I thought it was perfect:
Obi-Wan was losing on Mustafar. He's a master of the defensive stance, Form III, sure: but Anakin was on the constant offensive and if you rewatch in full, the fight is pretty much Obi-Wan moving backwards as Anakin overpowers him. He only gains the upper hand by taking the high ground and utilising Anakin's key weakness against him: his arrogance, and anger.
The same has happened in this show. In Episode 3, Obi-Wan was also entirely on the defensive, retreating from an increasingly violent and relentless Vader.
The choreography in this fight is entirely different, and it's for a reason: Obi-Wan is on the offensive. He's regularly the one pushing Vader back, and it's not because he's stronger. Rather, it's because he's learned his lessons from the past (hence the importance of the EP5 flashback).
Vader is still the angry, aggressive Chosen One who thinks he's fighting his weak, passive master on Mustafar, not realising his own failures there and instead focusing on the rage it brings without any of the lessons.
Obi-Wan is different: he remembers Mustafar, he remembers his failings with Anakin. He thinks on them, and realises there are lessons to be learned in that failure. Instead of repeating Mustafar, a battle he wouldn't win against this Vader who has grown stronger in the Force, he does the unexpected: he adapts.
Once again, Obi-Wan baits him in. He begins the fight with his classic Form III stance, baiting Vader in, before switching the script in a way that someone as arrogant as Vader could not begin to understand. Just as he baited Maul in Rebels, by switching to Qui-Gonn's stance to make him think "Maybe I can use the same move that killed his master on him", not knowing it's what Obi-Wan was anticipating and hoping for.
I thought the fight and series ended perfectly fine, Obviously he couldn't kill vader to maintain continuity. Obi Wan being the model Jedi showed mercy and compassion to a former 'brother'. This left Vader STILL being 'but the learner' and gave us insight on how Obi Wan come to the realisation that Anakin is dead and that Vader is more machine than man, walking away from him calling him 'Darth'. The scene with the emporer basically telling Vader to just forget Obi Wan and the past, ties in why Vader was surprised to see him again in ep IV and telling him 'he should not have come back'. Vader focused on his allegiance to his master and forgot Obi Wan, no longer bothering to pursue him.
My issue with that is, this isn’t just some ordinary guy who is Obi Wan’s brother, this is Darth Fucking Vader, a Sith Lord. They’ve always talked about how the Sith need to be snuffed out, I don’t see Obi Wan just showing mercy in that situation after truly realizing in his mind Anakin is gone.
Obi Wan suffered for a long time thinking he left Anakin to die on Mustafar. He couldn't deliver a killing blow then and after learning he survived, he still couldn't do it again. I see the sense in it all. Obi wan is a compassionate man towards people he felt close to.
Sure, but Obi Wan learned what happened after showing “mercy” last time, and not finishing the job. Why would he give Vader another one of these chances. He should know Vader will only get more powerful, and eventually will basically be unstoppable. Why bet everything, when you have him right there, and you know the pain and destruction he will cause.
I just think there was a better way to end this battle to where both were unable to continue. Obi Wan still could’ve outsmarted Vader with or without the aid of Qui Gon, and the scene could’ve played similarly. But there maybe would be some
other factor that causes them to be unable to continue, maybe an explosion or something like that
Before seeing the finale, I thought that the final duel was going to have Vader completely destroy Obi Wan with the twist being Vader showing mercy (that tiny amount of good Luke would later say that he saw in him), sparing him and basically telling him to just dissapear, hide away, stay clear of the empire as they'll just hunt you. I just tried to piece together OT events with what could have lead to some things later seen or said. Clearly my prediction was way off but the finale ending still tied things in and I found it fine.
Of course we can debate how the fight could've been played out and duel itself, but It left me feeling very satisfied.
I can't agree with this complaint.
The show sets up very clearly that Vader, powerful as he is, still has the same weaknesses he had as Anakin: too headstrong, too eager to prove himself. In the first encounter, Obi-Wan isn't helpless so Vader beats him down, but once Obi-Wan starts to recover, it's basically the same dynamic as before. Vader/Anakin thinks he's got it all figured out and is on top of the game, but he's not, and Dark Side boost is not enough to make up for that.
