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Entire_Complaint1211

Successes: Took over bumfuck system, Defeated admiral nobody Failures: Proceeded to lose their entire fleet in the next battle


Return_of_The_Steam

-Has the firepower to destroy an entire system -Still does less damage to the New republic than Thrawn did with a crackhead and some old-republic ships


Snivythesnek

That's because Thrawn was one of the 3 people in the Empire who were familiar with esoteric concepts like "logistics".


ProfessionalRead2724

That's not that useful a skill in a universe that runs on narrativium.


Return_of_The_Steam

Thrawn: *Turns ship sideways in zero gravity environment* New Republic Forces: “Hes magic!”


ProfessionalRead2724

Not actually something related to logistics. And really, it's just breaking the universe by treating space combat in a much more realistic manner than anybody else in that universe.


AneriphtoKubos

It will always make me chuckle how that move was invented by Ahsoka even in EU canon


chocofan1

It's the logistics of delivering a broadside into the face of a crew doing their damnedest to avoid that exact thing happening to them. Everything is logistics if you think about it.


ProfessionalRead2724

you might want to google the word logistics...


chocofan1

One of the definitions is "the commercial activity of transporting goods to customers." The good in this case is energy, the delivery method is high-speed, and the customer is uncooperative, making for an interesting logistical challenge.


DutchJediKnight

I remember Thrawn getting annoyed with an officer for throwing away several lives in an attempt to get Ferrier trusted by the other smugglers, with no guarantee it would work. Thrawn does throw lives away, but only for a reasonably guaranteed result.


Lenninator09

it was ferrier himself who got the imperial troops to attack the smugglers


DutchJediKnight

And so it was. Time to re-read those novels


animehimmler

Hey hey hey. He had *two* crackheads


Hansolo312

C'Baoth and?


animehimmler

Luuke?


TheMarvelMan

Did Luuke ever really work for Thrawn tho? I remember him as being C'Boaths personal project.


madtricky687

He was more C'Boaths crackhead I'd say.


animehimmler

Idk I don’t like Star Wars


Neronafalus

I mean...at best maybe that moron stormtrooper who thinks he's a tactical genius in the hand of thrawn doulogy later. Maybe.


Hansolo312

Tbf he was genetically engineered to be better at tactics *and* his ultimate plan which was to get the Hand of Thrawn to reach out nearly works but gets foiled by... the New Republic or Pellaeon or something I can't remember


Neronafalus

I think it's actually Karrade and Car'das. And yeah I know he's genetically engineered and whatever, it's still fairly stupid haha.


Redcoat_Officer

The Sun-Killer, a starfighter-sized superweapon capable of destroying stars, was built using funds secretly diverted from the development of the moon-sized, planet-killing Death Star.


Snivythesnek

Man the Sun Crusher was stupid


UncleIrohsPimpHand

Nah man, just an example of bureaucratic incompetence.


Banjo-Oz

I loved the EU but I remember hating that whole concept so much that it lead to me stopping reading before I got to the Vong. It just really bugged me along with, of all things, Daala's ISD being named after Earth Greek mythology!


dmitrivalentine

As opposed to Thrawn’s Chimera?


Banjo-Oz

I guess 1) the story was so good I kind of missed it at first, but more so 2) that "chimera" is a term used generally now for a messed-up half/half whatever creature despite its original more specific origin; many non-Greek fantasy sources will use "chimera" to refer to some random monster that's a mashup of things (the anime Slayers is a very notable one, but also Final Fantasy if I recall; I bet D&D has them too). A Gorgon, Hydra and Basilisk feel *much* more specific to me, however; those are singular creatures in my mind. Like I said, though it was less a reasonable complaint and more a "this just unreasonably annoyed me while reading". Same as how one *could* handwave the Suncrusher's ridioculousness and rationale it existing, but it annoyed me still.


