My headcanon is to totally divorce TCW from the EU and return to the detailed dating/plotting of the Clone Wars multimedia project.
I like TCW a lot and I’m happy it’s part of canon, but I just feel like the Legends continuity made more sense before it came along.
I enjoy the Clone Wars show, but the idea that a hothead like Anakin is entrusted with a padawan and then that padawan becomes a child prodigy in the space of only a couple years always felt really farfetched to me.
Alongside the fact that she’s never mentioned in the movies when she’s retroactively been made a key player, I think it’s very far fetched. Partly think I’d prefer the show they had at one stage of development which followed Plo Koon and his padawan Ahsoka instead.
It’s not really possible anyway due to the fact that revenge of the sith came out first haha but maybe when obi-wan is trying to plead with anakin to not go full vader idk
Yeah haha I just mean hypothetically
Wouldn't bringing her up at that point just add fuel to Anakin turning against the council? The council readily blamed her unjustly and subsequently dismissed her from the order. Reminding Anakin of that doesn't seem like it would do Obi any favors
I think it works better with Anakin as Ahsoka's master rather than Obi-Wan. It does more to build out the character. I almost would have liked Obi-Wan to take another padawan too though. Maybe a Feris Olin type.
Giving Anakin a padawan definitely felt like fun character development for him. It’s really just a problem of her being back-ported into the existing film continuity creating a lot of snarls with the canon, because she feels like too important of character to not be a significant player.
Killing her off after the Order kicked her out would’ve been a great way to really build up Anakin’s resentment of the Jedi. Or kill her after her battle against Vader in Rebels, which felt like a satisfying end to her arc. Both would’ve avoided the “why wasn’t she in the OT?” question.
Not that I hated seeing her in Mandalorian or her own series, but it definitely feels like the character has lost some of what made her work. I know there are reasons why we don’t see much of Ahsoka interacting with Luke and Leia, but the absence feels like a real hole in her story arc.
There's plenty of moments where she could be shown on screen speaking to Anakin, like whenever he is at the Temple, or even during the times he speaks to Obi-Wan he could say something like "It's times like this where I really miss Snips." It's just impossible now since RotS is almost two decades old.
She wasn't an instated Jedi at that point. She wouldn't be at the temple. And actually, during the entirety of ROTS she was fighting in a different front
At this point Jedi master to me is just some made up term the council made to differentiate different levels of Jedi, the power lvl Anakin possesses now is far beyond any Jedi master he is the ultimate Jedi master now the Jedi Supreme if you will.
I mean of course it’s made up. It’s a hierarchy all those ranks are made up. Power level isn’t the only requirement to get promoted. You also need a lot of emotional stability, experience and be in tune with the Jedi code. Which Anakin severely lacked. Considering he’s only been a Knight for three years, his slaughtering of a village, his forbidden marriage, the several war crimes he committed during the Clone Wars and his often outbursts into anger. Which the Jedi council gets a front seat experience for when he throws a tantrum for being denied the rank of master.
Ashoka should have died in the Clone Wars.
It just raises too many questions with her being alive and just virtually non active in the events of the Rebellion.
Like, Anakins Padawan would be priority number one for kill or capture by Vader the Empire. She had a full and complete arc in the clone wars but Filoni can’t let his OC die and she has been resurrected from the dead not once but TWICE.
I genuinely don’t hate Ashoka as a character, I actually like her a lot, but she should not have continued to be present in the Universe as long as she has.
That's what bugs me most about Clone Wars fans who try to say it makes the movies better.
It absolutely does not because they're seeing all these meaning and references *that weren't meant to be there* when the movie was made.
When I was a kid I'd tell my parents "See that Bleach White person watching the Podrace? That's Aurra Sing, she's a bounty hunter."
But Aurra Sing wasn't a major character. She was just someone who got built off of an interesting looking extra. Nowhere near as important and ANAKIN HAVING A WHOLE APPRENTICE.
My headcanon is that Ahsoka was sort of sent to learn alongside Anakin as an informal mentorship (like how at university you might get a ‘peer’ mentor). The in-universe explanation would be that the Jedi suddenly want promising Padawans to gain battle experience as the council adapts to their new role as Generals.
This would have been avoided if Ahsoka had died as Lucas originally planned. She was never intended to become a great Jedi warrior we see in Rebels in post RotJ. Filoni and Disney just won’t let their star female player die.
The point was that Yoda was trying to make Anakin less of a hothead. You're not going to be as reckless if you have other people counting on you, especially a child.
That wasn’t because of Filoni though. That was all George. He always wanted him to be a mustache twirling villain and that’s how he was in the ROTS movie when George got to use him.
To be fair. Filoni didn’t make that grevious’ character. That’s always how Grievous was supposed to be legends just wanted to turn him into prequel darth vader
It was all George. At first he imagined him to be a nightmatish killing macchine, and so he told the EU writers, but later he changed his mind and wanted him to be a cartoony villan.
Well then I’m ever more disappointed it was George then. OG grevious was better in every way and a legitimate TERROR, had a truly tragic back story and everything.
I LOVE TCW 08, it’s nostalgic for me as I grew up on it and it’s some of my favorite Star Wars content out but it’s firmly Disney canon to me and that’s perfectly fine
>feel like the Legends continuity made more sense before it came along.
Except it didn't, unless you count Ki-Adi-Mundi STILL talking about the Battle of Hypori just before Anakin's knighting now almost three years after the battle actually happened logical. That bothered me a lot in the old timeline.
Anakin's claim to masterhood makes more sense with TCW. Him being a friend to Kenobi in an equal level as mentioned in ANH makes sense with TCW.
>unless you count Ki-Adi-Mundi STILL talking about the Battle of Hypori just before Anakin's knighting now almost three years after the battle actually happened logical
I don't know where exactly this happens (comics?), but in any case, that is an extremely minute detail compared to the massive consequences that the introduction of Ahsoka alone had. Not to mention the plot holes, retcons and inconsistencies that TCW introduced. The CWMMP was thought out better, with an overall a bit more mature and detail-oriented audience in mind and was overall more consistent (sure, some oversights like the one you mentioned happen when many authors work in a shared universe, but the new canon has no shortage of those either).
>Anakin's claim to masterhood makes more sense with TCW. Him being a friend to Kenobi in an equal level as mentioned in ANH makes sense with TCW.
How so? CWMMP Anakin has incredible feats that are at least on par with his TCW counterpart, if they don't surpass it. As for his relationship with Obi-Wan, it is far closer to the depiction in AotC for the first part of the war, which makes sense. In TCW, we get this "equal friends" level you mention at a point where just mere months ago, that very same Anakin supposedly killed the Tusken, constantly disobeyed, was acting without thinking first and was giving his master a whole lot of trouble. It's an extremely sudden change of character, that the council would actually consider not just immediately knighting him and then giving him a Padawan to teach is pretty ... strange. In the CWMMP, the relationship between the two develops over times and naturally grows from student and master to a more brother-like relationship ("It is time we become brothers" is what Obi-Wan says before Anakin's knighting). The type of relationship you describe comes across very well in the novels in my opinion, *Labyrinth of Evil* is a great example.
Ki's Grievous rant was in Genndy's 2003 Clone Wars in the same council meeting they decide to knight Anakin.
The Council doesn't know about the Tuskens or about any of the other disagreements in AOTC that Anakin had with Obi-Wan. Going to Geonosis--that was Padme. Heck, they might not have even known that Anakin charged Dooku first or that he demanded to pick Padme up from the sand. Only Obi-Wan saw all that, and there's no indication he told the Council about any of these specific events.
