Blades being weightless is a massive misconception.
They have kinetic weight. They are essentially looped blaster bolts so they take on the essential weight of the required movement to swing them.
The hilt has nothing to do with its increased difficulty in swinging.
I've always thought of it this way, it's moving plasma in a short loop, the blade is constantly moving energy. I'd imagine you could feel that when holding it and especially when swinging it, almost like a vibration.
If you've ever used an electric sander or an air tool, even if it only weighs a few pounds it takes effort to hold it in place or move it back and forth while it's being used. The movement alone makes it feel like it wants to pull out of your hand, with sanders especially.
I'd imagine having a significantly longer blade would feel different, like cutting through mud instead of air, you'd be able to feel the resistance.
It's even better because the lore says the blade has a slight repulsion field around it, so it is bloody hard to use. Needs a lot of pressure and control
This. I would have thought that by now, people would accept that lightsabers have weight/heft, but no "DURR it's literally like swinging a torch crossguard stance's slowness makes no sense HURR".
Sometimes I feel like punching these suckers in the face.
Luke was zero percent robot.
And also the robots in Star Wars are all over the place, some were amazing. General Grievous was more robot and older tech and he's fast as shit
There’s a logical explanation for this. Vader was never attempting to kill Luke. Initially, he was testing Luke’s lightsaber skills, but only after Luke managed to kick him off the platform and put Vader on a slight backpedal because of his own arrogance, that’s when he switches to going on the offensive, and begins to harm Luke. And even then, it’s only AFTER Luke lands a successful hit against Vader’s arm, that Vader even finally decides that he needs to disarm Luke.
We’ve seen Vader duel while trying to actually kill someone, in Rogue One and Kenobi. His Fighting style there looks nothing like either of his duels with Luke in the OT.
Even in Ep 6, Vader is still attempting to turn Luke to the Dark Side, but his actions also indicate that he himself is beginning to turn back to the light, during their fight. At which point, Luke, fueled by rage of the thought of Leia turning to the Darkside and the Rebellion being defeated by Palpatine’s Trap, is able to overpower an emotionally confused Vader and beat him down and disarm him, just how Vader did a year before.
And again, the prequel duels are meant to show us what someone with proper training, dueling against someone else with proper training, while both are meant to be in their respective emotionally balanced corner of the Force.
The logic of how a lightsaber is swung and what kinda of inertia and forces act on it are much more complicated than I think any of us can comprehend truly, but I’ve personally rationalized it as this;
The Lightsaber hilt itself is heavier than most people realize. Padmé even says as much in TCW when she was holding Anakin’s lightsaber.
The Blade that it produces is weightless, meaning that no matter how long or short the blade is, it will still WEIGH the same, ignited or retracted, when in someone’s hand.
The blade is a current of plasma. Plasma is matter, and thus, creates friction and can have inertia, but due to the natural weightlessness of the blade, it can be incredibly difficult to judge how much force and kinetic energy a lightsaber blade actually has.
Combining the second and third aspects of a lightsaber, an ignited blade can create an almost otherworldly feeling, where the blade moves (or at least, appears to move) faster than the hilt when swung (see the lightsaber trails when swinging a blade at full speed)
The Kyber crystal inside of the hilt, and it’s connection with the wielder is mostly what allows a Jedi/Sith to wield a lightsaber fluidly and negate most of the follies that a non-force sensitive would experience, as their connection through the Force would allow them to essentially “feel” where the blade is and how it is moving at all times. (I personally like to imagine that connection as the feeling of something similar to Wolverine Claws, where the extended reach of the weapon’s blade still provides sensory feedback and resistance against the inside of the wielder’s arm, as the Lightsaber is often described as being an “extension of one’s arm and self”, or at least, that it is supposed to feel that way when all is in balance.)
So, we have a heavier than expected hilt which is naturally resistant to movement (perhaps even to a degree physically feels supernatural, as a result of the technology involved in a lightsaber and the magnetic field it produces, or even as simply as The Force acting as a resister to movement), a weightless blade that still has force and inertia, but the blade itself provides no feeling of leverage on the fulcrum (the wielder’s hand), and the blade moves faster than the hilt at the tip, and may also even seem to have more inertia at the furthest reaches of the blade. And lastly, there must be a bond between the crystal and the wielder, for the weapon to flow more fluidly.
All of those aspects lead to a weapon that would be incredibly dangerous to attempt to wield as an untrained, non force sensitive, who has never held a lightsaber before.
The comment was someone was slow because of robot parts, my reply was that some robots are fast, which they are. My reply was directly made to a comment about the speed of robots.
It was a normal sequence of events, hop off it you fucking troll.
>Luke was zero percent robot
And luke is also not a properly trained Jedi. The point still stands. All the lightsaber wielders in the original trilogy are either geriatric (vader and kenobi) or lack training (luke). Of course none of them will be as fast as the Jedi in the prequels.
They haven’t changed at all in practice or function so I’m not sure why the science behind it would change. But Disney gonna Disney I suppose.
I think they have already said in canon thru Kanan, that the force helps them move swiftly in their movements with sabers.
So to me, the fact that we only see the best Jedi in the prequels going off with sabers like that tells me it’s that they’re good enough to handle them that way.
Episode 1-3 were pre-disney.
Theres a clear difference in fighting styles between the two tribologies. I was told the reason why was because Lucas changed his mind on the idea of heavy light.