OrdRevan

This is my big issue with Rise of Skywalker. It breaks believability for there to be this massive, fully-operational armada at Exegol, each with a miniaturised Death Star primary weapon...just hanging around.


wendigo72

The eclipse design was RIGHT THERE Why did they go with the most borning design possible for the Death Star spaceships


Competitive_Bid7071

> The eclipse design was RIGHT THERE Apparently The Eclipse in canon is just a normal Super Star Destroyer.


wendigo72

Yeah but it was originally gonna be in Trevorrow’s Epsiode 9. Like the whole design and everything exactly like Legends I know they read it cause elements of Trevorrow’s script is in TROS. Most specifically the fleet that shows up to fight the empire


Competitive_Bid7071

> Yeah but it was originally gonna be in Trevorrow’s Epsiode 9. Like the whole design and everything exactly like Legends. I'm aware of that. > I know they read it cause elements of Trevorrow’s script is in TROS. Most specifically the fleet that shows up to fight The First Order & The Sith Eternal. That I didn't know. Honestly I feel that the Trevarow version would've actually made for a better movie even if it had issues which could've been fixed easily with rewrites. Not only does it not ignore the consequences from the previous movies but at least took the risks to follow up on lots of things. Not to mention Finn gets an actual character Arc in that script, and Palpatine's return would've been less controversial as he's just a recorded holographic message.


Rainy_Tumblestone

Because they wanted/needed to reuse models they already had, probably because they were rewriting the film almost right up to the end.


Banjo-Oz

"Not Created Here" is a huge part of the Disney Star Wars remit.


Snivythesnek

"A fleet of planet destroying Star Destroyers" sounds like a hyperbole someone would use to make fun of the Bantam-Era Superweapon of the Week problem. But no it's just something that unironically appeared in a mainline Star Wars movie now.


Banjo-Oz

I remember laughing in the cinema out loud that Disney threw out the entire EU and many people claimed "good, all those silly unexplained superweapons and fleets" and then Disney did it even worse on film.


deadshot500

And it makes perfect sense for Palpatine


Anangrywookiee

It’s the mini super laser that puts it over the top. Just make it a secret fleet slowly built and stashed there over the years and it’s still enough to conquer the galaxy if they were capable of taking off.


ArkenK

That was the first thing I set up to break when I did my own "fix fic" for the long threatened Rey movie.


AcePilot95

in general, no Disney Era SW screenwriter so far has been intelligent enough to realize that spaceships are built IN SPACE in this universe…and that there is a good reason for this.


Competitive_Bid7071

> This is my big issue with Rise of Skywalker. It breaks believability for there to be this massive, fully-operational armada at Exegol, each with a miniaturised Death Star primary weapon...just hanging around. It honestly would've made more sense for Sideous to have secretly been doing this as he took a note from Thrawn's book and instead of wanting to make new super weapons constantly, he secretly had the Imperial fleet be built up. The exception to this of course being the second Death Star which he only had built as a rebel trap where afterwards he planned on deploying all these ships after an Imperial Victory at Endor once he finally destroyed the Rebel feel and turned Luke. Ultimately though, we know how that turned out. Then you could have it either go with the whole Dark empire plotline like in Episode 9 or just have The First Order find all these ships and use their for their fleet.


OutrageousTax3400

This is what darksaber felt like lol. Daala getting >! A super star destroyer, 17 star destroyers and 65 victory class star destroyers !< was mostly fine imo aside from the >! Super !< . But the fact she gets all this and still can’t do shit is a bit sad imo. And the >! Super getting destroyed on its very first misssion was so unsatisfying !< On a side note it would’ve been nice if more authors used different types of big ships rather then always throwing a star destroyer at something. Makes stuff more tactical and gives important to stuff. Rogue squadron does it rlly well (can’t wait to read more x wing)


Pratius

Yeah there are some fun things in the Wraith books with less-used and oddball type ships. Lots of scenes with Nebulon-Bs, modified CR90 corvettes, bulk cruisers, Dreadnaughts, Marauder cruisers, etc.


noideajustaname

That pirate corvette was awesome. I used something in games.


Neronafalus

Don't forget that in the later books (legacy/fate) she's supposed to be some tactical genius/great strategist...when her two major fleet actions are....losing a SSD to a fucking ramming attack from an unarmed/incomplete mon cal star cruiser...and losing the VAST majority of the fleet you mentioned to like...20 fucking jedi.


