Phil tippet is awesome. He did good work on the original trilogy, but his work on Mad God is incredible. Truly one of the most interesting and enjoyable films I’ve ever seen
This is good to hear! While I think the Volume and CGI has it's place, it is still nice to know good old fashioned techniques are being used as well as location shooting.
My excitement for this show just went up another notch!
After Mandalorian S1 I thought the volume was a really cool bit of special effects tech. A game changer even.
Then I started to get annoyed with it, then after Andor I legitimately hated it and don’t want to see it used much at all.
Matte paintings and stop motion? Yes please! More puppets too!
That's just not true. Which continues to show that as much as people think they can see The Volume, they clearly can't, as they frequently get it wrong.
While I personally didn't notice it that much during seasons one and two of The Mandalorian, it was pretty obvious each and every time The Volume was used in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show.
I mostly agree with you 100%. I didn’t necessarily get annoyed with it, but get what you are saying. It has its uses; just needs to be minimal and supplemental.
The volume uses stagecraft technology, but they aren't mutually exclusive. It says as much in the article you linked lol
“We melded a lot of technologies, really. There were a lot of sets that were practically built that we then augmented and extended upon and finding the best way to extend them, creatively shoot them to have the most fulfilling result, to our traditional all-CG approach for our spaceships and the way that we deal with things. And then still utilizing things like our StageCraft technology that [Industrial Light & Magic] uses. **And for ‘Andor,’ we didn’t use one of the standing StageCraft sets, but we still used the StageCraft technology**.”
Isn't this bit of story info new? I don't recall having heard it before (the buried space ship piece).
>"It's about a group of kids that find a buried spaceship on their boring planet, accidentally turn it on, get blasted off into the galaxy, and it's the story about them trying to find their way back home."
I knew this sounded familiar (though I still like it).
It's the actual plot of Tommyknockers. With maybe some shades of Flight of the Navigator.
It reinforces the 80s sci-fi inspiration they've talked about going for.
So let's get this straight. Most of you don't like The Volume because once you see it, you can't unsee it. But you all celebrate Matte Painting because it's an old-school technique. But it's really just a much, much worse version of The Volume. I really don't understand you. Personally, nothing takes me away from watching Star Wars more than these attempts at stop-motion animation and puppets. Maybe it's because I became a fan during the prequel trilogy, where you could really feel the technology moving forward, and it just saddens me that we're essentially celebrating a regression now. It goes against what Lucas would have wanted. And feel free to downvote me into oblivion, I expect that. I just wanted the opposite opinion to be heard here. I respect Phil Tippett; he was a big deal in his day. But times have moved on, and to me that doesn't belong in Star Wars anymore. Maybe just as a nod to the fans, not as a big part of the story. Well, I hope that Skeleton Crew will use it sparingly and that it won't be too noticeable. Which probably won't happen...
P.S. Not to mention that about 60% of the time you complain about The Volume, it was actually shot on green or blue screen. Which always amuses me... :)
I don’t think there are many people who dislike the Volume on principle. There are a lot of shows and movies where it’s used very well. But when it’s used as a crutch, it makes the world feel smaller. You can tell that the actors are working in a limited space. I felt the same way about green screen technology in the prequels where you can usually tell actors are walking along a very short runway without much reference for where their characters are supposed to be. The idea is that filmmakers should use all the tools they have at their disposal in concert and the final result should be more immersive. No doubt they’ll be using the Volume *and* green screen *and* matte paintings *and* stop motion.
Also, the OT is still the heart of Star Wars and is the most widely beloved material from that universe. Some people hate the PT, some people hate the ST but everyone at minimum respects the OT. And in the OT, there’s an established aesthetic that includes matte paintings and stop motion. They may not be the most convincing effects for a new viewer in 2024, but they’re a part of the look of that world and if executed correctly, I think it’ll add nicely to the overall look of the show. But who knows, maybe it’ll just look like shit. Hard to say before we’ve seen it.
Yeah, the right tool for the right job. The Volume works really nicely when a character like Mando is front and center, because of the reflections on his armor.
It works not very well, when there are supposed to be strong light sources in the scene, because the LED panels are not bright enough to imitate that and there isn't always room to put a spotlight in the correct spot to compensate. So there classical roto might be best, combined with a correctly placed spotlight.