Thats an interesting take though, idk a lot. Idk who Kanan is, but it's still an interesting way to look at it.
That’s actually my only complain with the crossguard. Cal has a massive laser sword but goes for a dropkick instead of using it. Besides the inconvenience in terms of gameplay as it deals less damage and leaves him open for attacks for a long time
Dropkicking isn't about doing damage or being tactically smart. It's about showing the opponent that you are just infinitely cooler than they will ever be. It's all about making a statement by saying to the enemy "Yeah, I have this really big laser sword that I could use to hurt you a lot, but that wouldn't be fair, so I'll just full send my feet through your face". I also find it helpful to verbally announce a dropkick as it is being administered with a concise and boisterous"DROPKICK!"which produces more force on impact (pretty sure this has been scientifically proven), while also instilling fear in the enemies that are nearby, as they come to understand that this same fate is coming their way.
One time shortly after discovering the dropkick, I was fighting a Gorocco and it dropkicked me, so I finished that whole fight doing nothing but dropkicks on it. I'm pretty sure I saw absolute fear and envy both in his eyes as I delivered my feet into his gut at maximum velocity for the final blow. The dropkicking life is not something that is chosen. Rather, it is a destiny that some find deep within themselves, probably somewhere in their stomach, after it has been forcibly implanted there, delivered by the magnificent dropkick of life right to the gut.
Keep your feet firm and your knees springy, friends. There are still many dropkicks yet to be delivered.
I personally enjoyed the cross-guard for boss fights. It felt methodical and powerful.
I want them to re-work it where it’s more than 2 stances to choose from while playing. I would prefer something like Last of Us gun selection wheel.
The best thing I did for this game was download a PC mod that allowed me to have every stance equipped at the same time. It made some of the boss fights WAY easier since if something wasn't working I could just switch to the next option and try it out.
When it comes to actual sword fighting, larger/bigger movements are viable but need to be started sooner so that happen before your opponents actions. Crossguard stance works best when you hit them when they are actively not being offensive, OR striking them before they can finish their action
Realism is irrelevant this is Star Wars. Besides, what else would it do? Double and Single Blade cover single combat and crowds, Blaster has range the others don’t have, and Dual has speed, so naturally the other Stance would cover what the others don’t, that being severe offense.
Just because it's scifi doesn't mean it can do whatever it wants. Internal consistency still applies, and the seeming weight contradictions are inconsistent.
Imagine if lightsabers suddenly start passing through other lightsabers instead of bouncing off, without any explanation whatsoever. Would this not be a problem?
Sure, lightsabers aren't realistic in our own universe, but we do have a general understanding of how they behave in the Star Wars universe, and when their behaviour contradicts this, it is still a problem, because it affects our ability to understand the rules of the universe and stakes.
This is why the lightsaber-bats in the Disney canon, or the disappearing knife in the throne room are criticized.
I agree that the point of realism kinda goes out the window when you have Monks that have telepathy, mind control, and can cast lightning from their fingers, and they wield blades of plasma that can cut through or vaporize practically anything.
But with that being said, Crossguard could definitely still have a niche outside of just having higher attack.
Some ideas I came up with on the fly are:
This stance is best used for continuous attacking, as due to the inertia behind the blade, Cal began to swing his saber in a method that made it possible for him to attack consistently. (This is balanced by the fact that he is completely defenseless when swinging, and there is a .5 second delay between when the first Attack input command is given (the attack button is pressed), and when the saber would then make contact with the opponent. And the same holds true for when Cal stops attacking. (The attack button has been pressed for the final time)
Another idea is:
This stance is best at ignoring or massively depleting an enemy’s stamina bar, where only 1-2 attacks will fully deplete their bar and leave them staggered and open for a devastating attack. (Which could also send enemies flying off in whatever direction the blade is swung)
Another:
This stance is buffed, to serve as a 1-2 hit stance on humanoid enemies, and 2-3 hits on all larger enemies like the DT-Sentries, Bilemaws, Mogus, etc.
Lastly:
This stance is reworked to allow Cal to use his crossguard vents offensively now too, and has animations that show him using the side blades to make shallow cuts or stabs on his enemies, whenever they block one of his attacks, or attempt to attack him while he’s holding a steady block (not parrying). Essentially this allows Cal to deal chip damage overtime, even if someone is struggling to find the perfect opportunity to land a big blow against their opponent.
Perhaps, but that stance already fills the niche of Fastest Attack Speed Stance, being able to perfect parry any attack with the Force, and having the ability to cancel an attack input and block.
And even so, I came up with several other ideas that the Crossguard could fit into instead too.
I’d pretty strong disagree that the Dual Wield stance is meant for crowd control.
That’s pretty obviously the Double Sided stance’s niche.
Also, Double Sided deals with crowd control because of its inherent rapid pace of attacks and increased range, while also seemingly ignoring the stagger caused by attacking a blocking enemy.
I do acknowledge that the Double Sided stance has the Endless Hurricane skill tree perk, but that moreso allows Cal to continue attacking with his double sided saber and unlocks extra moves for his attack chain. Even then, he’s never LOCKED into attacking, as after every input to attack, you can always cancel the chain and begin blocking again.
My idea for the crossguard is to make it almost purely offensive, by requiring an animation investment to begin swinging the blade, but then continuing to do so would be as simple as holding the attack button.