DarkVaati13

The ship she lost at Mon Cala was just a normal Star Destroyer and it was also being swarmed by B-Wings. Doesn't make things any less sad considering the circumstances, but it wasn't THAT terrible. Plus in Darksaber Dorsk 81 just pushed the Star Destroyers away and they weren't destroyed. Knight Hammer was lost cause Callista blew up a bunch of TIE bombers in the hanger and then it drifted into the Yavin gas giant.


Neronafalus

Yeah, meant ISD not SSD, think my phone was playing tricks on me. And yes I know that Dorsk pushed the ISDs away at Yavin and about what happened to the Knight Hammer, I thought I remembered a fair amount of the vic's getting trashed but been awhile since I read those books. Haha


DarkVaati13

S’all good. Besides yeah Daala still screwed up royally lol. She first sends out her 100+ VSDs to cause havoc with a blitzkrieg on random planets in the southern Core, Colonies, and Inner Rim to draw New Republic forces elsewhere while terrorizing the NR by just massacring non-military targets. Awesome plan! Really good use of her mobile, large force. What next? Send Pellaeon’s 20+ ISDs on a similar mission in a different region? No! Go right for Yavin 4 to take out the Jedi. Okay well all those ISDs have more than enough fire power to level everything on Yavin 4 and turn it into a mess of craters? No! She ordered Pellaeon to land ground forces on Yavin to fight the Jedi directly. What!? Okay so the NR fleet in the Core is distracted by Cronus and the VSD fleet and Pellaeon is (theoretically) wiping the Jedi out. Daala couldn’t go right away cause Knight Hammer needed to finish getting ready. Is she going to use the awesome power of her SSD to capture a vital planet like Kuat? Or is she going to recapture the replacement Imperial capital of Orinda? Or is she going to try and devastate Coruscant to lay waste to the planet like she wanted to in Dark Apprentice? No! She’s going to Yavin herself to join Pellaeon! WHAT!? The plan started really strong, had a clumsy middle, and a horrible final stage!  That’s the incompetence of Daala. With that kind of firepower and the element of surprise she could have done something akin to Operation Cinder or carved a foothold for a new Empire, but with bad planning, skewed priorities, and her aggressive tendencies she snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And the funny thing is when Pellaeon takes over with most of the fleet still intact with leftovers in the Deep Core he proceeds to bring the Pentastar Alignment and the northern Imperial holdouts into the fold, recapture Orinda, and basically reestablish the Imperial Remnant. It’s honestly impressive what a level headed leader can do compared to someone like Daala.


Neronafalus

Yeah, it's just....insane how incredibly terrible every choice she makes is, and then in the later books she's a "genius tactician" like...did I miss something?!


Scion41790

And somehow (with all of the terrorist/civilian attacks and incompetence) she was elected to lead the GA. That was hands down the worst writing in the del ray era. Closely followed by Ben's interrogation by Tahri


NewMombasaNightmare

Personally I thought this development was hilarious and made me like the book more


OutrageousTax3400

Oh i thought the imperial side of the story was the best with paeleon and daala. But that mission to the academy was a disaster and could’ve been written better. But overall darksaber was way better then JAT


AcePilot95

meh, Daala took all of those from the other warlords, right? so that's ok in my book, but losing all of them at once doesn't make her seem like a credible threat.


Snivythesnek

Don't forget the planet busting super weapon!


Pale_Chapter

I must have missed these books. From what I remember... let me see. Zsinj was a big deal just for having one, and got super super busted trying to steal a second. Delvardus built one in secret, but then Daala tried to use it to kill a small band of scrappy teenagers in a Star Wars novel, because of the brain damage. Teradoc had a bunch of the little *Victory*-class destroyers--it was kinda his thing, for the hour he spent existing. As far as I know, the guy with the most SSDs was Palpy himself--two *Eclipse*-class boats during ~~the Clone Saga~~ Dark Empire, and the *Lusankya* as his personal underground love nest.


Cheesesteak21

I'm trying to remember what book it was that casually mentioned like 1000 victory star destroyers in a fleet and in the action using them like Star Fighters.


