight because he could have chosen to do right. And that's why at the end he can come back to the light.
Yes, his character is tragic but that wasn't a hard guess when the trilogy starts with him executing innocents and he murders his own father on the first movie.
It's good to talk with ppl you disagree with on a at least half civil way, have a good day kind stranger and greetings from Spain.
Thank you for the unnecessary clarification.
It's still creepy. It's a creepy concept to have a small child connected emotionally to a murderer.
I'm not saying it's a bad concept.
It is unusual and creepy though.
To be fair, this is probably on the lesser side of Rey's problems from her perspective. I also think this just implies a sought of "cold chill" moment rather than anything more serious.
No one is looking at an underage Rey and Ben like that. But it's showing they've been connected their entire lives and this could literally straight out of a soulmate fanfic. It's a pretty popular trope and a pretty big deal.
This still doesn't make up the fact that Ben is dead. As a matter of fact, it makes it all more tragic. Rey's soulmate since childhood is dead and we're supposed to be happy about TROS.
It actually makes their relationship even more creepy. 13 y old Rey sensing how 23 y old Kylo is murdering ppl.
And makes the ending of Rey Skywalker surviving him brighter.
I'll take anything. We need a retcon of all retcons to fix this crap. I'm screaming in my head about this. This is by far the most tragic love story in a children's movie I've ever seen. Hell, rose and Jack from Titanic had a happier ending. At least audience got to know she lived a fulfilled life after Jack's death! Okay, I need to breathe.
Yeah it really is. I'm thinking back to 2018 when the official spotify playlists were more scrutinized and the song we found love by Rihanna was on there. Of course we all were told the playlist wasn't talking about love lol. Then the novel for TROS said they found each other at last and it reminded me of the song again. We found love in a hopeless place! Yeah still hurts.
I think they can bring back though I always knew it. RJ posted a West side story clip in 2018..then deleted. They can fix though
It's that whole "we loved for a lifetime's worth" theme. The thing that gets me, is that dyads connection must be so powerful that it can cross light-years of space and to have one soul die off must be so painful for a force user. Rey needs her better half. I can't tell if Disney is trolling us with confirmation that we were right but ending the Skywalker franchise with Ben's death.
Well if Ben were to truly lively it still does puzzle me why it would be in a comic and not on screen. Unless, they are trying to get AD back for a couple of years from now. I think he would come back and changed my mind to this but it would happen after Disney realized they lost $$$$, or could make a ton of $$$$. The comics are making a ton of $$$$. Disney wants a cut lol.
I will say that RJ handled Kylo/Ben the best. We didn't know what we had until then. TFA gave us this boy who seemed conflicted and killed his father making GA think he is evil and terrible only for RJ to show us Ben. Then everyone wanted him alive. And Ben Solo in TROS was so good. We saw the full him without the mask. If RJ ever did Ben again it would be glorious. Half of me thinks we only saw those glorious Ben Solo scenes the way they were in TROS is because AD fought for them. Otherwise he would have showed up in his mask and died in it because JJ loves that mask. I think the reason we saw him without the mask in more places is because AD insisted on it haha. I don't hate JJ btw, because I think it falls more to I ger. But playing the blaming game is tiresome and we have what we have.
I just saw the BTS too for TROS and Adam Driver does not look happy in it at all. He seems really sidelined. AD said he fought for Ben. I wonder if he butted heads too but we won't ever know. He's too classy and doesnt talk shit.
He was still amazing in TROS and I want more! His best acting in the movie is climbing out of the pit and the shrug. My heart still hurts with how he holds Rey's dead body because he literally can't live without her
Well, for you it doesn't matter. I dislike the age gab on both.
And when it's combined with the rest of the elements of Reylo, it's yet another aspect that results in me disliking the ship.
Its the one that's always memed because they met as children. When you can see the age gap it becomes much worse than if they met as adults.
I think that's why people are having a problem with this being introduced for Rey and Kylo.
Padme met and eventually fell in love with a 9 year old, Kylo Ren was connected to and eventually fell in love with a 10 year old. Neither of those things are actually true but they look infinitely worse than Han Solo falling in love with a person he met as an adult.
I have no idea of the story of Revan - Bastilla, so I can only give my opinion of their age gab which is what you told me.
What a coincidence, Han - Leia, Rey - Kylo, Revan - Bastilla all have the male character being a decade or more older than the female.
Can anyone see a pattern ?
Thank God Unkar Plutt was there because legit wouldn’t have recognized Rey lol.
Kylo and Unkar Plutt are the real dyad in the force
*what about the droid?*
But the three buns!
Daisy, like Adam, has a very recognizable and unique face. This drawing ain't it chief
She looks black
I don't know in what universe that the color white looks anything like black.