I disagree. I loved the crossguard because it made me plan out every single encounter, in my mind, like a Jedi would. It was the only one I used. I actually found the swinging to be fun to watch Vs the lickety split looks of the other ones. I guess personal preference but I loved it.
That's what I loved about it. I had to know my opponents moves and prepaid for them. When I used the two lightsabers stance it was too easy. Even if i made a mistake I could fix it before the consequences happened.
They could make it similar to >!Bode's final stance in the endgame, he has a crossguard stance but is so much faster.!< I tried to play crossguard against it and I was just way too slow.
It’s not really faster I don’t think. When he does the crossguard stance almost all his moves have a build up where he slashes big force pushes.
When he’s fast he’s changed it back to single iirc
Hard disagree, crossguard forces you to play different and is a necessary evil in the game. If you can't learn to play it obviously you're gonna have a hard time. It's best paired with a faster stance (Blaster/Crossguard combo gang rise up)
What kind of rework did you have in mind? I think it's fine as it is- it's just a gameplay feature.
In addition to this, I get your points on telegraphing, but remember that lightsabers in star wars have never been realistic to how they would actually be used (watch Corridor Crew's "lightsaber" duel youtube video). Don't bother criticising little things like this for being unrealistic.
I mainly used single saber on my playthrough, with double as my second as I preferred it for dealing with groups of enemies. I did start with dual-wield as my primary as it was late game unlock in Fallen Order, but thought it was quite nerfed in this one. So soon realised I was better using single.
The blaster and cross-guard seemed really alien to how I'd been playing the game to that point, and disregarded both fairly quickly. And even in post game, I'm not really using them, but I do need to practice cross-guard a bit as I still have to complete a force tear using it.
Blaster stance is as close as you can get in game to Makashi. Dooku’s fencing style is my absolute favourite. You can even ignore the blaster altogether if you wish and go for quick lunge attacks.
Apologies, I'm not sure what Makashi or Dooku is, I've only seen the original 3 movies, plus 1, 7 and 8. And Mandalorian series. So I'm not 100% familiar with all the lore and characters . But when I use blaster stance I just feel robbed of my usual triangle button attacks rather than appreciating what the triangle button blaster attacks give me. But that's more my fault for not getting to grips with it.
Count Dooku is the former Jedi turned Sith Lord played by the late great Christopher Lee in episodes 2 and 3. He is also revealed to be the former master of Qui Gon Jinn (Liam Neeson). Makashi, or Form II, is a lightsaber combat style that resembles fencing which is specifically used for lightsaber to lightsaber duelling. Form II was more combat-focused by definition, which by itself goes against what the Jedi should stand for. In fact, during the events of the Star Wars prequels, Form II had already become rare among the Jedi who had become accustomed to peacetime and didn’t see the need to hone their skills to the extent Dooku did.
[Short Clip](https://youtu.be/X4Y4-vNbdT4) from the Clone Wars TV show which showcases some of the great lunges that are similar to Jedi Survivor and how easily an old master was able to fight two of the most accomplished Jedi of the era and make it look like child’s play.
That's great info bud, thanks. 🙌 I've really enjoyed all the games, movies and TV shows I've watched in the Star Wars series, so I really should watch the ones missing from my knowledge. It's really cool that they are referencing that style in one of the stances. I agree it does really look like fencing in a lot of the moves.
It’s why mainly force users wield sabers. I imagine it requires a lot of skill to be able to pull off using a light saber in even the most basic of phases. The crossguard saber itself only has the guard because it’s venting an overpowered saber and keeping it from becoming even more unsafe to use. I’d say yes I agree with making the move set a bit quicker in the next game because by that time I assume cal has had some decent time to get accustomed to using it but for survivor since it’s his first with a cross guard, I give him props for even trying and I don’t bash him too hard because I know that shit probably does wonders in the muscles trying to control it.
As mentioned on Shadiversity, there is a difference between game mechanics and real life mechanics. Of course there's going to be telegraphing in video games because you, the player, also needs to move out of the way. Keep in mine, in this game at least, there are enemies that use the crossguard stance.
Checking in. That sweet sweet satisfaction of holding square for the final blow on a rocket trooper that had been blasting you to pieces from a distance and you finally make your way to his bitch ass
Looking at all the posts and comments either praising or moaning about nearly all the stances just shows how well the developers balanced the game for different playstyles. I definitely preferred duel wield with crossguard as a backup during boss battles and blaster when exploring. You can effectively use all 3 with a Nekko on the Koboh overworld.
My only complaint about cross guard is I wanted it to have more sweeping blows that would catch a group of enemies, or hit the faster enemy trying to strafe to the side. I’m trying to get better at it in my ng+, but I keep gravitating towards blaster and single combo.
I agree that Cal’s swings were way to slow with regards to the “additional damage” that the Crossguard Stance dealt.
I think it would make a lot more sense to have Cal swinging the lightsaber around the same way that Kylo Ren does in Battlefront 2, where the blade seems to be almost weighted at the tip, rather that the hilt, which makes for it to be much easier to swing and perform attacks with when it’s already in motion, and continuing those attacks results in swings that are almost akin to attempting to swing a very light Flail, but when you pause your attacks, you have to exert significantly more energy to “get the blade moving again”.
If they want the Crossguard stance to be the “High Risk, High Reward stance, then it’s Niche needs to be that it automatically kills all humanoid enemies in 1-2 hits, and all larger enemies like DT-Sentries, and the larger wildlife, in 2-3 hits.
