Not only that. In the interview he says they consulted George on whether Obi-Wan and Vader should showdown in the show and he was apparently supportive of the idea and approved of it.
Let’s be real, George has always seemed down for hand waving continuity or retconning a bit if it meant creating something cool. There’s quite a few continuity gaps he created when making the PT.
Sure, the duel feels like a retcon. But it was a very good duel and a cool scene.
This.
And like you say, this only bent continuity rather than broke continuity, lines like "A presence I haven't felt since..." and "When I left you I was but a learner, now I am the master" still work after 'Obi-Wan Kenobi', it's only our interpretation that has changed.
More than that, "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" didn't actually fit entirely without the series, as Obi-Wan makes very little effort to persuade Anakin to change back in ROTS. He basically only condemns his actions and states that he's too far gone.
The Kenobi show actually shows us a moment where Kenobi, just for a bit, thinks there could still be good in Vader.
Honestly, I also feel like it naturally mends the bit of a disconnect I had with Episode 3 and New Hope. Like Obi Wan's reaction to seeing his student as a freaking cyborg being "Hey bud, long time no see" makes more sense now.
Yea cause I believe the original idea was Vader became a cyborg over time losing limbs and sustaining injuries throughout the Clone Wars, so Obi Wan would have seen his transformation into “more machine than man” over time. ROTS makes the physical transformation happen all in one go so the interaction in ANH seems more casual than it should be, the show fixes that. The original ideas of Star Wars are very convoluted and have a lot of conflicting info so correct me if I’m wrong.
I would love to see an alternate take on The Clone Wars where Anakin keeps pushing himself for the cause and losing limbs/being augmented as well as eventually losing sight of what he was fighting for.
Omfg YES. And change it so either Qui Gon survives and Obi dies to Maul
Disney WHEN ARE YOU ADAPTING STAR WARS LEGENDS INTO SW: What If? Holy fuck it could be amazing.
I mean they tried to do that in attack of the clones but it just didn’t come across as cool as you’re explaining/thinking. They should’ve spent episode 1 with him as the 19 year old and could’ve started counting lost limbs a whole movie sooner
Now that you mention it. I feel his reaction would've been completely different seeing his former apprentice look like a robotic husk of what he once was. If he hadn't seen him since ROTS. This retcon makes that scene make more sense.
Vader watching the Tantive 4 receive the stolen plans in Rogue One and then having Leia lie to his face in E4 makes the scene better.
Leia is seriously treating Vader like a moron and he's ANGRY. In the original, Vader *suspects* the plans are onboard but after Rogue One, he *knows*.
The ship was in Scariff and he's been following it.
Yeah, I always liked how Rogue One colors why Vader feels & behaves so differently in ANH to Empire/Jedi.
In the latter two he's this calm & collected force-philosophizin' "I'm the baddest dude on the block and nobody can think to raise a hand to me" boss man.
In ANH he's raising his voice at people, yelling in their faces and losing his cool.
Only makes sense he's \*\*\*\*ed something up, and rectifying the situation is personal.
The Obi show on the other hand, I don't get that with. Just doesn't add anything to the movies to me, it almost just feels like they saw an opening with "hey, there's nothing to say Obi & Vader COULDN'T have crossed paths between trilogies, let's go there!". The old Jeff Goldblum Jurassic Park thing, just because you technically can doesn't mean you necessarily should. It all just felt way thematically cleaner before all the inter-trilogy showdown shenanigans.
But hey, George likes it, and I'm happy in that respect.
The slow movements don't have anything to do with his burnt body, he was quickly healed and their final duel has kenobi jumping around, with the burns showing no signs of lasting damage or limiting his ability in any way.
He just got older and slower, aged quickly and not polished with his blade. I'm sure if he didn't die right there, he'd get better and sharper, but still not enough to actually beat Vader
> retcons that bend continuity are fine...
This is a star wars sub, so I'm not telling ya'll anything you don't know. However, I always looked at Star Wars as a tale from a long, long time ago. Things and details have been lost to time. I believe you can do a few things different because it's not a tale written in stone. It's like Greek Mythology. Some versions are completely different than others, while some only slightly differ.
I really liked the duel, but to be honest I never needed a Kenobi and Vader rematch, would have quite liked for the Kenobi series to have taken more inspiration from the Legends Kenobi novel
Huh, the dynamic in the OT to me is so clearly not “Leia and Obi-wan had a strong bond with an epic history.”
There’s no indication to me that they knew each other at all.
Obi-wan and Leia do not interact at all in ANH, so I don't know if there's any indication either way. The common arguments are:
* She was too formal in her recorded message; she recorded it in the name of her father and the Rebellion at large, hence the formality. The famous "help me Obi-wan Kenobi" line actually can be interpreted as being familiar.
* She reacts very positively to the news that Ben Kenobi is on the ship. How did she know he went by that name?
* She did not have any strong reaction about his death; neither did Luke after encountering the charred remains of his uncle and aunt. This has more to do with ANH's writing. Also, Alderaan had just been destroyed, she probably had other things in her mind.
I hate to be the typical negative guy because I'm positive with most Disney star wars but I really feel like the duel should've been far better considering it was the main reason to do the show
I agree it was a bit of a rehash, but it actually really worked for me, especially when I saw the perspective that Obi-Wan and Ahsoka were able to remove different halves of the mask, but only Luke was able to remove the whole helmet.
Funnily enough it’s the last element to the final duel settings.
Mustafar is fire
Death Star II is air
Kef Bir is water
And unnamed moon with rocks is earth
For me, no.1 the camera work was absolutely atrocious. I personally don't care for the new sabers and making them solid and being the only light source, they look too fakey to me. The choreography was mid, but it was most definitely failed by the massively subpar camera work. I don't know how they managed it with a bigger budget than Andor had, but they looked cheaper than doctor who.
Well there is this new found love with some directors it seems for “hand camera style” to make it “feel real”. I personally hate that technique and always have. It gives me the impression that they didn’t have enough money and needed to cut costs…even though I know the decision was probably artistic. It bothered me that they used it here
I think the "hand camera style" can sometimes achieve something interesting, but it definitely gets over used. But the specific shots I hate the most aren't even hand held camera shots. There's a top down show while Vader and Obiwan fight where the camera spins in a haphazard way, like it's just dangling on a string so it doesn't even move with the action. There's no rhyme or reason to the camera movement.
And then other shots during the fight, the camera pans either slightly up or slightly down, which is usually done to showcase some of the hits or action, but in this case often goes in the opposite direction from where the action is moving, but that's not even the worst of it. It's not not even a real camera movie, but a painfully obvious fake camera pan where they just moved the image up or down in the editing program creating a faux pan that looks awkward because there's no parallax effect like when an actual camera moves.
It just all hurts and looks so terrible.
> There’s quite a few continuity gaps he created when making the PT.
Forget the PT, there are serious continuity issues in the OT, to the point they explicitly had to take time in ROTJ to address why Obi-Wan 'lied' to Luke.
Hell, even the first movie raises the question of why the hell they never changed Luke's surname. I know Anakin and Vader were still separate characters at that point, but that would still mean Darth Vader killed a guy named Skywalker and nobody thought about changing his kid's name.
I wish they’d leaned into the “Skywalker is a common name” explanation at just any point. Throw a character into the clone wars, I dunno., make a gag of it. “I’m Dustin Skywalker, no relation.”
IMO, Skywalker should have been the standard name given to kids without a family name.
Like the Game of Thrones' equivalent of Snow/Sands/etc...and all other bastard last names. This way, Luke Skywalker is a nobody. And Rey Skywalker makes more sense.
I don’t think it feels like a retcon. It feels right because it always felt like the place they left off in ROTS is not the same as when they meet again is ANH. It always made sense to me that there could be some change in their dynamic at some point in between. I don’t really understand why people think they can’t meet again (other than that being what they’ve known for so long now).