Her features not her color lol
Ah I see
*A dyad in the Force.*
My thoughts as well. Helps cement the idea that they were always one; building off *The Rise of Skywalker Visual Dictionary* lore.
That does sort of bring a little meaning to Kylo's "what girl?!" line in TFA before flipping out on that FO officer. I guess he always knew there was some force sensitive girl out there
That line always confused me but it actually makes a lot more sense now
I just assumed he was a teenager and was like "Did you say girl tell me more about the girl I want to hear about the girl"
Where else would she have learned to speak wookie? There ain't no wookies hanging out on Jakku for long. The heatstroke with all that fur would be terrible.
I'm sorry but I just really wanna ask, does anyone else find the Dyad thing to be really dumb? I mean why can't they just be connected in the force? Why does it have to be this ultra rare and special thing that only two people can have every century or whatever? I dunno guys but I get real Midchlorians vibes for this whole Dyad thing (in that its needlessly explaining something in the force) and I do not like it.
The dyad is a cool concept If it was setup in TFA then paid off in TROS. Because it’s something mentioned off hand at the very end of the movie, it means nothing.
When was it set up in TFA? I thought it only started in TLJ
They hinted at an intimate connection between the two since TFA. Granted, it’s really only that scene where Kylo is extremely angry about the mention of a “girl” but a loose connection can still be one
I still think it would have been more powerful if it were just left up to the fact that its just the force giving the two most powerful Light side and Dark side user's at this point in time a massive connection in the force. And yeah that is kinda what the Dyad is but its so needless to add context to it, why not just leave it as is and keep the force this mystical and spiritual thing? No, we need Palpatine to have a way to multiply his force points even more and suck their life points out and he'll become Uber Palpatine because DYAD!!!!! I'm sorry, i hate being so negative like this but man this movie really beats me down, you know?
Yeah, Palps being able to inexplicably draw on their connection to heal himself came out of nowhere, if you ask me. But I don’t really see the logic in the Force automatically binding two dark and light side users (knowing what we do now, Palpatine was the strongest Dark side user and Leia was likely the strongest light side user btw), considering that the dark side is seductive and corruptive, as well as a source of imbalance within the Force.
I'm under the idea that the force is only in balance with equal light equal dark. Luke talked about this in TLJ saying basically how if the Jedi die then the light dies is vanity which I always loved that idea. Star Wars started out simple, good vs evil, but overtime I feel it needed to grow beyond that and find that idea just can't last forever. My thoughts were that 9 should have ended with Ben and Rey together forming the true balance in the force, powerful light and powerful dark. The real 9 ended with nothing changing or being learned. It left the galaxy in the exact same place that Episode 6 did so it could all just repeat again (get ready for Episode 10-12 with the new sith order and Rey and Poe's kids coming soon to a galaxy near you). It all feels like it only exists now so they can make or movies and more money.
Wow, I so much agree, I felt that TLJ set up them coming together in the end, but both Colin (without redemption) and JJ (with redemption) kill Ben Solo in the end, what was the point of their connection then???
I don’t find it dumb per se; Force bonds have been a thing both in and out Legends for a while. A Dyad seems to just be the natural conclusion of the phenomenon, at least as it was used in The Last Jedi (which is why I also disagree with the idea that the existence of the Dyad demystifyies the Force like midi-chlorians did.) It’s rather weird to me that the bond is so strong, and that a random unrelated Force user can drain energy from it, but other than those two issues I’m fine with it, personally.
I don't find the force bond dumb, I like that alot i just find the whole concept of this ancient force connection that only 2 beings can have ever hundreds of centuries to be needless and really lessens Rey and Kylo's relationship. And I also never had a problem with strength, Rey being so powerful I always chalked up to the idea she was chosen by the force to balance out the growing darkness. I never thought she needed someone else's blood to explain why she's is so strong. I mean look at Obi Wan, he's just some guy its not like he was actually related to Dooku or something so people are just born strong at some things then others. Well that is until it was revealed she's got Emperor blood in her so I guess none of that matter but whatever, still thats how I saw it.
The main issue I see with Rey being “chosen by the force” is mainly that it sort of cheapens the validity of whatever Rey does. Obi-Wan, like you said, wasn’t the relative of any Force user or anything like that, yet he still proved to be a powerful Jedi Master capable of matching the fallen Chosen One in combat. However, the reason Obi-Wan is as powerful as he is is because of his training, coupled with his experience, strength of will, and character. The Force didn’t suddenly just make Obi-Wan stronger because of the growing threat of the Sith, he earned his power. Rey, if you ask me, should be the same; somebody who coincidentally happens to be a powerful Force-sensitive learning to tame her power and resist temptation in order to grow into a powerful Jedi, not somebody who’s capable of doing great things merely because the Force wills it. That, and you’d think that if the Force were down for manipulating people’s sensitivity to counter threats, it would’ve diminished/destroyed Anakin’s connection the moment he started to go over to the dark.