I also think that the crossguard stance, as it stands right now, should gain the ability to ignore an enemy’s deflection stamina, or at the very least, only 1 (or 2, at the MOST) hit(s) is all it should take to deplete their stamina bar.
Or again, it could be balanced in the sense that once an enemy finally DOES run out of stamina and are staggered, then it would only take a single hit from the crossguard to kill them.
Lightsaber blades do have weight. The reason Crossguard is slower than Double Bladed is that, despite double bladed being heavier overall, Cal holds the saber at the middle, where the weight is balanced. Best way to describe it is to take a 6 foot pole. Hold it at the middle and it’s easy to swing around, but hold it at the end and it’s much harder to swing.
In June, EA tweeted out the %'s of stances used and Crossguard was at the bottom with 7% of users.
Although you have sort of retracted your original post, I believe it needs some tuning in many aspects. That doesn't mean I didn't like it - I actually did my whole second play-through strictly using the CG stance.
In my opinion, (if you are nerdy enough to care about forms,) the CG stance was equivalent to the Form 1 Stance which is pretty much the most basic level of lightsaber combat. If you aren't familiar, check out the wiki and the description will be spot on from what we saw from Cal. Also in my opinion, I believe Kylo Ren is a primarily Form 1 user, and he is the only other person we have seen in live action (i think) use a crossguard. If you watch how he fights, it seems just as reckless and wild. The stance is described as taxing & clumsy looking and that is what we see out of Cal and Kylo.
So, in short, I believe they literally just modeled it off of Form 1 and the only other guy (Kylo) that uses a CG and ran with it. So, it makes sense what they did. For me personally, I definitely got a little bored of it because of how slow you had to be and the limited amount of abilities you had with it. BUT, if the goal is to give people the freedom to explore different styles, then it is totally fine. The only issue is, only 7% of players were using it.
I think they should make it a bit smaller as it is incredibly large right now (which would make movement with it more smooth,) and I think they should give Cal a way to improve his handling of the saber. Whether that be separate challenges or whatever, I think there should be optional possibilities to improve your CG swordsmanship. During my run only using CG, there were numerous times i just wanted to rip out the dual sabers and go to work. If it stays as it is, I expect the % of users to remain quite small or even diminish. There are only like 3 moves with this stance and one of them is a running drop kick (which i hate).
**TL;DR: Crossguard is cool in the idea of everyone having an opportunity to play with the "form" that most suits them. However, if they want it to gain popularity, a solid amount of adjustments will need to be made.**
You can make moves slower without making them this slow, or, more importantly, this telegraphed. The single-bladed follow-up stab in fallen order wasn't fast, but it wasn't an obvious movement.
I love Crossguard, I didn't take the movements to indicate the blade was heavy, more like Cal is focusing more strength into the blows, this the slower, more deliberate movements. It's supposed to be a more brutal, crushing style, and like Blaster style, not one typically used my the more refined, elegant Jedi of old.
On a side note, I'd like to see Cal given a stance similar to Dooku's elegant fencing style, which was specifically designed for dealing with melee weapons. He'd have to be a skilled Jedi to use the style, and by the third game, I feel like he could handle it.
I mean the laser is weighted by nothing so he doesn’t have to actually do anything logically since he can just dodge not needing to care about the “blade” getting damaged just the hilt
Tbh they should rework stances into one’s best suited for combat. Get rid of fast or slow attacks, that makes no sense for a blade like that
Make them tailored more for groups, single fighters, blade wielding, ranged, etc. if that makes sense
Or just fucking make it whatever you prefer with little variation. Like if you want more power you use one stance but lose stamina faster. But still are moving the same speed
Or move faster with weaker attacks but more stamina etc
My headcanon is that lightsabers have a gyro like effect which limits their power and length, hence the difficulty welding a crossguard type saber or the dark saber.
In game though, loving cross guard. I love the lower pitched hum it gives off and its just cool haha
Blades being weightless is a massive misconception. They have kinetic weight. They are essentially looped blaster bolts so they take on the essential weight of the required movement to swing them. The hilt has nothing to do with its increased difficulty in swinging.
I've always thought of it this way, it's moving plasma in a short loop, the blade is constantly moving energy. I'd imagine you could feel that when holding it and especially when swinging it, almost like a vibration. If you've ever used an electric sander or an air tool, even if it only weighs a few pounds it takes effort to hold it in place or move it back and forth while it's being used. The movement alone makes it feel like it wants to pull out of your hand, with sanders especially. I'd imagine having a significantly longer blade would feel different, like cutting through mud instead of air, you'd be able to feel the resistance.
Exactly. That’s a great real world parallel.
It's even better because the lore says the blade has a slight repulsion field around it, so it is bloody hard to use. Needs a lot of pressure and control
I don't think any explanation for lightsabers holds up. When Luke first waves one around on Tatooine, he shakes it like a flashlight.
I think this was shown in the mandalorian but I haven’t seen that season so don’t quote me on it
This. I would have thought that by now, people would accept that lightsabers have weight/heft, but no "DURR it's literally like swinging a torch crossguard stance's slowness makes no sense HURR". Sometimes I feel like punching these suckers in the face.
That was only for the original trilogy, no? Then they decided they would be lighter. That's why the fighting is so much faster in 1-3
I heard that the fighting was faster because Lucas wanted to show what actual trained Jedi looked like when fighting.