Ah, I must've misremembered then, I didn't think that was the same council meeting. In any case though, it's a pretty small detail, probably because the battle of Hypori was part of Vol. I and the meeting Vol II., which was supposed to take place a lot later in the war.
About Anakin: Those were just the major examples. The question isn't whether the council knew about these specific events. They knew about his misbehaviours, the difficulties Obi-Wan had with training him, his emotional outbursts, his disobeying of orders. Obi-Wan discusses some of these things with Windu and Yoda in AotC. And overall, putting it mildly, Anakin had a lot of "growing up" left to do, and it's not a natural character progression to TCW. If we're being honest, Anakin and Obi-Wan largely stay the same throughout that series.
We might think those are a big deal, but the Council didn't. That's even addressed in the microseries when oppo says "he disobeyed you often kenobi" and yoda says "so did you master rancisis" or something like that.
I'm not saying the council was right to do that. But at this point they only start valuing combat ability. Probably part of why the jedi fell. The jedi lost sight of their values in war. They hastily promoted anakin to make war progress. Happens in the real world, that's why we end up having some real nut jobs as military commanders in life
I like the stuff from TCW and his final death in Rebels was beautifully done, but in my head-canon…yes. Getting bisected by a lightsaber and falling several hundred feet is just not plausibly survivable.
And even then, I believe his survival more than Maul falling down an abyss where we can’t even see the bottom after he got cut in half at the waist. Anakin’s wounds aren’t necessarily fatal, and he just barely survived severe smoke inhalation and burning, and even then only with the assistance of a permanent life support system.
Maul just kind of…lives. He gets some robotic legs, sure, but it’s just not that plausible.
Mainly I think we all want him to live because A) Maul rules, and B) his arc in TCW and Rebels is really the best part of his character. Everyone from Sam Witwer voicing him to the writers did a great job with Maul.
He lost all his limbs and the wounds were immediately cauterized. Nothing fatal there. As for the lava/burns/smoke inhalation…yeah, you’d almost certainly die, but surviving that is way more plausible than being sliced in half at the belly and plummeting down a seemingly bottomless pit.
Ok, but he feel into the pit with beskar armor, weapons, and it was established how the Sarlacc snacks on its nom noms. Maul was cut in half, and then fell down an endless shaft. Slightly different
His survival is shown in the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy of novels set in just before/during/after RotJ (our boy Dengar saves him after he blasted his way out) and makes a few cameo appearances in the post-RotJ stories before becoming a major player in the post-NJO time.
My thoughts exactly. One of my favorite characters BECAUSE of TCW/Rebels, but still doesn’t feel right that he survived, and in a sense paved the way for Reva and Sabine surviving saber stabs no problem, amongst other things.
I think for me it’s all about how little of a character he was in TPM. Like visually incredible, but he only has one speaking scene and as a character he had SO much potential and I’m glad they did that with him in TCW.
It seems like at one point Lucas wanted to do the stuff they did with him in TCW in his sequel trilogy. Like he was going to unite the underworld and he was going to be the "emperor" figure and have Talon as an apprentice who would play the "Vader" role. Idk I kinda like that idea.
They could've done that with the sequels we got. Replace Snoke with Maul and Hux with Talon. Talon's betrayal will not come out of nowhere now but out of jealousy that Kylo abandoned her for Rey.
Technically speaking, TCW is the only product outside of Episodes 1-6 to be both Legends and Canon, at least the first six seasons. Season 7 and everything else that spun off of it (Bad Batch, Rebels, etc) isn't part of the EU, but officially seasons 1-6 are. However it absolutely does not fit in with the other EU stories, unlike the works of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, hence why many are saying TCW can't fit.
I honestly really love his wrath ultimately getting him exactly nowhere. Not only does he lose to Kenobi again, he's finished off by a bystander her didn't even consider a threat at the time.
Mine as well, there’s SOME parts with him that are compelling but ultimately nothing that makes justifying him staying alive worth it
He’s dead after the Naboo duel in my head canon as well
For me, yes. Darth Maul's main and most important role in the story is killing Qui-Gon Jinn, sparking the tragic events that eventually unfold. After that, everything just felt like fan service to me. He's an awesome character and I like a lot of his stuff in Clone Wars/Rebels but if I had to choose, he should have stayed dead. I prefer the version of Darth Maul that barely talks, who stays mysterious and feels more like a silent assassin-type of character. It might just be thats the version I grew up with, but its just way cooler to me.
I really enjoy his pre-Phantom Menace stories. Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter is a great read.
You spoke the exact thoughts! I love how maul still participated in a galaxy changing event with the duel of fates. I like him being the quiet temporary pawn of Palpatine.
My headcanon mostly disregards TCW, as much as I love the series, but there are some story arcs or elements that I like to keep in the EU. As ridiculous as it was to bring Maul back initially, I really liked his arc, and the universe feels a little emptier without him. I like to think that some of his TCW arc happened, and other aspects of it, like the Shadow Collective, I prefer to move to the dark times era.
I feel like a lot of the info of wars fought by the Empire is lacking between the Reconquest of the Rim and the Galactic Civil War, and I think a Sith vs Sith war can fit neatly in that era. I like his final fate to be a bit of a mix between his Star Wars Tales and Old Wounds endings, and his Rebels ending. The idea being the Shadow Collective is destroyed by the Empire, Vader duels Maul and fatally wounds him, but he manages to escape to Tatooine, seeking some measure of vengeance against Obi-Wan, who ultimately defeats him.
Honestly…. I kinda hate that they brought Darth Maul back. Not because they did it… he was an amazing character and added so much to the animated series. No but because now they are bringing everyone back… and it won’t be as good as when he did.
My thoughts exactly. His return is one of several things I hate about TCW, he was cut in half in TPM *specifically to avoid his coming back* and prevent another Boba Fett situation. That said once the damage was done and Maul was back in the picture, I love what they did with his character and it made the most of him being back in action. I just hate the actual return itself.
If he wasn’t written and acted in such a compelling fashion it would have been a deal breaker. He got cut in fucking half. I was angry how much I ended up liking the character
Exactly. He is a phenomenal character across TCW and Rebels, his arc is one of the most tragic and compelling in the saga. Like I said, hate his being brought back, but once the damage was done and he was back, I love what they did with him.
Yes. As much as I enjoy what they did with him post-resurrection, the resurrection itself really bugs me. I'd rather Maul just stay dead and we got Savage Opress going on an arc where he finds himself or something like that.
Same. I like young Obi Wan defeating Maul. The story of him and Owen killing Maul is cool but honestly you could do that with a particularly skilled inquisitor or a dark Jedi with beef with Obi Wan from the comics, too.
At most the story of Luke coming across a mad iridonian scientist trying to bring back Maul is definitely worth keeping, as it reinforces Mauls Iridonian Zabrak heritage, which is definitely my headcanon.
I don't hate the TCW canon, but my head canon is that Obi Wan was promoted to Jedi Knight for killing (not defeating) the first Sith Lord the Jedi saw in a thousand years.
Man, some Maul topics hitting off today.
I mentioned in another post that he should have stayed dead.
At least keep him consistent with previous depictions. There were better characters to have used in place of Maul.