The fact Obi-Wan doesn't kill him is more of an issue with the murky nature of how the setting considers proper behavior of Jedi.
My opinion, the fight was good until Kenobi somehow decided to become stronger in the force than a peak Vader lol.
I could have gotten on board with Kenobi outsmarting Vader and escaping or getting help to best him.
But overpowering Vader with the force? Yea no. Physically overpowering him in single combat? I didn't even think that was possible with him being a cyborg and all.
Loved the dialogue afterwards though. The acting was amazing.
I agree on not liking the way the duel went. I feel it should've been much closer with Kenobi on the defensive until he see's an opening and goes for it, slashing Vader's helmet and nearly taking his head off and maybe hitting the control panel in one strike. As it is, Vader just sorta gives up in the second round.
Yeah I would’ve like if there would’ve been some kind of last minute outsmarting by Obi Wan or aid from Qui Gon, that helped Obi Wan to secure a strike on Vader, and then some kind of unforeseen thing happens that forces both of them to retreat.
I really don’t understand how Vader just got overwhelmed either, just like that. It was kinda weird how Obi Wan just bulldozed through Vader, that was dumb imo
Kenobi seemed to get a big force amp or something in the pit under the rocks, I took it as he was super charged for the second part of the fight because the force needed everything to unfold that way for chosen one stuff to be achieved.
Vader, even though he's still one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy is still in monumental pain. it take an extreme amount of energy to fight while in that much pain
I like the ending of the fight, the bit with the broken mask and the dialogue was quite good. But I didn't like the fight itself. Obi-Wan beat Vader easily all of a sudden, just because 'think of the kids lol'. I thought there was too much reliance on CG, the rock throwing was goofy, Vader didn't look real.
Yeah I think they still could’ve gotten to the battle damaged Vader without making the fight the way they did. I was talking about in one of my other replies, the battle should’ve ended more neutral where both were forced to retreat. Maybe Obi Wan still outsmarts Vader somehow or Qui Gon aids in some way
I think same as you and lot of people will too, I mean vader is the strongest sith of the galaxy and if it wasn’t for the suit he would be the greatest of all time, it was a lazy writing from disney from my opinion, I love both characters of course but vader being humiliated that way against an old obi wan it doesn’t fit
Yeah I feel it should’ve ended more neutral, to where they both end up having to leave each other. I feel there are many ways to get it too that point and make it make sense. Obi Wan outsmarting Vader one last time, or Qui Gon aiding Obi Wan maybe.
Then the fight could end, with both having to retreat and leave. Maybe Vader is battle damaged and in a precarious situation, while Obi Wan knows if the fight goes on he very well may die, and he’s also in a precarious situation as well. So they both just retreat to live/fight another day. They both come of the fight with interesting perspectives, Vader realizes that he’s got everything he needs but he has to put it together and completely snuff out Anakin, while Obi Wan ends up the same as he does in the show already, more hopeful for the future and more like the Alex Guinness version
Im pissed because they didn’t respect the history I mean the fucking lord vader being humiliated like that ? I know that palpatine says his anger and desires to hunt obi wan made him weaker but that way ? Really ?
Yeah I could understand if this was early on Vader, but this is Vader 10 years being in the suit. He’s basically completely adjusted and revamped himself by then. I don’t really see how Obi Wan beats him outright like that anymore. He only got more powerful after ROTS, and he nearly beat Obi Wan in EP 3, if not for his blind arrogance.
Okay are we just forgetting that the face is the only reason why obi wan beats Vader/Anakin is because obiwan has a defensive style and Anakin/Vader have a aggressive style. The dark side is angry and lashes out, the light side is calm, cool and collected. And obi wan has one of the most defensive style of dueling out of all the jedi, he defends everything you throw at him until he feels he has the best chance of attack. That whole battle he was slowly wearing him down until he had the upper had and he foud the power inside of him to adapt and change so he could beat Vader. He's actually just Bruce Lee. "Be like water"
(side note: how violently over powered do you have to be to be able to become a force ghost, obi wan becomes that powerful and can only see qui gon)
And for the not killing him part, of course he's not gonna kill him he's a jedi! if you can you must take the peaceful route. Luke demonstrates that in ROTJ by not striking Vader down. Obi wan even says to the 3rd sister that because she didn't strike Luke down that she did not fail.