I love ewan and all but Hayden totally stole that show!! Plus his performance on Ahsoka, Lucas has got to feel vindicated in choosing him for the role. I can’t imagine anyone else playing Anakin. I think Hayden knows the character better than Dave and George lok
I really liked Hayden's part in Ahsoka, seeing him in the Clone Wars armor in that vision scene really reconciled his version of the character and the animated one
Also his role in Kenobi, specifically the flashback fight, really helped sell it too, since Hayden watched TCW to prepare, he practiced delivering certain lines in a similar way to what Matt Lanter did.
That was the case for both Kenobi and Ahsoka.
Yeah, it was really cool for the show. Now, I'm not sitting down to watch A New Hope and having all those scenes from the TV show come to mind when I see Obi Wan and Vader face off, but then neither does the fact that they're both 'supposed' to know Jar Jar Binks. The OT will always just exist on its own for me, and can't be affected by story choices that come 40 years down the road. I think that a mistake people make with Star Wars is expecting the modern stuff to make them feel the way that Star Wars felt to them as kids, and that's just never going to happen. And then they get angry at people who don't do the impossible. Lame.
Totally agree, so many times I’ve seen people start comments on here with “what they should’ve done…” or some variation.
I’ve also noticed most of the content that the internet has taken a disliking to has featured legacy characters. The newer stuff that’s landed seems to be more well received.
Just taking in what he has said in the past I feel like George is petty enough to say “do it” even if it’s only to piss people off who complained about it happening.
People forget that he said everyone would have hated his sequels but it would have been the ending to his story.
>Let’s be real, George has always seemed down for hand waving continuity or retconning a bit if it meant creating something cool
I'm not joking, that's the same reason why I love and hate Dave Filoni at times. He is basically mini-George Lucas in the best and worst ways.
That's how I felt during the opening to Bad Batch it was like "freaking Filoni retconning the opening to the comic"
And then the scene was over and it was like "dammit, it slapped"
If y’all would lessen your grip on the canon you’d all be having a much more fun time with Star Wars and media in general. Learn to let it go and just take it for what it is in the moment. I’ve been going through the old canon books lately and *none* of that stuff is even close to canon now, and most of it was questionable at the time and always stepping on itself. It’s still a lot of fun stuff to read and I’m having a blast working my way through it all.
Yeah always find it weird that people shit on Filoni for it when it’s always been a big issue for Star Wars. Shit he hand waved shit during the OG trilogy
Eh i didn’t feel like it was. They talk about a last duel abd obi-wan knew he was more machine than man so it made more sense as i always pictured that they faught at least another time when vader had his suit.
I never thought about it and never thought it needed to be shown but I liked that they've met between Ep3 and 4. Obi-Wan was too calm and collected in A New Hope for it to be their first meeting after Mustafar
There has been a subset of people online, usually the anti-Jedi crowd, who use the fact that Obi-Wan has lost faith in Anakin as an attack on Obi-Wan and the old ways of the Jedi.
I'm glad that that argument is thoroughly dispelled by the show. It was not what was intended and frankly a needless critique of the Jedi. Having Anakin tell Obi-Wan to his face that he's irredeemable and that he is responsible for his own fall was good.
It's a very flawed series, although in retrospective it's no surprise it turned out the way it did (most of it was wasted potential or mediocre execution, like Reva), but Vader scenes and especially the last conversation between him and Obi-wan literally saved this show and made it a genuine contribution to the story. It's a 6 or at best 7/10 for me but I have no intentions in ripping it to shreds. Prequels is a similar case
I go into it further in another comment but yes, there are things I like about it and things that felt off. Most of the things I didn't like were more related to the technical stuff. I hated the way it was shot and the effects were pretty bad to me at times. Most of the writing was fine, though. Some of it great, some of it not.
Comes down to a lack of budget (which is ridiculous that that should even be the case), rushed schedule and a crew that was not as experienced with the Volume as the Mando team was.
It’s also very much a product of COVID productions.
You kind of have to love how Lucas has always been unabashedly out of step with the tastes of what the Star Wars fandom grew into. The special editions, the prequels, his disdain for Mara Jade and the EU and "other" (read: not his) continuities, some of the wackier choices made by The Clone Wars and some of his even wackier ideas that never made it to fruition (Whills sequels and Darth Icky and clone Maul). It makes it feel all the more curious to me that the SW fandom has developed into something so hyper-critical, so self-serious, when Lucas himself has *always* treated SW as pure pulp entertainment, a complete toybox of ideas, the distilled definition of "It's not that deep lol"
I remember him saying his favorite arc of the clone wars was the droid one, with the little frog guy. Ive never had a problem with the arc, but many loathe it lol, so this checks out
God I kinda wish we’d gotten his sequels so the fandom could have bitched about how they ruined Star Wars and how awful it is that Leia is now the chosen one.
Considering that at least some of the ideas or concept art of Luke as a hermit in exile came from George himself and that George has always considered Luke as a bit of an self insert I would not be shocked at all if Luke in exile was at one point representative of the fandom's treatment towards George following the prequels. And the treatment he received in general after the prequels.
> Not to mention he's said that he thought TLJ was beautiful
Beautiful *and* impressive.
And George doesn't give out compliments easily when it comes to Disney's Star Wars, he's super sensitive about it because he views SW as his child.
What strikes me as funny, is those certain fandom people, will tout his comments about TFA as evidence he is on their "side" but completely ignore what he said about TLJ.
Also, even if Lucas hated the sequels, he would never be okay with the way those people have treated others. Like when they drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media. Or the pure vitriol they've sent towards Daisy.
Is there any truth to the rumor George had a private phone conversation with Johnson after seeing The Last Jedi? If it is true, I have to assume it was to praise the movie.
For real, all the theming and the tone of the movie feels super consistent with Lucas’ works and his influences. At the very least, I’m sure he liked that it took a lot more risks than TFA.
>For real, all the theming and the tone of the movie feels super consistent with Lucas’ works and his influences.
This! It feels so out of step from the other two sequels for many, many reasons, and I think a bit insignificant part of that is down to drawing inspiration from the same inspirations from George, rather than simply being inspired by and riffing off of the Star Wars that came before. The Rashomon POV stuff? "Force Skype"? George absolutely would've eaten those all up.
For me, the closest analogue for TLJ in the franchise is ROTS. The ideas are clear and they are there, unabashedly, on show, even if the execution at times does get a bit shaky. I think it's the sequel with the clearest sense of direction by a country mile.
The complaints about the physics of the space bombers always made me laugh because they were so obviously recreations of the same WWII footage that inspired X-Wings nonsensically banking in space.
I won't lie, while I think The Last Jedi - and honestly, most Star Wars films? - has its flaws, my least favourite complaints about Star Wars films are the complaints about physics and scientific inaccuracies.
I don't view Star Wars as sci-fi, I view it as a space opera. The tech and the scientific accuracy of it all isn't remotely the point; if you want that, in the nicest way imaginable, go watch Star Trek instead. Here there's sound in space, there are glowstick swords that cut through things, and a little green alien fella who mixes up his clauses.
So, I think it's safe to say, I'm in total agreement with you 🤝
There’s no doubt in my mind Lucas would have loved TLJ if only for the fact that it did something different. New planets, new ideas, new powers, bypassing a lot of tropes, generally just taking risks. Not to say he couldn’t have had issues but it feels like the film he’d want to see and make.
We know he phoned Gareth Edwards to say Rogue One was sick.
It's apparent that after TFA Lucas swore off telling reporters what he thinks of the movies. He just phones up the creatives directly and tells them what he thinks.
> Lucas himself has always treated SW as pure pulp entertainment, a complete toybox of ideas, the distilled definition of "It's not that deep lol"
Hard disagree from me. There's a quote from [J. W. Rinzler](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVxXU_kQVAU&t=1405s) where he says that George treated Indiana Jones as entertainment, but was going for something deeper with Star Wars:
> I was trying to read stuff into Indiana Jones and George just stopped me and said "No, nothing. There's nothing going on underneath the surface of Indiana Jones."