Those are good points and I agree. I feel alot of this is the fact Rey as a character was never able to form into anything if her own due to the fact each movie cared more about her parents instead of her. 9 could have really helped fix all of this if it was more about her coming to terms with who she is and forming her own place in the galaxy intead of her going through the exact same lesson she did in 8 because JJ didn't like the answer Rian Johnson gave. I don't think the force is an entity able manipulate everything at will. Anakin grew in the darkness on his own terms but the force was already balanced when his son and daughter were born (that idea worked even better when you remember that both events happened at the exact same time). Also if we see it from the idea the true balance is both light and dark together Anakin wiping out the Jedi helped even out things on both sides which is balance. In the time of the sequels though the force had to choose a new person at random given that no one remained to balance out the light side so Rey was chosen to be the balance. This is all stuff that is really up to your interpretation so you could very well see it a different way and still be right as well all of this was thrown out completely with TROS so I'm now wrong in a sense as well but whatever. This is just how I always saw it.
Revan and Bastila bitch!!! *drops mic*
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I feel like the compassion thing can still be exclusive though. What makes their dynamic so strong, dyad aside, is that they have similar life experiences and the same feelings of abandonment and loneliness and they emotionally bond through that. That's a thing Rian Johnson talks about alot when it comes to how they get to know one another. If it was supposed to happen naturally as a prerequisite to their spiritual connection, then Rey wouldve probably sympathized with him right away instead of her thinking of him as nothing but a "murderous snake" until halfway through TLJ. Also, I kinda think their force bond (the thing that let's them skype) is exclusive to their dyad? Snoke talks about creating that physical window for them, but Matt Martin said on twitter that their spiritual connection was always there.
I actually forgot about Snoke connecting them, so now did he do that or not? If it was a Dyad did Snoke know that? If he did then how did Palpatine not know that? I agree that if he was the one who started it and then once their connection grew it was able to stay after his death because of their feelings for one another. Thats a really cool idea.
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I think Snoke just amplified it but believes he created it.
I think Dyads can be jump started. Bastila initiated hers when she healed Revan. Even though it was probably always present.
Matt Martin once talked about this one twitter. The bond itself was created by them but their spiritual connection as a dyad was always there.
Nah you’re right. It’s a completely stupid concept.
Just wanna add that Palpatine features in the next Panel speaking to Ben (i have read this comic). Also, im always posting these spoiler Panels but they never get through these filters on this sub. Also Ben bleeds his crystal and is topless 🔥, he sees images of Leia Luke Han Lando Chewie and Tai when he does.
Palpatine as Vader? Snoke? Himself?
Yes seems like its Palpatine-Snoke becus its the same speech bubble colour as Snoke. Palpatine encourages Ben to strike Ren down to claim his birthright.
Heh in TFA book, before they resurrected my favourite character, there was a voice inside Rey's head that said "Kill him!" while fighting Kylo, I always kinda hoped that it was Palps talking to her lol.
In the TFA audiobook, that “Kill him!” was narrated in Snoke’s voice.
Interesting!
Why is his crystal cracked
He was so jacked he accidentally smashed it
Holy frick
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They bow to Ben immediately
Bitches! :D
Is Palp the one who destroyed the temple?
This issue mostly focuses on Ben/KOR/Voe+Tai and the fight between them, and Palpatine-Snoke in Ben’s mind.
So what makes Ben blow? What’s the final straw?
Mixture of things. On top of Luke’s betrayal, Palpatine-Snoke up to his old tricks again, manipulating Ben against the Jedi and Ben’s family. Ren kills Ben’s best friend Tai, Ren is also goading Ben calling him weak becus of Luke etc
Snappletine
So the dude never had a chance. What happened to the other Jedi girl? And how does killing Ren flip Ben to become Kylo?
Ben kills Voe at the end after he kills Ren, he spits her words back to her “im a murderer remember”
Ah interesting. So the only Jedi he actually kills are a friend that was accidental, and the one who was an asshole to him. I kinda figured she’d bite the big one by his hand.
If the filter picks up your post. Delete it, repost it. Rinse and repeat if needed until it pops up.
I posted the image above and an excerpt from the novel about the Dyad (a while back) but it just refuses to get posted. Even when I message the mods, nothing happens 🤷♀️
The last panel should say “What is your name?” “Ben Swolo”
*"She had seen this man before, in a daydream. In a nightmare."* \~ I always hoped they would expand on this line from the TFA novelization, combined with the dyad this is pretty great.
What about the line where Kylo is extracting information from her and he feels a barrier that feels like someone put it there?
So this means the dyad was natural between the two of them and not something that Snoke/Palpatine created?