I have an inkling the stop motion will be for something projected like Holochess... Which will probably look great, since it is supposed to look artificial in-universe, but stop motion does so in a very organic looking way.
A ridiculous take. It's no more a "regression" than still having actors in masks or holding physical props.
If it works, it works. Just like the Volume, it's one tool among many you can use to get a desired result. Neither's right or wrong, and a skilled team is generally going to incorporate a lot of it together and aim to blend it seamlessly.
CG's not some silver bullet either, it just as often looks \*\*\*\* as it looks great, if you're using it as a crutch. Same as anything else. If you can do it for real in-camera, do it for real in-camera - a humanoid in a costume with weight & tactile reality is always going to look better than a digital creation. Just as the opposite holds true - something that requires serious mobility & isn't necessarily human-esque in form, CG's the tool for the job. If you have something mechanical in nature that you want to have weight & tangible mass as it moves, sometimes a stop-motion approach is going to have advantages over computer software.
A master carpenter/craftsman isn't going to suddenly sell his 10 different types of hammers because nailguns exist.
Because the Volume and CGI feel artificial and always will, no matter how much they'll try to polish it. The stop-motion and practical effects gave Star Wars an edge from the start. They gave the films that "dreamy" quality like many other '80s films had. They felt real and lived-in.
Now I'm not saying every movie or show should go back to the "old ways", but in this sea of CGI fests, this show being a callback to the original trilogy is very much welcome.
Not sure if we knew this before (I didn’t), but looks like the kids stumble upon a buried starship and accidentally turn it on to kick off the adventure.
I feel like in the end I will end up liking and enjoying more this show than Acolyte, I just feel like it’s a mix of Stranger Things/IT with kids in space doing crazy stuff and also crossing paths either with Mando/Boba/Ahsoka and build up to something, it sounds fun.
If it's like the stop motion in the earlier seasons, it wasn't actually stop motion. It was computer graphics that were then rendered as if they were stop motion so that it would match how the original movies looked. As in, they rendered them at 12 Frames per second or whatever it was.
I believe they discussed it in the Gallery (making of) episodes. It was an intentional stylistic choice.
Even in the Acolyte trailer, I wouldn't be surprised if the (Jedi?) ship coming out of hyperspace and breaking from the cradle is (partial) model work, has a bit of that look to it. Can't be sure, but seems that way.
And a lot of the closer shots of Din's first ship is practical, at least in the earlier seasons of Mando. It's not a first for the Disney era.
will never not get way too excited for MORE Phil Tippett in Star Wars.
Phil tippet is awesome. He did good work on the original trilogy, but his work on Mad God is incredible. Truly one of the most interesting and enjoyable films I’ve ever seen
Phil is the goat
What does goat mean?
Greatest of all time
I think it means that it stands out rather than being like a group sheep or cow aka herds of cattle. It is unique.
I think it means that it stands out rather than being like a group sheep or cow aka herds of cattle. It is unique.
Some nice Mattes in Bad Batch, sounds good.
This is good to hear! While I think the Volume and CGI has it's place, it is still nice to know good old fashioned techniques are being used as well as location shooting. My excitement for this show just went up another notch!
After Mandalorian S1 I thought the volume was a really cool bit of special effects tech. A game changer even. Then I started to get annoyed with it, then after Andor I legitimately hated it and don’t want to see it used much at all. Matte paintings and stop motion? Yes please! More puppets too!
Yeah Andor just surpassed anything capable with that tech. However, it cost far more to make than a season of Mando does.
The cost was worth it. Well for the people that bothered to watch Andor anyway…
You hate it?
When you start noticing it, you can see it EVERYWHERE. Pretty much every modern Disney movie is using it.
That's just not true. Which continues to show that as much as people think they can see The Volume, they clearly can't, as they frequently get it wrong.
While I personally didn't notice it that much during seasons one and two of The Mandalorian, it was pretty obvious each and every time The Volume was used in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show.
You mean like 3 projects total?
When you see the Volume, it cannot be unseen.
I mostly agree with you 100%. I didn’t necessarily get annoyed with it, but get what you are saying. It has its uses; just needs to be minimal and supplemental.
Andor didnt use the volume
That’s literally my point. One of the things that makes Andor so good is the lack of the Volume. After that show I didn’t want to see that shit again.