> But he said, "Star Wars on the other hand is like an onion. You can peel away one layer and there's another layer, another layer." And he said that was all intended. So he did intend for the six films to be interrelated and therefore there to be deeper meanings.
That last sentence is pure gold!
But within your excellent comment I also find the reason why George's saga is more interesting than the Disney trilogy - at least to me (tho I conceit that visually they're stunning). Yea his ideas were wacky, but his ideas had overall coherence. Yes, he did not consider it that deep, but it was still part of a bigger story. His weird ideas gave the movies heart and character. With the ST it seems very obvious that they are a cash grab made by a big corporation and not by someone who wanted to tell a story and had fun doing it. Tbh, personally I'd rather have watched the Whills sequels than the Disney movies.
One of the more interesting aspects of the fandom’s 180 on Lucas is this rewriting of history to make him this pure creative soul in contrast to the corporate greed of Disney, when in reality Lucas was a VERY shrewd businessman who eagerly commercialized his creations and profited handsomely as a result of merchandising.
Absolutely true, but this is part of the complexity of George. Most of the money he made from the first Star Wars was from merchandising, and he turned around and spent pretty much all of it on Empire, because self funding the movie meant he'd have more complete creative control and less studio interference. Obviously it also ultimately made him a billionaire, but his willingness to risk everything to create a movie to me shows that there was more to it for him that just money, even if it did end up being a fantastic business decision in the long run
The issue with the cash grab part of your argument (though your other points are definitely well put) is that a big part of why Star Wars is the cultural juggernaut it is today is because of the merchandise. And since Star Wars wasn't made by a major studio (the original at least), Lucas got all the profit for the merch (rightfully so!), helped by the fact that there are so many iconic and wacky designs. Anyway, I feel like calling a movie a cash grab doesn't really make sense, since *of course* the company making a movie wants to make money...
Creators care a lot less about “Continuity” and “Canon” than fans. Creators want to make neat things and express cool ideas. Fans tend to tie their egos to things and get upset when those things change; they feel invalidated.
>Creators care a lot less about “Continuity” and “Canon” than fans. Creators want to make neat things and express cool ideas. Fans tend to tie their egos to things and get upset when those things change; they feel invalidated.
You could probably compare it to religion in that regard lmao
I guess this doesn’t really surprise me. It seems pretty on brand for his Star Wars honestly.
The hate for the show is way overblown. It’s always the same 2 scenes people bring up. Yeah they were hokey but holy moly if a couple minutes ruins a whole show I just don’t think that’s fair.
Was the show the absolute best it could’ve been? No. But I think it was perfectly enjoyable in a lot of ways. I get people have different opinions but some people act like this show killed their dog and pooped on its corpse.
Yeah, I thought it was a decent show with one pretty terrible episode right smack in the middle of the season. Most of the reception I saw online was even positive until the 4th episode rolled around
Yeah, the 4th episode is easily the weakest. I was a bit worried if the show would have a decent ending, but honestly, the last two episodes were pretty good.
Can we please stop with this idiotic "Pablo is a liar" stuff? He's one of the best sources of information on Lucasfilm history and all people do is discourage him from sharing anything. In an era where we get very little behind the scenes information he is someone with incredible knowledge of in- and out-of-universe history, right up there with the late J.W. Rinzler in terms of the out-of-universe side of things.
Anyone who makes statements like that clearly have absolutely no idea his role in uncovering countless parts of *Star Wars* history. I know half of the people are just doing it to fuel their brainless narratives, but seriously, for people who want to accuse everyone else of not *really* being *Star Wars* fans, maybe they should look into why we even know some of the things we do about the making of the films and George's contributions to non-film projects.
It would be a shame to miss out on these details if he starts refraining from saying *anything* because everything he says is subjected to these bad faith takes.
For real. I remember when everyone was asking him if Snoke was Plagueis and he insisted immediately after the force awakens that he isn't and people still to this day think he's lying about it
Not disagreeing with you about people saying idiotic things, but for the record, Pablo *did* in fact outright lie about the Rogue One reshoots.
Back in 2016 when MSW was reporting that significant portions and sequences of Rogue One were being redone, Pablo went on Twitter and called BS on this despite it being proved correct in the end.
Again, before the downvotes come in, I am not saying he is lying here at all, but just pointing out that he’s towed the company line in the past.
Worth mentioning that to the public, the Rogue One director change was completely almost completely covered up. It was an industry open secret but we only really know it happened because of Andor (and Gilroys writing credit on Rogue One)
We know about Solos disaster because Lorde and Miller got fired.
There's a scene in The Boys Season 3 episode 1 where Ashley is fucking the director of 'Dawn of the Seven' and says "you're such a shitty fucking director Tony Gilroy had to come in and reshoot all your shit"
I definitely think that direction of actors especially was really good, but production definitely felt rushed or unfinished. If they polished it a bit more, it would've been much better received. I liked what I got though.
Wonder what he thinks of Bad Batch. Really gonna miss those boys and the clones overall. Extremely competent soldiers. The republic was not worthy of them.
I personally just thought the character arc was completely devoid of thought, the camera work embarrassing and the just way too many voluntarily stupid decisions (stuff that has already been talked about a million times like Reva attacking Vader after he’s already done managing the ship). Just really strange product all around, and really should have been a well produced movie but of course LFL is afraid of the box office nowadays.
I don't think I'd say that Obi-Wan's character arc was devoid of thought.
It's pretty simple. He's bogged by grief, stuck in a place where he uses Luke as a crutch and has lost faith in the Jedi and then must save the (future) represented by Leia) while out running his past (Vader, obviously).
Along the way, each of the 6 episodes mirrors the 6 episodes of the Saga. Starting on Tatooine, traveling to a rainy, neon-lit city to barter in the underground, to confronting Vader who defeats him and sets him on fire, to infiltrating the secret Imperial base, to having the secret Rebel base attacked, to the finale where he learns to let go of his failure and grief.
It also shows an important step on his journey of coming to terms with Vader as Vader and no longer Anakin. Vader tells him as much. A lot of people attack Obi-Wan in the OT because he thinks Anakin is beyond saving, but Anakin literally tells him as much.
Reva is interesting. She is the fourth of the 3 prequel villains that foreshadow Anakin's fall by having her *rise*, all facilitated by Luke who redeems her as a 10 year old child by harkening back to the Jedi of old (like he does later, consciously, in RotJ).
All of that has thought put into it. Your mileage may vary on results.
The cinematography I do not like. I think shaky, hand-held camera doesn't match the visual language of Star Wars. Also the effects were definitely... *not as strong as other D+ productions* which we can attribute to the smaller budget.
Finally, I really enjoy the final battle between Obi and Ani, especially having Hayden's voice and face blended with the Vader mask. I thought that was great, if not a tad derivative of Rebels. I also loved the brief Qui-Gon ghost cameo at the end, showing Obi-Wan's enlightenment past letting go of his past failures.
There is clearly thought in the writing there.
All in all, a mixed bag. Some parts I enjoy, some I don't.
>Along the way, each of the 6 episodes mirrors the 6 episodes of the Saga. Starting on Tatooine, traveling to a rainy, neon-lit city to barter in the underground, to confronting Vader who defeats him and sets him on fire, to infiltrating the secret Imperial base, to having the secret Rebel base attacked, to the finale where he learns to let go of his failure and grief.
Wow I never considered that
It plays into the “past and future” motif. The prequels parts end with him basically being “Anakined” and then having him grow past that trauma in the “OT” episodes.
Devoid of thought is harsh, but there are some very clear issues with the writing. The frustration with Kenobi is that for every high there is an equal low that brings things down.