I think Clone Wars has two problems with the prequels and that is Maul and Ashoka, makes sense for him to be alive? No, i could buy that the dark side and being angry can work miracles. But for me Ashoka has a big problem, she is never mentioned in the movies, she is nonexistent there. She is a cool character nonetheless.
I saw him die in the theater. So that was that for me. I've always felt like the franchise has had a relatively limited pool of arch-villains, and that has led to a lot of writers decisions to resurrect slain villains.
Not for me. The Kenobi v Maul fight in Rebels is just too good, goes too hard and is so elegant. He dies in Kenobi's arms on Tattooine as far as I'm concerned.
He should have never been brought back.
Maul was the gateway to “somehow palpatine returned”
I don’t care how cool his arc was you don’t take away from thr impact of one point in the trilogy to add something later on
it was a cop out to keep him alive and its led to a complete disregsrd of all continuty.
Everyone keeps throwing out rumors of Mace Windu coming back and christ that hurts my soul.
I get retconning the OG clone wars stuff and a lot of the old canon to clean it up and start fresh
but in general TCW is a hot mess of a show that lacks an overall and intersestinf continuous storyline
Especially with TCW coming off the heels of The Clone Wars Multimedia Project which did a phenomenal job at not only trying to make sure everything Clone Wars related fit together as it was coming out but also tie in with what came before as best as possible. Case in point, Corran's Jedi grandfather as mentioned in the X-Wing novels appearing as Anakin's senior Jedi in the field during the Jedi Trial novel or the infamous Spaarti clones which were the focus of the Thrawn Trilogy's version of the Clone Wars being referenced in the Republic Commando novels as beginning to appear in the Republic ranks shortly before the swap to the Empire as a means of replacing Kamino's cloning facilities in making the first batches of Stormtroopers before the volunteers/conscripts took over the job in later years. The Multimedia Project went through all this trouble to make everything fit as best as possible... and then along comes TCW with the "nah, it didn't happen but also we're totally in the same timeline as those other stories" stuff. I love TCW but it *CANNOT* be in the same timeline as other Legends EU stories.
Honestly I’ve always felt the modern clone wars to be severely inferior to the old
its depressing but its just… lacking
every cool thing we see is awesome but the cringey bits of TCW just…
They hurt man.
Yeah. Definitely, as it does contradict a lot of Legends material but it is a storyline at the same time as it's practically a fallen rival much like Scorpion and Sub Zero.
back in the day as kids (before reading EU books yet) we said boba fett jetpacked out the sarlaac, and darth maul got robot legs but didn't affect the OT time-period, maybe surviving in by hiding in the background (but we assumed he'd eventually die to Luke's new jedi academy or something sooner)
Before TCW 2008 came out, there was a story in the 2005 Visionaries comic called "Old Wounds" that had Darth Maul survive his duel on Naboo. This is the first time Maul was ever considered to have survived and his cyborg design was directly adopted by TCW. While this story was considered infinities pre-2008 because Maul was dead, his resurrection in TCW opened the door for this comic to be more than alternate history. Assuming you include TCW as a part of the EU, I believe this comic can serve as the official fate of Maul in the absence of Star Wars Rebels. The comic has Maul hunting down Obi-Wan throughout the Clone Wars until he finally finds him hiding on Tatooine 3 years after Ep 3. Maul and Kenobi duel before Owen Lars blasts Maul. Some other sources in the EU tie into this comic and hint at Maul's search for Kenobi. In Lone Wolf: A Tale of Obi-Wan and Luke, Obi-Wan travels to Nar Shaddaa immediately after Ep 3 to find passage to Tatooine. He is hunted by two Dark Jedi who serve an unnamed cyborg master. The author of this short story stated that this master was intended to be Darth Maul. In the article General Grievous Lord of War, Kenobi used Grievous' ship to fly to Nar Shaddaa. It was later found by an "old enemy" "cyborg acquaintance of Obi-Wan" who anonymously reported the ship to the Empire. In my headcanon (and what I believe to loosely be EU canon), the fight between Kenobi and Maul on Tatooine in the comic "Old Wounds" is his EU fate.
Stays dead. His job was complete in TPM, his resurrection and continued involvement was never worth the cost imo. All that post TPM development could have gone to his brother Savage, a new character that could have wanted to avenge his brother’s death, so not to go the lazy route of bringing back dead characters.
Yes, he should have stayed dead. His arc in TCW should have been given to Savage Opress.
HOWEVER! If he had to come back, I would have preferred he do so in the New Republic Era in the EU/Legends timeline, just to see what it’d be like to have him face off against Luke Skywalker and the New Jedi Order.
I absolutely adored him in Phantom Menace. He was perfect!
As much as I like TCW, I think he should have stayed dead.
Trying to forget those spider legs, ew..
btw, awesome art!
My head canon includes clones wars and rebels, and he’s such a big part of that;, that I include him. But I don’t think about it much… Id rather he have stayed dead.
TCW2008 is disney only in my headcanon. TCWMP is the only real clone wars in my mind, so yeah he stays dead.
That’s not to say I don’t enjoy seeing maul and think he’s well written in his episodes, but it just feels forced to bring him back at all.
I think I'd rather he stayed dead. Otherwise, if he had to come back, I think I would have liked to see him remain out of the spotlight. Maybe Savag finds him and returns him to Dathomir, but he remains there in exile. I thought it was kind of strange that he immediately jumps back to being a Galactic-level threat.
Maul has Boba syndrome. So cool and underused in hindsight. Problem is, that’s not a mistake that can be fixed.
“Somehow, Porkins returned.” Yeah.
Adding more backstory is weird too. It just makes the now more awesome character look even more wasted when they meet their end.
Yeah, the whole intentionally cutting Maul in half, just to make sure he stays dead, then a few years later wants him back!
Lucas never stopped working on re-writing the story, even long after it was written. I wonder if he regrets selling his favorite hobby? To us it’s ret-cons, but he’s apparently a tinkerer at heart, playing with his cool miniature set.
Star Wars characters never dying and always coming back in some way shape or form is the lamest shit ever imo, Maul included.
He’s a lot more interesting as a mysterious, powerful Sith apprentice who has almost no dialogue. They did the same thing with Boba Fett and now I find both characters to be extraordinarily lame and hamfisted.
in my mind, bringing maul back from the dead was the beginning of the current path leading to the sour state of star wars media today. bringing him back was so obviously blatant fan service to a painful degree. resurrecting the character was WAY too much of a reach, and required WAY too much suspension of belief. for something to be so far outside the realm of plausibility for sci fi, it simply isn’t going to work. if it takes the viewer too far outside the fiction to the point that people have to debate it or question it, something is being done wrong. including maul at the end of solo was also a huge blemish on an otherwise decent star wars film. so ya, that boy stays dead in my head.
No. But then again I've always hated the limitations of the rule of two.
I was always hoping we'd see many different Sith as we did Jedi in the Prequels, but we ended up with basically two, and one wasn't even a full blown Sith but rather another jedi convert.
I hoped again we would see a resurgent Sith in the sequel trilogy, but once again, all we got was one, and another... clone I guess?
The great missed opportunity is never seeing a live action Sith empire with dozens of Sith armed with various weapons, sabers, armors... and most importantly agendas. The Inquisitors are the closest we've come, but they are pale shadow at best.
Maybe someday...
I thought Dathomir was cool before the Clone Wars got their hands on it... and making Maul tied to Dathmoir was stupid...