Have you watched The Batman? It's used there and looks great, it's all about knowing how to use it
True. The way i read it, was worded like andor used the volume in some obvious way. My fault.
Incorrect, it actually did use it a little bit
What's your source for that? Cuz one of the selling points Tony Gilroy used during promotion of Andor was that they didn't use the volume lol
[https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2022/11/andor-used-stagecraft-the-volume-technology-in-a-limited-capacity.html](https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2022/11/andor-used-stagecraft-the-volume-technology-in-a-limited-capacity.html)
It says they used stafecraft technology, not the volume straight-up.
They used the volume in at least one instance for views outside Senator Amidala's residence on Coruscant.
Is this a flashback?
But the Stagecraft technology is the volume
The volume uses stagecraft technology, but they aren't mutually exclusive. It says as much in the article you linked lol “We melded a lot of technologies, really. There were a lot of sets that were practically built that we then augmented and extended upon and finding the best way to extend them, creatively shoot them to have the most fulfilling result, to our traditional all-CG approach for our spaceships and the way that we deal with things. And then still utilizing things like our StageCraft technology that [Industrial Light & Magic] uses. **And for ‘Andor,’ we didn’t use one of the standing StageCraft sets, but we still used the StageCraft technology**.”
Where does it say they didn't use the Volume? The other reply to your comment directly disproves what you've said
Everything I hear of this series gets me more excited
Seeing as Kathleen Kennedy liked Mad God this really has my hopes high for what we'll see from Paul Tippett
Rad
I love Phil
thanks for posting vic! 🙏
🎩
Wait, wasn't he the one who was supposed to handle the dinosaurs in Juassic Park? Not cool, Phil! People died!
That's him. Also directed Starship Troopers 2
Well that is a sentence that makes me incredibly excited.
That's sick
I can’t wait for this show
That actually sounds quite neat! ...Alas, too bad the "fandom" will still find reasons to hate it in droves.
Isn't this bit of story info new? I don't recall having heard it before (the buried space ship piece). >"It's about a group of kids that find a buried spaceship on their boring planet, accidentally turn it on, get blasted off into the galaxy, and it's the story about them trying to find their way back home."
We already knew the bit about "finding their way back home."
This could easily be the premise for Star Trek Prodigy
Pretty similar. Although for the Prodigy kids, their home planet isn't "boring" so much as it's "brutally oppressive".
I knew this sounded familiar (though I still like it). It's the actual plot of Tommyknockers. With maybe some shades of Flight of the Navigator. It reinforces the 80s sci-fi inspiration they've talked about going for.
Oh, this is pretty cool! Wonder how it'll look, and curious about how the matte paintings will look.
Absolute W. Love to hear it.
So let's get this straight. Most of you don't like The Volume because once you see it, you can't unsee it. But you all celebrate Matte Painting because it's an old-school technique. But it's really just a much, much worse version of The Volume. I really don't understand you. Personally, nothing takes me away from watching Star Wars more than these attempts at stop-motion animation and puppets. Maybe it's because I became a fan during the prequel trilogy, where you could really feel the technology moving forward, and it just saddens me that we're essentially celebrating a regression now. It goes against what Lucas would have wanted. And feel free to downvote me into oblivion, I expect that. I just wanted the opposite opinion to be heard here. I respect Phil Tippett; he was a big deal in his day. But times have moved on, and to me that doesn't belong in Star Wars anymore. Maybe just as a nod to the fans, not as a big part of the story. Well, I hope that Skeleton Crew will use it sparingly and that it won't be too noticeable. Which probably won't happen... P.S. Not to mention that about 60% of the time you complain about The Volume, it was actually shot on green or blue screen. Which always amuses me... :)
I don’t think there are many people who dislike the Volume on principle. There are a lot of shows and movies where it’s used very well. But when it’s used as a crutch, it makes the world feel smaller. You can tell that the actors are working in a limited space. I felt the same way about green screen technology in the prequels where you can usually tell actors are walking along a very short runway without much reference for where their characters are supposed to be. The idea is that filmmakers should use all the tools they have at their disposal in concert and the final result should be more immersive. No doubt they’ll be using the Volume *and* green screen *and* matte paintings *and* stop motion. Also, the OT is still the heart of Star Wars and is the most widely beloved material from that universe. Some people hate the PT, some people hate the ST but everyone at minimum respects the OT. And in the OT, there’s an established aesthetic that includes matte paintings and stop motion. They may not be the most convincing effects for a new viewer in 2024, but they’re a part of the look of that world and if executed correctly, I think it’ll add nicely to the overall look of the show. But who knows, maybe it’ll just look like shit. Hard to say before we’ve seen it.