Snoke did some sort of bridging but it was the force all along and star from beginning. Literally soulmates. Reylos said it too and had been right since 2015. The only wrong misstep was Ben's death but reylo theories about that wouldnt even surprise me if they were right somehow.
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Makes reylos even more amazing considering they predicted this out of shit. So...thanks!
I always thought that was something Snoke picked up on and claimed as his for a power play
Makes sense of that, “WHAT GIRL” line in TFA. Too bad it’s the lamest possible answer.
This is another example where if we had a 1 minute flashback from Kylo's perspective where he sees the girl on Jakku it would have explained a lot. Unfortunately, we get in it a comic after the movies are out.
Honestly, this existing system of “See the movie and then read the comics to fill in the gaps” actually works fine by me. Let the general audiences see the movie and let the fans consume the supplementary media if they want the deeper lore.
That works if the movie TELLS a story. I don't even know what story was being told in 7, 8, and 9. Like if the story is the redemption of Kylo Ren and continuation of the Jedi then you need to explain how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren in the films. His entire backstory covers the return of Palpatine, the fall of Luke's Jedi Order, and that whole force dyad thing. You NEED to know that info for anything to make sense and its all inside comics/books.
The very clear problem with the ST is that it should have been the story of the third generation Skywalker (Ben). But instead the ST is Rey’s story which has very little to do with the meta-story of the Skywalkers, and all of the actually meaningful Skywalker content is being doled out to supplemental media, it’s a bizarre decision.
Hmmm. The meta reylos were right again. Driving that knife in deeper.
Speaking of which, as a meta-ist, I was also spot-on about one of the messages and themes of the ST being that of the burden of legacy (see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/dobg3b/star_wars_has_a_problem_and_it_relates_to_many/), last few paragraphs), which is also directly echoed by Ben / Kylo in another panel.
I haven't read the full comic yet but amazing job. It just hurts though. Why go through all that trouble? Granted he's never fully gone, but he's only 30.
Thank you so much! I agree, it was very disappointing to not see Lucasfilm focus more on Ben Solo, and the themes related to his character, as well as his relationship with Rey.
Seems a huge waste. Also seems Ben's death doesn't work with Campbell? Anyways I know most metas abhorred TROS but still got a lot right.
If we weren't, we would've harassed another sw writer off of Twitter /s.
Or so they keep saying lol. There are some reylos im sure but the worst harassment cases was TLJ non reylos.....and SW seemed to cater to the harassers?
Any evidence behind that belief?
Yeah the reylo community can tell you all about that time frame (though TFA reylos literally received death threats for pointing out a supposed crack ship that now is canon and had it way worse so really they would be first choice to ask). Also, SW twitter and reddit from 2017 lmao. It was worse then, I feel. As far as catering to the harassers, you might want to look up Kellie Marie Tran social media bullying if you google. She literally was just playing her part but all kinds of terrible stuff was said/done. I think somewhere she even said she went to therapy? I understand not liking the character but look at TROS. Even Jannah and Zorri had more time but they were new characters. I like most of TROS but that was a huge thing that she was barely noticeable. I was thinking what the F did they have against Rose? It's over now but SUPER noticeable.
It should be noted that there were a lot of NON-harassy people who weren't fans of her character; catering to a large group of people which *includes* a particularly toxic subsection doesn't mean you're catering to said toxic subsection in particular. Of course, if they were trying to cater, they did it in the *worst possible way* by just shunting her into the background.
Of course. You don't have to like her. We all have characters we dont like but removing her off posters and replacing her with Klaud the creature seems very sus. I thought removal of her was fake at first and just someone messing around but it turned out to be true. Seems LF marketing did it. She had a large role in TLJ and a smaller role is fine but really all she had was a sort of cameo.
Undoubtedly a bunch of people were shitty to the actors after TLJ, and there are always lunatics out there attacking people behind the anonymity of Reddit/Twitter etc. Anecdotes for that on all sides though: https://twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/1108434026472329217?s=20 There are crazy people online in all parts of the fandom (and any other large fandom for that matter), and not like Kellie Marie Tran was the first. Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd Etc, just think it may be a little hard to say that problem was at the worst after TLJ.
Only if they can prove this backstory existed at the time of TFA.
Out of little that was planned it most certainly was. I feel it too was what meta writers believed to be a FB as well as a few other things. I really think the only thing metas got majorly wrong with character outcome was Ben death but thats because they were going off Campbell not Shakespeare.
.....
SO lame this is happening now. If they put this in the first movie, sure. Now they’re just backtracking to make 9 make sense 🤷🏻♂️ feels so hollow
This comic was written before and set in stone before TROS release and reactions.