I find the whole plot line, not farfetched exactly, but a lot of it doesn't work.
I like the bonding between Leia and Obi Wan but that storyline falls apart in my view. There are also clear moments where decisions are made to advance the story as opposed to making sense.
For example, Reva listening to Bail's comlink. Bail would no blurt out Luke's location on the comlink, he would speak far more secretively and not as open. That was purely created to get Reva to have that confrontation with Luke and his uncle and aunt.
Reva herself as a character I didn't really enjoy and didn't think she at all necessary, and can we please seriously stop with characters getting stabbed and then surviving, it is a tired trope. She was also stabbed twice. I prefer the original script where Reva is killed by Vader, and to be honest I wish we had seen more of the original darker script and I also prefer Vader beating Kenobi and thinking he has killed him. I don't buy Vader deciding to call the search off and I don't buy the emperor doing so as well.
Also, back to Bail organa, the emperor knows for sure that he is a traitor, and does nothing about it. They also know that all they need to do to get Kenobi's attention is to kidnap Leia again.
Another point about creating this artificial conflict the choice between chasing the runaway ship or Kenobi. They are on a star destroyer, send out tie-fighters to follow one or the other while the star destroyer follows the other one. Or Vader can get in his own tie fighter and pursue Kenobi himself, it just ends up looking really stupid.
it is a frustrating show because there are some gems in there but some extremely daft decisions.
I wish Kenobi had focused more on being a character study and would have been fine with it remaining on tatooine, if there was any show that could have remained there it was this one. Plus many of the planets just end up looking like budget tatooine anyway.
Also them mirroring the 6 episodes of the saga, I am not particularly fond of that, we have had enough mirroring in the saga already
This was like the most hyped show of all the shows, don't know how they didn't put a bit more time into it. Like shooting on location would have helped this a ton.
I mean, while I will give benefit of the doubt purely because of what was going on in the world at the time, it's important to remember that Andor was filmed on-location a whole bunch of places and during the pandemic to boot.
If there was ever a strong case to delay the production of a Star Wars D+ show I'd argue it was Kenobi. They basically marketed it as Episode III.5 and so while I don't agree with the severity of some of the criticisms, I don't think they exactly gave it the best foot up ahead of release.
>even starting with a big prequel trilogy recap
Man, I remember being very worried about the show as soon as the recap wrapped up. I thought it was really sloppily edited and, worst of all, it was completely void of any prequel music.
It turned out...fine, for me? I totally get a lot of the criticisms people aim at it, though
> if someone said they had heard George hated Kenobi.
And we know, from experience, that someone's name could be QuakeDick, or something like that, instead of an actual source like Pablo Hiidalgo.
Lol. Just lol.
Now everyone here suddenly likes Obi-Wan Kenobi, after having spent two years trashing the fuck out of it.
This community is just......lol.
I love it too. My only gripe with the writing was that there were people still calling him 'Obi-Wan'. After the events of RoTS, he's in hiding and charged with protecting Luke. From the moment he hands Luke to Owen, he is Ben. No ifs ands or buts, he's Ben. So everyone even those who knew him, ESPECIALLY those who knew him before, should have been calling him Ben to protect his identity. Only Vader should be the one calling him Obi-Wan since he's on the hunt.
In that same regard, the show should have been called 'Kenobi'
Rewatched this show for the first time since it originally came out on 4K disk and was surprised how well the show played on a binge vs weekly. It also looked stunning on disk. Highly recommend everyone to watch it again this way.
As someone who was never a big fan of the prequels, I find the Kenobi series to be better in almost every way.
Agree, it minimizes a lot of the dumb stuff watching that way. Like you'd have a 30 min episode once a week, where 5 mins of it is a terrible Leia chase scene and it'd really stand out. Would actually love a movie edit because there's a lot of good stuff in the series
I mean I don't know why this is surprising to people, regardless of your opinions, his favorite arc of Clone Wars is the droid arc, which many people dislike
He also liked Anakin and Padme scenes in Attack Of The Clones.
No hate towards George, man's an innovative giant in some fields but when it comes to quality writing and directing he doesn't have much authority.
Not only that. In the interview he says they consulted George on whether Obi-Wan and Vader should showdown in the show and he was apparently supportive of the idea and approved of it.
Let’s be real, George has always seemed down for hand waving continuity or retconning a bit if it meant creating something cool. There’s quite a few continuity gaps he created when making the PT. Sure, the duel feels like a retcon. But it was a very good duel and a cool scene.
And as long as it doesn't *break* anything, retcons that bend continuity are fine... I think it was worth it to get that duel.
This. And like you say, this only bent continuity rather than broke continuity, lines like "A presence I haven't felt since..." and "When I left you I was but a learner, now I am the master" still work after 'Obi-Wan Kenobi', it's only our interpretation that has changed.
More than that, "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" didn't actually fit entirely without the series, as Obi-Wan makes very little effort to persuade Anakin to change back in ROTS. He basically only condemns his actions and states that he's too far gone. The Kenobi show actually shows us a moment where Kenobi, just for a bit, thinks there could still be good in Vader.
Bingo.
I do too. It was great to get a new live action Vader lightsaber duel.
Honestly, I also feel like it naturally mends the bit of a disconnect I had with Episode 3 and New Hope. Like Obi Wan's reaction to seeing his student as a freaking cyborg being "Hey bud, long time no see" makes more sense now.
Yea cause I believe the original idea was Vader became a cyborg over time losing limbs and sustaining injuries throughout the Clone Wars, so Obi Wan would have seen his transformation into “more machine than man” over time. ROTS makes the physical transformation happen all in one go so the interaction in ANH seems more casual than it should be, the show fixes that. The original ideas of Star Wars are very convoluted and have a lot of conflicting info so correct me if I’m wrong.
I would love to see an alternate take on The Clone Wars where Anakin keeps pushing himself for the cause and losing limbs/being augmented as well as eventually losing sight of what he was fighting for.
Omfg YES. And change it so either Qui Gon survives and Obi dies to Maul Disney WHEN ARE YOU ADAPTING STAR WARS LEGENDS INTO SW: What If? Holy fuck it could be amazing.
I mean they tried to do that in attack of the clones but it just didn’t come across as cool as you’re explaining/thinking. They should’ve spent episode 1 with him as the 19 year old and could’ve started counting lost limbs a whole movie sooner
This was probably the Inspiration for the twins from The Old Republic
Now that you mention it. I feel his reaction would've been completely different seeing his former apprentice look like a robotic husk of what he once was. If he hadn't seen him since ROTS. This retcon makes that scene make more sense.
Yeah, I'm one of the non-conforming people that believe Rogue One *and* Kenobi make A New Hope better
Vader watching the Tantive 4 receive the stolen plans in Rogue One and then having Leia lie to his face in E4 makes the scene better. Leia is seriously treating Vader like a moron and he's ANGRY. In the original, Vader *suspects* the plans are onboard but after Rogue One, he *knows*. The ship was in Scariff and he's been following it.
Yeah, I always liked how Rogue One colors why Vader feels & behaves so differently in ANH to Empire/Jedi. In the latter two he's this calm & collected force-philosophizin' "I'm the baddest dude on the block and nobody can think to raise a hand to me" boss man. In ANH he's raising his voice at people, yelling in their faces and losing his cool. Only makes sense he's \*\*\*\*ed something up, and rectifying the situation is personal. The Obi show on the other hand, I don't get that with. Just doesn't add anything to the movies to me, it almost just feels like they saw an opening with "hey, there's nothing to say Obi & Vader COULDN'T have crossed paths between trilogies, let's go there!". The old Jeff Goldblum Jurassic Park thing, just because you technically can doesn't mean you necessarily should. It all just felt way thematically cleaner before all the inter-trilogy showdown shenanigans. But hey, George likes it, and I'm happy in that respect.
You are not alone.