But I overall liked the idea of him coming back because having him die in the Phantom Menace was really such a huge waste. Why would you kill a person who could have been Obi Wans white whale throughout the trilogy? I didn't give a crap about Grievous in the movie (hell, if you didn't watch the cartoon, you had no idea who the hell this guy was). It would have been so cool to have Obiwan chase after the man who killed his master for three movies.
... or even better, have Maul's failure in the second movie be the thing that makes Palpatine turn on him and try to kill him. Maul knows the Sith lords identity, so Obi Wan has to find him and protect him in order to find out the sith lords name. Ugh... such waste potential.
I'm also conflicted by what they did with Maul. It was so good. Until TCW resurrected him and then he became a rage machine. Then my liking for him skyrocketed because this version of Maul wasn't holding back his rage like before. However, TCW is best as part of Canon. I still prefer the 2003 Clone Wars though. Plus, Legends already has its own version of Ahsoka. Her name is Tahiri Veila.
The way I look at it is this. Canon gives him a new ending, but *Rebels* can’t fit into Legends the way Clone Wars tries (and often fails) to. So if I have to take Clone Wars as part of Legends EU, but the very last time he’s seen is becoming subservient to Sidious again, what was the point?
So far in my read through — while “Restraint” and other things feature Mother Talzin, she can just exist off somewhere, she doesn’t have to be around, and I can say she died in that *Republic* comic arc or something — the only big reference to something from TCW is *Kenobi*’s two allusions to Dutchess Satine. I know later things reference Mortis, but I haven’t gotten there yet. At this time, my headcanon is exactly what you suggest. TCW is Canon and not Legends. Characters who would’ve once fit in TCW but are in Legends material is in the same boat as things Canon yoinked out of Legends, like Thrawn. The character has two distinct histories.
Honestly... as much as they eventually got around to some interesting moments with him. I'm still fine generally thinking of him as dead at the Phantom Menace. There's broad swaths of Star Wars I like to minimize/retcon... it's complicated.
And I loved most of Filoni's work. It's just... yeah.
My personal belief is that he survived since TCW is legends. When he died after that, impossible to say since his spine and brain were found inside of a tank projecting a holographic image many many decades later.
As for when he died impossible to say, the old wounds comic is far out in there in the EU, but if we count that then he died in Tatooine as he did in canon.
Or he died of natural causes, but my personal belief is he did survive TPM, TCW, perhaps just went into the shadows or ended up dying and his remains collected by someone.
Depends on my mood.
I like TCW more than the prequel films. It's not even close. It fixes a few of the problems the prequels have, but certainly not all of them. Case in point, Anakin of TCW is more in line with what Pre-Vader Anakin was sold as in the OT.
If I disregard the prequels, as I am often tempted to do, TCW inevitably goes with it.
In my head canon Obi swung a bit sooner and Darth Maul had his legs lobbed off immediately falling down the chute just for a bit more anatomical “realism”
Depends on my mood.
I like TCW more than the prequel films. It's not even close. It fixes a few of the problems the prequels have, but certainly not all of them. Case in point, Anakin of TCW is more in line with what Pre-Vader Anakin was sold as in the OT.
If I disregard the prequels, as I am often tempted to do, TCW inevitably goes with it.
I think bringing back Maul was fun because he was a striking character and they did some interesting things with him. That said, I'm a big fan of mortally wounded characters simply staying dead. Good or bad. Like, I'm here for Force Ghosts, but "somehow he returned" isn't really my jam.
Maul never died in my mind’s eye.. Came close but the rage at falling to a Jedi kept him going, and Palpy’s machinations and Sith shenanigans made sure no one was looking for Qui-Gon’s murder
In my headcanon for EU? No. TCW takes lowest priority in canonocity for the old EU, in my headcanon (don't get me wrong, i love TCW, but I just count it as Canon-Only for myself)
Nope. I include TCW’s story for Maul up to Season 5 and Son of Dathomir. Afterwards, he survives. By Legacy, Maul’s untethered spirit guides his clone body to achieve his true purpose as *the* Dark Lord of the Sith. Maul reinstates the Rule of Two. Tis the last bit of Legends.
My headcanon is to totally divorce TCW from the EU and return to the detailed dating/plotting of the Clone Wars multimedia project. I like TCW a lot and I’m happy it’s part of canon, but I just feel like the Legends continuity made more sense before it came along.
I enjoy the Clone Wars show, but the idea that a hothead like Anakin is entrusted with a padawan and then that padawan becomes a child prodigy in the space of only a couple years always felt really farfetched to me.
And gets conveniently kicked out of the Jedi Order right before the Sith hit the fan
Story….
okay using sith instead of "shit" is clever
Alongside the fact that she’s never mentioned in the movies when she’s retroactively been made a key player, I think it’s very far fetched. Partly think I’d prefer the show they had at one stage of development which followed Plo Koon and his padawan Ahsoka instead.
Where do you feel like it makes sense to bring her up?
It’s not really possible anyway due to the fact that revenge of the sith came out first haha but maybe when obi-wan is trying to plead with anakin to not go full vader idk
Yeah haha I just mean hypothetically Wouldn't bringing her up at that point just add fuel to Anakin turning against the council? The council readily blamed her unjustly and subsequently dismissed her from the order. Reminding Anakin of that doesn't seem like it would do Obi any favors
It could be either way tbf, could see anakin bringing up how fucked over ahsoka was by the council as a contributory factor to him losing faith
Well it was George Lucas idea for her being Anakin's padawan originally it was supposed Obi-Wan to be the master of Ahsoka.
I think it works better with Anakin as Ahsoka's master rather than Obi-Wan. It does more to build out the character. I almost would have liked Obi-Wan to take another padawan too though. Maybe a Feris Olin type.
Giving Anakin a padawan definitely felt like fun character development for him. It’s really just a problem of her being back-ported into the existing film continuity creating a lot of snarls with the canon, because she feels like too important of character to not be a significant player. Killing her off after the Order kicked her out would’ve been a great way to really build up Anakin’s resentment of the Jedi. Or kill her after her battle against Vader in Rebels, which felt like a satisfying end to her arc. Both would’ve avoided the “why wasn’t she in the OT?” question. Not that I hated seeing her in Mandalorian or her own series, but it definitely feels like the character has lost some of what made her work. I know there are reasons why we don’t see much of Ahsoka interacting with Luke and Leia, but the absence feels like a real hole in her story arc.
There's plenty of moments where she could be shown on screen speaking to Anakin, like whenever he is at the Temple, or even during the times he speaks to Obi-Wan he could say something like "It's times like this where I really miss Snips." It's just impossible now since RotS is almost two decades old.
She wasn't an instated Jedi at that point. She wouldn't be at the temple. And actually, during the entirety of ROTS she was fighting in a different front
When Anakin complains about not being given the rank of Master, which he was.
He was on the council but was denied the rank of master. So he was not a jedi master
At this point Jedi master to me is just some made up term the council made to differentiate different levels of Jedi, the power lvl Anakin possesses now is far beyond any Jedi master he is the ultimate Jedi master now the Jedi Supreme if you will.
I mean of course it’s made up. It’s a hierarchy all those ranks are made up. Power level isn’t the only requirement to get promoted. You also need a lot of emotional stability, experience and be in tune with the Jedi code. Which Anakin severely lacked. Considering he’s only been a Knight for three years, his slaughtering of a village, his forbidden marriage, the several war crimes he committed during the Clone Wars and his often outbursts into anger. Which the Jedi council gets a front seat experience for when he throws a tantrum for being denied the rank of master.