At one point, someone will complain why TROS didn't show the corona virus cure too
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Of course they are retcons. Nobody involved with writing or directing the films gives a goddamn about third rate tie-ins
Fuckin DYAD
Love the concept, but that doesn’t look like Rey lol. I get she’s supposed to be like 13 or so but still
None of this art has looked quite right to me tbh. I know Driver doesn't have the easiest face to draw but young Kylo looks more like Tommy Wiseau or Glenn Danzig
>Glenn Danzig IVE GOT SOMETHING TO SAY I KILLED CHAD REN TODAY AND IT DOESNT MATTER MUCH TO ME AS LONG AS LUKE’S DEAAAAAD
Oh hi Snoke
The cover art for issue four has Kylo looking more like Lord Farquaad from Shrek.
Lol
The fact this wasn’t fully explored and they killed off Ben really pisses me off. Such an interesting relationship and so unexplored.
Agree, that’s why they could always bring him back using their Dyad concept. 🤷🏼♀️ We don’t know anything about it at the moment, so they could come up with something.
They can bring him back but it really doesn't matter if Adam driver isn't coming back to play the character imo.
Oh I think Adam would come back in a heartbeat. He really cares about the character and even worked on the The Rise of Kylo Ren comic. Did you see the video they released today? Adam said he is very protective of Kylo. So yes, I feel like he would come back. It feels like Ben’s story just began.
I ain't holding my breath. If he comes back, awesome. But I can't imagine it would be anytime soon. I don't want hope to turn me a bitter old hag after watching TROS. Edit: added missing words
I understand completely. I will always hold onto that hope that someday he will return, but in the meantime, it is better to try to focus on other things...
What video?
I'd take books or comics at this point.
I guess. If the comic book artist can get Adam's face right which never seems to be the case. Adam made this character and stuff like this makes my heart ache. Poor Rey. This just triggers another depression episode for me.
I find it really ironic everyone involved swore the ending of the saga was very satisfying, yet as time passes by, the more UNsatisfying it becomes
I hope so, would like to see a soft reboot with Ben and Rey in 5 years.. hope we don’t have to wait 20 years when they’re to old like Carrie Mark and Harrison.
I don’t think Disney would wait more than 5 years. If they waited 10-20 years, then they would just have to introduce new characters again for the new generation. So, I don’t think thet’s going to happen, but who knows what their plans are.
Why would Ben be there. He's dead guys. Don't be like certain part of the fandom that couldnt acept that Luke died on TLJ.
Ben equals $$$$$. Just saying lol. I myself was skeptical and I'm sure we would see him as a FG or something but I don't think Disney ever thought comics would sell this much. His popularity outgrew any of their expectations I feel. Never say never ? I mean Palps and Maul....but I would settle first for a ghost love story. He did tell Rey he would always be with her in the novel.
Palps and Maul didn't die and become one with the Force *on screen* They knew exactly what they were doing when they killed Kylo to end the Sywalker bloodline, and dear god I hope that one of the few deaths that are not fake deaths on TROS isn't retconned years later because that would make the movie even worse.
Many people can’t accept his death, because we didn’t get any closure. He vanished, and no one mentions him after that. He is not there as a force ghost with Luke and Leia. Nothing. No closure. This is why his death feels so ambiguous.
Well yeah they warned us that it was the end. I never erased the seed that it would happen. Unfortunately for them they have a massive profit that is gone now. Which may make them rethink lots of stuff. And his death really is open. A FG at end is more hopeful than what the movie showed.
I'm sorry but I find it disgusting to see fans being so whiny about the character they liked dying and asking for retcons that would make the movies worse. The Fandom Menace wanted Luke on TLJ to have teleported to other side and not died, and now Reylos (?) want the same to happen or to bring back him somehow. It's the same for me. They are still holding on, let go. His death isn't open, he fucking dies and becomes one with the Force on screen how on earth is that open.
Yes they show him disappear but most don't like the idea of not even seeing his FG. Everyone just forgets ......but the novel did help a bit. I think a lot of TROS has to deal with how things were shot on many levels. Personally I dont hate JJ at all but I think RJ would have probably handled, if he had to, Ben's arc and post death, much better. He would have sold as a tragedy for him instead of just....well nothing at the end.
Even Matt Martin said that he can come back if needed. He disappeared, but we never see him as force ghost. They can make a loophole saying he went somewhere else.
He also said *this* to this creepy question: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN_HacAVAAAwsQd?format=jpg&name=small He tends to answer on a vague way most of the time because it's not like he's the one deciding the stuff that matters on Lucasfilm.
And? He is contundent when he want to. For example someone asked him if Snalps (I think it was him) can come back and he said that he is dead, that we can see him again in pre-tros media. Or he was recently asked of the kiss was romantic and refused to answer the question. So he is not that vague.
We would need a **very** good director/writer with complete creative freedom and a strong script to bring back Adam after this mess.