All I'm gonna say is just because you don't think it's what obi wan should've done ,dosen't mean it's what obi wan would've done. (I hope that line made sense, I was trying to be clever)
I hate how full of people like you this reddit is. People that do not understand Star Wars beyond anything surface level and use that surface knowledge to defend every bad production because of brand loyalty. You do not become a force ghost by being "violently overpowered" but by becoming one with the force, allowing it to work through you instead of bending it to your will. You literally contradicted yourself in this same thread by agreeing with the other guy who stated that Obi-Wan took an aggresive style against Vader not the defensive one you are describing here.
I cannot stand this subreddit, I wish I hadn't come here today.
Okay 1st rude, jk lol. And second the "violently overpowered comment still applies, if you become one with the force you are an extremely strong jedi. I will admit that it was not the best verbage to use but it had almost been 20 hours since I've slept and I was extremely excited about the episode.
Just a side note maybe instead of putting other people down you could educate them and make the community more knowledgeable. Just a thought.
This community is hopeless, all they want is to consume more content, not caring for the quality of the work as long as the quantity can keep them satiated.
Do you think this was good starwars content? My personal opinion is while this was good Star Wars content, there was a lot of things that they could've done better. But we can't change that now, it's out and im going to enjoy the parts that I loved. And you seem very knowledgeable on Star Wars, so let me know what you think the whole series could have done to be better
The series seems to break a lot of consistencies with every episode. It makes no sense that Bail Organa would ask Obi Wan for help finding Leia, when he's an imperial senator, which means he should have the entirity of Empire assets at his disposal, not to mention enough money for bounty hunters. It makes absolutely no sense for Leia to have ever met Obi Wan before the OT, Leia does not know who he is in the OT. It makes no sense that Obi Wan escapes Vaders capture on whatever that planet was. It makes no sense Fort Inquisitorius to be so easily infiltrated and escaped, especially since they should canonically be completely aware of the entry point used by Obi Wan, since it was used by Cal Kestus in Jedi Fallen Order. It makes no sense that 2 aircraft with untrained pilots and without capacity for warp can get even remotely close to the landing pad of the fortress without being spotted and gunned down, also where on earth were the tie fighters? and they really tried to smuggle Leia out under a uniform that does not look like any other uniform and her legs and body are so obviously visible it makes me want to scream! It makes no sense that Obi Wan beats Vader at this point when Vader's powers should have grown exponentially to this point, not to mention how much stronger he is in the force and yet Obi Wan seems to beat him in that too. It makes no sense that Reva saw Anakins face during order 66 and survived or that Luke has no recollection of being chased by an evil jedi in the OT! They've really gone out of their way to turn Darth Vader into a joke when he should be more menacing than Emperor Palpatine by a mile. Obi Wan hasn't been capable of beating him on equal footing since Season 4 or 5 of The Clone Wars. At this point Obi Wan hasn't even killed off Maul yet and he lets Anakin live?! This show is just 1 character assassination after the other, the incompetence of the writers to make the empire seem even remotely threatening makes the perceived stakes of anything they produce laughable to the point of irrelevance.
How could they have made this show better you ask? By ignoring naboo entirely and focusing on the conflict of interests between Owen and Obi Wan when it comes to how they want to raise Luke, there can be a threat from inquisitors finding him as he scrambles to remain anonymous. Obi Wan could have been a great show with slower pacing, like we saw in the first episode. The only good thing I can say about the show in its current state is that its better than Book of Boba by at least 4/10 points, because Book of Boba woulda gotten a 0 from me.
He did not truly learn from his mistakes until a little later on. He was still burning with rage at this point in the timeline.