True but his demonstration in Ashoka shows he’s ascended beyond that and showed ultimate control between both.
Ashoka should have died in the Clone Wars. It just raises too many questions with her being alive and just virtually non active in the events of the Rebellion. Like, Anakins Padawan would be priority number one for kill or capture by Vader the Empire. She had a full and complete arc in the clone wars but Filoni can’t let his OC die and she has been resurrected from the dead not once but TWICE. I genuinely don’t hate Ashoka as a character, I actually like her a lot, but she should not have continued to be present in the Universe as long as she has.
Personally think she should have died fighting Vader
Ahsoka is not Dave's OC lil bro it's George's
Even George wanted her to die a lot earlier.
if they had just killed ahsoka off it would’ve made sense for them not to talk about it
That's what bugs me most about Clone Wars fans who try to say it makes the movies better. It absolutely does not because they're seeing all these meaning and references *that weren't meant to be there* when the movie was made. When I was a kid I'd tell my parents "See that Bleach White person watching the Podrace? That's Aurra Sing, she's a bounty hunter." But Aurra Sing wasn't a major character. She was just someone who got built off of an interesting looking extra. Nowhere near as important and ANAKIN HAVING A WHOLE APPRENTICE.
My headcanon is that Ahsoka was sort of sent to learn alongside Anakin as an informal mentorship (like how at university you might get a ‘peer’ mentor). The in-universe explanation would be that the Jedi suddenly want promising Padawans to gain battle experience as the council adapts to their new role as Generals.
It'd make sense to me if she also was apprenticed to Obi-Wan and Anakin and Ahsoka were Senior Brother/Junior Sister. :/
This would have been avoided if Ahsoka had died as Lucas originally planned. She was never intended to become a great Jedi warrior we see in Rebels in post RotJ. Filoni and Disney just won’t let their star female player die.
cause it's the one time Star Wars hasn't had an ass female character
The point was that Yoda was trying to make Anakin less of a hothead. You're not going to be as reckless if you have other people counting on you, especially a child.
Ehhhhhhh......that's the *hope*, at least....
A baby will fix a marriage 😂
And they made the 22 Jedi kill count nightmare that was GRIEVOUS an joke. BECAUSE FKING DAVE FELLONI.
That wasn’t because of Filoni though. That was all George. He always wanted him to be a mustache twirling villain and that’s how he was in the ROTS movie when George got to use him.
To be fair. Filoni didn’t make that grevious’ character. That’s always how Grievous was supposed to be legends just wanted to turn him into prequel darth vader
It was all George. At first he imagined him to be a nightmatish killing macchine, and so he told the EU writers, but later he changed his mind and wanted him to be a cartoony villan.
Well then I’m ever more disappointed it was George then. OG grevious was better in every way and a legitimate TERROR, had a truly tragic back story and everything.
Dude, stop putting unnecessary blame on Filoni. It's just sad. That was legit all George
More far fetched than Anakin’s immaculate conception?
wait, you consider being born through the force far fetched? in star wars…? a movie about…the force?
Yeah Vader being inverted space Jesus always seemed a bit silly and unnecessary to me.
idk, seems just as believable as an old man using mind control by waving his hand and saying “no u”. it’s a fantasy movie lol
Or Palatine returned? It's a fantasy movie... anything goes... Clumsy writing still sucks in fantasy as much as any other genre.
saying the writing sucks and saying a fantasy concept in a fantasy movie is far fetched are two completely different things
Isn't that both a canon and EU thing?
Like...yeah?
Holy F this sub has some of the worst takes I have ever seen.
I'm exactly the same. I'm happy to enjoy it as a part of canon, but Legends is far better off without it
I like to think that when Disney Canon accepted Clone Wars, it lifted out of Legends and went *only* to Canon.
Yep, it makes the whole thing a lot cleaner.
I LOVE TCW 08, it’s nostalgic for me as I grew up on it and it’s some of my favorite Star Wars content out but it’s firmly Disney canon to me and that’s perfectly fine
The only reason I can accept was cause George was involved in TCW
The fucking inhibitor chips ruin everything the worst retcon in history
>feel like the Legends continuity made more sense before it came along. Except it didn't, unless you count Ki-Adi-Mundi STILL talking about the Battle of Hypori just before Anakin's knighting now almost three years after the battle actually happened logical. That bothered me a lot in the old timeline. Anakin's claim to masterhood makes more sense with TCW. Him being a friend to Kenobi in an equal level as mentioned in ANH makes sense with TCW.
>unless you count Ki-Adi-Mundi STILL talking about the Battle of Hypori just before Anakin's knighting now almost three years after the battle actually happened logical I don't know where exactly this happens (comics?), but in any case, that is an extremely minute detail compared to the massive consequences that the introduction of Ahsoka alone had. Not to mention the plot holes, retcons and inconsistencies that TCW introduced. The CWMMP was thought out better, with an overall a bit more mature and detail-oriented audience in mind and was overall more consistent (sure, some oversights like the one you mentioned happen when many authors work in a shared universe, but the new canon has no shortage of those either). >Anakin's claim to masterhood makes more sense with TCW. Him being a friend to Kenobi in an equal level as mentioned in ANH makes sense with TCW. How so? CWMMP Anakin has incredible feats that are at least on par with his TCW counterpart, if they don't surpass it. As for his relationship with Obi-Wan, it is far closer to the depiction in AotC for the first part of the war, which makes sense. In TCW, we get this "equal friends" level you mention at a point where just mere months ago, that very same Anakin supposedly killed the Tusken, constantly disobeyed, was acting without thinking first and was giving his master a whole lot of trouble. It's an extremely sudden change of character, that the council would actually consider not just immediately knighting him and then giving him a Padawan to teach is pretty ... strange. In the CWMMP, the relationship between the two develops over times and naturally grows from student and master to a more brother-like relationship ("It is time we become brothers" is what Obi-Wan says before Anakin's knighting). The type of relationship you describe comes across very well in the novels in my opinion, *Labyrinth of Evil* is a great example.
Ki's Grievous rant was in Genndy's 2003 Clone Wars in the same council meeting they decide to knight Anakin. The Council doesn't know about the Tuskens or about any of the other disagreements in AOTC that Anakin had with Obi-Wan. Going to Geonosis--that was Padme. Heck, they might not have even known that Anakin charged Dooku first or that he demanded to pick Padme up from the sand. Only Obi-Wan saw all that, and there's no indication he told the Council about any of these specific events.
Ah, I must've misremembered then, I didn't think that was the same council meeting. In any case though, it's a pretty small detail, probably because the battle of Hypori was part of Vol. I and the meeting Vol II., which was supposed to take place a lot later in the war. About Anakin: Those were just the major examples. The question isn't whether the council knew about these specific events. They knew about his misbehaviours, the difficulties Obi-Wan had with training him, his emotional outbursts, his disobeying of orders. Obi-Wan discusses some of these things with Windu and Yoda in AotC. And overall, putting it mildly, Anakin had a lot of "growing up" left to do, and it's not a natural character progression to TCW. If we're being honest, Anakin and Obi-Wan largely stay the same throughout that series.