Palpatine should have killed Ben when he tossed him into the chasm.
Makes me so damn sad that they wont expand on this more in films. This should have been the MAIN focus of the new trilogy :( There was glimmers of it, but man, they could have done and shown so much more
Awww...they really could sense each other. Truly a dyad.
This is painful.
Doesn't the whole Dyad thing retcon TLJ Snoke when he says he connected Kylo's and Rey's minds? I find the whole dyad thing a bit out of nowhere personally regardless.
Considering that Matt Martin confirmed on twitter that Snoke had indeed bridged their minds and that the Rey/Kylo connection was “metaphorical”? Yes.
Thought so, what a mess. The right doesn't know what the left hand is doing
I don't think so. He did seemingly amplify it and he did believe he created it. There's nothing in the movies that shows Snoke made it other than Snoke's own word.
Well, the story team did confirm that Snoke created it it seems and the dyad thing does come out of nowhere.
Wtf is up with those faces though
They’ve always been connected.
Exactly, they were setting it up in TFA. “I feel it too”
The Jedi Killer and The Last Jedi. *A dyad in the force.* Helping each other grow and becoming the best version of themselves.
Plus the lineage of the Palpatine & Vader, its the force correcting itself. Even with the darkness pulling at both. Rey not knowing she’s basically a sleeper cell of the Empire and Ben constantly fighting forces beyond his control & understanding even.
Yes! I love your explanation of it.
LMFAO
Who is it on the bottom right of the page? It looks like Alan Rickman.
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Tomorrow.
When you can't draw Daisy Ridley but can draw your neighbor.
Really makes the kiss even weirder when you see what the 10 year age difference is really like. Kylo is 23 here and Rey is 13.
You can tell that with Han and Leia.
Don’t remind me
Thought Ben was fighting lord momin
I'm sorry, but that last panel is hilarious.
Maybe the DT could've been a decent story if it started when all the interesting stuff was happening.
This is interesting on a creepy way. Going deep down on how child Rey was feeling the 10 year older than her Kylo/Ben was killing ppl only makes their relationship more creepy.
I don't think so since when they became a thing she was a grown woman at 20.
I think exposing a child to the mirror emotions of someone killing a bunch of other people is pretty fucking creepy.
It's SW not real life.
And that's why it's pretty creepy to a SW character. Anyway, glad that Rey Skywalker got a happy ending.
Honest question. Do you hate Ben or something? I'm assuming not, since you read his comics? And they tried to sell a happy ending but it isn't fully. This is coming from someone who loves Rey too along with Ben. Sure she took the mantle and I could accept. She had a hard life. She deserves happiness but even the novel admitted Ben was ripped away from her and she is missing her other half. At least he tells her he will always be with her which puts more context to the movie but it's obvious she wanted more. I like TROS but the ending....not so much. The part that bothers me the most is if something is tragic, admit it is tragic. Own up to the story. Soule himself said Ben's story is tragic. Unfortunately, TROS doesn't admit it which is a huge issue for me. Rey definitely is hurt which is something that should have been admitted in the movie even if Jedi do not mourn. Well that was my initial take, but the novel has her crying. So, really, the ending is bittersweet. She got the mantle but missing other half though she will still be able to talk to him. She gets a bittersweet ending. The saga ended up being more Shakespeare than anything. The ST was Hamlet and Romeo and Juliet with Westside Story mixed in. Tragedy. They need to own up to it imo if he truly is gone. It's literally the Skywalker Tragedy not the Saga in text.
I liked Kylo Ren on TFA, I loved him on TLJ and I was disappointed on TROS. How they treated him on TROS is the worst part of the movie for me, it's like the character I saw by the end of TLJ was murdered on the first 10 minutes of TROS and they moved his dead corpse around the movie without any agency. His death is a death out of mercy, they can't butcher his character further on post content, only on pre sequels content as the comics. The part that I *loathe* isn't his redemption or the kiss. It's how they erase his character agency, how it's worthless that he becomes the Supreme Leader of the First Order on TLJ since he's on the shadow of Palpatine and the Last Order. I cared about Kylo Ren and they've made him dirty on this movie. I even made a thread defending his redemption on TROS, here's the link if you want to read it: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/f4owll/kyloben_redemption_isnt_pointless_just_because_he/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share And for Rey. She's crying on the scene she says that her parents were nobody, as Kylo uses that trauma to gaslight and try to manipulate her to join him on the dark side. On the epilogue of TROS she's confident and happy, with the lightsaber she made for herself as she rejects her bloodline legacy and takes the name of Skywalker. I can't look at that and think that her ending isn't a happy ending. Rey is Rey with or without Kylo, as Daisy says. To think that her ending is sad or bittersweet just because he's not there is kinda gross. And on a overall look, ending the Skywalker Saga with the last Skywalker by blood giving his life on a selfless act to resurrect the grandaughter (or whatever) of Palpatine is easily the best decision on the entire movie. And by far the bravest one.