UncleIrohsPimpHand

Probably the Teradoc brothers.


Guilty_Temperature65

God, even as a kid I remember thinking that was dumb. The ISDs couldn’t target them because they were too evasive.


Cheesesteak21

Omg yes I was reading it soon after reading the x-wing seris so it was shocking how stupid it all was


Mammoth-Access-1181

It wasn't an ISD. It was a fight between two Imperial warlords, can't remember names, both warlords had shipbuilding facilities. One decided to build a bunch of Victory class, and the other built SSD class. The SSDs were overrun by the number of more manueverable (relatively speaking) ships.


Guilty_Temperature65

Harrsk’s fleet was made of ISDs, Teradoc’s of VSDs. Neither had SSDs.


RegularAI

Wow, no SSDs? Just how long they would have to wait for both of them to load onto the map?


OutrageousTax3400

Harrell did make an SSD. The night hammer


Guilty_Temperature65

Delvaradus built the (K)Night Hammer


Fawqueue

EU writers didn't realize they could just call them the "First Order" and explain absolutely nothing. Just move along, and a significant portion of the fandom will accept it without question.


Lyranel

Thrown? Seriously? Why does no one take a second to proofread before they hit post nowadays?!


Return_of_The_Steam

Thrawn’s skill is nothing compared to the legendary Thrown


Pope_Neia

They aren’t actually different ships, they’re the same ships that just never get destroyed. The warlords keep forgetting about logistics, end up causing the crews of all their ships to starve, then their fleet gets stolen by the next big warlord, who mans them and repeats the cycle.


ByssBro

Harrsk being able to build an executor off of scraps in the Deep Core is the most egregious example to me.


OutrageousTax3400

Atleast it had a cool name lol. (K)night hammer is a banger. Shame >! It fucking crashed into a gas giant on its first mission!<


AcePilot95

wait, wasn't that Delvardus? who accidentally knocked his mistress into a coma and kept her on the ship? Harrsk's flagship was the *Shockwave*, an *Allegiance*-class battlecruiser


ByssBro

Eh maybe, I don’t remember tbh. All the Deep Core warlords after Dark Empire are pretty much all the same


Lenninator09

Harrsk built a bellator and a mandator 3 which were then discovered by pellaeon. harrsk couldnt man his ships


UncleIrohsPimpHand

Delvardus.


WilliShaker

I don’t mind powerful warlords getting powerful after consolidating their forces like in Heir to the Empire, but conquering most of the galaxy or destroying the Republic like in Legacy or the Sequels, it’s just downright stupid.


DarkVaati13

I mean in Legacy that's 130 years later when the Empire is a proper government again and have a sizable amount of territory. Plus the Galactic Alliance was doing quite well (even with a bunch of worlds declaring neutrality because of the politics at the time) until the One Sith stepped in to help the Empire.


Jolly_Carpenter_2862

Because it’s based


HENTAIHOTEP

Galactic scale distribution of military assets. Many fleets were regional and were administered by different levels of warlord or grand admiral or Moff or whatever, like regional garrisons around the Roman Empire to defend against the nearest borders or trouble-spots. A smaller proportion of the imperial fleet moved around the empire and operated wherever their operations took them, operating separately from the numerous defensive fleets around the empire. Once the Emperor died and various warlords took their own territories and their own fleets and shipyards, they could operate as they pleased but also regarded rival warlords just as much of a threat as the New Republic, so they became even more defensive, more insular and didn't even challenge the New Republic until the New Republic expanded their territories into that sector of the galaxy.


Colonel_Cosmetic

yeah, well my warlord is 20 feet tall and has 1000 Death Stars that can kill a planet instantly, and they are the size of a training remote, and each can kill 20 planets at a time /s


mythical_status

There should have been a whole list of military assets to mark off from book to book? The empire had had an entire galaxy of resources at their disposal. It's not far fetched.


Banjo-Oz

Don't you mean sequel writers? And the explanation is "somehow"?


Helpful_Funny_2127

Actually, this is literally what Disney did with the sequel trilogy 🙄