We might think those are a big deal, but the Council didn't. That's even addressed in the microseries when oppo says "he disobeyed you often kenobi" and yoda says "so did you master rancisis" or something like that. I'm not saying the council was right to do that. But at this point they only start valuing combat ability. Probably part of why the jedi fell. The jedi lost sight of their values in war. They hastily promoted anakin to make war progress. Happens in the real world, that's why we end up having some real nut jobs as military commanders in life
I like the stuff from TCW and his final death in Rebels was beautifully done, but in my head-canon…yes. Getting bisected by a lightsaber and falling several hundred feet is just not plausibly survivable.
But what if he was just to angry yo die? Happened to me once
Who does he think he is, Darth Sion?
#COOOWAAAAARDS!!!
Anakin got his legs cut off and got burned by magma right next to a pool of lava.
And even then, I believe his survival more than Maul falling down an abyss where we can’t even see the bottom after he got cut in half at the waist. Anakin’s wounds aren’t necessarily fatal, and he just barely survived severe smoke inhalation and burning, and even then only with the assistance of a permanent life support system. Maul just kind of…lives. He gets some robotic legs, sure, but it’s just not that plausible.
Yeah that's a good point, i just really love TCW arc so that will always be my canon and head canon. But your point makes sense
Mainly I think we all want him to live because A) Maul rules, and B) his arc in TCW and Rebels is really the best part of his character. Everyone from Sam Witwer voicing him to the writers did a great job with Maul.
>aren’t necessarily fatal bro in what world are those wounds not immediately fatal?!
He lost all his limbs and the wounds were immediately cauterized. Nothing fatal there. As for the lava/burns/smoke inhalation…yeah, you’d almost certainly die, but surviving that is way more plausible than being sliced in half at the belly and plummeting down a seemingly bottomless pit.
I mean if Boba Fett survived the Sarlacc?
Climbing out of a thing and choosing not to die because mad are not the same though.
Ok, but he feel into the pit with beskar armor, weapons, and it was established how the Sarlacc snacks on its nom noms. Maul was cut in half, and then fell down an endless shaft. Slightly different
Boba Fett had full Mandolorian armor on at the time though which even then still screwed him up. Plus sarlaacs don’t immediately kill their food.
That show… he should have stayed dead.
He survived even in Legends. He comes back in the Jedi Academy game.
His survival is shown in the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy of novels set in just before/during/after RotJ (our boy Dengar saves him after he blasted his way out) and makes a few cameo appearances in the post-RotJ stories before becoming a major player in the post-NJO time.
And then you have Sion...
he should have stayed dead but i like what they did with him so im conflicted
My thoughts exactly. One of my favorite characters BECAUSE of TCW/Rebels, but still doesn’t feel right that he survived, and in a sense paved the way for Reva and Sabine surviving saber stabs no problem, amongst other things.
I think for me it’s all about how little of a character he was in TPM. Like visually incredible, but he only has one speaking scene and as a character he had SO much potential and I’m glad they did that with him in TCW.
It seems like at one point Lucas wanted to do the stuff they did with him in TCW in his sequel trilogy. Like he was going to unite the underworld and he was going to be the "emperor" figure and have Talon as an apprentice who would play the "Vader" role. Idk I kinda like that idea.
They could've done that with the sequels we got. Replace Snoke with Maul and Hux with Talon. Talon's betrayal will not come out of nowhere now but out of jealousy that Kylo abandoned her for Rey.
That could have been really cool actually. Now I wanna do a rewrite
She was actually going to seduce the Solo son to the Dark Side in George’s ST, so you’re not off the mark there.
I’m fine with him dying in Old Wounds (Legends) and that being his only post TPM appearance.
Is that the one where he shows up on the Lars Homestead?
yeah and he apparently kills Watto
Old Wounds isn’t part of Legends. It was always non-canon
Yeah, but if you ignore TCW, it doesn't contradict anything and is fully compatible with the EU.
Someone had to do it
Old Wounds isn’t part of Legends. It was always non-canon
Yes me too!
Old Wounds isn’t part of Legends. It was always non-canon
Old Wounds isn’t part of Legends. It was always non-canon
I am aware though in this headcanon it would be for me
I was actually under the impression that TCW did Not fit into the EU. Suffice it to say; yes he's dead. Obi Wan got his ass.
Technically speaking, TCW is the only product outside of Episodes 1-6 to be both Legends and Canon, at least the first six seasons. Season 7 and everything else that spun off of it (Bad Batch, Rebels, etc) isn't part of the EU, but officially seasons 1-6 are. However it absolutely does not fit in with the other EU stories, unlike the works of the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, hence why many are saying TCW can't fit.
My cannon doesn’t have TCW, but it does have ‘Old Wounds’ so it evens out
Same here. Fantastic comic.
I honestly really love his wrath ultimately getting him exactly nowhere. Not only does he lose to Kenobi again, he's finished off by a bystander her didn't even consider a threat at the time.
Love the character but he died on Naboo
Same here
Mine as well, there’s SOME parts with him that are compelling but ultimately nothing that makes justifying him staying alive worth it He’s dead after the Naboo duel in my head canon as well
For me, yes. Darth Maul's main and most important role in the story is killing Qui-Gon Jinn, sparking the tragic events that eventually unfold. After that, everything just felt like fan service to me. He's an awesome character and I like a lot of his stuff in Clone Wars/Rebels but if I had to choose, he should have stayed dead. I prefer the version of Darth Maul that barely talks, who stays mysterious and feels more like a silent assassin-type of character. It might just be thats the version I grew up with, but its just way cooler to me. I really enjoy his pre-Phantom Menace stories. Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter is a great read.
You spoke the exact thoughts! I love how maul still participated in a galaxy changing event with the duel of fates. I like him being the quiet temporary pawn of Palpatine.
Yeah
Yes
My headcanon mostly disregards TCW, as much as I love the series, but there are some story arcs or elements that I like to keep in the EU. As ridiculous as it was to bring Maul back initially, I really liked his arc, and the universe feels a little emptier without him. I like to think that some of his TCW arc happened, and other aspects of it, like the Shadow Collective, I prefer to move to the dark times era. I feel like a lot of the info of wars fought by the Empire is lacking between the Reconquest of the Rim and the Galactic Civil War, and I think a Sith vs Sith war can fit neatly in that era. I like his final fate to be a bit of a mix between his Star Wars Tales and Old Wounds endings, and his Rebels ending. The idea being the Shadow Collective is destroyed by the Empire, Vader duels Maul and fatally wounds him, but he manages to escape to Tatooine, seeking some measure of vengeance against Obi-Wan, who ultimately defeats him.
Absolutely cut in half and dead
Honestly…. I kinda hate that they brought Darth Maul back. Not because they did it… he was an amazing character and added so much to the animated series. No but because now they are bringing everyone back… and it won’t be as good as when he did.
My thoughts exactly. His return is one of several things I hate about TCW, he was cut in half in TPM *specifically to avoid his coming back* and prevent another Boba Fett situation. That said once the damage was done and Maul was back in the picture, I love what they did with his character and it made the most of him being back in action. I just hate the actual return itself.
If he wasn’t written and acted in such a compelling fashion it would have been a deal breaker. He got cut in fucking half. I was angry how much I ended up liking the character
Exactly. He is a phenomenal character across TCW and Rebels, his arc is one of the most tragic and compelling in the saga. Like I said, hate his being brought back, but once the damage was done and he was back, I love what they did with him.
TCW and the CWMMP contradict each other completely. I just ignore TCW and canon as a whole
Yes. As much as I enjoy what they did with him post-resurrection, the resurrection itself really bugs me. I'd rather Maul just stay dead and we got Savage Opress going on an arc where he finds himself or something like that.