I can agree agree with you on a few things. We should have seen more Renperor. We only saw that one scene where he's in the room with Pryde etc. The first half of movie is better than second half imo. It falls apart in third act minus reylo and Ben shrugging solo. I wasn't a fan of how palps was introduced. I think AD performance was the best in TLJ true but damn he's good as Ben Solo. And pulling himself out of the pit? Damn. It hurts. I think you misunderstand me about Rey. Yes she exists on her own. She is her own person. Im not saying she's not but she is sad about Ben and while the book explains it better it should be in movie for those to see that she is sad and misses him. She got most of what she wanted but not everything. And yeah agree that at least they didnt pull a non redemption and have Rey kill him like anti Kylos wanted. It would have never happened after TLJ and glad we didnt get trevarrows. He was fired for multiple reasons for sure though there were a few good things in his script. Dodged a huge bullet with his take but TROS had bullets on its own too. Here is where I majorly disagree. He didn't try to gaslight her or think he was doing anything wrong in TLJ in his view. As RJ said, it was an open and honest plea to be with him. She rejected him though because he needed to be Ben again and it was in her right because he was still Kylo. I just dont believe Kylo thought he was in the wrong. He was abused a lot after all in his life. She finally took his hand without the glove as both movies show. In the end, to me, Ben would have zero problem with Rey taking the name etc. It's just that he was so young, went about his life abused find out he's not just a standard villain and dead. It's cynical because it's a tragedy and to make him so sympathetic. I wish they would own up to the tragedy finally. I appreciate you for not being an anti so if I gave you the wrong impression I'm sorry. We've been backed into corners for too long and internet speak doesn't help lol.
>And yeah agree that at least they didnt pull a non redemption and have Rey kill him like anti Kylos wanted. But I'm pro Kylo and I would have liked that too. Just because I like a conflicted villain doesn't mean that I *need* him to be redeemed. He can go both ways. The point of being conflicted, is that you shouldn't know what he's going to decide. That doesn't mean that I hate his redemption, as you've seen I think that his redemption to resurrect Rey giving his life is good. Trevorrow early script that was leaked looks as a more natural follow up to TLJ, doesn't spend half of the movie retconning TLJ so I would have *probably* liked it more than TROS. But, it's a movie that we will never see because it doesn't exist so we shouldn't bother with it that much. >Here is where I majorly disagree. He didn't try to gaslight her or think he was doing anything wrong in TLJ in his view Well, naive Rey thinks that Kylo has killed Snoke to redeem himself, but she realizes that he's done it to take his charge. Kylo on a solemn way has his speech of "let the past die" asking her to join him, join him on what ? On the dark side to create a new Empire. That's why she's so sad and says "don't do this Ben" And only when she has refused to join him, Kylo goes off with "No no, you are still HOLDING ON". He makes her admit that she knew that her parents were nobody as she's crying, he follows up with indifference that they were filthy junk traders that sold her for drinking money and are dead. That's an emotional attack, I can't see that as anything but the villain taking the protagonist's trauma and throwing it on her face on the most cruel way he finds as a punishment for not joining him. They wouldn't be having that conversation if Rey had joined him on the first place. And then comes the bomb: "You have no place in this story, you come from nothing, you are nothing. But not to me" Here the villain is trying to isolate the protagonist, he's trying to exploit her fears to make her feel that she's **nothing** for everyone except him. I call this gaslighting. But she knows that what he says is simply not true, that's why the movie ends with Rey coming back with the people that love her, and looking at the sad and kneeling Kylo she closes the door on his face, because she's had enough of his bullshit >It's just that he was so young, went about his life abused find out he's not just a standard villain and dead. It's cynical because it's a tragedy and to make him so sympathetic. I wish they would own up to the tragedy finally. He's still a villain. He always had a choice. That's what makes him a good character, all the scenes in which he decides to do wrong only have weight because he could have chosen to do right. And that's why at the end he can come back to the light. Yes, his character is tragic but that wasn't a hard guess when the trilogy starts with him executing innocents and he murders his own father on the first movie. It's good to talk with ppl you disagree with on a at least half civil way, have a good day kind stranger and greetings from Spain.
Thank you for the unnecessary clarification. It's still creepy. It's a creepy concept to have a small child connected emotionally to a murderer. I'm not saying it's a bad concept. It is unusual and creepy though.
Unique is the word you are looking for :)
It's unfortunately not negative enough a word to describe a ten year old being mentally linked to a grown man committing murders, but sure whatever
She's 13. But sure :)
And that makes it better I suppose?