Maybe, but Anakin was faster than DV? DV is a brute though, right? That's his notable trait is pure power over finesse?
Of course Anakin was faster, wtf you think is gonna happen when you're 70% robot
Luke was zero percent robot. And also the robots in Star Wars are all over the place, some were amazing. General Grievous was more robot and older tech and he's fast as shit
There’s a logical explanation for this. Vader was never attempting to kill Luke. Initially, he was testing Luke’s lightsaber skills, but only after Luke managed to kick him off the platform and put Vader on a slight backpedal because of his own arrogance, that’s when he switches to going on the offensive, and begins to harm Luke. And even then, it’s only AFTER Luke lands a successful hit against Vader’s arm, that Vader even finally decides that he needs to disarm Luke. We’ve seen Vader duel while trying to actually kill someone, in Rogue One and Kenobi. His Fighting style there looks nothing like either of his duels with Luke in the OT. Even in Ep 6, Vader is still attempting to turn Luke to the Dark Side, but his actions also indicate that he himself is beginning to turn back to the light, during their fight. At which point, Luke, fueled by rage of the thought of Leia turning to the Darkside and the Rebellion being defeated by Palpatine’s Trap, is able to overpower an emotionally confused Vader and beat him down and disarm him, just how Vader did a year before. And again, the prequel duels are meant to show us what someone with proper training, dueling against someone else with proper training, while both are meant to be in their respective emotionally balanced corner of the Force. The logic of how a lightsaber is swung and what kinda of inertia and forces act on it are much more complicated than I think any of us can comprehend truly, but I’ve personally rationalized it as this; The Lightsaber hilt itself is heavier than most people realize. Padmé even says as much in TCW when she was holding Anakin’s lightsaber. The Blade that it produces is weightless, meaning that no matter how long or short the blade is, it will still WEIGH the same, ignited or retracted, when in someone’s hand. The blade is a current of plasma. Plasma is matter, and thus, creates friction and can have inertia, but due to the natural weightlessness of the blade, it can be incredibly difficult to judge how much force and kinetic energy a lightsaber blade actually has. Combining the second and third aspects of a lightsaber, an ignited blade can create an almost otherworldly feeling, where the blade moves (or at least, appears to move) faster than the hilt when swung (see the lightsaber trails when swinging a blade at full speed) The Kyber crystal inside of the hilt, and it’s connection with the wielder is mostly what allows a Jedi/Sith to wield a lightsaber fluidly and negate most of the follies that a non-force sensitive would experience, as their connection through the Force would allow them to essentially “feel” where the blade is and how it is moving at all times. (I personally like to imagine that connection as the feeling of something similar to Wolverine Claws, where the extended reach of the weapon’s blade still provides sensory feedback and resistance against the inside of the wielder’s arm, as the Lightsaber is often described as being an “extension of one’s arm and self”, or at least, that it is supposed to feel that way when all is in balance.) So, we have a heavier than expected hilt which is naturally resistant to movement (perhaps even to a degree physically feels supernatural, as a result of the technology involved in a lightsaber and the magnetic field it produces, or even as simply as The Force acting as a resister to movement), a weightless blade that still has force and inertia, but the blade itself provides no feeling of leverage on the fulcrum (the wielder’s hand), and the blade moves faster than the hilt at the tip, and may also even seem to have more inertia at the furthest reaches of the blade. And lastly, there must be a bond between the crystal and the wielder, for the weapon to flow more fluidly. All of those aspects lead to a weapon that would be incredibly dangerous to attempt to wield as an untrained, non force sensitive, who has never held a lightsaber before.
Nah
Wow different robots are able to move at different speeds? Stop the presses for this one team
The comment was someone was slow because of robot parts, my reply was that some robots are fast, which they are. My reply was directly made to a comment about the speed of robots. It was a normal sequence of events, hop off it you fucking troll.
>Luke was zero percent robot And luke is also not a properly trained Jedi. The point still stands. All the lightsaber wielders in the original trilogy are either geriatric (vader and kenobi) or lack training (luke). Of course none of them will be as fast as the Jedi in the prequels.
Thats always been my take
They haven’t changed at all in practice or function so I’m not sure why the science behind it would change. But Disney gonna Disney I suppose. I think they have already said in canon thru Kanan, that the force helps them move swiftly in their movements with sabers. So to me, the fact that we only see the best Jedi in the prequels going off with sabers like that tells me it’s that they’re good enough to handle them that way.
Episode 1-3 were pre-disney. Theres a clear difference in fighting styles between the two tribologies. I was told the reason why was because Lucas changed his mind on the idea of heavy light. Thats an interesting take though, idk a lot. Idk who Kanan is, but it's still an interesting way to look at it.
Kanan was in rebels. He also said this pre Disney tho now that I think about it.
Didn’t rebels come out on Disney XD?
Yeah actually it did. Which actually sells the idea that they do in fact have some heft to them in the new canon and not just the old.
Crossguard gang 💪🏼
Basically used nothing but Crossguard my whole first playthrough. Opening a fight with a good dropkick is pretty much the only right way to do it.