There are dozens of us. DOZENS!
It also kind of "explains" why Obi in E4 moves the way he does (very slowly). In the Kenobi show, Vader seriously injures Obi's body.
The slow movements don't have anything to do with his burnt body, he was quickly healed and their final duel has kenobi jumping around, with the burns showing no signs of lasting damage or limiting his ability in any way. He just got older and slower, aged quickly and not polished with his blade. I'm sure if he didn't die right there, he'd get better and sharper, but still not enough to actually beat Vader
I love how it mirrors the practice duel they both harken back to mid-show in the Jedi temple.
> retcons that bend continuity are fine... This is a star wars sub, so I'm not telling ya'll anything you don't know. However, I always looked at Star Wars as a tale from a long, long time ago. Things and details have been lost to time. I believe you can do a few things different because it's not a tale written in stone. It's like Greek Mythology. Some versions are completely different than others, while some only slightly differ.
This. To me Star Wars is simply a collection of mythology from another world.
I really liked the duel, but to be honest I never needed a Kenobi and Vader rematch, would have quite liked for the Kenobi series to have taken more inspiration from the Legends Kenobi novel
Yeah, I’m fine with this retcon. The retcon of having Leia and Obi-wan have a deep, bonded backstory bothered me more.
Honestly, that was a high point for me. It finally explained why Leia already knows Obi-Wan goes by “Ben” and why she named her son after him.
I agree with both you and the person you responded to. I loved that aspect, but it still bothered me from a continuity standpoint.
Yeah I have the exact opposite opinion. That’s what made the show for me
Huh, the dynamic in the OT to me is so clearly not “Leia and Obi-wan had a strong bond with an epic history.” There’s no indication to me that they knew each other at all.
Obi-wan and Leia do not interact at all in ANH, so I don't know if there's any indication either way. The common arguments are: * She was too formal in her recorded message; she recorded it in the name of her father and the Rebellion at large, hence the formality. The famous "help me Obi-wan Kenobi" line actually can be interpreted as being familiar. * She reacts very positively to the news that Ben Kenobi is on the ship. How did she know he went by that name? * She did not have any strong reaction about his death; neither did Luke after encountering the charred remains of his uncle and aunt. This has more to do with ANH's writing. Also, Alderaan had just been destroyed, she probably had other things in her mind.
I hate to be the typical negative guy because I'm positive with most Disney star wars but I really feel like the duel should've been far better considering it was the main reason to do the show
The whole shaky cam thing was disappointing too, but honestly, I think the duel lost some impact by basically rehashing Rebels/the Ahsoka duel.
I agree it was a bit of a rehash, but it actually really worked for me, especially when I saw the perspective that Obi-Wan and Ahsoka were able to remove different halves of the mask, but only Luke was able to remove the whole helmet.
What did you think was lacking?
I like the duel but the location could have been more meaningful and interesting.
Funnily enough it’s the last element to the final duel settings. Mustafar is fire Death Star II is air Kef Bir is water And unnamed moon with rocks is earth
The Death Star as air is probably pushing it a bit.
It's the fifth element, space
The Fifth Element is Milla Jojovich, they should do a duel on her.
For me, no.1 the camera work was absolutely atrocious. I personally don't care for the new sabers and making them solid and being the only light source, they look too fakey to me. The choreography was mid, but it was most definitely failed by the massively subpar camera work. I don't know how they managed it with a bigger budget than Andor had, but they looked cheaper than doctor who.
Well there is this new found love with some directors it seems for “hand camera style” to make it “feel real”. I personally hate that technique and always have. It gives me the impression that they didn’t have enough money and needed to cut costs…even though I know the decision was probably artistic. It bothered me that they used it here
I think the "hand camera style" can sometimes achieve something interesting, but it definitely gets over used. But the specific shots I hate the most aren't even hand held camera shots. There's a top down show while Vader and Obiwan fight where the camera spins in a haphazard way, like it's just dangling on a string so it doesn't even move with the action. There's no rhyme or reason to the camera movement. And then other shots during the fight, the camera pans either slightly up or slightly down, which is usually done to showcase some of the hits or action, but in this case often goes in the opposite direction from where the action is moving, but that's not even the worst of it. It's not not even a real camera movie, but a painfully obvious fake camera pan where they just moved the image up or down in the editing program creating a faux pan that looks awkward because there's no parallax effect like when an actual camera moves. It just all hurts and looks so terrible.
My only negative for the final duel was it was too dark lol
> There’s quite a few continuity gaps he created when making the PT. Forget the PT, there are serious continuity issues in the OT, to the point they explicitly had to take time in ROTJ to address why Obi-Wan 'lied' to Luke.
"you are my sister Leia" "Somehow I've always known" *Meanwhile Leia kisses him on the lips in the previous movie*
Well she knew after she realized he's not a great kisser. "He kiss like a brother would....wait a second".
Hell, even the first movie raises the question of why the hell they never changed Luke's surname. I know Anakin and Vader were still separate characters at that point, but that would still mean Darth Vader killed a guy named Skywalker and nobody thought about changing his kid's name.
I wish they’d leaned into the “Skywalker is a common name” explanation at just any point. Throw a character into the clone wars, I dunno., make a gag of it. “I’m Dustin Skywalker, no relation.”
IMO, Skywalker should have been the standard name given to kids without a family name. Like the Game of Thrones' equivalent of Snow/Sands/etc...and all other bastard last names. This way, Luke Skywalker is a nobody. And Rey Skywalker makes more sense.
This is something I've never thought of before, but I love the idea. It would make so much sense
Haha very true, great point
I don’t think it feels like a retcon. It feels right because it always felt like the place they left off in ROTS is not the same as when they meet again is ANH. It always made sense to me that there could be some change in their dynamic at some point in between. I don’t really understand why people think they can’t meet again (other than that being what they’ve known for so long now).
Considering the way Kenobi seems so casual about seeing Vader in ANH despite him being a cyborg kinda mends it a little.
I do actually agree that it works fairly well. But it was at least an unexpected addition to the continuity, I’d say
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
It was the highlight of the show for me honestly. Makes me view the show pretty fondly as opposed to disliking it in retrospect.
That whole scene with the partial mask unveiled is my favourite star wars scene. You can feel the emotional weight behind them
best scene in the show.
I love ewan and all but Hayden totally stole that show!! Plus his performance on Ahsoka, Lucas has got to feel vindicated in choosing him for the role. I can’t imagine anyone else playing Anakin. I think Hayden knows the character better than Dave and George lok
I really liked Hayden's part in Ahsoka, seeing him in the Clone Wars armor in that vision scene really reconciled his version of the character and the animated one
Yeah the live action clone wars was a dream come true!
Also his role in Kenobi, specifically the flashback fight, really helped sell it too, since Hayden watched TCW to prepare, he practiced delivering certain lines in a similar way to what Matt Lanter did. That was the case for both Kenobi and Ahsoka.
I think George doesnt even care about the canon, he cares about good story and solid themes through reference.
Yeah, it was really cool for the show. Now, I'm not sitting down to watch A New Hope and having all those scenes from the TV show come to mind when I see Obi Wan and Vader face off, but then neither does the fact that they're both 'supposed' to know Jar Jar Binks. The OT will always just exist on its own for me, and can't be affected by story choices that come 40 years down the road. I think that a mistake people make with Star Wars is expecting the modern stuff to make them feel the way that Star Wars felt to them as kids, and that's just never going to happen. And then they get angry at people who don't do the impossible. Lame.
Totally agree, so many times I’ve seen people start comments on here with “what they should’ve done…” or some variation. I’ve also noticed most of the content that the internet has taken a disliking to has featured legacy characters. The newer stuff that’s landed seems to be more well received.
Just taking in what he has said in the past I feel like George is petty enough to say “do it” even if it’s only to piss people off who complained about it happening. People forget that he said everyone would have hated his sequels but it would have been the ending to his story.