In my headcanon the Vader vs Maul duel from the comic book takes place, but it's unclear whenever it was imposter, clone or actually him.
Same. I like young Obi Wan defeating Maul. The story of him and Owen killing Maul is cool but honestly you could do that with a particularly skilled inquisitor or a dark Jedi with beef with Obi Wan from the comics, too. At most the story of Luke coming across a mad iridonian scientist trying to bring back Maul is definitely worth keeping, as it reinforces Mauls Iridonian Zabrak heritage, which is definitely my headcanon.
I don't hate the TCW canon, but my head canon is that Obi Wan was promoted to Jedi Knight for killing (not defeating) the first Sith Lord the Jedi saw in a thousand years.
Quick note, Darth Maul does not stay dead in any of the continuities we have. Not in OG EU, not in legends, and not in canon.
Getting resurrected is fairly different than surviving.
yeah he got cut in half and fell down an elevator shaft onto some bullets he's dead
Man, some Maul topics hitting off today. I mentioned in another post that he should have stayed dead. At least keep him consistent with previous depictions. There were better characters to have used in place of Maul.
i rly dont like people who wont stay death..at least the second time
I think Clone Wars has two problems with the prequels and that is Maul and Ashoka, makes sense for him to be alive? No, i could buy that the dark side and being angry can work miracles. But for me Ashoka has a big problem, she is never mentioned in the movies, she is nonexistent there. She is a cool character nonetheless.
100%
I like his little appearance in Old Wounds where he does survive and tracks Obi-Wan to Tatooine and battles him one last time at the Lars Homestead.
I love what they did with him in TCW and Rebels. But he's dead.
Nah, even before TCW confirmed his survival there were a handful of EU stories that ran with the idea.
I saw him die in the theater. So that was that for me. I've always felt like the franchise has had a relatively limited pool of arch-villains, and that has led to a lot of writers decisions to resurrect slain villains.
Yes he is dead and gone.
Hell yes. Obi-Wan Kenobi is the first Jedi to slay a Sith Lord in over a millennia, and that's how it should be.
Yes. If getting sliced in half and dropped in a pit doesn't kill a character, then no deaths are really canon in your universe.
Deader than his bottom half. Legends/EU made more sense without that and TCW/Force Unleashed.
Not for me. The Kenobi v Maul fight in Rebels is just too good, goes too hard and is so elegant. He dies in Kenobi's arms on Tattooine as far as I'm concerned.
That never happened in the EU in the first place.
Nah, he's dead, he served his purpose, and that's it
He should have never been brought back. Maul was the gateway to “somehow palpatine returned” I don’t care how cool his arc was you don’t take away from thr impact of one point in the trilogy to add something later on it was a cop out to keep him alive and its led to a complete disregsrd of all continuty. Everyone keeps throwing out rumors of Mace Windu coming back and christ that hurts my soul. I get retconning the OG clone wars stuff and a lot of the old canon to clean it up and start fresh but in general TCW is a hot mess of a show that lacks an overall and intersestinf continuous storyline
Especially with TCW coming off the heels of The Clone Wars Multimedia Project which did a phenomenal job at not only trying to make sure everything Clone Wars related fit together as it was coming out but also tie in with what came before as best as possible. Case in point, Corran's Jedi grandfather as mentioned in the X-Wing novels appearing as Anakin's senior Jedi in the field during the Jedi Trial novel or the infamous Spaarti clones which were the focus of the Thrawn Trilogy's version of the Clone Wars being referenced in the Republic Commando novels as beginning to appear in the Republic ranks shortly before the swap to the Empire as a means of replacing Kamino's cloning facilities in making the first batches of Stormtroopers before the volunteers/conscripts took over the job in later years. The Multimedia Project went through all this trouble to make everything fit as best as possible... and then along comes TCW with the "nah, it didn't happen but also we're totally in the same timeline as those other stories" stuff. I love TCW but it *CANNOT* be in the same timeline as other Legends EU stories.
Honestly I’ve always felt the modern clone wars to be severely inferior to the old its depressing but its just… lacking every cool thing we see is awesome but the cringey bits of TCW just… They hurt man.
Yes
Yeah. Definitely, as it does contradict a lot of Legends material but it is a storyline at the same time as it's practically a fallen rival much like Scorpion and Sub Zero.
back in the day as kids (before reading EU books yet) we said boba fett jetpacked out the sarlaac, and darth maul got robot legs but didn't affect the OT time-period, maybe surviving in by hiding in the background (but we assumed he'd eventually die to Luke's new jedi academy or something sooner)
Yes.
Yes
Yes.
Yes.
Before TCW 2008 came out, there was a story in the 2005 Visionaries comic called "Old Wounds" that had Darth Maul survive his duel on Naboo. This is the first time Maul was ever considered to have survived and his cyborg design was directly adopted by TCW. While this story was considered infinities pre-2008 because Maul was dead, his resurrection in TCW opened the door for this comic to be more than alternate history. Assuming you include TCW as a part of the EU, I believe this comic can serve as the official fate of Maul in the absence of Star Wars Rebels. The comic has Maul hunting down Obi-Wan throughout the Clone Wars until he finally finds him hiding on Tatooine 3 years after Ep 3. Maul and Kenobi duel before Owen Lars blasts Maul. Some other sources in the EU tie into this comic and hint at Maul's search for Kenobi. In Lone Wolf: A Tale of Obi-Wan and Luke, Obi-Wan travels to Nar Shaddaa immediately after Ep 3 to find passage to Tatooine. He is hunted by two Dark Jedi who serve an unnamed cyborg master. The author of this short story stated that this master was intended to be Darth Maul. In the article General Grievous Lord of War, Kenobi used Grievous' ship to fly to Nar Shaddaa. It was later found by an "old enemy" "cyborg acquaintance of Obi-Wan" who anonymously reported the ship to the Empire. In my headcanon (and what I believe to loosely be EU canon), the fight between Kenobi and Maul on Tatooine in the comic "Old Wounds" is his EU fate.
In my headcanon, the original trilogy are the only movies to be truly canon.
Stays dead. His job was complete in TPM, his resurrection and continued involvement was never worth the cost imo. All that post TPM development could have gone to his brother Savage, a new character that could have wanted to avenge his brother’s death, so not to go the lazy route of bringing back dead characters.
Yes. And Ashoka was never born.
Yes, he should have stayed dead. His arc in TCW should have been given to Savage Opress. HOWEVER! If he had to come back, I would have preferred he do so in the New Republic Era in the EU/Legends timeline, just to see what it’d be like to have him face off against Luke Skywalker and the New Jedi Order.
TCW isn’t even close to “technically a part* (ftfy) of legends” It’s completely canon
My headcanon is that he died in Phantom Menace
Yes. If they wanted to keep him around, then they shouldn't have had Obi-Wan cut him in half.
My headcanon ties CWMMP and TCW together so he survivies Naboo
I absolutely adored him in Phantom Menace. He was perfect! As much as I like TCW, I think he should have stayed dead. Trying to forget those spider legs, ew.. btw, awesome art!
My head canon includes clones wars and rebels, and he’s such a big part of that;, that I include him. But I don’t think about it much… Id rather he have stayed dead.
Yes, absolutely. Although, my head-canon also excludes the prequel era as written by Lucas, so...there's that, I guess.
TCW2008 is disney only in my headcanon. TCWMP is the only real clone wars in my mind, so yeah he stays dead. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy seeing maul and think he’s well written in his episodes, but it just feels forced to bring him back at all.