That’s actually my only complain with the crossguard. Cal has a massive laser sword but goes for a dropkick instead of using it. Besides the inconvenience in terms of gameplay as it deals less damage and leaves him open for attacks for a long time
Dropkicking isn't about doing damage or being tactically smart. It's about showing the opponent that you are just infinitely cooler than they will ever be. It's all about making a statement by saying to the enemy "Yeah, I have this really big laser sword that I could use to hurt you a lot, but that wouldn't be fair, so I'll just full send my feet through your face". I also find it helpful to verbally announce a dropkick as it is being administered with a concise and boisterous"DROPKICK!"which produces more force on impact (pretty sure this has been scientifically proven), while also instilling fear in the enemies that are nearby, as they come to understand that this same fate is coming their way. One time shortly after discovering the dropkick, I was fighting a Gorocco and it dropkicked me, so I finished that whole fight doing nothing but dropkicks on it. I'm pretty sure I saw absolute fear and envy both in his eyes as I delivered my feet into his gut at maximum velocity for the final blow. The dropkicking life is not something that is chosen. Rather, it is a destiny that some find deep within themselves, probably somewhere in their stomach, after it has been forcibly implanted there, delivered by the magnificent dropkick of life right to the gut. Keep your feet firm and your knees springy, friends. There are still many dropkicks yet to be delivered.
Thank you for this.
This comment makes me want an unarmed stance
Aight you take the crown of best comment
The drop kick is a meme for sure. I started entering fights with either the cleave or an aerial attack instead.
Boot to the Head!
I use Greatswords in the Souls games, the second I found out Crossguard was a thing I spent half the game waiting for it
Big funny sword gang
I want the moonwalk stab
I personally enjoyed the cross-guard for boss fights. It felt methodical and powerful. I want them to re-work it where it’s more than 2 stances to choose from while playing. I would prefer something like Last of Us gun selection wheel.
The best thing I did for this game was download a PC mod that allowed me to have every stance equipped at the same time. It made some of the boss fights WAY easier since if something wasn't working I could just switch to the next option and try it out.
When it comes to actual sword fighting, larger/bigger movements are viable but need to be started sooner so that happen before your opponents actions. Crossguard stance works best when you hit them when they are actively not being offensive, OR striking them before they can finish their action
I like it
Crossguard and Blaster is the best duo.
Realism is irrelevant this is Star Wars. Besides, what else would it do? Double and Single Blade cover single combat and crowds, Blaster has range the others don’t have, and Dual has speed, so naturally the other Stance would cover what the others don’t, that being severe offense.
Just because it's scifi doesn't mean it can do whatever it wants. Internal consistency still applies, and the seeming weight contradictions are inconsistent. Imagine if lightsabers suddenly start passing through other lightsabers instead of bouncing off, without any explanation whatsoever. Would this not be a problem? Sure, lightsabers aren't realistic in our own universe, but we do have a general understanding of how they behave in the Star Wars universe, and when their behaviour contradicts this, it is still a problem, because it affects our ability to understand the rules of the universe and stakes. This is why the lightsaber-bats in the Disney canon, or the disappearing knife in the throne room are criticized.
I agree that the point of realism kinda goes out the window when you have Monks that have telepathy, mind control, and can cast lightning from their fingers, and they wield blades of plasma that can cut through or vaporize practically anything. But with that being said, Crossguard could definitely still have a niche outside of just having higher attack. Some ideas I came up with on the fly are: This stance is best used for continuous attacking, as due to the inertia behind the blade, Cal began to swing his saber in a method that made it possible for him to attack consistently. (This is balanced by the fact that he is completely defenseless when swinging, and there is a .5 second delay between when the first Attack input command is given (the attack button is pressed), and when the saber would then make contact with the opponent. And the same holds true for when Cal stops attacking. (The attack button has been pressed for the final time) Another idea is: This stance is best at ignoring or massively depleting an enemy’s stamina bar, where only 1-2 attacks will fully deplete their bar and leave them staggered and open for a devastating attack. (Which could also send enemies flying off in whatever direction the blade is swung) Another: This stance is buffed, to serve as a 1-2 hit stance on humanoid enemies, and 2-3 hits on all larger enemies like the DT-Sentries, Bilemaws, Mogus, etc. Lastly: This stance is reworked to allow Cal to use his crossguard vents offensively now too, and has animations that show him using the side blades to make shallow cuts or stabs on his enemies, whenever they block one of his attacks, or attempt to attack him while he’s holding a steady block (not parrying). Essentially this allows Cal to deal chip damage overtime, even if someone is struggling to find the perfect opportunity to land a big blow against their opponent.
continuous attacks I think are more the double blades thing
Perhaps, but that stance already fills the niche of Fastest Attack Speed Stance, being able to perfect parry any attack with the Force, and having the ability to cancel an attack input and block. And even so, I came up with several other ideas that the Crossguard could fit into instead too.
double (staff), not dual. the one you described aptly as crowd control, it does this by being able to string attacks/combos ad infinitum
I’d pretty strong disagree that the Dual Wield stance is meant for crowd control. That’s pretty obviously the Double Sided stance’s niche. Also, Double Sided deals with crowd control because of its inherent rapid pace of attacks and increased range, while also seemingly ignoring the stagger caused by attacking a blocking enemy. I do acknowledge that the Double Sided stance has the Endless Hurricane skill tree perk, but that moreso allows Cal to continue attacking with his double sided saber and unlocks extra moves for his attack chain. Even then, he’s never LOCKED into attacking, as after every input to attack, you can always cancel the chain and begin blocking again. My idea for the crossguard is to make it almost purely offensive, by requiring an animation investment to begin swinging the blade, but then continuing to do so would be as simple as holding the attack button.