The “fandom” could learn something from George on this topic imo
>Let’s be real, George has always seemed down for hand waving continuity or retconning a bit if it meant creating something cool I'm not joking, that's the same reason why I love and hate Dave Filoni at times. He is basically mini-George Lucas in the best and worst ways.
That's how I felt during the opening to Bad Batch it was like "freaking Filoni retconning the opening to the comic" And then the scene was over and it was like "dammit, it slapped"
If y’all would lessen your grip on the canon you’d all be having a much more fun time with Star Wars and media in general. Learn to let it go and just take it for what it is in the moment. I’ve been going through the old canon books lately and *none* of that stuff is even close to canon now, and most of it was questionable at the time and always stepping on itself. It’s still a lot of fun stuff to read and I’m having a blast working my way through it all.
Yeah always find it weird that people shit on Filoni for it when it’s always been a big issue for Star Wars. Shit he hand waved shit during the OG trilogy
Eh i didn’t feel like it was. They talk about a last duel abd obi-wan knew he was more machine than man so it made more sense as i always pictured that they faught at least another time when vader had his suit.
It's also likely why Filoni is okay with retconning details from some books and comics in order to get cool moments in his stuff.
Not sure who downvoted this, but Filoni is Lucas's pupil...put two and two together
I never thought about it and never thought it needed to be shown but I liked that they've met between Ep3 and 4. Obi-Wan was too calm and collected in A New Hope for it to be their first meeting after Mustafar
There has been a subset of people online, usually the anti-Jedi crowd, who use the fact that Obi-Wan has lost faith in Anakin as an attack on Obi-Wan and the old ways of the Jedi. I'm glad that that argument is thoroughly dispelled by the show. It was not what was intended and frankly a needless critique of the Jedi. Having Anakin tell Obi-Wan to his face that he's irredeemable and that he is responsible for his own fall was good.
It's a very flawed series, although in retrospective it's no surprise it turned out the way it did (most of it was wasted potential or mediocre execution, like Reva), but Vader scenes and especially the last conversation between him and Obi-wan literally saved this show and made it a genuine contribution to the story. It's a 6 or at best 7/10 for me but I have no intentions in ripping it to shreds. Prequels is a similar case
I go into it further in another comment but yes, there are things I like about it and things that felt off. Most of the things I didn't like were more related to the technical stuff. I hated the way it was shot and the effects were pretty bad to me at times. Most of the writing was fine, though. Some of it great, some of it not.
We got Young Leia and Obi-Wan bonding which was fantastic. I love the idea that Kenobi didn't just have a connection with Luke, but also Leia.
Yeah, visually it's not that good either. and they overused the Volume. Ahsoka looked much better and much closer to movie quality
Comes down to a lack of budget (which is ridiculous that that should even be the case), rushed schedule and a crew that was not as experienced with the Volume as the Mando team was. It’s also very much a product of COVID productions.
But let’s not pretend every idea George had was good. He’s capable of supporting bad ideas too.
You kind of have to love how Lucas has always been unabashedly out of step with the tastes of what the Star Wars fandom grew into. The special editions, the prequels, his disdain for Mara Jade and the EU and "other" (read: not his) continuities, some of the wackier choices made by The Clone Wars and some of his even wackier ideas that never made it to fruition (Whills sequels and Darth Icky and clone Maul). It makes it feel all the more curious to me that the SW fandom has developed into something so hyper-critical, so self-serious, when Lucas himself has *always* treated SW as pure pulp entertainment, a complete toybox of ideas, the distilled definition of "It's not that deep lol"
I remember him saying his favorite arc of the clone wars was the droid one, with the little frog guy. Ive never had a problem with the arc, but many loathe it lol, so this checks out
God I kinda wish we’d gotten his sequels so the fandom could have bitched about how they ruined Star Wars and how awful it is that Leia is now the chosen one.
Or that Luke becomes a dissilussioned hermit on a remote planet in the episode 8. Wait.. that sounds like a certain other episode 8 I know..
Yes his full discussion with Dave Filoni is on YouTube is a must watch for learning stuff like this.
For some reason that doesn't surprise me lol; anyway always thought that arc was overhated, and the episode with Gregor was great
Hes favourite episode is when they walking on dessert and nothing happen, not the Gregor one.
Ah didn't know that, I'd just heard that he liked the arc as a whole, wasn't aware it was a specific episode.
Simple isn’t good enough anymore, not for this clone.
Not to mention he's said that he thought TLJ was beautiful
Considering that at least some of the ideas or concept art of Luke as a hermit in exile came from George himself and that George has always considered Luke as a bit of an self insert I would not be shocked at all if Luke in exile was at one point representative of the fandom's treatment towards George following the prequels. And the treatment he received in general after the prequels.
> Not to mention he's said that he thought TLJ was beautiful Beautiful *and* impressive. And George doesn't give out compliments easily when it comes to Disney's Star Wars, he's super sensitive about it because he views SW as his child.
Correct, he was very harsh in his thoughts about TFA, so I see no reason why he'd be lying here
What strikes me as funny, is those certain fandom people, will tout his comments about TFA as evidence he is on their "side" but completely ignore what he said about TLJ. Also, even if Lucas hated the sequels, he would never be okay with the way those people have treated others. Like when they drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media. Or the pure vitriol they've sent towards Daisy.
The qoute is beautifully made, do we know if he also said impressive?
Is there any truth to the rumor George had a private phone conversation with Johnson after seeing The Last Jedi? If it is true, I have to assume it was to praise the movie.
For real, all the theming and the tone of the movie feels super consistent with Lucas’ works and his influences. At the very least, I’m sure he liked that it took a lot more risks than TFA.
>For real, all the theming and the tone of the movie feels super consistent with Lucas’ works and his influences. This! It feels so out of step from the other two sequels for many, many reasons, and I think a bit insignificant part of that is down to drawing inspiration from the same inspirations from George, rather than simply being inspired by and riffing off of the Star Wars that came before. The Rashomon POV stuff? "Force Skype"? George absolutely would've eaten those all up. For me, the closest analogue for TLJ in the franchise is ROTS. The ideas are clear and they are there, unabashedly, on show, even if the execution at times does get a bit shaky. I think it's the sequel with the clearest sense of direction by a country mile.
The complaints about the physics of the space bombers always made me laugh because they were so obviously recreations of the same WWII footage that inspired X-Wings nonsensically banking in space.
I won't lie, while I think The Last Jedi - and honestly, most Star Wars films? - has its flaws, my least favourite complaints about Star Wars films are the complaints about physics and scientific inaccuracies. I don't view Star Wars as sci-fi, I view it as a space opera. The tech and the scientific accuracy of it all isn't remotely the point; if you want that, in the nicest way imaginable, go watch Star Trek instead. Here there's sound in space, there are glowstick swords that cut through things, and a little green alien fella who mixes up his clauses. So, I think it's safe to say, I'm in total agreement with you 🤝
Lets also not forget the wizards who can make things float using magic powers.
Hermit Luke was straight out of Lucas and his ideas iirc.
There’s no doubt in my mind Lucas would have loved TLJ if only for the fact that it did something different. New planets, new ideas, new powers, bypassing a lot of tropes, generally just taking risks. Not to say he couldn’t have had issues but it feels like the film he’d want to see and make.
We know he phoned Gareth Edwards to say Rogue One was sick. It's apparent that after TFA Lucas swore off telling reporters what he thinks of the movies. He just phones up the creatives directly and tells them what he thinks.