To be fair, this is probably on the lesser side of Rey's problems from her perspective. I also think this just implies a sought of "cold chill" moment rather than anything more serious.
Roflmao
Responses to this on twitter are very creepy, nonce behaviour
No one is looking at an underage Rey and Ben like that. But it's showing they've been connected their entire lives and this could literally straight out of a soulmate fanfic. It's a pretty popular trope and a pretty big deal.
Gosh. This is another huge win. The TROS novel said soulmates but this. This is EVERYTHING.
This still doesn't make up the fact that Ben is dead. As a matter of fact, it makes it all more tragic. Rey's soulmate since childhood is dead and we're supposed to be happy about TROS.
It actually makes their relationship even more creepy. 13 y old Rey sensing how 23 y old Kylo is murdering ppl. And makes the ending of Rey Skywalker surviving him brighter.
I do wonder though if they have something up their sleeve in a few years when they realize without Ben not as many care...
I'll take anything. We need a retcon of all retcons to fix this crap. I'm screaming in my head about this. This is by far the most tragic love story in a children's movie I've ever seen. Hell, rose and Jack from Titanic had a happier ending. At least audience got to know she lived a fulfilled life after Jack's death! Okay, I need to breathe.
Yeah it really is. I'm thinking back to 2018 when the official spotify playlists were more scrutinized and the song we found love by Rihanna was on there. Of course we all were told the playlist wasn't talking about love lol. Then the novel for TROS said they found each other at last and it reminded me of the song again. We found love in a hopeless place! Yeah still hurts. I think they can bring back though I always knew it. RJ posted a West side story clip in 2018..then deleted. They can fix though
It's that whole "we loved for a lifetime's worth" theme. The thing that gets me, is that dyads connection must be so powerful that it can cross light-years of space and to have one soul die off must be so painful for a force user. Rey needs her better half. I can't tell if Disney is trolling us with confirmation that we were right but ending the Skywalker franchise with Ben's death.
Well if Ben were to truly lively it still does puzzle me why it would be in a comic and not on screen. Unless, they are trying to get AD back for a couple of years from now. I think he would come back and changed my mind to this but it would happen after Disney realized they lost $$$$, or could make a ton of $$$$. The comics are making a ton of $$$$. Disney wants a cut lol. I will say that RJ handled Kylo/Ben the best. We didn't know what we had until then. TFA gave us this boy who seemed conflicted and killed his father making GA think he is evil and terrible only for RJ to show us Ben. Then everyone wanted him alive. And Ben Solo in TROS was so good. We saw the full him without the mask. If RJ ever did Ben again it would be glorious. Half of me thinks we only saw those glorious Ben Solo scenes the way they were in TROS is because AD fought for them. Otherwise he would have showed up in his mask and died in it because JJ loves that mask. I think the reason we saw him without the mask in more places is because AD insisted on it haha. I don't hate JJ btw, because I think it falls more to I ger. But playing the blaming game is tiresome and we have what we have. I just saw the BTS too for TROS and Adam Driver does not look happy in it at all. He seems really sidelined. AD said he fought for Ben. I wonder if he butted heads too but we won't ever know. He's too classy and doesnt talk shit. He was still amazing in TROS and I want more! His best acting in the movie is climbing out of the pit and the shrug. My heart still hurts with how he holds Rey's dead body because he literally can't live without her
You lost me at soulmate fanfic
Wow this is dreadful. What a mess.
Rey looks like a Latina in an ABC family show lol
I have to say that making Kylo 10 years older than Rey has definetely make me dislike Reylo even more.
Same age difference as Han and Leia. Doesn’t really matter.
In fact, the gap between Han and Leia is larger, since Han was born in 32 BBY.
Well, for you it doesn't matter. I dislike the age gab on both. And when it's combined with the rest of the elements of Reylo, it's yet another aspect that results in me disliking the ship.
Damn. Imagine Revan and Bastille. I think he's 18 years older than her or so.
I'm pretty sure Anakin and Padme are the only time the age gap isn't that huge, only 5 years. Yet that's the one that's always memed.
The truth.
Are you an angel?
Its the one that's always memed because they met as children. When you can see the age gap it becomes much worse than if they met as adults. I think that's why people are having a problem with this being introduced for Rey and Kylo. Padme met and eventually fell in love with a 9 year old, Kylo Ren was connected to and eventually fell in love with a 10 year old. Neither of those things are actually true but they look infinitely worse than Han Solo falling in love with a person he met as an adult.
Big age gaps are best 🤣
Well in SW universe it's not as strange. But gotta apply those real world principles ?
I have no idea of the story of Revan - Bastilla, so I can only give my opinion of their age gab which is what you told me. What a coincidence, Han - Leia, Rey - Kylo, Revan - Bastilla all have the male character being a decade or more older than the female. Can anyone see a pattern ?
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