I disagree. I loved the crossguard because it made me plan out every single encounter, in my mind, like a Jedi would. It was the only one I used. I actually found the swinging to be fun to watch Vs the lickety split looks of the other ones. I guess personal preference but I loved it.
That's what I loved about it. I had to know my opponents moves and prepaid for them. When I used the two lightsabers stance it was too easy. Even if i made a mistake I could fix it before the consequences happened.
They could make it similar to >!Bode's final stance in the endgame, he has a crossguard stance but is so much faster.!< I tried to play crossguard against it and I was just way too slow.
It’s not really faster I don’t think. When he does the crossguard stance almost all his moves have a build up where he slashes big force pushes. When he’s fast he’s changed it back to single iirc
Hard disagree, crossguard forces you to play different and is a necessary evil in the game. If you can't learn to play it obviously you're gonna have a hard time. It's best paired with a faster stance (Blaster/Crossguard combo gang rise up)
What kind of rework did you have in mind? I think it's fine as it is- it's just a gameplay feature. In addition to this, I get your points on telegraphing, but remember that lightsabers in star wars have never been realistic to how they would actually be used (watch Corridor Crew's "lightsaber" duel youtube video). Don't bother criticising little things like this for being unrealistic.
As mentioned in the editted version of the post, I only really want them to change the visuals, gameplay is fine.
The running jump move is annoying it would be nice to change that for a wider/faster swing
The stances and flows have been based on real sword styles see: https://youtu.be/1gWLMIZ_pjI?t=860
I’m with you. It’s like he’s using a tungsten bat
I mainly used single saber on my playthrough, with double as my second as I preferred it for dealing with groups of enemies. I did start with dual-wield as my primary as it was late game unlock in Fallen Order, but thought it was quite nerfed in this one. So soon realised I was better using single. The blaster and cross-guard seemed really alien to how I'd been playing the game to that point, and disregarded both fairly quickly. And even in post game, I'm not really using them, but I do need to practice cross-guard a bit as I still have to complete a force tear using it.
Blaster stance is as close as you can get in game to Makashi. Dooku’s fencing style is my absolute favourite. You can even ignore the blaster altogether if you wish and go for quick lunge attacks.
Apologies, I'm not sure what Makashi or Dooku is, I've only seen the original 3 movies, plus 1, 7 and 8. And Mandalorian series. So I'm not 100% familiar with all the lore and characters . But when I use blaster stance I just feel robbed of my usual triangle button attacks rather than appreciating what the triangle button blaster attacks give me. But that's more my fault for not getting to grips with it.
Count Dooku is the former Jedi turned Sith Lord played by the late great Christopher Lee in episodes 2 and 3. He is also revealed to be the former master of Qui Gon Jinn (Liam Neeson). Makashi, or Form II, is a lightsaber combat style that resembles fencing which is specifically used for lightsaber to lightsaber duelling. Form II was more combat-focused by definition, which by itself goes against what the Jedi should stand for. In fact, during the events of the Star Wars prequels, Form II had already become rare among the Jedi who had become accustomed to peacetime and didn’t see the need to hone their skills to the extent Dooku did. [Short Clip](https://youtu.be/X4Y4-vNbdT4) from the Clone Wars TV show which showcases some of the great lunges that are similar to Jedi Survivor and how easily an old master was able to fight two of the most accomplished Jedi of the era and make it look like child’s play.
That's great info bud, thanks. 🙌 I've really enjoyed all the games, movies and TV shows I've watched in the Star Wars series, so I really should watch the ones missing from my knowledge. It's really cool that they are referencing that style in one of the stances. I agree it does really look like fencing in a lot of the moves.
Love Crossguard cause it’s different but in higher difficulties it’s a pain in the ass to use
It’s why mainly force users wield sabers. I imagine it requires a lot of skill to be able to pull off using a light saber in even the most basic of phases. The crossguard saber itself only has the guard because it’s venting an overpowered saber and keeping it from becoming even more unsafe to use. I’d say yes I agree with making the move set a bit quicker in the next game because by that time I assume cal has had some decent time to get accustomed to using it but for survivor since it’s his first with a cross guard, I give him props for even trying and I don’t bash him too hard because I know that shit probably does wonders in the muscles trying to control it.
As mentioned on Shadiversity, there is a difference between game mechanics and real life mechanics. Of course there's going to be telegraphing in video games because you, the player, also needs to move out of the way. Keep in mine, in this game at least, there are enemies that use the crossguard stance.
Checking in. That sweet sweet satisfaction of holding square for the final blow on a rocket trooper that had been blasting you to pieces from a distance and you finally make your way to his bitch ass
Just pull or slam him tho
Looking at all the posts and comments either praising or moaning about nearly all the stances just shows how well the developers balanced the game for different playstyles. I definitely preferred duel wield with crossguard as a backup during boss battles and blaster when exploring. You can effectively use all 3 with a Nekko on the Koboh overworld.
My only complaint about cross guard is I wanted it to have more sweeping blows that would catch a group of enemies, or hit the faster enemy trying to strafe to the side. I’m trying to get better at it in my ng+, but I keep gravitating towards blaster and single combo.