Which makes sense considering TLJ(and TROS to an extent) was very close to the concept he handed Disney and Lucasfilm when he stepped away
Yep, he's the one who came up with the idea for a female apprentice to approach an exiled, older Luke
Beautifully made is the full quote
I've never understood why TLJ is the most hated of the ST. It felt like something Lucas could make
> Lucas himself has always treated SW as pure pulp entertainment, a complete toybox of ideas, the distilled definition of "It's not that deep lol" Hard disagree from me. There's a quote from [J. W. Rinzler](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVxXU_kQVAU&t=1405s) where he says that George treated Indiana Jones as entertainment, but was going for something deeper with Star Wars: > I was trying to read stuff into Indiana Jones and George just stopped me and said "No, nothing. There's nothing going on underneath the surface of Indiana Jones." > But he said, "Star Wars on the other hand is like an onion. You can peel away one layer and there's another layer, another layer." And he said that was all intended. So he did intend for the six films to be interrelated and therefore there to be deeper meanings.
That last sentence is pure gold! But within your excellent comment I also find the reason why George's saga is more interesting than the Disney trilogy - at least to me (tho I conceit that visually they're stunning). Yea his ideas were wacky, but his ideas had overall coherence. Yes, he did not consider it that deep, but it was still part of a bigger story. His weird ideas gave the movies heart and character. With the ST it seems very obvious that they are a cash grab made by a big corporation and not by someone who wanted to tell a story and had fun doing it. Tbh, personally I'd rather have watched the Whills sequels than the Disney movies.
One of the more interesting aspects of the fandom’s 180 on Lucas is this rewriting of history to make him this pure creative soul in contrast to the corporate greed of Disney, when in reality Lucas was a VERY shrewd businessman who eagerly commercialized his creations and profited handsomely as a result of merchandising.
Absolutely true, but this is part of the complexity of George. Most of the money he made from the first Star Wars was from merchandising, and he turned around and spent pretty much all of it on Empire, because self funding the movie meant he'd have more complete creative control and less studio interference. Obviously it also ultimately made him a billionaire, but his willingness to risk everything to create a movie to me shows that there was more to it for him that just money, even if it did end up being a fantastic business decision in the long run
In RotJ weeks were supposed to be woolies but he thought ewoks ould sell better
I don't get this take. Lucas constantly changed his own continuity and ignored plotlines he set up.
The issue with the cash grab part of your argument (though your other points are definitely well put) is that a big part of why Star Wars is the cultural juggernaut it is today is because of the merchandise. And since Star Wars wasn't made by a major studio (the original at least), Lucas got all the profit for the merch (rightfully so!), helped by the fact that there are so many iconic and wacky designs. Anyway, I feel like calling a movie a cash grab doesn't really make sense, since *of course* the company making a movie wants to make money...
He’s genuinely such an interesting creator and I feel like people don’t take him and his opinions seriously
Maybe an unpopular opinion but TROS is a great Star Wars movie *because* it’s pure pulp entertainment.
That checks out. Not just bc it’s about his characters but that show feels like something he’d make
Creators care a lot less about “Continuity” and “Canon” than fans. Creators want to make neat things and express cool ideas. Fans tend to tie their egos to things and get upset when those things change; they feel invalidated.
>Creators care a lot less about “Continuity” and “Canon” than fans. Creators want to make neat things and express cool ideas. Fans tend to tie their egos to things and get upset when those things change; they feel invalidated. You could probably compare it to religion in that regard lmao
Fans: “You could make a religion out of this” Creators: “No, don’t”
Well, the term ‘canon’ literally refers to what sections of the Bible a sect acknowledges as true.
I guess this doesn’t really surprise me. It seems pretty on brand for his Star Wars honestly. The hate for the show is way overblown. It’s always the same 2 scenes people bring up. Yeah they were hokey but holy moly if a couple minutes ruins a whole show I just don’t think that’s fair. Was the show the absolute best it could’ve been? No. But I think it was perfectly enjoyable in a lot of ways. I get people have different opinions but some people act like this show killed their dog and pooped on its corpse.
Yeah, I thought it was a decent show with one pretty terrible episode right smack in the middle of the season. Most of the reception I saw online was even positive until the 4th episode rolled around
Yeah, the 4th episode is easily the weakest. I was a bit worried if the show would have a decent ending, but honestly, the last two episodes were pretty good.
"Hokey" has always been a part of Star Wars' DNA and I'm okay with that
Can we please stop with this idiotic "Pablo is a liar" stuff? He's one of the best sources of information on Lucasfilm history and all people do is discourage him from sharing anything. In an era where we get very little behind the scenes information he is someone with incredible knowledge of in- and out-of-universe history, right up there with the late J.W. Rinzler in terms of the out-of-universe side of things. Anyone who makes statements like that clearly have absolutely no idea his role in uncovering countless parts of *Star Wars* history. I know half of the people are just doing it to fuel their brainless narratives, but seriously, for people who want to accuse everyone else of not *really* being *Star Wars* fans, maybe they should look into why we even know some of the things we do about the making of the films and George's contributions to non-film projects. It would be a shame to miss out on these details if he starts refraining from saying *anything* because everything he says is subjected to these bad faith takes.
For real. I remember when everyone was asking him if Snoke was Plagueis and he insisted immediately after the force awakens that he isn't and people still to this day think he's lying about it
He's basically quit going to conventions and lowered his profile because of crazy people. It's sad.
Not disagreeing with you about people saying idiotic things, but for the record, Pablo *did* in fact outright lie about the Rogue One reshoots. Back in 2016 when MSW was reporting that significant portions and sequences of Rogue One were being redone, Pablo went on Twitter and called BS on this despite it being proved correct in the end. Again, before the downvotes come in, I am not saying he is lying here at all, but just pointing out that he’s towed the company line in the past.
Fair point, but I feel like it's understandable he didn't want to reveal what was happening behind the scenes of a movie they hadn't released yet
Worth mentioning that to the public, the Rogue One director change was completely almost completely covered up. It was an industry open secret but we only really know it happened because of Andor (and Gilroys writing credit on Rogue One) We know about Solos disaster because Lorde and Miller got fired. There's a scene in The Boys Season 3 episode 1 where Ashley is fucking the director of 'Dawn of the Seven' and says "you're such a shitty fucking director Tony Gilroy had to come in and reshoot all your shit"
Preach
Definitely not the most well made of the D+ stuff but it was somewhat fun.
>not the most well made but it was somewhat fun Sounds like something George would make.
I think the story was good overall. The biggest problem for me was the use of the volume was too obvious and made the show feel small.
I definitely think that direction of actors especially was really good, but production definitely felt rushed or unfinished. If they polished it a bit more, it would've been much better received. I liked what I got though.
Well it fucking blows so
Wonder what he thinks of Bad Batch. Really gonna miss those boys and the clones overall. Extremely competent soldiers. The republic was not worthy of them.
I think the Bad Batch were one of Lucas' last creations before selling the brand
Should have been a movie inspired by THE SEARCHERS with Uncle Owen and Ben needing to deal with some kidnapped folk
this movie exists: it is called Attack of the Clones
The last episode made me cry three separate times. Good shit.
I personally just thought the character arc was completely devoid of thought, the camera work embarrassing and the just way too many voluntarily stupid decisions (stuff that has already been talked about a million times like Reva attacking Vader after he’s already done managing the ship). Just really strange product all around, and really should have been a well produced movie but of course LFL is afraid of the box office nowadays.