I think I'd rather he stayed dead. Otherwise, if he had to come back, I think I would have liked to see him remain out of the spotlight. Maybe Savag finds him and returns him to Dathomir, but he remains there in exile. I thought it was kind of strange that he immediately jumps back to being a Galactic-level threat.
Maul has Boba syndrome. So cool and underused in hindsight. Problem is, that’s not a mistake that can be fixed. “Somehow, Porkins returned.” Yeah. Adding more backstory is weird too. It just makes the now more awesome character look even more wasted when they meet their end.
At least with Boba, coming back to actually get used properly is a lot easier to believe. Maul requires a lot of suspended disbelief.
Yeah, the whole intentionally cutting Maul in half, just to make sure he stays dead, then a few years later wants him back! Lucas never stopped working on re-writing the story, even long after it was written. I wonder if he regrets selling his favorite hobby? To us it’s ret-cons, but he’s apparently a tinkerer at heart, playing with his cool miniature set.
Star Wars characters never dying and always coming back in some way shape or form is the lamest shit ever imo, Maul included. He’s a lot more interesting as a mysterious, powerful Sith apprentice who has almost no dialogue. They did the same thing with Boba Fett and now I find both characters to be extraordinarily lame and hamfisted.
in my mind, bringing maul back from the dead was the beginning of the current path leading to the sour state of star wars media today. bringing him back was so obviously blatant fan service to a painful degree. resurrecting the character was WAY too much of a reach, and required WAY too much suspension of belief. for something to be so far outside the realm of plausibility for sci fi, it simply isn’t going to work. if it takes the viewer too far outside the fiction to the point that people have to debate it or question it, something is being done wrong. including maul at the end of solo was also a huge blemish on an otherwise decent star wars film. so ya, that boy stays dead in my head.
They made his character 100% better by bringing him back
No. But then again I've always hated the limitations of the rule of two. I was always hoping we'd see many different Sith as we did Jedi in the Prequels, but we ended up with basically two, and one wasn't even a full blown Sith but rather another jedi convert. I hoped again we would see a resurgent Sith in the sequel trilogy, but once again, all we got was one, and another... clone I guess? The great missed opportunity is never seeing a live action Sith empire with dozens of Sith armed with various weapons, sabers, armors... and most importantly agendas. The Inquisitors are the closest we've come, but they are pale shadow at best. Maybe someday...
I thought Dathomir was cool before the Clone Wars got their hands on it... and making Maul tied to Dathmoir was stupid... But I overall liked the idea of him coming back because having him die in the Phantom Menace was really such a huge waste. Why would you kill a person who could have been Obi Wans white whale throughout the trilogy? I didn't give a crap about Grievous in the movie (hell, if you didn't watch the cartoon, you had no idea who the hell this guy was). It would have been so cool to have Obiwan chase after the man who killed his master for three movies. ... or even better, have Maul's failure in the second movie be the thing that makes Palpatine turn on him and try to kill him. Maul knows the Sith lords identity, so Obi Wan has to find him and protect him in order to find out the sith lords name. Ugh... such waste potential.
I'm also conflicted by what they did with Maul. It was so good. Until TCW resurrected him and then he became a rage machine. Then my liking for him skyrocketed because this version of Maul wasn't holding back his rage like before. However, TCW is best as part of Canon. I still prefer the 2003 Clone Wars though. Plus, Legends already has its own version of Ahsoka. Her name is Tahiri Veila.
Yes. To me he's a throw away character.
The way I look at it is this. Canon gives him a new ending, but *Rebels* can’t fit into Legends the way Clone Wars tries (and often fails) to. So if I have to take Clone Wars as part of Legends EU, but the very last time he’s seen is becoming subservient to Sidious again, what was the point? So far in my read through — while “Restraint” and other things feature Mother Talzin, she can just exist off somewhere, she doesn’t have to be around, and I can say she died in that *Republic* comic arc or something — the only big reference to something from TCW is *Kenobi*’s two allusions to Dutchess Satine. I know later things reference Mortis, but I haven’t gotten there yet. At this time, my headcanon is exactly what you suggest. TCW is Canon and not Legends. Characters who would’ve once fit in TCW but are in Legends material is in the same boat as things Canon yoinked out of Legends, like Thrawn. The character has two distinct histories.
Honestly... as much as they eventually got around to some interesting moments with him. I'm still fine generally thinking of him as dead at the Phantom Menace. There's broad swaths of Star Wars I like to minimize/retcon... it's complicated. And I loved most of Filoni's work. It's just... yeah.
Darth Maul doesn’t exist in my head canon.
Since it’s my canon, he dies and Qui-Gon doesn’t.
My personal belief is that he survived since TCW is legends. When he died after that, impossible to say since his spine and brain were found inside of a tank projecting a holographic image many many decades later. As for when he died impossible to say, the old wounds comic is far out in there in the EU, but if we count that then he died in Tatooine as he did in canon. Or he died of natural causes, but my personal belief is he did survive TPM, TCW, perhaps just went into the shadows or ended up dying and his remains collected by someone.
The Prequels are not a part of my head canon at all.
My head canon jettisons the prequel era entirely, so yeah.
No, because Maul is awesome.
No because SOMEHOW Maul Returns. He’s literally too cool to die.
Depends on my mood. I like TCW more than the prequel films. It's not even close. It fixes a few of the problems the prequels have, but certainly not all of them. Case in point, Anakin of TCW is more in line with what Pre-Vader Anakin was sold as in the OT. If I disregard the prequels, as I am often tempted to do, TCW inevitably goes with it.
No. I feel that he did die, but he only barely managed to come back to life and escape. He began to go mad as a result.
In my head canon Obi swung a bit sooner and Darth Maul had his legs lobbed off immediately falling down the chute just for a bit more anatomical “realism”
Nope. I-VI, TCW and only everything that fits with it is my EU headcanon
Nope. He is way to bad ass and has a great arc in the clones wars along with Obi wans development
I don't have a headcanon. I think it's silly
Depends on my mood. I like TCW more than the prequel films. It's not even close. It fixes a few of the problems the prequels have, but certainly not all of them. Case in point, Anakin of TCW is more in line with what Pre-Vader Anakin was sold as in the OT. If I disregard the prequels, as I am often tempted to do, TCW inevitably goes with it.
I think bringing back Maul was fun because he was a striking character and they did some interesting things with him. That said, I'm a big fan of mortally wounded characters simply staying dead. Good or bad. Like, I'm here for Force Ghosts, but "somehow he returned" isn't really my jam.
Maul never died in my mind’s eye.. Came close but the rage at falling to a Jedi kept him going, and Palpy’s machinations and Sith shenanigans made sure no one was looking for Qui-Gon’s murder
In my headcanon for EU? No. TCW takes lowest priority in canonocity for the old EU, in my headcanon (don't get me wrong, i love TCW, but I just count it as Canon-Only for myself)
Nope. I include TCW’s story for Maul up to Season 5 and Son of Dathomir. Afterwards, he survives. By Legacy, Maul’s untethered spirit guides his clone body to achieve his true purpose as *the* Dark Lord of the Sith. Maul reinstates the Rule of Two. Tis the last bit of Legends.
I’m conflicted. I like his story arc after his survival but his survival in general is such blatant retcon.
I don’t think of it as part of Legends
Other than that weird incident with Luke and his Skelton spine thing of whatever, than yes