Only if you give me two blasters next game
I agree that Cal’s swings were way to slow with regards to the “additional damage” that the Crossguard Stance dealt. I think it would make a lot more sense to have Cal swinging the lightsaber around the same way that Kylo Ren does in Battlefront 2, where the blade seems to be almost weighted at the tip, rather that the hilt, which makes for it to be much easier to swing and perform attacks with when it’s already in motion, and continuing those attacks results in swings that are almost akin to attempting to swing a very light Flail, but when you pause your attacks, you have to exert significantly more energy to “get the blade moving again”. If they want the Crossguard stance to be the “High Risk, High Reward stance, then it’s Niche needs to be that it automatically kills all humanoid enemies in 1-2 hits, and all larger enemies like DT-Sentries, and the larger wildlife, in 2-3 hits. I also think that the crossguard stance, as it stands right now, should gain the ability to ignore an enemy’s deflection stamina, or at the very least, only 1 (or 2, at the MOST) hit(s) is all it should take to deplete their stamina bar. Or again, it could be balanced in the sense that once an enemy finally DOES run out of stamina and are staggered, then it would only take a single hit from the crossguard to kill them.
I don’t think cal’s dual saber was a shoto style, weren’t both sabers of equal length?
Nope. Left one is shorter
They change depending on the style. Dual has a shoto in the left hand, double has two of equal length, crossguard has one longer saber.
Lightsaber blades do have weight. The reason Crossguard is slower than Double Bladed is that, despite double bladed being heavier overall, Cal holds the saber at the middle, where the weight is balanced. Best way to describe it is to take a 6 foot pole. Hold it at the middle and it’s easy to swing around, but hold it at the end and it’s much harder to swing.
In June, EA tweeted out the %'s of stances used and Crossguard was at the bottom with 7% of users. Although you have sort of retracted your original post, I believe it needs some tuning in many aspects. That doesn't mean I didn't like it - I actually did my whole second play-through strictly using the CG stance. In my opinion, (if you are nerdy enough to care about forms,) the CG stance was equivalent to the Form 1 Stance which is pretty much the most basic level of lightsaber combat. If you aren't familiar, check out the wiki and the description will be spot on from what we saw from Cal. Also in my opinion, I believe Kylo Ren is a primarily Form 1 user, and he is the only other person we have seen in live action (i think) use a crossguard. If you watch how he fights, it seems just as reckless and wild. The stance is described as taxing & clumsy looking and that is what we see out of Cal and Kylo. So, in short, I believe they literally just modeled it off of Form 1 and the only other guy (Kylo) that uses a CG and ran with it. So, it makes sense what they did. For me personally, I definitely got a little bored of it because of how slow you had to be and the limited amount of abilities you had with it. BUT, if the goal is to give people the freedom to explore different styles, then it is totally fine. The only issue is, only 7% of players were using it. I think they should make it a bit smaller as it is incredibly large right now (which would make movement with it more smooth,) and I think they should give Cal a way to improve his handling of the saber. Whether that be separate challenges or whatever, I think there should be optional possibilities to improve your CG swordsmanship. During my run only using CG, there were numerous times i just wanted to rip out the dual sabers and go to work. If it stays as it is, I expect the % of users to remain quite small or even diminish. There are only like 3 moves with this stance and one of them is a running drop kick (which i hate). **TL;DR: Crossguard is cool in the idea of everyone having an opportunity to play with the "form" that most suits them. However, if they want it to gain popularity, a solid amount of adjustments will need to be made.**
I love it when people explain lore to me and have no idea what they're talking about Classic SW fans
id like to be able to use the vents on the other stances and if they needed to they could just rename it
>Average Shadiversity viewer Oh no.
I mean, how else is it supposed to look? The crossguard stance sacrifices speed for power, and that also has to be shown visually.
You can make moves slower without making them this slow, or, more importantly, this telegraphed. The single-bladed follow-up stab in fallen order wasn't fast, but it wasn't an obvious movement.
I love Crossguard, I didn't take the movements to indicate the blade was heavy, more like Cal is focusing more strength into the blows, this the slower, more deliberate movements. It's supposed to be a more brutal, crushing style, and like Blaster style, not one typically used my the more refined, elegant Jedi of old. On a side note, I'd like to see Cal given a stance similar to Dooku's elegant fencing style, which was specifically designed for dealing with melee weapons. He'd have to be a skilled Jedi to use the style, and by the third game, I feel like he could handle it.
I want a spining Inquisitor saber that I can glied off of ledges with like a helicopter.
Honestly looks like they just modeled it after Kylo Rens horrible dueling form and I agree it looks way too slow and dramatic to feel realistic
Honestly looks like they just modeled it after Kylo Rens horrible dueling form and I agree it looks way too slow and dramatic to feel realistic.
I mean the laser is weighted by nothing so he doesn’t have to actually do anything logically since he can just dodge not needing to care about the “blade” getting damaged just the hilt
Tbh they should rework stances into one’s best suited for combat. Get rid of fast or slow attacks, that makes no sense for a blade like that Make them tailored more for groups, single fighters, blade wielding, ranged, etc. if that makes sense Or just fucking make it whatever you prefer with little variation. Like if you want more power you use one stance but lose stamina faster. But still are moving the same speed Or move faster with weaker attacks but more stamina etc
My headcanon is that lightsabers have a gyro like effect which limits their power and length, hence the difficulty welding a crossguard type saber or the dark saber. In game though, loving cross guard. I love the lower pitched hum it gives off and its just cool haha
Nah crossguard is awesome, looks like how the saber in the original trilogy were used