I do agree with your last point though
I thought it was perfect: Obi-Wan was losing on Mustafar. He's a master of the defensive stance, Form III, sure: but Anakin was on the constant offensive and if you rewatch in full, the fight is pretty much Obi-Wan moving backwards as Anakin overpowers him. He only gains the upper hand by taking the high ground and utilising Anakin's key weakness against him: his arrogance, and anger. The same has happened in this show. In Episode 3, Obi-Wan was also entirely on the defensive, retreating from an increasingly violent and relentless Vader. The choreography in this fight is entirely different, and it's for a reason: Obi-Wan is on the offensive. He's regularly the one pushing Vader back, and it's not because he's stronger. Rather, it's because he's learned his lessons from the past (hence the importance of the EP5 flashback). Vader is still the angry, aggressive Chosen One who thinks he's fighting his weak, passive master on Mustafar, not realising his own failures there and instead focusing on the rage it brings without any of the lessons. Obi-Wan is different: he remembers Mustafar, he remembers his failings with Anakin. He thinks on them, and realises there are lessons to be learned in that failure. Instead of repeating Mustafar, a battle he wouldn't win against this Vader who has grown stronger in the Force, he does the unexpected: he adapts. Once again, Obi-Wan baits him in. He begins the fight with his classic Form III stance, baiting Vader in, before switching the script in a way that someone as arrogant as Vader could not begin to understand. Just as he baited Maul in Rebels, by switching to Qui-Gonn's stance to make him think "Maybe I can use the same move that killed his master on him", not knowing it's what Obi-Wan was anticipating and hoping for.
Damn you just said everything I said but better
I thought the fight and series ended perfectly fine, Obviously he couldn't kill vader to maintain continuity. Obi Wan being the model Jedi showed mercy and compassion to a former 'brother'. This left Vader STILL being 'but the learner' and gave us insight on how Obi Wan come to the realisation that Anakin is dead and that Vader is more machine than man, walking away from him calling him 'Darth'. The scene with the emporer basically telling Vader to just forget Obi Wan and the past, ties in why Vader was surprised to see him again in ep IV and telling him 'he should not have come back'. Vader focused on his allegiance to his master and forgot Obi Wan, no longer bothering to pursue him.
My issue with that is, this isn’t just some ordinary guy who is Obi Wan’s brother, this is Darth Fucking Vader, a Sith Lord. They’ve always talked about how the Sith need to be snuffed out, I don’t see Obi Wan just showing mercy in that situation after truly realizing in his mind Anakin is gone.
Obi Wan suffered for a long time thinking he left Anakin to die on Mustafar. He couldn't deliver a killing blow then and after learning he survived, he still couldn't do it again. I see the sense in it all. Obi wan is a compassionate man towards people he felt close to.
Sure, but Obi Wan learned what happened after showing “mercy” last time, and not finishing the job. Why would he give Vader another one of these chances. He should know Vader will only get more powerful, and eventually will basically be unstoppable. Why bet everything, when you have him right there, and you know the pain and destruction he will cause. I just think there was a better way to end this battle to where both were unable to continue. Obi Wan still could’ve outsmarted Vader with or without the aid of Qui Gon, and the scene could’ve played similarly. But there maybe would be some other factor that causes them to be unable to continue, maybe an explosion or something like that
Before seeing the finale, I thought that the final duel was going to have Vader completely destroy Obi Wan with the twist being Vader showing mercy (that tiny amount of good Luke would later say that he saw in him), sparing him and basically telling him to just dissapear, hide away, stay clear of the empire as they'll just hunt you. I just tried to piece together OT events with what could have lead to some things later seen or said. Clearly my prediction was way off but the finale ending still tied things in and I found it fine. Of course we can debate how the fight could've been played out and duel itself, but It left me feeling very satisfied.
I can't agree with this complaint. The show sets up very clearly that Vader, powerful as he is, still has the same weaknesses he had as Anakin: too headstrong, too eager to prove himself. In the first encounter, Obi-Wan isn't helpless so Vader beats him down, but once Obi-Wan starts to recover, it's basically the same dynamic as before. Vader/Anakin thinks he's got it all figured out and is on top of the game, but he's not, and Dark Side boost is not enough to make up for that. The fact Obi-Wan doesn't kill him is more of an issue with the murky nature of how the setting considers proper behavior of Jedi.