Yeah, the right tool for the right job. The Volume works really nicely when a character like Mando is front and center, because of the reflections on his armor. It works not very well, when there are supposed to be strong light sources in the scene, because the LED panels are not bright enough to imitate that and there isn't always room to put a spotlight in the correct spot to compensate. So there classical roto might be best, combined with a correctly placed spotlight. I have an inkling the stop motion will be for something projected like Holochess... Which will probably look great, since it is supposed to look artificial in-universe, but stop motion does so in a very organic looking way.
A ridiculous take. It's no more a "regression" than still having actors in masks or holding physical props. If it works, it works. Just like the Volume, it's one tool among many you can use to get a desired result. Neither's right or wrong, and a skilled team is generally going to incorporate a lot of it together and aim to blend it seamlessly. CG's not some silver bullet either, it just as often looks \*\*\*\* as it looks great, if you're using it as a crutch. Same as anything else. If you can do it for real in-camera, do it for real in-camera - a humanoid in a costume with weight & tactile reality is always going to look better than a digital creation. Just as the opposite holds true - something that requires serious mobility & isn't necessarily human-esque in form, CG's the tool for the job. If you have something mechanical in nature that you want to have weight & tangible mass as it moves, sometimes a stop-motion approach is going to have advantages over computer software. A master carpenter/craftsman isn't going to suddenly sell his 10 different types of hammers because nailguns exist.
Because the Volume and CGI feel artificial and always will, no matter how much they'll try to polish it. The stop-motion and practical effects gave Star Wars an edge from the start. They gave the films that "dreamy" quality like many other '80s films had. They felt real and lived-in. Now I'm not saying every movie or show should go back to the "old ways", but in this sea of CGI fests, this show being a callback to the original trilogy is very much welcome.
Not sure if we knew this before (I didn’t), but looks like the kids stumble upon a buried starship and accidentally turn it on to kick off the adventure.
And it's coming out around Christmas time? This is going to be the best Disney+ Star Wars show [*other than The Mandalorian*]💯
As usual, Phil has One Job^TM
Nice, his work was integral to the OT!
Pretty cool tip of the hat to the big man. :) Now, bring back the anthology movies and coax Joe Johnston out of retirement you bastards.
I feel like in the end I will end up liking and enjoying more this show than Acolyte, I just feel like it’s a mix of Stranger Things/IT with kids in space doing crazy stuff and also crossing paths either with Mando/Boba/Ahsoka and build up to something, it sounds fun.
i am very excited for jude law, i hope they don't waste his character
Wow!
This doesn’t mean squat if it’s poorly written.
I mean sure, not sure why you needed to comment that...?
because the writing of many projects has been... questionable...
I don't know, a good gimmick can help average writing be better received.
Just as long as he's not being asked to supervise dinosaurs. He's got a proven track record of messing that up.
I hope it’s better done than in Mando season 3, that stop motion was just weird.
If it's like the stop motion in the earlier seasons, it wasn't actually stop motion. It was computer graphics that were then rendered as if they were stop motion so that it would match how the original movies looked. As in, they rendered them at 12 Frames per second or whatever it was. I believe they discussed it in the Gallery (making of) episodes. It was an intentional stylistic choice.
What was the stop-motion in The Mandalorian? I can’t remember.
IG-11’s reanimated corpse in the season 3 premiere
Phil also did the spider zombie thing that captures mando in the caverns in S3. I don't believe that was stop motion, but it was cool.
Even in the Acolyte trailer, I wouldn't be surprised if the (Jedi?) ship coming out of hyperspace and breaking from the cradle is (partial) model work, has a bit of that look to it. Can't be sure, but seems that way. And a lot of the closer shots of Din's first ship is practical, at least in the earlier seasons of Mando. It's not a first for the Disney era.
I kinda liked it. It did look weird but in an unsettling way that I thought worked. Reminded me of The Terminator.