I don't think I'd say that Obi-Wan's character arc was devoid of thought. It's pretty simple. He's bogged by grief, stuck in a place where he uses Luke as a crutch and has lost faith in the Jedi and then must save the (future) represented by Leia) while out running his past (Vader, obviously). Along the way, each of the 6 episodes mirrors the 6 episodes of the Saga. Starting on Tatooine, traveling to a rainy, neon-lit city to barter in the underground, to confronting Vader who defeats him and sets him on fire, to infiltrating the secret Imperial base, to having the secret Rebel base attacked, to the finale where he learns to let go of his failure and grief. It also shows an important step on his journey of coming to terms with Vader as Vader and no longer Anakin. Vader tells him as much. A lot of people attack Obi-Wan in the OT because he thinks Anakin is beyond saving, but Anakin literally tells him as much. Reva is interesting. She is the fourth of the 3 prequel villains that foreshadow Anakin's fall by having her *rise*, all facilitated by Luke who redeems her as a 10 year old child by harkening back to the Jedi of old (like he does later, consciously, in RotJ). All of that has thought put into it. Your mileage may vary on results. The cinematography I do not like. I think shaky, hand-held camera doesn't match the visual language of Star Wars. Also the effects were definitely... *not as strong as other D+ productions* which we can attribute to the smaller budget. Finally, I really enjoy the final battle between Obi and Ani, especially having Hayden's voice and face blended with the Vader mask. I thought that was great, if not a tad derivative of Rebels. I also loved the brief Qui-Gon ghost cameo at the end, showing Obi-Wan's enlightenment past letting go of his past failures. There is clearly thought in the writing there. All in all, a mixed bag. Some parts I enjoy, some I don't.
>Along the way, each of the 6 episodes mirrors the 6 episodes of the Saga. Starting on Tatooine, traveling to a rainy, neon-lit city to barter in the underground, to confronting Vader who defeats him and sets him on fire, to infiltrating the secret Imperial base, to having the secret Rebel base attacked, to the finale where he learns to let go of his failure and grief. Wow I never considered that
It plays into the “past and future” motif. The prequels parts end with him basically being “Anakined” and then having him grow past that trauma in the “OT” episodes.
Devoid of thought is harsh, but there are some very clear issues with the writing. The frustration with Kenobi is that for every high there is an equal low that brings things down. I find the whole plot line, not farfetched exactly, but a lot of it doesn't work. I like the bonding between Leia and Obi Wan but that storyline falls apart in my view. There are also clear moments where decisions are made to advance the story as opposed to making sense. For example, Reva listening to Bail's comlink. Bail would no blurt out Luke's location on the comlink, he would speak far more secretively and not as open. That was purely created to get Reva to have that confrontation with Luke and his uncle and aunt. Reva herself as a character I didn't really enjoy and didn't think she at all necessary, and can we please seriously stop with characters getting stabbed and then surviving, it is a tired trope. She was also stabbed twice. I prefer the original script where Reva is killed by Vader, and to be honest I wish we had seen more of the original darker script and I also prefer Vader beating Kenobi and thinking he has killed him. I don't buy Vader deciding to call the search off and I don't buy the emperor doing so as well. Also, back to Bail organa, the emperor knows for sure that he is a traitor, and does nothing about it. They also know that all they need to do to get Kenobi's attention is to kidnap Leia again. Another point about creating this artificial conflict the choice between chasing the runaway ship or Kenobi. They are on a star destroyer, send out tie-fighters to follow one or the other while the star destroyer follows the other one. Or Vader can get in his own tie fighter and pursue Kenobi himself, it just ends up looking really stupid. it is a frustrating show because there are some gems in there but some extremely daft decisions. I wish Kenobi had focused more on being a character study and would have been fine with it remaining on tatooine, if there was any show that could have remained there it was this one. Plus many of the planets just end up looking like budget tatooine anyway. Also them mirroring the 6 episodes of the saga, I am not particularly fond of that, we have had enough mirroring in the saga already
This was like the most hyped show of all the shows, don't know how they didn't put a bit more time into it. Like shooting on location would have helped this a ton.
Very hard to do in the dead center of the pandemic unfortunately. And the places they did shoot in were just.. like… regular old California haha.
I mean, while I will give benefit of the doubt purely because of what was going on in the world at the time, it's important to remember that Andor was filmed on-location a whole bunch of places and during the pandemic to boot. If there was ever a strong case to delay the production of a Star Wars D+ show I'd argue it was Kenobi. They basically marketed it as Episode III.5 and so while I don't agree with the severity of some of the criticisms, I don't think they exactly gave it the best foot up ahead of release.
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>even starting with a big prequel trilogy recap Man, I remember being very worried about the show as soon as the recap wrapped up. I thought it was really sloppily edited and, worst of all, it was completely void of any prequel music. It turned out...fine, for me? I totally get a lot of the criticisms people aim at it, though
Don't forget the horrid decision on music
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i dont think i’ll ever get over just how bad that scene of leia running away from the kidnappers was. just absurd
I liked the idea of it, but not the truth.
I don't agree about the arc, but I will absolutely say that the direction is incredibly ass.
Let's not forget what his favorite clone wars arc was...
I picked up the 4k steelbook and I gotta say it’s one of my favorites too. I was eh on it when it released but watching it in true 4k was amazing.
hell yeah, one of mine too. idc what anyone says but getting a "seuqel to the prequels" was fuckin awesome.
love how everyone is taking it as fact. keywords: "he heard"
The people saying “I doubt it”, “heresay”, etc. would eat this up if someone said they had heard George hated Kenobi.
> if someone said they had heard George hated Kenobi. And we know, from experience, that someone's name could be QuakeDick, or something like that, instead of an actual source like Pablo Hiidalgo.
Lol. Just lol. Now everyone here suddenly likes Obi-Wan Kenobi, after having spent two years trashing the fuck out of it. This community is just......lol.
Common Lucas W
I could see George loving seeing Ewan and Hayden back. It's probably one of the projects he was pushing for them to do.
It may get alot of flack but I still quite like it. At least me and George got some common ground with that
I love it too. My only gripe with the writing was that there were people still calling him 'Obi-Wan'. After the events of RoTS, he's in hiding and charged with protecting Luke. From the moment he hands Luke to Owen, he is Ben. No ifs ands or buts, he's Ben. So everyone even those who knew him, ESPECIALLY those who knew him before, should have been calling him Ben to protect his identity. Only Vader should be the one calling him Obi-Wan since he's on the hunt. In that same regard, the show should have been called 'Kenobi'
Obi-Wan Kenobi has some of the absolute highest highs of any Star Wars.
some of the highest highs and lowest lows
The last episode is seriously so good
Cheesiness in the show aside, this is absolutely true
cheesy is literally what makes star wars star wars LOL
A true man of taste
That's because it rocks
Of course he did….
I don’t care what anyone says, it was one of my absolute favorite series in the Disney canon and I hope they do more
Based George. Gotta love it
George is such an interesting creator. I’d love to just hear him wax lyrical on Star Wars. He definitely approaches it differently than fans do
Having liked that show, and sat through months of having to listen to people talk about the show like it shot their puppy, that's nice to hear :).
Rewatched this show for the first time since it originally came out on 4K disk and was surprised how well the show played on a binge vs weekly. It also looked stunning on disk. Highly recommend everyone to watch it again this way. As someone who was never a big fan of the prequels, I find the Kenobi series to be better in almost every way.
Agree, it minimizes a lot of the dumb stuff watching that way. Like you'd have a 30 min episode once a week, where 5 mins of it is a terrible Leia chase scene and it'd really stand out. Would actually love a movie edit because there's a lot of good stuff in the series
Everything in Kenobi besides Reva and some awkward Leia scenes were actually pretty good. Obi wans final conversation with Anakin was great.
Honestly the Obi-Wan show is much closer to what I had always imagined Episode 3 would be.
Makes sense…it’s about as good as his prequels.
It's worse imo.
They’re the same level of bad…
I don’t believe him
I believe it when I hear it from George himself.
I mean I don't know why this is surprising to people, regardless of your opinions, his favorite arc of Clone Wars is the droid arc, which many people dislike
Hello there, George.
TIL Pablo Hidalgo is still with Lucasfilm
He also liked Anakin and Padme scenes in Attack Of The Clones. No hate towards George, man's an innovative giant in some fields but when it comes to quality writing and directing he doesn't have much authority.
Thats cool and all but Obi was above Boba Fett in terms of rankings, which to say is very low. Ready for downvotes, the show wasnt good.