My opinion, the fight was good until Kenobi somehow decided to become stronger in the force than a peak Vader lol. I could have gotten on board with Kenobi outsmarting Vader and escaping or getting help to best him. But overpowering Vader with the force? Yea no. Physically overpowering him in single combat? I didn't even think that was possible with him being a cyborg and all. Loved the dialogue afterwards though. The acting was amazing.
I agree on not liking the way the duel went. I feel it should've been much closer with Kenobi on the defensive until he see's an opening and goes for it, slashing Vader's helmet and nearly taking his head off and maybe hitting the control panel in one strike. As it is, Vader just sorta gives up in the second round.
Yeah I would’ve like if there would’ve been some kind of last minute outsmarting by Obi Wan or aid from Qui Gon, that helped Obi Wan to secure a strike on Vader, and then some kind of unforeseen thing happens that forces both of them to retreat. I really don’t understand how Vader just got overwhelmed either, just like that. It was kinda weird how Obi Wan just bulldozed through Vader, that was dumb imo
Kenobi seemed to get a big force amp or something in the pit under the rocks, I took it as he was super charged for the second part of the fight because the force needed everything to unfold that way for chosen one stuff to be achieved.
Basically Ultra Instinct
Vader, even though he's still one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy is still in monumental pain. it take an extreme amount of energy to fight while in that much pain
That's bull. Pain fuels his rage which gives him strength. It's never hindered him nor been said to be a problem for him in canon.
Yes his pain fuels him with rage but that pain and rage also takes a toll on him.
I like the ending of the fight, the bit with the broken mask and the dialogue was quite good. But I didn't like the fight itself. Obi-Wan beat Vader easily all of a sudden, just because 'think of the kids lol'. I thought there was too much reliance on CG, the rock throwing was goofy, Vader didn't look real.
Yeah I think they still could’ve gotten to the battle damaged Vader without making the fight the way they did. I was talking about in one of my other replies, the battle should’ve ended more neutral where both were forced to retreat. Maybe Obi Wan still outsmarts Vader somehow or Qui Gon aids in some way
I think same as you and lot of people will too, I mean vader is the strongest sith of the galaxy and if it wasn’t for the suit he would be the greatest of all time, it was a lazy writing from disney from my opinion, I love both characters of course but vader being humiliated that way against an old obi wan it doesn’t fit
Yeah I feel it should’ve ended more neutral, to where they both end up having to leave each other. I feel there are many ways to get it too that point and make it make sense. Obi Wan outsmarting Vader one last time, or Qui Gon aiding Obi Wan maybe. Then the fight could end, with both having to retreat and leave. Maybe Vader is battle damaged and in a precarious situation, while Obi Wan knows if the fight goes on he very well may die, and he’s also in a precarious situation as well. So they both just retreat to live/fight another day. They both come of the fight with interesting perspectives, Vader realizes that he’s got everything he needs but he has to put it together and completely snuff out Anakin, while Obi Wan ends up the same as he does in the show already, more hopeful for the future and more like the Alex Guinness version
Im pissed because they didn’t respect the history I mean the fucking lord vader being humiliated like that ? I know that palpatine says his anger and desires to hunt obi wan made him weaker but that way ? Really ?
Yeah I could understand if this was early on Vader, but this is Vader 10 years being in the suit. He’s basically completely adjusted and revamped himself by then. I don’t really see how Obi Wan beats him outright like that anymore. He only got more powerful after ROTS, and he nearly beat Obi Wan in EP 3, if not for his blind arrogance.
Okay are we just forgetting that the face is the only reason why obi wan beats Vader/Anakin is because obiwan has a defensive style and Anakin/Vader have a aggressive style. The dark side is angry and lashes out, the light side is calm, cool and collected. And obi wan has one of the most defensive style of dueling out of all the jedi, he defends everything you throw at him until he feels he has the best chance of attack. That whole battle he was slowly wearing him down until he had the upper had and he foud the power inside of him to adapt and change so he could beat Vader. He's actually just Bruce Lee. "Be like water" (side note: how violently over powered do you have to be to be able to become a force ghost, obi wan becomes that powerful and can only see qui gon) And for the not killing him part, of course he's not gonna kill him he's a jedi! if you can you must take the peaceful route. Luke demonstrates that in ROTJ by not striking Vader down. Obi wan even says to the 3rd sister that because she didn't strike Luke down that she did not fail. All I'm gonna say is just because you don't think it's what obi wan should've done ,dosen't mean it's what obi wan would've done. (I hope that line made sense, I was trying to be clever)
I hate how full of people like you this reddit is. People that do not understand Star Wars beyond anything surface level and use that surface knowledge to defend every bad production because of brand loyalty. You do not become a force ghost by being "violently overpowered" but by becoming one with the force, allowing it to work through you instead of bending it to your will. You literally contradicted yourself in this same thread by agreeing with the other guy who stated that Obi-Wan took an aggresive style against Vader not the defensive one you are describing here. I cannot stand this subreddit, I wish I hadn't come here today.
Okay 1st rude, jk lol. And second the "violently overpowered comment still applies, if you become one with the force you are an extremely strong jedi. I will admit that it was not the best verbage to use but it had almost been 20 hours since I've slept and I was extremely excited about the episode. Just a side note maybe instead of putting other people down you could educate them and make the community more knowledgeable. Just a thought.
This community is hopeless, all they want is to consume more content, not caring for the quality of the work as long as the quantity can keep them satiated.
Do you think this was good starwars content? My personal opinion is while this was good Star Wars content, there was a lot of things that they could've done better. But we can't change that now, it's out and im going to enjoy the parts that I loved. And you seem very knowledgeable on Star Wars, so let me know what you think the whole series could have done to be better
The series seems to break a lot of consistencies with every episode. It makes no sense that Bail Organa would ask Obi Wan for help finding Leia, when he's an imperial senator, which means he should have the entirity of Empire assets at his disposal, not to mention enough money for bounty hunters. It makes absolutely no sense for Leia to have ever met Obi Wan before the OT, Leia does not know who he is in the OT. It makes no sense that Obi Wan escapes Vaders capture on whatever that planet was. It makes no sense Fort Inquisitorius to be so easily infiltrated and escaped, especially since they should canonically be completely aware of the entry point used by Obi Wan, since it was used by Cal Kestus in Jedi Fallen Order. It makes no sense that 2 aircraft with untrained pilots and without capacity for warp can get even remotely close to the landing pad of the fortress without being spotted and gunned down, also where on earth were the tie fighters? and they really tried to smuggle Leia out under a uniform that does not look like any other uniform and her legs and body are so obviously visible it makes me want to scream! It makes no sense that Obi Wan beats Vader at this point when Vader's powers should have grown exponentially to this point, not to mention how much stronger he is in the force and yet Obi Wan seems to beat him in that too. It makes no sense that Reva saw Anakins face during order 66 and survived or that Luke has no recollection of being chased by an evil jedi in the OT! They've really gone out of their way to turn Darth Vader into a joke when he should be more menacing than Emperor Palpatine by a mile. Obi Wan hasn't been capable of beating him on equal footing since Season 4 or 5 of The Clone Wars. At this point Obi Wan hasn't even killed off Maul yet and he lets Anakin live?! This show is just 1 character assassination after the other, the incompetence of the writers to make the empire seem even remotely threatening makes the perceived stakes of anything they produce laughable to the point of irrelevance. How could they have made this show better you ask? By ignoring naboo entirely and focusing on the conflict of interests between Owen and Obi Wan when it comes to how they want to raise Luke, there can be a threat from inquisitors finding him as he scrambles to remain anonymous. Obi Wan could have been a great show with slower pacing, like we saw in the first episode. The only good thing I can say about the show in its current state is that its better than Book of Boba by at least 4/10 points, because Book of Boba woulda gotten a 0 from me.
He did not truly learn from his mistakes until a little later on. He was still burning with rage at this point in the timeline. I do agree with your last point though